They watch the bigger streamers. The ones that pull in the most players and viewers of their games. I wouldn’t doubt at least one or two of them is watching and taking notes. Maybe they have guys now who watch these videos, compile notes, and say, “this is what this streamer wants, is it viable?”
I think they need to make like in classic wow where in the beginning you happy for every single weapon drop like green ones !! In diablo II it was cool itemisation too.
I am really hoping they take notes on D2 gear, it has the best gear in any ARPG hands down. %chance to cast X spell builds are complete bonkers and some of my favorite builds to make.
they are gonna see it the question is whether they do something about it or not agree fully with the feedback too bad so few ppl remember the good ol diablo 2
@Dyanosis Come on, he wanted to explain it as clearly as possible, so that there's no way he could be misunderstood. Devs probably would like to listen to 40 minutes of specified feedback, and even if not, they can fast forward and make a quick list of Llama's preferences
I totally agree with you - we need an interesting itemsystem again: a big variety of (crazy) random stats like in d2 - also things like resistances, lifeleech, magic find, physical/fire/cold/poison dmg and so on.. D3 was way to simple. Also blue items were totally useless there. Not even worth picking them up after 45 minutes ingame, because every yellow item you found from that point on will be better anyway. I also think that there should be some blue items, which could better than anything else you have at that specific moment - no matter which stage of the game, of course with a much lower chance, but it could be. And yes, unidentified is so much more exciting, like double gambling - one time when it drops, the other time, when you identify it. I also agree that we need charms, more complex skilltrees, other inventory layout and in my opinion also some kind of restrictions, when it comes to skilltree.. I don't want to have all skills available on my Charakte, even if i am level 100. A decission on lvl 5 on which direction i go, should be also have consequences on level 100, no matter what. If i don't like that, i have to restart.
@@sppd100 There should be actual stat and skill builds separate from each other but symbiotic. There needs to be variety but also a feeling of uniqueness with each individual player. When every character basically looks and plays the same it gets boring AF way too fast. It's rare that any game does this, let alone well.
Lama, this is actually the best recap/impressions I've seen. As always, you're the authority on all things diablo PS you should play Diablo 1 with the Belzebub (Diablo HD mod)
y its great i play it just now :D . shit but i was playing mage like a year ago in hell+ is so hard u need to use so much spells bcoz of immunities so now i m using rogue and exept of fuckers witch can blink to u its so ez
I said this on Reddit too but please, Blizzard, don't make every skill so readily accessible. The best and most fun part of Diablo 2, for me, was the different builds you could make with every character: I could play a Necromancer three times and do something different each time. It greatly increased the replay-ability, and I hated that you could just swap between every skill like D3 like it was nothing; there was always a "push to win" button. Please bring back skill trees and paths and stick to them, or at least keep unlocking everything to a second run with that character on a higher difficulty.
Agree 100%, I had fire sorc, lightning sorc, orb sorc plus tempest sorc, blizzard sorc... in d3 you click and you're done... Maybe have a single respec quest reward if you screw something up and that's it, but only maybe!
I think respeccing shoulf be available at all times, but it should take a lot to do it. Replayability just based on being locked out and having to do the same things over and over is not fun, the end product is, but levelling a new character just to fine tune a build just is not.
@@knavenformed9436 it means you haveto stick to your choices and think about your actions when it comes to how you mold your charecter. Also if you can respect you're charecter easily what makes you're charecter different from anyone else's when they can copies your biuld with the click of a button? Makes every barb the same previded there the same lvl. There's a reason people still play d2 and there is a reason why no-one still plays d3.
Well, the only two options we've seen so far are: 1. cooldowns - reqires no skill but limits everyone 2. mana potions - requires good timing, but rewards players with faster and smoother gameplay
Cooldowns really depend. There have to be advantages and disadvantages to both: Using the skill on cooldown or holding the skill for later use. Otherwise the cooldown is unnecessary. A good example is teleport. Giving it a (long enough) cooldown forces you to make a decision between using it to move quicker, risking not having a getaway tool when you need it, and holding it for an emergency, sacrificing speed. The cooldown adds decision making (as long as it's long enough) in this scenario. Another good example are CCs. Adding a cooldown to them forces you to choose between using them offensively (forcing the monsters to stay in the area of your damaging skills, or perhaps the CC skill deals damage itself), or defensively (stopping the monsters from getting to you/chasing you). The cooldown needs to be long enough so the decision actually matters, otherwise you end up with button mashing as is the case in D3.
@@insentia8424 Ok you're right. I just think the FCR system offers more choices over the cooldown system. Also it would be difficult to incorporate the cooldown system if you can switch skills at any moment as in D2, which is a feature most people prefer.
Yes yes yes yes yes. Absolutely agree with everything you said. Please, MrLlama, be our standard bearer. I want D4 to be great, and every issue you brought up is something fixable before release. We need to put pressure on Blizzard to make these changes, especially regarding itemisation and inventory (I need my armour to take up six slots and be big and cool and have rad art!). Other cool things to add/change: - Font. I know it's small, but D2's font fit the game. D3/D4's doesn't, currently. I don't know what it is - Arial? Times New Roman? No. Give us D2's font! - Damage numbers: No, please. It's so ugly and there's no need for it - Personal opinion and most people will disagree: character customisation is a big no from me. I think I said it somewhere else, but I want to feel like I'm playing _The_ Barbarian, not just _a_ barbarian. - TP/ID scrolls - not sure why, but having items drop identified just feels...gross. And having a cast time on town portal does too (edit: made this comment before the end of the video and glad you agree!!) - Oh yeah, just remembered: they're called UNIQUES, Blizzard, not LEGENDARIES. Why did they change this??? - There was more, I'll edit this when I remember I'm very excited for D4, but I just cannot fathom how they went for a more D3 approach than a D2/PoE approach for items/inventory. Of course it's early days and can change, but if we don't speak up now, it's going to stay that way and like you said, the game will be a total bust.
Yes to all these things! Item art is really important. I hope this is not the final art please. They are using a blue background on every item, what is that? Its disgusting. I want to look at the item and see a really cool grounded weapon helmet whatever. It needs to be less cartoonish and more raw medieval and OF COURSE take slots depending on the size.
Its worth noting that in the original D3 gameplay trailer from 2010 they also did not have inventory tetris, but it came later. I suspect during the very early stages of game development its not exactly something that matters much so they just use a very basic inventory.
EVERYONE UPVOTE THIS VIDEO MrLama hits every single point in this video. I'm so happy that someone has finally articulated exactly whats wrong with the direction of the Diablo series since D3. The game is still being catered to casual players who don't want to have to think or get good at the game. (No hit recovery, skill cooldowns, easy content) are just some of the many ways that diablo turned into a brainless spam of mob grinding. We NEED to be punished by our decisions. We NEED to be challenged by difficult content.
I agree blizzard will never bring a quality game that requires thinking.I stopped getting hyped from blizzard games years now they just can't do it. They are good at cinematics though. The only thing they can do right!
@@realitycheck908 the worst is POE was being helped by blizzard... but to think bli$$tard will improve nope never, they are attracted by money, most majority of gamer are casual dead brain, why do a complexe when most gamer are shit at game, lets do a brainless game. moron capitalist
Im a mad d1 and d2 fan and hated d3 for losing its diablo feel, no hit recovery needs to be introduced hopefully with no smight skill to destroy melee pvp but the cooldown was probably one of the only good things d3 introduced think about it. It crates more diversity bye not being able to just spam the best skill none stop but rather have faster less inpactful skills to use in between. Especially if the game is going to have teleport! We don't want another end game dragon ball z like d2 has that's drifting away from the diablo feel aswell it spoiled pvp and took the game to a pretty silly place.
MrLlamaSC true just love all the points you made in this video and never thought of the reasons I played d2 for so many years compared to other games and I feel the points you brought up are probably why I did play for 12 years
I agree with more d2 and less d3, but their feedback is important to see "what works in d3" and use it. I personally like the dark, but it could use more vibrant colors sometimes, I liked d3 desert and d2 desert, they were not very dark. D3 had that stupid fog everywhere and I hate it so much... it was also tinted green in the cathedral, it looked like shit.
That wont happen because D3 was a commercial success. Mark my words right here , right now. Diablo 4 will be more of a diablo 3.5 than Diablo 2. Having darker atmosphere, runes and trading/pvp doesnt make Diablo 4 a Diablo 2 game ... You need far more than that.
I understand the point going concerning the fact that is was a very early version of the game, and you are totally right to underline this statement. However, since Blizzard decided to show this demo, it is totally legitimate to criticize everything we saw, but not more.
Sure I think you can criticize the demo and put up feedback on things like "we want really interesting talent trees!" I just think it's a little silly when people assume talent trees are in their final form when they even stated they just included it to show it exists. So just gotta compile it all and discuss from there! Either way, nothing is final
we need stats and we need stats to be required in order to use weapons and armor. this gave the game an amazing feeling of earning and gave items dimension. it was interesting. quests need to be linked to character building. we want REASONS to do side quests and main quests other than xp and gold. rewards like d2: perm health increase, stat points, skill points, item socket/customization, personalization, shop prices etc etc! flesh out the game.
The whole system still makes the players look forward to acquire mythic items and don't really appreciate a random magic or rare item that has interesting affix. It really the dead end one way to go of the design "you will start with crap white or magic items and you must get the mythic or certain unique items to do well in end game" that's boring.
They feel like WoW items. Boring bland crap, Even a major upgrade in wow never created Any emotional impact on me. The core problem is the simplified character stats.
If that's your main concern then your problem isn't with the game mate; your problem is with the genre in a whole. The idea of killing bad guys for better items is integral in any rpg/ mmorpg game, ever. We accept that most loot is trash (at least relative to "end-game gear") - that's why it's fun when you get something good. It's fun when you get something that *might* be good. The whole point of playing these games is for that quick second when you find a sick piece of gear
@@Y0utub3me thank you for your opinion, you are not wrong, but what you are saying is not even close to what I'm saying here. I'm not having any problems with the genre.
If they did some limit of 1, maybe to mythic to wear, that would force you to make other items be supportive of that mythic. Have the mythics being random rolls will maybe even force you to rebuild and play around with your skills, as you really want to implement that mythic into your build. Its like finally getting that high rune to finish that OP runeword. Makes you rebuild most of your char. Im am onboard with this. BUT, having like 7 mythics pieces on. NAAAA!
@@danielfarre6994 they just need to listen to these D2 veteran players if they really wanna make it happens, and they will not need to put any limits to the game. If they don't play it long enough, they won't see the problems.
Want to see the inventory to be like d2, I like that different item took different amount of space. It makes you choose more what items to keep and drop
I hated the f***ing inventory in Diablo and Diablo 2 items took up huge amount of space for half the Shit always going back to town all the F***ing time that sucked and if you thank that I'm just a kid that did not play the other two Diablo game that much cuz you thought I was younger I am almost 37
@@18Kasumi You speak like a 15 year-old and the fact that you need to precise that you're 37 without anyone asking you... Let's just say that you don't have alot of credibility and using fuck and shit every 2 words isn't going to add any value to your opinion.
I am very excited for D4, I just hope we get full trading. This is one the most important features and allows for longevity in the community. A lot of the replay is hunting loot and not just for your char.
Fun note, David Brevik was the original person to suggest a trading system that introduces "bind on trade" and having SOME BoP items. So I am open to the idea, but only if BoP is severely limited for special cases like maybe progression.
I’m open to having binding on some things but I think it needs to be restricted to a few things (and not just because Brevik was open to it). Like in D2 the unique charms were end game elite things that could have been bind on ID or trade. I like the idea of having a few elite things bind to a char or account. I like knowing that if I beat the Uber’s I’m guaranteed to get a torch, and I have a clear path to get that item. I don’t necessarily need to trade for it because it’s about journey building up to the Uber event.
I guess probably almost everything in the demo could easily be changed or scrapped or added in future development, inventory slots, item tiers, skill, talent, health mana gauge, etc. The only thing that is set, IMHO, is the game engine and just judging by this aspect, D4 had a promising base, and whether it will be good or bad is just the ideas building on the game engine. Tons of stupid ideas and you get a bad game, vice versa. I guess that's why llamas around the world wanted a D2 Remastered, because that game was just full of great ideas. And the boulder pushing monster off the cliff was just awesome.
The giant map is also most likely set, which means we will be getting 0 map randomization. At most only the dungeons would be "randomized" by getting the game choose from 1 of 3 pre-ser maps.
@@bigsmall246 What they mentionned about the map, was that the overworld map would be set, but both exterior and interior dungeons and some other instances would be randomized. And they seemed to be tending closer to D2 randomized in the way they were talking about dungeons, then D3 handful of seeds. Was all around pretty encouraging. Even if it's still pretty early days to know for sure what it'll look like in the end! Cheers.
@@MarioWizzz would hope the devs dont listen to what he says about cooldowns because they are needed for PVP, and they have said they created d4 with pvp in mind
@@superduperjew tell that to the makers of league of legends and dota 2. in league of legends theres a game mode where all of the champions cooldowns are reduced by 80% making some of the longest base ability cooldowns about 3-5 seconds. the PVP in this game mode is insanely unbalanced, the most ridiculous champions are so OP that many people cannot find it fun when someone is 'try-harding' one of those champs. clearly you have no concept of counter play based on cooldowns, when llama explained the importance of cooldowns in pvp in this very video
@@BitBam why not have cooldowns during PVP and no cooldowns during PVE? Since PVP is going to be "consensual". Then again such a system would be too much effort for the devs to balance, and hence we will never get it.
I also loved the fact that you could find cool endgame items as soon as you got into hell or even nightmare difficulty in D2 And I liked that you could find awesome lower level items in hell that you could use when leveling a new char
Absolutely. That is one of the points I am most concerned about. Diablo 3 was so bad in that regard. Basically everything under max. Level was useless later on. I loved to find a Stone of Jordan relatively early on in D2. Also the 2nd best Option for a Slot was of immense importance because the best in Slot item did hardly ever drop. Harlequin Crest aka Shako is a good example. A great, great Endgame Item. Not the best yoi could have for most builds, but the most realistic one of the good items to get. Diablo 3 didnt have that. You were always looking for the BiS item - and you found it. Every single day. It just wasnt good enough most of the time and you waited for it to drop again.....In Diablo 2 you were so hapoy when you found a herald of Zakarum or a Vampire Gaze...because those things were damn good and if you wanted something better, you knew this would be incredibly tough to get. Which was awesome. I loved this aspect and the aspect that legendaries didnt scale. When I found a good Unique Item in Diablo 2, I knew that it was pretty good, no matter how low the roll was. In Diablo 3 i could find a great Legendary with level 69....which meant its crap....if you know what I mean
@@markmauk8231 I know exactly what you mean! I also think one of the reasons you got so excited for second or third best items, except for their rarity, was because you didn't have grifts with infinitely scaling difficulty so they still allowed you to clear all content or most of the content - just not as fast/ risk free as you would with better gear. In diablo 3 an upgrade always meant you could progress to a higher grift level (provided it's a big enough upgrade obviously).
This is one of the most important things regarding the itemization system. If its full with cool ideas like this - then it can turn out to be something that adds so much to a game. On the other hand, if there isnt cool ideas like this in an itemization system, then the game will be exciting for a month or two, then it will be absolutely non-interesting. I still cant understand how the developers cant piece the puzzle together - we have seen the itemization/the itemaffixes from Diablo, Diablo II and Diablo III. There are so many indicators that suggests that both Diablo and Diablo II has survived the test of time - while there are so many indicators that suggests that Diablo III hasnt. Just look at how much that has been added to the original Diablo III and also look at how it performs and how it has performed. Diablo II didnt have tons and tons of endgame systems, expansions, other customizations options added to it and it still is a great game. Why? Well, one thing is for sure, the itemization system.
Basically they need to look at D2 item system. Maybe add some new touches. These things where both like you said dumbed down and broken in D3. Also trading, just make it free trading all over like D2. A few event based items character bound like D2.
I agree. Open trading. Let players dictate economy, generate actual wealth and prestige amongst other players. If you can’t trade your godlies, you’re just compartmentalizing the gaming experience when it needs to be open
@@malawigw No, they aren't at all just because you don't use them on a endgame build doesn't mean it's crap, swear to god gamers get dumber every year.
I agree with pretty much everything you said about itemisation. I like 'hmm i think this item will be better for this build than that one' much more than 'you need this item for that build'. Also forced limitations like only 1 SoJ. Those restrictions feel ported from WoW and are very annoying. And trade needs to be open... If you get a cool item that you really want to use on a different char, or to sell, you need to be able to do it.
I like how you mention "you need this item for that build" being inferior to player choice for a build and the SoJ which could possibly be BiS for every class which gives no choice for customizing a build when it comes to rings. What I'm getting at is, if the devs make there own items for the game (legs/mythics/runewords) that you can't add stats to (customize), then there will always be BiS items to use unless those dev made items aren't viable in endgame. What would be cool is dev-made legs/mythics that you could still customize additional affixes. Same thing can be said about runewords in D2. The runewords that were BiS in D2 have the same cookie cutter build feeling as D3 legendaries.
@@sppd100 well something I didnt appreciate until later was sometimes id prefer yellow rings with fcr and res over 2x SoJ. I agree it sucks if it's absolutely BiS because it locks you into something, rather than letting you choose.
Llama, You are the only D2 player with a voice. Please, be the reason Diablo is saved. Blizzard needs to listen to EVERYTHING you are saying or we will never see a good Diablo game again. Keep up the great work.
Hey Llama! Just wanted to say thanks for making these videos. It's nice to have a personable guy fighting for the D2 community! Thank you and keep it up!
Blizzard listen to this guy!!! If you want Diablo 4 to be the best game listen, take notes. I have been playing Diablo since D1 came out. This is exactly what D4 needs more of, what made D1/D2 amazing, and what D3 lacked. Please this makes 100% sense. This is not the end all but you need to slow the game down, make it that we have the decisions, make the items exciting and mysterious so we can savior it and not just speed run through all of it. Blizzard now is your chance, I have faith in you.. **Edit** Also remember Blizzard.. The people you are making the game for is not casual gamers.... We your fans for over 20 years want the game to be full of choice, mystery, customization.. Allow us to make bad decisions in break our character.. That's part of what makes the game exciting... We don't like the just grind.. We want to know there is a chance of some weird item to be found,that feels unique. Make the game we waited for since we stopped playing D2. Also make the fights hard and don't give me cool downs and take away my choices... Remember if you focus the game on casual players to much you will fail in the end. The game should be getting more and more difficult as you play with what choices you make, that's part of it.. Otherwise whats the point?? Just walk around casually and kill things? How is that engaging or fitting to the dark theme your artist worked on so hard.. Great job with that btw, love the vibe you guys went with.. I think you guys nailed the mood / atmosphere perfectly so far. Reminds me of D1 but darker.. Even better than D2.. Anyway good luck Blizzard
Hi llama, I'm not much of a youtube guy but I have watched a lot of your channel lately and really like it. I've played diablo since D1 and absolutely love the franchise and the story line. D2 was by far my favorite and like us all went so long without a newer game, finally got D3 played it for a few months and HATED IT!! Twenty years later I still go to D2 over D3. I watched this video on your opinion on D4 and cannot agree more with you. Everything about the items, the look of them, the inventory, that stupid sorc ability, the 300 levels of greater rifts etc. It does feel lazy, and I'm afraid D4 will be built from a poor D3 rather that an amazing D2. I truly think they need to completely forget everything about D3 and base the new game using D2 as a base to start from. There is a reason people STILL play D2. AND I HATE THE SEASONS IN D3, just feels like my hard work and time is constantly and often erased. I like the ladder resets but seasons are just to damn often. HEY BLIZZARD PLEASSSSSSE WATCH THIS VIDEO AND TAKE ***VERY MUCH*** OF THE ADVICE IN HIS VIDEO. Just trust in what worked and stop trying to cram so much shit into D4 like D3. Sorry for the long message, just love the world of diablo so much, don't wanna see the same old shit everyone keeps pumping out for the last decade. Bezzy from Pittsburgh PA.
Glad you emphasize item variety and the general feel of them. Soulless items were the main reason why I quit diablo 3 after only completing the normal difficulty when it came out.
What people are worried about is mostly their design philosophy, it takes a lot from D3 instead of D2 and people just don't like that, look at the items, they are not interesting and they have no depth. Glad your opinion is nuanced, so many just say it's pure awesome or pure garbage.
Hey MrLlama, I've been watching your videos on and off for over two years, but this video finally made me hit the subscribe button. Why? Because you show that you have a really good understanding of the genre, you communicate ideas thoughtfully and with so much precision and passion... therefore I feel that you need all the support you can get to make sure that your (read "Our") voice is heard, and that these ideas from the video are considered at the Blizzard brainstorm meetings which are happening in the company daily. The way you break down D2 makes me realize how much I love that game after all these years, and when you explain it in such fine detail it makes me realize how I was taking all these little things in the game for granted. Actually, I often wonder now if Diablo 2 design was all just a big fluke, or actually a well thought through masterpiece. Anyways, as an old school D1/D2 player, I fully support your visions on D4 and I hope they come through. I really need a new game to play, its been 20 years since I've really tried something else. Keep on making these videos, I almost feel that the future of this game is in your hands!! PS I hope you get invited in secret to Blizzard meetings to help them brainstorm ideas : ) If they are really going for the D2 feel, then they need to hear the thoughts of a D2 fanatic
Nailed it on the itemization talk. One of the developers had a Q&A with Quinn, and was asked if there would be "meta-crafting," i.e. could someone just craft items in town, or would there be a robust system for making items - the answer was "Diablo IV is more about killing monsters." Pretty big slap in the face if they don't change that attitude, because that's the one thing they need to take most from other ARPGs (cough PoE cough) that they need to get right. Hopefully they'll listen. I mean, they've got a few years!
Itemization will be monetized in some form or ruined altogether just like DIII. Always online and MMO-lite shenaningans are all there to funnel some weird virtual currency (paid in real money). Activision demands it.
this is the best D4 vids discussion ive seen so far. itemization, faster hit recovery, layout, item design, skill tree, skill colddown and more need to be rethink
I'm really happy you're one of the few I've seen acknowledge the overreactions by fans/streamers, they are too quick to jump to conclussions and go ham on theories they might have. Good video!
I really like what you said at the beginning. The purpose of this demo was, to present the idea of what Blizzard wants to do with Diablo 4. Nothing more!
Totally agree with you on itemization. About Cooldowns: I feel like having a cd AND having a resource (mana, fury, etc) is kinda counterintuitive. Maybe having some super strong spells cost like 60% mana, so no matter how much mana you have you can only cast it once before running out of it. But then you'd have to have some way of replenishing it, like mana potions or something. About the SoJ: I think it was on Rhykker's stream that I heard David Kim talk about legendaries and that you can only equip one unique legendary. That's why you couldn't equip 2 SoJ's I'm really hoping they make a great game and listen to the feedback. Good to hear your thoughts.
Love that you are telling people that they should get their opinions in check. Plus I love that there are still people out there who haven't just an polarization opinion. Almost everything on the internet is either the best ever, or the worst ever...very refressing that you still have a clear opinion, without being polarization. Now do some speedruns MrLama :). Cheers from the Netherlands!
You look fabulous with the hat and t-shirt mister llama XD. Also your knowledge on diablo's core aspects will be quite valuable for d4 coming out enjoyable. I feel that blizzard can learn a thing or two from OG diablo players like you.
I have heard A LOT of people claiming its a reskin of D3, or bashing on the game because it isn't like PoE or D2. It is SO FAR off from being finished, we need to HELP THE DEVS push the game in the right direction. The Devs have been great and listening to all the feedback!
I remember Jay Wilson was basically the opposite, he didn't like feedback lol. He was even rather mocking to the fanbase who wanted it to be more D2ish / darker etc. He even told Brevik (main developer behind D2) to F off. I knew D3 was going to suck (from my perspective as someone who played D1, then D2 for years) since Jay basically admitted real early on in development that he barely played D2, said he played it a little and didn't have 'fun'. He prob went on Bnet, go owned by a bunch of hackers who hostiled him, got scammed (in trades, in people getting free rushes, etc), then struggled to develop any build (prob messed up all his stat and skill placements, and sucked), and that was his entire player experience of playing D2 lol. Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 online wasn't very friendly (esp for beginners), it wasn't overly co-operative, and was filled with hackers, scammers, and hostile players, etc, plenty of jerks in general, and building trust with others (to help you swap items with mule accounts was extremely valuable, you could only trust a few people, and it took time (and risk) to build trust to such a level). Things that I personally really loved in D1 and D2 (as they made it seem like the Diablo world was a real dark / evil place, but a few good people still existed in it).
If the devs still don't know what the fans of the series want, than i don't even know anymore. Also consider the people who made D2, they made it without any feedback, they just thought about how to make a great game. "We need your help to create this game" sounds desperate and a formula for failure to me.
you don't understand. they don't care about our opinions, because blizzard only cares about the money. that's why they make their games as braindead as possible these days, because this way they can attract the most customers to their inferior products. although I'm kinda hyped, I'd be very cautious about diablo 4 when we look at what a shitshow diablo 3 was.
@@Jez4prez1 Jay Wilson built DIII with all the wrong motivations, quit after two years. The new team tried to salvage the game canning the AA, the game is still inferior to DII in many aspects.
@MrLlamaSC agree with everything you said. Here is my list of things they need to change (hopefully you can see this and add some to the list to pass to devs
agree to a high or low degree on all points. For me 1, 5, 8 and 9 are important. I'd rather they make a damaged enemy look damaged, than to have a health bar.
Some great points in here! A lot of which could be fixed by just giving us options like checkboxes to turn off health bars, damage numbers, adjust UI, etc. But good thoughts on many things, thanks for sharing
I'm glad you represent our community. I'm with you with basically every point and observation (as a long time D1 and D2 fan). Please keep fighting for this game in the future, and voice our concerns and feedback. Thanks in advance.
@@MrLightcrusader i mean there are spells with aoe... blizzard, poison Nova, hurricane, lightning sentry, lightning fury... but i've only ever seen hacked characters able to cast all those at the same time i.e. make the screen explode.
not as fast as poe but d2 had it at d2 pace a full screen full of spells. Just build a charged bolt you will see it.... ua-cam.com/video/_JBjBQb9_os/v-deo.html
As someone who's played d2 since release, I found that people weren't putting the accent on the right things when commenting on d4. You did. To me diablo is about items and stats, and making that really interesting build. Having just item x has a bigger number than item y and is therefore better, is the antithesis of d2 (which is in my opinion the last good diablo title to date) and I agree with you when you say this d3 style of items will be a bust for d4. That said, art style and fighting looks great. They just need to throw away everything relating to d3 and it will be amazing.
I agree with everything you're saying. D3 is too one dimensional with very little decision making regarding items. I really hope they get loot and items right.
Now that we've got a glimpse of D4, I've been thinking of whether it will hold me like D2 did (and still does). The most rewarding feeling of D2 was working with 1-2 real friends of mine through private Bnet games, building our way up and making the best runewords in the game during a ladder. We just did that a couple of years ago. Even if I had to play solo, I want to have that "collection" process of finding runes. I want that ultimate hunt to work my way up to craft the best rune words in the game. Even if I can only craft a couple of them any given ladder/season, it's an incredibly rewarding thing. For me, finding sets and uniques/legendaries just doesn't cut it. There needs to be the crafting process of rune words. The layering of ethereal items, maxing out mercs with specific things, e-bugging, cubing, finding good base items to craft with, socketed items, etc. etc. The loot system is just so great in D2. I'm just hoping D4 can get this right. It was the giant flaw of D3 in my opinion. I'm glad Llama talks about this in this video. Llamas remarks about what he saw in the demo with loot is not a good sign. I know it's super early, but I'm just more skeptical than ever with the direction Blizzard has gone in the past several years.
I would like to run through difficultys, too, rather than just a rift hundreds of times. The story becoming more difficult with resistances being enforced and new damages/skills given to the mobs would almost add a new game 3x (or more) up until the endgame of getting your final gear. Bring back leech rather than cooldowns.
one thing i always loved about d2 is how runes, cube recipes and crafting in general, gave you more control over the random loottables and that, for an experienced player, there was almost always something worth picking up. blue junk ? use it for crafting! random charms ? reroll them! gems ? use them to reroll charms or crafting or make MF gear!, or cube up runes, etc, etc.. after thousands of hours in this game, you can really feel how doors have opened to you that you had NO idea about when you had just started playing. This is the hook that got me back to playing it again and again over the years. Not to mention classbuilds, coop class/build synergy and all those hundreds of little tricks you learn about as you play. modern titles often times just seem so "sterile" in comparison.
Regarding itemization and cooldowns. You nailed it pretty much spot on! I would like to add THE number of skills you can have active aswell, My Main i d2 was skeleton/ce necro and with Enigma and CTA i hade 12 skills i was constantly using. Pls forward or eleborate in a video. Good job sir! Thank you!
The cooldown part reminded me of egoraptors sequelitis, where he pretty much nailed it: "waiting is not difficult". He said it in relation to enemies that are invulnerable for some time, then you wait until you attack. CD are similar, you just wait for x seconds then attack. It's not hard, but it creates the illusion of difficulty because it takes longer to beat an enemy. I agree mostly with the itemization and every tier being valuable depending on your goal. In d3 you pretty much never pick up anything below legendary. Even with lvl 1 you just do 1 round of bounties, then craft rare items, gamble for a legendary at kadala and never pick up anything up to 70. You don't even need the materials, because you can just swap them around. But I do like the fact that all items have the same size in the inventory. It just doesn't make sense gameplay wise to have different sizes. The developer chooses the size of the item and the size of the inventory, so it doesn't really influence your way of playing the game. It is just arbitrary. In D2 most 8 slot items are useless, except for maybe 3 polearm weapons for the merc. But
I love D2 = I love your channel I genuinely hope they really do listen and act on what you said in this video! Your passion and knowlegde about Diablo and these type of games are legendary. They should make a mrllamasc artifact 🔥
haha I'm sure I would design plenty of flawed systems that people don't enjoy or actually don't work well together in a game. Game design seems super tough to get fully right, I just know the stuff that I like after all my playtime :D
Wow Mrllama 10/10. You spoke EXACTLY what was on my mind. Especially about itemization, how D2 even white items can be really good, grey for sockets, blues for magic find/really rare combos, and how rare items were actually rare. I really dislike how common legendaries are. They're not even rare to find. Don't have any feel of legendary to them. PLEASE DEVS WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
i’ll be severely disappointed if inventory Tetris is gone and replaced with one slot for everything. also the idea that gear will straight up tell you if it’s better than what you have on feels very far removed from RPG elements, just like with your experience i find that in games that do this i rarely ever look at the stats myself, it says it’s better so why bother reading it i guess. i see a lot of D3 elements in D4, a lot of ‘accessibility’ which isn’t immediately a bad thing, just like blizzard i don’t want the game so complicated that nobody wants to play it in the first place. when you make a game over ‘accessible’ and treat the player like they’re brain dead and calculate all the drops, items, stats and cool downs for them in order to make sure they’re within the exact spot you orchestrated for them, well you’re not really playing an RPG anymore, are you? i just don’t want D4 to be another sides rolling beat em up
Hate how people have an answer to someone's ideas, and comments and just come from so far out there you have no idea what they are reffering to... I'm like " did you even read it"....?
Perfectly said. If I could explain to Blizzard one thing, it would be that accessibility and streamlining does NOT equate with fun. Period. It might contribute to less frustration, but it also runs the risk of oversimplifying, removing a sense of discovery, and hurting replay value. Blizzard has a serious issue when it comes to unnecessarily streamlining. Not just In Diablo 3, but WOW too!
@@sppd100 Disagree. It's not nastolgia. Limited inventory space and management gives the game a roguelike design, where you have to pick and choose the most needed items to hold onto. This adds more weight to loot hunting, encouraging players to prioritize. The player has to use their best instincts to decide what should stay and what should be discarded. It all adds to the overall experience.
if they comunicate with comunity and hear feedback and make noticable changes, than there is high chance that this Diablo 4 will be AWESOME!! They told us to give them feedback, wich is already a GOOD SIGN Hopefully as a comunity we can help the devs
Thank god you addressed the items, it is by far my biggest concern and what bothered me the most on the demo / videos. I agree 100% on the way you described how diablo 2 items made you think and consider small changes. Less is more and D3 totally didn't get what made diablo 2 item system so good
Awesome breakdown Mr. Llama, probably the best breakdown I've seen yet. I think people are just too excited to see this release and maybe don't understand how much work is unfinished. Can't agree enough with the itemization. Why spend the time and resources as a company to create items that will never be used? d3 whites, magics, rares were worthless, not even worth picking up. D2 every item had a purpose or at least the potential to be used, even whites, I hope they bring that concept back.
Right now, the game is 95% like D3 aside from the look/atmosphere. I know it's very early, but If they don't change/enhance almost every point you have made in this video the game will fail in the long run.. Will a mass amount of people buy the game and play it for a while if they don't? Yes. But it will ultimately fail and go down as just a darker version of d3. I wish I had high hopes for the devs to change itemization outside of the "legionaries will be better than sets" line they keep enchanting, I really do. They really need to add a mass of variety like d2 had with rares/blues still viable end game if you get insanely lucky on a drop with perfect affix's. However, I really don't think they will... They are too close to WoW, D3, and Activision/stockholders running the real show. People will say "you are judging years before release" but let's be real, you can see through it... It's very transparent with blizzard nowadays and it's just hidden behind a beautiful engine with very dark horror artwork that impairs your judgment at this time, but all will be seen in time, unfortunately way too much time to hype it into the dark ground of what could have been... Just like D3...
Thank you MrLlama, I was annoyed by everyone over reacting when they saw the gameplay. Personally, it looks good and seems to play similar to D3 but with D2 aesthetics and clearly a even Darker feel, reminds of D1 actually. If everybody can just take a chill pill and let this build towards something awesome, that would be great. Also, just go on forums and submit feedback on what you'd like to see and maybe, just maybe. They make it happen. I think given Blizzard's recent controversies. It would be in their best interest to actually do this right. Until then, I'll see you...IN HELL
I've been playing since the launch of D1 and even today going after the holy Grail in d2... It's like you pulled my thoughts right out of my head in this video. I agree with almost everything you said and I think this should be shared with the Dev team.
Glad to have watched your video on this, don't get to catch the streams very often but do love what you do and that you do know your D2 and do seem to have at least somewhat decent knowledges of ARPGs in general. I still liked D3 for the most part, but I would have to agree about a lot of the points you've made about both that game, the older ones and things you would love in general. I'm not sure if I care that much that White and Blue items stats and affix aren't too too terribly important. But in the greater lanes of your discussion about itemization. I tend to agree. Which is why I was encouraged to notice affixes that gave bonus to skills or talent, to hear that magic find was possibly returning and that in general they were debating more affixes to add, that should help to increase actual comparing of items. Not that big of a fan of green and red sign just telling you this is better or worse. I agree it was an important part of the experience that got somewhat lost in the sad dumbing down of D3, which I really hope they work toward improving back up in D4. But yeah, at least from what I heard in the panels, demo by streamers and interviews, it did seem encouraging and this part seemed still rather early work to go toward your first point. Also heck yeah about them rebalancing sets to be less prevalent and legendaries to be more step up. That will definitively help customization, which I'm all for. About the difficulty, considering this is a demo of a very early pre-alpha I'm gonna venture a guess at it's not really a thing yet and everything is probably set closer to a very baseline normal style level, just so it's easier to get a feel for going around and fighting as they test everything they're trying to implement day per day. Considering what I saw in some of the world boss event, with half a dozen people dying in a swing and people dying without that much delay in some areas of the harder dungeon that was available, something over the locked level. I think, that by the time it comes out, it should feel a lot better over all. Though I guess we'll see in the end. I have to say about the point on cool down time skills, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss, thank you for putting it so well, let me use the spells and abilities I want when I want and play my way, strategizing how I want to! Aha! About those last few points, I do think that with dungeons and campaign event being private for yourself or your select party only, we should get some good solo bosses, in theory. Of course, if they manage to make those bosses interesting, well, that'll be up to them to deliver for sure. Hopefully so. While we've seen the first phase of runewords, still no signs of charms. For the first, I really really hope they don't end up dumbing them down so much that you can't really make that many interesting combinations with them. A bit sad that there won't apparently be secret words with special effects. But well, that's still honestly early to say. Charms having their own space would have solved lots of issues for inventory in D2 for sure, so hopefully they do have that if they make it into the final new game. With the biggest map yet and them saying they want to make hundreds of dungeons, with the work they've put into the lighting engine to bring back dark corner, there is certainly a basis for them to not look all the same! So hopefully so!
I think I would like a D2 remastered like they did with Starcraft more than a 3D remake On cooldowns: I don't like it either, because your high dmg skills already should be limited by your mana(or equivalent), so you can't spam it
Yeah, no 3d remake. I still like D2 graphics even today (2D with hand-drawn artwork, it's still rather sharpish, love the look of auras, attack animations, monsters, etc). Making it more polished like Brood-war remaster would be awesome. 3D remake would be too much work I guess anyhow, so brood-war style remaster would be the logical and highly likely possibility.
Cooldowns create the opportunity to punish bad choices in PVP. Considering D4 is hopefully being created with pvp in mind first I hope the stay in the game.
I agree with most of what you've said here, especially the itemization portion! Hopefully they really listen to what you've said and take a look at D2's itemization. A lot of us don't just want to have all gear spots filled with legendary items and just hunt for ancients like in D3... I'd like to see end game gear be a mixture of all tiers of items like in D2.
Oh I understand now why most people who don't play these types of games call them button mashing games lol, they never played D2 and their experience is all from newer games like D3 ... It makes sense now! and they are absolutely right!
This video really helps me be less mad about what they showed, so that you! I just cannot help but see SOOOO much D3 in the itemization that I'm very concerned that I will be super bored with the game very quickly. It also feels like they took d3, lowered the lighting to just make the screen darker, and then said it's got the d2 feel.. On the bright side, it looked like there was some decent creativity happening with the druid skills though!
Seems like everyone that is playing D3 now wants D4 to be like D3. Played some last night and ppl chatting in season all were talking about it. Small sample size but that view of the game is definitely there. I don’t want another D3
@@WinjectAi The art style is more like D2, but the skills and items look more like D3. A dark gritty game that has D3 fluid combat, but takes all the depth of the D2 skill trees and itemisation would be superior than what we have seen so far in the gameplay videos.
@@ghodd itemization. Yes. Skill trees. Not really. Diablo 2 skill trees really werent that deep. And most of the time for most builds. 70% of them were completely ignored. Take d2 off the pedastal and think about it objectively
@@johnathanera5863 For their time they were rather deep. Especially when compared to the system of just finding tomes to learn skills in D1. D3 didn't add to the trees, it removed them completely. There was no real reason to play through the game as a given class more than once, unless playing on hardcore. D4 should take the same concept of skill trees and add MORE complexity and depth to them. Make it so I want to level 5+ different druids. Such as a physical werewolf one, or a poison damage werewolf, or a tanky werebear, or more offensive werebear, a storm caster, an earth caster, or a hybrid between different builds, etc..
Awesome video llama! I didn’t initially get what you meant about cooldowns but you’ve explained it so well and it makes so much sense. I couldn’t agree more with the point you made based on items and the attributes! Honestly awesome video. I’m glad that you have a level of importance in the Diablo community so fingers crossed the devs see! Once again, great video!
I could not agree more about the itemization problem with d3 and now d4. The huge variety of stats on items was one of the most important reasons why d2 is so replayable.
Welcome back home. Watched the whole stream even though I live 12 hours away. Loved your and zizaran's insights on the demo. One thing i wanted to mention is that, how the mini map doesn't shows enemies in D2, if D4 could implement some kind of secrecy of how the next enemy is lurking in the dark, that would add so much surprise factor in the game.
Itemization keeps me from having any fun in D3. I agree with you 100% and hope they change their path as they have plenty of time. Your thoughts on cooldowns are spot on!! Also have this man work with the dev team!!
I totally agree with you on the itemization, the game doesnt have any longevity if all you push is high attack and defense items. We know its very early yet so im hopeful. They need to move away from attack on every item and add different stats like runwalk on boots, attack speed on gloves caster rate on rings, resistances, magic find life leech mana leech etc etc, so much to make rares and blues so valuable and really have The free market flourish
This is what D4 needs: D3 combat and smoothness (build upon it, make it even better) with D2 customization/skill system/itemization. It's as simple as that.
I'm totally agreed with u on everything about items! I don know y I feel lack interest in D3 when playing compare to D2 until now, then I found my answer in this videos of yours. The item choices decision, the identify surprise, the inventory management, the specific design of each item size and design... Everything... Hope they changed it and I'll happy to buy D4 and play with my buddy.
First 2 minutes nailed it. Not sure if I need to watch the rest, but I will. It looked nice and much more nostalgic, but I don't like David Kim saying he likes a never ending endgame like Greater Rifts. Outside of a working PvP, I hope there's more to do that's "worth it" outside of rifts and greater rifts. Time will tell.
Never liked the runewords... Prefered the pre 1.10 versions of d2 when it comes to items. Just to clarify my gripe with the 1.10+ runewords is that they grant o-skills (offclass skills) and that they are vastly superior to unique/set items. When it comes to body armor almost all of my characters want to wear either Enigma, Chains of honor or Fortitude. The only exception is the sorc that sometimes want an ormus robes, skin of the viper magi or tal rasha armor. Call to arms is another runeword that is used by literally every class that isnt a barbarian. Then there is stuff like infinity which is used by, again, almost every class. The runeword weapons are also largely superior to other options. In short: they make most other loot drops not really matter.
Runewords took time to learn but they made socketed items potentially better than unique items. That is why runewords were awesome cus you can no longer just ignore the white/grey item drops
The original team is all gone. Along with the knowledge and kinks/tricks they used to put it together. I don't even know if they preserved the source code and documented it correctly. The DIII team wasn't up to par, and I've got little hope the DIV team is teeming with talent and morale (after three canned Diablo projects).
I hope they bring back meaningful mercs. I loved the fact that I could build a merc to support me, or add damage or cc, or I could build my character to support the merc which did all the damage. It felt like playing 2 player yet still solo. D3 mercs are next to useless for the most part.
slyzodiac10 the fist time u build that eth Forty with 3k armor+ for you merc :D The first time i build infinity to go with light sorc... That was soo cool i remember till today
Hopefully the devs are watching.
Skull Punch trust me they are
Tbh, it really seems like they are. They rly don't want to fuck this up haha
@@rdubs1705 again?
I hope they do watch it. Nice reflexions
They watch the bigger streamers. The ones that pull in the most players and viewers of their games. I wouldn’t doubt at least one or two of them is watching and taking notes.
Maybe they have guys now who watch these videos, compile notes, and say, “this is what this streamer wants, is it viable?”
itemisation is totally what im worried about too... its the make and break at the end of the day for an arpg
I think they need to make like in classic wow where in the beginning you happy for every single weapon drop like green ones !! In diablo II it was cool itemisation too.
Agree, i really hope, that at least rare items will become meaningfull again!
Totally agree here. They need to work on the itemsystem really hard. Make it like D2/POE. This oversimplified System is what D3 killed for me.
I am really hoping they take notes on D2 gear, it has the best gear in any ARPG hands down. %chance to cast X spell builds are complete bonkers and some of my favorite builds to make.
Yeah totally, but tbh, not having base stats, like it seemed in the demo, would be a major cut of the RPG component..
This is how proper feedback is given. Send them this video.
they are gonna see it
the question is whether they do something about it or not
agree fully with the feedback
too bad so few ppl remember the good ol diablo 2
@Dyanosis Come on, he wanted to explain it as clearly as possible, so that there's no way he could be misunderstood. Devs probably would like to listen to 40 minutes of specified feedback, and even if not, they can fast forward and make a quick list of Llama's preferences
Mature mind
This could be one of the most important feedback videos regarding D4.
I totally agree with you - we need an interesting itemsystem again: a big variety of (crazy) random stats like in d2 - also things like resistances, lifeleech, magic find, physical/fire/cold/poison dmg and so on.. D3 was way to simple. Also blue items were totally useless there. Not even worth picking them up after 45 minutes ingame, because every yellow item you found from that point on will be better anyway. I also think that there should be some blue items, which could better than anything else you have at that specific moment - no matter which stage of the game, of course with a much lower chance, but it could be. And yes, unidentified is so much more exciting, like double gambling - one time when it drops, the other time, when you identify it.
I also agree that we need charms, more complex skilltrees, other inventory layout and in my opinion also some kind of restrictions, when it comes to skilltree.. I don't want to have all skills available on my Charakte, even if i am level 100. A decission on lvl 5 on which direction i go, should be also have consequences on level 100, no matter what. If i don't like that, i have to restart.
Not just a large variety, but a large variety of potentially relevant stats. Not a bunch of filler stats tha nobody wants.
@@sppd100 There should be actual stat and skill builds separate from each other but symbiotic. There needs to be variety but also a feeling of uniqueness with each individual player. When every character basically looks and plays the same it gets boring AF way too fast. It's rare that any game does this, let alone well.
Just play path. Your describing path of exile.
Lama, this is actually the best recap/impressions I've seen. As always, you're the authority on all things diablo
PS you should play Diablo 1 with the Belzebub (Diablo HD mod)
Belzebub mod is so damn good. Nice hd D1 with some D2 things in there.
y its great i play it just now :D . shit but i was playing mage like a year ago in hell+ is so hard u need to use so much spells bcoz of immunities so now i m using rogue and exept of fuckers witch can blink to u its so ez
belzebub mod is great and fuckin' hard at some times :D
I said this on Reddit too but please, Blizzard, don't make every skill so readily accessible. The best and most fun part of Diablo 2, for me, was the different builds you could make with every character: I could play a Necromancer three times and do something different each time. It greatly increased the replay-ability, and I hated that you could just swap between every skill like D3 like it was nothing; there was always a "push to win" button. Please bring back skill trees and paths and stick to them, or at least keep unlocking everything to a second run with that character on a higher difficulty.
100% agree. D2 replay-ability was magnitudes higher than D3.
Agree 100%, I had fire sorc, lightning sorc, orb sorc plus tempest sorc, blizzard sorc... in d3 you click and you're done...
Maybe have a single respec quest reward if you screw something up and that's it, but only maybe!
I think respeccing shoulf be available at all times, but it should take a lot to do it.
Replayability just based on being locked out and having to do the same things over and over is not fun, the end product is, but levelling a new character just to fine tune a build just is not.
@@knavenformed9436 it means you haveto stick to your choices and think about your actions when it comes to how you mold your charecter. Also if you can respect you're charecter easily what makes you're charecter different from anyone else's when they can copies your biuld with the click of a button? Makes every barb the same previded there the same lvl. There's a reason people still play d2 and there is a reason why no-one still plays d3.
@@knavenformed9436 when I played d3 and discovers that it took away anything special about my charecter
Excellent breakdown, especially liked the bit about skill cooldowns.
Yea, the mindless button mashing of D3 was a disaster
Well, the only two options we've seen so far are:
1. cooldowns - reqires no skill but limits everyone
2. mana potions - requires good timing, but rewards players with faster and smoother gameplay
Cooldowns really depend. There have to be advantages and disadvantages to both: Using the skill on cooldown or holding the skill for later use.
Otherwise the cooldown is unnecessary.
A good example is teleport. Giving it a (long enough) cooldown forces you to make a decision between using it to move quicker, risking not having a getaway tool when you need it, and holding it for an emergency, sacrificing speed. The cooldown adds decision making (as long as it's long enough) in this scenario.
Another good example are CCs. Adding a cooldown to them forces you to choose between using them offensively (forcing the monsters to stay in the area of your damaging skills, or perhaps the CC skill deals damage itself), or defensively (stopping the monsters from getting to you/chasing you).
The cooldown needs to be long enough so the decision actually matters, otherwise you end up with button mashing as is the case in D3.
@@insentia8424 Ok you're right. I just think the FCR system offers more choices over the cooldown system. Also it would be difficult to incorporate the cooldown system if you can switch skills at any moment as in D2, which is a feature most people prefer.
Yes yes yes yes yes. Absolutely agree with everything you said. Please, MrLlama, be our standard bearer. I want D4 to be great, and every issue you brought up is something fixable before release. We need to put pressure on Blizzard to make these changes, especially regarding itemisation and inventory (I need my armour to take up six slots and be big and cool and have rad art!).
Other cool things to add/change:
- Font. I know it's small, but D2's font fit the game. D3/D4's doesn't, currently. I don't know what it is - Arial? Times New Roman? No. Give us D2's font!
- Damage numbers: No, please. It's so ugly and there's no need for it
- Personal opinion and most people will disagree: character customisation is a big no from me. I think I said it somewhere else, but I want to feel like I'm playing _The_ Barbarian, not just _a_ barbarian.
- TP/ID scrolls - not sure why, but having items drop identified just feels...gross. And having a cast time on town portal does too (edit: made this comment before the end of the video and glad you agree!!)
- Oh yeah, just remembered: they're called UNIQUES, Blizzard, not LEGENDARIES. Why did they change this???
- There was more, I'll edit this when I remember
I'm very excited for D4, but I just cannot fathom how they went for a more D3 approach than a D2/PoE approach for items/inventory. Of course it's early days and can change, but if we don't speak up now, it's going to stay that way and like you said, the game will be a total bust.
UP!
Damage numbers can be toggled on or off. I hope they keep that because i love seeing damage numbers
I really like D2's font EXCEPT the fact that 5s and 6s are practically indistinguishable. Fix that and it's perfect.
Yes to all these things!
Item art is really important. I hope this is not the final art please. They are using a blue background on every item, what is that? Its disgusting. I want to look at the item and see a really cool grounded weapon helmet whatever. It needs to be less cartoonish and more raw medieval and OF COURSE take slots depending on the size.
They went for D3 approach because all of the D2 devs are long gone and apparently the D4 team is unable to see why D3 sucked
"Looking at the items wasn't appealing"
This is really of major importance of the overall impression of the game. Hope they completely rework this!
Good point on the (visually) boring looking items. I wish they'd bring back inventory tetris so that we can get some awesome looking item art.
Its worth noting that in the original D3 gameplay trailer from 2010 they also did not have inventory tetris, but it came later. I suspect during the very early stages of game development its not exactly something that matters much so they just use a very basic inventory.
EVERYONE UPVOTE THIS VIDEO
MrLama hits every single point in this video. I'm so happy that someone has finally articulated exactly whats wrong with the direction of the Diablo series since D3.
The game is still being catered to casual players who don't want to have to think or get good at the game. (No hit recovery, skill cooldowns, easy content) are just some of the many ways that diablo turned into a brainless spam of mob grinding.
We NEED to be punished by our decisions. We NEED to be challenged by difficult content.
I agree blizzard will never bring a quality game that requires thinking.I stopped getting hyped from blizzard games years now they just can't do it.
They are good at cinematics though. The only thing they can do right!
@@realitycheck908 the worst is POE was being helped by blizzard...
but to think bli$$tard will improve nope never, they are attracted by money, most majority of gamer are casual dead brain, why do a complexe when most gamer are shit at game, lets do a brainless game. moron capitalist
Im a mad d1 and d2 fan and hated d3 for losing its diablo feel, no hit recovery needs to be introduced hopefully with no smight skill to destroy melee pvp but the cooldown was probably one of the only good things d3 introduced think about it. It crates more diversity bye not being able to just spam the best skill none stop but rather have faster less inpactful skills to use in between. Especially if the game is going to have teleport! We don't want another end game dragon ball z like d2 has that's drifting away from the diablo feel aswell it spoiled pvp and took the game to a pretty silly place.
As someone who loves d2 and your the d2 man I hope blizzard listens to you more and d3 content creators less lol
I think those guys have valuable feedback to contribute as well though!
MrLlamaSC true just love all the points you made in this video and never thought of the reasons I played d2 for so many years compared to other games and I feel the points you brought up are probably why I did play for 12 years
I agree with more d2 and less d3, but their feedback is important to see "what works in d3" and use it. I personally like the dark, but it could use more vibrant colors sometimes, I liked d3 desert and d2 desert, they were not very dark. D3 had that stupid fog everywhere and I hate it so much... it was also tinted green in the cathedral, it looked like shit.
That wont happen because D3 was a commercial success. Mark my words right here , right now. Diablo 4 will be more of a diablo 3.5 than Diablo 2. Having darker atmosphere, runes and trading/pvp doesnt make Diablo 4 a Diablo 2 game ... You need far more than that.
Totally agree with you!
I understand the point going concerning the fact that is was a very early version of the game, and you are totally right to underline this statement. However, since Blizzard decided to show this demo, it is totally legitimate to criticize everything we saw, but not more.
Sure I think you can criticize the demo and put up feedback on things like "we want really interesting talent trees!" I just think it's a little silly when people assume talent trees are in their final form when they even stated they just included it to show it exists. So just gotta compile it all and discuss from there! Either way, nothing is final
we need stats and we need stats to be required in order to use weapons and armor. this gave the game an amazing feeling of earning and gave items dimension. it was interesting. quests need to be linked to character building. we want REASONS to do side quests and main quests other than xp and gold. rewards like d2: perm health increase, stat points, skill points, item socket/customization, personalization, shop prices etc etc!
flesh out the game.
yep this is where i was overreacting when looking at the items (attack & defense only)
This 100000000x this.
They need to stop putting world of Warcraft into everything.
Hope the Devs see this, I agree with everything
The whole system still makes the players look forward to acquire mythic items and don't really appreciate a random magic or rare item that has interesting affix. It really the dead end one way to go of the design "you will start with crap white or magic items and you must get the mythic or certain unique items to do well in end game" that's boring.
They feel like WoW items. Boring bland crap, Even a major upgrade in wow never created Any emotional impact on me. The core problem is the simplified character stats.
If that's your main concern then your problem isn't with the game mate; your problem is with the genre in a whole. The idea of killing bad guys for better items is integral in any rpg/ mmorpg game, ever. We accept that most loot is trash (at least relative to "end-game gear") - that's why it's fun when you get something good. It's fun when you get something that *might* be good. The whole point of playing these games is for that quick second when you find a sick piece of gear
@@Y0utub3me thank you for your opinion, you are not wrong, but what you are saying is not even close to what I'm saying here. I'm not having any problems with the genre.
If they did some limit of 1, maybe to mythic to wear, that would force you to make other items be supportive of that mythic. Have the mythics being random rolls will maybe even force you to rebuild and play around with your skills, as you really want to implement that mythic into your build. Its like finally getting that high rune to finish that OP runeword. Makes you rebuild most of your char. Im am onboard with this. BUT, having like 7 mythics pieces on. NAAAA!
@@danielfarre6994 they just need to listen to these D2 veteran players if they really wanna make it happens, and they will not need to put any limits to the game. If they don't play it long enough, they won't see the problems.
Want to see the inventory to be like d2, I like that different item took different amount of space. It makes you choose more what items to keep and drop
I hated the f***ing inventory in Diablo and Diablo 2 items took up huge amount of space for half the Shit always going back to town all the F***ing time that sucked and if you thank that I'm just a kid that did not play the other two Diablo game that much cuz you thought I was younger I am almost 37
@@18Kasumi You speak like a 15 year-old and the fact that you need to precise that you're 37 without anyone asking you... Let's just say that you don't have alot of credibility and using fuck and shit every 2 words isn't going to add any value to your opinion.
I am very excited for D4, I just hope we get full trading. This is one the most important features and allows for longevity in the community. A lot of the replay is hunting loot and not just for your char.
Fight Globalism TV Preach on! This 100%
Fun note, David Brevik was the original person to suggest a trading system that introduces "bind on trade" and having SOME BoP items. So I am open to the idea, but only if BoP is severely limited for special cases like maybe progression.
I’m open to having binding on some things but I think it needs to be restricted to a few things (and not just because Brevik was open to it). Like in D2 the unique charms were end game elite things that could have been bind on ID or trade. I like the idea of having a few elite things bind to a char or account. I like knowing that if I beat the Uber’s I’m guaranteed to get a torch, and I have a clear path to get that item. I don’t necessarily need to trade for it because it’s about journey building up to the Uber event.
@@Legilimensable yeah for sure,.torch and Anni
I guess probably almost everything in the demo could easily be changed or scrapped or added in future development, inventory slots, item tiers, skill, talent, health mana gauge, etc.
The only thing that is set, IMHO, is the game engine and just judging by this aspect, D4 had a promising base, and whether it will be good or bad is just the ideas building on the game engine. Tons of stupid ideas and you get a bad game, vice versa.
I guess that's why llamas around the world wanted a D2 Remastered, because that game was just full of great ideas.
And the boulder pushing monster off the cliff was just awesome.
The giant map is also most likely set, which means we will be getting 0 map randomization. At most only the dungeons would be "randomized" by getting the game choose from 1 of 3 pre-ser maps.
Exactly the situation of Wolcen at early stage and compared to later when they decided to make it closer to Diablo
@@bigsmall246 What they mentionned about the map, was that the overworld map would be set, but both exterior and interior dungeons and some other instances would be randomized. And they seemed to be tending closer to D2 randomized in the way they were talking about dungeons, then D3 handful of seeds. Was all around pretty encouraging. Even if it's still pretty early days to know for sure what it'll look like in the end! Cheers.
Did you share these opinions with the devs MrLlama?
i sincerely hope they will listen to this. i hate devs making decisions for me through item stats, through skill cooldowns....etc
@@MarioWizzz would hope the devs dont listen to what he says about cooldowns because they are needed for PVP, and they have said they created d4 with pvp in mind
@@BitBam cooldowns are terrible. balance everything properly and you should never need cooldowns for anything
@@superduperjew tell that to the makers of league of legends and dota 2.
in league of legends theres a game mode where all of the champions cooldowns are reduced by 80% making some of the longest base ability cooldowns about 3-5 seconds.
the PVP in this game mode is insanely unbalanced, the most ridiculous champions are so OP that many people cannot find it fun when someone is 'try-harding' one of those champs.
clearly you have no concept of counter play based on cooldowns, when llama explained the importance of cooldowns in pvp in this very video
@@BitBam why not have cooldowns during PVP and no cooldowns during PVE? Since PVP is going to be "consensual".
Then again such a system would be too much effort for the devs to balance, and hence we will never get it.
I also loved the fact that you could find cool endgame items as soon as you got into hell or even nightmare difficulty in D2
And I liked that you could find awesome lower level items in hell that you could use when leveling a new char
Absolutely. That is one of the points I am most concerned about.
Diablo 3 was so bad in that regard.
Basically everything under max. Level was useless later on. I loved to find a Stone of Jordan relatively early on in D2. Also the 2nd best Option for a Slot was of immense importance because the best in Slot item did hardly ever drop.
Harlequin Crest aka Shako is a good example. A great, great Endgame Item. Not the best yoi could have for most builds, but the most realistic one of the good items to get.
Diablo 3 didnt have that. You were always looking for the BiS item - and you found it. Every single day. It just wasnt good enough most of the time and you waited for it to drop again.....In Diablo 2 you were so hapoy when you found a herald of Zakarum or a Vampire Gaze...because those things were damn good and if you wanted something better, you knew this would be incredibly tough to get. Which was awesome. I loved this aspect and the aspect that legendaries didnt scale.
When I found a good Unique Item in Diablo 2, I knew that it was pretty good, no matter how low the roll was.
In Diablo 3 i could find a great Legendary with level 69....which meant its crap....if you know what I mean
@@markmauk8231 I know exactly what you mean! I also think one of the reasons you got so excited for second or third best items, except for their rarity, was because you didn't have grifts with infinitely scaling difficulty so they still allowed you to clear all content or most of the content - just not as fast/ risk free as you would with better gear. In diablo 3 an upgrade always meant you could progress to a higher grift level (provided it's a big enough upgrade obviously).
This is one of the most important things regarding the itemization system. If its full with cool ideas like this - then it can turn out to be something that adds so much to a game. On the other hand, if there isnt cool ideas like this in an itemization system, then the game will be exciting for a month or two, then it will be absolutely non-interesting. I still cant understand how the developers cant piece the puzzle together - we have seen the itemization/the itemaffixes from Diablo, Diablo II and Diablo III. There are so many indicators that suggests that both Diablo and Diablo II has survived the test of time - while there are so many indicators that suggests that Diablo III hasnt. Just look at how much that has been added to the original Diablo III and also look at how it performs and how it has performed. Diablo II didnt have tons and tons of endgame systems, expansions, other customizations options added to it and it still is a great game. Why? Well, one thing is for sure, the itemization system.
Basically they need to look at D2 item system. Maybe add some new touches. These things where both like you said dumbed down and broken in D3.
Also trading, just make it free trading all over like D2. A few event based items character bound like D2.
agree 100% hope they will do so
I agree. Open trading. Let players dictate economy, generate actual wealth and prestige amongst other players. If you can’t trade your godlies, you’re just compartmentalizing the gaming experience when it needs to be open
@@malawigw No, they aren't at all just because you don't use them on a endgame build doesn't mean it's crap, swear to god gamers get dumber every year.
I agree with pretty much everything you said about itemisation. I like 'hmm i think this item will be better for this build than that one' much more than 'you need this item for that build'. Also forced limitations like only 1 SoJ. Those restrictions feel ported from WoW and are very annoying. And trade needs to be open... If you get a cool item that you really want to use on a different char, or to sell, you need to be able to do it.
I like how you mention "you need this item for that build" being inferior to player choice for a build and the SoJ which could possibly be BiS for every class which gives no choice for customizing a build when it comes to rings. What I'm getting at is, if the devs make there own items for the game (legs/mythics/runewords) that you can't add stats to (customize), then there will always be BiS items to use unless those dev made items aren't viable in endgame. What would be cool is dev-made legs/mythics that you could still customize additional affixes. Same thing can be said about runewords in D2. The runewords that were BiS in D2 have the same cookie cutter build feeling as D3 legendaries.
"Also forced limitations like only 1 SoJ." I just want to point out that this feature is and has been in Diablo 3 since launch. I hate it too.
@@sppd100 well something I didnt appreciate until later was sometimes id prefer yellow rings with fcr and res over 2x SoJ. I agree it sucks if it's absolutely BiS because it locks you into something, rather than letting you choose.
Llama,
You are the only D2 player with a voice. Please, be the reason Diablo is saved. Blizzard needs to listen to EVERYTHING you are saying or we will never see a good Diablo game again. Keep up the great work.
Yes yes yes to this. Please. I actually want to enjoy a new Diablo game. Or I'm saying screw it and going to play D2R the rest of my life.
Hey Llama! Just wanted to say thanks for making these videos. It's nice to have a personable guy fighting for the D2 community! Thank you and keep it up!
Blizzard listen to this guy!!! If you want Diablo 4 to be the best game listen, take notes. I have been playing Diablo since D1 came out. This is exactly what D4 needs more of, what made D1/D2 amazing, and what D3 lacked. Please this makes 100% sense. This is not the end all but you need to slow the game down, make it that we have the decisions, make the items exciting and mysterious so we can savior it and not just speed run through all of it. Blizzard now is your chance, I have faith in you..
**Edit**
Also remember Blizzard.. The people you are making the game for is not casual gamers.... We your fans for over 20 years want the game to be full of choice, mystery, customization.. Allow us to make bad decisions in break our character.. That's part of what makes the game exciting... We don't like the just grind.. We want to know there is a chance of some weird item to be found,that feels unique. Make the game we waited for since we stopped playing D2. Also make the fights hard and don't give me cool downs and take away my choices... Remember if you focus the game on casual players to much you will fail in the end. The game should be getting more and more difficult as you play with what choices you make, that's part of it.. Otherwise whats the point?? Just walk around casually and kill things? How is that engaging or fitting to the dark theme your artist worked on so hard.. Great job with that btw, love the vibe you guys went with.. I think you guys nailed the mood / atmosphere perfectly so far. Reminds me of D1 but darker.. Even better than D2.. Anyway good luck Blizzard
I hope they make rare items great again :(
Naret Winn Bruh, RIP my Doom Mask... I cry every morning when I wake up from dreaming about the moment I found it after 5000+ hours...
They mentioned making uniques stronger than sets like diablo 2 because it opens up more builds. Sounds good in theory 🤷🏼♂️
@@jarrettmaltry6305 not like d3 where you switch one set and from 200M dmg you move to 20B crits
I totally agree Diablo 2 itemization is perfection, there is literally a reason for any item to be good magic,white,rare,crafted whatever.
Hi llama, I'm not much of a youtube guy but I have watched a lot of your channel lately and really like it. I've played diablo since D1 and absolutely love the franchise and the story line. D2 was by far my favorite and like us all went so long without a newer game, finally got D3 played it for a few months and HATED IT!! Twenty years later I still go to D2 over D3. I watched this video on your opinion on D4 and cannot agree more with you. Everything about the items, the look of them, the inventory, that stupid sorc ability, the 300 levels of greater rifts etc. It does feel lazy, and I'm afraid D4 will be built from a poor D3 rather that an amazing D2. I truly think they need to completely forget everything about D3 and base the new game using D2 as a base to start from. There is a reason people STILL play D2. AND I HATE THE SEASONS IN D3, just feels like my hard work and time is constantly and often erased. I like the ladder resets but seasons are just to damn often. HEY BLIZZARD PLEASSSSSSE WATCH THIS VIDEO AND TAKE ***VERY MUCH*** OF THE ADVICE IN HIS VIDEO. Just trust in what worked and stop trying to cram so much shit into D4 like D3. Sorry for the long message, just love the world of diablo so much, don't wanna see the same old shit everyone keeps pumping out for the last decade. Bezzy from Pittsburgh PA.
Glad you emphasize item variety and the general feel of them. Soulless items were the main reason why I quit diablo 3 after only completing the normal difficulty when it came out.
Kinda fell in love with Lillith in her “new summoned form”.. awesome cinematic
same here, totally in love with Lilith :) lol
my future baby mama
Demon mom best mom
wat the...
What people are worried about is mostly their design philosophy, it takes a lot from D3 instead of D2 and people just don't like that, look at the items, they are not interesting and they have no depth.
Glad your opinion is nuanced, so many just say it's pure awesome or pure garbage.
Hey MrLlama, I've been watching your videos on and off for over two years, but this video finally made me hit the subscribe button. Why? Because you show that you have a really good understanding of the genre, you communicate ideas thoughtfully and with so much precision and passion... therefore I feel that you need all the support you can get to make sure that your (read "Our") voice is heard, and that these ideas from the video are considered at the Blizzard brainstorm meetings which are happening in the company daily.
The way you break down D2 makes me realize how much I love that game after all these years, and when you explain it in such fine detail it makes me realize how I was taking all these little things in the game for granted. Actually, I often wonder now if Diablo 2 design was all just a big fluke, or actually a well thought through masterpiece.
Anyways, as an old school D1/D2 player, I fully support your visions on D4 and I hope they come through. I really need a new game to play, its been 20 years since I've really tried something else. Keep on making these videos, I almost feel that the future of this game is in your hands!!
PS I hope you get invited in secret to Blizzard meetings to help them brainstorm ideas : ) If they are really going for the D2 feel, then they need to hear the thoughts of a D2 fanatic
Really appreciate that :)
I've listened for 2 minutes and I immediately love your level-headedness, and also you. How have I not heard of you before xD
He's a beautiful man, a small gift from god
welcome to the channel! ty
@@MrLlamaSC I subbed as well great video bro.
Nailed it on the itemization talk. One of the developers had a Q&A with Quinn, and was asked if there would be "meta-crafting," i.e. could someone just craft items in town, or would there be a robust system for making items - the answer was "Diablo IV is more about killing monsters." Pretty big slap in the face if they don't change that attitude, because that's the one thing they need to take most from other ARPGs (cough PoE cough) that they need to get right. Hopefully they'll listen. I mean, they've got a few years!
Itemization will be monetized in some form or ruined altogether just like DIII. Always online and MMO-lite shenaningans are all there to funnel some weird virtual currency (paid in real money). Activision demands it.
this is the best D4 vids discussion ive seen so far. itemization, faster hit recovery, layout, item design, skill tree, skill colddown and more need to be rethink
Highly doubt they will bring back FHR.
@@Funkx2g lol it's sad right?
D4 will not be good unless they implement itemization like D2. You described it perfectly.
I'm really happy you're one of the few I've seen acknowledge the overreactions by fans/streamers, they are too quick to jump to conclussions and go ham on theories they might have. Good video!
I really like what you said at the beginning. The purpose of this demo was, to present the idea of what Blizzard wants to do with Diablo 4. Nothing more!
Totally agree with you on itemization.
About Cooldowns: I feel like having a cd AND having a resource (mana, fury, etc) is kinda counterintuitive. Maybe having some super strong spells cost like 60% mana, so no matter how much mana you have you can only cast it once before running out of it.
But then you'd have to have some way of replenishing it, like mana potions or something.
About the SoJ: I think it was on Rhykker's stream that I heard David Kim talk about legendaries and that you can only equip one unique legendary. That's why you couldn't equip 2 SoJ's
I'm really hoping they make a great game and listen to the feedback.
Good to hear your thoughts.
Love that you are telling people that they should get their opinions in check. Plus I love that there are still people out there who haven't just an polarization opinion. Almost everything on the internet is either the best ever, or the worst ever...very refressing that you still have a clear opinion, without being polarization. Now do some speedruns MrLama :). Cheers from the Netherlands!
You look fabulous with the hat and t-shirt mister llama XD. Also your knowledge on diablo's core aspects will be quite valuable for d4 coming out enjoyable. I feel that blizzard can learn a thing or two from OG diablo players like you.
I have heard A LOT of people claiming its a reskin of D3, or bashing on the game because it isn't like PoE or D2. It is SO FAR off from being finished, we need to HELP THE DEVS push the game in the right direction. The Devs have been great and listening to all the feedback!
I remember Jay Wilson was basically the opposite, he didn't like feedback lol. He was even rather mocking to the fanbase who wanted it to be more D2ish / darker etc. He even told Brevik (main developer behind D2) to F off. I knew D3 was going to suck (from my perspective as someone who played D1, then D2 for years) since Jay basically admitted real early on in development that he barely played D2, said he played it a little and didn't have 'fun'. He prob went on Bnet, go owned by a bunch of hackers who hostiled him, got scammed (in trades, in people getting free rushes, etc), then struggled to develop any build (prob messed up all his stat and skill placements, and sucked), and that was his entire player experience of playing D2 lol. Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 online wasn't very friendly (esp for beginners), it wasn't overly co-operative, and was filled with hackers, scammers, and hostile players, etc, plenty of jerks in general, and building trust with others (to help you swap items with mule accounts was extremely valuable, you could only trust a few people, and it took time (and risk) to build trust to such a level). Things that I personally really loved in D1 and D2 (as they made it seem like the Diablo world was a real dark / evil place, but a few good people still existed in it).
If the devs still don't know what the fans of the series want, than i don't even know anymore. Also consider the people who made D2, they made it without any feedback, they just thought about how to make a great game. "We need your help to create this game" sounds desperate and a formula for failure to me.
you don't understand. they don't care about our opinions, because blizzard only cares about the money. that's why they make their games as braindead as possible these days, because this way they can attract the most customers to their inferior products. although I'm kinda hyped, I'd be very cautious about diablo 4 when we look at what a shitshow diablo 3 was.
@@Jez4prez1 Jay Wilson built DIII with all the wrong motivations, quit after two years. The new team tried to salvage the game canning the AA, the game is still inferior to DII in many aspects.
Blizzard, pls listen to this man!
Why they would listen to a nobody who likes diablo2 or diablo1.. Devs want diablo3 in new engine. They hate diablo2.
I don't think they hate Diablo 2 at all
@MrLlamaSC agree with everything you said. Here is my list of things they need to change (hopefully you can see this and add some to the list to pass to devs
I agree with all the points lol.. hope MrLlama reads your comment
@@chaves88rlz I hope so too.. trying to reach out to the D4 team in all possible ways :/
agree to a high or low degree on all points. For me 1, 5, 8 and 9 are important. I'd rather they make a damaged enemy look damaged, than to have a health bar.
Some great points in here! A lot of which could be fixed by just giving us options like checkboxes to turn off health bars, damage numbers, adjust UI, etc.
But good thoughts on many things, thanks for sharing
38:28 my exact thoughts. I really hope they listened to you
I'm glad you represent our community. I'm with you with basically every point and observation (as a long time D1 and D2 fan). Please keep fighting for this game in the future, and voice our concerns and feedback. Thanks in advance.
all i know is that i hope the end game is not like POE with the whole screen exploding. I hope its like d2, nice clean combat...🤔
you mean like the traps of the assasin or the javazon?
@@MrLightcrusader i mean there are spells with aoe... blizzard, poison Nova, hurricane, lightning sentry, lightning fury... but i've only ever seen hacked characters able to cast all those at the same time i.e. make the screen explode.
Definitely not to the extent of POE/D3
not as fast as poe but d2 had it at d2 pace a full screen full of spells. Just build a charged bolt you will see it....
ua-cam.com/video/_JBjBQb9_os/v-deo.html
yeah but D2 is not even close as the clusterfuck of spells that POE is. Like there is no lore/char skills involved at all.
Very impressive analysis. Especially your thoughts on cooldowns and itemization.
As someone who's played d2 since release, I found that people weren't putting the accent on the right things when commenting on d4. You did. To me diablo is about items and stats, and making that really interesting build. Having just item x has a bigger number than item y and is therefore better, is the antithesis of d2 (which is in my opinion the last good diablo title to date) and I agree with you when you say this d3 style of items will be a bust for d4.
That said, art style and fighting looks great. They just need to throw away everything relating to d3 and it will be amazing.
Diablo IV team should see this Video, full of nice constructive critics !
I agree with everything you're saying. D3 is too one dimensional with very little decision making regarding items. I really hope they get loot and items right.
Now that we've got a glimpse of D4, I've been thinking of whether it will hold me like D2 did (and still does). The most rewarding feeling of D2 was working with 1-2 real friends of mine through private Bnet games, building our way up and making the best runewords in the game during a ladder. We just did that a couple of years ago. Even if I had to play solo, I want to have that "collection" process of finding runes. I want that ultimate hunt to work my way up to craft the best rune words in the game. Even if I can only craft a couple of them any given ladder/season, it's an incredibly rewarding thing. For me, finding sets and uniques/legendaries just doesn't cut it. There needs to be the crafting process of rune words.
The layering of ethereal items, maxing out mercs with specific things, e-bugging, cubing, finding good base items to craft with, socketed items, etc. etc. The loot system is just so great in D2. I'm just hoping D4 can get this right. It was the giant flaw of D3 in my opinion. I'm glad Llama talks about this in this video. Llamas remarks about what he saw in the demo with loot is not a good sign. I know it's super early, but I'm just more skeptical than ever with the direction Blizzard has gone in the past several years.
I would like to run through difficultys, too, rather than just a rift hundreds of times. The story becoming more difficult with resistances being enforced and new damages/skills given to the mobs would almost add a new game 3x (or more) up until the endgame of getting your final gear. Bring back leech rather than cooldowns.
one thing i always loved about d2 is how runes, cube recipes and crafting in general, gave you more control over the random loottables and that, for an experienced player, there was almost always something worth picking up. blue junk ? use it for crafting! random charms ? reroll them! gems ? use them to reroll charms or crafting or make MF gear!, or cube up runes, etc, etc.. after thousands of hours in this game, you can really feel how doors have opened to you that you had NO idea about when you had just started playing. This is the hook that got me back to playing it again and again over the years. Not to mention classbuilds, coop class/build synergy and all those hundreds of little tricks you learn about as you play. modern titles often times just seem so "sterile" in comparison.
Regarding itemization and cooldowns.
You nailed it pretty much spot on!
I would like to add THE number of skills you can have active aswell, My Main i d2 was skeleton/ce necro and with Enigma and CTA i hade 12 skills i was constantly using. Pls forward or eleborate in a video.
Good job sir! Thank you!
The cooldown part reminded me of egoraptors sequelitis, where he pretty much nailed it: "waiting is not difficult". He said it in relation to enemies that are invulnerable for some time, then you wait until you attack. CD are similar, you just wait for x seconds then attack. It's not hard, but it creates the illusion of difficulty because it takes longer to beat an enemy. I agree mostly with the itemization and every tier being valuable depending on your goal. In d3 you pretty much never pick up anything below legendary. Even with lvl 1 you just do 1 round of bounties, then craft rare items, gamble for a legendary at kadala and never pick up anything up to 70. You don't even need the materials, because you can just swap them around. But I do like the fact that all items have the same size in the inventory. It just doesn't make sense gameplay wise to have different sizes. The developer chooses the size of the item and the size of the inventory, so it doesn't really influence your way of playing the game. It is just arbitrary. In D2 most 8 slot items are useless, except for maybe 3 polearm weapons for the merc. But
Hey you pretty summed up my toughts of the game , well time will tell what they change and keep , but yes the CD on skills is not cool in PVE .
I love D2 = I love your channel
I genuinely hope they really do listen and act on what you said in this video!
Your passion and knowlegde about Diablo and these type of games are legendary.
They should make a mrllamasc artifact 🔥
They should just let you design the game and it would be perfect.
As close to D2 as possible - but with some good changes!
haha I'm sure I would design plenty of flawed systems that people don't enjoy or actually don't work well together in a game. Game design seems super tough to get fully right, I just know the stuff that I like after all my playtime :D
D2 with updated graphics/items/story. Thats what i thought d3 was going to be but nope
@@ccxfrank109 sike ;P
Wow Mrllama 10/10. You spoke EXACTLY what was on my mind. Especially about itemization, how D2 even white items can be really good, grey for sockets, blues for magic find/really rare combos, and how rare items were actually rare.
I really dislike how common legendaries are. They're not even rare to find. Don't have any feel of legendary to them.
PLEASE DEVS WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
i’ll be severely disappointed if inventory Tetris is gone and replaced with one slot for everything.
also the idea that gear will straight up tell you if it’s better than what you have on feels very far removed from RPG elements, just like with your experience i find that in games that do this i rarely ever look at the stats myself, it says it’s better so why bother reading it i guess.
i see a lot of D3 elements in D4, a lot of ‘accessibility’ which isn’t immediately a bad thing, just like blizzard i don’t want the game so complicated that nobody wants to play it in the first place.
when you make a game over ‘accessible’ and treat the player like they’re brain dead and calculate all the drops, items, stats and cool downs for them in order to make sure they’re within the exact spot you orchestrated for them, well you’re not really playing an RPG anymore, are you?
i just don’t want D4 to be another sides rolling beat em up
It's a fucking placeholder dude chill of course they'll have more item stats
Hate how people have an answer to someone's ideas, and comments and just come from so far out there you have no idea what they are reffering to... I'm like " did you even read it"....?
Perfectly said. If I could explain to Blizzard one thing, it would be that accessibility and streamlining does NOT equate with fun. Period. It might contribute to less frustration, but it also runs the risk of oversimplifying, removing a sense of discovery, and hurting replay value.
Blizzard has a serious issue when it comes to unnecessarily streamlining. Not just In Diablo 3, but WOW too!
Inventory Tetris...Ha!...No (imo)
I can live with it, but it’s totally not need except for nostalgia.
@@sppd100 Disagree. It's not nastolgia. Limited inventory space and management gives the game a roguelike design, where you have to pick and choose the most needed items to hold onto. This adds more weight to loot hunting, encouraging players to prioritize. The player has to use their best instincts to decide what should stay and what should be discarded. It all adds to the overall experience.
if they comunicate with comunity and hear feedback and make noticable changes, than there is high chance that this Diablo 4 will be AWESOME!!
They told us to give them feedback, wich is already a GOOD SIGN
Hopefully as a comunity we can help the devs
d2 item system is unbeatable, if they come close to that in the end im playing it 24/7 :)
Thank god you addressed the items, it is by far my biggest concern and what bothered me the most on the demo / videos. I agree 100% on the way you described how diablo 2 items made you think and consider small changes. Less is more and D3 totally didn't get what made diablo 2 item system so good
Is this a Rhykker cosplay
It is Halloween
No more drama Llama cosplay
@@MrLlamaSC Is that a Diablo 4 shirt? Where do I get one of those?
its the hat
Awesome breakdown Mr. Llama, probably the best breakdown I've seen yet. I think people are just too excited to see this release and maybe don't understand how much work is unfinished. Can't agree enough with the itemization. Why spend the time and resources as a company to create items that will never be used? d3 whites, magics, rares were worthless, not even worth picking up. D2 every item had a purpose or at least the potential to be used, even whites, I hope they bring that concept back.
Right now, the game is 95% like D3 aside from the look/atmosphere. I know it's very early, but If they don't change/enhance almost every point you have made in this video the game will fail in the long run.. Will a mass amount of people buy the game and play it for a while if they don't? Yes. But it will ultimately fail and go down as just a darker version of d3.
I wish I had high hopes for the devs to change itemization outside of the "legionaries will be better than sets" line they keep enchanting, I really do. They really need to add a mass of variety like d2 had with rares/blues still viable end game if you get insanely lucky on a drop with perfect affix's. However, I really don't think they will... They are too close to WoW, D3, and Activision/stockholders running the real show.
People will say "you are judging years before release" but let's be real, you can see through it... It's very transparent with blizzard nowadays and it's just hidden behind a beautiful engine with very dark horror artwork that impairs your judgment at this time, but all will be seen in time, unfortunately way too much time to hype it into the dark ground of what could have been... Just like D3...
You heard him talk about overreacting in the beginning? Haha but its alright Friend it just means you care. It's alright.
i agree with all of your points, hope the guys that are working in d4 are listening
Thank you MrLlama, I was annoyed by everyone over reacting when they saw the gameplay. Personally, it looks good and seems to play similar to D3 but with D2 aesthetics and clearly a even Darker feel, reminds of D1 actually. If everybody can just take a chill pill and let this build towards something awesome, that would be great. Also, just go on forums and submit feedback on what you'd like to see and maybe, just maybe. They make it happen. I think given Blizzard's recent controversies. It would be in their best interest to actually do this right. Until then, I'll see you...IN HELL
I've been playing since the launch of D1 and even today going after the holy Grail in d2... It's like you pulled my thoughts right out of my head in this video. I agree with almost everything you said and I think this should be shared with the Dev team.
Rather than having cooldowns on the abilities, have higher mana costs on them. That way you might want a high mana replenishment build.
completely agree. I hate cooldowns.
Yep I would prefer that as a limiting factor
Glad to have watched your video on this, don't get to catch the streams very often but do love what you do and that you do know your D2 and do seem to have at least somewhat decent knowledges of ARPGs in general. I still liked D3 for the most part, but I would have to agree about a lot of the points you've made about both that game, the older ones and things you would love in general.
I'm not sure if I care that much that White and Blue items stats and affix aren't too too terribly important. But in the greater lanes of your discussion about itemization. I tend to agree. Which is why I was encouraged to notice affixes that gave bonus to skills or talent, to hear that magic find was possibly returning and that in general they were debating more affixes to add, that should help to increase actual comparing of items. Not that big of a fan of green and red sign just telling you this is better or worse. I agree it was an important part of the experience that got somewhat lost in the sad dumbing down of D3, which I really hope they work toward improving back up in D4. But yeah, at least from what I heard in the panels, demo by streamers and interviews, it did seem encouraging and this part seemed still rather early work to go toward your first point. Also heck yeah about them rebalancing sets to be less prevalent and legendaries to be more step up. That will definitively help customization, which I'm all for.
About the difficulty, considering this is a demo of a very early pre-alpha I'm gonna venture a guess at it's not really a thing yet and everything is probably set closer to a very baseline normal style level, just so it's easier to get a feel for going around and fighting as they test everything they're trying to implement day per day. Considering what I saw in some of the world boss event, with half a dozen people dying in a swing and people dying without that much delay in some areas of the harder dungeon that was available, something over the locked level. I think, that by the time it comes out, it should feel a lot better over all. Though I guess we'll see in the end. I have to say about the point on cool down time skills, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss, thank you for putting it so well, let me use the spells and abilities I want when I want and play my way, strategizing how I want to! Aha!
About those last few points, I do think that with dungeons and campaign event being private for yourself or your select party only, we should get some good solo bosses, in theory. Of course, if they manage to make those bosses interesting, well, that'll be up to them to deliver for sure. Hopefully so. While we've seen the first phase of runewords, still no signs of charms. For the first, I really really hope they don't end up dumbing them down so much that you can't really make that many interesting combinations with them. A bit sad that there won't apparently be secret words with special effects. But well, that's still honestly early to say. Charms having their own space would have solved lots of issues for inventory in D2 for sure, so hopefully they do have that if they make it into the final new game. With the biggest map yet and them saying they want to make hundreds of dungeons, with the work they've put into the lighting engine to bring back dark corner, there is certainly a basis for them to not look all the same! So hopefully so!
I think I would like a D2 remastered like they did with Starcraft more than a 3D remake
On cooldowns: I don't like it either, because your high dmg skills already should be limited by your mana(or equivalent), so you can't spam it
Yeah, no 3d remake. I still like D2 graphics even today (2D with hand-drawn artwork, it's still rather sharpish, love the look of auras, attack animations, monsters, etc). Making it more polished like Brood-war remaster would be awesome. 3D remake would be too much work I guess anyhow, so brood-war style remaster would be the logical and highly likely possibility.
Cooldowns create the opportunity to punish bad choices in PVP. Considering D4 is hopefully being created with pvp in mind first I hope the stay in the game.
I agree with most of what you've said here, especially the itemization portion! Hopefully they really listen to what you've said and take a look at D2's itemization. A lot of us don't just want to have all gear spots filled with legendary items and just hunt for ancients like in D3... I'd like to see end game gear be a mixture of all tiers of items like in D2.
Oh I understand now why most people who don't play these types of games call them button mashing games lol, they never played D2 and their experience is all from newer games like D3 ... It makes sense now! and they are absolutely right!
This video really helps me be less mad about what they showed, so that you! I just cannot help but see SOOOO much D3 in the itemization that I'm very concerned that I will be super bored with the game very quickly. It also feels like they took d3, lowered the lighting to just make the screen darker, and then said it's got the d2 feel.. On the bright side, it looked like there was some decent creativity happening with the druid skills though!
How many times do we have to tell blizzard/activision that we want d2. Not d3
This basic 3 minute demo showed is a couple of things. Its Gritty, looks close to D2. Give it time i expect great things. ;)
Seems like everyone that is playing D3 now wants D4 to be like D3. Played some last night and ppl chatting in season all were talking about it. Small sample size but that view of the game is definitely there.
I don’t want another D3
@@WinjectAi The art style is more like D2, but the skills and items look more like D3. A dark gritty game that has D3 fluid combat, but takes all the depth of the D2 skill trees and itemisation would be superior than what we have seen so far in the gameplay videos.
@@ghodd itemization. Yes. Skill trees. Not really. Diablo 2 skill trees really werent that deep. And most of the time for most builds. 70% of them were completely ignored. Take d2 off the pedastal and think about it objectively
@@johnathanera5863 For their time they were rather deep. Especially when compared to the system of just finding tomes to learn skills in D1.
D3 didn't add to the trees, it removed them completely. There was no real reason to play through the game as a given class more than once, unless playing on hardcore.
D4 should take the same concept of skill trees and add MORE complexity and depth to them. Make it so I want to level 5+ different druids. Such as a physical werewolf one, or a poison damage werewolf, or a tanky werebear, or more offensive werebear, a storm caster, an earth caster, or a hybrid between different builds, etc..
Awesome video llama! I didn’t initially get what you meant about cooldowns but you’ve explained it so well and it makes so much sense. I couldn’t agree more with the point you made based on items and the attributes! Honestly awesome video. I’m glad that you have a level of importance in the Diablo community so fingers crossed the devs see! Once again, great video!
Get on the dev team llama! save us all.
I could not agree more about the itemization problem with d3 and now d4. The huge variety of stats on items was one of the most important reasons why d2 is so replayable.
D2 is king
Welcome back home. Watched the whole stream even though I live 12 hours away. Loved your and zizaran's insights on the demo. One thing i wanted to mention is that, how the mini map doesn't shows enemies in D2, if D4 could implement some kind of secrecy of how the next enemy is lurking in the dark, that would add so much surprise factor in the game.
Apparently Duriel and Andariel are coming back :D
you mean andariel?
@@GOLEM-yf4mx Yeah
Itemization keeps me from having any fun in D3. I agree with you 100% and hope they change their path as they have plenty of time.
Your thoughts on cooldowns are spot on!!
Also have this man work with the dev team!!
Cooldown skills and cooldown potion will make it feel exactly like D3. At this stage, the game is a d3 remaster, not d2..
I totally agree with you on the itemization, the game doesnt have any longevity if all you push is high attack and defense items. We know its very early yet so im hopeful. They need to move away from attack on every item and add different stats like runwalk on boots, attack speed on gloves caster rate on rings, resistances, magic find life leech mana leech etc etc, so much to make rares and blues so valuable and really have The free market flourish
This is what D4 needs: D3 combat and smoothness (build upon it, make it even better) with D2 customization/skill system/itemization. It's as simple as that.
Omg, feels like you are reading my thoughts.
MrLlamaSC, if they listen to you - it will be the greatest game ever.
Thank you so much! Great work!
Bring back amazing Rares!
I'm totally agreed with u on everything about items! I don know y I feel lack interest in D3 when playing compare to D2 until now, then I found my answer in this videos of yours. The item choices decision, the identify surprise, the inventory management, the specific design of each item size and design... Everything... Hope they changed it and I'll happy to buy D4 and play with my buddy.
I need that cap.
First 2 minutes nailed it. Not sure if I need to watch the rest, but I will. It looked nice and much more nostalgic, but I don't like David Kim saying he likes a never ending endgame like Greater Rifts. Outside of a working PvP, I hope there's more to do that's "worth it" outside of rifts and greater rifts. Time will tell.
White, Magic, Unique, Socketed Items, Runewords ! No Legendary's! Yes make the item loot like in D2
Never liked the runewords... Prefered the pre 1.10 versions of d2 when it comes to items.
Just to clarify my gripe with the 1.10+ runewords is that they grant o-skills (offclass skills) and that they are vastly superior to unique/set items. When it comes to body armor almost all of my characters want to wear either Enigma, Chains of honor or Fortitude. The only exception is the sorc that sometimes want an ormus robes, skin of the viper magi or tal rasha armor. Call to arms is another runeword that is used by literally every class that isnt a barbarian. Then there is stuff like infinity which is used by, again, almost every class. The runeword weapons are also largely superior to other options. In short: they make most other loot drops not really matter.
Runewords took time to learn but they made socketed items potentially better than unique items. That is why runewords were awesome cus you can no longer just ignore the white/grey item drops
Just tone them down a bit. Enigma, Coh etc ruined the balance. Alot of them were cool alternatives though. Just a balance issue.
I hope they implement all of the changes you recommended. Totally agree with the itemization issue and the map randomization/uniqueness issue.
Blizzard, please hire this man.
Such great feedback.
Unfortunately Blizzard doesn’t have the talent to pull this off anymore.
A real shame.
Love you llama.
They could learn alot by looking how the D2 Engine was implemented.
D2 engine is a complete mess watch interviews with David Brevik
@@S3kk4 Feels alot better then WOW. if i wanted to play wow i would play it.
The original team is all gone. Along with the knowledge and kinks/tricks they used to put it together. I don't even know if they preserved the source code and documented it correctly. The DIII team wasn't up to par, and I've got little hope the DIV team is teeming with talent and morale (after three canned Diablo projects).
I hope they bring back meaningful mercs. I loved the fact that I could build a merc to support me, or add damage or cc, or I could build my character to support the merc which did all the damage. It felt like playing 2 player yet still solo. D3 mercs are next to useless for the most part.
slyzodiac10 the fist time u build that eth Forty with 3k armor+ for you merc :D
The first time i build infinity to go with light sorc... That was soo cool i remember till today