Who Are The Black Dutch? | Ancestral Findings Podcast
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- AF-008: Who Are The Black Dutch?
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The term "Black Dutch" is not widely recognized or used in a specific sense. It is a term that has been used to describe individuals or families in the United States who have dark hair and olive skin, but do not fit into a specific racial or ethnic category. The origin of the term is unclear, and it has been associated with various theories and explanations.
Some theories suggest that the term "Black Dutch" may have originated from the presence of dark-skinned individuals in families of Dutch descent, possibly due to intermarriage with Native Americans or African Americans. Others believe it may have been used to describe individuals of mixed European and African ancestry who were part of Dutch settlements in the United States.
It is important to note that the term "Black Dutch" is not recognized as an ethnic or racial group, and it is not widely used or acknowledged outside of certain regions or communities in the United States.
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My grand mother told my mother we were Black Dutch. We are Texans. My gtgtgtgdmother was Cherokee from NC, but came to Texas before The Trail Of Trears. We belonged to the Lumbee Nation but not on Roll so our research finding was this.
When John Watts brought Native Americans from Ok. to TX to settle in Trinity they were murdered by the people who lived there. Some Indians escaped and went to LA. They had a code name they used to keep from being murdered if someone said they were Indian. They would say, "I am Black Dutch". This was shared to me by an Native American.
I’m from East Texas, and my Grandmother never really spoke of her heritage so finally one day I asked and she said all she knew was that she had Black Dutch. I never questioned her further, but I wish I had!
I’m from Ok and my Grandmother always said that I was Black Dutch but I never had an explanation of what that meant. We too are native but no roll and I never understood that either. Now that I’m older, I love learning about my heritage!
I think you are referring to the expulsion of the Cherokee and their allies from their Spanish land grant on the Neches River near Tyler in 1839, due to President Mirabeau Lamar's promise to rid Texas of Houston's "pet Indians". That group had been brought in from Arkansas 1817-1819, along with bands from about a dozen other tribes. Chief Bowles (Diwali) was killed in that battle; most of the survivors dispersed, but about 200, plus bands from other southeastern tribes, fled to the Comanche frontier. Those refugees on the frontier numbered about 20,000.
Colonel Edward Burleson's troops found those Cherokee at an abandoned Comanche encampment; the leaders, John Bowles and the Egg, died in the ensuing battle. The survivors, and their allies from the Louisiana Choctaw, lived in Bastrop County for a while at some point, but in 1844 that Cherokee band was near Waco at a trading post partly owned by Sam Houston. Their presence is cited in the 1850 Rollins Comanche Treaty, but the only one mentioned by name is the interpreter, Jesse Chisolm.
Most East Texas Cherokee won't be on the Dawes Commission rolls. One possible exception is James D. Mulkey, the original Cherokee Texas Ranger. He served in 1859, as did another Ranger named Little Mule. This Cherokee band is also mentioned in Sam Houston's historical writings; as they served him on diplomatic missions to the Plains tribes.
Please be aware that any historical references to Cherokee on the frontier need scrutiny. Both Indians and settlers used that term to generically refer to anyone from those refugee bands, so look for who and how the identification was made.
Sidenote: The term Black Dutch became a popular term because
historically, the Netherlands was a hub for intercultural people since
early history. Moors and religious or political refugees from different
parts of the world (Al Andalus, East Europe, Africa, etc. and later also
even more remotely Oceania) would live as free citizens in the
Netherlands, this was during early medieval times, but even went through
the slavery period - the Netherlands, as opposed to most European
countries in history - chose to have freedom of religion for the most
ever since its founding days. where then even new black Dutch would come
from slaveships who ported in Dutch harbors where slavery was illegal -
thus the slaves were given citizenship upon arrival and slavers had to
give up the paperwork. During the reconquista of Spain on Andalus - many
Moors and Sephardic Jews who are also of darker complexion due to their
African and mid-Eastern roots - would seek asylum in the Netherlands.
Thus when the New World was being opened up to Europe - many Dutch -
including black / mixed Dutch folk would go on the trip. Later this term
would be used in America for any person with a swarthy complexion due
to this complexion at that time being mostly a Dutch phenomenon where
most countries looked down upon blacks and whites starting families. So
the term Dutch lost its meaning because later 'black Dutch' was used to
designate almost anybody of darker complexion who wasnt strictly
African, but the origin is kept in its root - Black Dutch were since
medieval times a rather accepted phenomenon to encounter when visiting
the Netherlands. So if you have Black Dutch in your genealogy - wear it
as a badge of progression - that your ancestors, even if they might not
have been actual Black Dutchmen/women - were part of the people who
believed, lived and fought for progression in times where racial
backwardness reigned supreme.
Oh wow! Thank you for this teaching Lessing I learned a lot, just from reading your post. Now I will research on my my own. Thank you for the light. Peace to you.
The Moors Created Al Mahkoum Elf (Amsterdam) and the rest of Hol(y)land . Later Hostile Germanic Tribes came from the East and the Moors travelled to the Americas because of this( there whas NO slavery) They created several Cities there Ari Zona( Zone of the Lions) Caliph Ouna( Our State) California.
The Hostile Germanic Tribes then went after them to steal their Land and enslaved them, just like in Africa, Asia, Australia and the Americas
No, it's black Deutsch as in GERMAN. So many dumb people...
I am black Dutch and have had my DNA tested. 100% European. 74% England, Wales,Western Europe- Netherlands,Germany
24% Ireland/Scotland and 2% France. Yet I have always looked very Spanish in features and complexion. I guess the explanation of these Spanish sailors who went to the Netherlands could explain things I suppose.
My mother said we were black Dutch but the Dutch in my family are all blond.
I was with a Dutch woman for decades. Visited her family regularly. Stayed there for years. Never heard of this before. I bet it's just Jews tbh. Almost always is when you find swarthiness in European stock. To non whites getting your hands on a white woman is the ultimate status symbol. Explaining your kids three generations on without sounding like a racist and sexist for objectifying women becomes difficult.
My mother's great grandfather was known to be "Black Dutch". Thanks to DNA kits from several relatives, we know the Black Dutch term was code for black African (Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ghana) and English/Scottish/Irish descent.
I'm Scottish, Irish, Cherokee and Black Dutch so I guess I'll get a DNA test kit to see exactly what is in my Black Dutch.
Most folks claiming Native American heritage cannot find any ancestral links to native tribes. Its all hearsay handed down. Ask any enumerator for the Census and they’ll tell you “everyone” says they have Native Indian heritage. Its not true. Many did, but not remotely as common as people claim.
I think there is literally an FAQ on on 23andMe that say "Where is my Native American?" 😅😂
My mom was born in leeuwarden and came to America when she was like 5 and my biological father is Black his grandparents both had native American. And yes I have brown skin curly hair and grey blue eyes
Yup that’s definitely a Dutch trait , blue or light eyes !
I have 2 forms of black dutch on my mothers side, my great great great grandfather was of the german variety and was a mixed race hebrew named Zebulon. Then being born in western north Carolina i also have my great great grandmother was a Cherokee who had to claim she was black dutch to escape persecution.
But more crazy still they married all of there kids off to white people and just a few generations later you end up with an odd skin complexity white dude name Joshua (me).
For those who have Appalachian heritage as I do my great great grandmother was black dutch her last name was Briggs which is common in the mulegeon communities.i too have dark hair dark brown eyes with green mixed.
Do you mean you have green mixed with your brown eyes?? I have almost yellow amber eyes mixed with green, but they change with what I wear or my surroundings. When I cry they turn as green as grass. My late Mawmaw told me before she passed she only knew that they had Black Dutch heritage. I’ve always wondered. A lot of my Father’s ancestors migrated from Tennessee to Texas.
I’m from East Texas and I always wondered about my Mother’s side of the family..a few of us were olive to very tan skinned, black curly hair, and dark eyed..well not me..mine are more of an amber/green/hazel color depending on my surroundings, or if I cry they turn green as grass, but my Mawmaw never spoke of her heritage. Finally, I asked her one day a few years before she passed and she said she was told they were Black Dutch and Black Irish, as well. I wish I had gotten her DNA tested before she passed.
That's very interesting!
Some "Black Dutch" come from a Romani background.
I was told that my Cherokee ancestors escaped the trail of tears by telling peoplr they were black Dutch, they had large land holdings.
not uncommon.
I learned this fact from my boss today. But I wonder why black dutch. Does this group have special rights? Harder to detect if not?
Same!
And probably owned slaves
@@aynatmirg name a race or ethnicity that's has never owned slaves.....I'll wait
The native Indonesian people in the former colony called the Dutch East Indies now Indonesia, referred to black soldiers in the colonial army as black dutchmen.
Since it was very hard to recruit white soldiers in Europe to go to the colonies, the recruiters were looking for a source of manpower, and they found a source on Africa's west coast the major supply point for the slave trade. The story goes, that the recruiters would purchase strong and healthy males who were willing to be trained as soldiers. The volunteers would then be given a Dutch name and a contract for a number of years as a soldier in the colonial army. At the end of the contract, they would be free men with a pension for their service and had the option of returning to their country in Africa or settling and remaining in the colony. There were also recruits that originated from Surinam a former Dutch colony that became independent in 1975.
Can the term "black dutch" also be used as a synonym for melungeon?
CJMendoza804 yes i believe so
@Pinkin Lark good to know 😊
Sometimes
Yes it Can
absolutely most definitely yes. however, not exclusively.
I have done a lot of research and time spent reading my family history genealogy and we are real black Dutch with 2% black and a large amount of DNA matching Western European 96% and 2% black also British mixed in with it mostly Dutch and German into Holland from family documentation around the year 1100 and my family at the time was invaded by the Saxons (UK) but stayed in Holland till 1799 when my 6th generations Grandfather sets sailing from the coast of UK when they made land fall in Delaware my grandfather was Nathaniel Shapp he was very dark complexion with black hair brown eyes and settled in Kentucky and Virginia and then moved to South East Texas in 1802 settling down in a Dutch and German mix town that was created by them and grew into Shelbyville tx 1822 that point on it became a German and Dutch settlement for the area a lot of people are very dark in complexion so there are a good amount of black Dutch that did move on to Texas for sure from Kentucky in the first part of the 1800s
Me too
Yep! whereas in other places it was taboo - it was a common sight to see people in the Netherlands from black to white complexions. The country was a hub for settlers from all over the world - as for political and religious refugees. So in comparison to other nations - it was relatively normal for Dutch to have mixed families with Moors and other darkskinned ethnic groups who lived there as Dutch citizens since medieval times. Talk about historically progressive right?
Shelbyville is located more East than South Texas..unless there are two or more Shelbyville’s in Texas..the one I speak of is very close to the East Texas/Louisiana state line. Ever heard of the town New Zulch? My great great great great grandfather was a German man who settled in the area and paid and sent for his family, and later on, any Germans wanting to come to New Zulch and work the farms..his name was Dr. Julius Zulch. I saw his picture after doing some research and ironically he looks so much like my Dad it’s kind of freaky!! Pic was in black and white but my Dad is very tan with dark curly hair and almost see through, glowing blueish-turquoise-yellow eyes… I sent it to my Dad and he couldn’t believe the resemblance either. I’ve always wondered where my black, curly hair and olive skin completion could’ve come from, maybe one day I’ll find out more details.
My grandfather was black dutch. My dna shows Greek Italian. His sir name was Stout. I assume he was the product of German and Italian.
There's another black Dutch that is not American. All the generational Dutch citizens in the Caribbean.
Does the term Black Irish come from Spanish sailors who were shipwrecked from the historic Spanish Armada ? Another type of Black Irishman in America was President O'Bama who was 1/2 Irish.
wow I didn't know this subject my grandfather was black Dutch he was very dark my mom's was somewhat dark my dad was german I just a littel oliv complextion
I was told I have Irish, German, black Dutch, Portuguese and Native American. Black dutch was very evident in my maternal grandmother and some of her children..not all. On the Paternal side, we have a book which says we came straight from Wales in the 1600s and those people were Quakers.
I was told I was Irish and black dutch on my dads side. My granddad s nickname was dutch.
In iowa black Dutch are just the leather skinned dark haired dutch/germans.
@@Leejahstar I mean it might be wrong but that's the general consensus
yeah so they probably have melanated genes in their ancestry since the Netherlands was already a multicultural country even when the rest of Europe was actively against intermarriage between Moors and Christians.
I'm Black Dutch! I remember not being able to find out about it in 2013. Thank you!
There’s a Texan-German dialect that is still spoken in German-American towns located in Texas.
Guess I'm getting a DNA test I am German Norwegian Cherokee and Black Dutch
Black-Dutch can also mean Sinti...In the United States the old "Black-Dutch/Sinti" often blended in to British Romanichal families...
I'm black dutch, for me meaning Spanish, Germanic, Ashkenazi , and Chippewa/Ojibwe. I wish there was a preservation society for black dutch family histories
Part of my family is from Pennsylvania...they call it Schwartze Deutsch. Black German. We have native ancestry...dark features.
Is that the same as Pennsylvania Dutch?
@wilda bezet It could be. I think you can be Pennsylvania Deutsch without being Schwartz Deutsch, but I'm not sure. I've been researching "Black Dutch" for that reason. Though my family's story has to do with a mix of PA Deutsch and Haudenosaunsee (Iroquois) heritage.
From my Dad's side, his mom had black Dutch, and black Irish. Italian, Seminole Indian. His Dad had Irish with red and blond hair. Cherokee.
My grandma said we are black Dutch. She said that they had blacks heads and white bodies. Is that a thing?
David MacD ah ok
I don’t think think so. I think your grandma had a sense of humor.😄
Yeah its a joke - and it even sounds like a Black Pete reference or maybe coalminers?
I’ve heard of people they call the Black Irish that were some explained to appear very dark complected but when areas where the sunlight didn’t touch…they were white (severe tan lines). But, it’s probably just some folklore but I have heard it, and that the first people of Ireland were hunters and gatherers with a dark complexion considered black. But, who knows what’s right and what’s not?
Sounds like the black Irish term.
Before my Mawmaw passed I finally asked her about her heritage..she quietly told me all she knew was they were Black Dutch and Black Irish…her father abandoned her Mother and brother and sister but his family took my Mawmaw’s Mother in and she was closer to them than he was. But I’ve always wanted to know what those terms mean!
Is the narrator Chef John’s brother?
LMAO I THOUGHT THE SAME
Waylon Jennings is one🤠
Thank you for this explainer. 🌈💜🏳️⚧️🥚🙏🏽
I was looking up Indian tribes who spoke Hebrew and the name "Svart Duets" but in parentheses is said or black. So I was looking at the article a little more and it did say something about these people were Heroes to the Netherlands. But anyways.. I always thought back in the day when they labeled you as black was because you was black.
you might have been half, you might been whole but have you had dark to brown skin and looked like African descent you was considered black..
There were no Native Americans that spoke Hebrew though.
I believe that this label is a Voting suppression term during the Colonial days, Black Dutch , Black German , Black Irish couldn't vote and also tells when your ancestors came here.
I have Black Dutch and they came here from Finland during the Colonial days in Pennsylvania. After the Colonial Wars Voter Suppression was a real heavy and took advantage of non English speaking people like the Dutch, German and Irish.
It's a term Only used in America.
@@HumanBeing1974 It had nothing to do with people of African descent, right?
@@warpnin3 That's correct.
@@HumanBeing1974 but look at how historically the word "Black" in and of itself have been used to undermine people. Its really crazy.
My grandmother was black dutch,
Rappers from South Philly
The Moors Created Al Mahkoum Elf (Amsterdam) and the rest of Hol(y)land . Later Hostile Germanic Tribes came from the East and the Moors travelled to the Americas because of this( there whas NO slavery) They created several Cities there Ari Zona( Zone of the Lions) Caliph Ouna( Our State) California.
The Hostile Germanic Tribes then went after them to steal their Land and enslaved them, just like in Africa, Asia, Australia and the Americas
my family has black dutch🤔
My grandpa always said we was black Dutch
Same my grandpa always said that too, butler hall and William Campbell
Spain was black not too long ago😉 This is just "His"tory
Blackfoot and German
This is nonsense. Sephardic did not mix with black slaves. Where is the proof of this idiocy. The black Dutch are a mixture of German-Dutch and blacks
Well you might not like the answer - but back when Spain was still a Moorish state called Andalus, Sephardims and Moors lived together with the Visigoths and other European people groups - even during those 800 years - they got jiggy with one another. So it already happened en masse before the colonisation of America.
When you stay Africans in America,do you mean the free indigenous Americans or the the captured indigenous Americans who were called Africans?
What the hell are you talking about?
Jacob Reedy No he’s crazy.
Jacob Reedy Well to believe something that is not even close to the truth and in the face of every single piece of evidence is craziness.
Bro , stop believing these black UA-cam scholars with their conspiracy theories.. black are natives from Africa . Yes it is true that there are black people in Native indian tribes, but that was because they were adapted in there, and they still had to work for the Indians .
@Yorkie Newman the guy is claiming African Americans are basically the original inhabitants of America like how the natives Indians are . It’s a false story many black UA-camrs spread around , I don’t know why , probably to uplift the black community and i understand that but it’s not true at all .
Double speaking. Purposefully.
I was enlightened by the honorable professor Ra Lao Moishe Spartacus Ububi that the REAL, obfuscated meaning of "black Dutch" is just that! The melaninated Kings who founded the Netherlands, which was then STOLEN from them. Just like the black Irish founded Ireland. Furthermore, the honorable professor Ububi has proven by the concrete, concise, insurmountable, irrefutable FACTS of forbidden archeology, that all of the land that later would become "Europe" was founded by this line of lineage of black noblemen, from the motherland.
DNA would either support this or refute this. Where is the DNA evidence to support this?
Pack of lies
Sorry but you don't get to decide what I am and what I'm not. My grandfather, many of his siblings, their mother and grandmother was as dark skinned as latinos but were from a European family with Dutch ancestry. There are indications that their ancestors were black Dutch. Basically, minorities want to claim to be a mixture of anything and everything, but as soon as a "white person" claims to be part anything else people like you call us racist, regardless of DNA evidence or anything else.
Most of this is BS ... He never mentioned the Colonial Wars and Voter Suppression and that is how the term came from.
@@HumanBeing1974 tell more!
@@13579hee If you remember before the Civil War you had to be listed as white that owned property in order to vote....so Black Dutch couldn't vote.
@@HumanBeing1974 you got literature or records on that phenomenon? Were black Dutch grouped in the same groups as Sicillian Italians during that time? Black Dutch originated from the fact that mainly white european settlers encountered alot of Dutch with darker complexion. This was because the Dutch historically had more multicultural society due to freedom of religion and citizenship. Which meant that from the days before the Crusades - Moors, Jews and Christians in the Netherlands started families al throughout history and seeing mixed race children was a sight that was not always uncommon in contrary to other European countries.
O shit i'm probably a jew, makes sense. Well off to self hate, you can't call me a antisemite anymore haha.
lmao
You lying the Sephardic Jews were black from Spain kicked out of spain because they were rich n black n had connections all over the known world