My great-grandfather fought in British Army during WWII (he was a Polish legionary) and said that when British troops kept their distance, Indians and Ghukhas were the first who took them under their wing. They fought in African desert side-by-side with them and my great-grandfather had only positives to say about them. And British officers who led them were sometimes quite a characters. One of them, minor Scottish nobleman, WWI cavalry veteran with a lot of medals, cannot remember their native names so he renamed every man in his unit with English names. Which he remembered perfectly. "You need proper English name, my boy. You wear British uniform, you fight as a proper Englishman, so you need a proper name" was his philosophy. It sounds pretty racist, I know but his men loved him, he led by an example, with basket-hilted sword in hand, in full officer dress, under fire. And when in Cairo his staff sergeant and intendant weren't allowed in officer's club because they were "coloured", he said: "What do you mean, these men aren't allowed in? They are the finest British gentlemen I've ever met! They are more British than most of you!" As far as I know, he was lobbing for pensions for Ghurkha veterans after the war.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 why racist? it is a matter of combat efficiency and survival on the battlefield. if a commander can't address someone because of difficult to pronounce or memorize names, they are doomed.
Unbelievable...what a mind! the guy assigned names and remembered them after....WOW. id follow a guy like that b4 i followed the ones i had to in the nav.
A British company commander in the Indian Army was expected, with the help of his jemadar, to know the personal details and family situations of every one of his men. He would play to role of "father to his men" to a much greater extent that in a white British unit.
My great uncle was a pilot in India flying missions over the Japanese on that front. He always said that the Indian pilots and ground crews he worked with were unorthodox by US standards, but in their own way, excellent. He said that flying C47s over Burma was really only possible because of the sacrifices Indian workers and troops made.
My grandfather was probably tinkering around those planes as a mechanic, he was initially in RIAF followed by USAAF and then RIAF again in the CIB theatre in WW2, after Independance RIAF became IAF from where he retired as a Warrant Officer having served with IAF in '48, '62, and '65.
Best way I've ever described commonwealth troops we have served with, unorthodox, possibly crazy so they fit right in but always a pleasure to serve with
Thank you TIK, for making my day with the map showing West Taiwan. Your small digs scattered through more recent videos like easter eggs are most enjoyable.
@@jstevinik3261armies are never much more more than 1%. i think the fringeness is mainly that they were recruited fron certain parts of the population-punjabis, pathans, gurkhas etc. Other elements specialised at different things e.g. lots of Bengalis in the ICS, Parsis overrepresented in business, Marwari bankers. Pride in the King wasn't a facet of the "fringeness"
1)Correction - Britain wasn't the first to abolish slavery. The Marathas /Shivaji did it in India in 1600s by decree (26th Aug 1677). British replaced Marathas as rulers of India. Slavery of Hindus was rampant under Mughals (who ruled before Marathas and were still around nominally till 1860s) & Hindu slaves flooded the central Asian slave markets of Bukhara & Samarkand (Hindukush range in Afg, "killer of Hindus" is named due to the massive deaths of Hindus slaves while being transported) 2)Bang on regarding British Indian soldiers. Have family members who served in ww2 - it was seen as a respectable job but without any patriotism whatsoever. 3)Bose is still seen as a national hero in India on par or even greater than Gandhi. Goes to show, your heros can be someone else's villains & vice-versa. He is a similar figure as Sukarno of Indonesia who worked with the Japanese to defeat the Dutch.
I think slavery had already died out in England by early 1100. The judgement in the mid 1700s in Britain that slavery was not allowed harkened back laws that were passed in about 1086. Much earlier than everywhere else on earth.
The difference is that Soekarno has the oppurtunity to break free and fully shows he is for an independent state, history doesnt give Bose such chance and so he's remembered horribly outside of India
It seems that any soldier, no matter their race, culture, background, etc, given the proper training, equipment, and leadership are all as capable as one another.
@@SepticFuddy race is hardly a myth. saying its a myth is a 'don't believe your lieing eyes' argument. its more accurate to say that its irrelevant (and that beliefs and behaviours, be it individual or cultural, is whats actually important) but not that its a myth.
'The Indian Army started [the war] as a colonial police force.' Fair enough, but the British Army for most of its existence has been a colonial police force, too. Nice piece of work, great to hear a mention of Indian troops outside the Burma campaign. Thanks TIK.
@Nicolai Myshkin It is not nonsense. Half the regular army was stationed overseas for nearly 200 years. The Indian Army was to take over this role if they had to be withdrawn for a European war. When India got independence, they even considered raising Nigeria troops to police the residual empire.
2:35 TIK are you implying India, one of the 4 cornerstones of civilisation, was ”uncivilised”? Or that Britain was the very country in history to abolish slavery, even though Iceland did it 663 years earlier? Surely that's not the narrative you ascribe to?
I, an Indian, would certainly tolerate British rule when compared to Mughals. Well yes, one of the greatest Indian Empire, the Mauryan Empire, had in fact abolished slavery (as we can see from many accounts of Greek Emissaries). While debt bondage did exist (labour done through a voluntary contract in order to pay off their debt), the concept of selling and buying people just was not there. However this changed when the Mughals invaded, them invading because we were pagans (kuffars as they would calls us) who were "savages" and "subverted" Muslims and they had begun the slave trade and connected India to Slave Markets like the ones of Uzbekistan and Arabia
@@vizprave6721 The Mughals were not the first muslim rulers of India, have you forgotten the Delhi sultanate? And Akbar the great certainly didn't hold hindus to contempt considering his efforts to be an enlightened ruler the general atmosphere of tolerance in his time. Do you have a source to back up non-muslim Indians being sold as slaves? That is the first time I heard that. The reason I find that unlikely is because of the atmosphere of tolerance I mentioned previously and the fact that the hindus where the majority.
@@andro7862 well I made a mistake saying Mughals but ghaznavids and other muslim invaders did. In fact I can trace my roots to the sourashtra region in Gujarat (North India) yet all sourashtra speakers now reside in the South and that was because of the ghaznavids
@@andro7862 while Akbar might've been the most tolerant out of all the other muslim leaders, this is not to say that he was revolutionary and not like another muslim ruler. He was still oppressive and a lot of temple desacrations did happen under his rule
It is never the race or skin colour of troops that determine their effectiveness, But the training, Equipment and officers that command them that determine the ability.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD Europeans in general are very racists to us and same with Americans and Israelis. They think that us having a slightly darker skin than them makes us inferior. I have met many who treat us in this way. Especially in the Himalayas where we live and they come as tourists
I think the Indians played a rather underrated role in defeating the Japanese. They stopped their advance on South Asia, and beat it back with heavy losses.
Heya Bullet, I visited the allies cemetary in Lae PNG, and was astounded by the number of Indian Graves and yet I'd never heard of this campaigning. It's so sad to see the vast cemetary and , I was so impressed by the PNG people's care and respect for the fallen. ✝️
Grats on taking a bit of a topic break from Stalingrad, you’ve earned it. Consistently interesting content and logical analysis are on the menu at TIK.
I'm looking forward to hearing about the East African campaign. It's almost completely neglected in contemporary ww2 history it seems, along with the early Pacific campaign fought by the Australians
I've read about the battle of the Kokoda Track in New Guinea, and the efforts of the Australian troops there to defend what was basically the last natural obstacle before Australia's northern coast. Definitely deserves a video.
Thank you, Tik. I've always enjoyed reading out the Colonial Forces of the Allies during both World Wars. The Indian soldiers that fought during the Second World War against the Axis, in my personal opinion, have been forgotten by the majority in both the UK and India. I doubt many Americans know about their stories either. Thank you for giving them coverage and recognition.
My Grandfather served with the 18th Indian Infantry brigade. This unit was wiped out in the 1st battle of El Alamein. Later on he was "sacrificed " as a POW during the SS Scillin incident .
@@pepe_152 The SS Scillin was one of several Italian merchant vessels that were sunk by the Royal Navy, in Mediterranean sea. Unfortunately these ships were packed with allied POW's. The Admiralty knew that these ships were carrying POW's but did not stop the attacks . They knew about the POW's because they were reading the encrypted messages cracked by " Ultra". The work done by " Ultra " was such an important secret to keep that the POW's were sacrificed to keep it so. There was an investigation after the war and the files were closed with a 50 year restriction. This was done to protect an " Intelligence source ". In 1996 the files were opened and Ultra was named as the source. My Grandmother passed away before 1996, so she never knew why her husband had to perish.
Never knew that 1. Britain was concerned about a Russian invasion of India. And 2. That Britain thought the Japanese threat had receded right before the war. Fascinating.
my grandad was based in India before ww2, he was in the army and a very good photographer ,we still have many of his original photos from that time, he got his MC in Burma and an OBE later,
Another thing about British India is try as they might the Brits couldn't fully destroy the caste system. The Rajputs were the military caste and traditionally held a lot of power and refused to associate with other castes. The Brits didn't care and formed units from every caste, some of which were partially integrated with others. And since India is actually several countries forced into one colony, many unit recruitment were segregated on region as well. A system which continues even now.
@@metaphorpritam Different castes aren't necessarily different races, they just like to pretend they are. Like how many lower caste people simply conseil their backgrounds and no one ever suspects a thing
@@samsonsoturian6013 LMAO.... I belong to a low-caste too. The thing is caste dynamics in India is a mixture of serfdom, class hierarchy and ethnic boundaries established in feudal India. Even converted Muslims inherited the same structure: Asraf vs Azraf.... Most outsiders don't understand this nuance
7:40 Reminds me of the story I read about Dalton Trumbo. In the interwar years and early days of WW2 he was extremely anti war and wrote many books and articles about how war was only caused by capitalism and that a war with Germany was bad. But then Germany invaded the holy land of the Soviet Union and Trumbo, being a dedicated communist, took a complete 180 and started urging people to join the war. He even demanded his publishers to recall his famous anti war book "Johnny's Got his Gun" because he was afraid it would discourage people from enlisting. Also Trumbo and many other communist authors and film producers created a group that tried to ruin the careers of other anti war writers and authors because they weren't communist. Of course the movie Trumbo won't tell you that.
Indian troops did really well for where they were at. Nobody did well vs the Japanese early war, so you could hardly ask for better performance. The multitude of languages can't help either. Gen Slim in his memoirs mentions how being confident in speech is all that matters, when aides caught him speaking Gurkhali to Tamil troops.
My father fought in the (Canadian) Trois Rivieres Cavalry (a tank regiment ) in Italy. He contracted malaria. A Sikh soldier gave him a big chunk of opium to shove up his ass. Diarrhea from malaria can cause fatal dehydration. The opium is intended as an anti-diuretic..... Some German soldiers had little metal gold stars on their uniforms. My father said they would take some from German POWs and put them on their caps, as a joke on the Americans, who would salute what they thought was a four-star general.
That old malaria cure scam ..... back then 🤔 I fell for that in 87 in Amsterdam. "No well ? Here come with me." 6'4" Brazilian trans-sexual of African ancestry. I couldn't walk for a fortnight after. Obviously. Didn't tell a sole. Said I fell on some stairs." ............. (I still get a rose every Valentines day. He/She must be late 70s now.) I must have made an impression.
@@hachwarwickshire1718 Well, I never did look into it to see whether opium could possibly help. But if you have malaria you feel so awful that you'd likely try anything.
Thanks TIK. In the days of recrimination following the July battles in 1942 NZ Brigadier Kippenberger asked his men to follow the example of the Indians, admiring their professionalism and soldierly qualities.
There was a fair bit of secondment from the British to Indian Army involving railway engineers, who kept the supply chains open into Burma. They were very much all in it together, engineering being a brotherhood itself; when trains were derailed in remote locations, they just built new loops round the accident sites and cracked on.
The middle management of Indian railways was traditionally a stronghold of mixed race Anglo-Indians. The Anglo-Indians were a reliable element when the native population became hostile.
@@dianblum5406 not during WW2. My grandfather and 2 of his brothers were middle management in Indian railways during the war and in fact worked to keep the railways running in NE India. By and large the Indian public were not hostile to British even in 1940s even though the Bengal famine caused a lot of dissatisfaction and pain.
Not-so-fun Fact: Indian troops were used even after the Japanese surrender, specifically to quell local, nationalist movements in South-East Asia, such as in Indochina and Indonesia. These forces were comprised of Indian, Gurkhas, and British troops in the British-Indian Army, and around half a dozen or more divisions took part in this. Actually, they formed the largest component of British Indian forces in the largest battle involving British forces after the Second World War: the Battle of Surabaya, 10-31 November 1945, against Indonesian youths and nationalist troops. About 18 thousand British Indian troops took part in this battle, mostly from the 5th Indian Infantry Division (two brigades and other non-brigade components) and the 49th Indian Infantry Brigade, against around 30 to 50 thousand Indonesian fighters.
While it might not sound honourable, the intervention in Java against the Indonesian independence movement did save innocent lives. Japan had trained the nationalist Pemoedas as a contingency to maintain their hold on Indonesia, and they were deeply indoctrinated in the same extreme propaganda that the military government of Japan used on its own population. This led to attrocities against Europeans, mixed race Indo-Europeans, anyone suspected of supporting to pre-war colonial authorities, Chinese immigrants, and the Japanese who had armed and trained them. My grandfather was stationed on Java in the following years, despite having successfully avoided becoming drafted into the German labour program. He was lucky, as he was only in the logistics company and would not be sent out into the countryside. The Indonesian War for Independence would have some very eerie similarities to the later Vietnam war, with the conventional, western army facing guerilla forces who had amongsts the village populations. And, unable to differentiate a rice farmer from a murderous terrorist, the dutch forces applied increasingly harsh strategies to 'deal' with the problem.
A significant number of Japanese troops stayed active in Indonesia after WW2… About half the post war Indonesian army was trained under Imperial Japanese instructors…
Please note that in addition to martial "peoples" e.g. Sikhs, Pathans, Gurkas, there is a Hindu "warrior caste" (Kshatriyas), who would be primarily eligible for army service.
I read Montgomery's autobiography when I was 12, I think, and one comment stuck by me. He had created X Corps as an armoured corps, to exploit successful penetrations. His designated commander of X Corps, General Lumsden was a bit underwhelming. Montgomery's words about X Corps still stick with me: "I had a Corps de Chasse[;)] that just wouldn't chasse".
"They enlisted for personal gain." Sounds like the motive for most of the people who enlist in the U.S. military. There for the paycheck and skill training, not to fight.
Yeah well we're not at war with anyone so what would you expect? The military has always been essentially a large jobs program, especially in peace time.
@@MintyLime703 You know what I expect? I expect that when someone takes their oath, they do so with a sober recognition of the obligations and risks of military service. That they are there to serve, not exploit. Do you want to argue that that is asking too much? If so, please do not enlist and if you already served, refund all your pay. If modern warfare has taught anything, there is no such thing as a front line, so if you're a mechanic, or clerk, or radar tech, you need to be ready to defend yourself and the people around you even at the cost of your life. Now, f that seems too much for you, then stay the F out of uniform..
@@juliancate7089 Would you go fight in a war between India and Pakistan for no personal gain whatsoever? If not, then why should they. In fact if you read about the Jews in Palestine during WW2, most of them couldn't care less about stopping Hitler and only wanted to get training and weapons to use against Palestinian Arabs. They cared much more about their independence and statehood struggle than a war in Europe, albeit one where Jews were being exterminated.
@@andro7862 Firstly, I am a combat veteran. In every conflict that I participated, I was fighting for the benefit of people who were not Americans. An argument could be made that we were there to advance "American interests", but the reality was that it was about doing what was thought to be the right thing. One group was engaging in criminal and destructives acts that victimized another group for reasons that were not justified. So, not only have I fought in someone else's war, I believe I was doing the right - morally correct and justifiable - thing. Now, if you don't want to fight for someone who cannot help themselves, or you don't want to get killed where you don't believe you have an interest, then stay the F out of the military. No one is forcing you. You don't have the right to join an organization whose sole purpose is to fight and win wars and then lecture the rest of us about how you don't want to participate. Right? Stay the F out of the military. People who join for reasons that do not involve fighting and winning wars, are freeloaders and morally bankrupted. As for your uniquely anti-Semitic re-write of history, it's totally irrelevant to what I've said and I think you're a disgusting racist.
@@juliancate7089 much respect to you as a veteran but don't you realise the Indians would rather want freedom instead of fighting a war far away. The British colonised and have subjugated them for years, you can't expect them to just join up at a moments notice to die for god, queen and country. It seems that you are neither very empathetic nor very logical. The Indians obviously take pride in their culture so has every countrymen till date. I am pretty sure a lot of Indians just wanted to survive, trust me you wouldn't have done any different if you lived there during those times. As for the point you made that indians shouldn't join if they didn't want to, the British empire would have literally perished without the Indian war effort and sacrifices. Pretty sure people might have been conscripted in the Indian army at that time and such records of incidents aren't known today.
The lack of heavy weapons does go a long way to explaining why the Indian divisions had issues fighting the Japanese in 1941-1942. If you lack tanks, AT guns, and heavy artillery, you will have issues fighting a force that has all three and knows how to use them.
Dear TIK. 3 minutes into you're video, and I know I'm going to enjoy it greatly. My Father's Father served in India on the Punjab Rifles and has many stories about his and his families time there. From what I know of the Indian Army at the time. They were very reliable soldiers and have a good record for themselves. Some black spots on it I know. But dependable soldiers. "But is this Really the Case?" Well, let's see what the rest of your video says. Also. 'It ain't half hot' down there you know.
Well. I certainly found this video very Enlightening. And no, not the Commie kind, don't worry. But heck, you can't escape Politics or Economics in War can you. I had a basic idea of the Independence movement in India at the time, but never knew how divided it was. Heck. Commies back then are not different than they are now. Or I should just say Socialists. Using that C word as a real Buzzer thing. And I wasn't aware of how much the Indian army depended on the Punjabs along with these Panthans I never heard about till now. When War calls, you really can't afford to be picky about the barrels you have to scape in order to get manpower needed. This 4th Indian Division has certainly caught my attention as well. These guys sound like the star league boys of the Indian Army and be very interested in more on them. And lastly Montgomery... Monty huh... The more I learn on him, and hear being covered on him. The more I really questions was he really as good a General as he's clamed to be. This business about not getting into the Indian Army because he wasn't good enough or didn't have the grades, and him being bitter about it. Wow, heck of a clash with your ego image huh Monty. And this business about a set piece battle? Sounds more like the sort of thing you do with Muskets & Black Powder than in Modern Warfare. And his bitterness of not getting posted to India and him relegating the 4th Indian to rear echelon stuff when the 8th Army got them back. That spectacular win of theirs against the Axis and creating a 5 mile gap! Heck of an Achievement. I really need to get on with reading my Burma book where much of this Jungle Warfare stuff took place. Cause while the quality of Divisions varies from Unit to Unit, as it does in every Army. I really do have a high Opinion of the Indian Army. They weren't perfect, and it took some time for them to get good. But they were capable fighters. Thanks very much for doing this. Looking forward to more of your work soon TIK.
@@markaxworthy2508 My Father's Dad thing says, "2/15th Punjab Regiment". Which I think means, he was a Major, 2nd Battalion of the 15th Regiment of the Punjab Rifles. No expect in this bear in mind.
Thank you. I had thought that the Indian army was too little covered in WW2. You have encouraged me to look more into other history of the Indian army, like the Indo Pakistan war of 1971.
The same happened with the KNIL (Dutch Colonial Army) in the Dutch East Indies. Consisting mainly of indigenous soldiers from the many islands of what is now called Indonesia, the KNIL was mainly a 'police-army' to suppress local unrest. The KNIL was not prepaired to fight the very effective and well-organized Japanese invaders in 1942... The Military aviation of the KNIL had acquired modern fighter aircraft like Curtiss Hawks 75, Curtiss-Wright Interceptors and Brewster Buffalos but lacked the time to train its pilots properly in dogfight tacticts, or rather non-dogfight tactics, leading to heavy losses while fighting against very experienced Japanese fighter aces.
While many of the KNIL indo soldiers deserted after the first fighting encounter with the japanese (and thus were seen to be NOT reliable..as they in majority felt for a form of indonesian independence..)..the same thing didnt happen in India... oh no..it DID happen in MALAYA where LOTS and LOTS of indians all too easily gave up , deserted..etc. and hoped fpor a japanese support for the indian independence... Now the many anglofile history books do not mention this or delve deeper in this..just "indians performed poorly...under poor british command"...but a WILL to fight/resist is not ONLY dependable on good luck and good leadership.. the only difference between the malice of the dutch KNIL forces desertions and that of the indians in Malaya is that the indians DID give a good fight while the hours seem to give them the belief the defense worked...but once the masses of jap bombers, artillery and tanks rolled in, they just the same gave up on the british imperium, only too happy to surrender to the japs.
@@oddballsok The majority did not feel for Indonesian independence, because the native soldiers did not give a damn for Indonesain independence. The independence movement was then only active among some of the elite and students at colleges and universities. That only changed after the war.
Big difference was that the KNIL and Dutch regular forces were much more separated. KNIL/Department of kolonisation for example did decide on it's own armament. Not that more cooperation would have helped as the Dutch regular army totally lacked any experience. The last maior operation was the Belgium independence war, or in the Dutch known as the 10 day campaign, and then you're at the battle of Waterloo. So you can argue the KNIL was the more experienced in 1940, still there was jurisdiction to deploy KNIL troops in the Netherlands .Still viewing itself a colonial power and having a stance of neutrality the Dutch government did not want to import foreign expertise. Indonesia is as diverse as India but with islands, strengthening the local identities even more. But Java has the majority of indonesian population by itself. So it would dominate the new country and in that sense you could talk about the Java war of indepence, but that gives smaller borders and that is not something nationalists are keen on. So other places preferred total indepence or atleast a form of federation. Especially those islands that had been a key recruiting grounds for the KNIL, the Moluccas/Ambon and Timor .
They were, when they were properly led. The British Indian Army got a bad rap during the retreats from Malaya and Burma fighting the Japanese. Poor leadership and tactics exposed the Indian troops mercilessly to high casualty rates as well as other British units, which led to a big drop in morale. Funnily enough, Indian troops performed well in North Africa even during the fighting retreats from Libya into Egypt battling Rommel's Afrika Korps. By the way TIK, I see what you did there in the map! Love it!😆😉
More bad tactics and poor logistics, especially Vs the Japanese. Even the best leadership under arguably Britain's best Generals with Generals William Slim and Harold Alexander couldn't save them in Burma. Indian Army did remarkably well in East African campaigns too, and would grow to be the largest "free" army under arms. There were issues and limits though, like how they all spoke different languages than just English and/or Tamil.
Funny how the Indians copped a poor reputation on the basis of Malaya/Singapore and early Burma… …yet Australian troops who capitulated even worse than Indian soldiers did in Malaya (and whose commander did a runner) were somehow held in high esteem…
@@Colonel_Blimp nobody was to any degree till just before the war. The Japanese organization of light infantry infiltration assault though was exceedingly well suited to rough terrain like jungles.
Hey TIK, I just wanted to tell you that I found your poll about the Eastern front really nice. Please make them more often, it makes for very interesting discussions. Hope your doing well :)
I was a little surprised by the popularity of that one, and the comments were interesting. A lot of people thought that Germany was destined to lose the war. Some interesting counters to that too. Will do more in the future 👍
Fun Fact: Even today the Indian army believes in martial races. Indians from Laddakh, north eastern stats, Punjab etc are still favoured during selection even till this day. An educated male from the plains are usually not favoured in selection. The Army is still colonial, same drills, same difference between officers & regular men.
@TIK it is worth pointing out that normally a Indian Army brigade was made up of two Indian and one British battalions (thus a 'Indian' infantry Division would have six Indian battalions and three British battalions).
Re: Wadi Akarit. I hate to say this but I think Monty has a valid point here. If you think about all the blundering about during Crusader, it was clear that the British command staff was not good at managing a large force. Some units did well while others wandered about or were forgotten. Effectively controlling a large force of men has been a problem for armies since classical times. A more highly structured approach to formations and actions was probably essential for the British Army at that stage of the war. Just because the 4th Indian was capable of more ambitious local actions doesn't mean that the whole army was up to the challenge of following up on that success. Patton, in France, was famous for pushing his army further than he was supposed to go -- letting them advance until the ran out of gas -- which sounds great except that at that point the Allies were having more trouble with logistics than with the Germans. Patton only made the logistical situation worse.
Another problem with the race issue in India is that trying to treat "Indian" like a single race is about as ridiculous as trying to claim that "European" is a race. India is stuffed to the gills with hundreds, possibly thousands of ethnic groups who have happily been oppressing and fighting each other since at least the Early Bronze Age, and probably much longer than that.
There was a comedian on Netflix that used the big differences between northern and southern India in his stand up show. India has many languages with Hindi only as the largest. English is used to communicate to other Indian language speakers, and to not favor any one Indian language over another.
Good point, plus there are six main religions all which have tensions against each other. Arabs invaded Northern India in the 7th Century. Today Islam and Hinduism clash resulting in the destruction of mosques, shrines, and many deaths.
@@metaphorpritam Your correct, I meant to state that tension exists between Islam and Hinduism, not all the religions as a whole. The other religions mentioned above including Christianity seem to get along quite well.
Apologies if I missed it, however I didn't hear Imphal mentioned, which is regarded as the "Stalingrad of the East" by some historians or the impact of Field Marshall William Slim on the effectiveness of the troops in the area - definitely worth a "battlestorm" .
Soldiers and pilots from India 🇮🇳 were fantastic . During the battle of Britain many Indian pilots performed very well . My grandfather met many troops while in North Africa . He was DAF ground crew and was stuck in Tubrok twice .
Funny, just yesterday I read up on Operation U-Go, the Japanse thrust towards Imphal and Kohima in 1944, and the big difference the native Indian troops made. Unfortunately their valor got mostly lost among the other big news during those months: The Normandy landings.
Another great video, TIK! But a question I don’t think anyone’s thought of before: What was the frequency of STOLEN VALOR in war era Germany??? What were the consequences?
Good video Tik. The Indian army proves if you train your men properly they can achieve much. Also don’t be surprised if you receive a visit from the West Taiwanese re-education unit.
I went to a private school in Pakistan and I had a history unit on the British raj. Racism was barely even brought up, economic incentives were the main reason brought up as to why India was conquered. It’s weird how some westerners are assigning racism to the conquest of india, yet the ones who were conquered blatantly disagree, heck it’s common knowledge that it wasn’t due to racism. It’s just weird, these people seem so isolated from the real world. *Cant speak for all the ones in modern India
Glad to hear that you are going back to your series on the Western Desert. Can I strongly recommend that you read Nigel Hamilton's three books on Montgomery before you do so. Not only a refreshing take on the mostly negative American opinions of him but also an excellent account of British tactical doctrine between the wars. After all Montgomery wrote a lot of it. Books are cheap second hand. If you promise to read them I'll buy them for you.
@TIK i think you have an error on the map. Tibet was an independent nation at the time and not under West Taiwan's rule. Though mentioning Taiwan, you should to specify the independent Republic of West Taiwan and the Japanese Colony of Taiwan in any later videos in East Asia. 😉
I liked Slim's Defeat into Victory: Battling Japan in Burma and India. He came across as a normal guy trying to do his best, not some military mastermind.
My dad was In the 5th Scottish parachute battalion in 1944-47 seeing active service in Athens and then deployed to Palestine …he was based along with his battalion at one point in the Gaza Strip. Next to them was a Indian Sikh battalion. I clearly remember him saying “ they were all big bastards and hard too ) …now that was a complement from one elite unite soldier about another elite group !!
The British Officers were more than somewhat bumbling re many issues. One of their most clownish episodes involved a secret trek behind Japanese lines into Burma which had to be aborted when their Gurkhas started drowning at the first river crossing. None of them knew how to swim and no one had thought to enquire into their proficiency in that area. Today there is still a large swimming pool at the Gurkha recruiting facility in India and a few more scattered around Nepal to ensure that check mark never gets lost in the shuffle again. Monty had a great war because he was also a wartime officer in peacetime. The military's tolerance for "more Monties" out in sleepy strategic colonies during the Great Depression was not very high.
Hi TIK, have you seen "Steel Division 2" at all? It is based on Bagration, but a recent DLC introduced the 8th Indian Div for an Italy themed pack. I know you started the channel covering some of your gameplay from stuff years ago, do you still play anything?
Back after a while and so happy you covered India!! Going to catch up with the stalingrad series too. As always a greatly informative video, rn I'm reading about burma from John latimers book. Also, slight correction the North West frontier people are known as Pathans or Pashtuns not panthans lol.
Fascinating.... I wonder if we could convince TIK to do a series on the Italian East Africa saga, after he is done with Stalingrad (yes, this too shall pass). I can't imagine such a large Theater that has less coverage .
Hi Tik, thanks again for this interesting topic. While I was watching the video, I can't help but notice that at 06:17 the northeast corner of the map shows "West Taiwan", which should be either Tibet or China. I find this very interesting. Maybe this is something similar to that in the video game Conflict of Nations: World War 3?
because the nationalists controlled china at that point of time. Nationalist Chinese later moved to taiwan. China calls taiwan West China. So East Taiwan is a tongue in a cheek way of putting it across!
It's a meme meant to piss off the CCP. But it is true that Chiang-Kai Shek's nationalist troops did most of the fighting against the Japanese invasion while the CCP mostly stood back to keep their strength and overtake the weakened nationalists (chasing them out to form Taiwan as noted) once the Japanese had been dealt with
Hey TIK, thanks for another great vid! A fascinating video on WW2 as always :) If I might make a digression, Thanks so much for your vampire economy review vid! Without this I might have fallen into reiman’s trap/own mistakes. As I’m not well versed at all in economics, I was too focussed on trying to figure out and smooth the economics and nearly fell into the trap of not looking up Rieman’s politics and history, I almost trusted him completely. No jokes, no lies, all truth, I thank you for preventing me from forgetting the main, most important part of research: never trust your source completely; look them up and cross reference as much as possible. Once again, thank you TIK. It’s much appreciated
What is that Russia Today article supposed to tell us? You don't seriously suggest it as a valid source for anything, I hope. Also what is that whole discussion about racism about. It sounds like you are trying to justify one people's racism with another. In the 21st century neither colonialism nor it's reasons are really mysterious. It is obvious to all that it was persued as a matter of exploitation in the hope of (though not always successful) economic benefit for the colonising government. Sometimes that included outright slavery, more subtle ways to get labour out of the colonised, sometimes settlement of Europeans, willing or not on their part, a lot of racism, using divisions between groups / divide & conquer, and sending troops from one colony to another and vice versa to reduce the potential of them to join with locals in rebellions or sympathise for their motives. Sometimes this included religious conversions, sometimes genocides, sometimes inclusion of established local elites. Non of that makes colonisation a good thing, neither does "civilising the natives", or anything bad that non-Europeans did, to themselves or others without or prior to colonisation.
@@jussim.konttinen4981 Yes, but the British empire sure wasn't. Quite a number of nations had to fight for their independence from it. If a country voluntarily joins an international organisation today, like the Commonwealth, that's fine, but that hardly changes things to make colonisation a net positive or racism just an unfortunate necessity in bringing civilisation to savages etc.
@@autarchprinceps I thought his tone of voice was sarcastic, but maybe I misunderstood. I'm not English. However, Alexander II is called liberator and Stalin is called tyrant, albeit both were colonizers.
Great history about topic largely unknown to me. Also appreciated your nuances on wartime ethnic relations. Growing up in a part of the US in the 80s that was experiencing its first waves of Asian, Indian and other immigrants, I remember being struck by the fact that whites weren't the only ones with prejudices. There was a lot of black and Asian tension, for example.
Sir they killed 3 million Indians in Bengal just because they don't want to release foods for the locals in World war 2 is this isn't a discrimination. This the way to civil Aisa country a country. India is a country which has very old civilization and culture we don't need anyone else to. Tik please read about Indus valley civilization and Indian vades . Before Commenting on Indian civilization
Hi my grandfather was in the British Indian army and fought in the I and II world War, also my maternal grandfather fought in the IInd world war. There were reverses in Burma but the spirit was revived and the final outcome was success for the troops.
British were in India with objective of Imperialism Period. No need to sugar coat it in any way. Their beliefs regarding race or civics etc were hardly a factor. As in any empire in history.
Some say that Monty during market garden planning let his personal grievances get in the way of carful planning, what you say here about him does add to that.
Every country has bad and good commanders - the bad often get sacked when they are found out, whether American, German, French or Soviet. But in the British army did have a tendency to "protect their reputation" so some bad/mediocre officers stayed in longer. But everyone cannot be excellent.
Can you provide examples? Wavell, Cunningham, Ritchie and Auchinleck were all effectively fired from their commands and shifted elsewhere. Wavell had some great moments as CinC Middle East, but I would agree that he is overrated. Ritchie later became an effective corps commander and Auchinleck wasn’t bad as CinC India. The US general Fredendall was given US Second Army after Kassereine Pass although this was a training command similar to Auchinleck’s job in India without the management of internal security.
@@tommy-er6hh Mark Clark and Stilwell were kept in their positions despite their serious lapses in judgment while Wavell, Cunningham, Ritchie and Auchinleck were all fired and shifted to other jobs when they began to fail. Wavell had some great moments as C in C Middle East but I would agree that he is overrated. Ritchie later became an effective corps commander in Europe and Auchinleck wasn't bad as C in C India. The US general Fredendall was given command of Second Army after Kassereine Pass although this was a training command akin to Auchinleck's post of C in C India without the responsibility of internal security duties. I'm not as familiar with generals in other armies but I'm sure that once you reach a sufficiently high post in any society, it is pretty tough to totally get rid of you, unless you fall out of favor with a tyrant - see Rommel, Kluge, and a bunch of Soviet officers.
To be fair to the Indian army world war II was not strictly speaking their war. Some were fighting on the basis of British promises to give India their freedom after the war. Some as you say fought for other reasons. It must be said that Britain did in fact Grant India they're Independence after the war.
Abolishing slavery isn't the same as not being racist. As a Dutchman, I know how my ancestors treated the people from the then colonies and I can't imagine it being much different in other western European countries. Another thought: there was this former colony of GB that forcefully separated from them in 1776. Who happened to be enthusiastically using slave labour. The deciding political forces from 1776 would still have been in power 30 years later. A convenient way to stick it to the yanks? Not unlikely at all. I am reluctant to believe in politicians making such decisions from the goodness of their hearts. Certainly back when, when such snowflakery didn't exist amiright?
They didn't stick it to the yanks as slavery only ended when the Confederacy surrendered in 1865. The British still traded with the America, & the British Government was sympathetic to the South. Some cotton mills in Lancashire, did stop using Confederacy cotton during the American Civil War, in support of the slaves, even though it did hurt them financially.
Ok so the massive anti slavery movement in Britain was snowflakery. And the anti slavery squadrons of the RN were just there to make money. After the war the Indonesians fought like hell to prevent the Dutch coming back. The reputation of the Dutch as Colonialists is black. Compare it to the welcome the returning British received in Malaya if you think all Colonialists are the same.
@@Colonel_Blimp I didn't know that 'clean colonialism' was a thing 😆 There are really people who think like that? Wow... I guess the Malayan independance was something fashionable, done reluctantly, despite the love for Great Britain? As for the Dutch behaving like beasts in Indonesia: spot on. Here comes an interesting story: the rebels were nationalists who formerly collaborated with the Japanese invaders. Then later turned coat and became communists. Who got massacred by the next government with the help of the CIA and British Intelligence. If you can find out who the good guys are in this story, please do tell. Not one for the tribalists, that's for sure.
@@hardanheavy I would note that Malaysia has a constitutional monarchy closely based on Britain’s. Can you say the same of Indonesia? As for killing communists well a lot of communists had to be killed in Malaya as well.
it would be interesting for you to do a Mad Mike Hoare video, I know its out of your range but the Chad fought in Burma and became the most Based Mercenary ever after that.
My great-grandfather fought in British Army during WWII (he was a Polish legionary) and said that when British troops kept their distance, Indians and Ghukhas were the first who took them under their wing. They fought in African desert side-by-side with them and my great-grandfather had only positives to say about them. And British officers who led them were sometimes quite a characters. One of them, minor Scottish nobleman, WWI cavalry veteran with a lot of medals, cannot remember their native names so he renamed every man in his unit with English names. Which he remembered perfectly. "You need proper English name, my boy. You wear British uniform, you fight as a proper Englishman, so you need a proper name" was his philosophy. It sounds pretty racist, I know but his men loved him, he led by an example, with basket-hilted sword in hand, in full officer dress, under fire. And when in Cairo his staff sergeant and intendant weren't allowed in officer's club because they were "coloured", he said: "What do you mean, these men aren't allowed in? They are the finest British gentlemen I've ever met! They are more British than most of you!" As far as I know, he was lobbing for pensions for Ghurkha veterans after the war.
i wouldn't say racist, definitely imperialist, but not racist.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Chad civic nationalist.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 why racist? it is a matter of combat efficiency and survival on the battlefield. if a commander can't address someone because of difficult to pronounce or memorize names, they are doomed.
Unbelievable...what a mind! the guy assigned names and remembered them after....WOW. id follow a guy like that b4 i followed the ones i had to in the nav.
A British company commander in the Indian Army was expected, with the help of his jemadar, to know the personal details and family situations of every one of his men. He would play to role of "father to his men" to a much greater extent that in a white British unit.
My great uncle was a pilot in India flying missions over the Japanese on that front. He always said that the Indian pilots and ground crews he worked with were unorthodox by US standards, but in their own way, excellent. He said that flying C47s over Burma was really only possible because of the sacrifices Indian workers and troops made.
My grandfather was probably tinkering around those planes as a mechanic, he was initially in RIAF followed by USAAF and then RIAF again in the CIB theatre in WW2, after Independance RIAF became IAF from where he retired as a Warrant Officer having served with IAF in '48, '62, and '65.
If he flew the Hump he flew over my state
Best way I've ever described commonwealth troops we have served with, unorthodox, possibly crazy so they fit right in but always a pleasure to serve with
By unorthodox you mean unconventional methods?
@Arush Reddi yes that is same meaning
Thank you TIK, for making my day with the map showing West Taiwan. Your small digs scattered through more recent videos like easter eggs are most enjoyable.
I missed that. "West Taiwan" is hilarious!
I doubt the people of the prc would like to join the roc
Taìwan or formosa was part of the Japanese empire before and during the war
I was wondering what's going on there.
@@namesurname1869 rather the people of the ccp wouldnt like that. ccp is not china
I believe that by the end of the war, the indian army was actually the largest volunteer army on earth at that point. Pretty interesting history
Oh but apparently, I've been told that the Indians were forced to fight for their slave masters, and that I'm biased for stating otherwise 🙄
@@jstevinik3261 you can read letters at the time, they were proud to serve india, but also their king
@@jstevinik3261 they weren't fringe tbh. Larger than the Indian army has ever been, proportional to population.
@@jstevinik3261armies are never much more more than 1%. i think the fringeness is mainly that they were recruited fron certain parts of the population-punjabis, pathans, gurkhas etc. Other elements specialised at different things e.g. lots of Bengalis in the ICS, Parsis overrepresented in business, Marwari bankers. Pride in the King wasn't a facet of the "fringeness"
@@jstevinik3261 fair
1)Correction - Britain wasn't the first to abolish slavery. The Marathas /Shivaji did it in India in 1600s by decree (26th Aug 1677). British replaced Marathas as rulers of India. Slavery of Hindus was rampant under Mughals (who ruled before Marathas and were still around nominally till 1860s) & Hindu slaves flooded the central Asian slave markets of Bukhara & Samarkand (Hindukush range in Afg, "killer of Hindus" is named due to the massive deaths of Hindus slaves while being transported)
2)Bang on regarding British Indian soldiers. Have family members who served in ww2 - it was seen as a respectable job but without any patriotism whatsoever.
3)Bose is still seen as a national hero in India on par or even greater than Gandhi. Goes to show, your heros can be someone else's villains & vice-versa. He is a similar figure as Sukarno of Indonesia who worked with the Japanese to defeat the Dutch.
I think slavery had already died out in England by early 1100. The judgement in the mid 1700s in Britain that slavery was not allowed harkened back laws that were passed in about 1086. Much earlier than everywhere else on earth.
No, he said England was the first country to abolish slavery AND enforce the abolition of slavery in other countries.
The difference is that Soekarno has the oppurtunity to break free and fully shows he is for an independent state, history doesnt give Bose such chance and so he's remembered horribly outside of India
@@Dan_dan281there was no slavery in India before the ghurid conquest of the chamahanas
Perfectly put
It seems that any soldier, no matter their race, culture, background, etc, given the proper training, equipment, and leadership are all as capable as one another.
Absolutely!
It's almost like we're all human and race is a weak myth
you forgot motivation.
@@SepticFuddy race is hardly a myth. saying its a myth is a 'don't believe your lieing eyes' argument.
its more accurate to say that its irrelevant (and that beliefs and behaviours, be it individual or cultural, is whats actually important) but not that its a myth.
@@SepticFuddy 25 years later, Pakistanis were as effective as Germans
My great grandfather(Indian) also fought in the North African Campaign. He just passed 2 years ago.
'The Indian Army started [the war] as a colonial police force.' Fair enough, but the British Army for most of its existence has been a colonial police force, too. Nice piece of work, great to hear a mention of Indian troops outside the Burma campaign. Thanks TIK.
@Nicolai Myshkin It is not nonsense. Half the regular army was stationed overseas for nearly 200 years. The Indian Army was to take over this role if they had to be withdrawn for a European war. When India got independence, they even considered raising Nigeria troops to police the residual empire.
2:35 TIK are you implying India, one of the 4 cornerstones of civilisation, was ”uncivilised”? Or that Britain was the very country in history to abolish slavery, even though Iceland did it 663 years earlier? Surely that's not the narrative you ascribe to?
I, an Indian, would certainly tolerate British rule when compared to Mughals. Well yes, one of the greatest Indian Empire, the Mauryan Empire, had in fact abolished slavery (as we can see from many accounts of Greek Emissaries). While debt bondage did exist (labour done through a voluntary contract in order to pay off their debt), the concept of selling and buying people just was not there. However this changed when the Mughals invaded, them invading because we were pagans (kuffars as they would calls us) who were "savages" and "subverted" Muslims and they had begun the slave trade and connected India to Slave Markets like the ones of Uzbekistan and Arabia
@@vizprave6721 The Mughals were not the first muslim rulers of India, have you forgotten the Delhi sultanate? And Akbar the great certainly didn't hold hindus to contempt considering his efforts to be an enlightened ruler the general atmosphere of tolerance in his time. Do you have a source to back up non-muslim Indians being sold as slaves? That is the first time I heard that. The reason I find that unlikely is because of the atmosphere of tolerance I mentioned previously and the fact that the hindus where the majority.
@@andro7862 well I made a mistake saying Mughals but ghaznavids and other muslim invaders did. In fact I can trace my roots to the sourashtra region in Gujarat (North India) yet all sourashtra speakers now reside in the South and that was because of the ghaznavids
@@andro7862 while Akbar might've been the most tolerant out of all the other muslim leaders, this is not to say that he was revolutionary and not like another muslim ruler. He was still oppressive and a lot of temple desacrations did happen under his rule
It is never the race or skin colour of troops that determine their effectiveness, But the training, Equipment and officers that command them that determine the ability.
What about the Super Saiyans?
It is really surprising to hear this coming from an European
@@winnietheblue3633 It takes training and skill to become Super Saiyan. Or it use to in Z before Super ruined.
@@PontifexAtharva Why it is just common sense and history supports that view point.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD Europeans in general are very racists to us and same with Americans and Israelis. They think that us having a slightly darker skin than them makes us inferior. I have met many who treat us in this way. Especially in the Himalayas where we live and they come as tourists
I think the Indians played a rather underrated role in defeating the Japanese. They stopped their advance on South Asia, and beat it back with heavy losses.
Heya Bullet, I visited the allies cemetary in Lae PNG, and was astounded by the number of Indian Graves and yet I'd never heard of this campaigning. It's so sad to see the vast cemetary and , I was so impressed by the PNG people's care and respect for the fallen.
✝️
Grats on taking a bit of a topic break from Stalingrad, you’ve earned it. Consistently interesting content and logical analysis are on the menu at TIK.
That West Taiwan is amazing!
-100 social credit score hahaha
I'm looking forward to hearing about the East African campaign. It's almost completely neglected in contemporary ww2 history it seems, along with the early Pacific campaign fought by the Australians
It also gives a nice prelude to Operation Crusader since Cunningham was there, as were several units that took part in Crusader.
Same here. Really looking forward to East African too, when it comes round.
Me too and have Indian Army miniatures to wargame with.
Looking to develop a few scenarios or a campaign for the Indians vs. Italians.
I've read about the battle of the Kokoda Track in New Guinea, and the efforts of the Australian troops there to defend what was basically the last natural obstacle before Australia's northern coast. Definitely deserves a video.
Yes thank you! Always have a juicy project lined up!
Thank you, Tik. I've always enjoyed reading out the Colonial Forces of the Allies during both World Wars. The Indian soldiers that fought during the Second World War against the Axis, in my personal opinion, have been forgotten by the majority in both the UK and India. I doubt many Americans know about their stories either. Thank you for giving them coverage and recognition.
I think everyone just focuses on the Americans in WWII, it's annoying
My Grandfather served with the 18th Indian Infantry brigade. This unit was wiped out in the 1st battle of El Alamein.
Later on he was "sacrificed " as a POW during the SS Scillin incident .
I dont get the sacrificed bit in sicily can you elaborate?
@@pepe_152 The SS Scillin was one of several Italian merchant vessels that were sunk by the Royal Navy, in Mediterranean sea. Unfortunately these ships were packed with allied POW's. The Admiralty knew that these ships were carrying POW's but did not stop the attacks . They knew about the POW's because they were reading the encrypted messages cracked by " Ultra". The work done by " Ultra " was such an important secret to keep that the POW's were sacrificed to keep it so.
There was an investigation after the war and the files were closed with a 50 year restriction. This was done to protect an " Intelligence source ". In 1996 the files were opened and Ultra was named as the source. My Grandmother passed away before 1996, so she never knew why her husband had to perish.
Anyone who has studied the Burma Campaign should have a lot of respect for the valor and skill of the Sepoys.
In a video discussing the effectiveness of Indian troops, there is a distinct lack of mention of the battle of Imphal-Kohima.
Never knew that 1. Britain was concerned about a Russian invasion of India. And 2. That Britain thought the Japanese threat had receded right before the war. Fascinating.
my grandad was based in India before ww2, he was in the army and a very good photographer ,we still have many of his original photos from that time, he got his MC in Burma and an OBE later,
"Before I got bogged down in Stalingrad" - Do you feel like a German now?
Another thing about British India is try as they might the Brits couldn't fully destroy the caste system. The Rajputs were the military caste and traditionally held a lot of power and refused to associate with other castes. The Brits didn't care and formed units from every caste, some of which were partially integrated with others. And since India is actually several countries forced into one colony, many unit recruitment were segregated on region as well. A system which continues even now.
You do understand that by Rajput/Jat caste they mean ethnicity? Right?
Castes didn't matter in British Indian army.
The Mahar regiment consisted of lower caste soldiers who weren't upper caste.
@@metaphorpritam Different castes aren't necessarily different races, they just like to pretend they are. Like how many lower caste people simply conseil their backgrounds and no one ever suspects a thing
@@samsonsoturian6013 LMAO.... I belong to a low-caste too. The thing is caste dynamics in India is a mixture of serfdom, class hierarchy and ethnic boundaries established in feudal India. Even converted Muslims inherited the same structure: Asraf vs Azraf.... Most outsiders don't understand this nuance
@@metaphorpritam it's a scam in order to hog prestigious jobs and force people into b**** tasks.
7:40 Reminds me of the story I read about Dalton Trumbo. In the interwar years and early days of WW2 he was extremely anti war and wrote many books and articles about how war was only caused by capitalism and that a war with Germany was bad. But then Germany invaded the holy land of the Soviet Union and Trumbo, being a dedicated communist, took a complete 180 and started urging people to join the war. He even demanded his publishers to recall his famous anti war book "Johnny's Got his Gun" because he was afraid it would discourage people from enlisting. Also Trumbo and many other communist authors and film producers created a group that tried to ruin the careers of other anti war writers and authors because they weren't communist. Of course the movie Trumbo won't tell you that.
I bet Trumbo is a hero to many in the intelligentsia. Typical commie rat.
Indian troops did really well for where they were at. Nobody did well vs the Japanese early war, so you could hardly ask for better performance. The multitude of languages can't help either. Gen Slim in his memoirs mentions how being confident in speech is all that matters, when aides caught him speaking Gurkhali to Tamil troops.
That Bear Necessities pun was gold
My father fought in the (Canadian) Trois Rivieres Cavalry (a tank regiment ) in Italy. He contracted malaria. A Sikh soldier gave him a big chunk of opium to shove up his ass. Diarrhea from malaria can cause fatal dehydration. The opium is intended as an anti-diuretic..... Some German soldiers had little metal gold stars on their uniforms. My father said they would take some from German POWs and put them on their caps, as a joke on the Americans, who would salute what they thought was a four-star general.
That old malaria cure scam ..... back then 🤔
I fell for that in 87 in Amsterdam.
"No well ? Here come with me."
6'4" Brazilian trans-sexual of African ancestry. I couldn't walk for a fortnight after. Obviously.
Didn't tell a sole. Said I fell on some stairs." .............
(I still get a rose every Valentines day. He/She must be late 70s now.) I must have made an impression.
@@hachwarwickshire1718 Well, I never did look into it to see whether opium could possibly help. But if you have malaria you feel so awful that you'd likely try anything.
Thanks TIK. In the days of recrimination following the July battles in 1942 NZ Brigadier Kippenberger asked his men to follow the example of the Indians, admiring their professionalism and soldierly qualities.
There was a fair bit of secondment from the British to Indian Army involving railway engineers, who kept the supply chains open into Burma. They were very much all in it together, engineering being a brotherhood itself; when trains were derailed in remote locations, they just built new loops round the accident sites and cracked on.
The middle management of Indian railways was traditionally a stronghold of mixed race Anglo-Indians. The Anglo-Indians were a reliable element when the native population became hostile.
@@dianblum5406 not during WW2. My grandfather and 2 of his brothers were middle management in Indian railways during the war and in fact worked to keep the railways running in NE India. By and large the Indian public were not hostile to British even in 1940s even though the Bengal famine caused a lot of dissatisfaction and pain.
Not-so-fun Fact: Indian troops were used even after the Japanese surrender, specifically to quell local, nationalist movements in South-East Asia, such as in Indochina and Indonesia. These forces were comprised of Indian, Gurkhas, and British troops in the British-Indian Army, and around half a dozen or more divisions took part in this.
Actually, they formed the largest component of British Indian forces in the largest battle involving British forces after the Second World War: the Battle of Surabaya, 10-31 November 1945, against Indonesian youths and nationalist troops. About 18 thousand British Indian troops took part in this battle, mostly from the 5th Indian Infantry Division (two brigades and other non-brigade components) and the 49th Indian Infantry Brigade, against around 30 to 50 thousand Indonesian fighters.
There's always another war
Homever. Loyalty of the Pakistanis in the battle is far less than their Indian counterparts. As a decent chunk defected, more so than the Japanese
Hi. Any information about the mutiny of the Indian contingent of the Tokyo garrison ? Or the 1946 Indian Navy rebellion ?
While it might not sound honourable, the intervention in Java against the Indonesian independence movement did save innocent lives. Japan had trained the nationalist Pemoedas as a contingency to maintain their hold on Indonesia, and they were deeply indoctrinated in the same extreme propaganda that the military government of Japan used on its own population. This led to attrocities against Europeans, mixed race Indo-Europeans, anyone suspected of supporting to pre-war colonial authorities, Chinese immigrants, and the Japanese who had armed and trained them.
My grandfather was stationed on Java in the following years, despite having successfully avoided becoming drafted into the German labour program. He was lucky, as he was only in the logistics company and would not be sent out into the countryside. The Indonesian War for Independence would have some very eerie similarities to the later Vietnam war, with the conventional, western army facing guerilla forces who had amongsts the village populations. And, unable to differentiate a rice farmer from a murderous terrorist, the dutch forces applied increasingly harsh strategies to 'deal' with the problem.
A significant number of Japanese troops stayed active in Indonesia after WW2…
About half the post war Indonesian army was trained under Imperial Japanese instructors…
Please note that in addition to martial "peoples" e.g. Sikhs, Pathans, Gurkas, there is a Hindu "warrior caste" (Kshatriyas), who would be primarily eligible for army service.
Problem was they were no longer "martial" in 20th century.
@@aleksazunjic9672 still they were considered martial race along with many
@@darkodonnie2729 As I said, they were no longer martial in 20th century, due to biological mixing that happened trough centuries.
@@darkodonnie2729 What about his mother ? ;) And his father's mother and mother's mother ? Blood gets diluted unless you follow strict caste rules.
No
"West Taiwan" - LOL. That break did you some good, you come back really gunning for all of them. I salute you and your efforts.
I read Montgomery's autobiography when I was 12, I think, and one comment stuck by me. He had created X Corps as an armoured corps, to exploit successful penetrations. His designated commander of X Corps, General Lumsden was a bit underwhelming. Montgomery's words about X Corps still stick with me: "I had a Corps de Chasse[;)] that just wouldn't chasse".
Yes and he never used a corps de chasse again.
21:42 Before you got bogged down in Stalingrad. God I love the meme value of this episode.
"They enlisted for personal gain." Sounds like the motive for most of the people who enlist in the U.S. military. There for the paycheck and skill training, not to fight.
Yeah well we're not at war with anyone so what would you expect? The military has always been essentially a large jobs program, especially in peace time.
@@MintyLime703 You know what I expect? I expect that when someone takes their oath, they do so with a sober recognition of the obligations and risks of military service. That they are there to serve, not exploit. Do you want to argue that that is asking too much? If so, please do not enlist and if you already served, refund all your pay. If modern warfare has taught anything, there is no such thing as a front line, so if you're a mechanic, or clerk, or radar tech, you need to be ready to defend yourself and the people around you even at the cost of your life. Now, f that seems too much for you, then stay the F out of uniform..
@@juliancate7089 Would you go fight in a war between India and Pakistan for no personal gain whatsoever? If not, then why should they. In fact if you read about the Jews in Palestine during WW2, most of them couldn't care less about stopping Hitler and only wanted to get training and weapons to use against Palestinian Arabs. They cared much more about their independence and statehood struggle than a war in Europe, albeit one where Jews were being exterminated.
@@andro7862 Firstly, I am a combat veteran. In every conflict that I participated, I was fighting for the benefit of people who were not Americans. An argument could be made that we were there to advance "American interests", but the reality was that it was about doing what was thought to be the right thing. One group was engaging in criminal and destructives acts that victimized another group for reasons that were not justified. So, not only have I fought in someone else's war, I believe I was doing the right - morally correct and justifiable - thing. Now, if you don't want to fight for someone who cannot help themselves, or you don't want to get killed where you don't believe you have an interest, then stay the F out of the military. No one is forcing you. You don't have the right to join an organization whose sole purpose is to fight and win wars and then lecture the rest of us about how you don't want to participate. Right? Stay the F out of the military. People who join for reasons that do not involve fighting and winning wars, are freeloaders and morally bankrupted. As for your uniquely anti-Semitic re-write of history, it's totally irrelevant to what I've said and I think you're a disgusting racist.
@@juliancate7089 much respect to you as a veteran but don't you realise the Indians would rather want freedom instead of fighting a war far away. The British colonised and have subjugated them for years, you can't expect them to just join up at a moments notice to die for god, queen and country. It seems that you are neither very empathetic nor very logical. The Indians obviously take pride in their culture so has every countrymen till date. I am pretty sure a lot of Indians just wanted to survive, trust me you wouldn't have done any different if you lived there during those times. As for the point you made that indians shouldn't join if they didn't want to, the British empire would have literally perished without the Indian war effort and sacrifices. Pretty sure people might have been conscripted in the Indian army at that time and such records of incidents aren't known today.
The lack of heavy weapons does go a long way to explaining why the Indian divisions had issues fighting the Japanese in 1941-1942. If you lack tanks, AT guns, and heavy artillery, you will have issues fighting a force that has all three and knows how to use them.
Dear TIK. 3 minutes into you're video, and I know I'm going to enjoy it greatly. My Father's Father served in India on the Punjab Rifles and has many stories about his and his families time there.
From what I know of the Indian Army at the time. They were very reliable soldiers and have a good record for themselves. Some black spots on it I know. But dependable soldiers.
"But is this Really the Case?" Well, let's see what the rest of your video says.
Also. 'It ain't half hot' down there you know.
4 minutes in and going to hijack this comment. Its not Subhas "kandra" but "Chandra", as in Charlie.
Well. I certainly found this video very Enlightening. And no, not the Commie kind, don't worry. But heck, you can't escape Politics or Economics in War can you.
I had a basic idea of the Independence movement in India at the time, but never knew how divided it was. Heck. Commies back then are not different than they are now. Or I should just say Socialists. Using that C word as a real Buzzer thing.
And I wasn't aware of how much the Indian army depended on the Punjabs along with these Panthans I never heard about till now. When War calls, you really can't afford to be picky about the barrels you have to scape in order to get manpower needed.
This 4th Indian Division has certainly caught my attention as well. These guys sound like the star league boys of the Indian Army and be very interested in more on them.
And lastly Montgomery... Monty huh... The more I learn on him, and hear being covered on him. The more I really questions was he really as good a General as he's clamed to be.
This business about not getting into the Indian Army because he wasn't good enough or didn't have the grades, and him being bitter about it. Wow, heck of a clash with your ego image huh Monty. And this business about a set piece battle? Sounds more like the sort of thing you do with Muskets & Black Powder than in Modern Warfare. And his bitterness of not getting posted to India and him relegating the 4th Indian to rear echelon stuff when the 8th Army got them back. That spectacular win of theirs against the Axis and creating a 5 mile gap! Heck of an Achievement.
I really need to get on with reading my Burma book where much of this Jungle Warfare stuff took place. Cause while the quality of Divisions varies from Unit to Unit, as it does in every Army. I really do have a high Opinion of the Indian Army. They weren't perfect, and it took some time for them to get good. But they were capable fighters.
Thanks very much for doing this. Looking forward to more of your work soon TIK.
"Punjab Rifles"? Was there such a regiment?
@@markaxworthy2508 My Father's Dad thing says, "2/15th Punjab Regiment". Which I think means, he was a Major, 2nd Battalion of the 15th Regiment of the Punjab Rifles.
No expect in this bear in mind.
@@calumdeighton I think the 15th Punjab Regiment was infantry rather than rifles.
Thank you. I had thought that the Indian army was too little covered in WW2. You have encouraged me to look more into other history of the Indian army, like the Indo Pakistan war of 1971.
Lets call that the War of Independence for Bangladesh
The same happened with the KNIL (Dutch Colonial Army) in the Dutch East Indies.
Consisting mainly of indigenous soldiers from the many islands of what is now called Indonesia, the KNIL was mainly a 'police-army' to suppress local unrest.
The KNIL was not prepaired to fight the very effective and well-organized Japanese invaders in 1942...
The Military aviation of the KNIL had acquired modern fighter aircraft like Curtiss Hawks 75, Curtiss-Wright Interceptors and Brewster Buffalos but lacked the time to train its pilots properly in dogfight tacticts, or rather non-dogfight tactics, leading to heavy losses while fighting against very experienced Japanese fighter aces.
While many of the KNIL indo soldiers deserted after the first fighting encounter with the japanese (and thus were seen to be NOT reliable..as they in majority felt for a form of indonesian independence..)..the same thing didnt happen in India...
oh no..it DID happen in MALAYA where LOTS and LOTS of indians all too easily gave up , deserted..etc. and hoped fpor a japanese support for the indian independence...
Now the many anglofile history books do not mention this or delve deeper in this..just "indians performed poorly...under poor british command"...but a WILL to fight/resist is not ONLY dependable on good luck and good leadership..
the only difference between the malice of the dutch KNIL forces desertions and that of the indians in Malaya is that the indians DID give a good fight while the hours seem to give them the belief the defense worked...but once the masses of jap bombers, artillery and tanks rolled in, they just the same gave up on the british imperium, only too happy to surrender to the japs.
@@oddballsok The majority did not feel for Indonesian independence, because the native soldiers did not give a damn for Indonesain independence. The independence movement was then only active among some of the elite and students at colleges and universities. That only changed after the war.
Big difference was that the KNIL and Dutch regular forces were much more separated. KNIL/Department of kolonisation for example did decide on it's own armament. Not that more cooperation would have helped as the Dutch regular army totally lacked any experience. The last maior operation was the Belgium independence war, or in the Dutch known as the 10 day campaign, and then you're at the battle of Waterloo. So you can argue the KNIL was the more experienced in 1940, still there was jurisdiction to deploy KNIL troops in the Netherlands .Still viewing itself a colonial power and having a stance of neutrality the Dutch government did not want to import foreign expertise.
Indonesia is as diverse as India but with islands, strengthening the local identities even more. But Java has the majority of indonesian population by itself. So it would dominate the new country and in that sense you could talk about the Java war of indepence, but that gives smaller borders and that is not something nationalists are keen on. So other places preferred total indepence or atleast a form of federation. Especially those islands that had been a key recruiting grounds for the KNIL, the Moluccas/Ambon and Timor .
Yeah America did it too with black and Mexican people.
They were, when they were properly led. The British Indian Army got a bad rap during the retreats from Malaya and Burma fighting the Japanese. Poor leadership and tactics exposed the Indian troops mercilessly to high casualty rates as well as other British units, which led to a big drop in morale. Funnily enough, Indian troops performed well in North Africa even during the fighting retreats from Libya into Egypt battling Rommel's Afrika Korps. By the way TIK, I see what you did there in the map! Love it!😆😉
More bad tactics and poor logistics, especially Vs the Japanese. Even the best leadership under arguably Britain's best Generals with Generals William Slim and Harold Alexander couldn't save them in Burma.
Indian Army did remarkably well in East African campaigns too, and would grow to be the largest "free" army under arms. There were issues and limits though, like how they all spoke different languages than just English and/or Tamil.
@@AlphaAurora as TIK said the Indian Army was not trained for jungle warfare in 1942.
Funny how the Indians copped a poor reputation on the basis of Malaya/Singapore and early Burma…
…yet Australian troops who capitulated even worse than Indian soldiers did in Malaya (and whose commander did a runner) were somehow held in high esteem…
@@Colonel_Blimp nobody was to any degree till just before the war. The Japanese organization of light infantry infiltration assault though was exceedingly well suited to rough terrain like jungles.
@@danieleyre8913 Aussies had reputation from Tobruk and the Western Desert I am guessing? That and they fared well at Gemas and Muar river.
Hey TIK, I just wanted to tell you that I found your poll about the Eastern front really nice. Please make them more often, it makes for very interesting discussions.
Hope your doing well :)
I was a little surprised by the popularity of that one, and the comments were interesting. A lot of people thought that Germany was destined to lose the war. Some interesting counters to that too. Will do more in the future 👍
@@TheImperatorKnight tik i love you thank you for making my life less bleak
Fun Fact: Even today the Indian army believes in martial races. Indians from Laddakh, north eastern stats, Punjab etc are still favoured during selection even till this day. An educated male from the plains are usually not favoured in selection. The Army is still colonial, same drills, same difference between officers & regular men.
Agree
But no 'Abide with me' anymore, aparantly.
@@billbolton and need to do more to decolonise the army
@@Valkyrie1941 yes, ,Ae Mere Watan Ke Logon is a good start. I for one would prefer to see, and hear, more traditional instruments on Republic Day.
Everyone with two ounces of brain understands that humans are not equal, and that races (sub -species) exist.
@TIK it is worth pointing out that normally a Indian Army brigade was made up of two Indian and one British battalions (thus a 'Indian' infantry Division would have six Indian battalions and three British battalions).
Re: Wadi Akarit. I hate to say this but I think Monty has a valid point here. If you think about all the blundering about during Crusader, it was clear that the British command staff was not good at managing a large force. Some units did well while others wandered about or were forgotten. Effectively controlling a large force of men has been a problem for armies since classical times. A more highly structured approach to formations and actions was probably essential for the British Army at that stage of the war.
Just because the 4th Indian was capable of more ambitious local actions doesn't mean that the whole army was up to the challenge of following up on that success. Patton, in France, was famous for pushing his army further than he was supposed to go -- letting them advance until the ran out of gas -- which sounds great except that at that point the Allies were having more trouble with logistics than with the Germans. Patton only made the logistical situation worse.
Love how he portrayed Sikkim on the map! Little details like that are what makes quality.
This episode is gold!
Note that Indian divisions were always "brigaded" with British troops 1/3 to ensure their steadiness.
Another problem with the race issue in India is that trying to treat "Indian" like a single race is about as ridiculous as trying to claim that "European" is a race. India is stuffed to the gills with hundreds, possibly thousands of ethnic groups who have happily been oppressing and fighting each other since at least the Early Bronze Age, and probably much longer than that.
There was a comedian on Netflix that used the big differences between northern and southern India in his stand up show.
India has many languages with Hindi only as the largest. English is used to communicate to other Indian language speakers, and to not favor any one Indian language over another.
@@ZER0ZER0SE7EN LMAO.....I don't think that's true.
Good point, plus there are six main religions all which have tensions against each other. Arabs invaded Northern India in the 7th Century. Today Islam and Hinduism clash resulting in the destruction of mosques, shrines, and many deaths.
@@wesleypeters4112 I don't think Buddhists, Jains and Hindus have any problem with each other
@@metaphorpritam Your correct, I meant to state that tension exists between Islam and Hinduism, not all the religions as a whole. The other religions mentioned above including Christianity seem to get along quite well.
The map mistakenly shows West Taiwan controlling Tibet. Tibet is an independent nation.
Apologies if I missed it, however I didn't hear Imphal mentioned, which is regarded as the "Stalingrad of the East" by some historians or the impact of Field Marshall William Slim on the effectiveness of the troops in the area - definitely worth a "battlestorm" .
Thanks - I have been reading about the Battles of Imphal and Kohima so this was good background for books on the subject.
👏🙂
I'm Indian and This is very interesting because I've never really read or heard what India's role was in ww2.
Soldiers and pilots from India 🇮🇳 were fantastic . During the battle of Britain many Indian pilots performed very well . My grandfather met many troops while in North Africa . He was DAF ground crew and was stuck in Tubrok twice .
I laughed so hard when you said you got bogged down in Stalingrad! Good one ;)
It's always amazing to watch your videos, thank you so much for your work!
Funny, just yesterday I read up on Operation U-Go, the Japanse thrust towards Imphal and Kohima in 1944, and the big difference the native Indian troops made. Unfortunately their valor got mostly lost among the other big news during those months: The Normandy landings.
just finished Tower of Skulls part 1 of a 3 part trilogy on the Pacific Campaign concerning Japan it has been a real eye opener.
Love the reference to Nationalist China as West Taiwan. That's awesome TIK.
Another great video, TIK! But a question I don’t think anyone’s thought of before: What was the frequency of STOLEN VALOR in war era Germany??? What were the consequences?
Good video Tik. The Indian army proves if you train your men properly they can achieve much. Also don’t be surprised if you receive a visit from the West Taiwanese re-education unit.
I went to a private school in Pakistan and I had a history unit on the British raj. Racism was barely even brought up, economic incentives were the main reason brought up as to why India was conquered. It’s weird how some westerners are assigning racism to the conquest of india, yet the ones who were conquered blatantly disagree, heck it’s common knowledge that it wasn’t due to racism. It’s just weird, these people seem so isolated from the real world.
*Cant speak for all the ones in modern India
I thought Britain took India because of it's location near China and far east trade lanes, And the fact It was a rich place to draw resources from.
Glad to hear that you are going back to your series on the Western Desert. Can I strongly recommend that you read Nigel Hamilton's three books on Montgomery before you do so. Not only a refreshing take on the mostly negative American opinions of him but also an excellent account of British tactical doctrine between the wars. After all Montgomery wrote a lot of it.
Books are cheap second hand. If you promise to read them I'll buy them for you.
Great books, I hate how people have a negative opinion of him, caused mainly by the Americans though
@TIK i think you have an error on the map. Tibet was an independent nation at the time and not under West Taiwan's rule. Though mentioning Taiwan, you should to specify the independent Republic of West Taiwan and the Japanese Colony of Taiwan in any later videos in East Asia. 😉
I loved the front cover of the "Jungle Book." Priceless!
I liked Slim's Defeat into Victory: Battling Japan in Burma and India. He came across as a normal guy trying to do his best, not some military mastermind.
Best WWII channel on tube, good work
Auchinleck is massively underrated in the popular mind.
My dad was In the 5th Scottish parachute battalion in 1944-47 seeing active service in Athens and then deployed to Palestine …he was based along with his battalion at one point in the Gaza Strip. Next to them was a Indian Sikh battalion. I clearly remember him saying “ they were all big bastards and hard too ) …now that was a complement from one elite unite soldier about another elite group !!
The British Officers were more than somewhat bumbling re many issues. One of their most clownish episodes involved
a secret trek behind Japanese lines into Burma which had to be aborted when their Gurkhas started drowning at the first
river crossing. None of them knew how to swim and no one had thought to enquire into their proficiency in that area.
Today there is still a large swimming pool at the Gurkha recruiting facility in India and a few more scattered around Nepal to ensure that check mark never gets lost in the shuffle again. Monty had a great war because he was also a wartime officer in peacetime. The military's tolerance for "more Monties" out in sleepy strategic colonies during the Great Depression was not very high.
Incredible timing TIK, for me in particular. Just sat down with tea and biscuits and checked youtube!
Hi TIK, have you seen "Steel Division 2" at all? It is based on Bagration, but a recent DLC introduced the 8th Indian Div for an Italy themed pack.
I know you started the channel covering some of your gameplay from stuff years ago, do you still play anything?
"The Jungle Book gave them the bear necessities"......Love it!
Back after a while and so happy you covered India!! Going to catch up with the stalingrad series too. As always a greatly informative video, rn I'm reading about burma from John latimers book.
Also, slight correction the North West frontier people are known as Pathans or Pashtuns not panthans lol.
british had some beef with pathans in north waziristan for a long time
Fascinating....
I wonder if we could convince TIK to do a series on the Italian East Africa saga, after he is done with Stalingrad (yes, this too shall pass).
I can't imagine such a large Theater that has less coverage .
Hi Tik, thanks again for this interesting topic. While I was watching the video, I can't help but notice that at 06:17 the northeast corner of the map shows "West Taiwan", which should be either Tibet or China. I find this very interesting. Maybe this is something similar to that in the video game Conflict of Nations: World War 3?
because the nationalists controlled china at that point of time. Nationalist Chinese later moved to taiwan. China calls taiwan West China. So East Taiwan is a tongue in a cheek way of putting it across!
@@AbhayPeshin most mainland Chinese don't call it west China, only province Taiwan. This is very new to most Chinese.
It's a meme meant to piss off the CCP. But it is true that Chiang-Kai Shek's nationalist troops did most of the fighting against the Japanese invasion while the CCP mostly stood back to keep their strength and overtake the weakened nationalists (chasing them out to form Taiwan as noted) once the Japanese had been dealt with
@@AbhayPeshin I speak chinese and i never heard of referring taiwan as “west china”, where did you get that from
@@SepticFuddy Chiang will never want to form a new country, China is his country. It was a civil war.
Having spent my childhood in USA, it was spirit lifting to hear Armues from India played Master role in British victories.
Hey TIK, thanks for another great vid! A fascinating video on WW2 as always :)
If I might make a digression, Thanks so much for your vampire economy review vid! Without this I might have fallen into reiman’s trap/own mistakes. As I’m not well versed at all in economics, I was too focussed on trying to figure out and smooth the economics and nearly fell into the trap of not looking up Rieman’s politics and history, I almost trusted him completely.
No jokes, no lies, all truth, I thank you for preventing me from forgetting the main, most important part of research: never trust your source completely; look them up and cross reference as much as possible.
Once again, thank you TIK. It’s much appreciated
p.s. to remedy the situation I decided to buy and read Sowell's basic economics, a great read so far :)
What is that Russia Today article supposed to tell us? You don't seriously suggest it as a valid source for anything, I hope.
Also what is that whole discussion about racism about. It sounds like you are trying to justify one people's racism with another.
In the 21st century neither colonialism nor it's reasons are really mysterious. It is obvious to all that it was persued as a matter of exploitation in the hope of (though not always successful) economic benefit for the colonising government. Sometimes that included outright slavery, more subtle ways to get labour out of the colonised, sometimes settlement of Europeans, willing or not on their part, a lot of racism, using divisions between groups / divide & conquer, and sending troops from one colony to another and vice versa to reduce the potential of them to join with locals in rebellions or sympathise for their motives. Sometimes this included religious conversions, sometimes genocides, sometimes inclusion of established local elites.
Non of that makes colonisation a good thing, neither does "civilising the natives", or anything bad that non-Europeans did, to themselves or others without or prior to colonisation.
The Commonwealth has long been a voluntary organization. Why would you join it? For example, Myanmar seceded in 1948.
@@jussim.konttinen4981 Yes, but the British empire sure wasn't. Quite a number of nations had to fight for their independence from it.
If a country voluntarily joins an international organisation today, like the Commonwealth, that's fine, but that hardly changes things to make colonisation a net positive or racism just an unfortunate necessity in bringing civilisation to savages etc.
@@autarchprinceps I thought his tone of voice was sarcastic, but maybe I misunderstood. I'm not English. However, Alexander II is called liberator and Stalin is called tyrant, albeit both were colonizers.
Great history about topic largely unknown to me. Also appreciated your nuances on wartime ethnic relations. Growing up in a part of the US in the 80s that was experiencing its first waves of Asian, Indian and other immigrants, I remember being struck by the fact that whites weren't the only ones with prejudices. There was a lot of black and Asian tension, for example.
Documentary's on the taking of Monte Casino in Italy mention the effectiveness of Indian troops in the battle.
6:25 Great to finally see some representation for West Taiwan
1:25 => "I saw the tail!"
"Ahn... that's not a tail."
(Sorry. I don't resist awful jokes)
Sir they killed 3 million Indians in Bengal just because they don't want to release foods for the locals in World war 2 is this isn't a discrimination. This the way to civil Aisa country a country. India is a country which has very old civilization and culture we don't need anyone else to. Tik please read about Indus valley civilization and Indian vades . Before Commenting on Indian civilization
Great video TIK. Great to see you covering the Indian Army role in WWII. It's something which is often forgotten when people discuss the war.
Sad but true... All armies of WW2 suffered from Racism, Arrogance , and Ethnocentrism .
It would be interesting if you apply your methods and style to a east Asian front battle in a Battlestorm.
Hi my grandfather was in the British Indian army and fought in the I and II world War, also my maternal grandfather fought in the IInd world war. There were reverses in Burma but the spirit was revived and the final outcome was success for the troops.
British were in India with objective of Imperialism Period.
No need to sugar coat it in any way.
Their beliefs regarding race or civics etc were hardly a factor.
As in any empire in history.
They were there to stop the French Duch and Spanish from oppressing the Local Tribes and just created India 🇮🇳 as a consequence 😊
@@hachwarwickshire292 Also killed 3 million Bengalis, looted 45 trillion and Divided India as a consequence 😊😊.
@@wantsomecandies73 India was divided by the invasion of Islam. Then they divided her again despite British efforts to keep her together.
@@hachwarwickshire292 British policy of divide and rule significantly contributed to India's partition
Some say that Monty during market garden planning let his personal grievances get in the way of carful planning, what you say here about him does add to that.
I haven't even watched this video yet, but the question should be why were British commanders so ineffective.
What? Commanders like Slim? Messervy?
Every country has bad and good commanders - the bad often get sacked when they are found out, whether American, German, French or Soviet. But in the British army did have a tendency to "protect their reputation" so some bad/mediocre officers stayed in longer.
But everyone cannot be excellent.
Can you provide examples? Wavell, Cunningham, Ritchie and Auchinleck were all effectively fired from their commands and shifted elsewhere. Wavell had some great moments as CinC Middle East, but I would agree that he is overrated. Ritchie later became an effective corps commander and Auchinleck wasn’t bad as CinC India. The US general Fredendall was given US Second Army after Kassereine Pass although this was a training command similar to Auchinleck’s job in India without the management of internal security.
@@tommy-er6hh Mark Clark and Stilwell were kept in their positions despite their serious lapses in judgment while Wavell, Cunningham, Ritchie and Auchinleck were all fired and shifted to other jobs when they began to fail. Wavell had some great moments as C in C Middle East but I would agree that he is overrated. Ritchie later became an effective corps commander in Europe and Auchinleck wasn't bad as C in C India. The US general Fredendall was given command of Second Army after Kassereine Pass although this was a training command akin to Auchinleck's post of C in C India without the responsibility of internal security duties. I'm not as familiar with generals in other armies but I'm sure that once you reach a sufficiently high post in any society, it is pretty tough to totally get rid of you, unless you fall out of favor with a tyrant - see Rommel, Kluge, and a bunch of Soviet officers.
"History repeats itself" - Germany found itself bogged down in Stalingrad - and now so does TIK !
9:40 Funny how security measures sometimes produce the very war they were intended to prevent.
"Before I got bogged down in Stalingrad"
I see what you did there.
Before viewing: “Is TIK going to include the Gurkhas”.
I did mention them briefly
The Gurkha museum at Winchester is outstanding. really worth a visit.
BI army lost effectivness by 1946 when the army and navy on their own initiative went on strike. The only reason why India got freedom!
To be fair to the Indian army world war II was not strictly speaking their war. Some were fighting on the basis of British promises to give India their freedom after the war. Some as you say fought for other reasons. It must be said that Britain did in fact Grant India they're Independence after the war.
Britain didn't have the power left to hold onto India after WW2 so they had no choice but to leave India
Getting bogged down in Stalingrad, I guess the Germans have a similar experience ;-). Great work again TiK
Bogged down in Stalingrad. Nice pun Tik! I love it!
Abolishing slavery isn't the same as not being racist. As a Dutchman, I know how my ancestors treated the people from the then colonies and I can't imagine it being much different in other western European countries.
Another thought: there was this former colony of GB that forcefully separated from them in 1776. Who happened to be enthusiastically using slave labour. The deciding political forces from 1776 would still have been in power 30 years later. A convenient way to stick it to the yanks? Not unlikely at all. I am reluctant to believe in politicians making such decisions from the goodness of their hearts. Certainly back when, when such snowflakery didn't exist amiright?
They didn't stick it to the yanks as slavery only ended when the Confederacy surrendered in 1865. The British still traded with the America, & the British Government was sympathetic to the South. Some cotton mills in Lancashire, did stop using Confederacy cotton during the American Civil War, in support of the slaves, even though it did hurt them financially.
Ok so the massive anti slavery movement in Britain was snowflakery. And the anti slavery squadrons of the RN were just there to make money.
After the war the Indonesians fought like hell to prevent the Dutch coming back. The reputation of the Dutch as Colonialists is black. Compare it to the welcome the returning British received in Malaya if you think all Colonialists are the same.
@@Colonel_Blimp I didn't know that 'clean colonialism' was a thing 😆 There are really people who think like that? Wow... I guess the Malayan independance was something fashionable, done reluctantly, despite the love for Great Britain?
As for the Dutch behaving like beasts in Indonesia: spot on. Here comes an interesting story: the rebels were nationalists who formerly collaborated with the Japanese invaders. Then later turned coat and became communists. Who got massacred by the next government with the help of the CIA and British Intelligence.
If you can find out who the good guys are in this story, please do tell. Not one for the tribalists, that's for sure.
@@hardanheavy I would note that Malaysia has a constitutional monarchy closely based on Britain’s. Can you say the same of Indonesia? As for killing communists well a lot of communists had to be killed in Malaya as well.
This video is another job well done, really highlights how little I know about the topic definitely inspired me to research more.
This man is the best on ww2, by miles
it would be interesting for you to do a Mad Mike Hoare video, I know its out of your range but the Chad fought in Burma and became the most Based Mercenary ever after that.