Bart Ehrman's Personal Beliefs Interview
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Bart provided Scott Burdick an opportunity for a short interview about his personal beliefs and religious experiences. Recorded at the FFRF (Freedom From Religion's) Raleigh Regional Convention 2014 conference held in the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel, Raleigh N.C. on May 2-3, 2014. The interview will be part of FFRF and the Dawkins Foundation's Openly Secular coalition campaign. Presented by Triangle Freethought Society.
Video discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/...
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Scott Burdick. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this video without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and Scott Burdick is strictly prohibited.
I'm a Muslim but I really enjoy listening to your lectures and find them very thoughtful and inspiring.
Also I like the way you label yourself as both athiest and agnostic...I think it reflects that despite everything you have been through you remain humble in your understanding of the greater world we live in.
Respect to you, sir!
I can relate to him. One of the most honest man i know.
So, you understand the things on the material and carnal things only.
Like Bart, you cannot receive the things of the Spirit.
@@Iampowerful8 That's an incredibly arrogant thing to assume. Who are you to accuse someone of not "receiving things of the spirit" when you don't even know the persons you're addressing?
Christianity is coercion. Threatening to torture people with fire because they don't believe in you is not giving somebody a free will choice. If I put a gun to your head and demand you love you me that is not free will.
As a Christian (Fundamentalist), I would say I like Bart Ehrman. I enjoy his books, am subscribed to his blog, and agree with some of his concluding statements about Pastors in this video.
Then you sound like a Moderate in your "type/manner of thinking" - you exhibit a much greater harmony and balancing of applied thought.
A fundamentalist has little room for empathy with those whom have different opinions -
I'm a Christian, a Moderate - and much more Spiritual in my idea of the subject of God - Jesus and our Souls -
I feel the Gnostic Texts have much more authentic messages than those approved by 4th Century Constatine Priests -
...and I'm Catholic - although I suppose I would be called a more Gnostic Catholic in search of a Church where I could learn and practice "my Faith"
Peace be with you -
I submit to you Dr, Ehrman that you are a agnostic atheist.
*****
Many reasons. For one it's more intellectually honest. For another, once someone realizes then it clarifies what they truly think about many, many issues.
*****
I think he says he is an agnostic.
*****
Ha! Very good. Thank you for correct me!! Ehrman does get it!
he is a comedian.
"I didn't believe it anymore," means atheism. Atheism deals with belief. Agnosticism means knowledge. Knowledge is a subset of belief. Atheists are also agnostic. Agnostic didn't mean: "I'm not sure." He said that he is atheist, so he's being honest. We atheists don't believe, but we don't know either. Interesting explanation, though.
Knowledge is not a subset of belief. You can believe falsely but you cannot know falsely.
So Bart is what is called an agnostic atheist, meaning he does not believe in god but doesn't say with authority that there is no god. That is the position of myself and most.atheists.
I once tried to guestimate how many Atheists I know and arrived at arround the 2000 mark (on and offline). Of those 2000-ish Atheists, a grand total of ... two ... were gnostic Atheists. all the others were, as you said, agnostic Atheists.
james.. some prick told me im wrong about the original king james bible and gave me a link to a discussion of how the "new" version is stupid. and im watching this video saying... so a agnostic humanist is qualified to change the bible?
Da420Milkman Do you think Bart Ehrman changed the Bible?
Alan S. No. I do not believe that a theistic, personal god is possible. All it means by being agnostic atheist is simply that I realise that I have no concrete evidence to make the claim that there is are no gods. Odd that we atheists can acknowledge the limitations of what we can and cannot know with certainty but you never hear from any "agnostic theists", which has to be the case for all theists because if you had concrete evidence that would prove a god exists atheists would no longer exist.
No Atheism is separate from Agnosticism. What you are doing is word play. Atheism is a disbelief in God. Agnosticism is a complete unsurety in the existence of God, not a disbelief.
I have wondered about Mr. Ehrman and I'm relieved that he has made his position clear. I agree with his approach to end the delusion of the immaterial/supernatural realm. Education is the only sure way of advancing critical thinking to a point where we can truly understand our place in the universe. GROG
Open and honest. Thank you Mr Ehrman for all your scholarly work.
Any time you say God is real you must produce evidence , just cause you feel it in your heart doesn't mean God is real it just means you are wishful thinking .
Real things existed before the scientific method was formulated or experiments performed. This is nonsense. I listened to Ehrman's explanation of the Trinity and I found it lacking precisely because he uses the lack of definitive Biblical text as evidence. There are subtle vectors of inference in our human experience that point to things that are imprecise yet still "true". On this journey mankind's ability to express the concept improves. In that, however, one can say that the earliest "revelations" were not sufficient to unequivocally define the nature of some truths.
It is easy to claim one to be agnostic or atheist, but Mr. Bart Ehrman has not explained meaning and purpose of life or eternity.
Mike Liberty I agree with you that i have to have evidence which I do have. I don't think it's my job to convince you, but I know it's your job to search for your own satisfaction evidence. we can't sit back and wait for evidence to come to us.
Before discussing evidence we must acknowledge the bias/worldview:
People are either naturalists/materialists, monists, or dualists.
The worldview does the interpretation for us.
Evidence: the universe had a beginning. Time, space, matter came into existence out of nothing.
What do we make of this fact?
The answer will be based on my prior commitment or worldview.
Evidence: life comes only from life, the so called law of biogenesis. Abiogenesis is therefore false.
What do we make of this fact?
Evidence: Information and semiotics are real yet non material.
What do we make of this?
Information exists inside the very complex biological systems. The best of human engineering cannot even approach the nano technology of living organisms.
What do we make of this?
Evidence: Mathematically precise laws of physics and chemistry exist.
What do we make of the source of these laws?
Evidence: many living organisms use advanced quantum mechanics and advanced mathematics in order to live.
How do we account for this?
Laws of logic are abstract and non material. Where do these laws come from?
Our worldview must be able to adequately account for these things.
Does the blind, godless universe come out of nothing and eventually learn quantum mechanics on its own and blindly and randomly produce non human creatures who use nano technology far surpassing human technology?
and then eventually the human beings have discovered calculus and square root of -1 and imaginary numbers, which are so important in quantum mechanics. And so few people from 7 billion have a solid grasp of advanced quantum mechanics and mathematics.
It takes a PhD in these areas and much research to understand such advanced subjects, yet the blind godless universe could produce tiny creatures who use quantum mechanics, calculus without PhD before quantum mechanics and calculus was discovered.
Isn't it amazing blind Faith!!!!!
I have the same issue. Human suffering.
Dr. Ehrman with all respect you proofed what 2.2 billion people ( Christianity ) believe is all false, but you can't be Agnostic yet because there is another 5 billion people in the world, you have to start deep honest study like you did before ( say one year to search 1.7 billion Islam ) and another one year to other religions, after all that you can choose.
Right, that's what you and millions of others have done-- done a deep study of various religions before choosing. For example, you didn't just think about the religions of today-- perhaps those are just trendy. You also checked out Zeus, Zoroastrianism, the religions of the Pacific Islands, and shamanistic religions of Asia and Africa. Only after all that diligent study of dozens, no hundreds, of religions, are you authorized to choose. Right. And pigs fly!
Ya'know, I really respect Bart, but how are you gonna act surprised that there's suffering in the world when your religion literally considers those who suffer in the name of the Lord the most righteous?
The point being an all powerful all good God would stop suffering
You say you're not interested in converting anyone to your beliefs right before you say you're just trying to get people to be more thoughtful about their beliefs. Isn't that in itself
a conversion?
No, he's just asking them to question their beliefs, but he didn't say to them "Turn away from God" or "Convert to Islam", he was just asking them to honestly question their beliefs and it's up to them whether they would stay a believer or non believer
Bart is one of the most benighted person who never really read the scripture. He doesn't know squat about the History of Christianity either. I freely exclaim this. Are you open to debate? I wont hold my breath. ~Dr. Reverend C. Diggs. Triple Doctorate (Science, History and Theology).
Gee, I didn't know that Trump University also offered a doctorate in theology. Impressive!
I gather his logic fairly
With all due respect Mr Ehrman I think what you are is an Egoist. You put the greatest respect, praise and admiration in your Ego. Man is full of Ego. Man feels that it has the undeniable right to question its Creator. I do not mean question if God is real or what is true about God but question God's actions. Your belief system is much in line with people of the past including satanist who felt that God was wrong. That God was wrong when God gave more to someone then to another and man argued that since they were superior to others that God blessed more than them that proved God was flawed and wrong. But wouldn't the mere fact that because a human decided to turn on his Creator and decide to no longer worship and praise God because he did not agree with God in who God chose to bless, be in fact proof that they were wrong and were not worthy of the blessings of God that they were jealous of? God created every creature and knows its heart but it is only the Ego or men and demons that has the unmitigated gal to say that God is in error.
You sir are missing a quality called respect. A good person gives respect where it is due but and Egosist does not. God created you and everything that you see. God is the reason you are breathing at all. There is nothing in creation that deserves more respect then God but you with your enormous Ego feel you have the right to question God's actions.
You say what changed your faith is suffering in the world. This is not an error on the part of God. Perhaps you thought if God created man that God has the obligation to care for man as one who care for their fish in a fish tank. If you have a fish take then you should make sure that the fish are as comfortable as possible because you put them there. But one thing you never gave the fish is free will. If you allowed them to do what they want you would not put a lid on the take and the fish thinking they knew more than you would jump out and if you did not intervene then they would dry up on the floor and die. Satanist believe that God kept Adam and Eve captive in the garden and that it was satan that set them free with knowledge. But there was no suffering in the garden. They had everything that they could want and need and they had free will. So this suffering that you speak of that makes you question your Creator was in fact a choice. It was part of free will. Man was created with only one purpose that we love God. That can not happen without free will. It can not happen without trust. When God gave Adam and Eve everything they could want and need it was them that both chose to believe satan one who had already been cast out for questioning God and failing to bow down before man when God created Adam and he was the only creature in creation to do so. So while they were in need of nothing and had no suffering they chose to listen to satan when he said there was something more, that they could be gods and God was keeping that information from them. So the fact that there is suffering in the world is not because of God but because of the choices of man.
If you have ever spent time around a toddler you will see the perfect example of how Ego works in man. A toddler knows nothing but those who care for them. Those who provide everything they need for their comfort and happiness. But if you tell a toddler " don't touch that, it is hot". They understand you. They won't do it while you are looking. But when you turn away they will touch it and they will get burned. They want to know for themselves what this thing is that you are preventing them from touching does. The fact that you care for and provide for them means nothing. Their ego drives them to touch it. Those innocent babies are still humans with the same ego as everyone else.
Once I was with a 3 year old working in my yard. This was a very mischievous child who listened to no one and had to be watched constantly. She was much wiser than her years though. She kept picking up these big rocks and I kept telling her to put them down that she was going to drop them on her foot. I took them away from her time and time again until on the last time I told her to put it back and when she went to put it back she dropped it on her foot and broke her toe. Do you know what she cried out to me? This is your fault. You should have taken the rock away from me. In guilt I have to agree I wished that I had. But it was in no way my fault that she broke her toe it was 100% her fault because she refused to listen to what I told her. She refused to believe that I was right and she was wrong. But when it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt she followed her Ego and blamed me. She grew up to be a bigger version of that child. She never listened to anyone and made everyone's life miserable. But by your way of thinking this was most likely not her fault or even my fault but was God's fault after all God made the rocks right? God could have made everything round and light and soft.
The next argument people give is why should we have to suffer for what Adam and Eve did? That is not fair or right. Show me one person on this planet now or in history who has never sinned aside from the Messiah. Show me one person who never got burned on a stove or hurt doing something they were told not to. We all have ego. We all have a voice driving us to good and one driving us to evil. What I believe makes man so special in all of creation is that there are a small amount of them that even thought they have knowledge, understanding and free will. Even though sin makes life so much more fun and enjoyable. Sin lets them control things from time to time. Even with all that there are some who after all that knowledge decide to give up whatever control they have and offer it as a gift to the All Might God as an offering of love and adoration to a being who is in need of nothing. By their own free will, they chose to love, adore and respect God in a world where very few do. That is why I believe that when God created man that he commanded all to bow down before Adam. The seed of what of what the All-Knower knew would produce something beautiful. But only God knows for sure. I believe that God does not guide the defiantly disobedient and it is probably that reason that you have not had miracles and proof in your life to guide you to the truth.
You say that you are not trying to convert people to your way of thinking but that is an out and out lie you dedicate your life to trying to lead people away from God.
+Jeni Gopro How can you be sure that God in your experience is the God mentioned in the Bible? How can you be sure that other religions don't have a similar spiritual experience as yours?
+Kral St this is just great!!!! I love it. people are so sure that their God is the one but they forget to realize that there are other religions where followers feel the same. So whenever christian tells me that at least he or she is safe because if there is no God, nothing happens to him/her, but if there is their God they will be saved and I will burn in hell. Well to that, my response is exactly the same as you mentioned. How do you know that your God is the true God. Maybe you are just making the true God angry because you follow the wrong religion and you will suffer much more than me who stood somewhere in the middle of all this.
+Kral St I never said anything about the Bible in my Post. There is only One God. One creator of the heaven and the earth. But not everyone worships God. Some worship satan some worship greek gods that never existed some people worship the earth some worship cows. I do not believe in converting people to my religion. I believe that is not my place that God guides who he wishes. And before you think that means something other than what it does. Let me give you a parable: I am not a killer. Aside from someone killing by child in front or me I am likely not to ever kill someone. But lets say someone steals everything I own and burns my house down. I am not likely to kill them but I am also not likely to yell "Hey" if they are about to step out in front of a bus. I believe that you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe.
So you just assume I follow the Bible and am Christian and then +Simon Zajicek comes in and backs you up with the same judgement. Did my defending God with my comment to the creator of the video offend you in some way that cause you both to come and make negative comments against me for being a Christian and following the Bible? neither of which is true, you merely incorrectly assume.
The consensuses of both your comments is that my God (God of the Bible according to your assumption) is the wrong god and who am I to say which god it right and which is not. But you are both clearly stating here that I am wrong for believing my God is correct. That is the definition of a Hypocrite. You are accusing me of telling people my God is right and that anyone who does not believe what what I do it wrong. My post was not directed to someone who believes that their god is right it was directed at an atheist disrespecting the Creator and trying to convince people their is no God.
I find that under the circumstances than anyone who would chose to make derogatory comments against someone Defending God over someone who is disrespecting God without bring any religion into the fold while doing it clearly does not worship the Creator and is just trolling.
Jeni Gopro I did never accuse you on anything negative, and I don't understand how you could felt offended by my post as to reply me that way :) My personal believe is that the Creator doesn't need to be defended and doesn't need to worshiped. Anything does is just a trickster God, not the Creator. A serious problem of humans, they can allegedly love God while hating each other because of their different notions about God. I wish that you may grow spiritually.
Simon Zajicek Thank you :) btw I don't think human can do anything to make God angry. Good or evil is part of life experience for us to grow, love or hate another is actually the same as love or hate yourself, everything is connected in the creation and we reap what we sow. Religions, while they can benefit humans in some way, they are also very dangerous. If you haven't, try to practice meditation, it will help you a lot in understanding and life-fulfillment.
An honest man will be an honest man no matter what he/she it believe...
Omg. When I hear this guy's story, I just wonder, am I on my way to becoming an agnostic? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ahhh someone else looking into the reason for suffering. Thank you for your work 🙏.
That's because you still carnal.
You can only see things by means of the flesh.
You cannot see in the realm of the spirit.
@Jose Lozano
I like how Christians think that if they say something, no matter how intrinsically meaningless, in an authoritative, judgmental and pretentious way, somehow what they have said is important or insightful.
Philosophically, if there's suffering in the world, it doesn't mean GOD doesn't exist but you could say, "why God allows suffering to his creation? / is that a merciful God? Etc"
If someone's father is a wealthy man but he is suffering , it doesn't mean his father doesn't exist.
If a machine is not working properly, that does not mean the machine has no creator.
Not even Christian's can hate this guy. Just shows you that hes sincere and not just doing this for money or something.
I can respect him because he doesn't bash believers and name call.
Leave that to me I will bash them . I enjoy to make them waste there time and run in circles trying to convert me and save me
Only Jesus can save !! Not any of "us Christians"
@@timsharpe6652 He couldn't do it on my salary!
@@easterbuny2226 You do know the difference between "their" and "there", right? Honestly, that drives me up the wall.
@@Thagomizer Goodness,you meen their is a difference ?
Churches are franchises. Like KFC. Truth is not a very hot product to sell. What people want to hear, and a very simple and smooth path is what sells. It must not take too much effort, not demand that people give too much up. So to teach people that they must believe in a mantra and that will give them an (unearned) moral superiority over others (get rich quick, become holy instantly... same method) is what sells. Add flashy marketing material, impressive sounding programs and they are in business and rake in the money.
If you actually examine the Bible, or any other religious text objectively, it is difficult not to become an Agnostic.
Everyone in this comment section heard "You're going to hell if you don't accept Jesus Christ" from Christians
Yes brother I am Muslim and accept Jesus is prophet and servant of God
@@faithfultheology you're *
@@abduschowdhury4886 No Jesus Christ is God. He was in the beginning and is and will come.
@@mikecampbell5953 The re-telling of the ancient virgin birth, death and resurrection story does not make J.C real ...... just like his predecessors in the same story were not. No one is coming.
my opinion is that Bart learned the bible, studied and looked for God and couldn't find God, Bart looked at everything on history and everything he could find but it didn't ad up, I'm not as smart as Bart but i watched many of his video's looking to find God, Jesus , from a stand point of a professional and this is what all the logic is pointing to , and I'm disappointed that this is what it looks like it might be, i want a true God just like everyone but this is all i see, i hope there is an afterlife for all of us but i can't find God either
Having read several of his books I agree totally with his view of the Bible and in particular the Gospels. Personally I do believe there is a creator and that we are all part of the creator's energy. I also believe that the teachings of the great masters are far more important than the 'what can I get out of it' philosophy which seems to characterize traditional religious dogma. It's almost as if the teachings of Christ ,Moses, Mohamed, Krishna and Buddha are a nuisance to their most fanatical followers.
What's ironic is that most atheists I know were the most devout. I now understand. Most do not know nor care what they believe but some want to know more - Jesus, origins, texts. And all those nagging questions: What about all the prophecies of an imminent return, why did Jesus need a religion, why reveal salvation to a tiny desert tribe, Why did the first writer (Paul) know nothing about Jesus - virgin birth, baptism, miracle or parable? Why don't miracles occur anymore?
It starts peeling away - discarding OT myths (talking animals, Eden, flood, etc) then NT miracles (floating away, turning water to wine, walking on water, etc) then the idea that the Bible is without error then....
You can be agnostic and atheist. I am. I can't prove there's not a God. But I live my life as if there is no God. Because the universe behaves just as you'd expect it would with no God.
If there is brand new car on the street why u say it’s here randomly by accident no body made it it made self it was always there?😂
AB- HDGamer
Can you tell the difference between a rock and a car?
ehrman problem is he never touch with the spiritual being around us. his problem is also about books, texts and his only brain. he talks about religion, he studied about religion, but he lack of the core of the religion itself, that is a spiritual being who made this things become a religion. so its imbalance.
duno why likely i can feel unhappiness inside his eyes.
Bart is afraid to debate Dr. Reverend C. Diggs, and Dr. D. Wood.
Beug Auen: I appreciate your point. But is his perspective really a "problem?" He has a perspective, as do you and I. Do all perspectives need to be 'balanced' with their opposites? I hope to learn from his perspective (and yours), while I make up my own mind. Thanks for sharing yours.
You may perceive what many of us miss. You say you see a sadness in Dr. Ehrman's eyes. Might it be because he has become spiritually disconnected?
Your comment reminds me of the story of Charles Templeton who was a young evangelist working with Billy Graham. Some thought Templeton might have been more gifted than Graham. But Templeton questioned the basis of his faith and sought to strengthen that basis by more formal training - theological studies at accredited universities. It backfired and left him in doubt. To the end of his life he missed the Jesus he once knew.
Maybe that's what you see in Ehrman, that he misses the Jesus he once knew. I don't know whether Templeton ever found the faith he once had, but Ehrman has the opportunity now.
Your story is somehow like Dr. Jeffrey Land and to some extinct like Yusha Evans. They became Muslims.
I just waded through all the comments and nobody as far as I can see addressed Dr. Ehrman's concern with theodicy: "the vindication of divine goodness and providence in view of the existence of evil." In other words , what possible justification could God have for creating all the infinite suffering of obviously innocent people, like starving babies (not to mention all the misery among animals). All the justifications I've ever seen are obviously fallacious, including in the Book of Job where we're expressly informed that Gold tortures the just and righteous Job just to win a bet with the Devil! We know that's the "reason" for torturing him, but then the "comforters" insist on adding insult to injury with jive-ass excuses like "How do you know you never sinned? Mysterious are the ways of God to man (yadayadayaweh).. And even the idea of punishing the sinners is lame, considering that God is supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing so 1) he could have created creatures that wouldn't sin and thus condemn themselves to spending eternity in God's sadistic concentration camp of hell and 2) as all-knowing, he knew exactly all the bad "life choices" that would be made so he could have prevented all the infinite pain and suffering simply by not creating people,. Somebody said below that it's bad to blame God for creating an imperfect world because he might be incapable of creating a perfect one, but in that case he shouldn't have created a world at all. Finally, the idea that is best to just play along to avoid going to a hell may be true from the pragmatic (cowardly) perspective, but it certainly doesn't vindicate divine goodness and providence..
You cannot understand because your ears are blocked and your eyes are dimmed.
That is why you cannot understand that at the end of the Sixth Day of Creation Earth was a perfect place to live. Warm, moist, fertile with masses of food for an unbelievable variety of creatures.
Satan then ruined the perfection by uttering the first lie and making Eve and Adam sin.
All evil is Satan's doing while all ailments and stings are GOD's punishment of humans.
Maybe if you understand that on Judgment Day all the dead will be raised and judged and many will be chosen to live a perfect life forever and no matter whether the raised died as aborted foetuses, murdered or diseased child or adult .
I have followed this man for years...he is incredibly knowledgeable and knows the subject better than anyone. I couldn't listen to his all day
Reality is what you believe, even if it isn’t. Ascribing labels to people is discrimination. This can be useful but it throws up the question of who benefits. If you believe God exists, then God exists, even if he doesn’t. Religion is clearly man-made, even if inspired by a belief in a God and texts attributed to or inspired by that belief. What is perhaps more important is learning how to live peacefully together in the short time we are on this Earth, in order that we can also have time to discuss and perhaps solve the dilemmas thrown up by inspired difference.
There is probably an objective reality though. Even if we are all in our subjective bubbles. I agree with the last thing you write. We need to learn to live in peace with both nature and each other. Science is the way to go to learn that and genetics and evolution is key.
Alhamdulillah Bart D. Ehrman's knowledge and honesty are showing. And, that is a good thing. Both the old and new testaments have been altered by men and the bible is not what it is presented to be. Much appreciation for his work in sharing this important information.
Muslims worship Satan's idol called 'allah' in Mecca.
Honest of him. Most people believe a religion because it's their family tradition or because they find it comforting. But the more you question and study, especially the origins of the Bible and early christianity, the harder it is to see any logical reason to believe it. I would like to still have the kind of comforting simple beliefs I had as a kid, but can't make myself believe. Plus what most Christians believe these days in my country of origin, the UK, isn't even what the early Christians actually believed. They were waiting for Jesus to fly down from Heaven on clouds and raise the dead into new immortal bodies. And they expected it to happen soon.
Mr. Bart D. Ehrman
I think it is useless to talk to these people, because they have closed minds. And you, however, have an open mind, and so I recommend that you work on your personal spiritual development. Best Regards. :)
"... Useless to talk to these people, because thy have closed minds"? Wow, you seem to have the closed mind, Edib... at least Bart is willing to dialogue with evangelical scholars about these matters.
Streets of Vancouver
With closed minds, it is needless to waste time.
Nor you with me, nor Mr. Ehram with them. ;)
Your vacuous bravado is banal....
Streets of Vancouver
First of all, you need to understand that there are no _"evangelical scientists"_. Among evangelicals (and in general among Christians) may exist only people well trained in the sweet-but, unwilling to understand reality. Christianity is on his knees, and scientifically and morally! And if you interfere with my views, you simply ignore them. Best regards
he doesn’t believe in the super natural as far as I can gather so why would he work on his spiritual development?
I love Bart Ehrman, have followed him, bought his books, and so appreciate all his studies that have blessed me. I dont agree with all he says, but still love him. I mean I have God's love for him.
In his book God's Problem, his love for the human race is clear.
I've learned so much from him. His talks on the trinity are just what is needed right now. .
I believe the Bible is true.
GOD let it come to us humans with enough information to save us. He gave it to us through erring humans. The Call of Abraham is an account that made me cry for joy...learning how GOD began his human journey to the manger.
Amazing.
If human errors are found in the written account of what GOD said...it is understandable...since also his ancestors were erring. He descended from David an adulterer and murderer.
How wonderful our GOD who works with what he has to bring forth his will.
The story of Joseoh in Genesis is a perfect example of how GOD works. Through a bunch of wrongdoers, he saved many people alive. What a GOD!
GOD is not Jesus.
Ehrman works for Satan.
Prof bart confirmed what the Quran mentionned more than 1400 years ago (Jesus peace be upon Him not claiming to be God, the bible being falsified by humans..) its as simple as that.
@@mbarnabeus but quran also proves that Allah is satan and Mohammad is prophet of satan..what about that? And there are many mistakes in his studies which also proves that he made his books to make himself famous and get rich. He is exposed now.
Try read quran if you time..you lose nothing by looking at other scriptures as well..
I believe: women can become pregnant and give birth at 100, donkeys bushes snakes speak, Jesus is god so immortal yet he still died.
It is morally just to have Adam eve make us become born in sin so hell Is default unless we repent, that's why evil beings like ted bundy the serial killer is in heaven as he repented before execution and many of his victims are burning in hell as they never repented
If you study the facts long enough..... eventually you'll be unable to deny that the Bible is man-made through and through.
Thank you Dr. Bart, for your candor. The problem of suffering is what did it for me. When the proverbial rug is pulled out from under your feet, your head hurts for a while. Kudos sir.
This always mind-boggled me and even strengthened my faith in God. Athiests stop believing in God because suffering exists. Athiests believe life came into existence by some random chance, therefore we are a result of a mix of chemicals, so once we die we are not much different from a dead slaughtered lamb ready to be cooked. So once we die we are no different than a dead lamb that is devoured by a normal family. So my question is where does this emotion, at being upset at world suffering, come from? If we are a mix of chemicals and put ZERO effort in order to obtain our brains, eyes, ears, mouths, hands feet etc. then why are we upset when these are compromised via some sort of suffering? It honestly feels like a double standard contradiction. Meaning you ignore the logic when it doesnt fulfill your agenda ( athiests ignore the search for where these emotions such as hate fear and love come from and also ignore the fact that they put ZERO effort to land on Earth BUT then when these GIFTS are compromised they use that as a reason for not believing in God). For a basic anology its like a child recieves glasses from his parents so he can see and then his parents take the glasses away. So now he stops believing that they are his parents because if they were they wouldnt torcher him/her.
and dont even get me started with the concept of morality with an athiest. There really should be no morality empirically or scientifically because we are just a mix of chemicals with an expiration date so why do morals even matter?
Jerry, I am sorry to hear about your decision. Suffering does affect us very deeply. I don't know what your went through to arrive at your decision. It is true that the world is full of very deep suffering. I think about this problem a lot myself.
Does this mean that God doesn't exist?
Logically no. Emotionally yes and no.
Bart's personal tragedy pushed him toward the No.
Job's personal tragedy in Scripture pushed him toward the Yes.
Suffering is mostly an emotional problem. A very real and difficult one.
I have two best friends who experienced a very deep personal loss of their babies. Unimaginable pain. Yet, they are more committed to the Lord Jesus Christ than ever.
Why? Because Jesus is the the only answer & hope to the problem of evil and suffering.
I personally think that the very presence of evil is very strong evidence for God's existence.
I also think logically is very easy to conclude that God exists.
Suffering and injustice cry out for healing and justice. God is big enough to provide ultimate healing and justice. Hitler and Stalin, the rapist and murderer, the gossiper and drug dealer, the liar and hater etc. will not get away. They will get justice and condemnation.
Likewise those who received injustice and malevolence, but put their trust in Christ Jesus will be given healing and justice.
God bless you richly.
@@presleymaddox Ehrmanites cannot understand because their ears are blocked and their eyes are dimmed.
That is why they cannot understand that at the end of the Sixth Day of Creation Earth was a perfect place to live. Warm, moist, fertile with masses of food for an unbelievable variety of creatures.
Satan then ruined the perfection by uttering the first lie and making Eve and Adam sin.
GOD then gave Satan 6,000 years to try run Earth and make it the Paradise intended.
He has failed badly and now intends to coerce all people to converge on Armageddon for a great awaful battle that will kill all souls before they can know GOD.
GOD so loved the world that He sent His son to tell the truth and teach how to escape Satan's plan.
Ehrman is part of Satan's plan along with Dawkins, Hawlking, Hitchen and so many others who sneer at the Bible and believe themselves evolved from monkeys.
God is allowing his elect to endure a tiny amount of the effects of sin as an eternal lesson plan that will benefit us far beyond this puff of smoke we call life. It's not about life it's about eternity.
Get a real job. All you do is say, “I think.” I Should write books and give my opinion too.
No one cares about yours.
He's a genuine expert on the NT. He imparts knowledge based on years of study and research. That's why people buy his books.
Haha! I'm an Agnostic Gnostic! Checkmate:D
Dr. Ehrman is anything but confused, clearly, he has spent his entire life studying Christianity and biblical scriptures, his views are intelligent, sophisticated and clearly well thought out.
Atheism is the understanding that no amount of conjuring and spell-casting of theists will actually influence an invisible boss man in the sky to make an exception to the laws of physics. It doesn't matter whether there is actually a deity or not.
well... if you can be an agnostic atheist I guess I can be an agnostic believer
JeTc Jordan Peterson 😉
Yep, u can
I'd argue that everyone is agnostic - it's just a question of whether you admit it or not!
Actually yeah you can. Agnostic-theism
“I believe in the existence of a god(s), i don’t claim to know for certain this god exists.”
Let us (Man) cut straight to the chase and bypass all the fake preachers and teachers of religions, including Christianity and ask Jesus directly, what is the truth and what must we do to win eternal life?
“Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.” - (Matthew 4: 19) -
“God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” - (at John 4: 24) -
“Beware of false prophets, men who come to you dressed up as sheep while underneath they are savage wolves. You will recognize them by the fruits they bear.” - (Matthew 7: 15-16) -
“Do not call any man on earth ‘father’; for you have one Father and he is in heaven. Nor must you be called ‘teacher’; you have one Teacher, the Messiah.” - (Matthew 23: 9-10) -
“The thief comes only to steal, to kill, to destroy; I have come that men may have life, and may have it in all its fullness.” - (John 10: 10) -
“Take care that no one misleads you: For many will come claiming my name…”
- (Matthew 24: 4) -
“Many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many; and as lawlessness spreads, men’s love for one another will grow cold. But the man who holds out to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the Kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the earth as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.” - (Matthew 24: 11-14) -
“I am the way; I am the truth and I am life; no one comes to the Father except by me. If you knew me you would know my Father too.” - (John 14: 6-7) -
“When you pray, go into a room by yourself, and shut the door. Pray to your Father who is there in the secret place; and your Father who sees what is secret will reward you.
In your prayers do not go babbling on like the heathen, who imagine that the more they say the more likely they are to be heard.
Do not imitate them. Your Father knows what your needs are before you ask him.
This is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
Your kingdom come; your will be done, on earth as in heaven,
Give us today our daily bread,
And forgive us the wrong we have done, as we have forgiven those who have wronged us.
And do not bring us to the test, but save us from the evil one.
For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory, for ever.
Amen.
For if you forgive others the wrongs they have done, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, then the wrongs you have done will not be forgiven by your Father.” - (Matthew 6: 6-15) -
“Pass no judgement, and you will not be judged. For as you judge others, so you will yourselves be judged, and whatever measure you deal out to others will be dealt back to you.” - (Matthew 7: 1-2) -
“Truly I tell you; if anyone obeys my teaching he shall never know what it is to die.” - (John 8: 51) -
“Is there a man among you who will offer his son a stone if he asks for bread, or a snake when he asks for fish? If you, then, bad as you are, know how to give your children what is good for them, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things to those who ask him!
Always treat others as you would like them to treat you: that is the Law and the Prophets.
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it.” - (Matthew 7: 9-12) -
“I am the gate; anyone who comes into the fold through me shall be safe. He shall go in and out and shall find pasturage.” - (John 10: 9) -
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” - (Matthew 7: 21) -
“I am the resurrection and I am life. If a man has faith in me, even though he dies, he shall come to life; and no one who is alive and has faith shall ever die.” - (John 11: 25-26) -
“I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world” - (John 12: 47) -
“Whoever then will acknowledge me before men, I will acknowledge him before my Father in heaven; and whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.” - (Matthew 10: 32-34) -
“Someone said, ‘your mother and brothers are here outside; they want to speak to you.’ Jesus turned to the man who brought the message, and said, ‘Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?’ and pointing to the disciples, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. Whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, my sister, my mother.’” - (Matthew 12: 47-50) -
“The disciples came and asked Jesus, ‘Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven?’ He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: ‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me-to stumble, It would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!’” - (Matthew 18: 1-7) -
“Though many are called, few are chosen,” - (Matthew 22: 14) -
“An expert in the law, [a leading religious Pharisee] tested him with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’ He answered, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind. That is the greatest commandment. It comes first. The second is like it: Love your neighbour as yourself. Everything in the Law and the Prophets hangs on these two commandments.’” - (Matthew 22: 35-40) -
“There is no greater love than this, that a man should lay down his life for his friends.” - (John 15: 13) -
"Stay awake, and pray that you may be spared the test: The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." - (Matthew 26: 41) -
“Teach them to observe all that I have commanded you. And be assured, I am with you always, to the end of time.” (Matthew 28: 20) -
“One of the criminals who hung there also mocked and taunted him: ‘Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself, and us!’ But the other criminal rebuked him. ‘Have you no fear of God? You are under the same sentence as he. For us it is plain justice; we are paying the price for our misdeeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.’ And he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ He answered, “I tell you this: today you shall be with me in Paradise.’” - (Luke 23: 39-43) -
“For it is my Father’s will that everyone who looks upon the Son and puts his faith in him shall possess eternal life; and I will raise him up on the last day” - (John 6: 40) -
Yours always, in true Spirit and in our one given prayer, 2gointruth, Tuesday the 23rd of July, 2019: - (Matthew 5:14-16) - Where every minute (of both day and night) can be a new beginning for any one of us. Let it always be you.
I'd rather someone be honest about their doubts and give reasons for their position than strive to gloss over or be fraudulent in their belief and practice. It's not a crime to admit, "I don't know": it is a crime to oppress people who don't believe as you do.
I believe in the God of the Bible. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and shares the character of Divinity/Holiness with His Father. There's so much I don't understand and I have no pat answer for why God allows the suffering we experience and witness. This is a huge point, and I humble myself in holding that God knows what He's doing.
Yet, as much as I'd like to see everyone embrace the God I've accepted, I don't feel I have the right to force my belief on anyone. Only God Himself can change people, and He seems to have positioned Himself on the threshold of our free will.
I had a similar view to the problem of suffering before getting chronically ill. I think if you are going to say God, if he exists, isn’t worthy of belief due to human suffering...what about people? We should start out condemning what is visible before going to the invisible which is more speculative. When you are chronically ill, in the vast majority of cases, most people, friends, family, abandon you.
Most people simply don’t care about suffering and anyone who hasn’t strove to help suffering people lacks moral authority to condemn anyone else, whether God or another person, for suffering’s existence.
That's very interesting and very sad to hear. People aren't what we're meant to be.
On the other hand, if God is real (I believe He is), He is responsible for everything good in life, and arguably also for everything bad. I always wonder, even in the case of someone who dies young, why did they deserve to smell flowers, love, see the stars, feel anything at all, and even find growth in suffering? This is the overlooked part of the problem of evil: the problem of good. I suppose that the solution could be saying it's all random and what we call good and bad are arbitrary. On the other hand, if there's a good, sovereign God, then His plan is at least complex, and the definition of goodness is not necessarily defined by minimal suffering, as displayed on the cross. God and Jesus suffered in that, and in doing so displayed the purpose of humanity in lieu of suffering and pain. I guess if goodness is limited to preventing others' suffering, that'd be short sighted and easily fulfilled with the advent of technology and new social theories, which don't mend the need for purpose in our hearts.
I respect Bart for being an objective scholar. He simply lays out the facts and it is for people with eyes, ears, intellect, and heart to decipher.
Thank you Bart. You have helped me understand the very foundation of fabricated Christianity.
I'm actually a Christian and I love this guy. (Though, a lot of Christians tell me I'm going to Hell, so I must not be a very good one. =P )
Ehrman is one of my favorite authors.
That would depend on your definition of "born again," my friend. If you mean a fundamentalist Christian, then no, I am not.
But then I would ask, what do you define as being "born again"? I believe in God and Christ. If, by being born again, you mean belonging to a specific congregation that calls itself "born again," then I guess I wouldn`t fit into the category you`ve provided.
Michael, do you give to the poor? Do you love your enemies?
I love this about Bart! I am not a Christian, but I really appreciate the way he actively works to provide knowledge and understanding about the bible and the history of Christianity without ever insulting anyone (besides ocassional comments about fundamentalist Christians).
A lot of public atheists like to try to claim that Christians are all uneducated idiots. Even though I'm not a Christian, I do find that claim offensive because I come from a Christian family, and my Christian parents are definitely not idiots.
Spencer Pennington my dear friend you're not going to go to hell is the scary technique Christianity use opposite way believe in the Lord God of Israel only him be good and he will give you salvation read the Old Testament the true Testament the only Testament by God and you will have salvation if you want more info let me know I prove this to you may the Lord God of Israel bless you my friend
After more than 2000 years cristianity couldn't confurm who is almighty god ? it's a shame !!
Look what jesus (pbuh) said...
◄ John 5:30 ►
👉 I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.👈
it confurms Quran; Jesus (pbuh) was not your god but only a messenger. If you understand simple english.
The reason why those *tent revival faith healers* always RAILED against the 'higher criticism', is that when you learn _TOO_ much, it'll "wreck your faith" L O L ! ! !
it is because to be a true christian, you have to have faith. thomas wouldn't believe in Christ's resurrection until he would see Jesus. what did Jesus say when He appeared to thomas? "you believe because you have seen Me. blessed are those who have not seen Me and believe anyway." (jn 20:29) . well, those who falls away just because they must have all the answers, don't have faith in the first place... ... ... ... ... "I am the Bread of Life... I am the Living Bread that came down from heaven. anyone who eats this bread will live forever; this bread is My flesh, offered so the world may live. then, the people began arguing with each other about what He meant. 'how can this man give us His flesh to eat?' they asked. so Jesus again said: ' I assure you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you cannot have eternal life within you.but those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day... I am the true bread from heaven." (jn 6:48-58) "the very words I say to you are spirit and life." (jn 6:63) "if God were your father, you would love Me because I have come to you from God. Why can't you understand what I am saying? it is because you are unable to do so... anyone whose Father is God listens gladly to the Words of God. since you don't, it proves you aren't God's children." (jn 8:47)...... well, as i've said, only those who have the faith will understand and believe. ... all questions will eventually be answered ... after this world is passed .... peace to you all...
I like Bart Ehrman. Soft spoken and honest man. I haven't read his materials (I've only seen him talk), but to me it doesn't seem like he's trying to undercut peoples faith perse. It seems like he's trying to present the evidence and make people look at the different implications of it. (Some which clash with religious views on the transmission of the Bible.) Which I kinda think you could almost call biblical. "I would not have you Ignorant brethren" was a frequent sentiment of the apostle Paul. Bart might be an Apostate, but at least he's honest enough to tell you he's an apostate... Unlike many who stand behind a pulpit, have the audacity to tell you they believe in "the inerrancy of scripture", and proceed to correct some book they have in as many places as they can.
I agree partially with you. I actually think that he is quite smart but he has failed to present the full truth of his findings. Instead he is highlighting one side of an argument and withholding the rest.
He is absolutely an atheist. The atheist position isn’t that there is no god (how could anyone know?). The atheist position is merely that there’s no REASON to believe that there is a god.
From a young age, I have always questioned the bible as it always seemed to contradict itself in many ways. I was never any good at explaining the questions I had. Bart is an absolute legend in my eyes. He explain this stuff so well and love listening to some of his lectures. If more people thought like this man, there would be much less suffering simply because there is much more understanding. It's a shame mankind has developed to be a 'not so smart' species. Let's be honest mankind has many flaws. Lack of intellect, greed and fear has ruined the world. Anyway I would like to thank Bart for his intellect and open minded work over the years and thank him again for sharing it. But I also don't believe all this is random. I do believe in life after death. Another legend I listen is Thomas Campbell. He wrote 'My Big Toe'. I believe in much that he talks about.
Matthew Tomlins Yeah Campbell is awesome
It's reassuring to hear someone be 'agnostic' and 'humanist' yet was a Christian. He says he was a 'fundamentalist' but from 1:00 to 3:30 - I could answer most of these questions. Surely the question of 'suffering' is answered by Jesus's death on the cross? and in basic theology on the consequence of sin??
Also, you can read an original bible (with its translation) at www.codexsinaiticus.org - and guess what? It's still the same as the Bible today.
Dr. Ehrman has lent me a great and revelatory understanding of the origins of the N.T., and the genesis of Christianity. I have a great appreciation for his profound knowledge, perspective and objectivity. There are many mislead and misinformed Christians who would no doubt also abandon their faith were they to know and understand the origins of the Bible and of their religion as Bart Ehrman does (though Bart has made it clear that he has lost his faith on a different issue).
Why wouldn't they abandon their faith if they knew and understood the origins of the Bible as Bart Ehrman does? In what way do you mean they are misinformed?
An apostate! One falling away from the faith on the Blessed Savior. Bible is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD. Lord Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away". Also He said, " What saith the Scripture?" and " ye err not knowing the Scripture nor the power of God". His confidence in his own wisdom and knowledge has made him fool. Sorry for him.
The fool is the one who shuts off their critical thinking skills and blindly follows the words of ancient nomads who required a human sacrifice in order to be “forgiven” for their “sins”.
"I'm not evangelistic as an agnostic." I literally laughed out loud when he said that.
Barely Protestant made perfect sense to me
@@myfriend280 not if you know him at all.
I think he just meant that he doesn’t have a proselytizing mindset nowadays.
I would disagree with Bart. He's quite evangelistic with his skepticism. He wrote so many books and gave so many talks against Jesus and the Bible.
A lot of effort went into writing and by extension destroying people's trust in the Scripture and Jesus.
Satan used a similar strategy "has God truly said?"
"By their fruits you will judge them"
Actions do speak louder than words!
@@ambassador_in_training Hi Alexandra, Glad to see you tell the truth of Erhman selling his soul to Satan!
So many people listen to him which is Satan's plan the same as with Hawking, Dawkins, Hitchens and all those others who deny Biblical truth.
I don't get why people have such a hard time with the word agnostic. It is both a noun and an adjective. You can be an agnostic (noun). You can also be an agnostic (adj.) atheist.
God allows suffering to exist because he never takes away free will from us. This is why he placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of eden. To allow for free choice. God is not a dictator who likes to control people. He expects us to chose freely wat us good, there is a consequence for not being just or merciful and faithful to our benevolent creator. If we have free will, our judgement is just and fair. Judgement will come one day, this was a large part of Jesus' minstry. until then, there will be suffering. We dont deserve to live in a perfect world if we freely chose to do evil against our fellow man and the creator of all things.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans:1:22
A typical example!
May the Lord have mercy on you and change your path.
Typical Christian calling non believers fools. Go back to your fairytales. Science isn't for everyone
Mark Rodriguez
Islam is still around. Hinduism is still around. They have persevered. I take it this is evidence of the truth of their claims too...
Dr Bart erhman study the Quran the solution is there.you are well studied In Christianity, study Islam you will find answers there.
We believe the Quran is the inherent word of God and is not changed, I remember you saying or I read somewhere in your books where u said if God wanted us to have his message he would preserve his book,which is not the case for christianity. Dr. Erhman research on Islam ,you are a smart man the questions you ask in your books which Christianity does not answer u will find it in Islam. I have found Islam to be the most logical religion. Please sir I respect you because I believe you are sincere and plainly truthful. You were fundamentalist at one point in your life then you discovered the truth and you left your religion which is not an easy thing to do for most people. It only shows that you are a man willing to accept the truth when it comes to you.
Dr. Erhman the answers to questions are in Islam.
I wish u do best sir.
I pray God has mercy on you and guides you.
I hope u read this message
Very sympathetic guy - I am surprised! All 10 points for him from Germany!
Bart Ehrman is the only openly agnostic who defends the existence of Jesus Christ. How does that work lol! Bart Ehrman doesn't believe in an afterlife but he defends the existence of Jesus Christ? Very interesting
My faith is strengthened by the works of researchers like Bart Ehrman and James Tabor. My family was atheist but I have had some personal experiences that I believe prove there is God. So I want to know more. Much of religion is man made, I think, but it is based on a reality that connects our tangible world with the spiritual world. I believe there are times when natural laws in the natural world are miraculously set aside. I do not understand why these occurrences are rare. I have suffered a great deal in life and have devoted a lot of my activities in trying to alleviate suffering in this world. I continue to seek an understanding of the miraculous which I believe comes from God. By stripping away the invented parts of religion I think we can get closer to understanding a very basic and personal relationship with God and the other side. Just my opinion.
before you can say you don't believe in 'god' you have to define that god. I don't don't believe in a god that makes animal talk, turns women to stone, etc. If we find other dimensions we won't call them 'god'. I believe god was invented in the stories of the bible and only exists in that book.
I'm an agnostic scholar of Mormonism; Turns out, this is a very easy pursuit!
After many research and studying on Bible it doesn't make sense to you, that's ok but, just because Christian religion doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean there is no God and you shouldn't be agnostic you are a logical person there are other religions you should check them also. I would suggest to check religion Islam. Sorry my English is not good.
"I don't believe it, so I'm an atheist; but I don't know, so I'm an agnostic". Actually makes a "hell" of a lot of sense.
Why is it a pity to not know scholars are atheists or agnostics or both? If I know you are, how does that benefit me? Professing to be wise they become fools.The Bible says not to call someone a fool or you're in danger of he'll fire but since you don't believe in hell so I am ok from what it says in the Bible,according to you.Someone blind and deaf still lives eats breathes and deficates...too bad he still talks.
After reading and listened to Dr. Ehrman It is clear why they refer to ones religion as your faith.
Bart, we need to consistent in what is right, if you noticed that early christianity were the form of crucified messiah where all the diciple were the withness but it agains their Judaism belief so that it is. it is because of they KNEW it. and not just belief. it is clear that all the view of early Christianity about Jesus is confusing in early time it raise and due to all of this creating all wars, even new religions, it is due to cruxified messiah.
Great stuff as always. Never disappointing.
Professor Ehrman is an open honest scholar of scripture, whether or not you agree or disagree with his conclusions,. he is obviously well schooled and credentialed. After listening to many of his lectures and debates, as well as the books he has written, I feel that he challenges one to really read the scriptures for themselves and to ask the difficult questions. There are beyond a doubt many conflicting themes and contradicting stories within the scriptures that demand an explanation, and yet there is no logical explanation. Human suffering is probably the deal breaker for many. It is beyond comprehension that a loving and merciful god would create humanity with supposed free will and yet punish us collectively for things that he hard wired us to be and to do. Please do not quote scriptures to explain this because for every scripture quoted there is another scripture that will contradict it.
+kimberly. You are so well spoken and rational about this topic ... just plain old common sense reasoning. I love it.
RamZ Thank you, I try to keep an open mind and my comments fair and balanced :-)
Regards,
Kimberly
Well said. Since this is a prime battle ground for ego-to-ego conflict, there is endless argumentation. If this were spirit-to-spirit, there would be no book, no theologies, and no argumentation, just the very thing the Book is pointing to -> peace.
But since we don't have the latter, Bart's work helps us to THINK past our entrenched positions.
kimberly naranjo yes I agree. While searching for truth I've found he is best for true history
Name one contradiction in the Bible that has not been given a reasonable logical explanation to show the contradiction is due to either a mistranslation or a lack of understanding. Just one. Give it your best shot.
Warning, I've been doing this for as many years as Bart, maybe more and I have NEVER had one person give me a contradiction that has not been refuted by scholars.....not one.
Suffering.....-“Sorrow is better than laughter, for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better”... I believe we’re witnesses to good and evil, right and wrong.. I believe it’s so we can see truth, and see light and darkness.. and be able to differentiate the wicked, from the righteous..this is a gift... this witnessing, that if we follow Jesus, we can abide in truth, honesty, purity... we’re more thankful when we are put low.. only than sometimes can be be greatful.. when we have suffered
“We glory in tribulation, because tribulation worketh patience, patience worketh experience, experience;hope. And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, which is given unto us by the Holy Ghost”
I believe the death and resurrection of Jesus, exemplifies the ultimate suffering, and the ultimate good coming from it... everything thing imaginable falls short of these extremes.. the ultimate good, coming from the ultimate bad... his resurrection came from the worst suffering...
I believe this also easily silences those who want to say “God doesn’t have to suffer with us in this world, F him!”
God did suffer with us.. he dwelt among us through his son Jesus... that whoever believes him shall as everlasting life. Through the faith in his resurrection, we will also rise...
Erhman.... think that’s how u spell it.. lol... “professing yourself to be wise, you’ve become a fool”...
“Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, not not unto thine own understanding “
“The just shall live by faith”...
Very well said, thank you. I'm a believer in Jesus Christ because of the suffering I have been through in life. I am also very analytical and have my doubts on a daily basis, but I continue forward and pray. I also listen to all kinds of people, like Bart Ehrman and try to see from different perspectives. But I seem to always come back to Jesus because there is something very unique about him. Right now I am exploring the inerrancy of the Bible. Any thoughts on that?
GUYS..DON'T FORGET TO JOIN U TUBE LIVE DEBAT WITH "CHRISTIAN PRINCE".
At least I find Bart very honest (based on his knowledge of bible, biblical history and history of early Christianity) and he does not peddle things he knows NOT to be true to lead people into delusion. I respect such honest scholars.
As a Christian, I always thought the question "Why is there suffering in the world, if God is good, willing, and able?" was easy to answer. It's strange how Ehrman couldn't find an answer that suited him.
My answer: because God is just, and because humankind chose to sin, evil entered the world. If there were no evil in the world, there would be no choice of good vs evil. If we have no choice then He would be taking away our freewill. Which is not just or good for humans.
So, He rightly gave us a choice, and suffering exists because of our choices.
I like the idea told by Jordan Peterson (in my own lame words) that moving toward good is better than being at the state of good itself. And likewise, moving toward evil, is worse than being evil. Through life, we are always moving up or down, ebbing and flowing. It's never a single choice and then you're done, because youre never done. So, making good choices can be seen as more positive than only needing to make one good choice.
What Bart Ehrman said was obviously a simplification of a complex issue. It's not that he just asked that one question then couldn't think of a response. Being able to come up with some response is not the real issue here, the problem with the church/christianity historically is that because they're dealing with supernatural claims they can literally make anything up with no way for people to scrutinise, challenge or investigate their claims. Ehrman is a biblical scholar, he knows how much of the christian doctrine has been influenced by ancient mythology. There's a lot more to this than you realise. For example, you said humankind "chose to sin", I assume you're referring to Adam and Eve, which already says a lot. You actually think Adam and Eve were real people, and I hope this doesn't sound like an attack, but that already reveals how deep your indoctrination has gone. I'm sorry, but it's time to grow up. There's so much knowledge out there, watch some of Ehrman's lectures if you haven't already, or listen to other speakers like Christopher Hitchens and Matt Dilahunty. I know we all grow up in our bubbles, but with such easy access to information these days, there's hardly any excuse anymore for that kind of ignorance. If you'd like some recommendations I'd be happy to point you in the right direction. All the best.
Evil exists beacuse GOD told Satan he coudl have 6,000 years to try make Earth and humans as perfect as things were at the end of the Six Days of Creation.
I appreciate the different perspectives voiced here.
It is amazing to me how intelligent people can all reach different conclusions. It’s one of the great riddles of life.
As a child I was raised Catholic, and I thought about the problem of suffering from a young age. I vividly remember hearing more than one homily discussing about people losing their faith over this issue, such as after watching a loved one die painfully or contemplating the state of the world.
As a child, I remember being able to reconcile this issue in my heart despite that seeming horrible, logically. I don’t know if it was due to naïveté, but I can still reach a state of equanimity and deep spiritual understanding on this issue in my most peaceful and spiritual moments.
I had a lot of doubts from as young as around the time of my first communion, or even earlier, though it doesn’t seem possible. However there were a great many things I liked and could accept, especially moral teachings and emphasis on family values - I couldn’t have asked for a better church overall experience as a child despite my doubts.
I became insatiably curious about other religions, and while I was young and healthy I could easily go to a place in my mind where there didn’t have to be a God or anything beyond the physical and life still seemed beautiful and full of meaning. For at least 20 years I explored other religions from an agnostic view. My agnosticism stemmed from the logical need to be a pluralist about religion, because I really feel a lot of power and truth coming from other religions.
I realized at some point that I had better learn a little bit more about Jesus and the bible and Christian faith, and I have been exploring this for a few years now. This mainly amounts to praying, reading the bible and visiting a different church almost every Sunday. I still continue to practice many other things from other spiritual paths and hold on to many teachings that I have studied and practiced along the way.
I can get very turned off of the Jesus people, and catholic mass is incredibly boring. Anglicanism is quite good but it’s almost exclusively old people and the PC vibe can get insufferable.
All this being said, I have developed this incredible relationship with Jesus, and affinity for his teachings. I have had some very significant spiritual moments reading scripture and in church.
I don’t know where all of this is taking me. I have also listened to and read about hundreds of NDE accounts. The testimonies really point towards the good of any and all religions being a beautiful thing, and the highest truth we have access to, but not one specific real true religion, and definitely not the idea that in our natural state we are sinners or inherently foul creatures.
Can’t wait to read this guy’s books.
Have you had experiences with the 1111? I consider myself an agnostic atheist like Bart but I've had some weird coincidences bordering on what it feels like to be supernatural with that number.
NDEs and the concentrated study of them during nursing school and for years afterward (on and off) has me believing in a higher power that set us up with some circumstances and who mostly does not intervene (otherwise, how would we learn?) but who nevertheless is there to receive us when we transition out of the earthly plane. I am enjoy Dr. Erhman's lectures immensely. I do not believe in The Trinity nor the infallibility of the Bible (plus there are many poor translations) and do not care for the way it has been twisted for certain agendas. Nevertheless there is a great deal of wisdom in The Good Book and I enjoy reading it o occasion.
What do you personally think about Jesus?
You dont know happiness without learning sadness. God creates suffering so you will understand what is happiness and comfort. The opposite of things is a balance.thats why God creates them all to understand. Since im a muslim, we believe whoever got sufferings on earth like illness or earthquake or flood etc...they are going to heaven and get great life there, acfually they are luckier then us who are still living on this earth with all conflicts and wars.
Muslims worship teh black stone idol called 'allah' in the kabaa in Mecca. The qoran is full of Satan's lies and garbage.
If knowledge of God comes through faith and faith does not come from knowledge, it makes sense that focusing on knowledge will not lead to God.
We don’t know what we don’t know and this is especially true when it comes back to lost knowledge. Evangelical Christianity believes in cessationalism. Dismissing the notion of apostolic gifts is like expecting Jesus to argue his position with the Jews.
Believing in Jesus leads to people seeing miracles. In Mark 6:5 it says “...because of their unbelief, He couldn't do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them.”
This is important because the Bible tells us that Jesus was limited by people’s faith.
The problem with people like Ehrman is that Jesus is only a historical figure. If you do not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead and confess Him as Lord, you will not be saved. (Romans 10:9)
1 John “2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.”
Understand Ehrman’s struggle and avoid it like the plague. Read scripture believing Christ is the Lord. Repent of your sin and rededicate your life to God daily, asking to be released from the burden of sin.
Do not read scripture to build your position. Pride comes before a fall. Humble yourself before the Lord and he will remain in you.
The Bible has added verses in it like the lady who was to be stoned for adultery and Mark 16 9:20 were not in the original transcripts, I can show more, the Bible is not made to be taken literal, it’s about meditation, Sun worship, the zodiac, original books were taken out like the book of Thomas, Jesus only speaks in parables which are not real stories Matthew 13, it says 2x in the whole thing Jesus spoke parables. None of it is real, it’s way to live life, early Christians were Gnostics murdered by the Catholics. The numbers in the Bible mean things too, look up Pythagorean numbers and their representation. Jesus also said do not call me lord and not do the things I say.The Bible has many dark meanings.
So atheism is someone who doesn't believe in the God of the Bible? Thanks for clearing that up because I have been saying this for years. Funny how no one denies the other gods. They just don't like the idea of a Christian God. The ONE TRUE GOD, by their own admission.
No, atheists don't believe in ANY god, otherwise every religion outside of Christianity would be atheists
notice its because of the suffering in the world that he couldn't explain which ultimately resulted in his decision., not only the scriptural studies.
I have to agree with him. Even if I assumed there was a creator from what I'm observing he doesn't seem to intervene any so it .makes no difference to me whether there was a prime mover or not. A personal deity is out the window for me.
Mr. Bart D. Ehrman, keep researching it.
He's a Dr
aTheist, someone that doesn't accept Theist claims. Bart is an atheist. In the USA that is a very pejorative term, so they tend to use the term agnostic. Isn't everyone agnostic. We cannot know such things.
True, but an agnostic acknowledges this while a religious person thinks that they can and do know such things. So I think the meaning behind it is for relating on a human-to-human level.
You suddenly realized that bible is not from God etc etc.
However you forgot a small detail, you were an evangelical christian! Which means:
You were part of a new church, founded by men!!! hundreds of years after Christ. Why is this important??? Cause by doing this you clearly declare: "the day that my evangelical church, one among thousands others, was founded, that very specific day there was no other church on earth being in the truth. Cause if there was I would have to be in the wrong. That day, Jesus failed cause that day Jesus church had failed around the world and my church came to fix this failure"!
Nr.2 you were standing on a new theology that offends Christ, and mislead his people.
For this 2 reason do not expect to see much of God's grace on spaghetti reformation theology.
If you loose the grace, what do you expect to happen???
You will most probably become a God denier trying to put all your hate against God. Or you might become a cold (you call it agnostic) christian.
Faith is one of the highest and things coming from soul, is not only intelectual.
People are lost, they study and study, and think, and search, and do philosophy etc etc to find Jesus as if it is an intelectual process.
They want with an intelectual vehicle to travel to the spiritual world.
Well said
The church relies on that point. "You need faith, not proof." That way you don't have to see reality, just "its true for me". If that floats your boat, have at it. Leave the rest of us alone with your rules on how we should live.
@@joereachor2739 But Joe you are walking to your eternal death! Christians are walking to eternal life!
Re (3:30-3:44): “agnosticism = epistemology”; “atheism = belief”, I typed out the quote in full and commented on this here:
www.eoht.info/page/Bart+Ehrman
Ehrman (2014) is an “agnostic-atheist amortalist historical-Christist”, categorically.
www.eoht.info/page/Atheism+types+by+denial+and+belief
It takes a great deal of mental effort (research) to go from “historical Christist” to hard “a-Christist”. No doubt 2,000-years ago, there were “historical Horus-ists” debating “a-Horus-ists” on whether or not an actual historical Horus existed.
So Bart couldn't reconcile the fact that the Books of Job and Habakkuk speaks about sufferings and the problem of evil in the fallen world?
Maybe Bart, you should've asked God the Holy Spirit for guidance in your areas of doubting the Word of God.
How was Eve deceived by the serpent in the Garden of Eden?
What was the folly of man in the Garden of Eden?
Throughout all the Scriptures, is there a Plan to deliver those who put their TRUST in God, not their CONFIDENCE in man?
Do you really believe a serpent (snake) was able to speak?
@@Gravitysea Serpents cannot speak but invisible Satan can synchronise his words to a serpent's tongue flicking?
You lack wisdom and knowledge!
@@Gravitysea
Can a parrot talk?
@@Gravitysea
Humanistic Existentialism once again!
Would i be right or wrong in thinking that a true Agnostic should necessarily think that the existence of a higher power is a 50/50 proposition? Indeed, if not 50/50 then what would the ratio be? Whatever the value, that would be a "knowledge" claim.
It should also be pointed out that, while an Atheist cannot falsify a Deistic God, it is very easy to falsify all Theistic gods. Ergo an Atheist is not operating on "belief" unless he/she also claims to be Adeistic.
Danny Wilten
Okay, I get the idea of parents teaching their children lessons through tough love, but casting your children into an eternity of suffering in the depths of hell seems a bit much...
No really though, that's one explanation, but what about all of the innocent that suffer? What about the starving children?
Once you believe in life after death it would be easy to understand why we have unjust in this world. This world is a test and the real Justice is in life after death.
Too bad he did not get into Christian mysticism.
Brilliant definition of the Agnostic/Atheist positions.
Never heard it put so fluently before.
Couldn't have said it better. I call myself an agnostic but he nailed the description on how I view it. I've noticed I don't like to say atheist around a lot of people because they're automatically assuming I'm saying a direct statement about there not being a god even though it's lacking a belief in one. I really don't know.
In philosophy 'agnostic' is used simply to mean someone who doesn't take a position on the question of God's existence, and atheist is someone who doesn't believe in his existence, the question of knowledge seems to me irrelevant. So calling oneself an agnostic atheist is too confusing and unnecessary imo.
Yes, but the internet has produced an entire encyclopedia of opinion on the meaning of agnosticism and atheism. I just keep it at atheist. I feel silly calling myself an agnostic. This may seem sophomoric, but I truly do believe the likelihood of unicorns or other mythological creatures existing somewhere in the universe is equal to the likelihood of deities existing somewhere. Both are man-made ideas. I'm not that arrogant to presume our species is capable of inventing something whole cloth like that and have any degree of accuracy. I agree with agnosticism being relative to epistemology, however, I feel agnosticism needs to be kept within reasonable limits. I really don't see that amongst the typical agnostic. I think their position is as equally untenable as most theists.
the truth is no one knows for sure if there is a god or not
+Alecia Spencer Its a safe bet to not believe in anything religions say in general. They've offered no mechanism to test any of their claims while at the same time making the most fantastic claims possible. If Bob from next door told me he was an inter dimensional demon from 6 galaxies away, I don't have to be agnostic about that. What's different about God? That someone wrote it down?
The truth is that there is a 100,000+ consecutive year record of complete failure to demonstrate the existence of anything supernatural.
So anyone who isn't sure whether the Easter Bunny or Superman or daemons or gods exist, they're delusional or morons.
100,000+ consecutive years of a complete absence of evidence *is* evidence of absence. You can't get a perfect losing streak that long by random chance.
I'd say I'm 90% sure there is a god. I'd say I'm 100% sure he's not the god of the Quran, I'm 50% sure he's the god of the Torah (but he's moved on and the Jews haven't), I'm 60% sure the Catholics are right (but they call men their 'Father' and have loads of smells and bells which is wierd) so that leave the teachings of Jesus and I'm 100% sure of that.
I hate to say that I'm ignoring the silly religions - but then I can be 99% sure I'm not going to come back as a cow.
Right, Alecia. Everyone is agnostic.
Science proves that there is a God, because without the intervention of a superior being, certain elements within our universe would not function as precisely as they do.
I wonder how one explains the supernatural? What of the mischievous or harmful entities that are becoming so well documented? Alien life and their visits here as well? So much going on out there to be atheist, but agnostic is not a bad thing, for we just don't know... And what was written has been shown to be highly man-handled, so it too is not a definitive GUIDE, yet SOMETHING is going on...
Hi, Bart.
I'd like to address suffering. There are two types of suffering, in my opinion.
The first type is the suffering that is caused by transgression, i.e. By people who choose to cause you harm.
The second kind of suffering is the suffering caused by life trials, like diseases and disasters.
As for the first type, it is due to the free-will that people are given; People can choose to harm, and they can choose to benefit. I don't see how someone choosing to cause me harm a proof that a creator doesn't exist. We can, instead, ask why we people are given free-will. We may or may not get to know the reason.
Suffering from trials, which is the second type, is a part of life. Diseases caused by infections are caused by organisms that take part in the ecosystem which is important to lives on earth. Also, disasters like volcanoes allow the earth to neutralize the increased pressure from within it; which is important for the stability of the earth.
There might be more wisdoms that we're not aware of.
"why there are suffering in the world if the god were in control" thats was the main question everybody who believe in god will be asking regardles of what their religion is. I am too asking the same question before.
So here for the people who are still asking the same question and want to try listen to one explanation. You can decide it by yourself after watching. Amd i really hope bert erhman also got to see this and respond on it. Because i know he is a knowledgeable person and i just want to know what his take on the lecture about why we suffer in this world if god were in control.
Go search "The purpose of life by jeffrey lang" on youtube.
Bart is a fine scholar and I respect his position as an agnostic. His comments about epistemology (what you know) and belief are important to understand the difference between a scientific/historical perspective vs. a belief perspective. Many believers look for simple answers to problems and they then become simplistic and miss the point when trying to force a blend between knowledge and belief, e.g. The Truth Project. It is a pity that Bart had formed a fundamentalist belief that "God is in control of the world." Even the Genesis account indicates that God gave humans dominion over the earth. There are no simple answers to suffering but perhaps the Buddhists have it right. We need to stop clinging to our attachments. One attachment is that God is in control of the world. The world has suffering. We need to face it and deal with it.