even though I said this in the video, remember that this video is all fun speculation - not only do we not understand the game fully yet, but hoyo can do whatever the heck they want in the future. But I still think it's very interesting to think about and can be helpful for future planning :) also don't forget to enjoy the characters you have now~
Remember: There are better options but what matters is what you can currently use and have... For F2p tier list all the characters listed will last for 2 years.
I think it's not power creeping if a 5 star is introduced with really similar functions to a 4 star. Rather than "power creep" it's mostly considered "upgrade" since power-wise, 4 stars are incomparable to 5 stars. Power creeping could be said if 5 stars get overpowered by another 5 star with almost the same functions as the other.
Yup. My only gripe is that 4 star characters cost as much as 5 stars to upgrade/ascend. Whereas 4 star weapons are like 20% cheaper. Idk why they did this.
@@TacticalDimplesisn’t this also true in other Hoyo games? Like I think it also takes the same level of resources to level characters and upgrade their talents in Genshin, if I’m not mistaken.
Right now it's hard to imagine what their intentions are with Defenders. They seem like an amalgamation of Stunners and Support, but master of neither.
I think people don't understand how to play Ben. To do his perfect guard counter you have to hit his special right as the enemy hits you rather than when it does the typical counter-flash animation. At level 40 he has more attack than my Ellen due to his Defense scaling (they have similar drive disc investment, Ellen a little more); his attack's over 2000 while Ellen's is at about 1600. Then Ben's block counter scales at like 800% damage and 500% daze - add to that his +16% Crit rate passive and you have a powerhouse.
None of the classes make sense rn but I think they will one day release a powerceep defense character that inevitably does more stun damage than your average stun unit and more damage than a DPS unit all while providing defensive support.
My (totally speculatory) prediction is that there will be a special type of gamemode where defense units will rule. Like some sort of endless survivability mode or just a mode where the enemies are hyper agressive.
People are definitely sleeping on Ben. He can do almost everything. He even has his own type of counter in perfect guard -- if you pair him with a good support he can teleport around the arena inflicting daze, burn, and healthy damage while being *incredibly fast* when you do the proper swapping and cancels.
Yeah I think a lot of content creators are undervaluing him. Maybe more of it is just “comfort” than I realize but Jello does usually factor comfort in when talking Genshin so even that’s not nothing, and the fact he sometimes steals mvp from S11 on my burn team is insane to me. I’m not saying he won’t get powercrept, and possibly sooner rather than later, but I think he’s more of a question mark now which was his first instinct for placement.
@@LegolasTNMVP at the end of the battles indicates the amount of decibels generated for your ult, not damage. So that only indicates that either you on-field him a lot or he generates a lot of decibels.
My m6 ben completely destroys the marionettes and i'm having a hard time fighting those before when using ellen or zhu yuan. Ben completely makes them a mob
Jane Doe doesn't powercreep Nekomata because they fill totally different roles. In fact, since Neko does more damage to enemies that have Assault applied to them, a Jane/Neko team would actually be pretty scary
I mean, Neko doesn't proc Jane's passive (while Jane does proc Neko's), so you'd probably want another Anomaly in that team for disorder (Most likely Grace for now), or Qingyi for stun
I presume that wil be similar to Genshin's Powercreep where characters can still be competive with the right teams and knowing how to play them right. I just hope that its not a HSR situation where the game almost punish you for not having the right characters
hsr is a turn based game, i think the nature of turn based games pretty much needs powercreep to keep the formula from getting stale. I don't think (or at least i hope) zzz won't have to follow thsi formula.
@@sharkshimi5451Not necessarily, the problem is that Star Rail has a stupidly simple gameplay so you have little room for skill expression or "getting good" with a character, with your only options being to get new characters or farm like crazy for perfect Relics
It's going to be the same for this game. Once you have a stun character for every element there won't be a reason to pull a new stun character until they power creep an old one . And eventually there is going to be a stun/support/defense unit that is going do more damage than a DPS unit.@@sharkshimi5451
There is no way Soukaku goes the distance IMO, she's way too clunky and her chain attack takes way too long and is a really obvious flaw. I could be wrong but I expect her to be powercrept. I think Nicole is more likely to be Bennet because there's no way we can just look at defense shred and grouping and not see the value.
this, everyone praising soukaku cause she buff massive attack and ice dmg, only ice, and that's not the whole team only unit after soukaku swapped the ice buff is increase. soukaku is too overused and people not even want to try a nicole cause everyone sayin soukaku busted. Nicole with 40% dmg reduce would be future proof by itself. It's just sad
@@DeehStars one reason because many plays ellen as main dps, and lets be real, soukaku is 100x more suitable as ellen's support than nicole, on other teams though that is not the case
Yeah + Soukaku takes up so much field time during chain attack that it'll have a skill requirement if players want to maximise dps during enemy stun time (get the buff before stun)
Totally agree, I started using Soukaku in the full ice team with Von Lycaon and Ellen but she is just sooo slow, swapped her with Nicole for one fight even tho she isn't an ideal fit, but damn everything just melts now and the gameplay is so much more fluid, wish I could use Nicole in 2 teams :D It boggles my mind how everyone gets a Nicole and still so many just sleep on her
@@DeehStars I mean, the thing is, who tf is supposed to use Nicole?? when Zhu Yuan wasnt even in the game. People will understand eventually now that there is ether dps
In one of the lore things you can read in the game it says that the five elements are the only ones “known at this time.” They are definitely setting up for more.
All I'm gonna say is my M2 W1 Ellen Joe isn't going anywhere anytime soon lol. Got a f2p God account, Myabi would have to be CRACKED for me to pull on her, but I really just hope they make her electric.
I’m in the same boat, that play upgrade at M2 is AMAZING, and chaining it right in a bosses face is so absolutely satisfying, and the ease of which building ice stacks is so smooth, it’s almost a different character
@@aidanbarrick4326 I’ve gotten to where now I’ll wait to just about 4/5ths of a bar, and switch in saukaku to flag buff, that usually baits an Ellen switch in, and then I can just do a full cycle with full ice buffs. It’s so smooth. It was well worth the investment getting it
One reason why Genshin is so little powercreep is because of elemental reactions. Characters kits are deadlifted almost entirely by the elements and how well they use them. (Case in point: Kuki Shinobu, who changed from just healer to hyperbloom dps). ZZZ does have elemental reactions of some degree (more like elemental stacking.) If they want to buff characters like Billy or Corin, all they need to do is introduce a support that specifically increases anomaly centric damage, or a support that turns any DPS into an Anomaly character + some restrictions. This would also mean they themselves are futureproof as they can work with any kind of DPS character. This ofc doesn't need to be a character, but a new element can work as well with the same properties. At base, attribute anomalies already deal greater damage than elemental reactions at base, so I can definitely see something like this working. Also, character levels currently only go up to 60. I think there's more freedom at Hoyo at increasing this cap in the future.
At 17:23 , I think you don’t want it to be like genshin, since klee was the 1.0 5* dps, who got powercrept in 2 patches by hu tao… At the same time, I hope it’s more like a Ganyu and Ayaka situation, where both are good at different things, but relatively close with each other in terms of power (funnily two ice dps comparisons). Also one last tangent is that nicole is, I dare say, much more future proof compared to Soukaku, truly believing soukaku is being too overated at the moment. I’d switch their positions if it was up to me.
The only reason why you could anything called Powercrept ina Singleplayer Game is if you sweat Endless Modes or what not that increase extremly in difficulty Every casual Player should not care about it and just pull and play whoever you like the most honestly
Plz dont bro. Honkai impact is a mess right now, they are droping s ranks back to back powercreeping every valk from part one. The worst part is that part 2 valks only do the job well if they are paired with part 2 valks, because if you try to use them with part 1 valks they arent even good at all
Putting Anby in "powercrept instantly" is insane to me ngl. Strongly disagree with that. Swap Nicole and Soukaku. The core of Anby + Nicole is really good + DEF shred will have a better long term value than Soukaku's ATK buff IMO.
For Lucy, off field damage is something to keep an eye on, I’ve seen the piggies do a ton of damage when fighting an enemy that mostly stays put, which might be a limiter. It’s also worth considering that while her buff is lower, its buffing the whole team, as opposed to soukakus single character buff, she buffs her own off field damage and would be better in quick swap teams as well as buffing any future off field damage dealers that release. I do like soukaku too, but she’s too clunky, Lucy feels so good to play.
Hoping it's a lot closer to Genshin than Star Rail when it comes to powercreep. I feel like the units I pulled at the start of my account (patch 2.3) in Genshin have been powercrept less than stuff I pulled in Star Rail like 8 months ago and it's not even close.
I think one thing should be considered as well. Ellen is a very proactive unit her raw dps doesn’t just disappear because Miyabi releases. I think the case between them will be who do you prefer gameplay wise
I don't even think miyabi is ice anymore, her Cutscene made her look more like a fire character (blue flames) but idk tbh she looked electro too when cutting through those mobs
Yeah, look at ops like Corin and Anton. They both like the enemy to be stunned/immobile so they can get their slower + hold attacks off. Their elements is what separates them. Meanwhile Corin compared to Billy, while both being physical, play drastically differently with Billy being super mobile once you get used to how he functions. Then you get into how some ops are super focused on single target while others have pretty big AoE. Currently single target damage is king with very little cleave or AoE, but that's content design instead of an issue with the current roster. There is plenty of space to expand into right now, especially if "X fight wants single target and mobility, Y fight wants AoE, Z fight wants some cleave but mobility isn't that important". Less power creep and more "content match creep".
@@JelloZoneZero it would just be the same case as ganyu and ayaka, both are at the same power level, its just up to the player which playstyle they prefers the most
In a game where you can't necessarily guarantee you'll get every character when they're new unless you whale, every account is going to have it's personal best characters. I decided to roll for the characters I like and not stress like I did with Genshin. I kinda ruined that game for myself sadly.
I did the same in Genshin and really regretted it. No matter how many new and shiny DPS banners I rolled on because of FOMO, I always wound up coming back to my trusty triple crowned Yoimiya 😂 I could’ve saved myself a lot of headache (and money) by only pulling for the characters that I really loved. I won’t make the same mistake again with this game 😌
@@nyaaalex I'm jealous of your Yoimia! I always wanted her but I was worried too much about the meta and I already had Hu tao. Good luck on your ZZZ journey and good luck on your pulls!
@@gogiantrobotproductions3907 you’re so kind, thank you! I love Hu Tao as well and would bring her out on occasion, but always wound up going back to using my bestgirl. Good luck on your pulls and journey as well!
I made some mistakes on star rail and on genshin too. Definitely learned in these games it’s better to have op support characters than to have op dps and lackluster support characters. Just hope they come out with some cool looking/fun to use supports to help me make smart decisions lol.
@@gnarlyboyjai yeah, Star Rail was definitely a learning experience for me as well! I was thankfully a lot better there than Genshin, but I’m hoping that ZZZ releases versatile supports sooner rather than later.
I'd say it's also gonna depend on the newly added enemy types. In the current build of the game, most of the notheworthy enemies are weak to either Ice or Aether, making Ice-based characters like Ellen and Soukaku shine. It is entirely possible however that in the future content other elements may start playing a bigger role. So instead of say, DPS role being dominated by one character (like it's currently with Ellen), we'll also have to consider what element to take for each battle, instead of just defaulting to one team for every fight. Then again, I'm new to gacha games, so I'm not sure where the developer may want to go with with things.
it will and always happen. there will be future characters that will be just an even better unit than the early limited and standard banners, a future ice dps will eventually come that does ellens job better with more effects, passives or better team compositions
Yeah, unfortunately Ellen is limited to ice teams and maid teams. Next ice dps may not outright powercreep her however they might have more flexible with their compositions.
Considering all the eventual roles, elements, AND squads, I'm pumped for how endless these team combinations are going to be. Also the possibility of double element characters like Zhu Yuan since her kit specifies Physical and Ether (unless that's a one off) 👀
I don't think Zhu Yuan dealing phys damage means anything special. Ellen's attack can deal Phys damage as well if you don't have charges. However, anomaly can only be applied when a unit's damage is matching their element type (Zhu Yuan can't apply assault at all).
Most characters do physical damage on normal attacks and a little bit of their element after using a skill or after a certain hit in their attack chain.
I think honestly that this game will probably get to the point where it's a bit more like honkais powercreep down the line. Their powercreep is basically just "use the newest character".
Major problems with Soukaku being overrated. She’s already being swapped out by Nicole in China. Her problem is multifold. Too much field time compared to other Supports. Her EX skill is super clunky, leaving her vulnerable too long compared to other Supports. Using her Chain attack is actually a significant DPS loss because of how long it takes compared to any other unit in the game. Her buff scales worse over time compared to Nicole whose Defense shred improves over time. Soukaku only buffs one unit only one time. Calling her Bennett is the greatest falsehood. Lucy buffs the entire team with her EX skill, and reapplies with her Chain and Ultimate. Soukaku is BiS solely for a mono Ice hypercarry team comp. This is why v1.0 tier lists are always painful to look at.
She’s an A rank. She’s really good at buffing an ice dps. That will always be her niche role. The tier lists are limited to what we have available rn. As of rn she is great because a lot of endgame content favors ice teams and the first banner was an ice dps who greatly benefits from her buffs. I don’t see the issue lol. When she gets powercrept, she’ll get powercrept. Awesome. She’ll still be viable In mono ice teams if more ice dps units drop and if you can’t afford to go for whatever limited ice support powercreeps her 👌🏽
Also a bit easier to get 4-star cinemas in ZZZ compared to Genshin (especially if they put all of them in the shop), so even if they release a new ice support character in a few months what are the chances that people won't have a bunch of Soukaku cinemas that still make him comparable? There's also the faction thing you mentioned, where you can theoretically use 2 Ice supports because one of them is used for their faction instead of element and the other one is used on your 2nd team (or 3rd team? who knows what happens). They could even make an endgame content that's similar to Imaginarium Theater from Genshin, it checks so many boxes for Hoyo in giving people extra reasons to pull for characters.
Something I wish people would dive into is how characters rank (S rank characters) with Mindscape effects. Like sure most f2p arnt going to MS5, and heck even people like me willing to spend some money probably won’t go that far, but for instance Ellen at M2 is absolutely fucking BONKERS. It’s such a massive upgrade to her play style and damage. And I think it would be noteworthy for future characters like ‘This new dps is tier 1.5, but if you get ms3 they’re tier Ex. Meanwhile this dps is tier 0 but their mindscape doesn’t move them up till Ms5’ knowing how far a Mindscape might push someone or change their style really would change it. Like you almost can’t compare a MS2 Ellen Joe to a regular one.
Because this might happen I am saving for limited banner since launch. Already got more than 17k polychromes. Can’t wait to massively spend two years from now
Miyabi definitely in the Hard to say category but im hoping she a S rank Physical with insane crit valuables and her own kits. Possibly even able to solo and stun on her own with high anomaly. She just comes off like a anniversary character to me since the demand for her is high and im willing to skip for awhile to focus her. Hard gamble but my account should be fine.
Genshin started off with 2 per patch as well for the first few patches, then once they started reruns it slowed down to 1 per patch and has stayed pretty much the same. Star Rail did not slow down though, they implemented double banners really early on so they could continue releasing 2 new characters per patch. My personal theory is that ZZZ will slow down like Genshin, due to two things: only needing 6 characters to fill out your roster compared to 8, and the character complexity (in terms of stuff that has to be developed) seems more similar to Genshin than Star Rail.
I'm hoping Miyabi is reworked to a Lightning DPS, I think it'd make sense from what we've seen of her so far and we don't have any characters in that role yet
Power creeping characters isnt a problem in this game since you can do pass shiya with solo Billy run. as long as we don't go the HSR route where enemies start scaling with the Damage new characters are putting out
honestly speaking i have 2 potentials to give you Anton and Koleda their core kits allow them to work as follows Anton could possibly be a shock Anamoly enabler (if i understand his core skill) think maybe he needs some shock anomaly nuker Koleda chain attack enhancer possibly she will work in a team that just keeps swapping character a Cinematic team maybe support units that will allow koleda to down enemies at a nuclear speed and Ben seems to be a slow swap every 7 seconds nuke damage dealer
Defense Agents seems to be very hybrid archetype. Ben does buff (crit rate), defense utility (shield), "decent" DPS for A-Rank noAttacker and his kit is around hight crit dmg counter attack. So a quick swap sub dps buffer. Hoyo try things but I dont know what. Seth, the 1.1 defense electric Agent seems to be hybrid too in the same way, pretty interesting. For me its better than Stunner that just stun to create a dps windows. Def Agent could be a universal (Mono Attribute or Anomaly team) sub dps support. We need to see the S-Rank version to conclude on that. Miyabi is a huge mystery because she was in the cbt1 (and like soukaku wind type) so the guessing that she will be release this years is fair. Certain ppl said its just Ayaka case in Genshin, present in cbt and was release the 2nd year. But rumors said that she maybe will be in 1.3, its really soon and if she is a Ice attacker ... its really soon for power creep Ellen, internet will be in fire. MAYBE ... she will be anomaly with a unique kit around freeze because I dont see Ellen be replace this soon, if rumors are right (even if release for this year). The Hoyo strategy for power creeping characters cant be compare to HSR because turn base game arent like Action games in term of stats balance vs end game. In turn base game power creep is brutal, in action game not really even in Hoyo games. In Honkai Impact power creep is around a year, in genshin its special. Hoyo have bet on fan service more than the meta and power creep because the main audience aren't attract to it, so its really slow and not so important. Ganyu had scared the community when she release (easy game blablabla) and after that she became the sealing reference for a long period of time.
Sons of Calydon are supposedly going to add a fire anomaly, physical defense, and fire dps(lighter). Lighter probably is gonna be cool but he’s an A rank for sure, not power creeping soldier at all. Burnice is presumably fire anomaly(could be A or S). She has dual flamethrowers, makes sense to be anomaly tbh. Caeser is a physical defender (most likely S and also their leader). Doesn’t really seem like koleda will get powercrept soon. Section 6 is coming soon too and they have no fire units nor do they have any stunners. The idol faction could be interesting, haven’t seen too many leaks other than the black haired girl’s dual spiked weapons and the fact that one of them has like a mech form or something.
So your basis for whether or not most of the characters gets power crept is if a new agent comes out with the same element and role. While I understand that for A ranks who get replaced with S ranks, how can we be sure that will be the case for S ranks? For example, if more fire characters get added, how do we know they will be better than Koleda for Stun or S11 for damage? In S11's case, wouldn't there be a higher chance of getting more agents from the same faction to synergize with her? I'm new to hoyoverse games, but do they tend to make future S ranks (or 5 stars) just have better stats than existing ones?
Jane Doe also doesn't powercreep Piper because they're different factions. In the same way that I'm excited to pull for Qingyi because although she's an electric stunner like Anby, she's part of the Police faction so I can run a comp with Grace, Qingyi, and Jane, and have all of their passives on. Also their playstyles are completely different. Additionally, if we look at an existing 'powercreep' example of Nekomata vs Billy, they have completely different build paths, playstyles. and team comp desires. Billy is all about figuring out his crouching shot and getting frequent chain attacks so that he can ult with +100% ult dmg. Neko is about triggering EX special assault bonus and doing back attacks. If mihoyo keeps this up, I will be happy with whoever they put out.
They might release Miyabi next year, when a new element will be added actually. And give her a new signature support of the same element instead of Sokaku (who we now think will be useful with her)
That would be an odd anomaly(no pun intended). One of this games selling points is the factions. If Harumasa and Yanagi are releasing within the next few patches then Miyabi would have to release around the same time as them. Especially since they have character models and animations already
I really hope this follows Genshin, in that the 4-stars we get are still viable, and any competent team can clear Sprial Abyss! Lately, Genshin's Spiral Abyss has taken a bit of a turn for the worse, but I'm hoping that this game can keep most characters at a viable level for at least a few years!
I think anomaly characters are generally resistant to powercreep because you can run 2 anomaly characters right? Kind like how dot teams in hsr generally work hand in hand aside for bs powercreeping sampo(i mean it's obvious that a 5 star is going to be better)
Me finding out Miyabi's element after spending all my primos on Ellen :( The only cope argument against it is that archons/emanators have been meta or archetype defining, and if void hunters are ZZZ's version of that just another ice dps won't do it.
i got a c2 ellen with her sig weapon in like 80 pulls(F2P), regardless of what miyabi is I don't think she'll be replacing my shork. Kinda just reminds me how if you invest in a character enough, you'll be fine regardless
If they make a healer in this game, it will be insane game breaking. Without the need of healer, it will be a powercreeping game which only focus on damage and more damage with different elements.
I genuinely don't think this guy understand how future proof Rina is. She extends Shock and gives PEN Ratio to the team base on her on. Any character who benefits from Shock will want her.
until they introduce more diverse game modes this is a moot point for zenless. i HIGHLY doubt it goes the genshin route where it doesn't introduce more difficult game modes outside spiral abyss/shiyu defense, it already has simulated universe/hollow zero. then again, any team you like can barbecue chicken that game mode because the buffs are so strong there anyway.
I wouldn't say Anby is power crept by Qingyi. This is similar to the Xingqiou and Yelan situation is genshin impact. where they both offer something different (Yelan has more damage but no damage reduction and lower hydro application unless at C2). Also, many teams in gensin at the time needed Xingqiou, but you only had one of him, there for having Yelan as a second Xingqiou was still useful. for ZZZ Anby is the only stun agent you can grantee, with there being many teams needing a stun agent having Qingyi to serve as a second Anby would also be useful for many people.
It was a fun speculative video to watch! I do hope as well that they change Miyabi to e.g. electro crit dps, or any other would be great. I wonder how much it will matter in short term and in long term. I mean how much can it matter whether the newest dps does more damage. Maybe if they make the enemies more bulkier then sure it will matter, but otherwise, playing well will most likely outperform simple "powercreep". At least, I hope they don't just flat out make enemies impossible to beat in SD to S rank without the new shiny DPS this soon in the game.
Im really hoping miyabi gets a rework maybe to ice anomaly or something instead of ice dps not only because power creep and replacing ellen but getting a character has such a similar role to another 5 star in the first year of the game is just kind of lame, thats 2 characters with same role and element whithin a year of each other regardless if she doesnt get a rework im still going to pull for her because she seemed really cool from her cutscene in the story
I really hope they change miyabi, make her be able to pair with ellen, she was already kinda a stunner plus dps. Or make her anomoly. Idk, having her come out as attack ice dps is kinda wierd if she comes in 1.3.
Quick question I haven't had clarified elsewhere. When you have 6 of the same drive disk on a character, do you gain the 4 piece passive and then another 2 piece separate one for the extra 2? Or does it not work that way
The whole Belobog going to fall off the quickest. Grace going to be power creep by the Electro Anomaly real soon. (Section6 isn't far away at all). I have a feeling Plain stunners all going to get power creep as we get Defense and Anomaly that can Stun. Nicole will last a while, Rina and Lycaon keeping Victoria them matter for a bit longer. that's my prediction.
One thing about Anby is that she has pretty good cinemas. It's hard to say if Qingyi will walk all over her even with full cinemas but I think she will hold her value for quite a while for f2p and low spenders. At the moment we only have 3 stun characters and I only have my Anby lol. Her being a Cunning Hare kind of ties her to the viability of Nekomata tho I guess. Here's to hoping she ages like fine wine! 😅
My problem with your tier list is, that you only factor in what the characters can do but not how their playstyle effects rotations. For example, Soukaku already fell off because she takes too much field time. That's why people prefer Lucy and Nicole as supports. Also Soukaku is really only good in ice teams, while Lucy is great in any team. And when we get more def reducing supports, the atk buffers will fall off even more since reducing def is way better against higher level enemys already.
it doesnt look like there are any qiqi/yanqing in the game luckily. lycaon seem to be the most futureproof standard 5* character imo. he is a stunner, in the maid faction and ice element. he can be slotted into any future ice dps team and probably be good for years. maybe nekomata will age like fine wine if there is a physical support/stunner who buff team backstab dmg.
8:59 Miyabi was a wind character?? Oh man I’d love that more! They didn’t make what her element is very overt in the cutscene in-game. I would hate for Ellen to get powercrept so quickly as an Ice DPS. :///
I think pretty much every 5 star character will not be completely powercrept in the first year but after one year (they should still have a "niche", even if another unit does the role better in a vacuum). But after one year, my impression is that every character can be powercrept, even limited banner ones. I'm guessing it's going to be more similar to HSR than genshin, where a character available at release (like Bennett) will still be at the top of the meta 4 years later. My guess is that HoyoV sees the available-at-launch overpowered 4 star characters in Genshin as a mistake.
*aesthetic ascetic /əˈsɛtɪk/ adjective characterized by severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons.
I don't understand the role/element imbalance that is going to continue in 1.1. There is only one A rank stunner, no foreseen physical or ether stunner, and now TWO electro stunners. There are three physical attackers and two anomaly masters, and if you count anomaly as DPS, that's now FIVE physical DPS. Available DPS for other elements is paltry. Ben WAS the only defender, but he's getting company. Won't be such a lonely bear anymore. And yeah, missing physical support. The enormous number of physical DPS and lack of stunners bugs me the most. Right now I have Anby, Anby, and Anby. She's C6, but it does almost nothing for her role as my opener.
No, there were no labeled elements nor rarities. However her attacks (you can see UA-cam videos of her rn if you want) definitely had ice effects. I don’t know where people are getting wind from. Wind was going to be an element in the game tho but it got scrapped
Honestly i can say the limited characters will last more than a year, like think about it. We need defense unit in most elements.we lack electro dps. We only have 1 S rank support. We need atleast 3 S rank anomaly. The standard characters will likely be powercreeped.
Well I feel a little worse for having pulled for Ellen now…but at least I got c4 Sokaku Might still pull for Miyabi cuz she look swaggy af. Lowkey hoping they change her to anomaly ice tho, or another element like you’re saying.
I've never played a Hoyo game before, but its disappointing to hear that characters just get left behind instead of receiving buffs & updates to keep them at level with new characters. That's something I liked when playing another gatcha game FF Opera Omnia
I just hope ot's like genshin where the characters are obviously powercrept but you can finish every content with them anyway, even if it's more energy consuming 😂
All standard S rank standard will be crept eventually. They have lower numbers. Some might get the Furina treatment and become meta again. I've got my money on Lycoen and Grace staying relevant for the longest though. Still building Nekomata for my team 2 it'll be atleast a little while for her and it's taking me a minute to get to internot 40.
I'm a F2P player, and I can 100% see Ellen getting power crept within a year. If I didn't get Von (wolf dude) as my first S rank, I would've waited for Zhu.
For reference, in both Genshin and Star Rail, characters that released on launch are still completely viable. Are they the BEST? No. But none of these games are so difficult that you need the best characters to clear and collect rewards. Only if you're chasing the shortest time or highest score do you need new characters. If you're just trying to get the rewards for beating it, a well built team and a touch of skill (truly not much) is all that's needed.
Supports seem a little overrated just because there aren't any 5 stars announced in the next couple months and Genshin's track record. I could see a world where disorder teams punt supports and a Venti/QingYi level support comes out before Christmas that shakes up the meta.
I don’t care about the meta. Only thing I care about is, how fun the combat flow is. But I’ll just watch it. Once Miyabi released, she’ll be pretty much the meta.
What i learned from playing gacha games, play who you like either its the characters themselves or how they play. Play what you enjoy playing. Its not a competitive game its a casual experience you dont need every new best character.
even though I said this in the video, remember that this video is all fun speculation - not only do we not understand the game fully yet, but hoyo can do whatever the heck they want in the future. But I still think it's very interesting to think about and can be helpful for future planning :) also don't forget to enjoy the characters you have now~
It does not turn of the in-game effects, it has a description that tells you right there, bit hard to notice tho.
Remember: There are better options but what matters is what you can currently use and have... For F2p tier list all the characters listed will last for 2 years.
I think it's not power creeping if a 5 star is introduced with really similar functions to a 4 star. Rather than "power creep" it's mostly considered "upgrade" since power-wise, 4 stars are incomparable to 5 stars. Power creeping could be said if 5 stars get overpowered by another 5 star with almost the same functions as the other.
Yup. My only gripe is that 4 star characters cost as much as 5 stars to upgrade/ascend. Whereas 4 star weapons are like 20% cheaper. Idk why they did this.
@@TacticalDimplesIf I think about this that's odd for sure
@@TacticalDimplesisn’t this also true in other Hoyo games? Like I think it also takes the same level of resources to level characters and upgrade their talents in Genshin, if I’m not mistaken.
Yes but 5 stars being outclassed by new 5 stars is a staple of these games so that type of powercreep is still the issue
@@LegolasTNupgrading 4 stars is cheaper in HSR
Me who has been playing Anby + Billy main squad this whole time
🗿
Ain’t no way
you and me both
I almost the same with you, luckily i got nekomata in my first 20pulls and never got anby or billy , so i spending all my rss to my waifu Neko 😂
Like me Billy and Anby
Right now it's hard to imagine what their intentions are with Defenders. They seem like an amalgamation of Stunners and Support, but master of neither.
I think people don't understand how to play Ben. To do his perfect guard counter you have to hit his special right as the enemy hits you rather than when it does the typical counter-flash animation. At level 40 he has more attack than my Ellen due to his Defense scaling (they have similar drive disc investment, Ellen a little more); his attack's over 2000 while Ellen's is at about 1600. Then Ben's block counter scales at like 800% damage and 500% daze - add to that his +16% Crit rate passive and you have a powerhouse.
None of the classes make sense rn but I think they will one day release a powerceep defense character that inevitably does more stun damage than your average stun unit and more damage than a DPS unit all while providing defensive support.
@@lawfulgoodnun1646I feel like this is what Caeser is gonna be. First S defender. She’s probably gonna be insane..
@@virtualmartiniBen is truth sometimes, I run Koleda+ben+lucy, and whenever I’m in a pickle, I whip out Ben! 😂
My (totally speculatory) prediction is that there will be a special type of gamemode where defense units will rule. Like some sort of endless survivability mode or just a mode where the enemies are hyper agressive.
People are definitely sleeping on Ben. He can do almost everything. He even has his own type of counter in perfect guard -- if you pair him with a good support he can teleport around the arena inflicting daze, burn, and healthy damage while being *incredibly fast* when you do the proper swapping and cancels.
Yeah I think a lot of content creators are undervaluing him. Maybe more of it is just “comfort” than I realize but Jello does usually factor comfort in when talking Genshin so even that’s not nothing, and the fact he sometimes steals mvp from S11 on my burn team is insane to me. I’m not saying he won’t get powercrept, and possibly sooner rather than later, but I think he’s more of a question mark now which was his first instinct for placement.
@@LegolasTNMVP at the end of the battles indicates the amount of decibels generated for your ult, not damage.
So that only indicates that either you on-field him a lot or he generates a lot of decibels.
I like what Ben does even tho he not top tier
My m6 ben completely destroys the marionettes and i'm having a hard time fighting those before when using ellen or zhu yuan. Ben completely makes them a mob
Jane Doe doesn't powercreep Nekomata because they fill totally different roles. In fact, since Neko does more damage to enemies that have Assault applied to them, a Jane/Neko team would actually be pretty scary
Ok now I’m excited!
I mean, Neko doesn't proc Jane's passive (while Jane does proc Neko's), so you'd probably want another Anomaly in that team for disorder (Most likely Grace for now), or Qingyi for stun
Neko, Jane and Seth works.
Yup made some content Jane neko Lucy or Jane Neko Grace is going to do some crazy work
@@gallalameblook9911 what's Jane's passive? I didn't know that was leaked yet
I presume that wil be similar to Genshin's Powercreep where characters can still be competive with the right teams and knowing how to play them right.
I just hope that its not a HSR situation where the game almost punish you for not having the right characters
It just show you that every characters are important and it your own choices to make it happen, so don’t try to blame them for such a thing.
hsr is a turn based game, i think the nature of turn based games pretty much needs powercreep to keep the formula from getting stale. I don't think (or at least i hope) zzz won't have to follow thsi formula.
@@sharkshimi5451Not necessarily, the problem is that Star Rail has a stupidly simple gameplay so you have little room for skill expression or "getting good" with a character, with your only options being to get new characters or farm like crazy for perfect Relics
@@Truck-kun11 yeah, and that the natural of all the turn-based games. What is the problem then you or the game?
It's going to be the same for this game. Once you have a stun character for every element there won't be a reason to pull a new stun character until they power creep an old one
. And eventually there is going to be a stun/support/defense unit that is going do more damage than a DPS unit.@@sharkshimi5451
There is no way Soukaku goes the distance IMO, she's way too clunky and her chain attack takes way too long and is a really obvious flaw. I could be wrong but I expect her to be powercrept. I think Nicole is more likely to be Bennet because there's no way we can just look at defense shred and grouping and not see the value.
this, everyone praising soukaku cause she buff massive attack and ice dmg, only ice, and that's not the whole team only unit after soukaku swapped the ice buff is increase. soukaku is too overused and people not even want to try a nicole cause everyone sayin soukaku busted. Nicole with 40% dmg reduce would be future proof by itself. It's just sad
@@DeehStars one reason because many plays ellen as main dps, and lets be real, soukaku is 100x more suitable as ellen's support than nicole, on other teams though that is not the case
Yeah + Soukaku takes up so much field time during chain attack that it'll have a skill requirement if players want to maximise dps during enemy stun time (get the buff before stun)
Totally agree, I started using Soukaku in the full ice team with Von Lycaon and Ellen but she is just sooo slow, swapped her with Nicole for one fight even tho she isn't an ideal fit, but damn everything just melts now and the gameplay is so much more fluid, wish I could use Nicole in 2 teams :D
It boggles my mind how everyone gets a Nicole and still so many just sleep on her
@@DeehStars I mean, the thing is, who tf is supposed to use Nicole?? when Zhu Yuan wasnt even in the game. People will understand eventually now that there is ether dps
Ben (the bear) is great for Hollow Zero quest that give shields and damage buffs based on defense.
In one of the lore things you can read in the game it says that the five elements are the only ones “known at this time.” They are definitely setting up for more.
I agree with the new elements. Considering that the only reaction is disorder. All they need to figure out is the calculation.
Lucy is so fun to play as!! At first I wasn’t interested in her at all, but after trying her out I was shocked by how fun she is c:
All I'm gonna say is my M2 W1 Ellen Joe isn't going anywhere anytime soon lol. Got a f2p God account, Myabi would have to be CRACKED for me to pull on her, but I really just hope they make her electric.
I’m in the same boat, that play upgrade at M2 is AMAZING, and chaining it right in a bosses face is so absolutely satisfying, and the ease of which building ice stacks is so smooth, it’s almost a different character
@@jolunrohthocoudis526 Exactly! Nothing quite hits like getting that sharknami combo off.
@@aidanbarrick4326 I’ve gotten to where now I’ll wait to just about 4/5ths of a bar, and switch in saukaku to flag buff, that usually baits an Ellen switch in, and then I can just do a full cycle with full ice buffs. It’s so smooth. It was well worth the investment getting it
why would they make her electric? Everything they've put out so far has her as an ice character. Anyways I'm hype to pull for her and make a HAND team
@@chimichangle two limited ice DPS units so close together just feels a bit wack to me tbh
3:23 in description for this button on this screen it ONLY turns off the visual part
One reason why Genshin is so little powercreep is because of elemental reactions. Characters kits are deadlifted almost entirely by the elements and how well they use them. (Case in point: Kuki Shinobu, who changed from just healer to hyperbloom dps). ZZZ does have elemental reactions of some degree (more like elemental stacking.)
If they want to buff characters like Billy or Corin, all they need to do is introduce a support that specifically increases anomaly centric damage, or a support that turns any DPS into an Anomaly character + some restrictions. This would also mean they themselves are futureproof as they can work with any kind of DPS character.
This ofc doesn't need to be a character, but a new element can work as well with the same properties.
At base, attribute anomalies already deal greater damage than elemental reactions at base, so I can definitely see something like this working.
Also, character levels currently only go up to 60. I think there's more freedom at Hoyo at increasing this cap in the future.
At 17:23 , I think you don’t want it to be like genshin, since klee was the 1.0 5* dps, who got powercrept in 2 patches by hu tao… At the same time, I hope it’s more like a Ganyu and Ayaka situation, where both are good at different things, but relatively close with each other in terms of power (funnily two ice dps comparisons).
Also one last tangent is that nicole is, I dare say, much more future proof compared to Soukaku, truly believing soukaku is being too overated at the moment. I’d switch their positions if it was up to me.
The only reason why you could anything called Powercrept ina Singleplayer Game is if you sweat Endless Modes or what not that increase extremly in difficulty
Every casual Player should not care about it and just pull and play whoever you like the most honestly
Exactly I don’t mind getting B’s and A’s in the hardest content. As long as that shit is fun man
So long as we don't end up with HI3 levels of powercreep, I will be fine.
I mean I can still clear GI abyss with Sucrose national.
Plz dont bro. Honkai impact is a mess right now, they are droping s ranks back to back powercreeping every valk from part one. The worst part is that part 2 valks only do the job well if they are paired with part 2 valks, because if you try to use them with part 1 valks they arent even good at all
Putting Anby in "powercrept instantly" is insane to me ngl. Strongly disagree with that. Swap Nicole and Soukaku. The core of Anby + Nicole is really good + DEF shred will have a better long term value than Soukaku's ATK buff IMO.
For Lucy, off field damage is something to keep an eye on, I’ve seen the piggies do a ton of damage when fighting an enemy that mostly stays put, which might be a limiter.
It’s also worth considering that while her buff is lower, its buffing the whole team, as opposed to soukakus single character buff, she buffs her own off field damage and would be better in quick swap teams as well as buffing any future off field damage dealers that release.
I do like soukaku too, but she’s too clunky, Lucy feels so good to play.
Hoping it's a lot closer to Genshin than Star Rail when it comes to powercreep. I feel like the units I pulled at the start of my account (patch 2.3) in Genshin have been powercrept less than stuff I pulled in Star Rail like 8 months ago and it's not even close.
thats basically my goofy ass maining the ganyu I pulled back at 2.4 until 4.4 and navia banner LMAO
I think one thing should be considered as well. Ellen is a very proactive unit her raw dps doesn’t just disappear because Miyabi releases. I think the case between them will be who do you prefer gameplay wise
I hope so~
I don't even think miyabi is ice anymore, her Cutscene made her look more like a fire character (blue flames) but idk tbh she looked electro too when cutting through those mobs
@@hachiman205 when I saw that cutscene I thought she was electric as someone who hadn't seen her beta version
Yeah, look at ops like Corin and Anton. They both like the enemy to be stunned/immobile so they can get their slower + hold attacks off. Their elements is what separates them. Meanwhile Corin compared to Billy, while both being physical, play drastically differently with Billy being super mobile once you get used to how he functions.
Then you get into how some ops are super focused on single target while others have pretty big AoE. Currently single target damage is king with very little cleave or AoE, but that's content design instead of an issue with the current roster. There is plenty of space to expand into right now, especially if "X fight wants single target and mobility, Y fight wants AoE, Z fight wants some cleave but mobility isn't that important". Less power creep and more "content match creep".
@@JelloZoneZero it would just be the same case as ganyu and ayaka, both are at the same power level, its just up to the player which playstyle they prefers the most
In a game where you can't necessarily guarantee you'll get every character when they're new unless you whale, every account is going to have it's personal best characters. I decided to roll for the characters I like and not stress like I did with Genshin. I kinda ruined that game for myself sadly.
I did the same in Genshin and really regretted it. No matter how many new and shiny DPS banners I rolled on because of FOMO, I always wound up coming back to my trusty triple crowned Yoimiya 😂
I could’ve saved myself a lot of headache (and money) by only pulling for the characters that I really loved. I won’t make the same mistake again with this game 😌
@@nyaaalex I'm jealous of your Yoimia! I always wanted her but I was worried too much about the meta and I already had Hu tao. Good luck on your ZZZ journey and good luck on your pulls!
@@gogiantrobotproductions3907 you’re so kind, thank you! I love Hu Tao as well and would bring her out on occasion, but always wound up going back to using my bestgirl. Good luck on your pulls and journey as well!
I made some mistakes on star rail and on genshin too. Definitely learned in these games it’s better to have op support characters than to have op dps and lackluster support characters. Just hope they come out with some cool looking/fun to use supports to help me make smart decisions lol.
@@gnarlyboyjai yeah, Star Rail was definitely a learning experience for me as well! I was thankfully a lot better there than Genshin, but I’m hoping that ZZZ releases versatile supports sooner rather than later.
3:15 it’s just for visuals, when you do it the first time it’ll give you a disclaimer that it doesn’t effect gameplay
I'd say it's also gonna depend on the newly added enemy types. In the current build of the game, most of the notheworthy enemies are weak to either Ice or Aether, making Ice-based characters like Ellen and Soukaku shine. It is entirely possible however that in the future content other elements may start playing a bigger role.
So instead of say, DPS role being dominated by one character (like it's currently with Ellen), we'll also have to consider what element to take for each battle, instead of just defaulting to one team for every fight.
Then again, I'm new to gacha games, so I'm not sure where the developer may want to go with with things.
it will and always happen.
there will be future characters that will be just an even better unit than the early limited and standard banners, a future ice dps will eventually come that does ellens job better with more effects, passives or better team compositions
Yeah, unfortunately Ellen is limited to ice teams and maid teams. Next ice dps may not outright powercreep her however they might have more flexible with their compositions.
1.2 speculations are electric
Considering all the eventual roles, elements, AND squads, I'm pumped for how endless these team combinations are going to be. Also the possibility of double element characters like Zhu Yuan since her kit specifies Physical and Ether (unless that's a one off) 👀
I don't think Zhu Yuan dealing phys damage means anything special. Ellen's attack can deal Phys damage as well if you don't have charges. However, anomaly can only be applied when a unit's damage is matching their element type (Zhu Yuan can't apply assault at all).
Most characters do physical damage on normal attacks and a little bit of their element after using a skill or after a certain hit in their attack chain.
I think honestly that this game will probably get to the point where it's a bit more like honkais powercreep down the line. Their powercreep is basically just "use the newest character".
That's just gacha games in general. New Chars don't sell if they don't bring anything new to the table.
Nicole and Lucy are going to be like tingyun.
Major problems with Soukaku being overrated. She’s already being swapped out by Nicole in China. Her problem is multifold. Too much field time compared to other Supports. Her EX skill is super clunky, leaving her vulnerable too long compared to other Supports. Using her Chain attack is actually a significant DPS loss because of how long it takes compared to any other unit in the game. Her buff scales worse over time compared to Nicole whose Defense shred improves over time. Soukaku only buffs one unit only one time. Calling her Bennett is the greatest falsehood. Lucy buffs the entire team with her EX skill, and reapplies with her Chain and Ultimate. Soukaku is BiS solely for a mono Ice hypercarry team comp. This is why v1.0 tier lists are always painful to look at.
Soukaku already powercrept in 1.0 🤣ice favoritism in content of 1.0 is vastly hiding how 'universal' she could be
She’s an A rank. She’s really good at buffing an ice dps. That will always be her niche role. The tier lists are limited to what we have available rn. As of rn she is great because a lot of endgame content favors ice teams and the first banner was an ice dps who greatly benefits from her buffs. I don’t see the issue lol. When she gets powercrept, she’ll get powercrept. Awesome. She’ll still be viable In mono ice teams if more ice dps units drop and if you can’t afford to go for whatever limited ice support powercreeps her 👌🏽
Also a bit easier to get 4-star cinemas in ZZZ compared to Genshin (especially if they put all of them in the shop), so even if they release a new ice support character in a few months what are the chances that people won't have a bunch of Soukaku cinemas that still make him comparable? There's also the faction thing you mentioned, where you can theoretically use 2 Ice supports because one of them is used for their faction instead of element and the other one is used on your 2nd team (or 3rd team? who knows what happens). They could even make an endgame content that's similar to Imaginarium Theater from Genshin, it checks so many boxes for Hoyo in giving people extra reasons to pull for characters.
Something I wish people would dive into is how characters rank (S rank characters) with Mindscape effects.
Like sure most f2p arnt going to MS5, and heck even people like me willing to spend some money probably won’t go that far, but for instance Ellen at M2 is absolutely fucking BONKERS. It’s such a massive upgrade to her play style and damage. And I think it would be noteworthy for future characters like
‘This new dps is tier 1.5, but if you get ms3 they’re tier Ex. Meanwhile this dps is tier 0 but their mindscape doesn’t move them up till Ms5’ knowing how far a Mindscape might push someone or change their style really would change it. Like you almost can’t compare a MS2 Ellen Joe to a regular one.
Because this might happen I am saving for limited banner since launch. Already got more than 17k polychromes. Can’t wait to massively spend two years from now
Miyabi definitely in the Hard to say category but im hoping she a S rank Physical with insane crit valuables and her own kits. Possibly even able to solo and stun on her own with high anomaly. She just comes off like a anniversary character to me since the demand for her is high and im willing to skip for awhile to focus her. Hard gamble but my account should be fine.
I think void hunters will be anniversary. Like joyous, swordmaster(miyabi’s ancestor) and sunbringer
isnt it already confirmed that we get two per patch , since both 1.0 and 1.1 have 2 5stars characters releasing
For now yes the slow down would potentially be when we start getting reruns they transition to just one per patch
@@JelloZoneZero Oh I see , I misunderstood
@@JelloZoneZerostar rail never slowed down…
Genshin started off with 2 per patch as well for the first few patches, then once they started reruns it slowed down to 1 per patch and has stayed pretty much the same.
Star Rail did not slow down though, they implemented double banners really early on so they could continue releasing 2 new characters per patch.
My personal theory is that ZZZ will slow down like Genshin, due to two things: only needing 6 characters to fill out your roster compared to 8, and the character complexity (in terms of stuff that has to be developed) seems more similar to Genshin than Star Rail.
@@TheRoleplayer40kyeah it’s been over a year and they are still full steam ahead with reruns lol
I'm hoping Miyabi is reworked to a Lightning DPS, I think it'd make sense from what we've seen of her so far and we don't have any characters in that role yet
Anton is a lightning dps tho..
@@gnarlyboyjai true, I had meant S-rank attack units. I think now that Zhu Yuan is out we have an S rank attack unit for every element except electric
I am always scared of this since I don't want to spend, that's why investing in DPSs always feels weird
Got some insight on Jello impact dlc videos 10:37 👀
Power creeping characters isnt a problem in this game since you can do pass shiya with solo Billy run. as long as we don't go the HSR route where enemies start scaling with the Damage new characters are putting out
honestly speaking i have 2 potentials to give you
Anton and Koleda
their core kits allow them to work as follows
Anton could possibly be a shock Anamoly enabler (if i understand his core skill) think maybe he needs some shock anomaly nuker
Koleda chain attack enhancer possibly she will work in a team that just keeps swapping character a Cinematic team
maybe support units that will allow koleda to down enemies at a nuclear speed
and Ben seems to be a slow swap every 7 seconds nuke damage dealer
Defense Agents seems to be very hybrid archetype. Ben does buff (crit rate), defense utility (shield), "decent" DPS for A-Rank noAttacker and his kit is around hight crit dmg counter attack. So a quick swap sub dps buffer. Hoyo try things but I dont know what.
Seth, the 1.1 defense electric Agent seems to be hybrid too in the same way, pretty interesting. For me its better than Stunner that just stun to create a dps windows. Def Agent could be a universal (Mono Attribute or Anomaly team) sub dps support. We need to see the S-Rank version to conclude on that.
Miyabi is a huge mystery because she was in the cbt1 (and like soukaku wind type) so the guessing that she will be release this years is fair. Certain ppl said its just Ayaka case in Genshin, present in cbt and was release the 2nd year.
But rumors said that she maybe will be in 1.3, its really soon and if she is a Ice attacker ... its really soon for power creep Ellen, internet will be in fire. MAYBE ... she will be anomaly with a unique kit around freeze because I dont see Ellen be replace this soon, if rumors are right (even if release for this year).
The Hoyo strategy for power creeping characters cant be compare to HSR because turn base game arent like Action games in term of stats balance vs end game.
In turn base game power creep is brutal, in action game not really even in Hoyo games. In Honkai Impact power creep is around a year, in genshin its special. Hoyo have bet on fan service more than the meta and power creep because the main audience aren't attract to it, so its really slow and not so important. Ganyu had scared the community when she release (easy game blablabla) and after that she became the sealing reference for a long period of time.
Sons of Calydon are supposedly going to add a fire anomaly, physical defense, and fire dps(lighter). Lighter probably is gonna be cool but he’s an A rank for sure, not power creeping soldier at all. Burnice is presumably fire anomaly(could be A or S). She has dual flamethrowers, makes sense to be anomaly tbh. Caeser is a physical defender (most likely S and also their leader). Doesn’t really seem like koleda will get powercrept soon. Section 6 is coming soon too and they have no fire units nor do they have any stunners. The idol faction could be interesting, haven’t seen too many leaks other than the black haired girl’s dual spiked weapons and the fact that one of them has like a mech form or something.
there's literally 3 new unit for next patch my friend
can you make a video where you go into detail about the elements and how they interact?
theres a little tooltip in the mindscape menu that states that turning them off is just aesthetic
So your basis for whether or not most of the characters gets power crept is if a new agent comes out with the same element and role. While I understand that for A ranks who get replaced with S ranks, how can we be sure that will be the case for S ranks?
For example, if more fire characters get added, how do we know they will be better than Koleda for Stun or S11 for damage? In S11's case, wouldn't there be a higher chance of getting more agents from the same faction to synergize with her?
I'm new to hoyoverse games, but do they tend to make future S ranks (or 5 stars) just have better stats than existing ones?
Star rail is a turn based game so there is a lot of powercreep for sure. Genshin not so much tbh. Like Hu Tao is still dope af idc what no one says.
Think Ben is alright i got him c2 with his 4 star weapon and it turns that counter into a small nuke.
the mindscape toggles dont turn off the stats, it tells u that in game its purely visual
Jane Doe also doesn't powercreep Piper because they're different factions. In the same way that I'm excited to pull for Qingyi because although she's an electric stunner like Anby, she's part of the Police faction so I can run a comp with Grace, Qingyi, and Jane, and have all of their passives on. Also their playstyles are completely different.
Additionally, if we look at an existing 'powercreep' example of Nekomata vs Billy, they have completely different build paths, playstyles. and team comp desires. Billy is all about figuring out his crouching shot and getting frequent chain attacks so that he can ult with +100% ult dmg. Neko is about triggering EX special assault bonus and doing back attacks. If mihoyo keeps this up, I will be happy with whoever they put out.
They might release Miyabi next year, when a new element will be added actually. And give her a new signature support of the same element instead of Sokaku (who we now think will be useful with her)
That would be an odd anomaly(no pun intended). One of this games selling points is the factions. If Harumasa and Yanagi are releasing within the next few patches then Miyabi would have to release around the same time as them. Especially since they have character models and animations already
I really hope this follows Genshin, in that the 4-stars we get are still viable, and any competent team can clear Sprial Abyss! Lately, Genshin's Spiral Abyss has taken a bit of a turn for the worse, but I'm hoping that this game can keep most characters at a viable level for at least a few years!
6 minutes late to a Jello video? Damn, i fell off
I think anomaly characters are generally resistant to powercreep because you can run 2 anomaly characters right? Kind like how dot teams in hsr generally work hand in hand aside for bs powercreeping sampo(i mean it's obvious that a 5 star is going to be better)
11:40 ahh yes the 4 roles in the game, attack, stun, support & anomaly
There is no defense class
Me finding out Miyabi's element after spending all my primos on Ellen :(
The only cope argument against it is that archons/emanators have been meta or archetype defining, and if void hunters are ZZZ's version of that just another ice dps won't do it.
i got a c2 ellen with her sig weapon in like 80 pulls(F2P), regardless of what miyabi is I don't think she'll be replacing my shork. Kinda just reminds me how if you invest in a character enough, you'll be fine regardless
If they make a healer in this game, it will be insane game breaking. Without the need of healer, it will be a powercreeping game which only focus on damage and more damage with different elements.
Seth is probably going to create an anomaly meta with Jane for a while, until they release a 5 star alternative.
I genuinely don't think this guy understand how future proof Rina is. She extends Shock and gives PEN Ratio to the team base on her on. Any character who benefits from Shock will want her.
Virtual Idol faction launching with a “light” element seems highly likely.
until they introduce more diverse game modes this is a moot point for zenless. i HIGHLY doubt it goes the genshin route where it doesn't introduce more difficult game modes outside spiral abyss/shiyu defense, it already has simulated universe/hollow zero. then again, any team you like can barbecue chicken that game mode because the buffs are so strong there anyway.
I wouldn't say Anby is power crept by Qingyi. This is similar to the Xingqiou and Yelan situation is genshin impact. where they both offer something different (Yelan has more damage but no damage reduction and lower hydro application unless at C2). Also, many teams in gensin at the time needed Xingqiou, but you only had one of him, there for having Yelan as a second Xingqiou was still useful. for ZZZ Anby is the only stun agent you can grantee, with there being many teams needing a stun agent having Qingyi to serve as a second Anby would also be useful for many people.
Actually, genshin had two 5* per patch too when it released as far as I remember. Reason it stopped was because of reruns
HSR didn't stop with 2 per patch, hopefully ZZZ won't too
It was a fun speculative video to watch! I do hope as well that they change Miyabi to e.g. electro crit dps, or any other would be great. I wonder how much it will matter in short term and in long term. I mean how much can it matter whether the newest dps does more damage. Maybe if they make the enemies more bulkier then sure it will matter, but otherwise, playing well will most likely outperform simple "powercreep". At least, I hope they don't just flat out make enemies impossible to beat in SD to S rank without the new shiny DPS this soon in the game.
Drive disc stats and sub stats and team comp can save you for sure
Im really hoping miyabi gets a rework maybe to ice anomaly or something instead of ice dps not only because power creep and replacing ellen but getting a character has such a similar role to another 5 star in the first year of the game is just kind of lame, thats 2 characters with same role and element whithin a year of each other regardless if she doesnt get a rework im still going to pull for her because she seemed really cool from her cutscene in the story
I really hope they change miyabi, make her be able to pair with ellen, she was already kinda a stunner plus dps. Or make her anomoly. Idk, having her come out as attack ice dps is kinda wierd if she comes in 1.3.
Quick question I haven't had clarified elsewhere. When you have 6 of the same drive disk on a character, do you gain the 4 piece passive and then another 2 piece separate one for the extra 2? Or does it not work that way
If you have a 4 piece drive disk set you get both the 2 piece and 4 piece bonuses, having a 6 piece set is just a waste
Love this list! I feel the same way about most of the units.
Could you please link the tiermaker you used for this video?
neko is a support for anomaly dps. she have a buff for the anomaly damage for fiscal i doubt she will power creep on that regard.
The whole Belobog going to fall off the quickest. Grace going to be power creep by the Electro Anomaly real soon. (Section6 isn't far away at all). I have a feeling Plain stunners all going to get power creep as we get Defense and Anomaly that can Stun. Nicole will last a while, Rina and Lycaon keeping Victoria them matter for a bit longer. that's my prediction.
One thing about Anby is that she has pretty good cinemas. It's hard to say if Qingyi will walk all over her even with full cinemas but I think she will hold her value for quite a while for f2p and low spenders. At the moment we only have 3 stun characters and I only have my Anby lol. Her being a Cunning Hare kind of ties her to the viability of Nekomata tho I guess. Here's to hoping she ages like fine wine! 😅
Take it with a grain of salt. Just have fun and no hard feelings.
- Looks interesting on your "tier-list" and we shall see ZZZ in a year time hehehe.
My problem with your tier list is, that you only factor in what the characters can do but not how their playstyle effects rotations. For example, Soukaku already fell off because she takes too much field time. That's why people prefer Lucy and Nicole as supports. Also Soukaku is really only good in ice teams, while Lucy is great in any team. And when we get more def reducing supports, the atk buffers will fall off even more since reducing def is way better against higher level enemys already.
I love jane so much, I didn't get ellen weapon, saving everything for jane
it doesnt look like there are any qiqi/yanqing in the game luckily. lycaon seem to be the most futureproof standard 5* character imo. he is a stunner, in the maid faction and ice element. he can be slotted into any future ice dps team and probably be good for years. maybe nekomata will age like fine wine if there is a physical support/stunner who buff team backstab dmg.
8:59 Miyabi was a wind character?? Oh man I’d love that more! They didn’t make what her element is very overt in the cutscene in-game. I would hate for Ellen to get powercrept so quickly as an Ice DPS. :///
Oh no, that's the website I use for tier lists....
I think pretty much every 5 star character will not be completely powercrept in the first year but after one year (they should still have a "niche", even if another unit does the role better in a vacuum).
But after one year, my impression is that every character can be powercrept, even limited banner ones.
I'm guessing it's going to be more similar to HSR than genshin, where a character available at release (like Bennett) will still be at the top of the meta 4 years later. My guess is that HoyoV sees the available-at-launch overpowered 4 star characters in Genshin as a mistake.
The minds escape thing is just aesthetic, they give a warning now that it is only aesthetic
*aesthetic
ascetic
/əˈsɛtɪk/
adjective
characterized by severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons.
I don't understand the role/element imbalance that is going to continue in 1.1.
There is only one A rank stunner, no foreseen physical or ether stunner, and now TWO electro stunners.
There are three physical attackers and two anomaly masters, and if you count anomaly as DPS, that's now FIVE physical DPS. Available DPS for other elements is paltry.
Ben WAS the only defender, but he's getting company. Won't be such a lonely bear anymore.
And yeah, missing physical support.
The enormous number of physical DPS and lack of stunners bugs me the most. Right now I have Anby, Anby, and Anby. She's C6, but it does almost nothing for her role as my opener.
9:00 miyabi was originally wind? Did cbt 1 even have elements
No, there were no labeled elements nor rarities. However her attacks (you can see UA-cam videos of her rn if you want) definitely had ice effects. I don’t know where people are getting wind from. Wind was going to be an element in the game tho but it got scrapped
Honestly i can say the limited characters will last more than a year, like think about it. We need defense unit in most elements.we lack electro dps. We only have 1 S rank support. We need atleast 3 S rank anomaly. The standard characters will likely be powercreeped.
Well I feel a little worse for having pulled for Ellen now…but at least I got c4 Sokaku
Might still pull for Miyabi cuz she look swaggy af. Lowkey hoping they change her to anomaly ice tho, or another element like you’re saying.
I've never played a Hoyo game before, but its disappointing to hear that characters just get left behind instead of receiving buffs & updates to keep them at level with new characters. That's something I liked when playing another gatcha game FF Opera Omnia
I just hope ot's like genshin where the characters are obviously powercrept but you can finish every content with them anyway, even if it's more energy consuming 😂
All standard S rank standard will be crept eventually. They have lower numbers. Some might get the Furina treatment and become meta again. I've got my money on Lycoen and Grace staying relevant for the longest though. Still building Nekomata for my team 2 it'll be atleast a little while for her and it's taking me a minute to get to internot 40.
I'm a F2P player, and I can 100% see Ellen getting power crept within a year. If I didn't get Von (wolf dude) as my first S rank, I would've waited for Zhu.
Nah it just makes it look different for mind scares
For reference, in both Genshin and Star Rail, characters that released on launch are still completely viable.
Are they the BEST? No. But none of these games are so difficult that you need the best characters to clear and collect rewards. Only if you're chasing the shortest time or highest score do you need new characters.
If you're just trying to get the rewards for beating it, a well built team and a touch of skill (truly not much) is all that's needed.
Likely going to skip Jane Doe until a rerun later on.
Here's hoping Miyabi isn't an Ice Anomaly that *really* wants those crits.
Supports seem a little overrated just because there aren't any 5 stars announced in the next couple months and Genshin's track record. I could see a world where disorder teams punt supports and a Venti/QingYi level support comes out before Christmas that shakes up the meta.
I don’t care about the meta. Only thing I care about is, how fun the combat flow is. But I’ll just watch it. Once Miyabi released, she’ll be pretty much the meta.
Im still maining Cyno on genshin powercreep dont work on me but i really hope Miyabi will last for a long time, she is very cool
Grace is good
What i learned from playing gacha games, play who you like either its the characters themselves or how they play. Play what you enjoy playing. Its not a competitive game its a casual experience you dont need every new best character.
Pipers AOE is still huge tho.
I skipped Ellen for miyabi cuz they’re basically the same character. I hope they don’t change her element again
i feel nicole would be the bennett of zzz i think im just biased but soukaku is just soo clunky to me i hate playing her