I am 57 (ouch!), been a developer for 37+ years and have worked in everything from assembly language in embedded systems to high level desktop to network to cloud. Does that make me a better programmer? No, but what it gives me is so much more experience of different problems and finding solutions across a range of issues. What drives me nuts now is how many different frameworks there are, how many new languages, and how often they update. The first ten years were much easier because things didn't change as quickly! However, I enjoy developing much more now than back then because we can achieve much more in a shorter amount of time. The tools are also soooo much better now! I'm STILL learning something new EVERY day!
As Tim knows from a few emails we've shared, this is exactly the same boat I'm in (except I started on an HP-2000 timeshare when I was only 7, so I'll have 50(!) years of programming behind me as of the last week of this December). The one thing I've definitely noticed is that there is a lot of age discrimination being done by the online application systems. Sure, they can't ask for your birthdate, but when you graduated from high-school is a required field and I've had a few places wondering why they aren't seeing my app when they wanted me. The only possible answer (since I was fully qualified for all the positions I was applying for), is that the software was figuring out my age from the high-school date and "choosing" not to send my app on... I've had to be creative to get some positions. Right now, I work for a company where the owner's Mother cuts my hair! (Plus he and I are now business partners trying to get out of the IT Consulting arena.) As DaveEP says, all the multiple frameworks, languages and changes are a LOT to learn when you jump into the middle. When I was starting, I pretty much learned EVERY language that was available back then and even found ways to make a language do things that it hadn't been designed for (this helped get me work with a Defense Contractor when I was still a teenager during the Cold War - does coding flight information for the Tomahawk Cruise missile make me a pseudo-Rocket Engineer??? LOL!). Oh well, we keep trying! I still do tutorials on SOME subject every week and will until they finally replace me with A.I. (or A.S.?) and put ME into a container! Besides the obvious aspects of Tim's videos (content and the ability to teach it), I really like how his low voice and pace sound great at 1.5 to 2x the speed! I just don't have the time for those two-hour marathon videos some do and my ADHD (squirrel!!) kicks in for any that go too slow. No offense to them (and, I'm sure, the content is very good), but some of the videos done by Indian teachers just sounds like a lot of bubbles to my ears, even at normal speed! Go Tim, Go! :-)
I'm 10 years older with a similar background but retired a few years ago. Tim has been invaluable in learning C# so that I have been able to contribute to an Open Source project. More importantly it’s helped keep me sane during lockdown! I have always tried to learn new techniques and new languages and will continue to do so even though I no longer have a paying job that requires these skills. I am so fortunate that my entire career was spent being well paid for doing something I enjoyed 😎
I am 51 years old and a member of a visible minority group. Never stop learning. Keep absorbing new ideas from older and younger people. Teach and share what you know right away. When you learn something new, use it everyday. I had a couple of bosses 7 years ago that told me I was too old to still be developing or learn anything new. It turned out that those 2 individuals, one after the other, got burned out and had to leave the company. Wisdom 😀
I hear you about the minority group. I am 54 and still programming. I lost my job during the pandemic and have picked up some contract work here and there but I have some grey and I have not yet begun to color my hair/beard (goatee). My wife keeps telling me to color my hair because of age prejudices. One of the last jobs that I had was for a smaller company and they got away with a lot of bs stuff because of age. I once was part of an interview process where the CIO asked the software development manager at what stage in the candidates career he was in. The answer was "end of his career" which in their eyes meant they thought that this guy was too old to put in the effort to learn new things. So that guy never had a chance no matter how well he could have done on the interview. I was repulsed at this type of thinking and am very happy that I am no longer with that company but the threat is real. People judge you based on your age in the hiring process even though here in the USA it is illeagle.
53 years old this side. Been developing since age 16 on a Commodore 64 😂😂. I have built some amazing things over the last 7 years in C#. Love the language and still program every day. Love your channel.
I recommend you start by learning C# first, rather than a specific GUI like web or desktop. However, once you learn C# and you are ready to go deeper on a specific GUI, I do recommend Blazor Server as your first option.
I am a 35 year old engineer, and I changed several jobs and languages in my past career. I feel bad about that and think whether I am too old to be a new C# developer. After watching your videos I now feel more encouraged and confident to create a new career with C#. Thank you so much.
Good Luck! Remember, they want to know 'What you know". When they ask tough questions, share what you do know about the topic and don't dwell on the part you can't remember or the words you think they want to hear. You got this!
Lucky you! I'm 40 and I completed .Net coding bootcamp few months ago but I still cannot get used to it. There are so many things I do not understand or if even I understand I forget or cannot implement myself. So far is quite overwhelming for me. Probably it is again matter of attitude.
Good video Tim! I'm 54 and have been coding for over 20 years currently developing on several C# MVC projects working for a large health care company. We have quite a few senior Devs in my department and it makes it a great organization to work for because we don't get stuck on hard stuff for very long. There are a lot of benefits to hiring an older developer.
Almost 60 (next month) and I have been developing in C# since 2008. Have developed applications in the past using C on SunOS, Amiga and PC. Also have developed VFP applications. But I still try to learn more all the time, anything to make my applications work better. I want to thank you Tim Corey and all the other developers that teach like you do.
Ahh! Hello all! I found the Senior Section and no longer feel so alone! I was a COBOL programmer from around '78, at the GAP, to my final gig at DelMonte (adding the Century to reporting and Input fields). To make a real long story short, I found C# and Tim's great video's at 64, and have been here since. Thanks, Tim!
I'm 19 fresh out of Highschool, your videos taught me C# and a lot of useful design principals, async programming, testing eg. eg. Your tutorials also cascaded into my frontend skills. I'm almost finished with my microsevice based reddit clone thanks to you!
I love this question, and this video Tim! For example I’m 55, and I used to (back in the day), be a professional programmer, but I stopped, for 13 years. (And doing something else now) So, sometimes I ask myself, am I too old to jump back in and be a developer now? Of course, the answer is no! It’s not too late jump back in if I want to. But yes, everybody can and should try a little computer programming no matter how old you are. For example, say you’re 62 years old, or 82 years old, and you’ve always wondered what it’s like to program a computer. This is the perfect time! So many tools are completely, I mean absolutely, completely free. You can make incredible apps, and websites, all for free.
I am 53, been programming informally since my early teens, but started programming professionally at 48. I found a career that I love and am passionate about. It's never too late if you are willing to devote the time to learn and continue learning and share what you have learned.
Thanks a lot for your usual great videos. I'm 48 years old and I learn new techniques about software development every single day. And I will continue forever. Appreciate your efforts Tim.
This is the best video yet. Most of my journey as a developer at 59 years old has been about changing myself and upgrading to be current. Now, I want to find out how to find jobs, which, as I understand, is still mainly in the hidden job market. And the posted jobs could not be filled by other means. My current work has told me to look for new contracts and fill up the extra time; I do 40 hours a month for them. But that frees up a lot of extra time to learn, grow, and seek new jobs to get paid for.
Very well said Tim. I develop software over 40 years now (still love punch cards and assembly). Learning new stuff is always the nice part of what I do and it is awesome to help others.
It saddens me to think about how little TIME we have as beings to improve ourselves and our species. There is no higher goal than to improve ourselves and to help others improve.
I'm 70 and I'm still doing major software development in C#. I've been coding for 42 years. The trouble is that a large number of software companies think your over the hill a 35.
Got my first job at 38 years old. I'm 42 now. Self-taught. A couple of thoughts: 1. I found it important to put in the time to learn as much computer science as I could (algorithms, etc.). The internet is full of resources. 2. The kids often do have an advantage as far as a faster, younger mind (kind of like with sports)...I make up for this by working on programming after work and on weekends. 3. Be humble...because often a kid 10 or 15 years younger will know more than you. It's ok. Learn from them. 4. See if you can connect your programming to something you already know well (maybe your previous career). Domain knowledge is worth it's weight in gold.
Hi Tim, I'm a 30 year old engineer working in the automotive industry looking for a career change into software development. I'm about halfway through the C# Mastercourse and enjoying every step of the way. Big thank you for all your effort!
I found that, being a former newspaper writer, I could communicate better than many of my peers, which was a benefit but made their bad spelling (in code) maddening. I also found that organizing a news story and organizing a program were not dissimilar. In fact, programming is merely communicating in a programming "language" rather than in English, and programming languages are always very limited and so much easier to learn than English. Loving code is my superpower.
Thanks Tim! This was my matter too. I am 40 now and i am civil engineer. I am working on C# during last 3 years not continous but these days i am working on wpf. I planned to develope my win app and sell that. This video encouraged me and was so inspiring..... Thank bro!
I started programming at 10 and know with 32 work as professional developer for more than 7 years. There is one additional thing I think besides attitude and willingness to change is important, which comes more with age / experience and this is calmness during your work. With age came a bit more calmness which allowed me to take a step back and think about what is necessary and what is maybe hastily or short sided. Even though change is important, not everything has to be done immediately and not everything helps on this project. A view which I lacked in the youth because lets be honest every new technique / feature is exciting and you want to get coding immediately :-)
I agree, Tim. The secret is to Always Be Learning. I bought my first computer when I was 23 years old. I started out with interpreted BASIC (that was way back in 1982) and, since then I've learned many different languages including Assembly Language, Pascal, C, C++, Visual Basic, and C# just to name a few. In 1999 (the year I turned 40!) I went to work at Microsoft documenting ADO and then ADO .NET using VBScript, VB classic, JavaScript, and C++ and then VB .NET and C# .NET. I've written Windows applications the old-fashioned way using the Windows SDK and recently wrote a C# application that accesses Amazon Web Services through the .NET SDK. Things have changed a lot since I started and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm thinking of learning Rust next.
Thanks a lot! I am 66 years old now with 45 years of experience as a software developer, half of that time as a C# developer and I will never stop doing that:-)
I'm in my mid-fifties. Twelve years ago I built a software product that managed to get market traction and today my full-time job is managing the codebase for this product (plus doing other things related to the business around it). So I work for myself. I would love to hire a younger programmer to do a lot of the lifting related to maintenance and new feature releases, but that would come out of my (comfortable) salary, so I just do the work myself. I have to say I feel burned out most days. But I plow through.
Consider what you may be missing out on: 1) new energy and creativity of a fresh mind 2) freeing you up to grow your business (and comfortable salary) faster and further 3) investing in a young mind and giving them an opportunity at a career, improved skills and even entrepreneurship experience to eventually build their own comfortable salary for themselves and they family If you have watched my videos, then you know that I have a strong belief in helping others improve themselves. I encourage you to pay it forward.
Im 35 and just a trainee in a Company as a IT specialist for application development in the last year of trainee. Before I was a Welder, unfortional i can not do my Job and switch now to a application development. Best is I startet with 0 Exp. at Programming and now I write my API´s for my C# Programms and learn with evry Project in the Company, the hardest things i find the GUI in WPF but always Happy when I see what you can do with it.
I'm 27 yrs old. I love application development in C#. But I didn't get a job on software programming instead I work as software QA engineer. But I use my software development instincts while I'm testing. As a matter of fact. I convinced myself during my QA routine, "If I can do a better software, then I should be able to verify how well other people have developed software". So may be not today... but someday I'm gonna get a job as a developer. So... I hope today's practice will be a plus point in future when I appointed as a professional developer.
Test automation is in huge demand and can sure test your developer capabilities. Many folks make that their entire career. Find what you are enjoy and go after it, whether QA or full development.
Thanks, Tim. I’m 58 years old, have 30ish years experience in network engineering and information security, and am seriously considering a change of careers. I’ve also been programming since I was 13 and it’s something I love doing (I’ve forgotten more languages than some people know - anyone for some Clu? APL? SPL [Systems Programming Language, not Shakespeare], Modula? LOL). This was just what I needed to hear.
I'm 67, thought retirement would have beckoned by now, but still happily developing various Web and Desktop applications. One thing I can bring to the party is common sense around an app's usability. I've come across so many applications in my time where the developers have got carried away with their own 'cleverness' and not given a proper thought to how a user might interact with their all singing all dancing program. I have worked with some very clever programmers who could talk in depth about the latest design innovations and 'elegant' code, yet didn't have a clue when it came to thinking how the end product would be used and navigated. Age is definitely no barrier as long as you can produce an end product that does what it's supposed to, can be quickly debugged if necessary, and the end user enjoys working with. Simples.
Excellent points, I totally agree. I believe the proper word for what you describe is maturity. Having a well rounded perspective means you can see the need and solution from various angles. Thank you for sharing that insight.
@@tomthelestaff-iamtimcorey7597 No problem. I should have added how valuable I've found these videos and I'm learning new stuff all the time. So much help and presented in a clear, straightforward manner. Many thanks and keep them coming.
I became a professional programmer in 1976. I took the C/C++/C# pathways through my career including everything Internet. Now, at age 67, no one cares to receive my resume. I understand.
You still have a lot to offer. The key is to find the right company that fits what you have to offer. Some of that comes from tailoring your resume properly and some of that just comes from continuing to submit your resume.
I don’t entirely agree on the “embrace change” mantra. You have to be open for change and embrace it if it’s good. But if it’s a bad change you have to fight it with everything you’ve got. The hole web dev debacle is because every young dev jumps on every change screaming it’s the next big thing. On the age question, it’s noble to say it’s never too late, but you shouldn’t lie to yourself. It’s never too late to become a hobbyist developer, but starting a career, with no development background at all, at 60 is too late. Even the knowledge you acquired on any other job would only be useful if you happened to have to develop some software in that line of work.
In my experience, you can't toss out so many absolutes. The world is not so "open or shut" as you describe. Sharing your wisdom based on experience can give perspective about some new software change is great but sometimes folks have to experience the mistakes themselves to truly learn. After such a mistake, a wise person coaches them through the resolution without saying 'I told you so". Secondly, I have seen senior folks do amazing things when they set their minds to it. Learning new things often keeps them young at heart and mind. You should not discourse them if they really want to try. You might even learn from them.
I am 43 but I was fortunate when I was young to be exposed to the MS-DOS era of operating systems and programming. In a sense, properly studying software engineering and data science I have not really discovered completely new things - sure Blazor apps never existed in 1991 - but they are essentially a compound of things that did. In a sense, I feel like I have finally 'come home' more than too some strange place.
Hi, Tim! This is a great video. I was just thinking about this question last night. I am 37 and have been a judicial system employee in my state for almost 15 years. During that time I have been self-teaching C# (as a primary language) as well as many others, and have created many applications and utilities during that time that align with my work. I want to branch out and look at becoming a full time developer, as I feel like my skills are at that level, and I'm always hungry to expand on it. Do you have any tips for self-taught developers that are looking to make a career change without a C.S. degree?
@@IAmTimCorey I took your advice in the video, assessed my skills, and decided to start your Blazor Server course on your site. I had to come back and say WOW. This is phenomenal! I've wanted to get into this sort of development for a while, and now I am really excited about how much I'll know on the other side. Thanks for doing all of this! I can't imagine the time put into it.
I am 27 years old. I have started to learn programming nearly a year ago. But I'm worried because my age could be a problem. Whenever I want to apply for a job as a junior developer, they seek at least 1 year of experience or mastery in some language(How can anyone become a master on anything in that time ?). When I want to apply as an intern, they don't seek experience, but they want you to be a student of computer sciences or related fields (computer engineering, software engineering etc.) and I'm a graduate of economics. Either way, companies don't get back to my applications, regardless I'm willing to work voluntarily untill I get some experience. Even though my interest in software development started a little bit later then it should ( I wish I should have studied a related program in the university), I feel like I have found my dream job. I don't know what I can do to kick start my career as a developer. I'm learning as many technologies (which I see are required in most job advertisements) as I can, and I'm going to build an e-trading site to somewhat prove my skills. But other than that, I don't know what to do.
Check out my other Dev Questions where I try to coach you thru this point in your career - (ua-cam.com/users/IAmTimCoreysearch?query=dev%20questions). Specifically "What Should I Have In My Portfolio?" and "How Do I Get Freelancing Clients?" Your Portfolio is where you show you have the experience, even if not paid to do it. Consider participating in open source project(s). That is great experience. You can do this. You can get past this, just keep taking ONE step at a time.
If I am not mistaken the anti-age discrimination law is only applicable for a certain age. I have on a countless number of times had other older developers/managers tell me I was just "a baby" for my age. Those remarks towards me hurt.
Except that the house was built in 1850 (not a typo), the walls were solid wood (the wiring was on top in a notch in the drywall and the electrical box spot was carved out of the wall), and the other side was right next to the shower (not a ton of room and in a heavy splash zone). It could have been done, but the result would have been a LOT of work (3-4 days of doing it after work at least).
Here in Australia there is a law about age discrimination, but employers will tell you "you are over-qualified" to reject your application and get around that law. Age discrimination in IT here esp. for developers are rampant, so if you are in mid-40s, your chances to find a role is becoming slim. Most employers and agents will just trash your CV and find someone a few years out of college. They prefer younger developers in Australia, which is BS.
The US has the same law and some employers mirror those same discriminatory practices. However, not all employers do. Keep at it. If they do tell you that you are over-qualified, you may have a discrimination case on your hands. Over-qualification is a point in your favor and most courts will see it that way.
Maybe you should have (or should in a future video) more clearly distinguish between the two questions whether in an older age to (1) get into software development as a "fresh man" and (2) proceed or stop after a long career as a software developer. You talked more about (1) and provided a very good point in favor for entering the field late, namely if one has a lot of domain expertise waiting to be put into code. But for (2) the situation and thus the answers will be entirely different. The question here is whether or to which degree aging defeats the advantages of being a veteran developer - or whether being a veteran developer has any advantage at all. There are a lot of ideas about older developers, which should be discussed and evaluated. For example, one popular argument I am hearing a lot is outright wrong: that developers starting at 40 (or at 50 at latest) would skip (or be skipped) programming in large numbers. Why do people think so? Well, because there are so many more younger developers compared to older ones. That's of course a nonsense argument. Uncle Bob often does a funny poll when talking in front of technical folks: He starts asking who is a programmer? Almost everyone will raise their hands. Then he asks who has been a programmer for more than 5 years. Now only about half the people would raise their hands. More than 10 years? Again only half of the previous half of hands go up. And so forth. The simple and easily acceptable truth is: There have been way less people starting as programmers in the 90s, or 80s, or even 70s, than during the past 20 or even only 10 years, and even if each of the old guys is still doing their job, they will be in a hefty minority in number. Do people become "learning resistant" in older age? Come on, that's a foolish stereotype, which has no real basis. Personally (50 now, having started programming at 14 and doing so with nearly no off-time) I have been learning new stuff and adjusting constantly, and I believe I am just getting better at it, not worse. I have all reason to believe so, simply because I can compare my "learning trajectory" with other developers of different ages, and I don't think I am doing badly. And I have worked with other older guys (not few of them older than myself) who are just fast and furious learners, bringing new topics and methods into productive code in very little time. So that argument again is largely moot. Does physical decline through age has a strong impact on the ability to develop software? One would expect so, but then, I believe the effect isn't all too strong (in particular if people continue to do sports), and for many people before their time of retirement it can be largely neglected. After all, we are not talking about trying to go for Olympic gold in a track and field discipline or winning the football world cup. Maybe someone above 70 shouldn't try to win any of those competitive programming competitions out there. But when it comes to quality, clean architecture, writing good test suites, debugging abilities, and overall making reasonable decisions and knowing what not to do, I would generally put my money on the older guy rather than the younger. In fact, I've been lucky to work in teams where experience and past successes was highly regarded, and even was a primary reason for getting the job. So, sorry, you young people, some of your ideas about us older dev folks turns out to be just myth or wishful thinking - but you'll getting there to find out yourself sooner than you like! :-)
If your client contact is older, nearer your age, you have a higher chance of being considered. Ageism is almost the rule for recruiters. The older you get, the more you need to have direct contacts with the people actually hiring the developer.
Hi Tim, I visited your channel few days back and found you have really good information in your videos. May I make a request if you could make videos on caching?
I remember when Visual Basic 3 was released and it allowed people with no dev skills to write programs. The result was thousands of catastrophic applications and thousands of people giving bad advise about app development, and even today we have not recovered. If you are 60 years old and don’t have aptitude and/or experience in the fundamentals of computing, do the world a favor and take up something else, maybe knitting, tennis, golf, guitar, fishing... but stay away from programming because it requires intense application of logic and the learning curve will last until you are 80.
Great video, but you missed a very important aspect of an old developer. How much can you earn? I have been programming since 1992 and I have been using C# since 2003 so that is about 17 years. Do companies care if you have 17 years of C# programming? No! Older programmers get to a point where you reach an earnings ceiling. I am constantly trying to learn new tech like React, Vue, Backbone, all of the testing frameworks, etc… but does my experience of 17 years plus knowing all of these technologies really boost my earning well beyond a young programmer with say 5 years of experience? No! Would a company pay me $150? No! They can pay a younger programmer $25 to do the same work. Yes! I am seeing this every day. This is what I am experiencing now and trying to find an answer, how to keep growing my earnings? I like programming, but I have reached a point where my earnings have flatten out. Made I should start doing videos like you ;)
How much you can earn is very subjective. Before I stopped consulting altogether, my rate was $500/hour and I still had to turn people away. Experience does matter. How could I justify charging that much? Because I could save the companies I worked with more than that. A younger, less experienced developer might have great ideas and start coding right away. I'll make sure the team is pointed in the right direction so that we reach the finish line with less effort, while avoiding the pitfalls the younger developer doesn't know are there. As for how you can keep growing your income, part of it comes with how you present yourself. Part of it comes with having a proven track record of success. Confidence is also a big part of it. Knowing why you are a valuable employee and what additional you bring to the table helps you present yourself well.
Hi Tim, very encouraging words, at the time feel like am becoming too old to programme. But question i want to ask. in c# my target is to develop enterprise web/ desktop based applications. what would you advice?
For C#? Visual Studio, almost exclusively. It is the best IDE for C# development. You can use VSCode if you are on Windows, Mac, or Linux as another option, and you can use Visual Studio for Mac if you are on a Mac. Another option, which isn't free (but Visual Studio isn't free for companies that make more than $1 million per year) is a third-party product like JetBrains Rider.
Not even kidding. I literally recently purchased Just For Men hair dye. Covid lockdowns... Anyone else feeling like a wilted old grey flower? Remote work can become depressing too. Wow, another timely video. So encouraged by the comments here. Looking forward to aging together with y'all. (ok boomer) Shut up kid.
I've had a boss or two... who was stuck in the 1980's COBOL world. Trying to do .NET Web Forms (early 2000's)... following their COBOL mindset and restrictions... wasn't fun. They weren't willing to change.
Hi! I started C.S degree at 40 together with full time work three years ago and now I have one more year. Cobol has many minuses, but if your mind is open to new (or very old) things - it's that matters. Deep inside it's same thing as other - you have a task/problem and you have to understand how it's working now (if exists) and how to make a solution. I started my first job before two weeks as Cobol Programmer, after I learned at university Java, C, Assembler, ... . After little shock I undestand - it's not the language, it's you.
I'm 56. C# developer for 20 years. Nobody wants me anymore. They give stupid reasons why I'm not the one anymore: like I'm too pragmatic or too extravert. Reasons I have never heard before. When I applied for a job useally I got it after one meeting. Not anymore. So, I'm looking for something else now.
Since people are giving you advice about what you should and should not do, let me chip in. You should explain unsafe code in C++, C, assembly, but if someone wants to know about pointers in C# tell them that they are inherently unsafe and stay away from computing.
All development comes down to how precisely you can move and precision motor skills. Numerical age is irrelevant. But once you lose your fine motor skills, you’re done as a dev.
Losing fine motor skills would be tough, but there is still a place to lead other developers, help test products, perform QA, and a lot more even without fine motor skills.
Age may not be a problem. Way of thinking can. I don't mean emotions here. Do you have any advice, besides get more experience, on how to approach problems, plan for more than you can foresee? Think like a programmer? Think like a developer? Just think... better? Way of thinking may hinder ones success. I hope that you understand my question. Regards :)
Younger developers have just as many drawbacks to consider, they don't have experience of dealing with clients, troubleshooting, they may still have to go through becoming a parent which always takes it's toll, they may be more driven by salary as they have a new mortgage or baby to consider. There are many, many reasons why an employer might choose one age group over another but employment aside there is no reason anyone is ever too old to code. That said, im only 50 and found myself saying recently "if the Metaverse becomes part of everyday life then i'm moving to a forest and dropping out" 😀
Question, I’m 15 now but I started programming C# 2 years ago, is it possible for me to get a job as soon as I get out of high school as a software engineer?
Yes, it is possible, but it will take work on your part. I would recommend following this video: ua-cam.com/video/LUv20QxXjfw/v-deo.html as well as the videos in the Dev Questions playlist about getting a job, your portfolio, and even about getting freelancing clients.
I am 38 and started again two years ago. I have already an u degree, but was doing something else for the last 10 years. The problem is I am not able to get freelance jobs. I guess because I have no direct experience in the last years. May be I am to dumb... 😜
Nope, I don't think you are. Getting work can be tricky. Here are some videos that will help you improve your odds: ua-cam.com/video/JnTw3VBz3rg/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/JSSfcXSiq1I/v-deo.html
I'm sorry, it is already at its discounted rate. For $50, you get access to over $1,000 worth of courses, plus you get access to all new publicly-available courses.
@@IAmTimCorey Legally, that's true, but only for permanent employees, and, in practice, I have never heard of a company being penalised for ageism in their hiring process. Companies even boast of the youthfulness of their people.
I have given up on continuing to program since in my best days I did not achieve what I set out to do, especially now that I am old. All I hope is to finish the current project and shoot myself. I need a reset, maybe I will retry it in another life.
There are a number of things to discuss here, but let’s start out right away with the most important: I would recommend calling the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (Lifeline) at 1-800-273-TALK (8255), or text the Crisis Text Line (text HELLO to 741741). They are there to help you (much better than I can). If you are out of the US, visit this website for help in your area: www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/ Now let’s talk about the different parts of what you said. First, your best days don’t have to be behind you. That is perspective. I don’t know what your situation is, but I can share a bit of mine. Within a couple of years time, I was fired, I was told that I was going to probably die by doctors on two separate occasions, I had a major customer cancel a contract, and I spent over a year with hives covering my body that constantly itched (the medication I took for it was potentially lethal - I took it but it didn’t work). Those were some rough years, yet I would not trade them for anything. Yes, I have long-term issues because of them but I would not be where I am today without them. If I focused solely on how bad I felt, I would not have made it through. Instead, I focused on two things: God and helping others. I don’t know what you believe about life after death, but I can tell you this: you need to figure it out before you die. Life isn’t a video game. Personally, I believe in Jesus from the Bible. Religion says that you must be good enough to earn something after you die. The problem with that is if you believe that there is a God, how much bigger would he be compared to us? How could anything we do be big enough to even warrant his notice? We can barely create structures that are seen from low orbit. A God that created billions of stars can’t think that living a good life is somehow significant. The difference with Jesus is that he didn’t ask us to do anything - he did it. He just asks for us to accept his sacrifice in our place. The things we do after salvation have no bearing on our salvation - they are purely done in gratitude for what Jesus has done for us. So that’s the first part of what got me through some tough times. The fact that this is bigger than me and that there is more to life than what I have right now. The second part that got me through was being able to help others. Sometimes that was tiny things. Sometimes, I was able to do bigger things. No matter what I did, though, I was able to make someone else’s life a bit better. In doing so, I was able to give them something to smile about. Giving someone else something to smile about is the best way to make yourself smile. The next thing you talked about was being old. Are you dead yet? If not, you still have more life to experience. More joy to give. You can make a big impact on others no matter your age. Shooting yourself is not a reset. Life isn’t a video game. You get one opportunity to figure out what is important. Don’t give up before you figure it out. You have value. You have a purpose. I am rooting for you.
@@IAmTimCorey I read somewhere that knowledge attracts unhappiness and I can testify to it. Before I was 15 I was about to die in 6 different events, from there and unexpectedly I began to be interested in topics called "transcendental", specifically why we are here and what will happen the day we leave. So I came across the Bible, a couple of years later. After inquiring from here to there and having lived within a Franciscan community, today I can say with certainty that I know the keys to interpreting the Bible and -I do not want to be rude with anyone but, people misinterpret the book. There is so much lies in what religions say because the book deals with very different (and perverse) things. As an example I'll tell you that the figure of Jesus in principle is not that of a man but a woman, from there we are already involved in a deception. The hatred of men is embodied within the whole Bible itself, as unprecedented as it is true. This knowledge is what I am talking about and that makes me understand that something is wrong in origin in the world. The world is in the hands of evil beings and each of us is at their own. Having said that, this plan of mine for the short or medium term is product of meditation of many years, it is not a matter of having run into some new difficulties and not finding the way out. I firmly believe that the soul transcends the body and that it does not die when we leave here but, as the phrase "give up the ghost" clearly indicates, we only give up the fruit of our work and wait for the next mission. In life you succeed and you fail, my case it's the latter and I am not afraid to admit it as well as I am aware that the opportunities are gone and it is time of acceptance and return. There are hard but necessary decisions to take when a person's dignity is at stake. I don't think anybody deserve to live in poverty after giving everything he had in this life and I don't expect to be old enough to even remember who I am. I was sent to do a job without required tools/associates and that is my complaint. I NEVER HAD A CHANCE, period. Finally, we should not cling to life so much as it is fleeting anyway. Thanks for your support. You are a good man., Tim
Tim , I am a 70 year retired engineer learning to code in C#, thank you so much for the encouragement.
Ronald, you encourage me. Thanks for sharing.
I hope I have your drive to learn when I'm 70. You are an inspiration to us!
Thanks Ron,
I’m 70years too and a retired engineer. I’ve been on C++ since retirement and now dabbling C#
Wow, this is awesome, you people are awesome. Thanks for sharing.
Very cool
I am 57 (ouch!), been a developer for 37+ years and have worked in everything from assembly language in embedded systems to high level desktop to network to cloud.
Does that make me a better programmer? No, but what it gives me is so much more experience of different problems and finding solutions across a range of issues.
What drives me nuts now is how many different frameworks there are, how many new languages, and how often they update. The first ten years were much easier because things didn't change as quickly!
However, I enjoy developing much more now than back then because we can achieve much more in a shorter amount of time. The tools are also soooo much better now!
I'm STILL learning something new EVERY day!
That love of learning is serving you well and likely your biggest asset.
@@IAmTimCorey ....and you certainly help us all keep doing that. Thanks Tim!
As Tim knows from a few emails we've shared, this is exactly the same boat I'm in (except I started on an HP-2000 timeshare when I was only 7, so I'll have 50(!) years of programming behind me as of the last week of this December). The one thing I've definitely noticed is that there is a lot of age discrimination being done by the online application systems. Sure, they can't ask for your birthdate, but when you graduated from high-school is a required field and I've had a few places wondering why they aren't seeing my app when they wanted me. The only possible answer (since I was fully qualified for all the positions I was applying for), is that the software was figuring out my age from the high-school date and "choosing" not to send my app on... I've had to be creative to get some positions. Right now, I work for a company where the owner's Mother cuts my hair! (Plus he and I are now business partners trying to get out of the IT Consulting arena.)
As DaveEP says, all the multiple frameworks, languages and changes are a LOT to learn when you jump into the middle. When I was starting, I pretty much learned EVERY language that was available back then and even found ways to make a language do things that it hadn't been designed for (this helped get me work with a Defense Contractor when I was still a teenager during the Cold War - does coding flight information for the Tomahawk Cruise missile make me a pseudo-Rocket Engineer??? LOL!).
Oh well, we keep trying! I still do tutorials on SOME subject every week and will until they finally replace me with A.I. (or A.S.?) and put ME into a container!
Besides the obvious aspects of Tim's videos (content and the ability to teach it), I really like how his low voice and pace sound great at 1.5 to 2x the speed! I just don't have the time for those two-hour marathon videos some do and my ADHD (squirrel!!) kicks in for any that go too slow. No offense to them (and, I'm sure, the content is very good), but some of the videos done by Indian teachers just sounds like a lot of bubbles to my ears, even at normal speed!
Go Tim, Go! :-)
I'm 10 years older with a similar background but retired a few years ago. Tim has been invaluable in learning C# so that I have been able to contribute to an Open Source project. More importantly it’s helped keep me sane during lockdown! I have always tried to learn new techniques and new languages and will continue to do so even though I no longer have a paying job that requires these skills. I am so fortunate that my entire career was spent being well paid for doing something I enjoyed 😎
I am 51 years old and a member of a visible minority group. Never stop learning. Keep absorbing new ideas from older and younger people. Teach and share what you know right away. When you learn something new, use it everyday.
I had a couple of bosses 7 years ago that told me I was too old to still be developing or learn anything new. It turned out that those 2 individuals, one after the other, got burned out and had to leave the company. Wisdom 😀
Well said! Excellent example and thanks for sharing it.
I hear you about the minority group. I am 54 and still programming. I lost my job during the pandemic and have picked up some contract work here and there but I have some grey and I have not yet begun to color my hair/beard (goatee). My wife keeps telling me to color my hair because of age prejudices. One of the last jobs that I had was for a smaller company and they got away with a lot of bs stuff because of age. I once was part of an interview process where the CIO asked the software development manager at what stage in the candidates career he was in. The answer was "end of his career" which in their eyes meant they thought that this guy was too old to put in the effort to learn new things. So that guy never had a chance no matter how well he could have done on the interview. I was repulsed at this type of thinking and am very happy that I am no longer with that company but the threat is real. People judge you based on your age in the hiring process even though here in the USA it is illeagle.
Passion is the key. A lot of programmers my age never really had the passion and burned out. Passion keeps the fire burning.
👌🏻☝️👍
53 years old this side. Been developing since age 16 on a Commodore 64 😂😂. I have built some amazing things over the last 7 years in C#. Love the language and still program every day. Love your channel.
Awesome!
I'm 59 and just started c# programming. Just do it!
Excellent!
Great!!
Hey Tim, do recommend someone like this jump into Blazor if they want to make web apps?
I recommend you start by learning C# first, rather than a specific GUI like web or desktop. However, once you learn C# and you are ready to go deeper on a specific GUI, I do recommend Blazor Server as your first option.
I am a 35 year old engineer, and I changed several jobs and languages in my past career. I feel bad about that and think whether I am too old to be a new C# developer. After watching your videos I now feel more encouraged and confident to create a new career with C#. Thank you so much.
I am glad it was encouraging. You can definitely switch careers at 35.
I’m 29 and I’ve got a Zoom interview for a graduate developer position on Monday morning. My first one ever and I’m excited but very nervous.
Good Luck! Remember, they want to know 'What you know". When they ask tough questions, share what you do know about the topic and don't dwell on the part you can't remember or the words you think they want to hear. You got this!
@@IAmTimCorey Supportive words do help a lot you are truly great 🙏 Sir
Thanks!
Thank you!
I will turn 71 in two weeks and have been writing programs since CP/M and I still enjoy helping my clients.
An early Happy Birthday! Thanks for sharing that.
I learned C# at the age of 50 and now I’m nearly 52. Loving every minute of working with C#
Great to hear!
C# is such a wonderful language to learn.
Awesome. I did something different at 50...learned to play the DRUMS!🥁
Different topic but same idea.
Go for it!!
Mary, you are an inspiration!
Lucky you!
I'm 40 and I completed .Net coding bootcamp few months ago but I still cannot get used to it.
There are so many things I do not understand or if even I understand I forget or cannot implement myself.
So far is quite overwhelming for me. Probably it is again matter of attitude.
Good video Tim! I'm 54 and have been coding for over 20 years currently developing on several C# MVC projects working for a large health care company. We have quite a few senior Devs in my department and it makes it a great organization to work for because we don't get stuck on hard stuff for very long. There are a lot of benefits to hiring an older developer.
So true. Mixing experience levels with a culture of teamwork and investing in each other is one of the best case situations.
Almost 60 (next month) and I have been developing in C# since 2008. Have developed applications in the past using C on SunOS, Amiga and PC. Also have developed VFP applications. But I still try to learn more all the time, anything to make my applications work better. I want to thank you Tim Corey and all the other developers that teach like you do.
That desire to learn seems to be serving you well.
Ahh! Hello all! I found the Senior Section and no longer feel so alone! I was a COBOL programmer from around '78, at the GAP, to my final gig at DelMonte (adding the Century to reporting and Input fields). To make a real long story short, I found C# and Tim's great video's at 64, and have been here since. Thanks, Tim!
I am glad they have been helpful.
I'm 19 fresh out of Highschool, your videos taught me C# and a lot of useful design principals, async programming, testing eg. eg. Your tutorials also cascaded into my frontend skills. I'm almost finished with my microsevice based reddit clone thanks to you!
Great to hear!
I love this question, and this video Tim!
For example I’m 55, and I used to (back in the day), be a professional programmer, but I stopped, for 13 years.
(And doing something else now)
So, sometimes I ask myself, am I too old to jump back in and be a developer now?
Of course, the answer is no! It’s not too late jump back in if I want to.
But yes, everybody can and should try a little computer programming no matter how old you are.
For example, say you’re 62 years old, or 82 years old, and you’ve always wondered what it’s like to program a computer.
This is the perfect time! So many tools are completely, I mean absolutely, completely free.
You can make incredible apps, and websites, all for free.
Great points! Thanks for sharing.
I am 53, been programming informally since my early teens, but started programming professionally at 48. I found a career that I love and am passionate about. It's never too late if you are willing to devote the time to learn and continue learning and share what you have learned.
That is awesome! I especially love that last part "and share what you have learned." Thanks for sharing.
Thanks a lot for your usual great videos. I'm 48 years old and I learn new techniques about software development every single day. And I will continue forever. Appreciate your efforts Tim.
Great to hear! That is a big part of staying effective in your job. Loving to learn is truly a gift
This is the best video yet. Most of my journey as a developer at 59 years old has been about changing myself and upgrading to be current. Now, I want to find out how to find jobs, which, as I understand, is still mainly in the hidden job market. And the posted jobs could not be filled by other means. My current work has told me to look for new contracts and fill up the extra time; I do 40 hours a month for them. But that frees up a lot of extra time to learn, grow, and seek new jobs to get paid for.
Thanks for sharing!
Very well said Tim. I develop software over 40 years now (still love punch cards and assembly). Learning new stuff is always the nice part of what I do and it is awesome to help others.
Excellent!
Very enlightening video, thanks for sharing it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
You are only too old once you stop caring about self-improvement. Nothing to do with the number.
It saddens me to think about how little TIME we have as beings to improve ourselves and our species. There is no higher goal than to improve ourselves and to help others improve.
well said Marvelcz!
I'm 70 and I'm still doing major software development in C#. I've been coding for 42 years. The trouble is that a large number of software companies think your over the hill a 35.
In my book, 70 is twice as good as 35. :-)
Got my first job at 38 years old. I'm 42 now. Self-taught. A couple of thoughts:
1. I found it important to put in the time to learn as much computer science as I could (algorithms, etc.). The internet is full of resources.
2. The kids often do have an advantage as far as a faster, younger mind (kind of like with sports)...I make up for this by working on programming after work and on weekends.
3. Be humble...because often a kid 10 or 15 years younger will know more than you. It's ok. Learn from them.
4. See if you can connect your programming to something you already know well (maybe your previous career). Domain knowledge is worth it's weight in gold.
Well said and great points. Thanks!
Great subject and comments, congratulations, TIm!
Thank you.
Hi Tim, I'm a 30 year old engineer working in the automotive industry looking for a career change into software development.
I'm about halfway through the C# Mastercourse and enjoying every step of the way.
Big thank you for all your effort!
Awesome! Thanks for sharing.
I found that, being a former newspaper writer, I could communicate better than many of my peers, which was a benefit but made their bad spelling (in code) maddening.
I also found that organizing a news story and organizing a program were not dissimilar. In fact, programming is merely communicating in a programming "language" rather than in English, and programming languages are always very limited and so much easier to learn than English.
Loving code is my superpower.
Excellent!
Thanks Tim!
This was my matter too. I am 40 now and i am civil engineer.
I am working on C# during last 3 years not continous but these days i am working on wpf. I planned to develope my win app and sell that.
This video encouraged me and was so inspiring.....
Thank bro!
I am glad you got a lot of value out of it.
I started programming at 10 and know with 32 work as professional developer for more than 7 years. There is one additional thing I think besides attitude and willingness to change is important, which comes more with age / experience and this is calmness during your work. With age came a bit more calmness which allowed me to take a step back and think about what is necessary and what is maybe hastily or short sided. Even though change is important, not everything has to be done immediately and not everything helps on this project. A view which I lacked in the youth because lets be honest every new technique / feature is exciting and you want to get coding immediately :-)
Such a great point, thanks for sharing.
I agree, Tim. The secret is to Always Be Learning.
I bought my first computer when I was 23 years old. I started out with interpreted BASIC (that was way back in 1982) and, since then I've learned many different languages including Assembly Language, Pascal, C, C++, Visual Basic, and C# just to name a few. In 1999 (the year I turned 40!) I went to work at Microsoft documenting ADO and then ADO .NET using VBScript, VB classic, JavaScript, and C++ and then VB .NET and C# .NET.
I've written Windows applications the old-fashioned way using the Windows SDK and recently wrote a C# application that accesses Amazon Web Services through the .NET SDK. Things have changed a lot since I started and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm thinking of learning Rust next.
Go for it! You are a great example for all of us. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks a lot! I am 66 years old now with 45 years of experience as a software developer, half of that time as a C# developer and I will never stop doing that:-)
Thanks for sharing!
Good healthy perspective between the content and comments!
Thanks
I'm in my mid-fifties. Twelve years ago I built a software product that managed to get market traction and today my full-time job is managing the codebase for this product (plus doing other things related to the business around it). So I work for myself. I would love to hire a younger programmer to do a lot of the lifting related to maintenance and new feature releases, but that would come out of my (comfortable) salary, so I just do the work myself. I have to say I feel burned out most days. But I plow through.
Consider what you may be missing out on:
1) new energy and creativity of a fresh mind
2) freeing you up to grow your business (and comfortable salary) faster and further
3) investing in a young mind and giving them an opportunity at a career, improved skills and even entrepreneurship experience to eventually build their own comfortable salary for themselves and they family
If you have watched my videos, then you know that I have a strong belief in helping others improve themselves. I encourage you to pay it forward.
Wow Tim! I am speechless and excited! This Video is amazing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks! keeps me motivated
Glad to hear it!
I am 48 and don't care about age discriminations. I am planning to live at least 250 years, so practically I am teenager.
lol good luck.
Im 35 and just a trainee in a Company as a IT specialist for application development in the last year of trainee.
Before I was a Welder, unfortional i can not do my Job and switch now to a application development.
Best is I startet with 0 Exp. at Programming and now I write my API´s for my C# Programms and learn with evry Project in the Company,
the hardest things i find the GUI in WPF but always Happy when I see what you can do with it.
Thanks for share that real world example. I'm sure you will inspire others on similar journeys.
Excellent post.
Thank you!
I'm 27 yrs old. I love application development in C#. But I didn't get a job on software programming instead I work as software QA engineer. But I use my software development instincts while I'm testing.
As a matter of fact. I convinced myself during my QA routine, "If I can do a better software, then I should be able to verify how well other people have developed software". So may be not today... but someday I'm gonna get a job as a developer. So... I hope today's practice will be a plus point in future when I appointed as a professional developer.
Test automation is in huge demand and can sure test your developer capabilities. Many folks make that their entire career. Find what you are enjoy and go after it, whether QA or full development.
Excellent!
Thank you very much Tim for this great lecture.
You're very welcome!
Thanks, Tim. I’m 58 years old, have 30ish years experience in network engineering and information security, and am seriously considering a change of careers. I’ve also been programming since I was 13 and it’s something I love doing (I’ve forgotten more languages than some people know - anyone for some Clu? APL? SPL [Systems Programming Language, not Shakespeare], Modula? LOL). This was just what I needed to hear.
Yup, keep going! Read the comments to find so many others right there with you.
Great video. I keep learning and this journey I hope will never end :)
I hope so too!
I'm 67, thought retirement would have beckoned by now, but still happily developing various Web and Desktop applications. One thing I can bring to the party is common sense around an app's usability. I've come across so many applications in my time where the developers have got carried away with their own 'cleverness' and not given a proper thought to how a user might interact with their all singing all dancing program. I have worked with some very clever programmers who could talk in depth about the latest design innovations and 'elegant' code, yet didn't have a clue when it came to thinking how the end product would be used and navigated. Age is definitely no barrier as long as you can produce an end product that does what it's supposed to, can be quickly debugged if necessary, and the end user enjoys working with. Simples.
Excellent points, I totally agree. I believe the proper word for what you describe is maturity. Having a well rounded perspective means you can see the need and solution from various angles. Thank you for sharing that insight.
@@tomthelestaff-iamtimcorey7597 No problem. I should have added how valuable I've found these videos and I'm learning new stuff all the time. So much help and presented in a clear, straightforward manner. Many thanks and keep them coming.
Thanks for the motivation, I'm turning 31 years old and I'm trying to get back in the IT industry as a junior developer.
You can do it!
This is very very good!
Thanks!
your teaching skill is fantastic.
Glad you think so!
Very good suggestion. I am a 55 years young Sr. Software Developer learning C# ;-)
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Tim, I just asked a question regarding age on your last video and i was told its disrespectful but glad I just found this video. Tnx
You are welcome.
I became a professional programmer in 1976. I took the C/C++/C# pathways through my career including everything Internet. Now, at age 67, no one cares to receive my resume. I understand.
You still have a lot to offer. The key is to find the right company that fits what you have to offer. Some of that comes from tailoring your resume properly and some of that just comes from continuing to submit your resume.
This guy is a UA-cam gem.
Thanks
I don’t entirely agree on the “embrace change” mantra. You have to be open for change and embrace it if it’s good. But if it’s a bad change you have to fight it with everything you’ve got. The hole web dev debacle is because every young dev jumps on every change screaming it’s the next big thing.
On the age question, it’s noble to say it’s never too late, but you shouldn’t lie to yourself. It’s never too late to become a hobbyist developer, but starting a career, with no development background at all, at 60 is too late. Even the knowledge you acquired on any other job would only be useful if you happened to have to develop some software in that line of work.
In my experience, you can't toss out so many absolutes. The world is not so "open or shut" as you describe. Sharing your wisdom based on experience can give perspective about some new software change is great but sometimes folks have to experience the mistakes themselves to truly learn. After such a mistake, a wise person coaches them through the resolution without saying 'I told you so".
Secondly, I have seen senior folks do amazing things when they set their minds to it. Learning new things often keeps them young at heart and mind. You should not discourse them if they really want to try. You might even learn from them.
I am 43 but I was fortunate when I was young to be exposed to the MS-DOS era of operating systems and programming. In a sense, properly studying software engineering and data science I have not really discovered completely new things - sure Blazor apps never existed in 1991 - but they are essentially a compound of things that did. In a sense, I feel like I have finally 'come home' more than too some strange place.
You are not alone. Others have said similar in their comments.
Hi, Tim! This is a great video. I was just thinking about this question last night. I am 37 and have been a judicial system employee in my state for almost 15 years. During that time I have been self-teaching C# (as a primary language) as well as many others, and have created many applications and utilities during that time that align with my work. I want to branch out and look at becoming a full time developer, as I feel like my skills are at that level, and I'm always hungry to expand on it. Do you have any tips for self-taught developers that are looking to make a career change without a C.S. degree?
I think my path video should help: ua-cam.com/video/LUv20QxXjfw/v-deo.html but I am also working on this topic for a dev questions video as well.
@@IAmTimCorey Thanks!
@@IAmTimCorey I took your advice in the video, assessed my skills, and decided to start your Blazor Server course on your site. I had to come back and say WOW. This is phenomenal! I've wanted to get into this sort of development for a while, and now I am really excited about how much I'll know on the other side. Thanks for doing all of this! I can't imagine the time put into it.
I am 27 years old. I have started to learn programming nearly a year ago. But I'm worried because my age could be a problem. Whenever I want to apply for a job as a junior developer, they seek at least 1 year of experience or mastery in some language(How can anyone become a master on anything in that time ?). When I want to apply as an intern, they don't seek experience, but they want you to be a student of computer sciences or related fields (computer engineering, software engineering etc.) and I'm a graduate of economics. Either way, companies don't get back to my applications, regardless I'm willing to work voluntarily untill I get some experience. Even though my interest in software development started a little bit later then it should ( I wish I should have studied a related program in the university), I feel like I have found my dream job. I don't know what I can do to kick start my career as a developer. I'm learning as many technologies (which I see are required in most job advertisements) as I can, and I'm going to build an e-trading site to somewhat prove my skills. But other than that, I don't know what to do.
Check out my other Dev Questions where I try to coach you thru this point in your career - (ua-cam.com/users/IAmTimCoreysearch?query=dev%20questions). Specifically "What Should I Have In My Portfolio?" and "How Do I Get Freelancing Clients?" Your Portfolio is where you show you have the experience, even if not paid to do it. Consider participating in open source project(s). That is great experience. You can do this. You can get past this, just keep taking ONE step at a time.
@@IAmTimCorey Thank you so much, I won't give up.
If I am not mistaken the anti-age discrimination law is only applicable for a certain age. I have on a countless number of times had other older developers/managers tell me I was just "a baby" for my age. Those remarks towards me hurt.
At least in the US, you are not allowed to discriminate based upon age. However, there are always going to be ways around that.
very inspiring stuff #thnks #Thankstimcorey
Thank you!
Tim, the same thing (age) i mentioned in my email that i sent you. Thanks for this great video.
You are welcome
Hi Tim, please can you make a video about dependency injection? explaining utilities with example. thank you
Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/mCUNrRtVVWY/v-deo.html
@@IAmTimCorey thank you!
Regarding your guest bathroom: I might have considered moving the switch to the other wall. :)
Except that the house was built in 1850 (not a typo), the walls were solid wood (the wiring was on top in a notch in the drywall and the electrical box spot was carved out of the wall), and the other side was right next to the shower (not a ton of room and in a heavy splash zone). It could have been done, but the result would have been a LOT of work (3-4 days of doing it after work at least).
61 - Developer. C# is but one language I use. Mostly doing API work at this time. Nothing beats experience and a 'can do' attitude.
Agreed!
Here in Australia there is a law about age discrimination, but employers will tell you "you are over-qualified" to reject your application and get around that law. Age discrimination in IT here esp. for developers are rampant, so if you are in mid-40s, your chances to find a role is becoming slim. Most employers and agents will just trash your CV and find someone a few years out of college. They prefer younger developers in Australia, which is BS.
The US has the same law and some employers mirror those same discriminatory practices. However, not all employers do. Keep at it. If they do tell you that you are over-qualified, you may have a discrimination case on your hands. Over-qualification is a point in your favor and most courts will see it that way.
Maybe you should have (or should in a future video) more clearly distinguish between the two questions whether in an older age to (1) get into software development as a "fresh man" and (2) proceed or stop after a long career as a software developer. You talked more about (1) and provided a very good point in favor for entering the field late, namely if one has a lot of domain expertise waiting to be put into code. But for (2) the situation and thus the answers will be entirely different. The question here is whether or to which degree aging defeats the advantages of being a veteran developer - or whether being a veteran developer has any advantage at all. There are a lot of ideas about older developers, which should be discussed and evaluated.
For example, one popular argument I am hearing a lot is outright wrong: that developers starting at 40 (or at 50 at latest) would skip (or be skipped) programming in large numbers. Why do people think so? Well, because there are so many more younger developers compared to older ones. That's of course a nonsense argument. Uncle Bob often does a funny poll when talking in front of technical folks: He starts asking who is a programmer? Almost everyone will raise their hands. Then he asks who has been a programmer for more than 5 years. Now only about half the people would raise their hands. More than 10 years? Again only half of the previous half of hands go up. And so forth. The simple and easily acceptable truth is: There have been way less people starting as programmers in the 90s, or 80s, or even 70s, than during the past 20 or even only 10 years, and even if each of the old guys is still doing their job, they will be in a hefty minority in number.
Do people become "learning resistant" in older age? Come on, that's a foolish stereotype, which has no real basis. Personally (50 now, having started programming at 14 and doing so with nearly no off-time) I have been learning new stuff and adjusting constantly, and I believe I am just getting better at it, not worse. I have all reason to believe so, simply because I can compare my "learning trajectory" with other developers of different ages, and I don't think I am doing badly. And I have worked with other older guys (not few of them older than myself) who are just fast and furious learners, bringing new topics and methods into productive code in very little time. So that argument again is largely moot.
Does physical decline through age has a strong impact on the ability to develop software? One would expect so, but then, I believe the effect isn't all too strong (in particular if people continue to do sports), and for many people before their time of retirement it can be largely neglected. After all, we are not talking about trying to go for Olympic gold in a track and field discipline or winning the football world cup. Maybe someone above 70 shouldn't try to win any of those competitive programming competitions out there. But when it comes to quality, clean architecture, writing good test suites, debugging abilities, and overall making reasonable decisions and knowing what not to do, I would generally put my money on the older guy rather than the younger.
In fact, I've been lucky to work in teams where experience and past successes was highly regarded, and even was a primary reason for getting the job. So, sorry, you young people, some of your ideas about us older dev folks turns out to be just myth or wishful thinking - but you'll getting there to find out yourself sooner than you like! :-)
I'll add that suggestion to the list.
If your client contact is older, nearer your age, you have a higher chance of being considered. Ageism is almost the rule for recruiters. The older you get, the more you need to have direct contacts with the people actually hiring the developer.
Thanks for sharing.
I love this series.
Thank you
Hi Tim, I visited your channel few days back and found you have really good information in your videos. May I make a request if you could make videos on caching?
I will add it to the list. Thanks for the suggestion.
I remember when Visual Basic 3 was released and it allowed people with no dev skills to write programs. The result was thousands of catastrophic applications and thousands of people giving bad advise about app development, and even today we have not recovered. If you are 60 years old and don’t have aptitude and/or experience in the fundamentals of computing, do the world a favor and take up something else, maybe knitting, tennis, golf, guitar, fishing... but stay away from programming because it requires intense application of logic and the learning curve will last until you are 80.
I disagree with this comment. The assumption is that only a senior developer can positively contribute to an application. That's flat-out wrong.
Great video, but you missed a very important aspect of an old developer. How much can you earn? I have been programming since 1992 and I have been using C# since 2003 so that is about 17 years. Do companies care if you have 17 years of C# programming? No! Older programmers get to a point where you reach an earnings ceiling. I am constantly trying to learn new tech like React, Vue, Backbone, all of the testing frameworks, etc… but does my experience of 17 years plus knowing all of these technologies really boost my earning well beyond a young programmer with say 5 years of experience? No! Would a company pay me $150? No! They can pay a younger programmer $25 to do the same work. Yes! I am seeing this every day.
This is what I am experiencing now and trying to find an answer, how to keep growing my earnings? I like programming, but I have reached a point where my earnings have flatten out. Made I should start doing videos like you ;)
How much you can earn is very subjective. Before I stopped consulting altogether, my rate was $500/hour and I still had to turn people away. Experience does matter. How could I justify charging that much? Because I could save the companies I worked with more than that. A younger, less experienced developer might have great ideas and start coding right away. I'll make sure the team is pointed in the right direction so that we reach the finish line with less effort, while avoiding the pitfalls the younger developer doesn't know are there.
As for how you can keep growing your income, part of it comes with how you present yourself. Part of it comes with having a proven track record of success. Confidence is also a big part of it. Knowing why you are a valuable employee and what additional you bring to the table helps you present yourself well.
@@IAmTimCorey That sounds like I video I would watch. What was your career path to making $500 an hour? I am sure this channel helps.
Hi Tim, very encouraging words, at the time feel like am becoming too old to programme. But question i want to ask. in c# my target is to develop enterprise web/ desktop based applications. what would you advice?
Go for it.
Hello.. What kind off editor or ide do companies use.. Thank you in advance
For C#? Visual Studio, almost exclusively. It is the best IDE for C# development. You can use VSCode if you are on Windows, Mac, or Linux as another option, and you can use Visual Studio for Mac if you are on a Mac. Another option, which isn't free (but Visual Studio isn't free for companies that make more than $1 million per year) is a third-party product like JetBrains Rider.
Not even kidding. I literally recently purchased Just For Men hair dye. Covid lockdowns... Anyone else feeling like a wilted old grey flower? Remote work can become depressing too. Wow, another timely video. So encouraged by the comments here. Looking forward to aging together with y'all. (ok boomer) Shut up kid.
Love it!! Thanks for sharing. I'm right there with you ... except maybe the hair dye - LOL
I've had a boss or two... who was stuck in the 1980's COBOL world. Trying to do .NET Web Forms (early 2000's)... following their COBOL mindset and restrictions... wasn't fun. They weren't willing to change.
That type mindset just won't last. Thanks for sharing.
Hi! I started C.S degree at 40 together with full time work three years ago and now I have one more year. Cobol has many minuses, but if your mind is open to new (or very old) things - it's that matters. Deep inside it's same thing as other - you have a task/problem and you have to understand how it's working now (if exists) and how to make a solution. I started my first job before two weeks as Cobol Programmer, after I learned at university Java, C, Assembler, ... . After little shock I undestand - it's not the language, it's you.
I'm 56. C# developer for 20 years. Nobody wants me anymore. They give stupid reasons why I'm not the one anymore: like I'm too pragmatic or too extravert. Reasons I have never heard before. When I applied for a job useally I got it after one meeting.
Not anymore.
So, I'm looking for something else now.
I hate to see you give up. The industry needs your skill and experience, even if they don't realize it. Hang in there.
@@IAmTimCorey Thanks ☺👍
You should do a video explaining unsafe code and pointers in C#.
I will add it to the list. Thanks for the suggestion.
Since people are giving you advice about what you should and should not do, let me chip in. You should explain unsafe code in C++, C, assembly, but if someone wants to know about pointers in C# tell them that they are inherently unsafe and stay away from computing.
Good topic. I'm 43 this year.
Young pup!
@@IAmTimCorey Years back when I started my career, all my peers are older than me. Now, it's the opposite, I am the oldest among my peers.
All development comes down to how precisely you can move and precision motor skills. Numerical age is irrelevant. But once you lose your fine motor skills, you’re done as a dev.
Losing fine motor skills would be tough, but there is still a place to lead other developers, help test products, perform QA, and a lot more even without fine motor skills.
Age may not be a problem. Way of thinking can. I don't mean emotions here.
Do you have any advice, besides get more experience, on how to approach problems, plan for more than you can foresee? Think like a programmer? Think like a developer? Just think... better?
Way of thinking may hinder ones success.
I hope that you understand my question.
Regards :)
Interesting question(s). I put it on the list
Younger developers have just as many drawbacks to consider, they don't have experience of dealing with clients, troubleshooting, they may still have to go through becoming a parent which always takes it's toll, they may be more driven by salary as they have a new mortgage or baby to consider. There are many, many reasons why an employer might choose one age group over another but employment aside there is no reason anyone is ever too old to code. That said, im only 50 and found myself saying recently "if the Metaverse becomes part of everyday life then i'm moving to a forest and dropping out" 😀
Thanks for sharing.
What are the pros and cons of Software Engineer and Software Consultant? Would you recommend a new developer (1 year experience) to go in Consultancy?
Great question. I will add it to the list.
Question, I’m 15 now but I started programming C# 2 years ago, is it possible for me to get a job as soon as I get out of high school as a software engineer?
Yes, it is possible, but it will take work on your part. I would recommend following this video: ua-cam.com/video/LUv20QxXjfw/v-deo.html as well as the videos in the Dev Questions playlist about getting a job, your portfolio, and even about getting freelancing clients.
I am 38 and started again two years ago. I have already an u degree, but was doing something else for the last 10 years. The problem is I am not able to get freelance jobs. I guess because I have no direct experience in the last years. May be I am to dumb... 😜
Nope, I don't think you are. Getting work can be tricky. Here are some videos that will help you improve your odds: ua-cam.com/video/JnTw3VBz3rg/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/JSSfcXSiq1I/v-deo.html
@@IAmTimCorey thanks I will have a look on it!
to sum it up, you need an enthusiasm in programming to become a developer.
That is very helpful.
As long as you can still C Sharp your not to old.
Truth!
hi @iamtimcorey, can you provide a coupon for a monthly membership to reduce to price if I want to try your service?
I'm sorry, it is already at its discounted rate. For $50, you get access to over $1,000 worth of courses, plus you get access to all new publicly-available courses.
@@IAmTimCorey Hi tim, I'm trying to subscribe but I don't see the option to subscribe to the all access pass anymore, any tips?
I thought I am late 2 years back when I was 34.
oh, to be 34 again...
Doesn't matter how much experience you have there's a lot of ageism in the business.
Legally, there isn't allowed to be. Part of it is to find the right company.
@@IAmTimCorey Legally, that's true, but only for permanent employees, and, in practice, I have never heard of a company being penalised for ageism in their hiring process. Companies even boast of the youthfulness of their people.
I have given up on continuing to program since in my best days I did not achieve what I set out to do, especially now that I am old. All I hope is to finish the current project and shoot myself. I need a reset, maybe I will retry it in another life.
There are a number of things to discuss here, but let’s start out right away with the most important: I would recommend calling the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (Lifeline) at 1-800-273-TALK (8255), or text the Crisis Text Line (text HELLO to 741741). They are there to help you (much better than I can). If you are out of the US, visit this website for help in your area: www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/
Now let’s talk about the different parts of what you said. First, your best days don’t have to be behind you. That is perspective. I don’t know what your situation is, but I can share a bit of mine. Within a couple of years time, I was fired, I was told that I was going to probably die by doctors on two separate occasions, I had a major customer cancel a contract, and I spent over a year with hives covering my body that constantly itched (the medication I took for it was potentially lethal - I took it but it didn’t work). Those were some rough years, yet I would not trade them for anything. Yes, I have long-term issues because of them but I would not be where I am today without them. If I focused solely on how bad I felt, I would not have made it through. Instead, I focused on two things: God and helping others.
I don’t know what you believe about life after death, but I can tell you this: you need to figure it out before you die. Life isn’t a video game. Personally, I believe in Jesus from the Bible. Religion says that you must be good enough to earn something after you die. The problem with that is if you believe that there is a God, how much bigger would he be compared to us? How could anything we do be big enough to even warrant his notice? We can barely create structures that are seen from low orbit. A God that created billions of stars can’t think that living a good life is somehow significant. The difference with Jesus is that he didn’t ask us to do anything - he did it. He just asks for us to accept his sacrifice in our place. The things we do after salvation have no bearing on our salvation - they are purely done in gratitude for what Jesus has done for us.
So that’s the first part of what got me through some tough times. The fact that this is bigger than me and that there is more to life than what I have right now. The second part that got me through was being able to help others. Sometimes that was tiny things. Sometimes, I was able to do bigger things. No matter what I did, though, I was able to make someone else’s life a bit better. In doing so, I was able to give them something to smile about. Giving someone else something to smile about is the best way to make yourself smile.
The next thing you talked about was being old. Are you dead yet? If not, you still have more life to experience. More joy to give. You can make a big impact on others no matter your age.
Shooting yourself is not a reset. Life isn’t a video game. You get one opportunity to figure out what is important. Don’t give up before you figure it out.
You have value. You have a purpose. I am rooting for you.
@@IAmTimCorey I read somewhere that knowledge attracts unhappiness and I can testify to it. Before I was 15 I was about to die in 6 different events, from there and unexpectedly I began to be interested in topics called "transcendental", specifically why we are here and what will happen the day we leave. So I came across the Bible, a couple of years later. After inquiring from here to there and having lived within a Franciscan community, today I can say with certainty that I know the keys to interpreting the Bible and -I do not want to be rude with anyone but, people misinterpret the book. There is so much lies in what religions say because the book deals with very different (and perverse) things. As an example I'll tell you that the figure of Jesus in principle is not that of a man but a woman, from there we are already involved in a deception. The hatred of men is embodied within the whole Bible itself, as unprecedented as it is true. This knowledge is what I am talking about and that makes me understand that something is wrong in origin in the world.
The world is in the hands of evil beings and each of us is at their own.
Having said that, this plan of mine for the short or medium term is product of meditation of many years, it is not a matter of having run into some new difficulties and not finding the way out. I firmly believe that the soul transcends the body and that it does not die when we leave here but, as the phrase "give up the ghost" clearly indicates, we only give up the fruit of our work and wait for the next mission. In life you succeed and you fail, my case it's the latter and I am not afraid to admit it as well as I am aware that the opportunities are gone and it is time of acceptance and return. There are hard but necessary decisions to take when a person's dignity is at stake. I don't think anybody deserve to live in poverty after giving everything he had in this life and I don't expect to be old enough to even remember who I am. I was sent to do a job without required tools/associates and that is my complaint. I NEVER HAD A CHANCE, period.
Finally, we should not cling to life so much as it is fleeting anyway. Thanks for your support. You are a good man., Tim
Is it possible more than one like?
I appreciate this one!
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how old is too young
You are never too young to be a developer. You may be too young to be hired, but you can still create great applications on your own.
I liked this channel more when this was about clear and quick .NET technology tutorials.
I can appreciate that. A time will come when these topics will mean a lot more to you.
@@IAmTimCorey I didn't say that these videos are not useful. I said that I didn't like the shift in focus on the channel. That's different.
@limelight81 Wow it seems you had a bad day buddy. Chill.
Hahaha I'm 48
We are in the same range.
@@IAmTimCorey I agreed with what you told in the video. Somehow not many interviewer like you.
@@IAmTimCorey thank you very much for the video. I have shared it with my friends.
Im 12, bisecxual, i droppled one grade, am i too old to learn programming? Should i just give up?
Never give up! Believe in yourself and set reasonable short term goals. You can do this.
@@IAmTimCorey thanks Timcorey i will become net developer, big and strong like you (but with hair)