On the other side of the world, in Melbourne there is a widely disliked football team with a reputation for um... "somewhat combative supporters". When a newspaper ran a survey asking people what word they found most offensive, the name of that team topped the list above "four letter words" and various racial epithets. As a result some people refuse to mention it by name and instead refer to it as "The football team representing the suburb between Abbotsford and Fitzroy".
@@kaisalmon1646 I was aware of the Millwall thing cause my school in South London would have kids making "mill bricks", a heavy stone wrapped in compacted newspaper and sellotaped to hell afterwards
@@kaisalmon1646 . Maybe too young Kai? Millwall fans were FIERCE supporters of their team. For example, in West London you didn’t need to check fixtures if they were playing away at Chelsea or Fulham. The number of extra police around was a sure indicator 😉
About 10 years back, I emerged from London Bridge tube station, to a sea of police in full Riot gear in the mainline station. The nearest copper told me to "Give it 15 minutes or so". Before trying to board a train. "What happened?" I asked, "Some sort of terrorist incident?" "Worse." He replied "Millwall were playing *I forget the team* AND LOST!"
Funny story I got booted out London Bridge around that time for same but it was Chelski fans - missed my (advance ticket) train from Kings Cross as a result. It wasn't that they were exactly rioting per se, they were just running special service trains completely full of them is all. Although me as a lifelong Liverpool fan probably wouldn't have wanted to be in the middle of them.
My son's first Saturday at college in Southampton was the day of a game against Portsmouth (the two sets of fans hate each other). The new students were warned, in all seriousness, not to go into town that evening.
Back in the last century, a Glaswegian business colleague of mine was driving home from Ibrox after Rangers (his team) had thrashed Celtic 6-0 (or something like that) in the Old Firm derby. After the usual delays in leaving the car park, my colleague was behind the fans who had left Ibrox on foot. His journey home to East Kilbride meant he had to drive through the Celtic stronghold of Castlemilk. When he got to Castlemilk, there was a full scale brawl/punch-up/battle in progress but not a Rangers fan/shirt/scarf in sight! My colleague was ushered through the melee by the police and made his way home. The newspaper report the following day described how the Celtic fans various factions were fighting amongst themselves as to who had caused such a heavy defeat - poor defending/lack of attack/ missed goal opportunities etc.
We called it mudchute as a kid .When we were kids it was a derelict piece of land that they had the guns on from the war .Was a great place to play as a kid .
@@Vincent_Quak They were there to protect the docks from the Luftwaffe's redevelopment plans. They just never quite got around to removing them afterwards.
Quite a few places in inmer & outer London had AA Batteries set up in parks & open ground in general; as far out as [then relatively rural] Middlesex. Most take a fair bit of investigation to identify as such as only the concrete bases remain; but Millwall got luckier than that :D .
@@no-one-in-particular It took a long time to clear away, maybe the port of london authority didnt trust russia in the cold war era either,. The PLA had their own police force from memory, of which the security guards around Canary Wharf are a descendent
If you go back in history, the area known as mudchute was where the spoil from Blackheath was deposited, along with mud which was dredged from the docks in the east end. Back in the mid to late 80s, I was involved in the operation of the DLR and Mudchute as an area still had that vile stench of mud, it was truly not a pleasant area to be. I understand it has improved now.
@@paullee5573 lol I was born and bred there it never smelt that bad I grew up playing there mate it was fucking gresat to be around then. Better than now anyway
As I remember, when the DLR opened in 1986, one of it's 'mission statements' was that it's stations were to be on a smaller scale than Underground stations, not only in size but in the area they served. One thing they very much wanted to avoid was the Undergrounds custom of using terms like 'east, west, central' and so on, when naming stations. And so smaller local neighbourhoods, roads and features were to be adopted. A good example was the renaming of Stepney East to Limehouse. So a little local oddity like the Mudchute was very much keeping to this rather than the more general area, Millwall ...though it's true that the DLR didn't want lost fans wandering onto their system looking for a Club that had moved to New Cross seventy-odd years ago! (Funnily enough, when my cousin and his friends came over from Ireland and went to watch Queens Park Rangers, they missed the kick-off as they naturally went to Queens Park station thinking that's where QPR's ground must be!)
Another such anomaly is the DLR station named 'Abbey Road', some tourists end up here assuming that the famous Beatles album cover photo was shot there 😂
I dont live in London.... I dont even live in the UK.... But I absolutely love your videos! They give me a break in the day, with its infusion of information, great photography and that lovely “dry” sense of humor😉👍👍👍 Its always a great pleasure to watch, and learn from. I cant wait to visit London again, when the world is again a better and safer place. Thank you for the “spirit boost” 👍👍👍🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰
We may be in our death throes as an empire, but for sure a few of us can still do good dry humour; hang on, the floor’s tilting, my feet are getting wet, I can hear the band playing “Nearer my God to Thee”.
Thankfully in England we have people like Jago who do this sort of thing, for which we are most grateful. With England's long history, there is always something you didn't know or something new to learn. Plenty of people have been here before and left their footprints.
@@martinross5521 Death throes? The Empire disappeared 70 years ago. Maybe you mean the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (or that awkward top-right corner of Ireland). Still, you're right - when all else is lost, dry wit is our last hope.
Richard, of course you’re right. Just that lots of outlets in England still behave as though we still had one. I’m sure the NI “problem” will lead to a united Iteland since we’ve given up supplying them with food as the starter for unification. Our remaining assets are being blacklisted by the EU for tax dodging and criminality! Gotta laugh, wiping up tears with dry wit wipes...
Note of interest,Wher Mudchute is now, was aproximatly whre Hawkins and Tipsom Ropemakers works were.I worked there in 1966. On a Wednesday evening. as overtime, my job was to sweep the Ropewalk. A very long shed( Quater mile). There were two Bogies on a small railtraks, which spun the Hemp or cycil yarn into Rope
As a millwall fan I enjoyed this and have to say it was a fair reflection of the times. A lot has changed for the better since the 80s though. Growing up on the south side of the river, like many other millwall fans, I knew nothing about the actual area of millwall and have only ever been there once just to have a look at the park where one of the former grounds was located. So as usual Jago has been very informative! One minor point - when the football club first left the isle of dogs in 1910 it moved to the den in new cross and not Bermondsey. It was only in the 90s when the club moved to the new den it was technically in Bermondsey! Keep up the fantastic work jago!
My first job in 1964 was for aa coffee packing company on the Issle of Dogs ( Millwall) West Ferry Road. I passed iy a couple of years ago, and there is now a Plaque in the Pavement saying, '' This is th site of the original Millwall Football Club'' 9(opposit John Lennetons Timber Yard)
You’re more likely to find West Ham supporters around Mudchute than Millwall supporters. Mudchute is in the east end and north of the Thames in Tower Hamlets. Millwall play in Bermondsey in southeast London, and their ground is in the borough of Lewisham (where I grew up) a few miles away.
Back in the late 70s early 80s I used to go to the Mudchute Farm, it seemed massive then, for a city kid to get pony rides was a real treat then. The Isle of Dogs wasn’t a desirable place to go either then, rough as f&!@ was one of the nicer things it was called. I think there was just one bus route on and off the island as there was nothing there apart from residents who very rarely ventured off the island and business relating to the docks, which were all being wound down. The opening of an Asda near the Muschute at the start of the Enterprise Zone development was the start of the rejuvenation of the area.
On behalf of the Mudchute Massive I'd just like to say how nice it is to have the plight of our poor naming brought to attention. None of the other TFL stations take us seriously and quite frankly it hurts.
Mudchute is a good name for the station. The nearby Mudchute City Farm was established on a huge mound of mud formed when the nearby docks were built all those years ago, so Mudchute is very apt. In the 80s I planted a lot of trees there and they're now doing very well!
“A visit to Mudchute Farm” was a chapter in my kid’s English textbook. So we went there. They have an AA gun there🤷🏻♂️. It was nice. It was raining. It was ........ muddy!
@@simonwinter8839 There are no stupid questions only stupid answers and luckily we cant know everything. triple A or AAA stands for Anti Air Artillery that why i said he forget an A. Like you mentioned AA is most known for automobile association and/or alcohol anonymous. Its even possible that the operator of the AAA can be a member of the AA and also go to an AA meeting. 😁
I was on the DLR coming from Deptford Bridge. When we got to Mudchute a bunch of Australian blokes jumped off, posed for a photo under the Mudchute sign and quickly jumped back on.
Funnily enough, the father of a girl I went out with in the 80s was responsible for the new name. He was on the station naming panel and suggested that the station be named after the farm.
As a child in the early 70s, I was often taken to the mudchute to slide down the inner slopes on a flattened cardboard box, excellent cheap adventure park \m/
I think there was also a geographical element in not calling it Millwall Park. By the 1980s, the football team had been playing south of the Thames for so long, that, outside of the Docklands area, people were probably more aware of Millwall as a South London football team than as an area of the Isle of Dogs. Therefore, calling it Millwall Park may have caused some confusion. Although one would hope that passengers would have noticed that they hadn't gone over or under the Thames!
You know, this offers a possible solution to the problem that you raised in last week's episode about Covent Garden having too many passengers. If they rename "Covent Garden" station as "Football Hooligan In Your Face" station, I'll lay odds that there will be a drop off in usage to more manageable levels. There may be a little trouble fitting the new name onto the roundels though. One problem at a time, please.
@@iankemp1131 Ah, but as Jago said, that name's ... potency, shall we say, was lost some time ago. It's probably still true that nobody likes them. And that they don't care. However the name is not the waste plutonium metaphor that it once was.
Before we moved to just around the corner, we were thrilled there was a DLR station for our commute to Bank. By the time we'd moved in, it had been demolished. Had to catch trains from Crossharbour (for the London Arena) for ages.
It wasn't British football clubs that were banned from European competitions in 1985, but only English ones. Clubs from the UK's other nations were completely unaffected by the ban.
Over here in NYC we’ve got a station with competing etymologies, but the root is assumed to be a bit more darker: “Spuyten Duyvil”, a station on the Metro-North commuter network. Quick reminder that New York started out as a Dutch colony, so a lot of Dutch is left in our lexicon, which creates a interesting mix of Native American, Dutch and English names. The name is thought to ether mean “Spouting Devil” or “To Spite the Devil”.
I think the arrival of all seater stadiums was one change, the growing up of the supporters another, and perhaps the gentrification of the docks - Surrey Docks area etc.
It certainly is an unexpected name, alongside some of the other pleasanter-sounding places (Canary Wharf, Heron Quays, Island Gardens) but avoiding that unfortunate connection with Millwall certainly makes a lot of sense. But there’s a certain robust, directness to it. Rather than some jobsworth-derived euphemism or some of the dreadfully fake-sounding names given to modern housing estates. And it actually has solid historic precedent, being the name of something that was once actually there, or thereabouts. Probably the least-worst they could find, but congrats to them for sticking to their guns and not inventing something totally false…
As a young fan in the 70’s, I was well aware of Millwall’s rep. In a wider sense, football was an altogether different game then! A mate used to be in a local “firm”. The stories I heard about were strong stuff. These guys were a lot more organised than the at-the-time police even suspected. As usual, great vid & very well researched Jago.
The "firms" would often arrange a place to meet up near to the football ground and have a fight there. A weird "macho" ritual, that's captured brilliantly in a number of disturbing films ("I.D." is particularly good). It's a great shame that Millwall became such a magnet for hooligans, as my late grandfather was a fan from his youth in the 1930s.
@@jimtaylor294 What was interesting, despite the later NF/BNP connection was the young West Indian Chap, presumably a Millwall supporter, admidst the melee, yet untouched and seemingly not partaking of the afternoons practical fisticuffs.
As a train enthusiast & football fan (my father supports Millwall!) can I just say thank you for producing such a factual and unbiased video! Football had had, and has, its problems but as somebody who works in the arts, it’s an easy target since it’s popular and gets a lot of unnecessary flack. This is a just and fair assessment!
I'm in America but think I might try going to a soccer game next time I visit London (preferably West Ham, since they're in the Olympic stadium). Do you believe it's safe?
@@kinkisharyocoasters I’m actually a West Ham fan myself. It’s more than safe and you’ll have a lovely time 😊The movies are (at best) dated with their views of football hooliganism.
Pursers on the Old Kent Road - sadly no longer there, the VW garage I mean - used to owned by the people who owned Millwall FC. They even built a balcony, where they would be able to show off trophies won - the eternal optomists - however Saturday afternoons the Sales manager would get the call " get all the cars off the front, we lost and crowd ain't happy". This story was told to me by the last of the family owners when we purchased dealership from them.
As a gigging muso in the 80s I had a Saturday night residency for a few weeks at the Valentine and Orson, in Bermondsey; me on organ plus a drummer. We did London singalongs, rock 'n' roll, the usual stuff. Occupying the two tables nearest us, and by 10.30, yelling 'No one like us!'...were the Bushwackers. I was happy to get out of there!
I've never lived in London but it's fascinating to learn about the little snippets of history behind buildings and railways and such, your videos are very enjoyable
One of Millwall FC's early grounds on the island was on the old mudchutes, the players used to complain about the smell that they couldn't wash off! 🤢 Also local residents were against calling the station Millwall because they were concerned about away fans turning up there thinking the Den was near by. 🦁👍
I walk past the park and farm all the time and have never been in, never knew about the AA Gun. Now I have to go explore next time I am down there. Intriguing!
I remember when I was living in Oxford, I came out of my office and was face to face with several police horses. I asked the police constable on top of the horse whether there was an EDL march or whether there was just a football match. She replied "Millwall are playing. So both"
Jago, have you seen the film The Firm with Gary Oldman? There’s an interesting line at the end of the film when one of the actors, in character says an improvised line, “if they stop us from going to football we’ll just go elsewhere, it’s doesn’t matter if it’s football, snooker or darts, they’ll never stop us from doing this because it’s who we are and our way of having fun”.
I travel through Mudchute station almost every day to get to South Quay. I even saw a train at platform 3 once. Millwall’s most infamous moment came at Luton in March 1985. They moved out of the old Den in 1993 into their new all seater ground. There’s even a farm at Mudchute.
It’s closer to mudchute farm than millwall park and it is named mudchute as it is where they dumped the mud from digging the nearby docks which was moved via a chute
I've always wondered about that name and had assumed it was a relic of 19th century industrialisation, which proves to be correct! But I like it, it has a sort of quaint locational honesty about it in a calling a spade a spade sort of way. No no, the worst-named station in London is also on the DLR: Abbey Road. There's only one Abbey Road and it isn't in the depths of the Essex marshes.
Hey Jago Thankfully, I only ever policed a single game at the Den. It wasn’t pleasant! I remember seeing a WPC being picked up by a bunch of hooligans, who were supporting the visiting team, who then in turn launched her down a flight of terrace stairs! Oh, the fun we had attempting to arrest them! My son, who is a senior civil servant within the department for jollity is an ardent fan of Millwall FC... he ain’t a bad lad! 😁
If you meet most Millwall fans, they are an alright Bunch until they get together or get anywhere The New Den. I don't know what triggers them off. Maybe worth a upload in its own right Jago!!
One has to make a distinction between gang criminality (the firms of hooligans) and football supporters. I am not interested in football at all myself, but if you like football, I hope you have a good game. Gang criminals however, they should be locked away for life with no outside contact.
Whilst job hunting in the 1980s, if you saw a job's location specified as "a desirable Thames Valley location", you just *knew* that they meant "Slough". (Excellent video, "Jago".)
It's said that the reason South Bermondsey station retains a wooden platform and very basic passenger shelters is that it's the nearest station to Milwall FC's ground and giving it an upgrade was seen as a total waste of money.
London football: where Millwall play in Bermondsey, West Ham play in Stratford, Arsenal play in Islington, Chelsea play in Fulham and Crystal Palace play in Croydon.
@@eattherich9215 My wife,who is Jamaican, was just talking this morning about Ridley Road market and how she was going to go to Ridley Road Market to by some Cow foot to cook. It really is delicious but I somehow get the feeling I'm not helping matters!!
I visited the den a few years ago for a game against Derby County. It was my first visit & i didnt really know what to expect after hearing all the stories and seeing THAT movie. Imagine my surprised face when I witnessed proud signs inside the stadium like "Voted Best family club in Championship 201X". Times really have changed... Atleast until a promotion
Before watching this the name made me think of those chutes made up of connected bins or very large buckets that you sometimes see hanging off the side of tall buildings under construction. They should have a slide in the park for people to whizz down and land in lots of glorious mud.
You are to England what Paul Hogan was to Australia in the 80s. All your history and interesting facts and stories are making me want to come see England for myself. I would love to have a look around half the places you have talked about and it even looks as if I can get to most of them by train
St. Sewage in the East should be the name of West Ham station for similar reasons and because it is adjacent to Sir Joseph Bazalgette's 'Poo pipe'. Interesting that you illustrated it with Bow Road, only two stations along the line.
How about a video on the "Omphalos" in the park near Mudchute? As in "Nazi occultists seize the Omphalos". Obviously it isn't what some people think it is, but what is it actually, who built it and why is it there? It lines up exactly with the leyline that starts with Blackheath Church, runs through the central avenue of Greenwich Park and the Wolfe statute, and the Queens House, neatly dividing the Old Royal Naval College in two.
Interestingly the Passenger Information System on the DLR is still programmed with the names of a few stations that never were, or were renamed. "Bow Creek" used to come up quite frequently between Canary wharf and West India Quay as the destination on the Stratford Bound trains, "Thames Gateway" is definitely in there along with a few others which i forget. Cannot remember if Millwall Park was one of them or not.
Both of them were left straight and graded ready for a station. The list of station names used to be in the AVIS/PA cupboard in the middle of the B92 stock trains. But if I recall the 2007 stock still showed Bow Creek so it was present on both.
I like your videos and style. I haven't travelled on the DLR in over 20 years so it's great to see some of the updates. I used it a lot when it first opened and didn't even know Mudchute and Island Gardens had moved until I watched this. Keep them coming please.
For some hundreds of years, the Middlesex side of the Thames, including Brockton, was within the diocese of Greenwich and hence part of the county of Kent. Local government reforms in the late nineteenth century changed that.
Used to live nearby at this was my daily station. It's actually nice station and area is indeed very pleasant. Oh and btw, contrary to popular belief - the 3rd platform is actually used from time to time. I have photos to prove it xD
Now I'm not a football person either, but I'm sure that King Edward II didn't play centre-forward for Plantagenet United, although he might have scored an own goal in marrying Isabella whilst carrying on with Gaveston. Perhaps the tenuous connection is his understandable reluctance to sit on red hot pokers.
Oh Jago, people really don't know the history of Millwal football club or the Isle dogs so great to share. Having worked at Millwall and been stuck inside the ground because of a riot outside the ground its all to vivid for me.
One other proposed name for the station was Thermopylae Gate, after the nearby gate into the MIllwall Docks (there was an attempt at the time to rebrand the whole area with that name to ditch the Millwall stench) but that was abandoned both because it was probably a bit *too* classical for the old dockers cottages and also because no bugger could spell it). Also Millwall did actually play for a while on the Mudchute (directly behind the still-standing Lord Nelson pub on the corner of East Ferry Road and Westferry Road (no, I don't know where the space went in the second one)) and contemporary press reports mention the stench from the ground and visiting teams unwillingness to slide or otherwise get themselves covered in it. One last MIllwall FC fact - a big part of the reason they moved south of the river (other than the regular crowd trouble with fans of Thames Ironworks FC, based just off the Island at Blackwall, who went on to become West Ham) was logistical - the MIllwall Extension Railway was slow and unreliable and fans from further afield than MIllwall itself struggled to get there, and the owners believed that moving to a site within walking distance of three stations on three different lines would bring a lot more fans in through the gates. Didn't work - although The Den/New Den is the closest professional ground to the centre of town and, at least until West Ham moved to Stratford, probably the easiest ground in London to get to by public transport, their average gates have never been much about 20k. Serves them right for nicking the name when they did their moonlight flit through the foot tunnel, if you ask me.
Blimey. As a Millwall fan, I was very surprised to hear their name pop up in a video about trains, but I am pleased it did. Though not just a Milllwall problem back in the day, and the fact the Millwall will be Millwall, we unfortunately were the ones that were made a scapegoat and so we got a bad rap out of it. You handled the issue with tact and I'm glad that you explained the situation we now find ourselves in! Funnily enough, what with the recent redevelopment proposal, there was talk of us getting our own station, so you never know; there may be a station called Millwall yet... Also, just to say your channel is great, I thoroughly enjoy your content, and I hope you all the best for the future and will keep watching ya for a while yet. Come on you lions!
I worked at Bristol City in the 90s and the Millwall fans were no better or worse than any other visiting fans. You wouldn't know it from the police presence though.
Made me smile at the thought of away fans getting off at Millwall Park station "by mistake" when for years away fans would get off at West Ham tube station not knowing that they should have stayed on the train until it got to Upton Park.
Fun Fact: the weapon on display is a *Vickers QF-3.7" Gun* A 32 Pounder gun in Army parlance, she was the British counterpart to the Wehrmact's 88mm Flak... only 6mm larger in caliber, and packing even more of an aircraft shredding punch. The heaviest Armoured Fighting Vehicle - that is drivable - in Bovington's collection, the vast *A39 Tortoise* , is armed with one :D . (heavier than a Tiger II and even more heavily armed... yet amusingly well known for mechanical robustness)
@@chromiumphotography5138 Last time I checked; the TOG II isn't in drivable condition at present (partially because of the complex drivetrain), thus why I didn't count her amongst 'that [which] is drivable' ;-) .
I’ve never been to the UK but I always look forward to Jago’s videos (and Joolz Guide to London). My knowledge of the UK comes from being a huge Iron Maiden fan and watching “A Clockwork Orange”. Somehow, Jago puts it all into perspective.
I lived briefly near the Den. I'm grateful it was only a short term let, matchdays were horrendous, between folk determined to park in non existent spots blocking you in car parks, the streams of people and the police presence trying to get residents to follow the crowd even if you wanted the other way. It was only chatting to a friendlier neighbour that I discovered that we were living in the site of the Old Den which was demolished in 1995.
Nope! I've decided not to be baited by London railway station names from now on. Mudchute is perfectly fine. I don't see any problem with it at all. So much so, I can't understand why there isn't say, a Dingleberry Station, OK. With regard to Millwall FC suporters, a joke from some time ago went like this: "I Hate Violence In Sport, I Went To A Boxing Match And A Football Match Broke Out." In a town not far from us called Willunga, there was a place called Slaparse Lane. Unfortunately the residents along that lane, voted to have this historical name replaced with a boring one.
Our village had a lane called Factory Row. It was built by Flemish Weavers in the 17th century. Factory was a home weaving house. The council changed the name to Weavers cottages as the village got "gentrifief
In Oxford there's a residential street called Crotch Crescent, and another called Titup Hall Drive. At one time there was even a bus that had "Titup Hall Drive" on the front of it - lol.
Mr Hazzard. I noticed at 3:03 you included a photo from Bradford in West Yorkshire. The building in the background is a brutalist skyscraper called High Point completed in 1972 and lays abandoned today. I thought you'd want to learn more about it after your video about Robin Hood Gardens.
As a youngster, I remember my local team had a home fixture against Millwall, every building between the station & the football stadium, plus some others in the area, had the windows boarded up in advance of the match.
Another great video! I love the subjects you think up to make a video about; truly inspired. You give history and social context that I know nothing about. 👍
Yesterday (12 July 2023), I set out from Lewisham bound for Stratford. The train was only going to Poplar (unusual) and as it train passed through Mudchute, there was a train in the terminating bay. I never made it to Stratford, and decided to just go back home. At Mudchute the train I saw on the way up, was still there. I got off, took some pictures but failed to get video - four years of having this phone and I still don't know how it works. After all the years travelling through Mudchute, that was the first time I saw a train in the terminating bay.
The ticket machines, as visible bottom right at 0:52, are the ones I used to work on in my last job. I spent a very long, very cold morning trying to coax the ones visible at 0:46 in the centre of the entrance, back into service. After about six hours, I was very glad of the hot food and drink available at the Mcdonald's just up the road in Limehouse!!!
I lived on the Isle of dogs for sixteen years. Mudchute was the nearest station to my house. I have very fond memories of Mudchute, and I think the name is quaint and amusing, and led me to find out many years ago why it was called so.
When the name "Millwall" isn't good enough for a station, so you call it Mudchute. Yeah, someone at TFL was having a laugh at Millwall's expense there, especially as it sounds like a dirty euphemism. Guess he wasn't an Arsenal fan then!
for me it was always Kentish town. every time (and this is obviously down to my wired imagination) i got off there to do a phone repair i saw the signs and though hmm ill get some letter "U" stickers printed out.
As an Aussie with little knowledge of UK Football teams, Millwall always reminds me of the first episode of Black Books... In which some Hooligan types beat Bernard Black to a tax dodging pulp.
In WW2 a hardened battery of AA was built on the mudchute to defend the docks from the Luftwaffe. The concrete bunkers were still there in the eighties. The AA gun was a later addition bringing history to life. I grew up on the Island, the mudchute was a fantastic adventure playground for kids. There was a long abandoned rope factory (very long building) to explore, a stream with tadpoles, more wildlife than the concrete jungle all around. It is truly a great place.
On a slight tangent, I've always thought the address of Millwall's old stadium, Cold Blow Lane, was one of the best you're likely to find. It's so evocative of wet, windy days on the terraces watching your team drag out a painful 0-0-draw.
"Ahhhh makes sense", said all Brits as soon as you said its in Millwall.
That's exactly what I thought too!
Idk if I'm just ignorant regarding sport history, or just too young to have absorbed that piece of general knowledge (mid 20's)
On the other side of the world, in Melbourne there is a widely disliked football team with a reputation for um... "somewhat combative supporters". When a newspaper ran a survey asking people what word they found most offensive, the name of that team topped the list above "four letter words" and various racial epithets. As a result some people refuse to mention it by name and instead refer to it as "The football team representing the suburb between Abbotsford and Fitzroy".
@@kaisalmon1646 I was aware of the Millwall thing cause my school in South London would have kids making "mill bricks", a heavy stone wrapped in compacted newspaper and sellotaped to hell afterwards
@@kaisalmon1646 . Maybe too young Kai? Millwall fans were FIERCE supporters of their team. For example, in West London you didn’t need to check fixtures if they were playing away at Chelsea or Fulham. The number of extra police around was a sure indicator 😉
About 10 years back, I emerged from London Bridge tube station, to a sea of police in full Riot gear in the mainline station. The nearest copper told me to "Give it 15 minutes or so". Before trying to board a train.
"What happened?" I asked, "Some sort of terrorist incident?"
"Worse." He replied "Millwall were playing *I forget the team* AND LOST!"
Funny story I got booted out London Bridge around that time for same but it was Chelski fans - missed my (advance ticket) train from Kings Cross as a result. It wasn't that they were exactly rioting per se, they were just running special service trains completely full of them is all. Although me as a lifelong Liverpool fan probably wouldn't have wanted to be in the middle of them.
My son's first Saturday at college in Southampton was the day of a game against Portsmouth (the two sets of fans hate each other). The new students were warned, in all seriousness, not to go into town that evening.
Back in the last century, a Glaswegian business colleague of mine was driving home from Ibrox after Rangers (his team) had thrashed Celtic 6-0 (or something like that) in the Old Firm derby. After the usual delays in leaving the car park, my colleague was behind the fans who had left Ibrox on foot. His journey home to East Kilbride meant he had to drive through the Celtic stronghold of Castlemilk. When he got to Castlemilk, there was a full scale brawl/punch-up/battle in progress but not a Rangers fan/shirt/scarf in sight! My colleague was ushered through the melee by the police and made his way home. The newspaper report the following day described how the Celtic fans various factions were fighting amongst themselves as to who had caused such a heavy defeat - poor defending/lack of attack/ missed goal opportunities etc.
Millwall lost? Could have been many many teams 😄
@@peterdavy6110 good to see they are playing in different division
“It has an anti aircraft gun, in case there’s any wayward Millwall fans” priceless!
ikr XD
I almost spat my hot chocolate out! 🤣
Was it aimed at the old site of their stadium?
It's the only language they understand.
Manned by the Ack Ack Division of the West Ham Supporters' Club, one surmises.
Cup of tea, full English breakfast and new jago video. Name a better combination, I’ll wait... the perfect Sunday treat
I agree, this comment should be pinned at the top.
Cannabis and alcohol. Bundem
@@liveevil6386 not quite the same vibe as a video about the history of London travel and a traditional breakfast but yeah
I approve this comment.👍🏿
🤣
"Last time I went to the Den, a football match kept interrupting the fights." An old 70s joke.
three english football grounds - I Ludicrous .. ua-cam.com/video/5mLB2_0uvDw/v-deo.html
Oh my god, I remember that joke.
In the US, we have the same joke about hockey games.
@@COBARHORSE1 you beat me to it. LOL
@Maintenance Renegade A yank having a pop at footie, how original.
As a little brown boy in the 70’s born in the east end, Millwall made me terrified. I remain grateful for “Mudchute”.
Why
@@Hamoshekabeka Because of football hooliganism + the National Front + skin heads made me a target.
My (crap) teenage band in the 90s was called Mudchute after the station
We called it mudchute as a kid .When we were kids it was a derelict piece of land that they had the guns on from the war .Was a great place to play as a kid .
Why do/did they have the guns there? Was it an open-air museum? Is it an important site from the war?
@@Vincent_Quak They were there to protect the docks from the Luftwaffe's redevelopment plans. They just never quite got around to removing them afterwards.
@@no-one-in-particular I agree, it's hard to tell. The OP needs to make it clearer! :D
Quite a few places in inmer & outer London had AA Batteries set up in parks & open ground in general; as far out as [then relatively rural] Middlesex.
Most take a fair bit of investigation to identify as such as only the concrete bases remain; but Millwall got luckier than that :D .
@@no-one-in-particular It took a long time to clear away, maybe the port of london authority didnt trust russia in the cold war era either,. The PLA had their own police force from memory, of which the security guards around Canary Wharf are a descendent
Actually I like the name Mudchute; it gives a sense of character.
It’s catchy to me too!
Yep cos of the farm aswell
I’m getting Dickens pick pocket name vibes 😂
If you go back in history, the area known as mudchute was where the spoil from Blackheath was deposited, along with mud which was dredged from the docks in the east end.
Back in the mid to late 80s, I was involved in the operation of the DLR and Mudchute as an area still had that vile stench of mud, it was truly not a pleasant area to be.
I understand it has improved now.
@@paullee5573 lol I was born and bred there it never smelt that bad I grew up playing there mate it was fucking gresat to be around then. Better than now anyway
As I remember, when the DLR opened in 1986, one of it's 'mission statements' was that it's stations were to be on a smaller scale than Underground stations, not only in size but in the area they served. One thing they very much wanted to avoid was the Undergrounds custom of using terms like 'east, west, central' and so on, when naming stations. And so smaller local neighbourhoods, roads and features were to be adopted. A good example was the renaming of Stepney East to Limehouse. So a little local oddity like the Mudchute was very much keeping to this rather than the more general area, Millwall ...though it's true that the DLR didn't want lost fans wandering onto their system looking for a Club that had moved to New Cross seventy-odd years ago!
(Funnily enough, when my cousin and his friends came over from Ireland and went to watch Queens Park Rangers, they missed the kick-off as they naturally went to Queens Park station thinking that's where QPR's ground must be!)
Another such anomaly is the DLR station named 'Abbey Road', some tourists end up here assuming that the famous Beatles album cover photo was shot there 😂
@@PSYCHIC_PSYCHO have you seen the pun-filled sign at Abbey Road DLR station, directing lost fans to St John's Wood?
@@jimtuite3451 No I haven't, but I'm glad it's there
I dont live in London.... I dont even live in the UK.... But I absolutely love your videos! They give me a break in the day, with its infusion of information, great photography and that lovely “dry” sense of humor😉👍👍👍 Its always a great pleasure to watch, and learn from. I cant wait to visit London again, when the world is again a better and safer place. Thank you for the “spirit boost” 👍👍👍🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰
We may be in our death throes as an empire, but for sure a few of us can still do good dry humour; hang on, the floor’s tilting, my feet are getting wet, I can hear the band playing “Nearer my God to Thee”.
Imagine all us Jago fans pouring to London after this corona craze is over :-D We should organize a meetup.
Thankfully in England we have people like Jago who do this sort of thing, for which we are most grateful. With England's long history, there is always something you didn't know or something new to learn. Plenty of people have been here before and left their footprints.
@@martinross5521 Death throes? The Empire disappeared 70 years ago. Maybe you mean the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (or that awkward top-right corner of Ireland). Still, you're right - when all else is lost, dry wit is our last hope.
Richard, of course you’re right. Just that lots of outlets in England still behave as though we still had one. I’m sure the NI “problem” will lead to a united Iteland since we’ve given up supplying them with food as the starter for unification. Our remaining assets are being blacklisted by the EU for tax dodging and criminality! Gotta laugh, wiping up tears with dry wit wipes...
"Millwall looks like bumholes but we can't call it that..."
"I've got an idea!"
Yea the couldn't really call it Poopchute.
Always concerning to have clinkers around one's mudchute.
This kind of puerile joke winnet be tolerated.
Note of interest,Wher Mudchute is now, was aproximatly whre Hawkins and Tipsom Ropemakers works were.I worked there in 1966. On a Wednesday evening. as overtime, my job was to sweep the Ropewalk. A very long shed( Quater mile). There were two Bogies on a small railtraks, which spun the Hemp or cycil yarn into Rope
Ropewalk would have been an interesting station name.
In German, ropewalk is Reeperbahn, which has its own connotations.
@@lionvillelion Was gonna say that, and then I saw your comment,
@@lionvillelion How about Neidemarket in Amsterdam?
@@nanoamp Never knew that! Almost all British ports had at least one ropewalk at one time. So are there lots of Reeperbahns?
As a millwall fan I enjoyed this and have to say it was a fair reflection of the times. A lot has changed for the better since the 80s though. Growing up on the south side of the river, like many other millwall fans, I knew nothing about the actual area of millwall and have only ever been there once just to have a look at the park where one of the former grounds was located. So as usual Jago has been very informative! One minor point - when the football club first left the isle of dogs in 1910 it moved to the den in new cross and not Bermondsey. It was only in the 90s when the club moved to the new den it was technically in Bermondsey! Keep up the fantastic work jago!
I suspect these days the average Millwall fan can't afford the area. A sentence I never thought I would type in the 1980s.
The anti-aircraft gun being 'in case of wayward Millwall fans' - if there isn't a plaque next to it that says this, there should be.
My first job in 1964 was for aa coffee packing company on the Issle of Dogs ( Millwall) West Ferry Road. I passed iy a couple of years ago, and there is now a Plaque in the Pavement saying, '' This is th site of the original Millwall Football Club''
9(opposit John Lennetons Timber Yard)
*Vickers QF-3.7" Gun*
*Eliminates, even the toughest Hooligarian & German stains*
@@jimtaylor294
"Successfully keeping out invading Nazis and returning Millwall fans since 1941"
They'd rather you were "getting off at Mudchute" than "Gan dan Miwaaw".
I was first trying to read "Gan dan Miwaaw" as Dutch until I realised it was an English dialect!
@@chrismcgarry2840 not English as such. Its a foreign language to most Englishmen still
@@jamesshone1677 Most British dialects are foriegn to the other bits of GB to where they're spoken XD.
Speaking of which:
ua-cam.com/video/Cun-LZvOTdw/v-deo.html
You’re more likely to find West Ham supporters around Mudchute than Millwall supporters. Mudchute is in the east end and north of the Thames in Tower Hamlets. Millwall play in Bermondsey in southeast London, and their ground is in the borough of Lewisham (where I grew up) a few miles away.
Back in the late 70s early 80s I used to go to the Mudchute Farm, it seemed massive then, for a city kid to get pony rides was a real treat then. The Isle of Dogs wasn’t a desirable place to go either then, rough as f&!@ was one of the nicer things it was called. I think there was just one bus route on and off the island as there was nothing there apart from residents who very rarely ventured off the island and business relating to the docks, which were all being wound down. The opening of an Asda near the Muschute at the start of the Enterprise Zone development was the start of the rejuvenation of the area.
On behalf of the Mudchute Massive I'd just like to say how nice it is to have the plight of our poor naming brought to attention. None of the other TFL stations take us seriously and quite frankly it hurts.
Rename if East Ferry Road.
wtfuchattin
Me is with you man init!!
@@eattherich9215 I actually think Spindrift or Spindrift Avenue would be nice names tbh. Eastferry works considering Westferry is a thing too.
West Mudchute Massif, or East Mudchute Massif?
I used to live in Staines.
They added "-upon-Thames" to polish it up.
Mudchute-upon-Thames, sounds posher already.
Yeah, theres quite a few Polish in Staines 😉
Staines-upon-Thames always sounds like the the result of a chemical spill to me.
A polished turd? The name that is, the place and the people might be great anyway.
Callie Masters some years ago the locals facetiously called the place St. Aines to sound posher
Mudchute is a good name for the station. The nearby Mudchute City Farm was established on a huge mound of mud formed when the nearby docks were built all those years ago, so Mudchute is very apt. In the 80s I planted a lot of trees there and they're now doing very well!
“A visit to Mudchute Farm” was a chapter in my kid’s English textbook.
So we went there.
They have an AA gun there🤷🏻♂️.
It was nice.
It was raining.
It was ........
muddy!
Happy Undertaker
Is that an alcoholics anonymous gun or an automobile association gun?
I think you should make it clear!!
@@simonwinter8839 he forgot an A 😉
@@obelic71 I'm noted for my stupidity but I don't get it.
@@simonwinter8839 There are no stupid questions only stupid answers and luckily we cant know everything.
triple A or AAA stands for Anti Air Artillery that why i said he forget an A.
Like you mentioned AA is most known for automobile association and/or alcohol anonymous.
Its even possible that the operator of the AAA can be a member of the AA and also go to an AA meeting. 😁
@@obelic71 A bit tautological that (AAA gun) though, isn't it. I'd guess AA gun is a more common designation.
I was on the DLR coming from Deptford Bridge.
When we got to Mudchute a bunch of Australian blokes jumped off, posed for a photo under the Mudchute sign and quickly jumped back on.
Funnily enough, the father of a girl I went out with in the 80s was responsible for the new name. He was on the station naming panel and suggested that the station be named after the farm.
As a child in the early 70s, I was often taken to the mudchute to slide down the inner slopes on a flattened cardboard box, excellent cheap adventure park \m/
"The dock Engineering, Frederic Dockham"
That man found his dream career, I see
Nominative determinism.
I think there was also a geographical element in not calling it Millwall Park. By the 1980s, the football team had been playing south of the Thames for so long, that, outside of the Docklands area, people were probably more aware of Millwall as a South London football team than as an area of the Isle of Dogs. Therefore, calling it Millwall Park may have caused some confusion. Although one would hope that passengers would have noticed that they hadn't gone over or under the Thames!
Moor Park (Metropolitan Line) spelled backwards is Krap Room
And that's an area full of posh nobs (by the golf course where the Bob Hope Classic used to take place in the early 80s).
You know, this offers a possible solution to the problem that you raised in last week's episode about Covent Garden having too many passengers. If they rename "Covent Garden" station as "Football Hooligan In Your Face" station, I'll lay odds that there will be a drop off in usage to more manageable levels. There may be a little trouble fitting the new name onto the roundels though. One problem at a time, please.
I would go with 'Covid Garden'. Saves on paint.
@@KravKernow Good to know the virus has gone.
(that's a Donald Trump joke).
Call it Millwall Garden or Millwall Park then ... about the same length, even if a little geographically inaccurate.
@@iankemp1131 Ah, but as Jago said, that name's ... potency, shall we say, was lost some time ago. It's probably still true that nobody likes them. And that they don't care. However the name is not the waste plutonium metaphor that it once was.
@@TheTM1Channel Yes, fair point. So it's back to Covid Garden then. Hopefully that too will lose its potency in the reasonably near future ...
Before we moved to just around the corner, we were thrilled there was a DLR station for our commute to Bank. By the time we'd moved in, it had been demolished. Had to catch trains from Crossharbour (for the London Arena) for ages.
Which station?
It wasn't British football clubs that were banned from European competitions in 1985, but only English ones. Clubs from the UK's other nations were completely unaffected by the ban.
Not totally unaffected.
Rangers suddenly had a lot of English players because they wanted to still play in Europe.
@@michaelleiper I think he meant fan wise
Over here in NYC we’ve got a station with competing etymologies, but the root is assumed to be a bit more darker: “Spuyten Duyvil”, a station on the Metro-North commuter network.
Quick reminder that New York started out as a Dutch colony, so a lot of Dutch is left in our lexicon, which creates a interesting mix of Native American, Dutch and English names.
The name is thought to ether mean “Spouting Devil” or “To Spite the Devil”.
Devil's Spout, I believe, isn't it?
Millwall actually looks very nice!
It’s worth noting that Millwall FC have actually won family club of the year for their community work recently.
I think the arrival of all seater stadiums was one change, the growing up of the supporters another, and perhaps the gentrification of the docks - Surrey Docks area etc.
@@highpath4776 definitely played a part.
Millwall fans still manage to make a trip there unpleasant but nothing like it used to be.
😂 😂 😂
It certainly is an unexpected name, alongside some of the other pleasanter-sounding places (Canary Wharf, Heron Quays, Island Gardens) but avoiding that unfortunate connection with Millwall certainly makes a lot of sense.
But there’s a certain robust, directness to it. Rather than some jobsworth-derived euphemism or some of the dreadfully fake-sounding names given to modern housing estates.
And it actually has solid historic precedent, being the name of something that was once actually there, or thereabouts.
Probably the least-worst they could find, but congrats to them for sticking to their guns and not inventing something totally false…
There's nothing wrong with funny names for stations. They add character and interest.
Tooting Bec
Cockfosters
Hammersmith
Blackfriars
Harrow on the hill
Elmer's End
Ickenham
Clapham
As a young fan in the 70’s, I was well aware of Millwall’s rep. In a wider sense, football was an altogether different game then! A mate used to be in a local “firm”. The stories I heard about were strong stuff. These guys were a lot more organised than the at-the-time police even suspected. As usual, great vid & very well researched Jago.
The "firms" would often arrange a place to meet up near to the football ground and have a fight there. A weird "macho" ritual, that's captured brilliantly in a number of disturbing films ("I.D." is particularly good).
It's a great shame that Millwall became such a magnet for hooligans, as my late grandfather was a fan from his youth in the 1930s.
Given how unionized the workforce was back then (closed shop & all); it's hardly surprising that large tribalist groups were a thing in sport too.
@@jimtaylor294 What was interesting, despite the later NF/BNP connection was the young West Indian Chap, presumably a Millwall supporter, admidst the melee, yet untouched and seemingly not partaking of the afternoons practical fisticuffs.
I once saw Swindon town v Millwall. The game was rubbish, but the dog handling by the police was really impressive....
Thanks JJ.
My spellchecker has suddenly taken. objection to the initials JH.
Football & Crufts in the same day XD.
As a train enthusiast & football fan (my father supports Millwall!) can I just say thank you for producing such a factual and unbiased video! Football had had, and has, its problems but as somebody who works in the arts, it’s an easy target since it’s popular and gets a lot of unnecessary flack. This is a just and fair assessment!
I'm in America but think I might try going to a soccer game next time I visit London (preferably West Ham, since they're in the Olympic stadium). Do you believe it's safe?
@@kinkisharyocoasters I’m actually a West Ham fan myself. It’s more than safe and you’ll have a lovely time 😊The movies are (at best) dated with their views of football hooliganism.
@@andrewphipps8103 Which teams are the biggest rivals of West Ham?
@@kinkisharyocoasters Probably Millwall or Leyton Orient
Pursers on the Old Kent Road - sadly no longer there, the VW garage I mean - used to owned by the people who owned Millwall FC. They even built a balcony, where they would be able to show off trophies won - the eternal optomists - however Saturday afternoons the Sales manager would get the call " get all the cars off the front, we lost and crowd ain't happy". This story was told to me by the last of the family owners when we purchased dealership from them.
As a gigging muso in the 80s I had a Saturday night residency for a few weeks at the Valentine and Orson, in Bermondsey; me on organ plus a drummer. We did London singalongs, rock 'n' roll, the usual stuff. Occupying the two tables nearest us, and by 10.30, yelling 'No one like us!'...were the Bushwackers. I was happy to get out of there!
I've never lived in London but it's fascinating to learn about the little snippets of history behind buildings and railways and such, your videos are very enjoyable
One of Millwall FC's early grounds on the island was on the old mudchutes, the players used to complain about the smell that they couldn't wash off! 🤢 Also local residents were against calling the station Millwall because they were concerned about away fans turning up there thinking the Den was near by. 🦁👍
I walk past the park and farm all the time and have never been in, never knew about the AA Gun. Now I have to go explore next time I am down there. Intriguing!
I remember when I was living in Oxford, I came out of my office and was face to face with several police horses. I asked the police constable on top of the horse whether there was an EDL march or whether there was just a football match. She replied "Millwall are playing. So both"
Jago, have you seen the film The Firm with Gary Oldman? There’s an interesting line at the end of the film when one of the actors, in character says an improvised line, “if they stop us from going to football we’ll just go elsewhere, it’s doesn’t matter if it’s football, snooker or darts, they’ll never stop us from doing this because it’s who we are and our way of having fun”.
The Firm is a classic film
During the 1977/78 football season the BBC made a documentary about Millwall called F-Troop, Treatment & The Half-Way Line
You can find it on UA-cam.
I travel through Mudchute station almost every day to get to South Quay. I even saw a train at platform 3 once. Millwall’s most infamous moment came at Luton in March 1985. They moved out of the old Den in 1993 into their new all seater ground. There’s even a farm at Mudchute.
It’s closer to mudchute farm than millwall park and it is named mudchute as it is where they dumped the mud from digging the nearby docks which was moved via a chute
I used to live there. You got all the facts. Well done. Used to use the old Island Gardens too.
What an amusing tale. "Millwall," a fairly innocuous name for the area, had such a toxic association that "Mudchute" was better.
If they ever release a Jago Hazard edition of Trivial Pursuit, I'm first in the queue!
Together with fellow Briton Drachinfell they should produce a Trivial Pursuit edition.
Hi Rob & Richard....excellent ideas! Put me down for one.
Some of the football terrace is still visible in Millwall park.
I've always wondered about that name and had assumed it was a relic of 19th century industrialisation, which proves to be correct! But I like it, it has a sort of quaint locational honesty about it in a calling a spade a spade sort of way. No no, the worst-named station in London is also on the DLR: Abbey Road. There's only one Abbey Road and it isn't in the depths of the Essex marshes.
Hey Jago
Thankfully, I only ever policed a single game at the Den. It wasn’t pleasant! I remember seeing a WPC being picked up by a bunch of hooligans, who were supporting the visiting team, who then in turn launched her down a flight of terrace stairs! Oh, the fun we had attempting to arrest them!
My son, who is a senior civil servant within the department for jollity is an ardent fan of Millwall FC... he ain’t a bad lad! 😁
If you meet most Millwall fans, they are an alright Bunch until they get together or get anywhere The New Den. I don't know what triggers them off. Maybe worth a upload in its own right Jago!!
One has to make a distinction between gang criminality (the firms of hooligans) and football supporters. I am not interested in football at all myself, but if you like football, I hope you have a good game.
Gang criminals however, they should be locked away for life with no outside contact.
DCMS ?
as bad the Millwall is...
at least it isn't Slough.
Norwich has a Sloughbottom Park. It's said as Slo bottom.
Whilst job hunting in the 1980s, if you saw a job's location specified as "a desirable Thames Valley location", you just *knew* that they meant "Slough".
(Excellent video, "Jago".)
Was it Sir John Betjeman who wrote: "Come, friendly bombs and fall on Slough , it isn't fit for humans now. "?
@@gravellegb yes it was. Let us not descend into a Slough of despond but celebrate all that is sticky in Mudchute!
We lived in Slough for a while ...all brown. On the one hand, the Mars factory on the other hand...you can guess
It's said that the reason South Bermondsey station retains a wooden platform and very basic passenger shelters is that it's the nearest station to Milwall FC's ground and giving it an upgrade was seen as a total waste of money.
London football: where Millwall play in Bermondsey, West Ham play in Stratford, Arsenal play in Islington, Chelsea play in Fulham and Crystal Palace play in Croydon.
Least Tottenham play in Tottenham - COYS !
And Queens Park Rangers?
They play in Shepherd's Bush. Queens Park has that long tunnel coming into London towards Euston on the train.
@@rjjcms1 Exactly! Queens Park Rangers stadium is in White
City and nowhere near Queens Park!
I believe St Sewage was renamed to Dalston a few years back.
Dalston, that hipster haven?
If you have ever been to Ridley Road, you would get it.
@@eattherich9215 My wife,who is Jamaican, was just talking this morning about Ridley Road market and how she was going to go to Ridley Road Market to by some Cow foot to cook.
It really is delicious but I somehow get the feeling I'm not helping matters!!
I visited the den a few years ago for a game against Derby County. It was my first visit & i didnt really know what to expect after hearing all the stories and seeing THAT movie. Imagine my surprised face when I witnessed proud signs inside the stadium like "Voted Best family club in Championship 201X". Times really have changed... Atleast until a promotion
No point trying to have a barney against Derby County, they reserve their vengence for notts forest.
I’ve been waiting for this video for so long 🤣
Now we need one about Gallion’s Reach which sounds like it belongs in the Silmarillion.
I alway got the impression someone was throwing a bin via a chute from one of them tower blocks and hence the name 😭
Before watching this the name made me think of those chutes made up of connected bins or very large buckets that you sometimes see hanging off the side of tall buildings under construction. They should have a slide in the park for people to whizz down and land in lots of glorious mud.
Maybe you could do a video on the Millwall Docks and Thames Iron Works to explain the rivalry between West Ham ( the irons) and Millwall
You are to England what Paul Hogan was to Australia in the 80s.
All your history and interesting facts and stories are making me want to come see England for myself.
I would love to have a look around half the places you have talked about and it even looks as if I can get to most of them by train
St. Sewage in the East should be the name of West Ham station for similar reasons and because it is adjacent to Sir Joseph Bazalgette's 'Poo pipe'. Interesting that you illustrated it with Bow Road, only two stations along the line.
It's thanks to him that the Thames is full of ships instead of...
How about a video on the "Omphalos" in the park near Mudchute? As in "Nazi occultists seize the Omphalos".
Obviously it isn't what some people think it is, but what is it actually, who built it and why is it there?
It lines up exactly with the leyline that starts with Blackheath Church, runs through the central avenue of Greenwich Park and the Wolfe statute, and the Queens House, neatly dividing the Old Royal Naval College in two.
Interestingly the Passenger Information System on the DLR is still programmed with the names of a few stations that never were, or were renamed. "Bow Creek" used to come up quite frequently between Canary wharf and West India Quay as the destination on the Stratford Bound trains, "Thames Gateway" is definitely in there along with a few others which i forget. Cannot remember if Millwall Park was one of them or not.
Where was Thames Gateway due to be ?
@@highpath4776 might have been Thames Wharf, sorry. It's been a few years. But it was meant to be maps.app.goo.gl/HQZbekeu9Cs7JGdD6
There was another planned station here:
maps.app.goo.gl/UZ1aYa5o7hiq6Nza8
Both of them were left straight and graded ready for a station. The list of station names used to be in the AVIS/PA cupboard in the middle of the B92 stock trains. But if I recall the 2007 stock still showed Bow Creek so it was present on both.
There was the Thames Gateway project as an extension to Dagenham Dock, but I don't think those station names were added.
I like your videos and style. I haven't travelled on the DLR in over 20 years so it's great to see some of the updates. I used it a lot when it first opened and didn't even know Mudchute and Island Gardens had moved until I watched this. Keep them coming please.
For some hundreds of years, the Middlesex side of the Thames, including Brockton, was within the diocese of Greenwich and hence part of the county of Kent. Local government reforms in the late nineteenth century changed that.
I think some reforms were unresolved until 1965 (see Jay Foreman)
Used to live nearby at this was my daily station. It's actually nice station and area is indeed very pleasant.
Oh and btw, contrary to popular belief - the 3rd platform is actually used from time to time. I have photos to prove it xD
Now I'm not a football person either, but I'm sure that King Edward II didn't play centre-forward for Plantagenet United, although he might have scored an own goal in marrying Isabella whilst carrying on with Gaveston.
Perhaps the tenuous connection is his understandable reluctance to sit on red hot pokers.
Oh Jago, people really don't know the history of Millwal football club or the Isle dogs so great to share. Having worked at Millwall and been stuck inside the ground because of a riot outside the ground its all to vivid for me.
This is mad relevant after the Euro2020 final, great video
One other proposed name for the station was Thermopylae Gate, after the nearby gate into the MIllwall Docks (there was an attempt at the time to rebrand the whole area with that name to ditch the Millwall stench) but that was abandoned both because it was probably a bit *too* classical for the old dockers cottages and also because no bugger could spell it). Also Millwall did actually play for a while on the Mudchute (directly behind the still-standing Lord Nelson pub on the corner of East Ferry Road and Westferry Road (no, I don't know where the space went in the second one)) and contemporary press reports mention the stench from the ground and visiting teams unwillingness to slide or otherwise get themselves covered in it.
One last MIllwall FC fact - a big part of the reason they moved south of the river (other than the regular crowd trouble with fans of Thames Ironworks FC, based just off the Island at Blackwall, who went on to become West Ham) was logistical - the MIllwall Extension Railway was slow and unreliable and fans from further afield than MIllwall itself struggled to get there, and the owners believed that moving to a site within walking distance of three stations on three different lines would bring a lot more fans in through the gates. Didn't work - although The Den/New Den is the closest professional ground to the centre of town and, at least until West Ham moved to Stratford, probably the easiest ground in London to get to by public transport, their average gates have never been much about 20k. Serves them right for nicking the name when they did their moonlight flit through the foot tunnel, if you ask me.
Blimey. As a Millwall fan, I was very surprised to hear their name pop up in a video about trains, but I am pleased it did. Though not just a Milllwall problem back in the day, and the fact the Millwall will be Millwall, we unfortunately were the ones that were made a scapegoat and so we got a bad rap out of it. You handled the issue with tact and I'm glad that you explained the situation we now find ourselves in! Funnily enough, what with the recent redevelopment proposal, there was talk of us getting our own station, so you never know; there may be a station called Millwall yet... Also, just to say your channel is great, I thoroughly enjoy your content, and I hope you all the best for the future and will keep watching ya for a while yet. Come on you lions!
I worked at Bristol City in the 90s and the Millwall fans were no better or worse than any other visiting fans. You wouldn't know it from the police presence though.
Made me smile at the thought of away fans getting off at Millwall Park station "by mistake" when for years away fans would get off at West Ham tube station not knowing that they should have stayed on the train until it got to Upton Park.
Growing up, I once got a honking whiff of river dredge. Fortunately the powers that be were not so inspired and name the station Stinking Heaps.
Fun Fact: the weapon on display is a *Vickers QF-3.7" Gun*
A 32 Pounder gun in Army parlance, she was the British counterpart to the Wehrmact's 88mm Flak... only 6mm larger in caliber, and packing even more of an aircraft shredding punch.
The heaviest Armoured Fighting Vehicle - that is drivable - in Bovington's collection, the vast *A39 Tortoise* , is armed with one :D .
(heavier than a Tiger II and even more heavily armed... yet amusingly well known for mechanical robustness)
TOG II sits crying in its corner in Bovington! Don't let Jingles know you are dissing his baby.
@@chromiumphotography5138 Last time I checked; the TOG II isn't in drivable condition at present (partially because of the complex drivetrain), thus why I didn't count her amongst 'that [which] is drivable' ;-) .
I remember first hearing about Millwall football club back in the 1980s on the American TV news program, 60 Minutes.
Kasey Keller became the first American goalkeeper to play for an English professional club when he joined Millwall in the early 90s.
So Millwall FC fans were rowdy hooligans, well I never! That's what I like about Jago's channel, you learn something every day!
I’ve never been to the UK but I always look forward to Jago’s videos (and Joolz Guide to London). My knowledge of the UK comes from being a huge Iron Maiden fan and watching “A Clockwork Orange”. Somehow, Jago puts it all into perspective.
I lived briefly near the Den. I'm grateful it was only a short term let, matchdays were horrendous, between folk determined to park in non existent spots blocking you in car parks, the streams of people and the police presence trying to get residents to follow the crowd even if you wanted the other way. It was only chatting to a friendlier neighbour that I discovered that we were living in the site of the Old Den which was demolished in 1995.
Nope! I've decided not to be baited by London railway station names from now on. Mudchute is perfectly fine. I don't see any problem with it at all. So much so, I can't understand why there isn't say, a Dingleberry Station, OK. With regard to Millwall FC suporters, a joke from some time ago went like this: "I Hate Violence In Sport, I Went To A Boxing Match And A Football Match Broke Out."
In a town not far from us called Willunga, there was a place called Slaparse Lane. Unfortunately the residents along that lane, voted to have this historical name replaced with a boring one.
We have a Mearse lane in the hamlet of Bell End, but I think it is pronounced "meerse" so nothing vaguely rude there.
Our village had a lane called Factory Row. It was built by Flemish Weavers in the 17th century. Factory was a home weaving house. The council changed the name to Weavers cottages as the village got "gentrifief
In Oxford there's a residential street called Crotch Crescent, and another called Titup Hall Drive. At one time there was even a bus that had "Titup Hall Drive" on the front of it - lol.
New bloody phone..... gentrified.
@@Peasmouldia Ah, I thought you were going for the olde worlde spelling!
Mr Hazzard. I noticed at 3:03 you included a photo from Bradford in West Yorkshire. The building in the background is a brutalist skyscraper called High Point completed in 1972 and lays abandoned today. I thought you'd want to learn more about it after your video about Robin Hood Gardens.
Mr. Hazzard?
It's actually Sir Jago!!
Or if it isn't, it should be !!
@@simonwinter8839 When addressing somebody as Mr, their surname always follows. Let's not bend the rules here
@@archechme I reckon that me Knighting jago is smashing the rules in that case !!
As a youngster, I remember my local team had a home fixture against Millwall, every building between the station & the football stadium, plus some others in the area, had the windows boarded up in advance of the match.
Another great video! I love the subjects you think up to make a video about; truly inspired. You give history and social context that I know nothing about. 👍
Right in the mudchute....... 🧐
Keep up the good work fella and stay safe!
Millwall moved to Cold Blow Lane in NewCross before they ended up in Bermondsey.
It is nice to think that I have perhaps seen you on the trains around east london in my past making one of these excellent videos!
Yesterday (12 July 2023), I set out from Lewisham bound for Stratford. The train was only going to Poplar (unusual) and as it train passed through Mudchute, there was a train in the terminating bay. I never made it to Stratford, and decided to just go back home. At Mudchute the train I saw on the way up, was still there. I got off, took some pictures but failed to get video - four years of having this phone and I still don't know how it works. After all the years travelling through Mudchute, that was the first time I saw a train in the terminating bay.
No mudslinging here :)
A visit to the fields of the mud chute after prolonged and torrential rain is like a trip to a bouncy castle. Try it - enjoy.
The ticket machines, as visible bottom right at 0:52, are the ones I used to work on in my last job. I spent a very long, very cold morning trying to coax the ones visible at 0:46 in the centre of the entrance, back into service. After about six hours, I was very glad of the hot food and drink available at the Mcdonald's just up the road in Limehouse!!!
I lived on the Isle of dogs for sixteen years. Mudchute was the nearest station to my house. I have very fond memories of Mudchute, and I think the name is quaint and amusing, and led me to find out many years ago why it was called so.
When the name "Millwall" isn't good enough for a station, so you call it Mudchute. Yeah, someone at TFL was having a laugh at Millwall's expense there, especially as it sounds like a dirty euphemism. Guess he wasn't an Arsenal fan then!
5:48" Those sheep are Millwall fans, and they have been baa'ed from matches.
Millwool fans, surely?
🤣 to both comments, priceless!
Fascinating stuff. Love these slightly longer ones
for me it was always Kentish town. every time (and this is obviously down to my wired imagination) i got off there to do a phone repair i saw the signs and though hmm ill get some letter "U" stickers printed out.
As a crystal Palace fan... I'm OK with mudchute 😊
As an Aussie with little knowledge of UK Football teams, Millwall always reminds me of the first episode of Black Books... In which some Hooligan types beat Bernard Black to a tax dodging pulp.
In WW2 a hardened battery of AA was built on the mudchute to defend the docks from the Luftwaffe. The concrete bunkers were still there in the eighties. The AA gun was a later addition bringing history to life. I grew up on the Island, the mudchute was a fantastic adventure playground for kids. There was a long abandoned rope factory (very long building) to explore, a stream with tadpoles, more wildlife than the concrete jungle all around. It is truly a great place.
On a slight tangent, I've always thought the address of Millwall's old stadium, Cold Blow Lane, was one of the best you're likely to find. It's so evocative of wet, windy days on the terraces watching your team drag out a painful 0-0-draw.