I Fixed The Major Problem With All Software Synths
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- I've invented a new way to control software synthesizers and VST plugins. In this video I will pitch the concept to you, and explain how it could revolutionize the way we use USB MIDI keyboard controllers when playing synths, using effects and making music in our DAW.
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This is actually a feature in Studio One, named "Mouse Over". It does exactly what you describe here.
Novation’s Nocturn did this with its “Speed Knob”. That came out almost 15 years ago.
But it used a scroll wheel emulation with really bad resolution so it sucked
it was called the Speed Dial and it was on the SL keyboards too... I remember using it quite a lot
Yes I miss that so much. Automap is old, I just wish we could do this with any controller.
Great pitch! I'm a developer and I did a 5min quick proof of concept of this idea, it works! Positioning the mouse and sending scroll events (and / or mouse drag events) triggered by a normal midi controller. And all can be done in a simple python script. I'm very excited to give this a try
you're the man, respect!
Cubase 12's new MIDI Remote Manager lets you do this with any controller. You can assign a control to "Value at Mouse Pointer" and the controller you've assigned will change the value. I've just tried it with a Novation Impulse 61 and some plugins and it works quite well mostly. This might be down to the plugin maker though as to if it works or not because the Triton VST doesn't respond to it but other plugins do.
Wow! Gonna try that with Cubase 12 (Which I also own) and the Behringer FCB10101 foot controller, which has two expression pedals among other things. Just assign the pedals to the knobs/sliders and then you have one hand free to play on the keyboard and then use the mouse with the other hand and turn the knob/slider with the foot!
That sound really great. Maybe You could try to make some video tutorial how it works and how to set up to work like that? That would be very helpfull.
Not sure why hover activation is already a thing. I always wondered why it wasn't. Glad you are pitching the idea.
You can already accomplish this with Audient iD series audio interfaces. Press the iD button on the front and you can use the wonderful giant clicky encoder knob becomes a scroll wheel to adjust anything assuming the plugin works like you are describing. Just hover the cursor, then spin the knob. Most of my plugins work, but it doesn't work with any of the arturia plugins. People have been asking for the hover and scroll functionality from them for a while.
We can also use the steering wheel of a car as a midi controller, or even better a ship's steering wheel in order to get a high resolution of changing parameters
For my preferred DAW (FL Studio), there's an Android/iOS app (IL Remote), that allows you to set up custom MIDI controls. You can then setup a generic page of controls for things like transport controls, channel select, tempo etc. as well as VST specific ones where you can add virtual knobs/faders that match the layout of the VST in question. It's not ideal, but it's a good compromise between hands-on control and flexibility. Pretty similar to your touch-screen point!
Interesting commentary Woody. Love your enthusiasm for synths. The world has now arrived for us to go anywhere we want without too much outlay in synths. The choice is overwhelming. I agree with your thoughts concerning the difficulty of computer synths.
Nice idea, the “control on hover” functionality part anyway - not sure a single external box with one fader and one knob is any benefit through. For me, if you’ve had to move the mouse there and your hand is on it anyway, just use the scroll wheel while your hand is on it. Or, build a “CC Mouse” that somehow has a knob and slider built into it.
Cubases CC121 controller does this -- its a motorised fader and works very well
A solution that would not actually require any support from the software makers, is a device that upon activation sends out mouse left button hold, and then send mouse up/mouse down, upon turning the knob, or riding the fader.
There should be a switch to make it go left/right instead for the controls that require that. And there could be modes for scroll-wheel data.
If you are willing skip the fader, it could actually be part of a special computer mouse that de-activates the typical tracking, upon activation of this feature, so any accidental movement of the mouse would not be sent. One possible design, could be putting a switch to active the mode where the scroll-wheel would be, and have a knob on the left, next to a thumb rest, and use thumb and index finger to turn the knob. (that same knob could be set to send scroll data in normal operation).
Such a device will let your hand rest on the mouse, while turning the knob. And because of the position, and the way the knob is controlled, it would be operatable, without any major issues of the mouse moving around (something that would be an issue if the design would have the knob on top, so such a solution, would most likely also need some kind of physical breaks).
You will have to move the mouse back when de-activating (after the button i de-activated the control will not move anymore but your pointer will be where you had moved it to).
This could be an alternative control-mouse, to complete another mouse or a trackball, with this special function, so it would not have to bee your mouse of choice for all applications, meaning that it doesn't have to be the perfect mouse, with a buttons with shortcuts for those that want, and it would not have to compete with a trackball when that is the preferred choice.
A more complex version could have the processing and a small flash memory that will store the movement, and upon de-activation it would release the button, and move the mouse back, by sending the reverse movement message of the mouse movement, to return it to the initial position.
But if someone would be willing to build the more complex version, they could in theory build a platform for that, that could be used for a stand alone controller, or to be built in to a midi controller.
But then one would have to move the hand back and forward to the mouse all the time, to move to the next controller.
The solution with the least amount of drawbacks, and that would be quite simple to build;
A design of a box that has two knobs, one that sends up down, one that sends left right + a button for activating the left hold message, and the processing and flash to handle the return to initial position, so when de-activating the mouse hold for parameter control, one would be able to use the knobs to move the pointer, in a simplified way, slower than a typical mouse movement, but depending on the layout of the software, perhaps not even that much slower for just getting to the next parameter. (Old mouse with balls, worked similar to that, in that they had wheels inside turning, one left/right, and one up/down, so the functionality on an electronics level would be somewhat similar to an old mouse, one could possibly even modify a scrapped ball mouse to build parts of the device, not the return value feature but, but the up/down, left/right, and mouse hold, with just some added components).
Because it has two knobs, there is no need for a up/down and left/right switch, one would grab the right knob for the type of parameter.
One could even add a third knob that sends scroll data.
This box could also have a fader. But faders, are problematic in that one would have to move it to a fitting location for the parameter one is about to control. A motorized fader would not help a lot in this case as it would not know the setting of the parameter. A motorized or sprung fader that returns to the middle position, would at least always offer some fader-movement accessible for the user. It would introduce a lot of complexity, in how the system should only listen to fader-movement data when desired, and for a spring design, one would have to deactivate the mouse hold before letting go.
Because of these issues I would leave that out.
Getting all makers to build a hover over function, or requiring the DAW makers to build this feature in, is a pretty big ask.
Building something along the lines I suggest above, could easily be achieved by a kickstarter campaign. It doesn't require a whole lot of knowledge. I know nothing about programming, and pretty much nothing about electronics, but I'm certain, that even I would be able to figure out how to build something like that. It uses standard mouse movement data, and it uses a simple design for converting knob electric signals to data, like midi controllers does, or I guess and old mouse, so the parts should be available typically, perhaps not at this very moment. For mouse design, the 3D CAD design I would need help with, and 3d Printing. But for a separate controllers, it would just be about building a box out of some material, and putting a board inside it (I think they are called breadboard or something, the ones that are used for testing or simple builds, so they aren't circuit board that require manufacturing). I'm bad at math, and don't know programming, but even the programming of a system that records mouse movement and sends a reverse message, shouldn't be that difficult, after understanding the sending of mouse movement in the first place.
If you have the energy, time, and the small amount of money (actually small amount, probably less than 100 Euros, probably less than 1000SEK incl. sales tax) that would be required to build a working prototype, you would be able to do it, I am sure.
The hover knob, I'm not sure there are any ways to achieve, since the midi 2.0 specs are basically settled on, and that would have been your best bet, and it doesn't have to do with typical midi tasks, since it involves a layer of computer operation.
Convincing the major DAW makers, could have been possible, if not all of them had a list of years old feature requests that users and potential users have asked for almost countless times.
Convincing enough software makers, would be next to impossible.
So you would only really have one other option to building something like I suggest and that is, if possible, build it in to a plugin--host. There are some plug-in hosts out there, so it might be possible to convince one of the makers, or a couple of them, rather than building your own from scratch, but if possible it might require a lot of added code to their host softwares, still, if the feature becomes widely appreciated the other makers would probably implement it as well.
But then you will be stuck in a situation where you would have to rely on a host software, and a lot of music makers tend to want to stay away from them, as they do use some resources, and one would need them on every track, so the typical command for making a new track would not work (but in many cases, templates and key commands could be used to have a way of doing it, that doesn't require manually adding a plugin host to each track).
Edit:
Building it by yourself would probably require to use of arduino, or raspberry pi plattform, which are both overly powerful for such basic tasks, building it at scale, one would be able to use better suited processing units, so a store-shelf product, could be produced much cheaper, not only by the scale, but by the choice of components in particular the processing unit. And a company like Behringer would probably be able to sell a product like that for less that 50 Euros including sales tax, perhaps even less than 40.
Hover control sounds good but it requires your dominant hand to move the mouse and your other hand to adjust the knob, leaving you without a free hand to actually play the keyboard.
I don't mind using MIDI Learn if I make temporary sticky labels for the knobs/faders. I don't recall Logic Pro ever forgetting learned assignments after reloading a project, though that might be caused by bugs in a particular plugin.
I was trying figure that out also you still have to move the mouse
The Mac has a built-in setting to allow 3-finger drag (on a trackpad) that's even faster than this because there's no assignment required, and no clicking. Hover over a virtual knob and drag 3 fingers. That's it! It's wonderful.
Check out the NOB controller. It can adjust any type of parameter on the screen (hoovering over it with the mouse) with a precise and versatile knob.
I have a better idea : using our voice to choose a parameter like filter, cutoff, etc. and then moving the knobs and sliders. So no more mouse movements, only voice control over all parameters in the vst. Future will tell.
Woody, I believe I have the solution to this problem. Its a piece of software called Bome Midi Translator Pro. I got it bundled with the Bomebox, a really nice device to translating/modifying midi signals between devices. But you can buy and use the software on its own, which I do more than I use the bomebox. Its a robust and flexible way of modifying midi signals in all sorts of ways. And it can handle computer keystrokes and mouse movements to. I've just had a go and took 15 minutes to write a program that does exactly what you want - I hover over any synth control and can modify it with my choice of twiddly knob or slider. Excellent idea, I shall add it to my existing midi projects. Feel free to get in touch if you want to discuss further.
Nice idea. But it requires that you use two hands. If I turn a knob I want to hear what it does, so that would take that you move your hand between the mouse and keyboard while the other hand is on the hardware knob. That can lead to a lot of moving with your mouse-hand if you want to change several parameters back and forth to get the right sound. (Let’s say filter frequency and resonance or adsr.) And then we’re back to where we started. 😊
I use a Logitech rollercontroller. The thumb controls the cursor and the arm does not need to move. Right click. Manipulate the graphic. Cc data is shifted. All with one hand. Also like the Nektar Panorama P1 control surface. Encoders, buttons, sliders, traction control all assignable and mine is attuned to my DAW Cubase. Color screen labels the parameters of the var you are using. Easy to customize. Popular vsts like UHe DIVA, Serum have access to already set up for all parameters. Easy to set up a vst for custom control.
I couldn’t agree more with the premise of this topic! Muscle memory is a real thing and as musicians we don’t want to think twice about our instruments in the long run. FWIW, my current hope is that the MPC key 61 - which has a big knob by the way - will give me the mapping and muscle memory with a few of the better plug ins they have, such as the Mini D and the OPX4.
MPC Key 61 also has a big slide touch that can serve as a fader control, but I haven’t really worked with it much.
I'm a Cubase user and I have the (recently discontinued) CC121 controller from Steinberg. Is has the knob you're talking about! It works with all Steinberg plugins but also with some 3rd party plugins, like Dune, Toontrack stuff, Omnisphere, PG-8X, TAL U-NO-LX, FM8, Massive and possibly many others. Unfortunately not all. But I do hear you Woody! One Knob to rule them all!
The main problem however is: there is no standard midi message for requesting a CC value from the synthesizer. So you still have the problem if you are activating a specific control value in the synth via the mouse, the knob (or fader) has no way of getting at the actual value. Which means: you activate the control and by turning the knob you "destroy" the current value (cause it is very unlikely that the physical position of the knob corresponds with the actual CC-value just activated). This is not a big problem if you need to completely reconfigure that control value but it is a problem if you activate a control value to make fine adjustments. Eg. fine tuning an ADSR and having to constantly reassigning the single knob to Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release would end up in a nightmare you wouldn't want to use.
(Actually a midi message: increment (decrement) value would be of great help also. But sadly there is none)
I tried this by writing a frontend to fluidsynth and noticed there is no way to do it other then the frontend GUI keeping track of all the individual values and what to do with them when the knob turns. Of course this is possible if I program my own frontend GUI, but there is no way to do it in an already existing frontend which is unchangeable to you. The knob alone will not be able to do it.
This is why keyboards usually have a number of knobs which can either be assigned on the keyboard itself to some CC-channels or can be assigner in the DAW to some functionality.
This is with MIDI 1.0. However I don't know if MIDI 2.0 will fix that issue. (First MIDI 2.0 implementations hitting the market just now in 2022)
That's actually pretty cool. I'd certainly go for something like that.
Absolutely brilliant. No more needs to be said.
Steinberg did something similar with AI knob which is included in some of their controllers and audio interfaces, but a universal solution could be nice
interesting, i did not know that, obviously! but yeah, all vendors would need to implement the "hover-to-activate-control" feature.
The Novation Nocturn did exactly this.
The AI knob function can be performed by any MIDI Controller in Cubase 12.
I was trying to remember who made this just the other day! Was actually thinking exactly the same thing - I want just one good quality knob and maybe transport and a slider...
This can be done Right Now, and I have half a mind to make a video to show an implementation. Basically, you can make a macropad with QMK or Circuit Python with a rotary encoder. You program a clockwise rotation to send the commands: Left mouse button down, Y-axis +1
Counter clockwise will send: Left mouse button down, Y-axis -1
I will need to try it out but I already have a macropad connected that I can test this out on.
Steinberg's AI knob... the CC121 has it as well as the now discontinued CMC series. The new midi mapping in Cubase will actually let you do it now with any controller. You have an AI knob which adjusts under the mouse wheel and a lock key to lock the value so you can move the mouse without loosing control. It's a nice idea but in practice (I've used both the CC and generic options) it was usually quicker to just use the mouse. Only the rare occasion where I wanted to record certain automation data live that I ever used it.
Sure, I have cubase and it's hard to do timed effect sends with a mouse -- the controller becomes vital
sounds like a great idea, but it will only work if this feature is programmed into every soft synth. It can be done, there are controls for those type of actions. in fact there is a control output for mouse-over, mouse click-down, mouse click-up and so on. the problem is that giving the focus to anything under the mouse can cause some other actions to give errors, and those errors have to be accounted for. but still its a great idea!
I sort of do this now with an Apple Trackpad. I have "three-finger drag" turned on. I just move the mouse cursor over the control with one finger, then slide three fingers up or down to move the control. Feels like moving a little invisible fader in a way. it's still nowhere near as satisfying at turning knobs on a hardware synth, but it's a step up from mouse clicking and dragging. The thing I don't like about the Hover idea is it requires two hands, whereas, the trackpad only requires one. All that said, I'm down for any innovative idea to help software synths be used more easily. I only have two hardware keyboard/synths, and tons of software synths. In many cases I prefer the sounds on my software synths, but I still use the hardware way more because of the better real world connection with them.
So like Nob Control? that thing is amazing.
Elephant allows you to do this with the Surface Dial. They were also talking about supporting the Logitech Craft keyboard.
Both the Ableton Push and the SL MK3 map the last tweaked parameter to the first encoder, allowing you to get this functionality after clicking the parameter you want.
I think I would prefer one hand operation, and select the software control by pressing left/right/up/down buttons before adjusting the value with the Big Knob. For this to work really well, the software controls would have to be arranged reasonably linearly, e.g. virtual knobs arranged in a circle would be a bit of a nightmare with this method. (Apologies if this has been suggested already.)
Very innovative ideas. However, this technology already exists in the new touchscreen based Akai MPCs. In an MPC plugin GUI displayed on the integrated touchscreen, you can simply touch a control on the GUI and simply turn a jog wheel or data wheel on the MPC hardware itself to control that particular selected parameter. This means your "touch and turn" idea is already implemented here and can easily be done. What's even better is on the MPC Live and MPC One, you can have a selectable group of four parameters that can all be adjusted simultaneously with four special assignable knobs called "Q-Links."
And it gets even better. On the flagship MPC X, there are 16 Q-Link knobs each with an OLED strip above it allowing the user to adjust almost every parameter of a plugin synth or effect that is currently being displayed on the screen.
Although these machines are dedicated pieces of standalone hardware, they are also designed to function as midi controllers for software as well. They're nice hardware tools with very good DAW integration.
There's already TouchOSC, you can design your own controls.
And I guess if you're using a trackpad or Apple magic mouse, it's already figured out.
Woody, ps-s-st! You are reinventing the wheel. Modern VST synthesizers (at least the Roland Cloud VST) support MIDI learning, which allows you to immediately assign and re-assign any CC controllers and use them in the project as you wish. Right-click a knob in VST, select "Learn MIDI CC", then move the slider or knob on your MIDI keyboard.
I’ve had the same idea. I don’t have a controller with a lot of knobs so I have thought about using the modwheel for that purpose. We need pester our favourit software companie with this request to make it happen. I read in the comments that some software have this function, but it would need to be universal I think.
Most of the controls are adjustable using mousewheel so I would take guts of a computer mouse and wire the big knob instead of mousewheel :) I believe it could be done using endless rotary knob. Not sure about the fader but hopefully it could be done as well.
Try bitwig’s macro feature. Its here, it works and it solves most of your complaints. You get 8 faders per page in banks of visible parameters with your favorite things all made accessible and with most controllers a bank up and down and 8 knobs makes every synth accessible, sometimes without even having to look at the plugin because the labels are all on the macro page.
There is a product called NOB. Its a very nice high quality large knob. But no fader.
That's it, quite strange nobody else mentioned it.
This has been around for a while, Studio one for example has this feature which I use with their fader port.. mouse over anything and you can use the knob to control.
I also do that with my Faderport V2. That is one of few things I use the Faderport for nowadays.
I have researched this and tried audient solution but it has the same stepping as a regular mouse so it was not useful for me. The NI Kontrol approach is interesting it solves that even without mouse but still feels like an additional layer. The problem with the mouse or audient approach seems to be more on the software level, the computer OS mouse interface is in charge of passing the movement on the screen GUI information then to the Plug-in/DAW, but the wheel control part seems not designed to pass a real time detailed knob data. So the solution involves the OS manufacturer I think.
audient soundinterfaces have this feature, and its a huge knob ;)
I think a foot mouse or trackball would marry very well with your hover controller!
I like the approach, but as far as I can tell it means first positioning the mouse pointer with the mouse, then moving your hand to the physical knob to tweak it. For me this two-step process would cancel out the advantage of having a physical knob. It would be fairly easy to prototype though by taking a scroll wheel mouse and connect an external encoder with associated knob in place of the scroll wheel. I've experimented with a touch screen PC for controlling parameters, and the one finger gesture of directly pointing at the parameter knob on the screen and then directly dragging it is somewhat satisfying in terms of directness, compared to the clumsiness of a mouse.
Yes yes yes! Someone please build this!
This can be done with the Microsoft Surface Dial. The knob has a nice feel to it too 👍👍
First, just as you described, I was very dissapointed with soft synth/mouse experience.
Then I bought Push 2 which has 8 knobs and also buttons to switch banks of parameters. Tweaking knobs is good, but this time I hadn't enough visual feedback on what I tweak. Had to look at computer screen too often. On the push display I can see only 8 parameters at once, not the whole thing. Also, not every parameter can be controlled with knobs. Some things simpy can't be done with knobs like assigning a modulator to a parameter or connecting modules to each other in a modular environment etc.
Last week I bought a laptop with touchscreen and, man, I'm happy so far. Kind of getting the best of both worlds. Tweaking parameters on a touchscreen is way better than with a mouse. And I can see everything at once. All the actions work just like with mouse. The screen is only 13'' so I keep it closer to myself than my main 27'' monitor. It has kind of new 'synth at my fingertips' feel. I use Bitwig. It provides fantastic touch support. Yeah, I can tweak two parameters at once with my fingers. Touchscreen works in Bitwig like an MPE controller as well. I can control 2 parameters per note when playing chords and 3 parameters when playing single note with a pen. So the problem is solved for me.
Good idea. The Novation MKII SL keyboards have this and I have used it a few times it's the 'speed dial'. It works as the mouse scroll wheel so only synths and effects which respond to this will work.
Actually, if you just made a nice knob that sent mouse scroll codes via USB, no special software would be required. Windows can have multiple pointer devices connected at the same time so the soft synth would not know or care if the scroll commands were coming from the mouse wheel or the knob. Maybe a large Moog Source style knob with an Atari 'Missile command' type track ball in the center...
One potential issue I imagine could come from the fader; whether the parameter being hovered over would either snap to the current fader value immediately upon hovering, or as soon as the fader was moved. A non-issue for a knob with full 360 degree rotation, of course, but the fader has only that finite physical space to work with, so it can't necessarily re-calibrate to match the current software setting for the selected value.
yeah, that needs some thought to do right. but actually, same challenge exists on any hardware synth that uses presets, where the values never correspond to the physical controls when changing patches.
@@WoodyPianoShack Fair point! I wonder if losing the fader altogether would solve the problem, instead using the knob for everything? That way, if the selected parameter was, say, at 64 when last tweaked, it would start at 64 when you go to adjust the knob up or down.
It's an idea Woody, but you've got me thinking now. I wonder how far software companies are from being able to drop a sample ..ANY sample, into a synth and instead of copying the sample, self adjusting it's parameters to recreating it.
i see what you mean, very interesting idea!
Hoping I'm not the only one that came here expecting to see a something about a "Hoover Knob", that presumably mixes the famous Alpha Juno patch in and out over whatever sound you're using at a given time?
its a great idea for in studio daw work. for performing musicians, we do need something that is pre programmed and we are not looking at a screen to hover over something to control it. we just need a dedicated knob that just works.
try unify 1.9 which is a synth as well as a vst or AU wrapper that can host multiple synths from multiple manufactureres and you can program 1 knob to control any parameter on any synth on any layer simultaneously. for example, you could control the filter cut off on an Arturia Juno on one layer, another filter cut off on an omnisphere, a pulse width modulation on another synth on another layer, etc. just by turning one knob.
the real drawback of most/all mapping solutions is that they allow to only adjust one parameter at a time. opening the filter and raising the release time at the same time would also be impossible with a hover knob solution. it's trivial for hardware tho.
I've seen some pretty impressive demos of eye tracking software, wonder if you could pair them so you wouldn't even need to touch the mouse, just look at what you want to adjust and move the knob 🤔
If I'm playing the keyboard with my right hand, I'd have to use my right-hand-specific mouse with my left hand to hover over an onscreen knob with my non-dominant hand. I noticed that you weren't very accurate when you were attempting to hover over the on-screen knobs; sometimes you missed. A mouse click could eradicate that. Also, two actions would be involved with each different parameter change instead of the one action involved in turning the dedicated knob on the controller keyboard.
I like your way of thinking though.
I love this. You can sort of “brand” it with that name and then badger all of soft synth companies to support it.
Another thing that annoys me is that you can’t change patches with the arrow keys on the keyboard and some don’t respond to program change.
In the old days of computing (specifically Mac from what I know) and hardware there always at least ways to do most of the most common functions. For example, top menus, key command, or long click/double click/right click.
The Apple touch mouse works great with vsts knobs and sliders. You hover, don’t have to click anything, then just slide your index finger up and down. No dragging of the mouse. Been doing this for 15 years Woody. Glad you figured out how to use it 😂
I like your thinking Woody. Have you heard of the "Nektar" range of keyboards and midi controllers? Although their keyboards/controllers only work with certain DAW's, they have multiple rotary and sliders, that via their software automatically map to the DAW's instruments and fx. Also they have the various parameters printed onto the controllers knobs/faders. . I believe that you can even create and save your own CC mapping..
This idea was offered as a solution from 2017 NAMM called Kontrol Master. I had one. It is great ergonomically, but they made the software dependent on a server that was shutdown after the product failed.
So, it's in a land fill now.
I think that something with either a usb macropad with a knob or the $20 usb volume controllers on Amazon combined with the Windows macro software AHK may be able to do what the Kontrol Master did.
Actually Push 2 + Ableton Live did it already very well with all third part plugins. It's a trick that I already use for Arturia synths for instance. Because I totally agree with woody, midi mapping is simple but a pain stack to do it with all parameters of one virtual instrument and we have a lot today. I found out also that third part FX processors plug-ins parameters from this brands are fully handle by Push 2 without any configuration : Native Instruments, Soundtoys, Valhalla DSP, Eventide (H9 plugins). Of course stock plugins from Ableton are totally map on push2, likewise for Native Instruments collection and Komplete control or Arturia and Keylab controllers.
Imho a versatile controller with as many endless rotation buttons as possible combined with an advanced vst host is still the best solution. Problem is there really only is a few pieces of vst hosts that is advanced enough to give you absolute freedom of how you want to use your controllers and software synths and its really hard to design a controller that satisfy everyone.
This concept works în Vcv Rack already. Indeed it is very handy
Need some way to prevent inadvertently changing a parameter when not actively using control on hover - for example I've just finished modifying a parameter and now I want to just play the patch. I'll usually just leave the mouse cursor where it is, and start playing. If the mouse gets moved and the hardware knob gets inadvertently adjusted, I've possibly just changed a random parameter without knowing it.
FL Studio does the "scroll-wheel control while hovering over a plugin knob/fader" thingie for all plugins... not sure having an additional knob/fader does provide much in addition to the scroll wheel that's already there under your finger. DAWs should just all adopt the "FL Studio" way of adjusting plugin parameters... at least as an optional behavior.
Also, click and drag over two controls to map to both controls. Or generalize to a multi knob / fader controller, and drag over all the parameters you want. On the controller there could be a small OLED screen like on the Akai Fire that would automatically update with the name and value of the parameter.
That is indeed a very good idea! Just click 4 knobs in the software and they are automatically mapped to 4 hardware knobs that also display the name of the software control they are mapped to. There is really no end to this line of thinking.
This has one major flaw: you need one hand on the mouse and the other hand on the knob controller, leaving you with no hand left to actually play the keys. So I believe the mouse wheel solution is still better as it only needs one hand.
I think having generic controllers
With scribble strip displays is more appealing to me. You have to have an easy way to map midi though. An easier midi learn functionality. Studio One has automatic midi learning with their controllers. Works with all kinds of plugins. You can also manually map as well. It’s still a bit fiddly, but I think it’s not bad. It would be better if they had scribble displays though. Their Faderport 8 has it, but it’s not meant for controlling synth plugins.
I wasn’t excited until you broke out the colored Sharpies. Device definitely has to be in brilliant dayglo colors now.
yes yes, hardware manufactures, let me desigh the color scheme. pretty please!
Nice idea. However I think that the hardware might already exist in some form. It’s a track ball. I’m sure that once you hover, you can then spin the ball instead of move the mouse. Maybe someone might be able to cannibalise one and replace the ball with a knob that can be turned. However, then you’d lose the ability to guide the pointer over the control in question. But I think my Macs can have more than one wireless mouse connected at the same time. So a standard mouse could position the pointer and the trackball could seamlessly change the value
On the software side it's all about establishing the "focus". This can be done either by pointing-and-clicking or by hovering (also known as mouse-over). HTML lets you you do this. DAW programmers should have access to APIs that let them do it too, and they should provide a settings option to the user for how focus is established. One issue with mouse-over focus is you may be more prone to inadvertently changing a value as you're moving the mouse across the screen with the hover knob "live" and moved slightly.
a much cooler solution would be to use voice commands to assign stuff to knobs, e.g you say "Cutoff" into the mic and the VST assigns the cuttoff parameter to the super knob. Much easier because no need to reach for the mouse everytime even, you only work with the 1 controller you have to create the sound. Such controller should have 1 super knob and 4 sliders. So the words "Cutoff" and "Resonance" e.g would dictate the knob's function by default, and the words "Filter", "Pitch" and "Amp" would assign ADSR envelope functions to the 4 sliders.
really good idea, unless someone else is in the same room :)
Um, I solved this in 2006 on my products, man. Try them! You can switch *on the fly* between circular, linear and relative-circular modes (these are defined by the VST 2.x spec, I didn't invent it -- though almost no plug-ins support circular-relative -- but VST 2.x hosts usually have a host option for setting your preference of which mode, that the plug-ins can choose to obey if they want to and are capable) Also added some extras like course vs. fine sensitivity and natural feeling "detents" so the knobs snap to "sweet spots" that are otherwise near impossible to dial-in exactly.
Scroll wheeling is stupid as it's not analog, it's discreet. Dial in half a scroll click! You can't.
«2014-09-30, 14h08: Remote improvements (Map overloading, Shortcuts/Options exposed to Remote, Mouse-Hover param Control, ...)»
An excerpt of one (of many) feature suggestions I sent to Propellerhead Software (now Reason Studios) requesting a Mouse-Hover Remoteable to be mapped to a MIDI Controller control which would do exactly what you're describing here :) ...but only with Reason (my DAW of choice) ...if only they'd listened to me ;P
I've programmed Cubase so that a knob on my controller modify the value of the virtual knob/slider I'm pointing with my mouse/cursor.
It`s a good idea for software SYnths. I think that I could already do something like this using a `Spinner` device that I built for one of my ARcade Machine builds. Basically turning the SPinner knob only moves the mouse cursor through one axis, horizontal or Vertical. The Computer sees the SPinner as a type of Mouse and you can typically assign a couple of `mouse` button controls to it, if the button for the left mouse control was latching instead of momentary then it would also be like holding down the left mouse button without having to do so if you wished to do that too. Now you can`t buy a ready made `Spinner box` assembly, they are either buildt into an Arcade Machine`s front panel or you have to build your own into a project box like I did and then attach it to the computer via USB. This idea only works of course when the mouse action required to turn a knob is just up and down but I think that most of the software Synths are like that. So in the end you can navigate the software synth with both hands : A trackball or mouse in one hand and then a `spinner box` in the other and no need for any midi CC`s etc .......
The problem with faders, is that once you move from one on-screen fader to the other, your physical fader won't represent the value of the object you move your mouse onto, and if you only want to fine-tune a value, you'll have to make sure you take note of what the current value is, move the fader into the right position and adjust... In general, I loathe faders that don't permanently correspond to a single parameter on a device. It's one of those things that seem cool on paper, but it just becomes more tedious than simply using the mouse.
The same issue applies to knobs that are not endless. The only way to have a multi-use knob that is actually useful, is for it to be an endless one, and many people don't like those, because they are usually not smooth enough compared to traditional ones.
I think the best solution, is for midi software to be able to detect which controls are available on your midi keyboard, and be able to automatically assign them to the appropriate controls in the plugin. And currently, this doesn't seem like a priority. My DAW of choice is FL Studio, and that has pretty sub par midi implementation. Not even basic features like the pitch and mod wheel are automatically mapped, and there's no way of doing any global settings for this, as far as I've been able to discover. And having to set this up in every single plugin...nay every single INSTANCE of a plugin, in every new project you start... *sigh* And quite frequently, the "learn" feature isn't working properly either, so you have to manually go through the whole parameter list and assign it to an appropriate control on the midi keyboard.
Honestly, this is a major reason why I've become more and more fond of real hardware. The sound of many soft synths can be great, and in general it's cheaper (although often not CHEAP) than hardware, but it does come at a BIG drawback. I wish the industry got together and tried to figure out a more elegant solution for auto-mapping of controllers.
Cubases CC121 is a motorised fader
Bravo!!!! That's a great idea!!!!
Solid concept! I have a feeling one could achieve this with ReaLearn in Reaper... if you click the control first, it can probably be a native action. Now I've gotta try some things!
I think if a keyboard shortcut for each knob on the screen would be even better than hovering the knob, but it's more a matter of taste than anything else, I guess.
I've sent this exact idea to the developers of Cubase and Logic circa 8 years ago. The important factor being that you select a knob that you already have on an existing controller which the DAW default to. That one knob then acts like your mouse wheel. ... like you explained.
Thanks to the ease of arduino ide and PieterP's helpful control surface library I was able to built an arduino prototype for (EDIT:something similar to) this changing only a few lines in the tutorial example code for a bankable knob.
Hooked up two pots to analog pins A0 and A1 (on the pot wipers, the other two pins on 5v and ground, of course)
Instead of defining the bank as Bank bank(3) or whatever they had in the code it's just Bank bank(1)
the first knob controls what cc number the other does
Cool idea! I would also add a few pushbuttons to toggle between different modes of operation. It wouldn’t be too different to design from a hardware standpoint, just a simple microcontroller that can emulate a mouse. The software side would be the hard part, developers would have to support it (having it in the formal VST spec be the best way to encourage developers). Maybe something is possible with an Autohotkey script for VST’s that don’t support the behaviour from them selves.
Good idea, just missing the numerous type of switches and push buttons. A problem, perhaps, you move your mouse with right hand, and you turn knobs with the same hand (same with left hand for left-handed) and that is a big problem. If you're right-handed you will move the mouse with right hand, so only left one will be available to turn the knob, and it will not be easy nor precise (the reverse for left handed). On my own, being an ambidexter, never mind, but the vast majority of people is lateralized...
that's true, i mean nothing stopping you from letting go of the mouse and moving same hand to the knob. i'm right handed, but feels quite natural to move knob with my left hand for efficiency.
@@WoodyPianoShack I think the concept is interesting enough to try to get a prototype and see how people react... Hoping you'll make one !
Great idea Woody. That’s thinking outside the box, or rather the mouse! How about an entire computer keyboard with assignable knobs and sliders instead of QWERTY characters and also a trackpad incorporated for moving the cursor?
Perhaps this has already been suggested, but maybe the hover knob can be a mouse also? Perhaps you can have a small knob that can move the mouse cursor over the parameter that you want to control? 😊
I came up with a simpler solution in my set up a while ago, that actually lets you not have to navigate to where you put the mouse at all, (which is a real time performance creativity killer) and lets you control every single knob, labeled exactly as they are in each and every synth. Think of the Arturia collection as one example of many. Touch screen monitor. It's magical. Does exactly all of that.
If you already have a monitor that isn't touchscreen, then simply purchase a USB touchscreen frame that mounts on you current monitor. They sell them to fit any size monitor. I bought one on Amazon for my 27" monitor for only $155. Worth every penny for controlling all those knobs in real time performance, just like having the real thing right there.
One last tip, mount your monitor(s) on arms which you can tilt to an angle to give you that more playing a board feel. Plus you can swing them to wherever you want when playing. I have three monitors all set up like this. I can literally have 3 different synths loaded to each monitors and all controlled by touch, completely eliminating that nasty moving the mouse business around while trying to be creative.
I have Softube Console 1. I can’t imagine having to use a mouse going back and forth a multiple times to change parameters during sound design, production or mixing. Mastering maybe. Why not also control the pointer with it like a mouse?
Adding a track pad or track ball to your control box design would be a useful addition.
Some (or many) midi controllers do it almost the same way you've suggested. You should just click a parameter and it's automatically mapped to a knob.
Anyway, I don't think it helps a lot. We have dozens of plugins in projects. And to control them the way you want, you need to scroll tracks, open a plugin's window, tweak it, close it, find another plugin, and so on. Boring.
This is the biggest difference from hardware you've mentioned in the beginning - hardware controls are always available
I like the idea.
Right now I'm using a trackball, so there is no need for sliding. It is somehow better than the mouse because it stays in the
same spot, and moving the cursor with one finger is way easier ( for me ) than having to drag my hand over a surface.
I was never able to get the same precision with the everyday mouse.
Such controllers exist, they are used for drawing or video editing, they have a relatively big knob/ wheel with a precise movement and they are priced accordingly. I was thinking to get one, but the trackball does a fine job for me.
It's a good idea actually, I can see me using it :)
It's called Presonus fader port lol , the link option makes the pan pot being link to mouse controla and on what ever you point he mouse on , also my Focursite Forte interface can do that (when i'm on the go) , the fader then can also flit to this mode versus regular fader mode ....
Great video as usual ...
Hi Woody. Have you tried out Gig Performer? It is brilliant for customisation..very easy to do all manner of user mapped configurations etc..perfect for live playing. Once it is setup you don't have to touch the mouse...any midi button can do anything you need. But I do think the idea you've mentioned would be great too. Thanks.
Last year I was lucky, got an mp midi control. Touchscreen, 4 pages of 32 assignable knobs, presets that never forget always visible . Many software synths have been transformed to hardware now. Ableton with the push and the assignable macros is also great. Why not make this a standard way of working. DAW loads vst in some kind of macro screen and a standard midi controller for all daws?
I think you better head to the copyright office now because you have a winner here my dude!
Yeah given it's already been done my dude!
Where's John, is he making videos great again?
Serious issue: what about the fader being at a given position, every time you move to a virtual fader it will override the value with the value of the physical fader. I guess the knob would work better but for the same reason it cannot be limited to a min and max position, it needs to be a free turning knob. That already limits the tactile feel. To me, these issues would already kill the project. But let's to be positive, pretend that these issues don't exist for a moment: I would add some kind of mouse cursor controller like a track pad to the device, so we can do everything with one hand on the device, to minimise the effort.
Great idea. One downside however is when you hover over let’s say a virtual fader, the fader is in a certain state that most likely does not match the state of the physical fader. As soon as you start moving the physical fader, the midi postition gets reset. That means you don’t start off the desired position. Maybe not a huge deal, but annoying when you want to work with precise values. It kind of takes away the authenticity of working with hardware. A great, but expensive solution would be a motorized knob and fader though 😊 if it could be made affordable it will have great potential on Shark Tank 😅
There’s a work around, think it’s called take over mode on fl so it won’t interact until it’s at same parameters as the synth
@@TheRealCalijokes01 oh cool, I didn’t think about that. It solves this issue, but then again it still doesn’t mimic the knob fiddling on hardware synths.
What about adding a touchpad to the one knob/fader device so we can let go the mouse!
1 Knob, 1 Fader and 1 Touchpad
It needs to be open source so when you post this to twitter tag it with things like #linux, #opensource, #freebsd and so on and developers would consider it. This way people could build hardware and sale it or you could make your own. The companies that make Midi controllers try to make a one size fits all solution but we have seen with the SSL UC1 that dedicated controllers let you get to work making music. Nektar does some really deep integration with 90% of all synths out there in a very intuitive way so maybe tag them as well. I would like to see developers adopt a framework that allows better integration across DAWs and instruments for better control. Cheers Woody!
Woody, I enjoy your videos! Have you tried scrolling your mouse wheel while hovering over a control knob?