Resources for mobile users: Windows on PI worproject.com/ Download Windows 11 images worproject.com/esd UEFI BIOS github.com/worproject/rpi5-uefi Touch screen: amzn.to/3VLxe9N PI5: amzn.to/3xpczhV Mini audio interface: amzn.to/3U7xw9S Synth stands: www.sculptedstands.com/floyd SSD adapter amzn.to/3xva9yk Network adapter amzn.to/3J9fnlG
super interesting videos, wondering though, what is the difference between this and a laptop on the side? What advantages could it bring in the future? As complement to a standalone MPC for instance? Would be cool to see you present some practical cases in the studio. Cheers
@@eddiexx In the way I presented it here, there is not a lot of differences. The Raspberry PI has a GPIO port though, which can be used for connecting all sorts of electronic components like encoders, potentiometers, faders and so on. So it's really not the difficult for the DIY community to come up with custom hardware controllers to go along with their favourite plugin. Windows 10 on Raspberry PI had the drivers for this port (if I remember correctly) and I'm pretty sure we'll get that on Windows 11 eventually. Another way to use this is to build it into a very small box with a smaller screen and then use it in a desktop synth setup as the box that does reverb / piano whatevery those tiny synths can't do.
@@mr_floydst i get it, well that sounds really great, making a shell for lets say diva or any other vst. Thanks for explaining, im sure its obvious for many but for others who are not so knowledgeable its good to explain the basic idea and potential use. Cheers
could you use a Pi 5 as a basis to make a LMN 3 ? Also not to be a heretic could you try to make an Orange Pi 5 Plus 16GB/or/32GB RAM - Into a LMN 3 !!
I build custom digital pianos and am continuously in search of better sounds. Of the many talented people posting videos like these, yours are among the most helpful I've found.
That's very cool! And nice job on the sponsor, I spent a frustrating amount of time trying to find a stand that would work at the right angle for my little MC-101 and this would've been perfect! Excited to see what you come up with with the 3D printer. I love the idea of building something like the Akai MPC Keys 37 with these sorts of parts.
@@ChappIOMusic I know, but I chose my words carefully because sometimes people don't like the scale of their business disclosed online. ;-) I hope this video will work for you.
Floyd you never disappoint. I envy someone who has enough energy to stay up on all these cool things AND enough left over to make a coherent vlog about it.
There used to be a hardware VST player called “V machine”. It was cheap, slow, could run some plugins but not the nice ones, and had a fiddly interface. I still used it for a few years as a sound font sampler and VA synth for my live rig. This project looks like it could be useful for something like it
Thanks for watching - yes, I had that one on this channel some years ago. It was not great, but it solved a very specific problem that some musicians are in need of solving. There's nothing comparable on the market at the moment.
i dont understand why didnt find this channel earlier.I prompted things like "raspi diy synth" or "raspi DAWs" and so on for nearly half a year and it really took that long to get here, but this will really fet interesting1
I think the problem with my videos is that most people don't watch the videos long enough. Two thirds of the viewers are gone after one third of the video. I don't want to start to make "attention-grabbing" videos though. ;-)
Very nice! I’d love to see a follow up in a few months when you can use an nVME drive. Especially for running Kontakt in a live setup, it’d be nice to know how much this little computer can handle. Thanks again!!
Thank you so much for this vid, really relevant stuff, now just waiting to do something similar on pico versions and do hard versions of some mid 2000's gems like m42 nebula
Thanks - the PI5 basically is a smartphone without the screen, a lot of RAM and CPU power. PICO isn't, it's a microcontroller meant to move around tiny bits of data. I think we'll have to wait for a year or two to get the computing power in an even smaller form factor.
I haven't tried the Arturia plugins myself yet, but given their specs, they _should_ work (they need 4GB of RAM and a capable enough CPU, the PI5 has 8GB of RAM and a fairly powerful CPU) Please note that I won't recommend this setup right now, it's much too fiddly to use with all those external USB stuff dangling around. Give it some months, or take a look at the "Higole Mini PC" (see ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.htmlsi=Lcou7BS8B2zFsm1B )
Great video Floyd 👍🙂, and definitely worth trying. I will have a go at it with an RPi5 inside an Argon case, and see how it performs. All the best as always!
Cool! I use an old machine with Windows 10 and Kushview Element as a host instead of Reaper. I also use a fiddly touch-screen lol. My goal is to use this old machine as a mixing outboard gear with the audio passing through the network, so I didn't install any audio interface on it. I don't want to use the Audiogridder app, so now I'm testing the NDI audio vst
Great content and thanks for doing this. Have you checked by chance Elk Audio OS for raspberry pi? It seems a promising linux distro optimized for low-latency audio.
Brilliant! I'm curious if this setup runs Arturia Analog Lab so you could build your own "AstroLab" for less than half the price of the original 😄Even including the beloved sampled instruments such as Mellotron which are missing in the AstroLab...
I've got a 10 years old V-Machine Linux dedicated VST host with OP-X PRO License installed on it but it's very weak for current software requirements. But I also encounter the same problem of Linux unable to run iLok dongle server so now I'm looking at some s/h Windows tiny PC such as either HP or Lenovo Thinkcenter for that purpose. If you're really after low power use then Asrock Intel N100 boards would be the way to go. They beat a Rasperry Pi power consumption in idle mode for sure.
Thanks for watching! Did you see my older video, ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.htmlsi=6TGY_Zpw2ckW0tAB ? This is a smartphone-sized Windows PC. It's not exactly overpowered, but you can use it for musical purposes. In that video, I'm running the same tests as in this one ;-)
Hey I also have one of those. It runs soundfont samplers and Synth1 just fine, that alone made it worth the price back then. Thankfully I’ve since switched to a laptop rig.
I was puzzled by your use of Reaper - surely VST Host would be better? although Reaper is fairly resource light. The default format for SD cards and memory sticks over 4Gb is exFAT
Hi, thanks for watching and commenting! You're right, Reaper is pretty lightweight. But you can use any VST host software you prefer. On Windows, FAT32 is the default when you open the formatting tool.
This is something specific I was looking for. I have had a long standing dream of taking a mini pc and housing it, an audio interface, and a touch screen in a keyboard controller and making an all-inclusive VSTi synthesizer. I suspect these will become more popular over time once someone sorts out the details between connections, drivers, and control mapping.
Thanks for watching! On PI4, they even added support for the GPIO pins, if I remember correctly. Having that would open up endless possibilities of build your own controller boards on top of your favourite plugins.
Would love a small touchscreen friendly user interface for VSTs. So you could use any of the VST parameters and choose/search for patches. Kind of like Akai's VIP was before they abandoned it.
That's a software MIDI controller - most plugins can be controlled by MIDI CC, so if one developed a plugin that's basically a lot of big faders and "knobs", and then also added a lot of config files for the most common plugins, this could work. Got to do some research if this exists. ;-) Thanks for your input!
I guess the emulator is adding a tiny bit of latency, but other than that, the whole thing runs and feels just like a standard PC. I'd recommend waiting for some more months before using this for production...
Hi, thanks for watching! Would love to test the Orange PI 5 pro, but män, that thing is expensive. I'm not earning enough money with my videos to buy stuff like that just to show it in a video. ;-)
You propably could, but it's not ideal. Also, an SSD won't help with latency - it's the audio driver and sound system. Using another audio interface might help. Please take a look at tiny portable PCs like this, they're less of a hassle to set up: ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.html
@@mr_floydst would a orange pi with 16gb or ram be better for handling a load? You also have the option to give it more storage too? I’m in the middle of trying to figure out an idea that would be stable low latency and be able to just plug and play almost.
Thank you very much - yes, of course, you can use whatever software you like to as a host. As long as the software doesn't try to do "close-to-the-hardware" stuff, the emulator will run just fine.
Thanks! I'm afraid there isn't. One can run Linux but the X64/X86 emulators there are inferior. The manufacturers could compile their plugins for ARM of course, but they don't. So using Windows is really the most practicable solution for people who _really_ want to use a RasPi as a VST host for their plugins.
Hi Floyd, I just watched Jeff Geerling's video "When Did Raspberry Pi become the villain?" and he compared the Pi5 to a mini PC which costs $120 and when you add up all accessories for the P5 it almost costs the same in the long run. It runs Windows 11 natively and shouldn't suffer from the issues the Pi has at the moment. I also came across a mini PC with a built in 5.5" touchscreen called the Higole 2 Pro. If i can find a mini pc with a 7" screen thats affordable i'll order one, otherwise i will use a normal mini PC and buy the Touchscreen separately.
Hi, I made a video on the Higole some months ago ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.htmlsi=ZCaG2pLfAHP1YWPB I should have mentioned it here. :) The PI5 is a good alternative if you already own one, but in it's current state, I'd not choose it over the Higole. That might change once all the drivers are available and most of the external hardware isn't needed any more.
@@mr_floydst oh wow, you're always one step ahead! Great videon 😁I ordered a Kasepe mini pc with Intel N95 processor, 16GB DDR5 RAM and 512GB SDD for €160 last night. And an Akntzcs Portable Monitor Touchscreen 10.1 Inch for €108 . Both the mini PC and monitor have a vesa mount so I can screw them together. I have a feeling that the VST Host you will be showing in your next video is Gig Performer! 😉 Thanks for taking the time to reply, your videos are awesome.
Thanks for watching! Please give it some more time. I'm hugely impressed the BIOS was finished that quickly. I'm pretty certain will get network support sooner than later.
Sooo ... this is an interesting approach Rpi5 is fast enough to do Windows ... but most of it seems to be done via x86 emulation Hope this one does have a longer live than the famous Windows/Office on Alpha project Guessing you pushed some boundaries here ... thanks a lot for sharing all the details
Would love to use this with a simple VST host that is touch screeen friendly rather than using a conplete DAW. Would be great for keyboard players in a live setting.
Hi! That wouldn't help a lot - the main "chunk" of the boot sequence is occupied by Windows. And without Windows, you won't be able to run X64/X86 software (I know there are emulators on Linux as well, but they are nowhere as advanced or easy to use as the one built into Windows).
@@mr_floydst oh that totally makes sense. I didn't think about the x86 emulation as being the important part of the process to use the plug-ins. I wonder if there is a way to use the m1 mac version.
I think that's how most people who insist to not use Windows (or MacOS) would tackle this problem, albeit on an AMD/Intel system. You'll get superb results using that approach. This video is more of a report on how close you can get on a Raspberry Pi, because a lot of people are interested in that.
Wine can only emulate the Windows API, but not the X64/X86 code that's needed to run the actual effects / sound generation. There is an emulator for that, and it certainly works, but it's super complicated to set up and then it doesn't perform as nicely as the one in Windows.
I'm new to RPi stuff, I specifically want it for live performance. Is there some way a guy can keep tabs on how low developers have gotten the latency before I take the plunge? I can't afford to go down the rabbit hole without knowing it won't be too slow for playing. Thanks very much.
If you use a USB audio interface in Linux, latency will be around 10ms by default. You can shave some precious milliseconds off that by using a Real Time Kernel and throwing out all sound "daemons" that are not needed. Hm, seems like a good video topic to me, thanks for your input. Please keep an eye on this channel. ;-)
@@mr_floydst Thanks very much for your quick reply. I'd be interested in seeing how low you can get the latency. I'd personally be using it as a synth or effect using Pure Data, with a MIDI controller for parameter changes.
Microsoft wanted to be on ARM some years ago (they released the Surface Pro X, for example). They knew they could only pull this off if they'd bring all the Windows Apps to that platform. They seem to have quite the team to pull such things off, remember that Xbox 360 emulator on the Xbox One? That one was quite unbelievable, too.
That's right. I used box86/box64 ( github.com/ptitSeb/box64 ) in a previous video, but while it kind of works, it's basically unusable. I'll try if this is better on PI5 and post my findings.
The PI5 itself can, but at the making of this video, the Windows drivers were not ready yet. I think I saw news this has changed already, but please confirm this yourself. ;-)
Well, it's a question I've been getting over and over, can we run VST plugins on this. Here's a working, pragmatic answer. I'm not here for the politics. I love Linux and I don't hate Windows or MacOS.
I’m a Solution Architect by trade… Did I just see you demonstrate that for less than $500 (US) I could build something that is more powerful than an MPC? I could use a USB velocity sensitive drum pad a a controller, the screen you have here, a Raspberry Pi5, and a battery (with power controller) and put it all in a 3D printed box (I have a 3D printer)…
You are right, this _is_ more powerful than an MPC, but MPC has a very well thought out user interface that allows you to get results quickly without dealing with hard-to-read screens. So while the hardware may be a winner, there's some R&D on the software side to be done.
No. This video explains how to install Windows, which then emulates an X86/X64 CPU and lets you run Wintel/AMD software on the PI. I made several videos on Reaper on Linux on PI in the past, e.g. ua-cam.com/video/O04HqwIwdco/v-deo.html or ua-cam.com/video/frUf6ANQi1k/v-deo.htmlsi=UttkLVsi9NvPIEna or ua-cam.com/video/iIcKMS_lxZ8/v-deo.htmlsi=DKA32JQqbqKa4Mq9, if you're looking for that.
Basically what I am looking for is for a device that lets me use software synths like if they were hardware. I was thinking about a raspberry pi with some midi in and out and to run on it the vsts
Hi, thanks for watching! From the videos transscript: "Thanks to the seamless X64 emulation, I could install most plugins and software that's really for Intel or AMD architecture without problems. So I installed Reaper, and those MPC plugins I showed in an earlier video." The emulator is baked into Windows and you won't even notice it running. Only very low-level drivers will refuse to work with it, but for example ASIO4ALL works without problems.
It's related to the snapdragon X machines that are launching soon. Just like Apple had to develop rosetta 2 to avoid software scarcity, M$ needed to make a way to open up the x86 software pool to the ARM processor users. They didn't before so the ARM processors failed back in the windows phone/arm processor surface tablet era. There's no actual benefit to ARM for the user, it's not magic. You still have to execute instructions. The biggest gain is made for manufacturers, because they can buy an ARM license instead of buying whole chips from Intel/AMD. But seeing dual core > 1GHz RISC-V stuff coming out with GPIO pins, I2C, and forward facing mentality(same as arduino, RISC-V looks to be splitting cores to either face the user or the hardware) makes me think RPi's days are numbered in the hobbyist world unless they clean up their act. An embedded SBC only needs as much processing power as is required, so if you're going to keep trying to stick wanna-be general computing SBCs in you'll simply end up taxing everything(heat, power draw, complexity, cost) Currently, I'd just use an n100 mini pc from Amazon for this, you're really just putting a bunch of devices on the USB bus, not leveraging the GPIO/I2C capabilities of the RPi.
Would latency perhaps improve if you were using the hat for the ssd? Perhaps I am misunderstanding your comment. This is just the win 64 version? The only dl's I see that mentions intel is mac os for intel and arm and some linux arm installs.
Do you think there will be versions of the boards you mention that have Pi resource placement, ie pins , cards and usb/ networking. I would love to see the zynthian v5 hardware with one of the boards you mention.@Grimmwoldds
@@unkleskunky There's tons of other boards. GPIO, UART, I2C, etc. Not only the host of RPi clones, but now RISC-V, and Arduino devices too. RPi didn't invent GPIO/I2C, they're just standard for low cost SBC/microcontrollers. USB/ethernet is more difficult, because it takes space on small boards(and the RPi is a big boy now, maybe too big), but most will have at least 1 host USB-A port and one data/power USB-C port. Wifi is getting to be a staple. The biggest problem is that they're all different(especially RISC-V, but a mango pi or beaglebone is not an RPi) Pi already has a massive user base supporting them and creating code/use cases for RPi, which is the only thing keeping them afloat. You can't just pick up a github project for an RPi and stick it on a different SBC.
@@mr_floydst peter sellers, pink panther. i love your vids. you are in your 40s? if not my apologies. it was a good reference. watch pink panther when inspecter clouseau interrogates a suspect. peter sellers is a master of comedy. also check out dr strangelove. keep up the good work!
Yes, of course. If you want to use AMD/Intel/Windows software, the best way is naturally to use the platform it was designed for. This video is for people who want to know how far RasPi has come.
Your framerate has been off for a huge portion of your last video's. Has anyone mentioned this before? Makes it quite unwatchable for me even though I love the videos
My videos have been 4k, 25fps for years. I could change to, say, 1920x1080, 50fps, but I think being able to read the labels and to zoom in is much more important for this type of content than having a buttery smooth panning. Any second opinions on this?
@@mr_floydst That's very interesting, 25fps should be plenty! I thought it was something on my end after reading your comment, but after scrolling through the video frame by frame, I notice a ton of dropped frames. You can use the arrow keys to scroll through individual frames. When doing that every 2nd or 3rd frame is a duplicate of the previous, meaning an effective framerate that's more in the range of 15fps (this can be seen very clearly around 9:43). I wonder if you see the same thing. And I wonder where it goes wrong.
Just an update on this - seems my Video Editor had a bug in it's MP4 codec. Brought it to the attention of the developers who indeed had a hotfix ready! So future videos will have a stable frame rate. (The next one might still be choppy because it's already in the box)
@@mr_floydst aaaawesome mate! Thanks for updating me, taking it seriously, the whole lot. I've been put off by watching some of your previous content because of this, so I just listened while doing something else, but thanks a whole lot! Your video's already have great quality, so this is the last step.
ilok is so trash. i simply just dont use any plugin that requires it. i tried a long time ago but after reinstalling windows and being unable to ever use the plugins again i decided ill stick to FOSS
@@mr_floydst if i didnt already have a big collection of non drm plugins and had a collection of iLok plugins i could see figuring out how to make it sustainable
Thanks for watching - yep, that's nothing to write home about, but as I said in the video, these are early days. In my opinion, it's at least worth keeping an eye on.
@@adriansmithmusic I think we will see improvements over the course of the year, as I said in the video - the UEFI BIOS has been released a couple of weeks ago only.
@@mr_floydst it's very exciting. I plan to use it in college for doing covers of songs, especially 80s stuff. Being able to load up the original presents on Arturias V collection, Native Instruments access and the AIR Plugons which I originally bought for the Akai Force will be spectacular. Thanks for showing it to the world.
@tresporros come on, let's be sensible by not unnecessarily picking on what's obvious... You come across as a typical hater (not saying you ARE) Just genuinely trying to help mate ;)
I'll show interesting things regardless of which system they're running on in the future, be it Linux, Windows, Android, IOS, MacOS, ... In my opinion, the emulator in Win11 deserves some praise. ;-)
Resources for mobile users:
Windows on PI worproject.com/
Download Windows 11 images worproject.com/esd
UEFI BIOS github.com/worproject/rpi5-uefi
Touch screen: amzn.to/3VLxe9N
PI5: amzn.to/3xpczhV
Mini audio interface: amzn.to/3U7xw9S
Synth stands: www.sculptedstands.com/floyd
SSD adapter amzn.to/3xva9yk
Network adapter amzn.to/3J9fnlG
super interesting videos, wondering though, what is the difference between this and a laptop on the side? What advantages could it bring in the future? As complement to a standalone MPC for instance? Would be cool to see you present some practical cases in the studio. Cheers
@@eddiexx In the way I presented it here, there is not a lot of differences. The Raspberry PI has a GPIO port though, which can be used for connecting all sorts of electronic components like encoders, potentiometers, faders and so on. So it's really not the difficult for the DIY community to come up with custom hardware controllers to go along with their favourite plugin.
Windows 10 on Raspberry PI had the drivers for this port (if I remember correctly) and I'm pretty sure we'll get that on Windows 11 eventually.
Another way to use this is to build it into a very small box with a smaller screen and then use it in a desktop synth setup as the box that does reverb / piano whatevery those tiny synths can't do.
@@mr_floydst i get it, well that sounds really great, making a shell for lets say diva or any other vst. Thanks for explaining, im sure its obvious for many but for others who are not so knowledgeable its good to explain the basic idea and potential use. Cheers
could you use a Pi 5 as a basis to make a LMN 3 ?
Also not to be a heretic could you try to make an Orange Pi 5 Plus 16GB/or/32GB RAM - Into a LMN 3 !!
I build custom digital pianos and am continuously in search of better sounds. Of the many talented people posting videos like these, yours are among the most helpful I've found.
Thank you very much!
That's very cool! And nice job on the sponsor, I spent a frustrating amount of time trying to find a stand that would work at the right angle for my little MC-101 and this would've been perfect!
Excited to see what you come up with with the 3D printer. I love the idea of building something like the Akai MPC Keys 37 with these sorts of parts.
Thanks! I hope the stands do well. It's a great idea and (I hope I'm allowed to say this) it's really not a mega corporation manufacturing these. :-)
@@mr_floydst “not a megacorporation” is a very nice way of putting it 😂
It’s just me, in my workshop.
@@ChappIOMusic I know, but I chose my words carefully because sometimes people don't like the scale of their business disclosed online. ;-) I hope this video will work for you.
@@mr_floydst absolutely! I love it. Being featured is really a big deal to me.
Floyd you never disappoint. I envy someone who has enough energy to stay up on all these cool things AND enough left over to make a coherent vlog about it.
Thank you very much for your kind words! Making these videos takes quite some time indeed. Someday it will pay off, maybe ;-)
Really thank you Mr Floyd, you're always bringing nice and useful information. Keep doing that, this is for help you with the 3D printer.
Thank you very much!
There used to be a hardware VST player called “V machine”. It was cheap, slow, could run some plugins but not the nice ones, and had a fiddly interface. I still used it for a few years as a sound font sampler and VA synth for my live rig.
This project looks like it could be useful for something like it
Thanks for watching - yes, I had that one on this channel some years ago. It was not great, but it solved a very specific problem that some musicians are in need of solving. There's nothing comparable on the market at the moment.
Thank You, shared to my Twitter friends this as well :)
Thank you very much, that's the spirit this channel needs! (UA-cam's algorithm does not like my slow-paced videos) ;-)
i dont understand why didnt find this channel earlier.I prompted things like "raspi diy synth" or "raspi DAWs" and so on for nearly half a year and it really took that long to get here, but this will really fet interesting1
I think the problem with my videos is that most people don't watch the videos long enough. Two thirds of the viewers are gone after one third of the video. I don't want to start to make "attention-grabbing" videos though. ;-)
Very nice! I’d love to see a follow up in a few months when you can use an nVME drive. Especially for running Kontakt in a live setup, it’d be nice to know how much this little computer can handle. Thanks again!!
I'll do an update video (maybe in short form) once the drivers become available.
Thank you so much for this vid, really relevant stuff, now just waiting to do something similar on pico versions and do hard versions of some mid 2000's gems like m42 nebula
Thanks - the PI5 basically is a smartphone without the screen, a lot of RAM and CPU power. PICO isn't, it's a microcontroller meant to move around tiny bits of data. I think we'll have to wait for a year or two to get the computing power in an even smaller form factor.
@@mr_floydst You mentioned "mobile" is there any chance that emulator will work on android phones?
this is soo cool. Do the arturia plugins also work? A raspi 5 with maschine mk3 and the arturia v collection would be awesome
I haven't tried the Arturia plugins myself yet, but given their specs, they _should_ work (they need 4GB of RAM and a capable enough CPU, the PI5 has 8GB of RAM and a fairly powerful CPU)
Please note that I won't recommend this setup right now, it's much too fiddly to use with all those external USB stuff dangling around. Give it some months, or take a look at the "Higole Mini PC" (see ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.htmlsi=Lcou7BS8B2zFsm1B )
Great video Floyd 👍🙂, and definitely worth trying. I will have a go at it with an RPi5 inside an Argon case, and see how it performs. All the best as always!
Thanks for watching!
Cool! I use an old machine with Windows 10 and Kushview Element as a host instead of Reaper. I also use a fiddly touch-screen lol. My goal is to use this old machine as a mixing outboard gear with the audio passing through the network, so I didn't install any audio interface on it. I don't want to use the Audiogridder app, so now I'm testing the NDI audio vst
Thanks for watching - this sounds like an interesting plan!
This was very interesting Floyd!
Thanks!
@@mr_floydst Are you related to Karl Steinberg by chance?
Great content and thanks for doing this. Have you checked by chance Elk Audio OS for raspberry pi? It seems a promising linux distro optimized for low-latency audio.
Thanks! I havn't tried it yet, but it's on my list!
Brilliant! I'm curious if this setup runs Arturia Analog Lab so you could build your own "AstroLab" for less than half the price of the original 😄Even including the beloved sampled instruments such as Mellotron which are missing in the AstroLab...
Analog Lab needs 4GBs of RAM to run - should work if it does not need iLok. I'll test it if I have the time.
I've got a 10 years old V-Machine Linux dedicated VST host with OP-X PRO License installed on it but it's very weak for current software requirements. But I also encounter the same problem of Linux unable to run iLok dongle server so now I'm looking at some s/h Windows tiny PC such as either HP or Lenovo Thinkcenter for that purpose. If you're really after low power use then Asrock Intel N100 boards would be the way to go. They beat a Rasperry Pi power consumption in idle mode for sure.
Thanks for watching! Did you see my older video, ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.htmlsi=6TGY_Zpw2ckW0tAB ?
This is a smartphone-sized Windows PC. It's not exactly overpowered, but you can use it for musical purposes.
In that video, I'm running the same tests as in this one ;-)
Hey I also have one of those. It runs soundfont samplers and Synth1 just fine, that alone made it worth the price back then. Thankfully I’ve since switched to a laptop rig.
I was puzzled by your use of Reaper - surely VST Host would be better? although Reaper is fairly resource light.
The default format for SD cards and memory sticks over 4Gb is exFAT
Hi, thanks for watching and commenting! You're right, Reaper is pretty lightweight. But you can use any VST host software you prefer.
On Windows, FAT32 is the default when you open the formatting tool.
This is something specific I was looking for. I have had a long standing dream of taking a mini pc and housing it, an audio interface, and a touch screen in a keyboard controller and making an all-inclusive VSTi synthesizer. I suspect these will become more popular over time once someone sorts out the details between connections, drivers, and control mapping.
Thanks for watching! On PI4, they even added support for the GPIO pins, if I remember correctly. Having that would open up endless possibilities of build your own controller boards on top of your favourite plugins.
bless you synth king
Thanks for watching!
There is only one synth king, though ( www.youtube.com/@Bernd_Bruening ) ;-)
have you tested latency in linux?
I will make a seperate video on Linux soon!
much smaller DAW support in Linux... unfortunately. No Kontakt 7 for starters.
Would love a small touchscreen friendly user interface for VSTs. So you could use any of the VST parameters and choose/search for patches. Kind of like Akai's VIP was before they abandoned it.
That's a software MIDI controller - most plugins can be controlled by MIDI CC, so if one developed a plugin that's basically a lot of big faders and "knobs", and then also added a lot of config files for the most common plugins, this could work.
Got to do some research if this exists. ;-) Thanks for your input!
Play Pi5 is fun. But,
Since those programs are running on Windows. How is that comparing to the experiences on N100 or other box PC? Thanka!
I guess the emulator is adding a tiny bit of latency, but other than that, the whole thing runs and feels just like a standard PC. I'd recommend waiting for some more months before using this for production...
Thanks for this video Floyd! I wonder if we’ll be seeing guitarists taking rpi’s out instead of pedalboards one day with this tech! (:
Hi, thanks for watching! There are already open source pedals out there. Please search for "Daisy Seed Guitar Pedal" here on UA-cam. :-)
Good project.... Raspbery pi5 vs Orange Pi 5 pro????
Hi, thanks for watching! Would love to test the Orange PI 5 pro, but män, that thing is expensive. I'm not earning enough money with my videos to buy stuff like that just to show it in a video. ;-)
Can you use keyscape with this?
Also, if you used an external SSD drive would that help with the latency or no?
You propably could, but it's not ideal. Also, an SSD won't help with latency - it's the audio driver and sound system. Using another audio interface might help.
Please take a look at tiny portable PCs like this, they're less of a hassle to set up: ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.html
@@mr_floydst would a orange pi with 16gb or ram be better for handling a load?
You also have the option to give it more storage too?
I’m in the middle of trying to figure out an idea that would be stable low latency and be able to just plug and play almost.
Nice 🙂
Thank you! Cheers!
This is cool, posted to Sonicstate! Would it be possible to use the variety of VST hosts instead of Reaper? TobyBear MiniHost for example
Thank you very much - yes, of course, you can use whatever software you like to as a host. As long as the software doesn't try to do "close-to-the-hardware" stuff, the emulator will run just fine.
@@mr_floydst Awesome, thanks!
here we are 5 months later and the needle hasn't moved on drivers or updates to the WOR project. No support for RPI5 officially. :(
That's unfortunate. Seems you have to move to a Rockchip system for this.
very interesting, any VST host OS as a "closer to metal" alternative to the W11 install? that's when it would really start getting interesting.
Thanks! I'm afraid there isn't. One can run Linux but the X64/X86 emulators there are inferior. The manufacturers could compile their plugins for ARM of course, but they don't. So using Windows is really the most practicable solution for people who _really_ want to use a RasPi as a VST host for their plugins.
@@mr_floydstWhat about Carla ? Or am I mistaken in thinking there is a bootable version ?
@Death_By_Media not for Raspberry pi (but it's available as a package at least)
i recommend a cheap pen stylus for small touch screens like phones and stuff.. i cant live without one after trying one out
Thanks! Yes, that's helpful. I always leave that thing at home, though ;-)
Hi Floyd, I just watched Jeff Geerling's video "When Did Raspberry Pi become the villain?" and he compared the Pi5 to a mini PC which costs $120 and when you add up all accessories for the P5 it almost costs the same in the long run. It runs Windows 11 natively and shouldn't suffer from the issues the Pi has at the moment. I also came across a mini PC with a built in 5.5" touchscreen called the Higole 2 Pro. If i can find a mini pc with a 7" screen thats affordable i'll order one, otherwise i will use a normal mini PC and buy the Touchscreen separately.
Hi, I made a video on the Higole some months ago ua-cam.com/video/2-OdfBjW3Qk/v-deo.htmlsi=ZCaG2pLfAHP1YWPB
I should have mentioned it here. :) The PI5 is a good alternative if you already own one, but in it's current state, I'd not choose it over the Higole. That might change once all the drivers are available and most of the external hardware isn't needed any more.
@@mr_floydst oh wow, you're always one step ahead! Great videon 😁I ordered a Kasepe mini pc with Intel N95 processor, 16GB DDR5 RAM and 512GB SDD for €160 last night. And an Akntzcs Portable Monitor Touchscreen 10.1 Inch for €108 . Both the mini PC and monitor have a vesa mount so I can screw them together. I have a feeling that the VST Host you will be showing in your next video is Gig Performer! 😉
Thanks for taking the time to reply, your videos are awesome.
Regarding the Ethernet adapter: it is a shame that Windows 11 on the pi still doesn't have drivers for the internat Ethernet port 😞
Thanks for watching! Please give it some more time. I'm hugely impressed the BIOS was finished that quickly. I'm pretty certain will get network support sooner than later.
yo. let me be lazy. thanks.
@@marcinoo97 Of course. No need to rush :)
Sooo ... this is an interesting approach Rpi5 is fast enough to do Windows ... but most of it seems to be done via x86 emulation
Hope this one does have a longer live than the famous Windows/Office on Alpha project
Guessing you pushed some boundaries here ... thanks a lot for sharing all the details
Yes, all the plugins and the daw (and the drivers!) were running inside an emulation here. PI5 is quite powerful, it seems!
Would love to use this with a simple VST host that is touch screeen friendly rather than using a conplete DAW. Would be great for keyboard players in a live setting.
I'm going to do a video on how to get a touch-friendly UI for every VST plugin next week!
@@mr_floydst Oh that will be great! Thanks Floyd!
Has onboard audio supported been released yet?
Sadly, it very likely there never will be official Raspberry PI 5 drivers for Windows. So the answer is "no". :-(
@@mr_floydst I saw some homebrew drivers on GitHub. Don't know how good they are, though.
what about switching out a daw for a vst host? I know there are some on linux as well so maybe that would speed things up and make the process easier?
Hi! That wouldn't help a lot - the main "chunk" of the boot sequence is occupied by Windows. And without Windows, you won't be able to run X64/X86 software (I know there are emulators on Linux as well, but they are nowhere as advanced or easy to use as the one built into Windows).
@@mr_floydst oh that totally makes sense. I didn't think about the x86 emulation as being the important part of the process to use the plug-ins. I wonder if there is a way to use the m1 mac version.
How realistic is running 32bit/64bit windows DAW and VSTs inside more standard linux+wine configuration? I think we need less latency.
I think that's how most people who insist to not use Windows (or MacOS) would tackle this problem, albeit on an AMD/Intel system. You'll get superb results using that approach. This video is more of a report on how close you can get on a Raspberry Pi, because a lot of people are interested in that.
What about run the software through wine?
Wine can only emulate the Windows API, but not the X64/X86 code that's needed to run the actual effects / sound generation. There is an emulator for that, and it certainly works, but it's super complicated to set up and then it doesn't perform as nicely as the one in Windows.
@@mr_floydst ok good to know :) thanks
I'm new to RPi stuff, I specifically want it for live performance. Is there some way a guy can keep tabs on how low developers have gotten the latency before I take the plunge? I can't afford to go down the rabbit hole without knowing it won't be too slow for playing.
Thanks very much.
If you use a USB audio interface in Linux, latency will be around 10ms by default. You can shave some precious milliseconds off that by using a Real Time Kernel and throwing out all sound "daemons" that are not needed.
Hm, seems like a good video topic to me, thanks for your input. Please keep an eye on this channel. ;-)
@@mr_floydst Thanks very much for your quick reply. I'd be interested in seeing how low you can get the latency. I'd personally be using it as a synth or effect using Pure Data, with a MIDI controller for parameter changes.
If it's being emulated, that's really good performance imo. How is that possible??
Microsoft wanted to be on ARM some years ago (they released the Surface Pro X, for example). They knew they could only pull this off if they'd bring all the Windows Apps to that platform.
They seem to have quite the team to pull such things off, remember that Xbox 360 emulator on the Xbox One? That one was quite unbelievable, too.
Give the emulator powerful enough hardware and...
I suppose Linux and yabridge wouldn't work because of ARM, right?
That's right.
I used box86/box64 ( github.com/ptitSeb/box64 ) in a previous video, but while it kind of works, it's basically unusable. I'll try if this is better on PI5 and post my findings.
If we use RISCV, ARM doesn't get a dime off anything. :-)
Would it be possible to run Roland's galxias for windows?
Maybe? There's no demo, otherwise I'd try it...
can this pi run nvme ?
The PI5 itself can, but at the making of this video, the Windows drivers were not ready yet. I think I saw news this has changed already, but please confirm this yourself. ;-)
Why would anyone go backwards and put windoz on a Linux computer!?
Well, it's a question I've been getting over and over, can we run VST plugins on this. Here's a working, pragmatic answer. I'm not here for the politics. I love Linux and I don't hate Windows or MacOS.
I’m a Solution Architect by trade… Did I just see you demonstrate that for less than $500 (US) I could build something that is more powerful than an MPC?
I could use a USB velocity sensitive drum pad a a controller, the screen you have here, a Raspberry Pi5, and a battery (with power controller) and put it all in a 3D printed box (I have a 3D printer)…
You are right, this _is_ more powerful than an MPC, but MPC has a very well thought out user interface that allows you to get results quickly without dealing with hard-to-read screens. So while the hardware may be a winner, there's some R&D on the software side to be done.
@@mr_floydst Completely agree, and it was an oversight on my part not to include what you just said. Thanks for adding it!
I didnt understand. Can I use this to run vsts on reaper on Linux?
No. This video explains how to install Windows, which then emulates an X86/X64 CPU and lets you run Wintel/AMD software on the PI.
I made several videos on Reaper on Linux on PI in the past, e.g. ua-cam.com/video/O04HqwIwdco/v-deo.html or ua-cam.com/video/frUf6ANQi1k/v-deo.htmlsi=UttkLVsi9NvPIEna or ua-cam.com/video/iIcKMS_lxZ8/v-deo.htmlsi=DKA32JQqbqKa4Mq9, if you're looking for that.
Basically what I am looking for is for a device that lets me use software synths like if they were hardware. I was thinking about a raspberry pi with some midi in and out and to run on it the vsts
I still can't get over 5 amps for the pi 5
I used the original PI400 psu for this video.
hi so the x86 emulator is inside the windows image? you don't need to install the arm version of reaper for example?
Hi, thanks for watching! From the videos transscript: "Thanks to the seamless X64 emulation, I could install most plugins and software that's really for Intel or AMD architecture without problems. So I installed Reaper, and those MPC plugins I showed in an earlier video."
The emulator is baked into Windows and you won't even notice it running. Only very low-level drivers will refuse to work with it, but for example ASIO4ALL works without problems.
It's related to the snapdragon X machines that are launching soon. Just like Apple had to develop rosetta 2 to avoid software scarcity, M$ needed to make a way to open up the x86 software pool to the ARM processor users. They didn't before so the ARM processors failed back in the windows phone/arm processor surface tablet era.
There's no actual benefit to ARM for the user, it's not magic. You still have to execute instructions. The biggest gain is made for manufacturers, because they can buy an ARM license instead of buying whole chips from Intel/AMD. But seeing dual core > 1GHz RISC-V stuff coming out with GPIO pins, I2C, and forward facing mentality(same as arduino, RISC-V looks to be splitting cores to either face the user or the hardware) makes me think RPi's days are numbered in the hobbyist world unless they clean up their act. An embedded SBC only needs as much processing power as is required, so if you're going to keep trying to stick wanna-be general computing SBCs in you'll simply end up taxing everything(heat, power draw, complexity, cost) Currently, I'd just use an n100 mini pc from Amazon for this, you're really just putting a bunch of devices on the USB bus, not leveraging the GPIO/I2C capabilities of the RPi.
Would latency perhaps improve if you were using the hat for the ssd?
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your comment. This is just the win 64 version? The only dl's I see that mentions intel is mac os for intel and arm and some linux arm installs.
Do you think there will be versions of the boards you mention that have Pi resource placement, ie pins , cards and usb/ networking. I would love to see the zynthian v5 hardware with one of the boards you mention.@Grimmwoldds
@@unkleskunky There's tons of other boards. GPIO, UART, I2C, etc. Not only the host of RPi clones, but now RISC-V, and Arduino devices too. RPi didn't invent GPIO/I2C, they're just standard for low cost SBC/microcontrollers. USB/ethernet is more difficult, because it takes space on small boards(and the RPi is a big boy now, maybe too big), but most will have at least 1 host USB-A port and one data/power USB-C port. Wifi is getting to be a staple.
The biggest problem is that they're all different(especially RISC-V, but a mango pi or beaglebone is not an RPi) Pi already has a massive user base supporting them and creating code/use cases for RPi, which is the only thing keeping them afloat. You can't just pick up a github project for an RPi and stick it on a different SBC.
Does ASIO4all works?
Yes. You can see it in the video, though I didn't mention it explicitly.
OK Inspector Clouseau
I never expected to be able to say that, but ha, I'm too young to get that reference / joke. ;-)
@@mr_floydst peter sellers, pink panther. i love your vids. you are in your 40s? if not my apologies. it was a good reference. watch pink panther when inspecter clouseau interrogates a suspect. peter sellers is a master of comedy. also check out dr strangelove. keep up the good work!
@@mr_floydst love the vids. im on win11 > rpi5 now haha
Maybe makes more sense to buy an older x86 Surface Tablet 🤷♂
Yes, of course. If you want to use AMD/Intel/Windows software, the best way is naturally to use the platform it was designed for. This video is for people who want to know how far RasPi has come.
Your framerate has been off for a huge portion of your last video's. Has anyone mentioned this before? Makes it quite unwatchable for me even though I love the videos
My videos have been 4k, 25fps for years. I could change to, say, 1920x1080, 50fps, but I think being able to read the labels and to zoom in is much more important for this type of content than having a buttery smooth panning.
Any second opinions on this?
@@mr_floydst That's very interesting, 25fps should be plenty! I thought it was something on my end after reading your comment, but after scrolling through the video frame by frame, I notice a ton of dropped frames. You can use the arrow keys to scroll through individual frames. When doing that every 2nd or 3rd frame is a duplicate of the previous, meaning an effective framerate that's more in the range of 15fps (this can be seen very clearly around 9:43). I wonder if you see the same thing. And I wonder where it goes wrong.
Oh, I can see that now! Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It's not there in my source material. Hm. Will investigate.
Just an update on this - seems my Video Editor had a bug in it's MP4 codec. Brought it to the attention of the developers who indeed had a hotfix ready! So future videos will have a stable frame rate. (The next one might still be choppy because it's already in the box)
@@mr_floydst aaaawesome mate! Thanks for updating me, taking it seriously, the whole lot. I've been put off by watching some of your previous content because of this, so I just listened while doing something else, but thanks a whole lot! Your video's already have great quality, so this is the last step.
ilok is so trash. i simply just dont use any plugin that requires it. i tried a long time ago but after reinstalling windows and being unable to ever use the plugins again i decided ill stick to FOSS
iLok is awful. Yet, some rather widely used apps and plugins rely on it...
@@mr_floydst if i didnt already have a big collection of non drm plugins and had a collection of iLok plugins i could see figuring out how to make it sustainable
32ms latency.... good luck with live performance...:/
Thanks for watching - yep, that's nothing to write home about, but as I said in the video, these are early days. In my opinion, it's at least worth keeping an eye on.
Could you reduce it by using an audio interface? Or are there not many compatible drivers available for them?
@@adriansmithmusic I think we will see improvements over the course of the year, as I said in the video - the UEFI BIOS has been released a couple of weeks ago only.
@@mr_floydst it's very exciting. I plan to use it in college for doing covers of songs, especially 80s stuff. Being able to load up the original presents on Arturias V collection, Native Instruments access and the AIR Plugons which I originally bought for the Akai Force will be spectacular. Thanks for showing it to the world.
@tresporros come on, let's be sensible by not unnecessarily picking on what's obvious... You come across as a typical hater (not saying you ARE)
Just genuinely trying to help mate ;)
Merci !
Thank you very much!
No windows pls
I'll show interesting things regardless of which system they're running on in the future, be it Linux, Windows, Android, IOS, MacOS, ... In my opinion, the emulator in Win11 deserves some praise. ;-)