Drill holes in the top bar preferably the size of a bamboo Barbecue sqewer and push them to the bottom of the frame and this will help to strengthen the comb . Plus when you get two perfectly built combs always put your new frames between two well built combs and they will build that one perfect too.!
I am a beekeeper from the Netherlands. Cool video. I would like to build my own top bar hive one day, but i am still gathering information on sizes etc. Maybe a small tip: i stopped using the smoker with my bees. All i do now is spray some sugarwater on them with a plant sprayer. suger / water 1:1. They get calm as well as with the smoker.
What may have happened is that the bees have offset the comb due to your deep starter strips. The bees may have overcompensated as they were building around the strips instead of on the bar itself. Great job. Thank you for helping all of us learn more about top bar hives.
The deep starter strips were an idea that did not work well. Thanks for your ideas and input. Its important to listen to what the bees teach us and I enjoy experimenting. I'm going to try wax strips attached in the future. Thanks for sharing.
A good thing to try is drill a hole or holes in the top bar preferably the size of a bamboo Barbecue sqewer and push them to the bottom of the frame or where the bottom of the wax will be and it strengthens the comb! You can also add them after the wax is built.
What works good for Bridge comb is a old fire poker the one with the 90° on the end then sharpen it then start at the bottom of the comb and pull up then there is no chance of pushing comb off the bar.
It might help if you get some hive tools made specifically for top bar hives, plus a long knife. In my climate what you have done would result in the comb collapsing off the top bar. Not sure about reversing the combs either.
No, I don't think so. I believe the bees made the comb crooked to maintain bee space. Let me explain. The bees will build their next comb right next to an existing comb. When they build they maintain space between the combs. This space is enough for them to move past each other on adjacent combs. Beekeepers have long recognized that they maintain this space and came up with the term "bee space". This space is approximately 3/8" inch. The rule seemed to be if a beekeeper leaves a 3/8" gap, the bees will leave this space alone, A wider gap and the bees will place wax in the space, narrower and the bees may fill the space with propolis. Langstroth recognized "bee space" and successfully created a hive where the frames are placed to leave "bee space" between the frames and the box which allows you to remove the frames. A huge improvement over earlier hives that required you to destroy the hive to get the honey out. This is why the most common hive is the langstroth hive or similar that allow the beekeeper to remove the frames. To get back to your question, for a top bar beehive to work with removable bars, the top bar beekeeper has to be diligent about correcting crooked combs which attach at the top of one bar and run crookedly and attach to another bar. We also want to use top bar widths that match the typical thickness of a comb. When there is a heavy nectar flow on, if there is nothing preventing the bees from building the comb deeper, they will make the comb quite deep, to hold all the nectar. If a small comb (a comb that does not reach from wall to wall) is on a adjacent comb, the comb will get a bit of a c-shape to it as viewed from above. Because of bee space, they will keep this c shape pattern on future combs and possibly even make it worse until cross combing occurs. Ideally when you see new combs develop you will try to place the new comb between two fully drawn out straight combs so the new comb is created straight. Wyatt Mangum is an expert top bar beekeeper and he starts all of his top bars with a strip of foundation to prevent cross combing. Langstroth beekeepers typically use foundation in their frames which prevents cross combing. I've decided to let the bees draw out their own comb but this means I need to stick my nose in my hives to straighten out comb. My approach creates more work for me and is not the simplest approach. Boy I just started typing and I couldn't stop. Hope I answered your question. Larry
Mostly good info except that is not the reason the Langstroth is the most common hive. Not long after it's development commercial honey producers of course saw the beauty of the design. However as they started moving frames from hive to hive, etc. We began to see the spread of new diseases among bee's which brought about bee inspectors, etc. Which brought about laws which required all hives to have removable frames for inspection. Which made beekeeping suddenly uncommon as langstroth hives are not cheap. Since then we've had 2 hives developed to have removable frames but lower the cost. The Warre which is half the cost of a Langstroth, and the Top Bar which can be built for $40 or less.
The design I initially copied had sloping sides. This seems to be common on top bar hives. I think the bees would be more likely to attach their comb to vertical walls. 1-3/8" width bars seems about right. The bars all touch each other and form the ceiling of the hive. There should be no gap between bars. Hope I answered your question.
Bees will usually not attach comb to the floor, so if you slope the sides, they will not attache to the side believing the slope sides are the ‘floor’ of the hive. Frame hives are ok to be square because the entire frame comes out, but in a frameless bar system Its all about fooling them.
1-3/8" I started by going to Lowes and purchasing cedar strip boards which are about 1-3/8 x 3/4. I just cut these to length. I've had trouble finding narrow boards recently that weren't all twisted so recently I have been ripping them. I use cedar only because I originally found them just the width I needed. I stay with cedar because I like the appearance. I'm sure any wood material would work.
I agree Don, in the video, he never brings that up. Perhaps the bars are level, but we don't know for sure. One thing is sure. If the bars are not level and plum, the comb will follow suite and cause a mess.
Even if the box is level and plumb, the bees can still build curved combs. It's just what they do sometimes. I've had hives that built straight, flat combs, and I've had hives that they wanted to curve every comb.
I think your comb guides are making the problem worse not better. The reason bee'ing is they do 1 of 2 things. They either build next to the guide which puts the comb off center, or they build down off the guide instead of the bar which makes the comb weaker. I see this in almost every hive unless the guide is made from plastic foundation. I find it better to just have the bottom of the bar rough, and let the bee's build off of it. I just take a really coarse rasp and hit the bottom of the bars. It gives them more surface area to attach to, the rougher the better. The guides do help keep them straight but where the guide stops they start curving, and sometimes don't even attach to the bar above. Plus the off center problem.
Jim, I think you may be correct. I'm learning and experimenting. I'm going to attach a thin strip of wax foundation using melted wax in the future. Thanks for your comments. Larry
All comb will cross and fuse together sometimes it happens. Wire will keep the comb straight and not fuse generally...you should be great full for what you have looks good..if anything it's your fault not theirs..
That was quiet a mess you had made man geezers...you got them all pissed man. You must be a novice by the way you are doing your work man..moreover you need to know how to get your comb out gently and slower..killing the bees when you extract the comb and putting back the comb should be the same way always. By putting in the comb backwards will get the bees frustrated because of the GPS system that they have...but generally you didn't do so bad for the untrained eye for me it was a massacre lol
That is some clean bee keeper protective gear.
Drill holes in the top bar preferably the size of a bamboo Barbecue sqewer and push them to the bottom of the frame and this will help to strengthen the comb . Plus when you get two perfectly built combs always put your new frames between two well built combs and they will build that one perfect too.!
I am a beekeeper from the Netherlands. Cool video. I would like to build my own top bar hive one day, but i am still gathering information on sizes etc. Maybe a small tip: i stopped using the smoker with my bees. All i do now is spray some sugarwater on them with a plant sprayer. suger / water 1:1. They get calm as well as with the smoker.
Thank you Ken Thompson !!! Great idea! I will do all my frames that way !
What may have happened is that the bees have offset the comb due to your deep starter strips. The bees may have overcompensated as they were building around the strips instead of on the bar itself. Great job. Thank you for helping all of us learn more about top bar hives.
The deep starter strips were an idea that did not work well. Thanks for your ideas and input. Its important to listen to what the bees teach us and I enjoy experimenting. I'm going to try wax strips attached in the future. Thanks for sharing.
A good thing to try is drill a hole or holes in the top bar preferably the size of a bamboo Barbecue sqewer and push them to the bottom of the frame or where the bottom of the wax will be and it strengthens the comb! You can also add them after the wax is built.
We need more to learn how much is the best of luck in finding out about the possibility of working in the future
Great demonstration and explaination. Thank you.
What works good for Bridge comb is a old fire poker the one with the 90° on the end then sharpen it then start at the bottom of the comb and pull up then there is no chance of pushing comb off the bar.
What is better...is simply a fire. is the poorest apiary system...
Good
It might help if you get some hive tools made specifically for top bar hives, plus a long knife. In my climate what you have done would result in the comb collapsing off the top bar. Not sure about reversing the combs either.
Very cool.
James Connors Thank you
👍👍
Do you think they did that because the following board is too far from where they are building?
No, I don't think so. I believe the bees made the comb crooked to maintain bee space. Let me explain. The bees will build their next comb right next to an existing comb. When they build they maintain space between the combs. This space is enough for them to move past each other on adjacent combs. Beekeepers have long recognized that they maintain this space and came up with the term "bee space". This space is approximately 3/8" inch. The rule seemed to be if a beekeeper leaves a 3/8" gap, the bees will leave this space alone, A wider gap and the bees will place wax in the space, narrower and the bees may fill the space with propolis. Langstroth recognized "bee space" and successfully created a hive where the frames are placed to leave "bee space" between the frames and the box which allows you to remove the frames. A huge improvement over earlier hives that required you to destroy the hive to get the honey out. This is why the most common hive is the langstroth hive or similar that allow the beekeeper to remove the frames. To get back to your question, for a top bar beehive to work with removable bars, the top bar beekeeper has to be diligent about correcting crooked combs which attach at the top of one bar and run crookedly and attach to another bar. We also want to use top bar widths that match the typical thickness of a comb. When there is a heavy nectar flow on, if there is nothing preventing the bees from building the comb deeper, they will make the comb quite deep, to hold all the nectar. If a small comb (a comb that does not reach from wall to wall) is on a adjacent comb, the comb will get a bit of a c-shape to it as viewed from above. Because of bee space, they will keep this c shape pattern on future combs and possibly even make it worse until cross combing occurs. Ideally when you see new combs develop you will try to place the new comb between two fully drawn out straight combs so the new comb is created straight. Wyatt Mangum is an expert top bar beekeeper and he starts all of his top bars with a strip of foundation to prevent cross combing. Langstroth beekeepers typically use foundation in their frames which prevents cross combing. I've decided to let the bees draw out their own comb but this means I need to stick my nose in my hives to straighten out comb. My approach creates more work for me and is not the simplest approach. Boy I just started typing and I couldn't stop. Hope I answered your question. Larry
Mostly good info except that is not the reason the Langstroth is the most common hive. Not long after it's development commercial honey producers of course saw the beauty of the design. However as they started moving frames from hive to hive, etc. We began to see the spread of new diseases among bee's which brought about bee inspectors, etc.
Which brought about laws which required all hives to have removable frames for inspection. Which made beekeeping suddenly uncommon as langstroth hives are not cheap. Since then we've had 2 hives developed to have removable frames but lower the cost.
The Warre which is half the cost of a Langstroth, and the Top Bar which can be built for $40 or less.
One change always creates another change and so goes life. I've yet to try a Warre but I may some day.
How come you don't use the rectangular shaped comb bars? Also aren't they too close together?
The design I initially copied had sloping sides. This seems to be common on top bar hives. I think the bees would be more likely to attach their comb to vertical walls. 1-3/8" width bars seems about right. The bars all touch each other and form the ceiling of the hive. There should be no gap between bars. Hope I answered your question.
NNY Bees yes thanks for answering! Bee keeping is so interesting! 💖🙋🏼🐝💖
Bees will usually not attach comb to the floor, so if you slope the sides, they will not attache to the side believing the slope sides are the ‘floor’ of the hive. Frame hives are ok to be square because the entire frame comes out, but in a frameless bar system Its all about fooling them.
Are your bars wide enough? 1-3/8" or 1-1/2"?
1-3/8" I started by going to Lowes and purchasing cedar strip boards which are about 1-3/8 x 3/4. I just cut these to length. I've had trouble finding narrow boards recently that weren't all twisted so recently I have been ripping them. I use cedar only because I originally found them just the width I needed. I stay with cedar because I like the appearance. I'm sure any wood material would work.
+NNY Bees Thanks
I use 1-1/2 bars. I never tried 1-3/8, but I find the bees always build off course in the beginning.
what about just making sure your box is level and plumb?
I agree Don, in the video, he never brings that up. Perhaps the bars are level, but we don't know for sure. One thing is sure. If the bars are not level and plum, the comb will follow suite and cause a mess.
Even if the box is level and plumb, the bees can still build curved combs. It's just what they do sometimes. I've had hives that built straight, flat combs, and I've had hives that they wanted to curve every comb.
Im from europe and i dont understand this type of hives. How can u supose to take the honey
Atra23 ua-cam.com/video/VlLqKft6Sp8/v-deo.html
NNY Bees but thats terrible. How much bees need to work to get that honeycomb again
Atra23 The bees need to work hard to replace the wax. The wax is a more valuable product for me than the honey.
سلام عليكم 👍👍👍👍👍🐝🌹🔔
Level the hive...
The yellow jackets come out of nowhere around my hives and attack the bees. I kill them every time I get the chance.
I think your comb guides are making the problem worse not better. The reason bee'ing is they do 1 of 2 things. They either build next to the guide which puts the comb off center, or they build down off the guide instead of the bar which makes the comb weaker.
I see this in almost every hive unless the guide is made from plastic foundation. I find it better to just have the bottom of the bar rough, and let the bee's build off of it. I just take a really coarse rasp and hit the bottom of the bars. It gives them more surface area to attach to, the rougher the better.
The guides do help keep them straight but where the guide stops they start curving, and sometimes don't even attach to the bar above. Plus the off center problem.
Jim, I think you may be correct. I'm learning and experimenting. I'm going to attach a thin strip of wax foundation using melted wax in the future. Thanks for your comments. Larry
muy buen video, un saludo y si quieres pasate por mi canal, me suscribo el tuyo, un saludo.
There is no need to be worried about the shape..you need wire to accomplish your good comb shape
The wire will keep the bees on a straight line and get the comb you desire...wire
All comb will cross and fuse together sometimes it happens. Wire will keep the comb straight and not fuse generally...you should be great full for what you have looks good..if anything it's your fault not theirs..
The stripes of wood are not going to work as well as wire..
Bees by the way don't follow plans dude.lol..
You squashing alot of bees too that's why they are not so happy..
The plan to follow is wire..the comb will stay straight with wire man..not their fault but yours..
That was quiet a mess you had made man geezers...you got them all pissed man.
You must be a novice by the way you are doing your work man..moreover you need to know how to get your comb out gently and slower..killing the bees when you extract the comb and putting back the comb should be the same way always. By putting in the comb backwards will get the bees frustrated because of the GPS system that they have...but generally you didn't do so bad for the untrained eye for me it was a massacre lol