Agree with your choices. I buy sodium percarbonate off eBay as its cheaper again (the price you quoted I can only dream of). The downside is that if soaking you can get a chalky deposit on bottles, which require an acid rinse to remove. I use citric acid for that because its cheaper than StarSan.
I use a restaurant surface cleaner. Very similar to starsan but with hydrogen peroxide added. (Don't use on copper). They sell it as being no rinse food safe, but I always rinse or it'll oxidize beer or wine terribly. $25 for a concentrated gallon and it lasts 2 years for me. I like not having the filmy perchlorates aka bleach based cleaners. I do use pbw on occasion for my beer system when really dirty but I prefer to use the non chlorine based cleaners.
One thing that many, many people miss with starsan is that the manufacturer says it is only good for one hour after you mix it into a solution. The surfactants stop working fairly quickly, and that is what breaks down the lipids on the outside of bacteria and let the acids do their jobs. It is also like you said what makes it "cling" to the surface, keep the surface wet for the time needed, and also it reduces the surface tension allowing the sanitizer to wick into tiny nooks and crannies. When the surfactant stops working it will not be doing the sanitization job you think it is as the effectiveness is greatly reduced. Whenever you need to use starsan mix it fresh, use it and discard what is left after an hour or two. Don't keep it around for all day or put it in a spray bottle thinking it will last a week or more. You also don't need to mix that much, 2 1/2 gallons is plenty to sanitize my 6 gallon fermenter and all tools needed for a brew day and if something distracts or delays me making a second batch is no big deal.
Thanks for pointing that out. As a pretty strong acid it should be relatively effective with or without the surfactants at full strength. It generally seems to "stick" to the surface well long after it has been mixed (many days) but may not be as effective at penetrating the cell walls quickly.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel It really isn't "a pretty strong acid" you can check this yourself by checking the PH of a diluted starsan solution. It needs the surfactant action to work properly on the microbial level. Lastly, under the labeled directions for use, the first statement: "It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.". This is because it is considered a pest control product, so its use is strictly regulated. Nowhere does it say on the label it is intended to be mixed and used over a long term, it instructs to mix and use immediately. When Star-San themselves have been asked they have repeatedly reiterated that the product is only meant to be used within 1 hour of mixing. You may "feel" it is still working because it appears so to you but when the manufacturer themselves say it has lost its ability to properly disinfect and sanitize maybe you should listen to them instead of your feelings.
@@davidkraiger4377 No, no it does not. The surfactant sticks to itself so it starts slowly deactivating itself once mixed into solution, the surfactant is part of what is needed for it to be an effective sanitizing solution, not just the acid.
Cool, I'm right there with you - Oxy Clean and StarSan. I actually use Oxy Clean Max found at 2 of the membership big box stores. Even cheaper. Cheerz.
Just out of curiosity. I was considering making a cherry mead from pure black cherry juice and unpasteurized honey. What pH would you recommend I strive for? Merry Christmas once again, and thanks.
would love to ask some questions. is there a way I can remove methernal in the wine before drinking? or is there a tool I can measure the a mount of methernal content in my wine ?
The foam is pretty normal with starsan. It is loaded with surfactants and bubbles up pretty good. It may be possible that your water source is "soft" also, which would exaggerate the bubbling aspect. The beauty of starsan is that it will stick to the walls of your container and do it's job without you needing to fill it to the top. It is "no rinse" but I like to rinse at least once because I don't need surfactants throwing off the surface tension of my wine.
Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas! Pop open some good wine over the holidays.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel 😆 👍
It's been awhile. Thanks for letting us know about the oxicleen. I will be using it
It works great! Especially on things that would otherwise stain easily like wood or the white plastic buckets.
Agree with your choices. I buy sodium percarbonate off eBay as its cheaper again (the price you quoted I can only dream of). The downside is that if soaking you can get a chalky deposit on bottles, which require an acid rinse to remove. I use citric acid for that because its cheaper than StarSan.
I use a restaurant surface cleaner. Very similar to starsan but with hydrogen peroxide added. (Don't use on copper). They sell it as being no rinse food safe, but I always rinse or it'll oxidize beer or wine terribly. $25 for a concentrated gallon and it lasts 2 years for me. I like not having the filmy perchlorates aka bleach based cleaners. I do use pbw on occasion for my beer system when really dirty but I prefer to use the non chlorine based cleaners.
Awesome! Do you recall the name of the cleaner?
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel it's called Viper and it's made by Diversey. It can be found at restaurant and janitorial supply stores
One thing that many, many people miss with starsan is that the manufacturer says it is only good for one hour after you mix it into a solution. The surfactants stop working fairly quickly, and that is what breaks down the lipids on the outside of bacteria and let the acids do their jobs. It is also like you said what makes it "cling" to the surface, keep the surface wet for the time needed, and also it reduces the surface tension allowing the sanitizer to wick into tiny nooks and crannies. When the surfactant stops working it will not be doing the sanitization job you think it is as the effectiveness is greatly reduced.
Whenever you need to use starsan mix it fresh, use it and discard what is left after an hour or two. Don't keep it around for all day or put it in a spray bottle thinking it will last a week or more. You also don't need to mix that much, 2 1/2 gallons is plenty to sanitize my 6 gallon fermenter and all tools needed for a brew day and if something distracts or delays me making a second batch is no big deal.
If you mix it with distilled water it lasts indefinitely
Thanks for pointing that out. As a pretty strong acid it should be relatively effective with or without the surfactants at full strength. It generally seems to "stick" to the surface well long after it has been mixed (many days) but may not be as effective at penetrating the cell walls quickly.
Wow I've been leaving mine in a gallon carboy and using it up to a year. Should do something diff I guess
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel It really isn't "a pretty strong acid" you can check this yourself by checking the PH of a diluted starsan solution. It needs the surfactant action to work properly on the microbial level.
Lastly, under the labeled directions for use, the first statement: "It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.". This is because it is considered a pest control product, so its use is strictly regulated. Nowhere does it say on the label it is intended to be mixed and used over a long term, it instructs to mix and use immediately. When Star-San themselves have been asked they have repeatedly reiterated that the product is only meant to be used within 1 hour of mixing.
You may "feel" it is still working because it appears so to you but when the manufacturer themselves say it has lost its ability to properly disinfect and sanitize maybe you should listen to them instead of your feelings.
@@davidkraiger4377 No, no it does not. The surfactant sticks to itself so it starts slowly deactivating itself once mixed into solution, the surfactant is part of what is needed for it to be an effective sanitizing solution, not just the acid.
I rinse with the water I use to make a brew with for carboys or let the starsan drip out for 20 minutes for bottles.
Basically agree. However, it is good practice to do the following: oxyclean>rinse>neutralise with citric>rinse then sanitise then rinse.
I like a quick rinse after starsan. Thanks so much for your content. Its really enjoyable and informative. Bottling about 200 bottles tonight!
Thanks for sharing!
This guy is incredible, really really informative. I'll subscribe on patreon
Thank you Peter!!!
Thanks for the info. I've recently been looking at cleaners vs sanitizers.
We use straight sodium percarbonate Granulated hydrogen peroxide we got in a huge box ... Good to know oxi clean has the same cleaning agent.
Rumor is Oxi Clean 14 is even better.
Cool, I'm right there with you - Oxy Clean and StarSan. I actually use Oxy Clean Max found at 2 of the membership big box stores. Even cheaper. Cheerz.
Awesome! My wife goes to Sam's once in a while. I'll have her on the lookout next time.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
I use oxiclean to get labels off beer bottles but it leaves a white residue. Maybe I'll try to use it with really hot water like you suggested
Just out of curiosity. I was considering making a cherry mead from pure black cherry juice and unpasteurized honey. What pH would you recommend I strive for? Merry Christmas once again, and thanks.
Awesome info!
Glad it was helpful!
Good info man!
Thanks man!
Would you use Star San on the wood press cage?
would love to ask some questions.
is there a way I can remove methernal in the wine before drinking?
or is there a tool I can measure the a mount of methernal content in my wine ?
Star San always foams up a lot. Am I doing something wrong, is the copious foam no problem or must rinse it away? I stopped using it in brewing.
The foam is pretty normal with starsan. It is loaded with surfactants and bubbles up pretty good. It may be possible that your water source is "soft" also, which would exaggerate the bubbling aspect. The beauty of starsan is that it will stick to the walls of your container and do it's job without you needing to fill it to the top. It is "no rinse" but I like to rinse at least once because I don't need surfactants throwing off the surface tension of my wine.
And you fittingly look a little bit like Billy Mays lol.
I suspected the Oxyclean would be useful. Thanks for sharing. I was wondering where you'd been. Just discovered my subscription was unsubbed!