Still have a stock 272 that I purchased used years ago when I realized I would be cutting some bigger hardwoods. 28-in bar on it, and I love that thing to death!
Hello. I posted the results from the timed runs in the description. Some thoughts & qualifying info is also addressed. Questions might already be answered. "News Flash" - I've completed the teardown/bench talk session. This saw is never going to be great in stock form unless there is some sort of electronic spark retarder that "reboots" the spark curve after a certain number of hours of use. I'm betting that is just not the case. Even if it did, the port timing is not going make for a really awesome running saw. It's physics. No way around it. I've been around saws since in the mid '70s. Do they "turn the corner" and wake up a bit, yes. Do they "wake up" and and gain "all kinds of power", sadly no. So, no matter how many tanks of fuel you run through it, it is just going to be lagging. The internal design was targeted to burning clean as the primary point as far as I can tell. Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 372 xp the best revolutions are in the range of 13,200 - 13,800 rpm what do you think it turned out to be on the dynamometer. What do you think about it.......
Love watching your videos Jack, you always show us how one saw or brand will compare to another, stock or modified, keep up the good work and stay safe.
In Mr. Jack's Echo 7310 series many comments, statements, and questions have been asked. Several as to the tuning in delivered form and statements about the E.P.A. If you have attended any factory service schools in the past or work for any of the mentioned manufacturers, the dialog is " the saw must be tuned to the leanest running condition". All internal combustion engines must meet certain specs. Usually there is a sticker somewhere around the rear handle stating that spec. and an hour number that particular model is expected to maintain those emissions. If I am not mistaken Echo is marketing the 7310 as their most powerful saw. Many are hopeful the 7310 will be legendary on both coasts, and exceed what Stihl and Husqvarna offer. If it could be done I would think Dolmar/Makita/Solo would/could have done this with a larger line and more competitive offerings. From a manufacturing/ engineering perspective it is also important to understand these people "job hop" in the automotive, motorcycle, and chainsaw industries. To say other manufacturers had nothing to do with this product may be mis-leading. The price-point of this carbureted unit is definitely an attractive factor from a very good company. Mr. Jack is doing an excellent job of establishing his base-line for the 7310.
Brian hi. 300 hrs is pretty standard for the pro version saws I've looked at. The 7310 is the same. Good point you brought up there! I'm going with what Dave said right this second, but will add in my .02💰 worth at some point. I've completed the tear down & bench talk session at this juncture. There are a few interesting points but nothing indicates that after the 12 - 15 tanks everyone is mentioning a 7310 will " turn the corner" and all of a sudden be this "super mo betta mo-chine". I agree with the state of tune that you noted coming from the factory. That's not helping. Port arraignment isn't either. It has an interesting engine design addition that, if done properly, will help the end result once zipped. In stock form, this saw will never be formidable. Well, imho anyway. Thanks for the point of view.
@@hotsaws101 I thought the comment may have been too long winded but reasoned you would remove it if so. As I stated in other comments you understood me perfectly Sir, thank you.
Sweet barn find... Not sure why this channel is not bigger. It is obvious Sherman knows his "stuff" < Made it family friendly. :-)....Maybe it's a more hardcore saw-mans thing for the Feller's and Faller's of the world. ...That said I would like to see more shop time stuff. You know what they say. Beggars can't be choosers
Ironwood Workman hi. Thanks, and for sure. I think it is because this channel is not so much about self promotion, sensationalism, and "dramma"/entertainment as it is about education. I'm just a man that fell a fair amount of timber and worked on his saws in a number of decades. I try to show technique/tricks and how different saws, in varying states of tune, compare. I think that there is a fair amount of nuance seen in some of the falling videos. Maybe it takes experience to see experience, idk. I think that some creators hear about a certain technique, make a video, and try and sell it as there own, or that they are the expert on it. I think that there are a number of creators that, from the titling, are of the opinion that whatever they are doing is the best thing since sliced bread. Let's face it, in today's society, sensationalism & "dramma" sells. On the other side, having made SO many mistakes while falling timber, maybe I'm just a realist. Yes it takes some skill. But it also takes a WHOLE Lotta luck - or what I consider as a believer, the concept of God was smiling on me there. Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Yep.... That sounds about right....maybe it dose take one to know one. Pro's always make it look "simple and easy". So people think it is "simple and easy" ( Nothing to see here. Right? Lol ) Anyhow, I'm happy God has smiled on you and yours. I'm sure you will have many blessed days ahead and I will get to watch many good videos when I get time. This is the best TV in the world... it is Real TV :-) Not reality television.
Jamie hi. Not surprising. They are not set up internally to be "taking names". They do have some potential though. I'll be exploring that part here shortly. Thanks for watching.
I beleive the cs7310p is 51mm bore and 36mm stroke. I picked one up the at the dealer the other day. But I didn't have $1200.(Canadian) on me, so I had to put it down. 😕
Steve hi. Yes sir. 51mm bore. Mathematically, it then has to have a 36mm stroke. Bummer. When I win the lotto, I will kick down, lol! The 462 will gobble it up. Not sure of the exchange rate, but, if they are any where close to the same 💲 amount. If they are, buy the Stihl. Less mass and way more power Thanks for watching.
From what I've been able to read and gather from various places, the factory tunes on the echos dont do them any favors. Once they are broke in they seem a good bit better but they certainly need that little nudge. With all that said, I'll take a slower cut every time for that precision Japanese manufacturing and quality.
Mr Steeves hi. Agreed. So then extrapolating, even when it turn the corner and wakes up it will still be behind the curve. Big nudge from my perspective. I added to the pinned comment. The Bench Talk session has been captured. A few more saw-offs slated then we will see. Thanks for watching.
Confused as to why that echo runs so poorly, maybe a bad one? Though you mentioned about limiter caps, can you even tune the saw properly with those in or are you just going with like out of factory? Yet mbea1s one ran right with a 572 with long bar and big wood🤯 after he turned it properly🤷♂️
Perhaps it will a long time before Echo will be a saw of choice for professional timber fallers that have to put board feet down day in and day out, Stihl and Husqvarna will probably rule for some time. Most fallers around my neck, Sierra Nevada’s seem to prefer non EPA saws.
@@andrewslagle1974 you are right, how ever all non “ epa” saw are not created equal, however as Jack indicated in his description after a trip to the saw shop the “non impressive” first take of the Echo may change. Perhaps it will become the go to saw for fallers all across the West Coast.
DolmarDog-Rick hi. This is my R&D. Bone stock, and I mean bone stock in it's entirety. I know how the 0, 1, & 2 series Stihl behave. I know how the 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 series Husqvarna saws behave. The 6400 to 7901 Dolmar/Makita saws as well. Even the 590 & 620 Echo. We are looking at what you get if you take a completely stock 7310 off the shelf and head up in the mountains with it. We watched the tuning happening. The 7310 at 13,080 sounds like it's going to unravel. There may be a run time time preset in the coil that alters the curve after a certain number of hours of use. I doubt it, but with the way electronics are today, anything is possible. Will this saw get to a place and turn the corner, surely. Will it all of a sudden produce ½ again as much power, I highly doubt that as well. This testing is conducted at ~ 2800'. Things change at elevation with the way saws run. That is an unknown quantity for those that have not operated saws above 3000 feet - which seems to be the "magic number" for when the power loss really starts to become noticeable. It's not to bad until around 3k in elevation from my experience. Seems like after that, every 500 feet becomes increasingly straining for a saw to make power. The 661 m-tronic system has them struggling when the temp gets up around 80 here. It was mid 70s this day. At around 5000' you will be leaving your m-tronic 661 in the truck. The 7310 is not going to be much different from what I'm seeing here. The 7310 was tuned at high idle to within 60 rpms of the stock 272. Not perfectly fair but close enough for what is going in this test session. Both saws are off the shelf stock. The Psy-Ko 272 was slobbering at 13,320 and completely laid waste them both. In the end, the 7310, in bone stock form is lagging from what I've seen so far. Thanks for watching.
Larry hi. I really appreciated this comment. in Stock form, Concur. Does it have some potential, yessirreee! Stay tuned as it is on the bench "as we speak". Thanks for watching.
Sensei948 hi. Depends upon upon a few factors. The cleaner component in the additive package in the mix oil being on the forefront. The base stock grade is also going to play a role. The lubrication component in the additive package is going to have an affect. The needle position (if it is even possible to manually adjust the carb) will be a contributing factor as well. The amount of idling time is going to affect the amount of carbon build up. If the mo-chine is being used hard, medium hard, lightly. will affect build up. The condition of the air cleaner is going to affect how the mo-chine runs and how the process of combustion happens as well. Residual mix oil, that is excessive amounts, will hold in latent heat. Here is the bottom line for me: That is not an oil I would use, under any circumstance. I run top shelf oil. I mix ~ 48/50:1. I like being able to adjust the carb manually to get the mo-chine in the sweet spot. There is no way for me to tell the out come for you because the there are to many contributing factors that I'm not privy to. Experimentation. That is going to be the only way for you to tell how the machine responds. Best of luck. Thanks for watching.
Ready to see the 7310 ported I picked one up a couple months ago.
Still have a stock 272 that I purchased used years ago when I realized I would be cutting some bigger hardwoods. 28-in bar on it, and I love that thing to death!
Hello.
I posted the results from the timed runs in the description. Some thoughts & qualifying info is also addressed. Questions might already be answered.
"News Flash" - I've completed the teardown/bench talk session. This saw is never going to be great in stock form unless there is some sort of electronic spark retarder that "reboots" the spark curve after a certain number of hours of use. I'm betting that is just not the case. Even if it did, the port timing is not going make for a really awesome running saw. It's physics. No way around it.
I've been around saws since in the mid '70s. Do they "turn the corner" and wake up a bit, yes. Do they "wake up" and and gain "all kinds of power", sadly no. So, no matter how many tanks of fuel you run through it, it is just going to be lagging. The internal design was targeted to burning clean as the primary point as far as I can tell.
Thanks for watching.
I'm sure after you do your majic on that echo it'll run great
@@larrywarner9314 hi. From what I've seen, it has potential. Thanks for watching.
Hello Jack Wuts your normal turn around when building someone's saw ? I'd like you to build one of my saws if your able too
@@hotsaws101 372 xp the best revolutions are in the range of 13,200 - 13,800 rpm what do you think it turned out to be on the dynamometer. What do you think about it.......
I had almost managed to forget you had that as new 272 and you go and bring it out...
Love watching your videos Jack, you always show us how one saw or brand will compare to another, stock or modified, keep up the good work and stay safe.
In Mr. Jack's Echo 7310 series many comments, statements, and questions have been asked. Several as to the tuning in delivered form and statements about the E.P.A. If you have attended any factory service schools in the past or work for any of the mentioned manufacturers, the dialog is " the saw must be tuned to the leanest running condition". All internal combustion engines must meet certain specs. Usually there is a sticker somewhere around the rear handle stating that spec. and an hour number that particular model is expected to maintain those emissions. If I am not mistaken Echo is marketing the 7310 as their most powerful saw. Many are hopeful the 7310 will be legendary on both coasts, and exceed what Stihl and Husqvarna offer. If it could be done I would think Dolmar/Makita/Solo would/could have done this with a larger line and more competitive offerings. From a manufacturing/ engineering perspective it is also important to understand these people "job hop" in the automotive, motorcycle, and chainsaw industries. To say other manufacturers had nothing to do with this product may be mis-leading. The price-point of this carbureted unit is definitely an attractive factor from a very good company. Mr. Jack is doing an excellent job of establishing his base-line for the 7310.
Brian hi.
300 hrs is pretty standard for the pro version saws I've looked at. The 7310 is the same. Good point you brought up there!
I'm going with what Dave said right this second, but will add in my .02💰 worth at some point.
I've completed the tear down & bench talk session at this juncture.
There are a few interesting points but nothing indicates that after the 12 - 15 tanks everyone is mentioning a 7310 will " turn the corner" and all of a sudden be this "super mo betta mo-chine".
I agree with the state of tune that you noted coming from the factory. That's not helping. Port arraignment isn't either.
It has an interesting engine design addition that, if done properly, will help the end result once zipped.
In stock form, this saw will never be formidable. Well, imho anyway.
Thanks for the point of view.
@@hotsaws101 I thought the comment may have been too long winded but reasoned you would remove it if so. As I stated in other comments you understood me perfectly Sir, thank you.
the 7310s we have did not wake up till 10/12 tanks of fuel. the air filtration system is the best i have ever seen!
Oh man! I can't wait to see the magic happen to that echo. The full wrap is going to be epic I'm sure.
Great video! Those 272's though!👍 cant wait to see what that Echo will do!
we are all drooling with anticipation on hi hopes for the echo....
To me all 3 of these saws are amongst the best 272 an 372 are legendary and the 7310 is destined for it too
I’m sure it will turn out pretty good. Mweba built one not long after they arrived in the states. Seems pretty powerful
Sweet barn find... Not sure why this channel is not bigger. It is obvious Sherman knows his "stuff" < Made it family friendly. :-)....Maybe it's a more hardcore saw-mans thing for the Feller's and Faller's of the world. ...That said I would like to see more shop time stuff. You know what they say. Beggars can't be choosers
Ironwood Workman hi.
Thanks, and for sure.
I think it is because this channel is not so much about self promotion, sensationalism, and "dramma"/entertainment as it is about education. I'm just a man that fell a fair amount of timber and worked on his saws in a number of decades. I try to show technique/tricks and how different saws, in varying states of tune, compare.
I think that there is a fair amount of nuance seen in some of the falling videos. Maybe it takes experience to see experience, idk.
I think that some creators hear about a certain technique, make a video, and try and sell it as there own, or that they are the expert on it. I think that there are a number of creators that, from the titling, are of the opinion that whatever they are doing is the best thing since sliced bread. Let's face it, in today's society, sensationalism & "dramma" sells.
On the other side, having made SO many mistakes while falling timber, maybe I'm just a realist. Yes it takes some skill. But it also takes a WHOLE Lotta luck - or what I consider as a believer, the concept of God was smiling on me there.
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Yep.... That sounds about right....maybe it dose take one to know one. Pro's always make it look "simple and easy". So people think it is "simple and easy" ( Nothing to see here. Right? Lol )
Anyhow, I'm happy God has smiled on you and yours. I'm sure you will have many blessed days ahead and I will get to watch many good videos when I get time. This is the best TV in the world... it is Real TV :-) Not reality television.
51mm bore and 36mm stroke according to the dealer local to myself.
I've saw a few videos of the old 372's edging out new broke in 7310's
Jamie hi. Not surprising. They are not set up internally to be "taking names". They do have some potential though.
I'll be exploring that part here shortly.
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 ya they are a very well built saw with alot of potential for gains. Donny Walker has been in some with good results
I beleive the cs7310p is 51mm bore and 36mm stroke. I picked one up the at the dealer the other day. But I didn't have $1200.(Canadian) on me, so I had to put it down. 😕
Steve hi. Yes sir. 51mm bore. Mathematically, it then has to have a 36mm stroke.
Bummer. When I win the lotto, I will kick down, lol!
The 462 will gobble it up. Not sure of the exchange rate, but, if they are any where close to the same 💲 amount. If they are, buy the Stihl. Less mass and way more power
Thanks for watching.
Sheesh I need my 372 opened up. That modded 272 is a ripper
If I'm getting paid by the hour, I'd take he stock Echo. You can't beat fresh home grown eggs.
From what I've been able to read and gather from various places, the factory tunes on the echos dont do them any favors. Once they are broke in they seem a good bit better but they certainly need that little nudge. With all that said, I'll take a slower cut every time for that precision Japanese manufacturing and quality.
Mr Steeves hi. Agreed. So then extrapolating, even when it turn the corner and wakes up it will still be behind the curve.
Big nudge from my perspective.
I added to the pinned comment.
The Bench Talk session has been captured. A few more saw-offs slated then we will see.
Thanks for watching.
Confused as to why that echo runs so poorly, maybe a bad one? Though you mentioned about limiter caps, can you even tune the saw properly with those in or are you just going with like out of factory? Yet mbea1s one ran right with a 572 with long bar and big wood🤯 after he turned it properly🤷♂️
Perhaps it will a long time before Echo will be a saw of choice for professional timber fallers that have to put board feet down day in and day out, Stihl and Husqvarna will probably rule for some time. Most fallers around my neck, Sierra Nevada’s seem to prefer non EPA saws.
@@Smokey66s the echo is the most non epa you can get today. the ones we have did not wake up for 10/12 tanks.
@@andrewslagle1974 you are right, how ever all non “ epa” saw are not created equal, however as Jack indicated in his description after a trip to the saw shop the “non impressive” first take of the Echo may change. Perhaps it will become the go to saw for fallers all across the West Coast.
DolmarDog-Rick hi.
This is my R&D. Bone stock, and I mean bone stock in it's entirety. I know how the 0, 1, & 2 series Stihl behave. I know how the 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 series Husqvarna saws behave. The 6400 to 7901 Dolmar/Makita saws as well. Even the 590 & 620 Echo.
We are looking at what you get if you take a completely stock 7310 off the shelf and head up in the mountains with it.
We watched the tuning happening. The 7310 at 13,080 sounds like it's going to unravel.
There may be a run time time preset in the coil that alters the curve after a certain number of hours of use. I doubt it, but with the way electronics are today, anything is possible.
Will this saw get to a place and turn the corner, surely. Will it all of a sudden produce ½ again as much power, I highly doubt that as well.
This testing is conducted at ~ 2800'. Things change at elevation with the way saws run. That is an unknown quantity for those that have not operated saws above 3000 feet - which seems to be the "magic number" for when the power loss really starts to become noticeable. It's not to bad until around 3k in elevation from my experience. Seems like after that, every 500 feet becomes increasingly straining for a saw to make power.
The 661 m-tronic system has them struggling when the temp gets up around 80 here. It was mid 70s this day. At around 5000' you will be leaving your m-tronic 661 in the truck. The 7310 is not going to be much different from what I'm seeing here.
The 7310 was tuned at high idle to within 60 rpms of the stock 272. Not perfectly fair but close enough for what is going in this test session. Both saws are off the shelf stock.
The Psy-Ko 272 was slobbering at 13,320 and completely laid waste them both.
In the end, the 7310, in bone stock form is lagging from what I've seen so far.
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Two stock saws, the Husqvarna sporting 24 year old technology and all original.....
Jack it's a chicken whimpy saw 😆
Larry hi. I really appreciated this comment. in Stock form, Concur. Does it have some potential, yessirreee! Stay tuned as it is on the bench "as we speak".
Thanks for watching.
Master, is it possible to pour 33: 1 husqvarna ls + to drink 372xp 357xp and scythe 545rx? Will not jam the piston rings with carbon?
Sensei948 hi.
Depends upon upon a few factors. The cleaner component in the additive package in the mix oil being on the forefront. The base stock grade is also going to play a role. The lubrication component in the additive package is going to have an affect.
The needle position (if it is even possible to manually adjust the carb) will be a contributing factor as well. The amount of idling time is going to affect the amount of carbon build up.
If the mo-chine is being used hard, medium hard, lightly. will affect build up.
The condition of the air cleaner is going to affect how the mo-chine runs and how the process of combustion happens as well.
Residual mix oil, that is excessive amounts, will hold in latent heat.
Here is the bottom line for me: That is not an oil I would use, under any circumstance. I run top shelf oil. I mix ~ 48/50:1. I like being able to adjust the carb manually to get the mo-chine in the sweet spot.
There is no way for me to tell the out come for you because the there are to many contributing factors that I'm not privy to.
Experimentation. That is going to be the only way for you to tell how the machine responds.
Best of luck.
Thanks for watching.
yer talking about that 272 like ya found 57 chevy 2door . lol only kiddin
Damon hi.
For those of us with the "disease", it is much like what you state.
I do what I do - For The Love Of Saws!
Thanks for watching.