Making a Set of Vise Jaws: Milling Seriation Teeth on the Horizontal Mill
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Making a Set of Vise Jaws:
Milling Seriation Teeth
on the Horizontal Mill
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*I like how quiet it is, how well it works and **Fastly.Cool** , This was perfect to help air out a guest room and to use instead of AC when I only want one room kept cool. Works great!*
It's a lot like working wood with hand tools. You plan well in advance what you want to do and nibble away at the material until it fits just right. Having tools sharp enough to cut a stray thought helps, too. The attention to every detail is what some would call a Zen experience.
영상잘보고갑니다 편안하고 행복한 시간되십시요.
Thanks, Keith.
I think Keith is going to wear out that horizontal mill just because he likes using it so much haha. Very nice jaw replacement!
Ty for using older tooling us young punks would never have exposure
Who the hell is Ty?
@@rockerpat1085 thank you = TY
@@permutatechguy Too Hard To Spell That Out?
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.
Thanks. Jim Bell (Australia)
For production they probably bolted them down to a fixture plate and cut the slots on a whole batch with a shaper. Multi-tooth cutters like that were not nearly as common back in the day, and are a pain in the pocketbook to buy and have sharpened. Shapers would be way cheaper, and the automatic stepover means one guy can run more machines. Vise jaws are an ideal product to mass produce on a shaper. That is probably why they picked 50 degrees instead of 45. If you cut from the long end, with 50 degrees, you angle the part less perhaps allowing more parts to be cut in one run.
Thanks, Notso! I was thinking shaper from the get go. Maybe ABOM would run off a set JFTHOI.
Neat point about the 50 degrees! When he said that, i figured he was mis-measuring a 45 degree angle!
One thing you can do on a horizontal that he didn't as well is set up multiple cutters on the same arbor. Presumably you could get 100 thou thick double angle cutters like that and just stack a bunch.
Mattys workshop made two of these very jaws on his channel couple of days ago just as you suggest. Although he did not run another machine at the same time, it is easy to see how he could have done.
I was just thinking that a shaper would be great for this application. Straight, shallow cut with a small step over, all you'd need to do is grind a custom tool.
And here I was thinking they heated them up and stamped the pattern in them :)
those came out real nice
Glad I’m not the only one that thought “I wonder if this could be done easier on a shaper! Great mind’s think alike 😉
Thanks for sharing!
Keith, sometimes you describe a job that is nearly finished as 'getting into the short rows'. With these jaws you really were!!!
that is some crazy clean cross hatch.
As Keith pointed out this a one-off job. The plainer has been restored but Keith still has to learn how to use it. But he knows his horizontal milling machine in detail.
Hiya Keith
Good for sharing video
My silly thought on speeding this up for production was that several cutters could be set up at 1 inch intervals then you cut two or three grooves per pass and then make a big jump when the back cutter would be entering the grooves from the forward cutter. Great job and please keep up the good work.
That is how I would do it also
Very fine result. Thanks for sharing.
that did turn out very good! resurected for the next 50 or so years.
Excelente trabajo
So..that's how it's done
Nice job
Nice job Keith. Looks great!
Omg that spot of rust is and would drive me crazy 🤪 I would have to get a piece of sandpaper and clean it up.... wish he would do it but I know he won't.... but if it was me I would very much so stress out till I got that off.... it's got me stressing out just looking at it now... just grab a piece of sandpaper and hold it on there while it's turning and it would simply go away and look a lot better not to mention get rid of the steel cancer before it could spread any worse.....
I did a knurl on round stock back in college, but was at a loss as to do it in a mill. Very nice. Mine wasn't that good. Was using a cloth to wipe away excess oil when it got eaten by the tool. Knurl was shallow, but it worked.
Beautiful job Keith. Thank you
they sure do look better than the originals , great job !!!!
learned a new word today.👌
Great job, when you have the right tools
nice job on the crosshatch pattern.
Great video Keith, keep'um coming...
That shot wants times two speed over “Orange Blossom Special” .
satisfying to watch, thank you
The shot beginning @ 20:30 put my OCD into overdrive! If the angles of the opposing grooves were the same, the lines formed by the intersections of the diamonds would be parallel to the ends of the bars...assuming the ends of the bars are square.
They're not even close to square, but they're just saw cut so that's hardly much of a surprise.
I'm sure he'll get to it.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Good job for a shaper
Since I'm seeing this on my phone it might have already been mentioned that it was probably faster to cut this on a shaper cutting each slot one at a time and automatically indexing the shaper 0.100"
Keith you could use two or more cutters and take less cuts. If spacing is not close enough cut dubble and skip cut
Awesome job
Thanks
Keith, Keith. I love ya brother, buy you MUST do something about the surface rust on the mandrel spacer next to the cutter--it's making me crazy! Hit it with a wire brush or some emory cloth......
looks v ery good ,thanks for sharing
strictly for visual stimulation some Dykem would have made this really cool.
That'd be a great way to make cast iron laps too!
Thanks for this peaceful video as a contrast to the European war videos flooding the Tube.
Tubalcain did show seriation not so long ago but likely he didn't use such a impressive mill.
Great video, thanks
I like that it is relatively quiet for how much air it moves. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxmj9RYGCX25BElHkuWjHec-2_muyUGyCm Was easy to put together. Note: The spindle cap is threaded backwards to keep it from spinning off during use, so remember to turn it the "other way". I also like that the lights, which are quite bright, turn off after a few moments so they do not bother me at night. The remote has to be aimed just right, but does work.
The saw marks are on the ends, but he plans to take the 1/8" off the top.
This would have been a good job for my vintage CNC Bridgeport.
This job looks custom made for the planer.
I was thinking the same thing.
I wonder if the original diamond face and rough slot were done on a rolling mill.
Thats what I was thinking. Some kind of giant knurler.
How come we never see any south bend machinery on your videos? Thanks
I’m curious to know if you could climb cut every other groove on the way back to the staring point on the left end.
Agreed, seems like that machine could handle a climb cut -- especially with such a small tool pressure. But maybe the finish would look different?
I suspect a production mode might be a 100Ton press with a hardened pattern and Pressed each in the production line. Hard to say - had to speed it up somehow.
Seriation is a method of dating in archaeology Serration is what I think you mean.
Pretty sure this is to a Morgan Chicago
If I can ask, why didn’t you put the holes in before the cross-hatching? Won’t the drill want to walk into one of the grooves when you go to drill the hole?
If you had more cutters of the same kind, you could’ve stacked a few back to back, but only if the distance between them was a multiple of the grid spacing.
Hey Keith, Could those grooves have been cut on a Metal Shaper or Planer using a .025" cut at .100" table feed???
That's just what I was thinking.
They could but a single point tool would dull quickly and not last long, especially on tool steel.
Absolutely beautiful checkering. Would the shaper have been more efficient using the auto step over feature using a cutter ground with two points?
why two points?
Do you have to run the overarm support bearing at the very end of the arbor or can you could you have put it closer to the cutter to increase the stability.
He needed it out there for clearance on the vice.
Keith, EXCELLENT EXCELLENT Job !!!!!!!!!!
After watching the vid sev times, examining the orig part as close up as possible and reading all the comments, I am of the opinion that everyone is wrong abt how it was made.....the slots are too crisp and the individual squares very square, I'm believing that the part was heated cherry red, placed in a press or hammer forge and the impressions imprinted upon the part that way.....production wise that would make a lot more sense and time wise much more cost effective.....the master die that impresses the pattern could be made simply and changed/replaced as needed....the orig steel part would have been a softer steel when stamped/impressed and then batch hardened to the desired hardness.....doing it that way, hundreds could be made in a day....just saying !!!!!!!
You're probably right.
Perfect except 'serrations'.
Surely the HMM has an auto feed for the 100 thou movements.
love the way it came out.how long did it take in real time
Too bad you don't have Aboms lonely, forgotten shaper to do this job. This is an ideal job for it.
I'm sure the original jaws were done on a shaper rather than a milling machine. It'd be so much faster.
Seriation meaning, formation, arrangement, succession, or position in a series or orderly sequence.
How does taking an 1/8" off them make them better?
It will remove the band saw cut marks.
I wonder if it would have been neat to cut slightly deeper so that the jaw could be ground after heat treating.
Who IS this 'Clarence' guy you keep referring to? And why does he need so much room? I'm confused.
Hi Keith, thanks for your videos. Do you think a shaper could have achieved that crossover pattern?
Why you are not using your planer for this job?
Nice ! But hard on the cutter with no cooling.
Curious; I found I was forever having to add vice jaw protectors to protect my jobs from being marred. My vice jaws are reversible, so I turned them round. Nice smooth faces, a year or two later I don’t miss the serrations at all. Do we really need the serration pattern ?
I know it's a "no-no" but couldn't you have cut on the backstroke, too?
Thats a nice protractor who makes that?
That looks like a wonderful old Brown and Sharpe vernier protractor that measures to 5 minutes of arc. There’s one in the Smithsonian Institution’s online image collection. That rectangular frame is great and holds the setting as well.
Would have been a good place for a shaper .025 DOC and a .100 step over would have been done quick
Congratulations Mr Rucker, something that's actually as boring as watching paint dry
Why do you watch? If this is bothering you to the point you need to bitch about it, go away!
The shaper would have done this job very easy
The dial indicators r more accurate anyway... I'm sure that anybody that has a machine knows how much to move it accurately... but seems easier with dial indicator around....
Is there any concern of shrinkage in the back channel after hardening?
Keith says that the serrations are 25 thou deep and 100 thou apart but does not say or show how he measured these dimensions; anyone know how this is done...it would have been nice to see that part as I don't think this has been shown before?
He had a dial gauge(in the previous video, " Machining a Set of Vise Jaws 18:34) with magnetic base that he set on the side of the arbour support bars, measuring down to the top of the vise, touch to surface then adjust for 25 thou DOC and he was also using a dial gauge for the 100 thou spacing on the cross slide
Don't return and say thanks or anything.
I would have done it at 45 degrees instead of 50, seems to be an oddball angle for no good purpose. but that is my OCD talking i guess...
My sense is it's best not to have them at an angle that might be very common when holding a piece - they might slip a bit.
@@kindabluejazz I kinda get that, but 5 degrees is close enough to force a slip I'd suggest.
How (with what) did you measure the depth of the incisions?
He had a dial gauge(in the previous video, " Machining a Set of Vise Jaws 18:34) with magnetic base that he set on the side of the arbour support bars, measuring down to the top of the vise, touch to surface then adjust for 25 thou DOC
Kinda wondering if you could use multiple cutters to get a bit more speed at the cost of a more fiddly setup.
I guess if you had a couple more cutters and appropriate spacers and did the math. Would be an interesting math problem.
@@The_DuMont_Network Multiple cutters .200 thick with one step over would cut all the serrations in two passes each way
@@ellieprice363 I'm reminded of Alton Brown an his disdain for unitaskers. Unless was tooling up to make vise jaws in quantity, I don't think I would want to invest in a bunch of cutters I would use only occasionally
@@ellieprice363 Sure. But who stocks that many cutters to use once in a blood moon?
Doc Dumonnt: Sorry I didn’t make that clear. Multiple cutters ground to .200 would only be practical for manufacturing thousands of vise jaws for production. They could also use .300 thick cutters and step over twice. They’d probably use a special fixture to position the jaws twice at the proper angle.
Just curious: what causes the periodic "clank" when the Marvel saw is engaged (5:00)?
I'd bet on the welded spot in the saw band
metal to metal......
Hey Keith, I've got a model k universal ser# 44-5000, I need to find the horizontal attachments for my k&t, if anyone has or no were I'd really appreciate the information.
Seriations or Serrations?
Check the meanings of the two. I'd go with seriation.
@@MrPossumeyes Neither one is very fitting, you have to stretch both definitions to see what you want to see. Interesting. Thanks for your response.
Nice work! Another way to do it. Thanks for the look.
I’m not sure if the cutter would like that hard steel but in terms of procedure, this looks like a job for the shaper. With automatic step-over, this tedious task would go without all the manual input for each pass. Just my amateur observation, I’ve never run any machine tools. 🥸👍
Seriation ??
If I can ask, why didn’t you put the holes in before the cross-hatching? Won’t the drill want to walk into one of the grooves when you go to drill the hole?