@@KeeperoftheChronicles Yes me too. I literally cried. I was so scared for him he might have to use the knife and didn't know they would do in the tv show. also it kinda of reminded me of the first time he chanted when they were raining down on trollocks in book 1 which wasn't in the s1. felt so good.
Yup! "Dovie'andi se tovya sagain!!!" I didn't realise till nearly 30secs later that I had tears coming down my face. Like the first time seeing Moiraine channel while Lan was fighting the trolleys in S1, but 10 fold! Amazing!!!
Lol the scene where Rand confronts Turak and his guards! I was like “yeasss we gonna see some heron sword on heron sword fightinggggg… and nope.” It was like that scene in Indiana Jones where the crazy guy with the two swords comes out swing his swords all around while screaming and Indy just caps his ass. I literally lol’d.
Also it would have felt weird, Turak was a blademaster, and Rand barely knows how to hold a sword on the right side, so he just had to use the power imo.
If Rand had pulled the sword and engaged Turak I'd have been disappointed in Rafe. There's been no scenes of Lan & Rand training. Such a scene would have felt so forced, it would have made the entire Episode feel false.
@@hellgast0 Why dont you keep you negative comments to yourself. 1) Rafe is not making the story alone, why does it make you guys feel so great to attack people personally, did your mothers not teach you any manners, is this how you like to be treated?? 2) Sword training is coming, it's been confirmed in interviews, just the storyline didnt provide it this season. Why are y'all so hung up on having a page by page adaptation, how boring would that be?? The important plot points are there or coming, just maybe not in the order you expect, and after all Amazon is saying 8x8 (if all are greenlit), so to make 15 bloody volumes fit, there needs to be some adaptation, just use your brain a bit on whats feasible - how large a cast can you carry over 8 seasons, how many locations can you build per season etc etc. Geez.
Moghedian always seemed to me as someone who was older in the books, granted 3000 years, but where someone like lanfear might be 3300 years old, moghedian seemed more like 3700, like a plump old widow spider.
I love how Lanfear is such a delicious character, that we're wondering if the woman who casually murders people by popping their heads like grapes to steal their horse, is "really" Dark deep down inside :D
What I gathered so far is that she is willing to go against the dark one to help Rand but everyone else is just a stepping stone or obstacle. She only cares for Rand or his counterpart since they shared many lives together.
Yeah, she's just removing obstacles to getting what she wants in the most expedient manner at her disposal. I wouldn't consider her evil, just amoral. Somewhat like Ishy. Which is what makes for a good villain. He was a bad guy, but I was really sorry to see him go. @@Krakenjack1
@@Krakenjack1 Yep - this is why Elayne's "I like to thinker with things" line back when we first met her was such a great nod to future events. (Though she actually learns how to identify and, later, create ter'angreal -- it's Egwene who learns the lost secret of weaving cuendillar.)
I like how Loial's line on how the heroes of this age are responsible of the legends of tomorrow, suits very well with Moiraine's independent realization that she can't just hope that a banner will appear by itself, she can do it herself.
Yes! Lanfear did hint for her to fly the banner when it’s time before they separated. That’s why I think it was able to click to easily when Moraine was in the moment.
Few things: Totally agree on Nyneave, was so sad to see her basically reduced to a prop all episode, especially because she and Elayn weren't the ones to save Egwene. On the subject of Flicker-Flicker, i'm not a book reader yet but just given what I know about how they've reordered events in this show, I could see them having Flicker-Flicker happen later in the series at a moment where Rand is dealing more with the weight of being the dragon and the price of his potential failure, so that scene hits home a bit more. IMO from what i've heard about it, it seems like an easy scene to move somewhere else. Also just as a side note: as a show-only watcher, i really had no trouble believing that Moraine could do the channeling she did this episode. Moraine is very powerful, we saw that in season 1 during the battle in the two-rivers, and she was able to give her full attention to just channeling since Lan was protecting her. Imo that scene worked, at least for me it did.
I am a non-booker reader and I felt the same way about Moraines channeling....I thought she was pretty powerful like in season 1 with the trollicks....I hope I spelled those right 😮
Im a book reader and I think it was fine to have her channel this way, yes it could be argued that it's stretching disbelief even for what we know of the magic in both the books and the show but i think its sufficiently balanced out by the long cast time and Rosamund's physical delivery, we're visually being informed that this is a really big attack with a windup and probably necessitates a lot of concentration on her part to perform, like i genuinely think the average audience member will generally understand what's happening with her here
It is said on WOT wiki that Moiraine, Siuan, and some few other aes sedais are the strongest Aes sedais of the present era. Except ofcourse caduane but they all think she dead.
I’m a fan who watched the first season, fell in love with the characters, then read the series, and am currently rereading the books. I’m a fan of both the show and the books. I am so, so happy with the second season. The finale was beyond amazing! Now I can get back to my reading.
You read _and are rereading_ the _entire_ series _between the first and second seasons?!_ Holy crap, you're one hell of a reader --- I'm currently on my third read and have been so for months now (... though, in fairness, I'm currently in the midst of the Path of Daggers/Winter's Heart/Crossroads of Twilight doldrums :P )
I also love how the whole time egwene was ‘freeing herself’, she was so fearless and knew what she was doing, yet we could see that so many emotions were going through her head. The fact that she had finally killed her sul’dam, she was free, rennas gory death, AND THAT SHE LITERALLY FELT DEATH TWO TIMES OVER. And the fact that she had no time to process, was knocked out, yet she had enough strength to weave together, and continuously weave back a shield strong enough to hold back Ishamael like…. I love egwene so much
I cried for Hopper(it's so hard to see it on screen even if I had expected to see it). I teared up with Mat. I squealed in excitement with Moghedien!!!! Overall, it's great. I'm excited for season 3!
I've been watching the episodes alone right when they drop, then re-watching again the next day with my husband. I told him he'd know the exact moment that Hopper died (he's also a book reader, though more casual than I am) even though he wasn't watching with me, because of how I was going to react. I was right. This episode did not let me down, I loved it, but I've been dreading that Hopper moment all season.
OMG I have done the same. I watched the episodes as soon as they dropped and then later in the day with my husband. We are both big fans of the series and we think that they have done an amazing job. :)
thats a neat distinction...we havent really seen anyone travel yet...Lanfear brings Matt to Falme but we dont see the act, and them Moghedian just dissappears into a shadow, that HAS to be the true power...for those that dont know it is the power that stems from the dark one as opposed to the One Power, which they tried to bore into and released the Dark One
Wasn't it the same type of traveling with Lanfear & Rand in the ways? (Or is it spelled waze?) After she pushed Lan & moraine out the door didn't Lanfear instantly travel to the city with Rand?
@@gerbertron3226I think they're going to have to make the distinction: the portals created via "standard" Travelling, with the One Power, are actually a fairly major element of later story arcs --- whole armies are moved through them. Nightcrawler-style bamfing just wont' work with a lot of the future scenes. Also, I will just add... "DEATH GATES" :D
I ugly cried in the Moiraine and Lan bond scene and mat blowing the horn. This episode was insane. My only criticism is the lack of Rand and Nyneave agency.
I think they're letting each of the major characters pull focus so that the audience builds a relationship with them. This season was super heavy on Egwene and letting us see her be forged into who she will become. We finally got a glimpse of Mat and how his story is about to start developing. I'm laying odds that Aiel and Aviendha are very significant in Season 3. Rand is still a bystander in the story so far, it's all happening TO him, he's not driving the story as the Dragon leading to the Last Battle....yet.
Me too! (with Lan and Moiraine’s scene). Their deep, platonic friendship means a lot to me, and I’m so glad to see that finally expressed again after so much… uh… turmoil, shall we say?!
I got angry and got whiplash with the inconsistencies of the character of "good" guys in this series. A few examples: 1. Moiraine (and other Aei Sedai) was so weak that she struggled with some battling Trollocs, then had the immense power to sink a great sea armada from afar? Come on writers, define their powers: don't tune them up and down as plot conveniences. 2. What are the warders? Are they toy boys? Junior lieutenants? Glorified enamored puppies? Strong men with agencies? Part of management or drone workers? Writers could not really define them in two whole seasons. 3. The characters of the five main protagonists vacillate from being like sniffling and lost high school kids to physically great fighters to people with taser-like powers to heroes with visions of high clarity to being uncertain, bumbling and weak idiots. Writers, define your characters well!
I'm glad you're on board with Rand's takedown of Turak reminded me of Logain S1E4 and felt appropriate to me - and I liked it when Rand asked Elayne her name - no Daughter-heir
Oh yes, I am so happy about that, when she said "Elayne" and then they kept showing her face I was thinking if she says "the Daughter Heir of Andor" now I'm gonna bite my pillow apart 🥴🥴but luckily she did not 😅
yes thankfully she did not - I think it sets up their liaison better than the books (falls in Garden etc) but kept her healing him - and love Blossoms. the way they framed her face -
I thought the episode was excellent. The stakes were so high from beginning to end. I totally teared up when Mat blew the horn. And I think we will still see the snakes and foxes.
Not watched this video so I'll update it I've missed something, but I got the impression from the episode that the horn gave Mat his memories (cus of the whole yelling in old tongue), so not sure a) why they'd need snakes and foxes, and b) why they'd change how Mat got his memories if they plan on doing snakes and foxes anyway
@@bobbob-mr3jcNo way Mat keeps using the 'Shadar Logoth dagger on a stick' as a weapon. That would be ridiculous, IMO. He'll have to get a proper ashanderei later in the show, methinks.
Before i consume this video, i want to take a moment and just absolutely simp for that moghedien scene, that delivery had such adorable psycho vibes and i loved every moment of it, im so looking forward to that actress's performance in season 3 Edit: i also very much liked how Mat dealt with the dagger, and from the writers perspective it's a perfect excuse for a precursor wespon to his Ashandarei; they're also doing a good job so far of having the Aiel veil their faces for killing
The attention to detail when wrapping the dagger to the staff was interesting. Mat never touched the hilt even with 1 layer of cloth on it. At least from how it was edited
I'm worried that this IS the Ashandarei...I use to tie knives to sticks when I was 10. It didn't hold up to stabbing mattresses.... Agree on Moghedien,. With her and Lanfear, I'm not sure I can resist the Dark.
Ya same! Trying to tie anything to whatever doesn't really work in the long run... So that was a WEIRD solution. How they solved the dagger was a bit weird to, imo... ANYWAY, don't forget, Graendael was named earlier in the show. The "vessel of pleasure". Absolutely loved Ishamael to. So I'm more or less already a dark friend. It all comes down to who "the boys" are, and how they solve Mazrim Taim. If they do that right, I'll convert.@@YZedMB
@@YZedMBI think it's more likely this is like a foreshadowing of the actual ashandarei, so when he gets it, viewers will go "Ohhhh like when he made that one with the dagger 😮"
Knowing that they filmed s2&s3 back to back I think making Nynaeve useless was on purpose, considering the Moghidiene ending. This season she grew to understand why she would want to learn from Aes Sedai + respect them, hopefully setting up some cool s3 stuff
I think the sacrifice Ryma & her warder made to keep Elayne & Nynaeve safe from the suldame made a deep impression on Nynaeve. That and being told by Elayne that her methods were useless has made Nynaeve question herself. I'm sure she will bounce back & be her assertive self, but at this moment she's shaken.
I also think it's very intentional. What she went through this season is overlooked and overshadowed by what we saw with Egwene. She lost a child, the person she confided in was Black Ajah and kidnapped her, and her inability to control the One Power led to Ryma's capture. She really hasn't been the same since her Accepted test. She had periods of time where she went through this type of stuff in the books, but I think a future confrontation may just break her out of her lack of confidence. :)
Non book reader here...your videos (reactions, unraveleds, WOT 101, etc.) have helped to make me an even BIGGER fan of the show than I would have been if I was only watching the episodes. Your passion for the books and this world is infectious! I'm looking forward to all of your future videos. They are a great way to fill the time between seasons of the show. When I do a rewatch I always include watching your unraveled videos after each episode so I can get a deeper understanding of what's going on and what I may have missed. As a content creator around a TV show myself, I know how much time is needed to create timely content while the show is releasing episodes so please know how much all of your hard work is appreciated. Thank you again!!
It's funny because I feel the opposite to you with the Snakes and Foxes thing. I think they're foreshadowing it rather than trying to write around it. I feel MORE confident it is going to happen. That being said, I think we'll only get ONE trip through a doorway, not two. I also think they foreshadowed it with the Mushroom Trip Tea - seeing Mat hanging framed by what looks like a red doorway .. I'm hopeful lol.
Well should get one doorway, and one tower trip, where he meets both of them. That doorway trip has to be in Rhuidean. It is one of the places like Falme here. It is the third of three key locations in the prophecies, and the only one of the three described, not named. @@questionsroxelane3643
We can always hope! The Snakes and Foxes, and everything around that, is maybe my favourite thing from the books. Possibly beaten the wolves and everything with that. With the Snakes and Foxes comes the Tower of Ghenjei too. But I fear they messed that up with making a certain aes sedai useless once already. And I can't think of that without being angered by HOW they named an episode Daes Dae'Mar without bringing back Thom!
Yes! We also had Mat missing an eye in Nynaeve's accepted vision, which I hope is foreshadowing rather than just a nod to the books. Agree that they could wrap it into a combined trip for the show
I actually liked how Rand killed all those guys with the one power. I think he didn't get enough sword training yet to win a duel and it would have been silly for him to win a sword fight against an actual master. This also showed how much stronger it is to fight with the one power.
yup i also like rand using the power moment, it showed how powerful dragon is compared to others. also when in the begining poor shamael was threatening with his friends, lews was like i already got em and shamael was like please. not from the book, but it was excellent moment. they did a fine job i think, if they tried to emulate book, they would've had to do 23 episodes in each season i would've loved it but quality wouldn't have been there.
@@HB-zt1ed We haven't gotten much Mad Rand yet. Maybe they're going to tie the sword training to fighting off madness... Plus he needs a new sword. Still not sure how a source heated iron sword, rather than Callandor, could turn a forsaken to dust.
@@svenkropelinrieger1688 True, they didn't explain his channeling or why Ishamael just stood there. Guessing they combined the fights from book two and book three for time. Rand definitely needs training that is shown on screen to help the audience understand what he is and isn't capable of. If for no other reason than helping the audience tell when he is getting more proficient at it. In general the fighting and magic systems feel super inconsistent in the show. Ie the dagger, which seemed to have similar effects as Rand's sword at the end, even though Matt doesn't channel.
FR! So glad they changed the freaking directors. This was such a great episode and tied so many things together. The structure was a bit off but other than that it was 10/10!
The show is following the paths of the books in terms of quality: Book 1 was always a bit derivative; Book 2 was a _huge_ step up, and the quality kept increasing through to at least (in my opinion) Book 6 (which is my personal favourite, though I believe most people hold Book 4 as the best... which, coincidentally, is what season 3 will be adapting :) )
@@zyonhenderson67Huh-what? Lord of Chaos is book 6, which I said was my favourite of the series, particularly because of Dumai's Wells. ("Asha'man! _KILL!"_ )
@tigraine5714 that was definitely her next to Uno. I'm curious if they've actually cast her yet or if that was just a place holder actor in the mean time. I remember not expecting to see her again after reading the Great Hunt, it was a delightful surprise. Maybe the show is planning to pull off the same kind of surprise by not making a big deal of her in this episode.
I literally rolled my eyes when Mat said, “I remember!” I don’t think they could have shoved that into the story in a cheesier way. It felt on par with a CW series (and not a very good one). 🙄
They did Ingtar dirty! His redemption was so poignant in the books. Since they screwed him I will say it here: May you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand, and may the last embrace of the mother welcome you home. I felt his redemption was so Important to Rand, it showed him that yes you can come back to the light.
@wotoholicaussie5086 it's a sentiment that doesn't mean anything. That line was only for book readers, but why would any of them even care when his story was completely nonexistent?
I never read the books and I truly enjoyed the show. I come here to understand some things from the shows and it gives me more than I would find. I believe people who read the books should always take a chill pills and just enjoy the adaptations in every show/movie they watch.
@@Saa_la I agree and unfortunately most shows/movies are judged based on the books like the accuracy of it while I may agree to some of it based on the type of book but I always like to enjoy the show from the actors/actresses, special FX and scripts.
when he had his moment of realisation and said "i remember" was the first breaking point for me! we have been blessed by donal. I was a barney stan from before season 1 but donal absolutely delivered everything possible@@rhysfriesen
@WheelUpTime Barney was superb as troubled Mat. I remember seeing the possibility of him delivering full charisma Mat but Donal has the natural sparkle in his eyes and grin. I hope he'll get his hat in the show!
@@peopleschampiii584 I thought I was the only one thinking this episode is not good. They tried to tell too much in one episode resulting a chaotic storytelling and lame fighting scenes and weak endings for characters.
Nice review. Thank you.. As a none reader of the books, i was overcome with joy when Eugene got free. When she faced down Ishamael that was also 🔥.. Im so ready for season 3
Just want to say I really appreciate your positive outlook on the show. I am just so overjoyed that wheel of time finally got picked up and has a show. Yes it would be awesome for it to all be just as long and exactly like the books but we have to be happy with what we get and keep a positive outlook. And you, my friend, are doing that. And It's very refreshing coming from many of the other videos and comments that I've seen. I just hope everyone shows the show continued support so we will get a full series and no cancelations. That the scariest thing for me. So once again, thanks my man!
Wow Lauren. Almost at 35k. Congrat’s my friend! Well-deserved channel growth. OMG Hopper. 😭 😭 😭 That one shot with Hopper on the ground bleeding giving Perrin puppy-eyes, and then of Hopper soaring toward T’A’R. Oh man. I was watching a reaction video today, and my wife and daughter heard me sniffle. My wife said, “Hopper again?” 🤣
That's not how people felt about the first season of WoT. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they can treat RoP in a similar fashion and turn the ship around the way they have with WoT.
Lauren, thanks for all that you do!! I’ve learned a lot here these past couple of seasons and rewatching videos as I read the books has been a bonus. Please don’t burn out! We have plenty of time during hiatus to unravel/discuss and theorize.
I cried several times this episode....for hopper....for Matt...for Uno. I am glad I've never read the books... The expectations of the book readers are sometimes a bit much. It's an adaptation. I appreciate this channel because it is not negative.. Keep the reviews coming. ❤ Sit back and enjoy.
Will you read the books? Don't know how to translate this from Swedish to English, but did the show give you a "bloodied tooth" to read the books? Bloodied tooth meaning - are you ready to learn/experience more.
@@zv8381 afraid because you think watching the show will be worse when you know the books? because if so i think you have nothing to worry about. you already have the right mindset, this is an adaptation. I've seen a lot of really negative reviews from book readers, and it always baffles me too. The books are incredibly deep, Jordan's writing is extremely descriptive, to an absurd degree sometimes. In one book he uses almost a full page to describe a dress which then is never mentioned again. Point being, i dont understand what some of these people expect, there's no possible way to include everything and since some things get completely cut, that means other things have to be altered. Anyway, as long as you keep the same mindset, I would 100% recommend reading them. After the show would mean in like 10 years. If nothing else read books 1 and 2, then you'll just be caught up and can still watch the show without having stupidly high expectations.
@@zv8381 That is probably the best approach. The books are good, really really good actually. I've read and listened to them several times in both English and Swedish. The show is an adaptation so it is very different and I like it, but the books are just in a different league. Do enjoy when you get there :)
I thought this episode was the best so far and totally exceeded my expectations... I thought it was going to be paced too fast and overdramatic in a bad way ... but actually, it was great ... few things I did not like were so minor that are even not worth mentioning ... I loved ending with introducing another forsaken .... the scene with Moghedien was amazing!
Really? I felt this was better than season one but one of the worst episodes of season two. The writing felt so rushed and even cheesy at times. I loved the episode where Egwene became a damane and was hoping to end the season on a high note, but it was a HUGE miss for me. :( edited to add: I agree about the scene with Moghedien. That was really good! It was one of the few things I liked about this awful episode.
Lanfear already betrayed Ishy in episode 5, when she told Liandrie that "there are many paths to walk through the night", indicating that Liandrian should work for her instead of Ishy.
My theory is that Mat will have lost his "hero" memories when the other Heroes vanished, and wanting them back, asking for them to be filled in, will be part of the deal with the Foxes.
No. I'm confident that they have fully warped Mat's storyline past Rhuidean: He has his ashanderei, he has his skill with it, and he has his memories of past lives. Mat might still accompany Rand to Rhuidean, but I bet they moved all of Mat's stuff to now so they could spend that sequence focusing on Rand and the secrets he learns about the Aiel. I also do not think we will see the snakes and foxes in the show: Much like flicker-flicker, they're an easily "compartmentalized" plot that be safely removed without much affecting the larger story, and with so much story to tell, the writers are going to be looking for every opportunity to cut things.
I don't know. The complexity of the story with the snakes and foxes is difficult to capture on screen. It's not only Mat getting his memories and all back. The Tower of Ghenjei is linked to as well. I'm afraid the Snakes and Foxes will fall victim to "kill your darlings" to fit other more important and screen friendly things. But maybe there is a way to compress it! That might be. I hope they do Rhuidean right instead, but I can see them skip that as well..
I think Egwene al'Vere was able to stop Ishamael's attacks because he was weakened from releasing the six forsaken, this should have definitely made him weak cause we also see in the episode in the flash back that Lews Therin said it himself that he might not be able to break the seal. So breaking six seals would have definitely weakened him to some extent.
That is indeed a very good assessment I think! It completely makes sense, in addition to her training with the Seanchan that showed her she's more powerful than she was led to believe in the Tower.
Thank you so much for your informative reviews. I can tell that you're a genuine fan of the books and I appreciate your diplomacy while being critical of the show.
I loved it. The only thing I really didn't like was how Egwene single-handedly kicked Ishamael's ass. She shouldn't have stood a chance against the weakest of the 13. It should have been Rand holding him back to protect his friends. I adore the episode as a whole, but that completely took me out of it, I actually laughed out loud. It just makes no sense to me, Rand is the only person on earth who could match him other than Rahvin, who I assume has been cut from the show.
Yes. I was really hoping for a strong end to season 2, but I ended up rolling my eyes over and over. The worst was Mat’s “I remember!” line that was so cheesy and anticlimactic.
@@KnittyElf I disagree, I thought the finale was fantastic except for Egwene somehow beating Ishamael. Mat's moments were the best, he really got to shine this episode, especially in that scene with the Heroes.. This finale was way better than season 1.
@@Jrdn357 I agree it was better than the season finale, but that’s because the season one finale was a 2/10 and this was a 4-5/10. Even ignoring the books, the writing for this episode was mediocre at best. It’s a real shame because that fantastic Egwene damane episode showed that they’re capable of better.
@@KnittyElf I completely disagree, I thought everything was great except for Egwene beating Ishy when it should have been Rand. You seem to be in the vast minority if you think this episode was bad, the whole Battle of Falme was awesome, especially Mat with the Heroes.
Good bro! Not many knows how much time and energy it takes to make these videoes. So keep it up! It's appreciated and inspirational. A thing I struggle with is the problems they keep giving themselves that requires screen time to fix. Moiraines "stilling" being the biggest. And also how they have the AUDACITY to tamper with the source material. Egwene healing a cindered Nynaeve in S1, and now fends of Ishamael until Perrin appears with a magic Uno shield. I mean wtf? They do so much right, but when they get it wrong OH BOY do they get it wrong
I liked how you could see a difference in the fighting ability when Lan was bonded versus earlier in the season when he wasn't. Straight up catching arrows aimed at Moraine. As someone that read the books there is that boost when bonded. I am not sure that was how it was intended to come across, but that's how I took it to make up for the earlier stuff with him this season.
I did love this. Hopper broke me. I cried out at the scream and kept crying minutes after the scene. I knew it would come but perrin in trouble snd knowing he would save him and the eyes, I died. But everyone acted wonderfully and the bond coming back was beautiful. All the weaves were great in this. S3 needs to comes snd be 10 episodes!
In season two Rand’s sword has had a heron on the hilt. We’ve seen it before. Not sure if it was pointed out. I thought Rand got the burn from the one on the hilt.
@@judysonnenberg6237 I am pretty sure his hand got branded by the heron on the blade. It is on his right hand, and he was holding the blade with that hand.
I think they are doing the best with what they have, yes in the final episode their were some points where Nynaeve could have stepped in and reinforced the shield or she could have done some healing. However, I did like the aspect that no one really understands the prophesies because so much time has past, they have become twisted and changed like when the dragon was supposed to proclaim himself yet it was actually someone else for him. Probably could have done with two more episodes but I still really enjoyed.
I think the opposite is true: They've time-warped Mat's plot _past_ his encounter with the snakes and foxes: He has his ashanderei, and he has his memories of past lives. The snakes and foxes are an easily-compartmentalized plot that can be cut from the show without greatly affecting the overall story, and with so much story to tell, I doubt the show-writers would have removed the _need_ for Mat to meet the snakes & foxes, only to include them anyways. Moiraine is the only other character to really be involved in the snakes & foxes arc, and I very much doubt the show is going to remove Rosamund Pike from the show for six seasons like they did in the books :P
15:15 Couldn't agree more. When Mat said that he remembered who he was, my heart sank. for the very same reason, it looks like they've sidestepped the snakes and foxes. Still, also like you, I teared up, mainly out of relief that Mat's character remained somewhat intact after they did him so dirty. :)
Agreed… people keep comparing early-show Mat with late-books Mat. Thats not fair! He was a completely uninteresting character until halfway through book three. He’s definitely coming around in the show. Loved this episode!
I also liked the explanation of why he left them in S1, to go back for the knife, and Morainna probably thought the same and sent the reds after him. cool conclusion.
There was just no time for foxes and snakes in the season. I did not mind the way he regained his memories, it gave time for more exciting things to happen. This was satisfying to me. I only hope season 3 continues the quality and flow. I expect it is too late for 10 or 12 episodes to be made in season 3 and we watchers want more!
@@Saa_la I have no issue with the actor, but the line itself felt incredibly forced. Mat wonders if he’s as bad as other people say he is for basically two full seasons. Then he blows the horn and suddenly is like, “Oh, I remember! I’m a hero of the horn! I’m good!” It felt as cheesy as that similar scene with Gandalf in The Rings of Power. To each their own, though, I guess. 🤷🏻♀️
I really like your assessment of Nyneave. I do you instroduce in S1 as this great channler, full of raw power. To not knowing how to pull an arrow out of Elayne's leg?! It really felt they were clueless about what to do with her. Matt blowing the horn was sweeeet. I cheered like he score the winning basket. That run into battle, I wanted to join them 😄
My take was that Nyneave was pretty traumatized by her actions torturing the Suldame and then watching and feeling her die. It seemed like Nyneave was a bit shell shocked and unable to act for that reason.
I loved Mat's arc finally! Rand's take down of Turac reminded me of Indiana Jones when he just shot the bad guy after much posturing ! The fact that they all just go poof with on blast. Cried so much over restoring the bond and Hopper dying
I thought Rand controlling so many weaves at one time to pop all the Seanchan and Turok was a little out of his depths.... but i guess it's ok, rules for channeling are loosey goosey in the show. I mean Egwene put up a forceshield to protect from Ishy, that was the only thing I really shook my head at and said "Ok well that's just stupid".
I hadn't watched the video yet and when I did, I heard you say that it reminded you of Indiana Jones too! Was certainly that vibe. But upon reflection, I think it also reminded me of Rand last season practicing with his bow in episode 8. Rand is not a good swordsman. But he is an excellent archer. I re watched the scene and it looks like he used the one power as a flight of arrows which all hit the others dead on. And they all drop
@@patriciamiller1523 the irony is in the books, by this time, Rand IS a good swordsman. But he's also spent an entire book training with Lan and learning it.
As a fan who started with the show (currently reading the books), it's so refreshing to hear such a dedicated primarily book fan as you talk positively about the show and give us some insights from the lore etc. I feel like all the book readers hating on the show are just pushing show-people away from reading the books and creating this sort of big conflict instead of everyone just celebrating that universe. I'm so happy you (& others of course) understand the adaptation can't be a perfect replica of the books and the writers are doing so many amazing things, including in the changes they chose to do. Thank you for all your work 🙏
Nice Lauren, I'm thinking Mat goes through only one door at this point. M had lots of research time to pick up on the past and prophesies. Flying dragon worked for me. Eggy killed it this Ep.
I am so glad when Matt uses his wits to outsmart Padan Fain and puts his dagger on a stick. 😄😄 It's different from the book but I still liked it, and then Matt blowing the horn was just icing on cake!! The bad - Rand barely uses the sword forms and Ishy just stands there when he stabs him. Like, WTF?
I'd say ishy was just standing there because he actually WANTED Rand to stab him. He didn't want to live anymore anyway, and it's been like that for years. Thats why he said he found it beautiful to 'see nothing' after he was stabbed (indicating his long awaited death )
@@azeezatazeezzz So explain me then what's with trying to gentle Rand or killing Rand and turning his friends to the dark? If Ishy had a death wish, he could just ask LanFear to do it for him. Besides, going by the lore, either it's the wheel or the dark one, Ishy will be revived again. So what's the point in seeking death? Rand, for now, doesn't know how to use balefire.
@@anantc88 revenge possibly. Rand being permanently cut off from the one power will be synonymous to him loosing a large part of himself and he'll feel in a 'almost alive almost dead state', and feel what ishameal felt but in a different version.
Agree...! WHY they insist on giving them only 8 episodes a season is terrible sense of business! I think this series could easily rival GoT if given the chance. But it simply can't be done with eight 1 hour episodes
Rand's changes were straight up awful and ruined what was pretty decent episode Ishamael cannot beat Egwene's shield Rand doesn't fight anyone or show his power Ishamael lets Rand walk up to him and stab him The climax was incredibly stupid
My take: 1) Egs was losing and being overwhelmed by Ishy until Perrin and the rest of the gang showed up. 2) As shown in the cold opening, Ishy clearly wanted to die (late-book accurate) and kind of gave up at the end when it was clear Rand wasnt going to turn. 3) The show is leaning in to the late-series theme of teamwork/friendship rather than it all being about Rand (“it was never about me”, AMOL). If they could have pulled off Ingtars confession in a meaningful way and the dragon at the end would have been 20% less corny, this would have been a 10/10 for me…
I agree. The episode was unfortunately full of anticlimactic, cheesy moments. The writers were not very good at building the stakes, which is a real shame after that fantastic episode where Egwene became a damane.
I really do love the moments that are pure fan service to us book readers. Nynaeve saying “you’ll curse the day your mother first kissed your father,” and Mat giving the “it’s time to roll the dice” battle cry in the old tongue were both super awesome to watch.
I just discovered your channel after watching the season 2 finale. Ive never read the books, having never even heard of them prior to the release of season 1, i just watched cause i love fantasy. But this 2nd season has made me decide to pick up the books. I also just want to commend you on your extremely realistic expectation of a tv adaptation of your favorite books. Your self awareness of why you feel disappointed and also understanding that your hopes and dreams can NEVER be realised on-screen is an absolute breath of fresh air. The fantasy community has such a bad habit of crapping all over everything and constantly criticizing instead of appreciating these adaptations for what they are. So, thank you!
Great review and love the passion. I'm glad I haven't read the books because I thought the finale was incredible. For me, reading fantasy books afterward is always great entertainment while waiting for another season.
This season has been a major improvement on season 1. Im not as worried about the story changes as i was before. They made some bold choices but man they nailed the character beats. The pathos when matt blew the horn was beautiful. Knowing with proof he wasn't bad. Perryns transformation was handled so well also. Im so glad egwene freed herself. I will also say her hero moment with the shield was perfect. She wasn't going toe to toe with ishy but it still showed her strength in a sensible way that was right in her wheelhouse. The only thing that bugged me was the fast and lose way they have every aes sedai being a prodigious healer. It cheapens the talent. I loved this episode though. 8 forsaken is enough for tv.
Okay I just finished the finale and as a non book reader- just started the first book- it was great! I loved Egwene freeing herself and showing so much power. I hated whatever block Nyaneve has. It is frustrating I hated seeing Hopper die. I have no clue what a flicker flicker means until you explained it. I was pleased with Moiraine really tapping into such power and channeling from such a distance. I do think it was funny at how far away she dropped them off! Lancear is just great. I am currently rewatching season one as I am reading the first book and I actually like some of the changes they made in that first episode
ah going to have to go back and rewatch then!! they missed it in season 1 and i feel like it should have been a couple of comments as they walk into an Inn for example...just to point it out to the viewers, season 1 though had alot to work through
@@ArchlordZer0 That's how you actually do it in RL.... the top of teh blade isn't sharp, You push with the right hand above the guard, and guide with the left gripping the blade from above.
@@hammerhiem75 Go rewatch the episode. Rand had a death grip on the sharp part of the blade. I've trained with a katana (professionally). I've never heard or seen anyone do anything like that.
The battle of Falme was incredible. It's the one time that the fast jumping of perspectives didn't bother me so much. I LOVED Moghedian! It was not at all how I imagined her, but she was so incredibly sinister and had the spider aspect down. Finally, Moiraine channeling on the beach was beautiful, powerful, and brilliant. Seeing her and Lan working together again, the complexity of her weaves, and the way it was shot were all perfect. I'm very hopeful that this momentum will continue into season 3, and the quality will continue.
I'm actually hoping we do see Lanfear helping the heroes (or at least Rand) in the future, she was definitely the best character this season in my opinion. I'm not an Egwene fan tho so I can see those who are really liking her arc.
I am so glad that i found your channel. Your reviews and explainers are simply amazing. You are a true book fan. Please keep these videos coming. 10/10
Sorry, I usually agree with your positions on the various episodes, but not this time. I have been defending the show for two seasons, but I really hated this episode. I have come to the conclusion that Rafe really dislikes the character of Rand (and even the Dragon). In two seasons, he has yet to give Rand a single big, dramatic moment, anything that demonstrates the power of the Dragon. He has given them to Egwene, he has given them to Nyneave and in this episode, he gave away Rand’s connection with the Heroes to Mat, apparently in order to make Mat an experienced warrior and general in his own right, instead of having that download. (I wonder if we’re still going to have the show trying to keep Mat’s line about not being a hero when that clearly no longer applies, does it?) We don’t have the Dragon banner, we don’t have the Heroes saying that they follow the banner and fight for the Dragon. We don’t have his banner across the sky, instead, we have Moraine creating a fake image to fool the populace. Rand doesn’t even fight Ishy at the end. We get essentially a repeat of the finale of last season, where Rand rejects the DO as he has done many times before. I can’t see any of the Forsaken being jealous of this guy. And Ishy acting as if Rand put an end to his existence at the end. Is this the way the show is going? That the DO would let him go? I don’t know how I feel about season three at this point, since I am not sure that Rafe will ever give us a truly powerful Rand (though I suspect he would love to give us his flaws in neon letters).
My thoughts exactly on Rand. They refuse to give him big moments. No big sword fight, no big fight with the power. He hasn’t done much of anything other than kind of -be- there. When Egwene jumped in against Ishy I had flashbacks to the season 1 finale disaster and just groaned.
@@MasterRahl221 With Turak that takes away his sword fight. And with Ishy he lazily walked up and stabbed and Ishy who wasn’t even resisting…. It seemed so lazy. Come on, lol. He didn’t “kill him on his own” -they gave the big One Power moment against Ishy to Egwene. Rand just happened to be there
Are you sure in the books Rand sounds the horn? For some reason Matt stuck with me for that. Anyway, if they are cutting the Aelfinn and Eelfin out for Morgain, Lanfear and Matt, as I believe they are, they have to still incorporate the major consequences. Moraine struggling with loss of the power and Mat obtaining memories of heroes and battle masters. We're still early in the books and Rand didn't have many hero moment then.
I'm glad so many have enjoyed this episode & season 2 in general. I've also enjoyed this season much more than the first. I still feel like the writing is a bit sloppy & unfocused in some regards. I would have liked to have seen more build up to the horn, for example, as I didn't feel the impact of that moment like so many others have. I also think the visual of the ways has vastly improved. 👍 But don't get me wrong, that Hopper scene DESTROYED me. 😭🐺🏞
I've been lurking your channel for a while. First time commenting and plan to join your channel and Patreon. Your reviews have increased the Love I have for This show!!! Thank you so much!. This episode is full speed ahead from the first minutes. IE!!! Not ashamed to say I CRIED😢
My main issue with the show was that the closed captions misnamed characters a couple of times, including saying Ingtar instead of Loial after Ingtar died!
You had an amazing breakdown and review of this finale episode! Better than any other I have watched yet! You mentioned Masema and that was a detail I never noticed and was not mentioned by anyone else I have watched do a review on this episode as yet. Thank you for your excellent work! ❤❤
I think I need to let some of my “book brain” go, overall I really did like the episode. Rand killing Turak that way did disappoint me but at the same time he’s had no sword training and we saw how Rand with a sword turned out against that fade in ep4 (not good) lol. So having him kill Turak 1v1 in a sword fight just wouldn’t have been realistic. If anything having Rand kill Turak like that shows me that writers understand where Rand is in terms of his swordsmanship. Mat blowing the horn was perfect as long as they still keep the snakes and foxes like you said. Hopper and Perrin with him killing Geoff was great. I’m okay with Egwene freeing herself, after ep 6 the pay off wouldn’t have felt right if someone else did it I like the fire dragon, it’s different but I like it. And im okay with Moiraine channeling it I guess, like you said power levels just seem a bit all over. But overall I really liked it, a strong 7/10 for me. I will need to re-watch. Edit: I also think we will still get the flicker flicker at some point. Maybe rand trying to get them all to the Waste? 👀
Also it feels like the writers and Rafe especially does listen to fans and I’m sure he’s seen everything (good and bad) on social media and he’s probably willing to take things on board as feedback from people. Nearly 24 hours later my only real complaint with the ending was that Rand still hasn’t had his time to shine, the ending with Ishy was just too anticlimactic for me. Still enjoyed it though. Excited to see where season 3 goes. However I’m at the point where if I’m not in love with season 3 I’ll probably tune out.
I made a decision around episode 3 of season one that I would treat the show as its own thing and not stress over things that are different from the books. From that moment on my enjoyment went up immensely. From that point of view I felt this finale was perfect. Sure I would have loved to see a sword fight with Turok but the Indiana Jones moment made me laugh and it makes more sense than a kid who first held a sword a year ago beating a blade master. I thought after I finished the episode that I really enjoy how the show follows the broad strokes of the books but changes a lot of the details. It keeps me on the edge of my seat rather than just waiting for the next thing I know will happen.
100%… Rand beating a blademaster with a few months of basic training was absurd in the books, it would have been infinitely worse to have tried it in this episode…
I had that very mindset from before S1 release, and I indeed enjoy the show way more than the majority of readers from what I've seen! Instead of expecting events, I'm wondering how they'll adapt them to still end up where they need it, and it has given me the same fun I had theorizing while we were waiting for the next book! Feeling of wonder that had mostly disappeared since 2013, and was rekindled around 2019 thanks to the show!
I wish someone would create an animated wheel of time adaptation that was completely book accurate but even more filled out with referenced scenes included.
I watched an interview just yesterday with Rosamund Pike and Josha Stradowski and Pike is one of the producers of the show and she explained that in season 1 they didn't know how to show the threads and weaves of channeling in the show so in season 2 that was a big thing for them to figure out and I think they did an excellent job at that. the season finale was so amazing and awesome. I didn't mind the changed they made from the books, but It is interesting to see how things look in television compared to how you interpret them when reading the books. I imagined an open battle field with the Fallen heroes of the past riding from the heavens and crashing down on their enemies on horse back when I first read the books many years ago and I can't remember if that actually happened in the books or not but it was still a great finale. The only thing that bugs me is we don't see much of Thom Merrilin and he was one of my favorite characters. We only saw him in 1 or 2 episodes in season 1 and I remember he had a much bigger role to play in the stories if I'm not mistaken.
That's how Imagined it too, but I appreciated the direction they took with centering on the tower in a strategic and prophetic sense, and how the scale still felt large with the Seanchan vs whitecloak dynamic
Great episode, only complaint was Rand's fights getting cut. No Rand v Turak and no Rand v Ishy (really). Pretty disappointed with how they're handling Rand's power. At this point if I was a show watcher I would have no idea why the Dragon Reborn is even important. If they wanted to make Egwene the main character they should've just made her the Dragon and be done with it... Overall 8/10
I get that, but even in the books he was still becoming himself, and he had a lot of moments early on in the books that did not get explained and made him seem so inexplicably overpowered. I think he'll really come into his own over the course of the adaptation of Shadow Rising. That's where he has major epiphanies and training
Take all the time you need, your videos are amazing, this is the reason why, I think, your channel is picking up rather than UA-cam algorithm. It doesn't matter how long we'll have to wait for more content, what matters is you have never disappointed. Thanks for your work and dedication :)
I don't think Moiraine has broken the Three Oaths to destroy the Damane ship holding Rand's shield. The Oath said "not to use the One Power as a weapon except in last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai". I think Moiraine is already feeling threatened by the Seanchan soldiers attacking them. Its just she directed the One Power against the Damane ship instead of those soldiers. The books might not have intended it to be like that, but I think its a loophole in the wordings of the Oath that the show has taken advantage.
@@eeeee6717 That is also a possibility, though I think the show did not include that part, since Moiraine didn't mentioned it to Egwene. But if that's the case, then it would mean Moiraine knows, or at least is convinced, that the people on the ships are Darkfriends. That is possible if she believes that if they are holding a shield for Rand, then they are under the command of Ishamael.
I loved this recap! First one I watched on this channel :) I really like when you point out cinematic aspects as well, it makes me think back to the episode myself and see it through a different lense. On the point of Rand not having enough heroic moments: I agree, but I also think it's smart to give more of them to Egwene and Nyneave. We all know that as the dragon Rand will become the most impressive channeled of the bunch and I enjoy that the dynamic between the male and female side is building and slowly changing. Also love the girl power moments, ngl! Egwene freeing herself was such a good change and Rand recognizing that reminds the audience that he has respect for them. And in a world where he will outdo her in terms of power soon, that initial respect is important for his character.
I just don’t understand Rand stabbing Ishy. Maybe it was just bad choreography but Rand literally just slowly walked at him and stabbed him while Ishamael stared at him. Made no sense. It was like Ishys brain stopped working.
11 місяців тому
Ishy is already planning his comeback at this point.
Felt the same. Like something went wrong with that scene, the cutting or the CGI... and Ishi's words when he died are bugging me too. Why was Lanfear not dead after being stabbed with Rand's sword but Ishy was?
I was so worried by the first 3 episodes of Season 2. I thought we were going to get a continuation of the story telling from Season 1 which, as a fan of the books, was very disappointing. After Season 1 I wasn't excited by Season 2 and only started to watch it as I was ill in bed, after 6 episodes were already avaiable. Thankfully the story finally seems to be getting some traction and momentum and I'm actually excited for Season 3. All in all, this was a big improvement from season 1 and I can only hope it continues to improve.
I want to thank you for the work you’ve done on the Wheel of Time series. I couldn’t keep anything straight in my head the first four episodes of season 1 when it came out, and gave up. I decided to try it again now that 2 is out, and have found your recaps and the 101 playlist extremely helpful. I couldn’t enjoy this show without your help.
You give the absolute best reviews, analysis, deep dives, etc on this epic saga. Take care of yourself first, it’s so important. You are very appreciated!!! ❤❤❤
not necessarily, no. aes sedai can use the one power to fight when they are in defense of her life or her warders. which she was. she just directed the weaves elsewhere
@@UnravelingthePattern I agree with this. She certainly would allow them to die. But according to the oaths, she is simply unable to use the power as a weapon against them. She can only use it against dark friends, shadowspawn, or in the last defense of herself, another AES Sedai, or her warder. None of those apply to her attacks on the ships. She admits that she doesn’t know whether the ones in the ship are innocents or not. She is protecting Rand from being shielded, but Rand is not AES Sedai, nor is anyone else alive on the tower.
I can't believe it, they've actually done it! I've never been this emotional watching an episode of TV!
Right?! When Matt blew the horn and had his awakening… it touched my book reader soul in a way that television has never done! I loved it so much.
@@KeeperoftheChronicles Yes me too. I literally cried. I was so scared for him he might have to use the knife and didn't know they would do in the tv show. also it kinda of reminded me of the first time he chanted when they were raining down on trollocks in book 1 which wasn't in the s1. felt so good.
Yup! "Dovie'andi se tovya sagain!!!" I didn't realise till nearly 30secs later that I had tears coming down my face. Like the first time seeing Moiraine channel while Lan was fighting the trolleys in S1, but 10 fold! Amazing!!!
@@markweedon5678 One of the best scenes I’ve ever seen on TV. And the music… UGHHHHHH. Perfection!
Agreed, so great
I like that an Aielman runs this channel.
😁😁😁
He has earned much Ji while we incur much Toh
😂😂😂... this got me
@@joeysaks6516 lol 😆
@@geraldtsunge67 I'm glad. When the thought hit me I couldn't stop smiling 😊
Lol the scene where Rand confronts Turak and his guards! I was like “yeasss we gonna see some heron sword on heron sword fightinggggg… and nope.” It was like that scene in Indiana Jones where the crazy guy with the two swords comes out swing his swords all around while screaming and Indy just caps his ass. I literally lol’d.
Was predictable and foreshadowed by Liandrin/Nynaeve. Why fight physical or fair - fight to win. Makes total sense to blow them away with the power.
Also it would have felt weird, Turak was a blademaster, and Rand barely knows how to hold a sword on the right side, so he just had to use the power imo.
@@user-qx4ip8tv8i rand barely knows how to fight because rafe ignored the SM and wanted to make a different story than the books...
If Rand had pulled the sword and engaged Turak I'd have been disappointed in Rafe. There's been no scenes of Lan & Rand training. Such a scene would have felt so forced, it would have made the entire Episode feel false.
@@hellgast0 Why dont you keep you negative comments to yourself. 1) Rafe is not making the story alone, why does it make you guys feel so great to attack people personally, did your mothers not teach you any manners, is this how you like to be treated?? 2) Sword training is coming, it's been confirmed in interviews, just the storyline didnt provide it this season. Why are y'all so hung up on having a page by page adaptation, how boring would that be?? The important plot points are there or coming, just maybe not in the order you expect, and after all Amazon is saying 8x8 (if all are greenlit), so to make 15 bloody volumes fit, there needs to be some adaptation, just use your brain a bit on whats feasible - how large a cast can you carry over 8 seasons, how many locations can you build per season etc etc. Geez.
The actress playing moghedein was spot on and the way she weaves spider webs was so thematic. I got chills watching her.
Agreed, they nailed it with her, can't wait to meet the other forsaken!
Absolute chills, the way she speaks, the way she threatens Lanfear!!! superb!!
Moghedian always seemed to me as someone who was older in the books, granted 3000 years, but where someone like lanfear might be 3300 years old, moghedian seemed more like 3700, like a plump old widow spider.
She's terrifyingly look strong
Which also explains why Ishamael hands were dusty as he dust it off while speaking with Lady Suroth, he must've released the other forsaken that time.
I love how Lanfear is such a delicious character, that we're wondering if the woman who casually murders people by popping their heads like grapes to steal their horse, is "really" Dark deep down inside :D
What I gathered so far is that she is willing to go against the dark one to help Rand but everyone else is just a stepping stone or obstacle. She only cares for Rand or his counterpart since they shared many lives together.
Yeah, she's just removing obstacles to getting what she wants in the most expedient manner at her disposal. I wouldn't consider her evil, just amoral. Somewhat like Ishy. Which is what makes for a good villain. He was a bad guy, but I was really sorry to see him go. @@Krakenjack1
She’s not a good person…the debate is just whether she is a literal devil worshiper or not.
@@SandyFischlerdefinitely evil.
@@Krakenjack1🎯🎯🎯
Ishamael having dust on his hands paints this really funny image of Ishy just strongman snapping the Cuendillar by hand 😆
He had to break them by hand because while cuendillar seals were physically weakened by the Dark One's influence, they were still immune to One Power.
Doesn't Elayne figure out how to create Cuendillar at some point and other lost ancient secrets ?
@@Krakenjack1 yup, though the cuendillar is actually Eg, though I think it personally feels more like an Elayne skill.
@@Krakenjack1 Yep - this is why Elayne's "I like to thinker with things" line back when we first met her was such a great nod to future events. (Though she actually learns how to identify and, later, create ter'angreal -- it's Egwene who learns the lost secret of weaving cuendillar.)
Iirc Eg's ability with cuendillar is partly because of her particular affinity with Earth weaves
I like how Loial's line on how the heroes of this age are responsible of the legends of tomorrow, suits very well with Moiraine's independent realization that she can't just hope that a banner will appear by itself, she can do it herself.
Yes! Lanfear did hint for her to fly the banner when it’s time before they separated. That’s why I think it was able to click to easily when Moraine was in the moment.
I saw it as a mirror of the Perrin line in The Shadow Rising at the battle of the Two Rivers where he tells Loial that he already is a hero.
Few things: Totally agree on Nyneave, was so sad to see her basically reduced to a prop all episode, especially because she and Elayn weren't the ones to save Egwene. On the subject of Flicker-Flicker, i'm not a book reader yet but just given what I know about how they've reordered events in this show, I could see them having Flicker-Flicker happen later in the series at a moment where Rand is dealing more with the weight of being the dragon and the price of his potential failure, so that scene hits home a bit more. IMO from what i've heard about it, it seems like an easy scene to move somewhere else.
Also just as a side note: as a show-only watcher, i really had no trouble believing that Moraine could do the channeling she did this episode. Moraine is very powerful, we saw that in season 1 during the battle in the two-rivers, and she was able to give her full attention to just channeling since Lan was protecting her. Imo that scene worked, at least for me it did.
Agreed. With the way they introduced Traveling in this episode, I wouldn't be surprised if we get Flicker Flicker next season.
I am a non-booker reader and I felt the same way about Moraines channeling....I thought she was pretty powerful like in season 1 with the trollicks....I hope I spelled those right 😮
Im a book reader and I think it was fine to have her channel this way, yes it could be argued that it's stretching disbelief even for what we know of the magic in both the books and the show but i think its sufficiently balanced out by the long cast time and Rosamund's physical delivery, we're visually being informed that this is a really big attack with a windup and probably necessitates a lot of concentration on her part to perform, like i genuinely think the average audience member will generally understand what's happening with her here
It is said on WOT wiki that Moiraine, Siuan, and some few other aes sedais are the strongest Aes sedais of the present era. Except ofcourse caduane but they all think she dead.
@@zv8381 Not knowing how to spell 'Trolloc' or 'Moiraine' when you've never read the books is perfectly understandable.
I’m a fan who watched the first season, fell in love with the characters, then read the series, and am currently rereading the books. I’m a fan of both the show and the books. I am so, so happy with the second season. The finale was beyond amazing! Now I can get back to my reading.
You read _and are rereading_ the _entire_ series _between the first and second seasons?!_ Holy crap, you're one hell of a reader --- I'm currently on my third read and have been so for months now (... though, in fairness, I'm currently in the midst of the Path of Daggers/Winter's Heart/Crossroads of Twilight doldrums :P )
Enjoy your reeding! In another turning of the wheel we can meet and discuss the books over some spiced wine.
I also love how the whole time egwene was ‘freeing herself’, she was so fearless and knew what she was doing, yet we could see that so many emotions were going through her head. The fact that she had finally killed her sul’dam, she was free, rennas gory death, AND THAT SHE LITERALLY FELT DEATH TWO TIMES OVER. And the fact that she had no time to process, was knocked out, yet she had enough strength to weave together, and continuously weave back a shield strong enough to hold back Ishamael like…. I love egwene so much
She was so cool and strong
It was stupid
I cried for Hopper(it's so hard to see it on screen even if I had expected to see it). I teared up with Mat. I squealed in excitement with Moghedien!!!! Overall, it's great. I'm excited for season 3!
I've been watching the episodes alone right when they drop, then re-watching again the next day with my husband. I told him he'd know the exact moment that Hopper died (he's also a book reader, though more casual than I am) even though he wasn't watching with me, because of how I was going to react. I was right.
This episode did not let me down, I loved it, but I've been dreading that Hopper moment all season.
OMG I have done the same. I watched the episodes as soon as they dropped and then later in the day with my husband. We are both big fans of the series and we think that they have done an amazing job. :)
Hopper's story really only started after the incident at Hawkwings Statue - so I'm looking forward to dream Hopper big time
This was Mat’s episode when he blew the horn I cried a little. It was beautiful to see him shine
When he said 'I remember', and stood up tall I was bouncing up and down.
I cried a lot! hahaha and I didn't even liked Matt in the untill that moment
haha yeah I was waiting for more bolts to fly too. Have Lan knocking them out of the air or something. @Vishal-hf1mw
@Vishal-hf1mw OMG yes and lan took the arrow with his hand but he was only one i dont even remember how he died.
I cried toooo
The Traveling we see in this episode is how true power traveling happens.
thats a neat distinction...we havent really seen anyone travel yet...Lanfear brings Matt to Falme but we dont see the act, and them Moghedian just dissappears into a shadow, that HAS to be the true power...for those that dont know it is the power that stems from the dark one as opposed to the One Power, which they tried to bore into and released the Dark One
Wasn't it the same type of traveling with Lanfear & Rand in the ways? (Or is it spelled waze?) After she pushed Lan & moraine out the door didn't Lanfear instantly travel to the city with Rand?
@@GlueGunsRoses yes it was the same Lanfear used in the ways. It's how true power Traveling works in the books (see last battle)
Doubt they’ll make the distinction in the show
@@gerbertron3226I think they're going to have to make the distinction: the portals created via "standard" Travelling, with the One Power, are actually a fairly major element of later story arcs --- whole armies are moved through them. Nightcrawler-style bamfing just wont' work with a lot of the future scenes. Also, I will just add... "DEATH GATES" :D
Such a heartfelt honest reaction. Thank you for being you! Take the time you need to not burn yourself out. We will be here!
I ugly cried in the Moiraine and Lan bond scene and mat blowing the horn. This episode was insane. My only criticism is the lack of Rand and Nyneave agency.
I think they're letting each of the major characters pull focus so that the audience builds a relationship with them. This season was super heavy on Egwene and letting us see her be forged into who she will become. We finally got a glimpse of Mat and how his story is about to start developing. I'm laying odds that Aiel and Aviendha are very significant in Season 3. Rand is still a bystander in the story so far, it's all happening TO him, he's not driving the story as the Dragon leading to the Last Battle....yet.
Me too! (with Lan and Moiraine’s scene). Their deep, platonic friendship means a lot to me, and I’m so glad to see that finally expressed again after so much… uh… turmoil, shall we say?!
I cried when Hopoer was killed and cheered when Perrin picked up the axe.
sad we didn't see the Dragon Banner itself, but tears came to my eyes seeing that Dragon!
I do think we saw the dragon that will adorn the Dragon Banner - and it looked both fanciful and cool
I got angry and got whiplash with the inconsistencies of the character of "good" guys in this series. A few examples:
1. Moiraine (and other Aei Sedai) was so weak that she struggled with some battling Trollocs, then had the immense power to sink a great sea armada from afar? Come on writers, define their powers: don't tune them up and down as plot conveniences.
2. What are the warders? Are they toy boys? Junior lieutenants? Glorified enamored puppies? Strong men with agencies? Part of management or drone workers? Writers could not really define them in two whole seasons.
3. The characters of the five main protagonists vacillate from being like sniffling and lost high school kids to physically great fighters to people with taser-like powers to heroes with visions of high clarity to being uncertain, bumbling and weak idiots. Writers, define your characters well!
I kind of agree with you, though your third comment could be said about the book characters too.
This episode was so amazing!!!! I was crying happy tears. What a great show!
I'm glad you're on board with Rand's takedown of Turak reminded me of Logain S1E4 and felt appropriate to me - and I liked it when Rand asked Elayne her name - no Daughter-heir
Oh yes, I am so happy about that, when she said "Elayne" and then they kept showing her face I was thinking if she says "the Daughter Heir of Andor" now I'm gonna bite my pillow apart 🥴🥴but luckily she did not 😅
yes thankfully she did not - I think it sets up their liaison better than the books (falls in Garden etc) but kept her healing him - and love Blossoms. the way they framed her face -
Ya that seemed like growth from Elayne, especially after she let Loial go on and on. A little bit of modesty.
I thought the episode was excellent. The stakes were so high from beginning to end. I totally teared up when Mat blew the horn. And I think we will still see the snakes and foxes.
Agreed!
Not watched this video so I'll update it I've missed something, but I got the impression from the episode that the horn gave Mat his memories (cus of the whole yelling in old tongue), so not sure a) why they'd need snakes and foxes, and b) why they'd change how Mat got his memories if they plan on doing snakes and foxes anyway
@@MrHulaine I don't think we will. Because they already gave his spear
It got me too didn't expect it at all...they killed it best episode of the series.
@@bobbob-mr3jcNo way Mat keeps using the 'Shadar Logoth dagger on a stick' as a weapon. That would be ridiculous, IMO. He'll have to get a proper ashanderei later in the show, methinks.
They focused on the heron marked blade in the episode Rand meets the Amyriln seat. They did a quick focus on the sword hilt.
Yes I noticed that too and I'm surprised this gentleman missed it
Noticed the same
I thought they always hinted at it too 🤷🏽♀️
Yep.
I thought I saw 2 herons together on the part of the strap for the sheath that is on Rands chest.
Before i consume this video, i want to take a moment and just absolutely simp for that moghedien scene, that delivery had such adorable psycho vibes and i loved every moment of it, im so looking forward to that actress's performance in season 3
Edit: i also very much liked how Mat dealt with the dagger, and from the writers perspective it's a perfect excuse for a precursor wespon to his Ashandarei; they're also doing a good job so far of having the Aiel veil their faces for killing
The attention to detail when wrapping the dagger to the staff was interesting. Mat never touched the hilt even with 1 layer of cloth on it. At least from how it was edited
Moghedian was epic!
I'm worried that this IS the Ashandarei...I use to tie knives to sticks when I was 10. It didn't hold up to stabbing mattresses.... Agree on Moghedien,. With her and Lanfear, I'm not sure I can resist the Dark.
Ya same! Trying to tie anything to whatever doesn't really work in the long run... So that was a WEIRD solution. How they solved the dagger was a bit weird to, imo... ANYWAY, don't forget, Graendael was named earlier in the show. The "vessel of pleasure". Absolutely loved Ishamael to. So I'm more or less already a dark friend. It all comes down to who "the boys" are, and how they solve Mazrim Taim. If they do that right, I'll convert.@@YZedMB
@@YZedMBI think it's more likely this is like a foreshadowing of the actual ashandarei, so when he gets it, viewers will go "Ohhhh like when he made that one with the dagger 😮"
Knowing that they filmed s2&s3 back to back I think making Nynaeve useless was on purpose, considering the Moghidiene ending. This season she grew to understand why she would want to learn from Aes Sedai + respect them, hopefully setting up some cool s3 stuff
Exactly my thoughts! And it gives the spotlight to Elayne (which we needed) and Egwene.
I think the sacrifice Ryma & her warder made to keep Elayne & Nynaeve safe from the suldame made a deep impression on Nynaeve. That and being told by Elayne that her methods were useless has made Nynaeve question herself. I'm sure she will bounce back & be her assertive self, but at this moment she's shaken.
That's a really great idea. Thanks for putting it into perspective for me!
I also think it's very intentional. What she went through this season is overlooked and overshadowed by what we saw with Egwene. She lost a child, the person she confided in was Black Ajah and kidnapped her, and her inability to control the One Power led to Ryma's capture. She really hasn't been the same since her Accepted test. She had periods of time where she went through this type of stuff in the books, but I think a future confrontation may just break her out of her lack of confidence. :)
@@proteuswest1084 very well put. Now that you mention it, it only makes sense!
Non book reader here...your videos (reactions, unraveleds, WOT 101, etc.) have helped to make me an even BIGGER fan of the show than I would have been if I was only watching the episodes. Your passion for the books and this world is infectious! I'm looking forward to all of your future videos. They are a great way to fill the time between seasons of the show. When I do a rewatch I always include watching your unraveled videos after each episode so I can get a deeper understanding of what's going on and what I may have missed. As a content creator around a TV show myself, I know how much time is needed to create timely content while the show is releasing episodes so please know how much all of your hard work is appreciated.
Thank you again!!
It's funny because I feel the opposite to you with the Snakes and Foxes thing. I think they're foreshadowing it rather than trying to write around it. I feel MORE confident it is going to happen. That being said, I think we'll only get ONE trip through a doorway, not two. I also think they foreshadowed it with the Mushroom Trip Tea - seeing Mat hanging framed by what looks like a red doorway .. I'm hopeful lol.
I also believe we'll have only 1 arch, though I dunno if it means only either the Fox or the Snakes or both at once.
Well should get one doorway, and one tower trip, where he meets both of them.
That doorway trip has to be in Rhuidean. It is one of the places like Falme here. It is the third of three key locations in the prophecies, and the only one of the three described, not named. @@questionsroxelane3643
Gday - Sindhol or Otherland is a great homage to earlier stories, myths and legends - it would be a shame if it isn't included
We can always hope! The Snakes and Foxes, and everything around that, is maybe my favourite thing from the books. Possibly beaten the wolves and everything with that. With the Snakes and Foxes comes the Tower of Ghenjei too. But I fear they messed that up with making a certain aes sedai useless once already. And I can't think of that without being angered by HOW they named an episode Daes Dae'Mar without bringing back Thom!
Yes! We also had Mat missing an eye in Nynaeve's accepted vision, which I hope is foreshadowing rather than just a nod to the books. Agree that they could wrap it into a combined trip for the show
I actually liked how Rand killed all those guys with the one power. I think he didn't get enough sword training yet to win a duel and it would have been silly for him to win a sword fight against an actual master. This also showed how much stronger it is to fight with the one power.
but now I want to see Lan training him in sword fighting ... every damn episode of the next season !!
yup i also like rand using the power moment, it showed how powerful dragon is compared to others. also when in the begining poor shamael was threatening with his friends, lews was like i already got em and shamael was like please. not from the book, but it was excellent moment. they did a fine job i think, if they tried to emulate book, they would've had to do 23 episodes in each season i would've loved it but quality wouldn't have been there.
@@HB-zt1ed We haven't gotten much Mad Rand yet. Maybe they're going to tie the sword training to fighting off madness... Plus he needs a new sword. Still not sure how a source heated iron sword, rather than Callandor, could turn a forsaken to dust.
@@grahamtpetersonNot we nor maybe Rand did know, what he channeld through (?) the sword.
PS: Sorry, no native speaker
@@svenkropelinrieger1688 True, they didn't explain his channeling or why Ishamael just stood there. Guessing they combined the fights from book two and book three for time. Rand definitely needs training that is shown on screen to help the audience understand what he is and isn't capable of. If for no other reason than helping the audience tell when he is getting more proficient at it.
In general the fighting and magic systems feel super inconsistent in the show. Ie the dagger, which seemed to have similar effects as Rand's sword at the end, even though Matt doesn't channel.
Season 2 much better than Season 1… hopefully they build on this and 3 is best yet 👏
FR! So glad they changed the freaking directors. This was such a great episode and tied so many things together. The structure was a bit off but other than that it was 10/10!
I want a porno between egween nevyeen n Perrin In the next season. That will be a good twist n a great change from the novels.
The show is following the paths of the books in terms of quality: Book 1 was always a bit derivative; Book 2 was a _huge_ step up, and the quality kept increasing through to at least (in my opinion) Book 6 (which is my personal favourite, though I believe most people hold Book 4 as the best... which, coincidentally, is what season 3 will be adapting :) )
@@eunomiac You didnt love Lord of Choas? Kneel or Be Knelt?
@@zyonhenderson67Huh-what? Lord of Chaos is book 6, which I said was my favourite of the series, particularly because of Dumai's Wells. ("Asha'man! _KILL!"_ )
So satisfying! Though it hurt to see Hopper die, even though we knew it was coming. And Birgitte! We got Birgitte!
I looked but did not find Birgitte in the credits. I certainly saw someone who looked like her.
@tigraine5714 that was definitely her next to Uno. I'm curious if they've actually cast her yet or if that was just a place holder actor in the mean time. I remember not expecting to see her again after reading the Great Hunt, it was a delightful surprise. Maybe the show is planning to pull off the same kind of surprise by not making a big deal of her in this episode.
Yes but also spoilers
@@rhysfriesen Definitely an extra in a bad wig for this episode, lol.
@@Dondingo4 hehe yes indeed. That hair was a bit shit :)
I cried when mat sounded the horn, I cried when hopper died, this was such an emotional episode
Same! 😭
I literally rolled my eyes when Mat said, “I remember!” I don’t think they could have shoved that into the story in a cheesier way. It felt on par with a CW series (and not a very good one). 🙄
@@KnittyElf I'm a big fan of the CW Flash... so you can say I have very low standards
@@justinsui4201 lol
They did Ingtar dirty! His redemption was so poignant in the books. Since they screwed him I will say it here: May you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand, and may the last embrace of the mother welcome you home. I felt his redemption was so Important to Rand, it showed him that yes you can come back to the light.
true re Ingtars importance to Rand - at least he said "one man could hold 50 here" which I enjoyed
@wotoholicaussie5086 and then died to fewer then 10
@@bryansuminski7543 but surely it is the sentiment that counts not the "fewer than ten" cited
@wotoholicaussie5086 it's a sentiment that doesn't mean anything. That line was only for book readers, but why would any of them even care when his story was completely nonexistent?
@@bryansuminski7543 that's not relevant but thanks
I never read the books and I truly enjoyed the show. I come here to understand some things from the shows and it gives me more than I would find.
I believe people who read the books should always take a chill pills and just enjoy the adaptations in every show/movie they watch.
I feel like they're judging the adaptation rather than the show. As a book reader, I loved the show :)
@@Saa_la I agree and unfortunately most shows/movies are judged based on the books like the accuracy of it while I may agree to some of it based on the type of book but I always like to enjoy the show from the actors/actresses, special FX and scripts.
I’m on book 5, and I must say there are tons I prefer with the adaptation. Actually like a lot of the main characters more than I do in the book.
We cried our eyes out seeing Hoper die! Thanks for explaining the many bits we were confused about ❤
I kept crying and crying then wiped my eyes and BAM they do something else im crying again. It was so fucking good. THE WHEEL OF MOFUCKIN TIME YALL.
It was Mat getting his polearm, for me. As soon as I saw him grab that pole I broke down. Donal Finn is CRUSHING it!!
when he had his moment of realisation and said "i remember" was the first breaking point for me! we have been blessed by donal. I was a barney stan from before season 1 but donal absolutely delivered everything possible@@rhysfriesen
😂😂😂 that episode was garbage. Grow up
@WheelUpTime Barney was superb as troubled Mat. I remember seeing the possibility of him delivering full charisma Mat but Donal has the natural sparkle in his eyes and grin. I hope he'll get his hat in the show!
@@peopleschampiii584 I thought I was the only one thinking this episode is not good. They tried to tell too much in one episode resulting a chaotic storytelling and lame fighting scenes and weak endings for characters.
Masema was named in the Credits before - I hope he will be become what he is supposed to become 😁😁
They named him in the show too, and in the subtitles.
Did you see the look on his face when he beheld the Dragon bannered 'cross the sky in fire? He's gonna become what he's supposed to become :)
Perrin says “Masema “
@@eunomiac Rewatched it and you are right, I didnt notice this in first round, but now I am hopeful 🤗
Nice review. Thank you.. As a none reader of the books, i was overcome with joy when Eugene got free. When she faced down Ishamael that was also 🔥.. Im so ready for season 3
Just want to say I really appreciate your positive outlook on the show. I am just so overjoyed that wheel of time finally got picked up and has a show. Yes it would be awesome for it to all be just as long and exactly like the books but we have to be happy with what we get and keep a positive outlook. And you, my friend, are doing that. And It's very refreshing coming from many of the other videos and comments that I've seen. I just hope everyone shows the show continued support so we will get a full series and no cancelations. That the scariest thing for me.
So once again, thanks my man!
Wow Lauren. Almost at 35k. Congrat’s my friend! Well-deserved channel growth.
OMG Hopper. 😭 😭 😭 That one shot with Hopper on the ground bleeding giving Perrin puppy-eyes, and then of Hopper soaring toward T’A’R. Oh man. I was watching a reaction video today, and my wife and daughter heard me sniffle. My wife said, “Hopper again?” 🤣
Compared to Amazons Ring of Power this is a master piece. And Moghedian was quite good. I liked her. I wish they would do 12 episodes next season.
That's not how people felt about the first season of WoT. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they can treat RoP in a similar fashion and turn the ship around the way they have with WoT.
Lauren, thanks for all that you do!! I’ve learned a lot here these past couple of seasons and rewatching videos as I read the books has been a bonus. Please don’t burn out! We have plenty of time during hiatus to unravel/discuss and theorize.
I cried several times this episode....for hopper....for Matt...for Uno. I am glad I've never read the books... The expectations of the book readers are sometimes a bit much. It's an adaptation. I appreciate this channel because it is not negative.. Keep the reviews coming. ❤ Sit back and enjoy.
I totally get that, and honestly, you cried at all the same points I as a book fan did, so the same beats hit!
Will you read the books? Don't know how to translate this from Swedish to English, but did the show give you a "bloodied tooth" to read the books? Bloodied tooth meaning - are you ready to learn/experience more.
@nicodemus109 I'm sort of afraid 😨. Maybe AFTER the TV series. The story seems like it is well-written, and I am sure the books are stellar.
@@zv8381 afraid because you think watching the show will be worse when you know the books? because if so i think you have nothing to worry about. you already have the right mindset, this is an adaptation. I've seen a lot of really negative reviews from book readers, and it always baffles me too. The books are incredibly deep, Jordan's writing is extremely descriptive, to an absurd degree sometimes. In one book he uses almost a full page to describe a dress which then is never mentioned again. Point being, i dont understand what some of these people expect, there's no possible way to include everything and since some things get completely cut, that means other things have to be altered.
Anyway, as long as you keep the same mindset, I would 100% recommend reading them. After the show would mean in like 10 years. If nothing else read books 1 and 2, then you'll just be caught up and can still watch the show without having stupidly high expectations.
@@zv8381 That is probably the best approach. The books are good, really really good actually. I've read and listened to them several times in both English and Swedish. The show is an adaptation so it is very different and I like it, but the books are just in a different league. Do enjoy when you get there :)
I thought this episode was the best so far and totally exceeded my expectations... I thought it was going to be paced too fast and overdramatic in a bad way ... but actually, it was great ... few things I did not like were so minor that are even not worth mentioning ... I loved ending with introducing another forsaken .... the scene with Moghedien was amazing!
Really? I felt this was better than season one but one of the worst episodes of season two. The writing felt so rushed and even cheesy at times. I loved the episode where Egwene became a damane and was hoping to end the season on a high note, but it was a HUGE miss for me. :(
edited to add: I agree about the scene with Moghedien. That was really good! It was one of the few things I liked about this awful episode.
Lanfear already betrayed Ishy in episode 5, when she told Liandrie that "there are many paths to walk through the night", indicating that Liandrian should work for her instead of Ishy.
And in the finale Ishamael says the same line to Padan Fain about Lanfear.
My theory is that Mat will have lost his "hero" memories when the other Heroes vanished, and wanting them back, asking for them to be filled in, will be part of the deal with the Foxes.
snap - jinx - that's what I thought - ah well WAFO lol
By now I wonder if we even get them 😢
No. I'm confident that they have fully warped Mat's storyline past Rhuidean: He has his ashanderei, he has his skill with it, and he has his memories of past lives. Mat might still accompany Rand to Rhuidean, but I bet they moved all of Mat's stuff to now so they could spend that sequence focusing on Rand and the secrets he learns about the Aiel. I also do not think we will see the snakes and foxes in the show: Much like flicker-flicker, they're an easily "compartmentalized" plot that be safely removed without much affecting the larger story, and with so much story to tell, the writers are going to be looking for every opportunity to cut things.
I love this theory!!
I don't know. The complexity of the story with the snakes and foxes is difficult to capture on screen. It's not only Mat getting his memories and all back. The Tower of Ghenjei is linked to as well. I'm afraid the Snakes and Foxes will fall victim to "kill your darlings" to fit other more important and screen friendly things. But maybe there is a way to compress it! That might be. I hope they do Rhuidean right instead, but I can see them skip that as well..
I think Egwene al'Vere was able to stop Ishamael's attacks because he was weakened from releasing the six forsaken, this should have definitely made him weak cause we also see in the episode in the flash back that Lews Therin said it himself that he might not be able to break the seal. So breaking six seals would have definitely weakened him to some extent.
That is indeed a very good assessment I think! It completely makes sense, in addition to her training with the Seanchan that showed her she's more powerful than she was led to believe in the Tower.
Yeah, that's a great theory!
@@questionsroxelane3643great point!
That would have worked better if Lanfear knew that and forced ishamaelas hand, but she was surprised by moghedian in the end scene
Thank you so much for your informative reviews. I can tell that you're a genuine fan of the books and I appreciate your diplomacy while being critical of the show.
I loved it. The only thing I really didn't like was how Egwene single-handedly kicked Ishamael's ass. She shouldn't have stood a chance against the weakest of the 13. It should have been Rand holding him back to protect his friends. I adore the episode as a whole, but that completely took me out of it, I actually laughed out loud. It just makes no sense to me, Rand is the only person on earth who could match him other than Rahvin, who I assume has been cut from the show.
100% agreed with you thoughts about Rand. Rand spent more time on his knees being shielded in the last two episodes than fighting anyone.
Yes. I was really hoping for a strong end to season 2, but I ended up rolling my eyes over and over. The worst was Mat’s “I remember!” line that was so cheesy and anticlimactic.
@@KnittyElf I disagree, I thought the finale was fantastic except for Egwene somehow beating Ishamael. Mat's moments were the best, he really got to shine this episode, especially in that scene with the Heroes.. This finale was way better than season 1.
@@Jrdn357 I agree it was better than the season finale, but that’s because the season one finale was a 2/10 and this was a 4-5/10. Even ignoring the books, the writing for this episode was mediocre at best. It’s a real shame because that fantastic Egwene damane episode showed that they’re capable of better.
@@KnittyElf I completely disagree, I thought everything was great except for Egwene beating Ishy when it should have been Rand. You seem to be in the vast minority if you think this episode was bad, the whole Battle of Falme was awesome, especially Mat with the Heroes.
Good bro! Not many knows how much time and energy it takes to make these videoes. So keep it up! It's appreciated and inspirational. A thing I struggle with is the problems they keep giving themselves that requires screen time to fix. Moiraines "stilling" being the biggest. And also how they have the AUDACITY to tamper with the source material. Egwene healing a cindered Nynaeve in S1, and now fends of Ishamael until Perrin appears with a magic Uno shield. I mean wtf? They do so much right, but when they get it wrong OH BOY do they get it wrong
Thanks so much for this video! Watched you right after the show…I hope we don’t have to wait to long for season 3 😁
I hope so too!
I liked how you could see a difference in the fighting ability when Lan was bonded versus earlier in the season when he wasn't. Straight up catching arrows aimed at Moraine. As someone that read the books there is that boost when bonded. I am not sure that was how it was intended to come across, but that's how I took it to make up for the earlier stuff with him this season.
I did love this. Hopper broke me. I cried out at the scream and kept crying minutes after the scene. I knew it would come but perrin in trouble snd knowing he would save him and the eyes, I died. But everyone acted wonderfully and the bond coming back was beautiful. All the weaves were great in this. S3 needs to comes snd be 10 episodes!
yup. esp as animal lover and book lover where they make special connection :( it's been a long time since wolf and men hunted together.
In season two Rand’s sword has had a heron on the hilt. We’ve seen it before. Not sure if it was pointed out. I thought Rand got the burn from the one on the hilt.
He did get branded by the heron on the hilt. Lauren just hadn't seen the heron there; only on the blade and the scabbard.
So both hands are indeed branded.
@@judysonnenberg6237 I am pretty sure his hand got branded by the heron on the blade. It is on his right hand, and he was holding the blade with that hand.
I think they are doing the best with what they have, yes in the final episode their were some points where Nynaeve could have stepped in and reinforced the shield or she could have done some healing. However, I did like the aspect that no one really understands the prophesies because so much time has past, they have become twisted and changed like when the dragon was supposed to proclaim himself yet it was actually someone else for him. Probably could have done with two more episodes but I still really enjoyed.
Mat literally makes a spear that he then uses to magic his way out of a door
I think that's confirmation enough that we will see the Finns
I think the opposite is true: They've time-warped Mat's plot _past_ his encounter with the snakes and foxes: He has his ashanderei, and he has his memories of past lives. The snakes and foxes are an easily-compartmentalized plot that can be cut from the show without greatly affecting the overall story, and with so much story to tell, I doubt the show-writers would have removed the _need_ for Mat to meet the snakes & foxes, only to include them anyways. Moiraine is the only other character to really be involved in the snakes & foxes arc, and I very much doubt the show is going to remove Rosamund Pike from the show for six seasons like they did in the books :P
The fact they made his spear from a random stick and the dagger from Shadar Logath is so f’ed up a stupid to me.
15:15 Couldn't agree more. When Mat said that he remembered who he was, my heart sank. for the very same reason, it looks like they've sidestepped the snakes and foxes. Still, also like you, I teared up, mainly out of relief that Mat's character remained somewhat intact after they did him so dirty. :)
Been waiting for the real Matt to show up. I was like, there’s my boy! 💪🏽
Love the books but have no issue with the direction of the show. Matt’s character seems to have course corrected in that episode.
💯
Agreed… people keep comparing early-show Mat with late-books Mat. Thats not fair! He was a completely uninteresting character until halfway through book three. He’s definitely coming around in the show. Loved this episode!
I also liked the explanation of why he left them in S1, to go back for the knife, and Morainna probably thought the same and sent the reds after him. cool conclusion.
I liked it. It’s different from the book so it makes each difference a puzzle for me to go figure out.
There was just no time for foxes and snakes in the season. I did not mind the way he regained his memories, it gave time for more exciting things to happen. This was satisfying to me. I only hope season 3 continues the quality and flow. I expect it is too late for 10 or 12 episodes to be made in season 3 and we watchers want more!
I found Mat’s “I remember!” line and most of that entire scene to be so cheesy. I literally rolled my eyes at it.
@@KnittyElf I think it was actually one the best lines of the episodes, delivered so well by Mat's actor.
@@Saa_la I have no issue with the actor, but the line itself felt incredibly forced. Mat wonders if he’s as bad as other people say he is for basically two full seasons. Then he blows the horn and suddenly is like, “Oh, I remember! I’m a hero of the horn! I’m good!” It felt as cheesy as that similar scene with Gandalf in The Rings of Power. To each their own, though, I guess. 🤷🏻♀️
@@KnittyElf It's okay if the scene didn't work for you! To be honest, it could have been set up much better. Definitely worked for me though!
I really like your assessment of Nyneave. I do you instroduce in S1 as this great channler, full of raw power. To not knowing how to pull an arrow out of Elayne's leg?! It really felt they were clueless about what to do with her.
Matt blowing the horn was sweeeet. I cheered like he score the winning basket. That run into battle, I wanted to join them 😄
Honestly yeah. Every TV show knows that you at least have to break the fletching off before you push it through...
My take was that Nyneave was pretty traumatized by her actions torturing the Suldame and then watching and feeling her die. It seemed like Nyneave was a bit shell shocked and unable to act for that reason.
I loved Mat's arc finally! Rand's take down of Turac reminded me of Indiana Jones when he just shot the bad guy after much posturing ! The fact that they all just go poof with on blast. Cried so much over restoring the bond and Hopper dying
I thought the same thing... loved it
You stole this off another video..
I thought Rand controlling so many weaves at one time to pop all the Seanchan and Turok was a little out of his depths.... but i guess it's ok, rules for channeling are loosey goosey in the show. I mean Egwene put up a forceshield to protect from Ishy, that was the only thing I really shook my head at and said "Ok well that's just stupid".
I hadn't watched the video yet and when I did, I heard you say that it reminded you of Indiana Jones too! Was certainly that vibe. But upon reflection, I think it also reminded me of Rand last season practicing with his bow in episode 8. Rand is not a good swordsman. But he is an excellent archer. I re watched the scene and it looks like he used the one power as a flight of arrows which all hit the others dead on. And they all drop
@@patriciamiller1523 the irony is in the books, by this time, Rand IS a good swordsman. But he's also spent an entire book training with Lan and learning it.
As a fan who started with the show (currently reading the books), it's so refreshing to hear such a dedicated primarily book fan as you talk positively about the show and give us some insights from the lore etc. I feel like all the book readers hating on the show are just pushing show-people away from reading the books and creating this sort of big conflict instead of everyone just celebrating that universe. I'm so happy you (& others of course) understand the adaptation can't be a perfect replica of the books and the writers are doing so many amazing things, including in the changes they chose to do. Thank you for all your work 🙏
Perrin going full John Wick berserk on Bornhald was PEAK satisfaction
Nice Lauren, I'm thinking Mat goes through only one door at this point.
M had lots of research time to pick up on the past and prophesies.
Flying dragon worked for me.
Eggy killed it this Ep.
I am so glad when Matt uses his wits to outsmart Padan Fain and puts his dagger on a stick. 😄😄
It's different from the book but I still liked it, and then Matt blowing the horn was just icing on cake!!
The bad - Rand barely uses the sword forms and Ishy just stands there when he stabs him. Like, WTF?
I'd say ishy was just standing there because he actually WANTED Rand to stab him. He didn't want to live anymore anyway, and it's been like that for years. Thats why he said he found it beautiful to 'see nothing' after he was stabbed (indicating his long awaited death )
@@azeezatazeezzz So explain me then what's with trying to gentle Rand or killing Rand and turning his friends to the dark? If Ishy had a death wish, he could just ask LanFear to do it for him.
Besides, going by the lore, either it's the wheel or the dark one, Ishy will be revived again. So what's the point in seeking death? Rand, for now, doesn't know how to use balefire.
@@anantc88 revenge possibly. Rand being permanently cut off from the one power will be synonymous to him loosing a large part of himself and he'll feel in a 'almost alive almost dead state', and feel what ishameal felt but in a different version.
What I want to know: what happened to Ryma?? I was hoping we were going to see her again...
I'll only say one thing... it should have been a two-parter... I want more!
Agree...! WHY they insist on giving them only 8 episodes a season is terrible sense of business! I think this series could easily rival GoT if given the chance. But it simply can't be done with eight 1 hour episodes
Rand's changes were straight up awful and ruined what was pretty decent episode
Ishamael cannot beat Egwene's shield
Rand doesn't fight anyone or show his power
Ishamael lets Rand walk up to him and stab him
The climax was incredibly stupid
My take: 1) Egs was losing and being overwhelmed by Ishy until Perrin and the rest of the gang showed up. 2) As shown in the cold opening, Ishy clearly wanted to die (late-book accurate) and kind of gave up at the end when it was clear Rand wasnt going to turn. 3) The show is leaning in to the late-series theme of teamwork/friendship rather than it all being about Rand (“it was never about me”, AMOL). If they could have pulled off Ingtars confession in a meaningful way and the dragon at the end would have been 20% less corny, this would have been a 10/10 for me…
I agree. The episode was unfortunately full of anticlimactic, cheesy moments. The writers were not very good at building the stakes, which is a real shame after that fantastic episode where Egwene became a damane.
I really do love the moments that are pure fan service to us book readers. Nynaeve saying “you’ll curse the day your mother first kissed your father,” and Mat giving the “it’s time to roll the dice” battle cry in the old tongue were both super awesome to watch.
I just discovered your channel after watching the season 2 finale. Ive never read the books, having never even heard of them prior to the release of season 1, i just watched cause i love fantasy. But this 2nd season has made me decide to pick up the books.
I also just want to commend you on your extremely realistic expectation of a tv adaptation of your favorite books. Your self awareness of why you feel disappointed and also understanding that your hopes and dreams can NEVER be realised on-screen is an absolute breath of fresh air. The fantasy community has such a bad habit of crapping all over everything and constantly criticizing instead of appreciating these adaptations for what they are. So, thank you!
Great review and love the passion. I'm glad I haven't read the books because I thought the finale was incredible. For me, reading fantasy books afterward is always great entertainment while waiting for another season.
This season has been a major improvement on season 1. Im not as worried about the story changes as i was before. They made some bold choices but man they nailed the character beats. The pathos when matt blew the horn was beautiful. Knowing with proof he wasn't bad. Perryns transformation was handled so well also. Im so glad egwene freed herself. I will also say her hero moment with the shield was perfect. She wasn't going toe to toe with ishy but it still showed her strength in a sensible way that was right in her wheelhouse. The only thing that bugged me was the fast and lose way they have every aes sedai being a prodigious healer. It cheapens the talent. I loved this episode though. 8 forsaken is enough for tv.
It was Phenomenal!!!! OMG i was like this is the books but different, i was screaming, this was so freaking good!
Okay I just finished the finale and as a non book reader- just started the first book- it was great!
I loved Egwene freeing herself and showing so much power.
I hated whatever block Nyaneve has. It is frustrating
I hated seeing Hopper die. I have no clue what a flicker flicker means until you explained it.
I was pleased with Moiraine really tapping into such power and channeling from such a distance. I do think it was funny at how far away she dropped them off!
Lancear is just great. I am currently rewatching season one as I am reading the first book and I actually like some of the changes they made in that first episode
Such an amazing season 2 Finale! Thank God they nailed that 👍
I finally got the box set of the first 3 books😊You deserve all the support so excited to see where your channel goes💘 I
The heron has been on the handle of Rands sword all of Season 2, You have to look close but it can be seen.
ah going to have to go back and rewatch then!! they missed it in season 1 and i feel like it should have been a couple of comments as they walk into an Inn for example...just to point it out to the viewers, season 1 though had alot to work through
What kind of idiot grabs the blade, though? That's literally why there's a handle on the sword....
@@ArchlordZer0 That's how you actually do it in RL.... the top of teh blade isn't sharp, You push with the right hand above the guard, and guide with the left gripping the blade from above.
@@hammerhiem75 Go rewatch the episode. Rand had a death grip on the sharp part of the blade. I've trained with a katana (professionally). I've never heard or seen anyone do anything like that.
Nynaeve's arc started off so strong this season and then it fizzled out in the end.
Thank you so much for these reviews since i just found the show and loved binging it! And random comment, your hair (color and style) is GORGEOUS!!
The battle of Falme was incredible. It's the one time that the fast jumping of perspectives didn't bother me so much.
I LOVED Moghedian! It was not at all how I imagined her, but she was so incredibly sinister and had the spider aspect down.
Finally, Moiraine channeling on the beach was beautiful, powerful, and brilliant. Seeing her and Lan working together again, the complexity of her weaves, and the way it was shot were all perfect.
I'm very hopeful that this momentum will continue into season 3, and the quality will continue.
I loved everything about it!! This season is so much better.
I'm actually hoping we do see Lanfear helping the heroes (or at least Rand) in the future, she was definitely the best character this season in my opinion. I'm not an Egwene fan tho so I can see those who are really liking her arc.
Is it wrong that I like her? 😅
@@zv8381 I like her as well!
@@zv8381nah she’s the best character
I like her as well but I think she'll die in season 3.
I like her too. Egwene and her are my favorite characters
I am so glad that i found your channel. Your reviews and explainers are simply amazing. You are a true book fan. Please keep these videos coming. 10/10
Thank you! I've taken a bit of a break but plan on getting back to it in the new year!
Sorry, I usually agree with your positions on the various episodes, but not this time. I have been defending the show for two seasons, but I really hated this episode. I have come to the conclusion that Rafe really dislikes the character of Rand (and even the Dragon).
In two seasons, he has yet to give Rand a single big, dramatic moment, anything that demonstrates the power of the Dragon. He has given them to Egwene, he has given them to Nyneave and in this episode, he gave away Rand’s connection with the Heroes to Mat, apparently in order to make Mat an experienced warrior and general in his own right, instead of having that download. (I wonder if we’re still going to have the show trying to keep Mat’s line about not being a hero when that clearly no longer applies, does it?)
We don’t have the Dragon banner, we don’t have the Heroes saying that they follow the banner and fight for the Dragon. We don’t have his banner across the sky, instead, we have Moraine creating a fake image to fool the populace.
Rand doesn’t even fight Ishy at the end. We get essentially a repeat of the finale of last season, where Rand rejects the DO as he has done many times before. I can’t see any of the Forsaken being jealous of this guy.
And Ishy acting as if Rand put an end to his existence at the end. Is this the way the show is going? That the DO would let him go?
I don’t know how I feel about season three at this point, since I am not sure that Rafe will ever give us a truly powerful Rand (though I suspect he would love to give us his flaws in neon letters).
My thoughts exactly on Rand. They refuse to give him big moments. No big sword fight, no big fight with the power. He hasn’t done much of anything other than kind of -be- there. When Egwene jumped in against Ishy I had flashbacks to the season 1 finale disaster and just groaned.
Rand has to ramp up, he made quick work of Turak and his guards and killed Ishy on his own. Chill, he'll get there.
@@MasterRahl221 With Turak that takes away his sword fight. And with Ishy he lazily walked up and stabbed and Ishy who wasn’t even resisting…. It seemed so lazy. Come on, lol. He didn’t “kill him on his own” -they gave the big One Power moment against Ishy to Egwene. Rand just happened to be there
Are you sure in the books Rand sounds the horn? For some reason Matt stuck with me for that. Anyway, if they are cutting the Aelfinn and Eelfin out for Morgain, Lanfear and Matt, as I believe they are, they have to still incorporate the major consequences. Moraine struggling with loss of the power and Mat obtaining memories of heroes and battle masters. We're still early in the books and Rand didn't have many hero moment then.
@Swiergotka78 Mat is definitely the Horn sounder
I'm glad so many have enjoyed this episode & season 2 in general. I've also enjoyed this season much more than the first. I still feel like the writing is a bit sloppy & unfocused in some regards. I would have liked to have seen more build up to the horn, for example, as I didn't feel the impact of that moment like so many others have. I also think the visual of the ways has vastly improved. 👍
But don't get me wrong, that Hopper scene DESTROYED me. 😭🐺🏞
I've been lurking your channel for a while. First time commenting and plan to join your channel and Patreon. Your reviews have increased the Love I have for This show!!! Thank you so much!.
This episode is full speed ahead from the first minutes. IE!!! Not ashamed to say I CRIED😢
My main issue with the show was that the closed captions misnamed characters a couple of times, including saying Ingtar instead of Loial after Ingtar died!
I saw that too!
Great episode! I was also a big fan of pretty much every change they made from this books this episode
You had an amazing breakdown and review of this finale episode! Better than any other I have watched yet! You mentioned Masema and that was a detail I never noticed and was not mentioned by anyone else I have watched do a review on this episode as yet. Thank you for your excellent work! ❤❤
I think I need to let some of my “book brain” go, overall I really did like the episode. Rand killing Turak that way did disappoint me but at the same time he’s had no sword training and we saw how Rand with a sword turned out against that fade in ep4 (not good) lol. So having him kill Turak 1v1 in a sword fight just wouldn’t have been realistic. If anything having Rand kill Turak like that shows me that writers understand where Rand is in terms of his swordsmanship.
Mat blowing the horn was perfect as long as they still keep the snakes and foxes like you said.
Hopper and Perrin with him killing Geoff was great.
I’m okay with Egwene freeing herself, after ep 6 the pay off wouldn’t have felt right if someone else did it
I like the fire dragon, it’s different but I like it. And im okay with Moiraine channeling it I guess, like you said power levels just seem a bit all over.
But overall I really liked it, a strong 7/10 for me. I will need to re-watch.
Edit: I also think we will still get the flicker flicker at some point. Maybe rand trying to get them all to the Waste? 👀
Also it feels like the writers and Rafe especially does listen to fans and I’m sure he’s seen everything (good and bad) on social media and he’s probably willing to take things on board as feedback from people. Nearly 24 hours later my only real complaint with the ending was that Rand still hasn’t had his time to shine, the ending with Ishy was just too anticlimactic for me. Still enjoyed it though. Excited to see where season 3 goes. However I’m at the point where if I’m not in love with season 3 I’ll probably tune out.
I made a decision around episode 3 of season one that I would treat the show as its own thing and not stress over things that are different from the books. From that moment on my enjoyment went up immensely. From that point of view I felt this finale was perfect. Sure I would have loved to see a sword fight with Turok but the Indiana Jones moment made me laugh and it makes more sense than a kid who first held a sword a year ago beating a blade master. I thought after I finished the episode that I really enjoy how the show follows the broad strokes of the books but changes a lot of the details. It keeps me on the edge of my seat rather than just waiting for the next thing I know will happen.
100%… Rand beating a blademaster with a few months of basic training was absurd in the books, it would have been infinitely worse to have tried it in this episode…
same with me!
I had that very mindset from before S1 release, and I indeed enjoy the show way more than the majority of readers from what I've seen! Instead of expecting events, I'm wondering how they'll adapt them to still end up where they need it, and it has given me the same fun I had theorizing while we were waiting for the next book! Feeling of wonder that had mostly disappeared since 2013, and was rekindled around 2019 thanks to the show!
I wish someone would create an animated wheel of time adaptation that was completely book accurate but even more filled out with referenced scenes included.
That would be amazing!
@UnravelingthePattern absolutely would! I don't even need live action, just a true representation with real book depth.
I watched an interview just yesterday with Rosamund Pike and Josha Stradowski and Pike is one of the producers of the show and she explained that in season 1 they didn't know how to show the threads and weaves of channeling in the show so in season 2 that was a big thing for them to figure out and I think they did an excellent job at that.
the season finale was so amazing and awesome. I didn't mind the changed they made from the books, but It is interesting to see how things look in television compared to how you interpret them when reading the books. I imagined an open battle field with the Fallen heroes of the past riding from the heavens and crashing down on their enemies on horse back when I first read the books many years ago and I can't remember if that actually happened in the books or not but it was still a great finale.
The only thing that bugs me is we don't see much of Thom Merrilin and he was one of my favorite characters. We only saw him in 1 or 2 episodes in season 1 and I remember he had a much bigger role to play in the stories if I'm not mistaken.
Good news! Thom will be back in season 3!
@@UnravelingthePattern That is Awesome!
That's how Imagined it too, but I appreciated the direction they took with centering on the tower in a strategic and prophetic sense, and how the scale still felt large with the Seanchan vs whitecloak dynamic
Great episode, only complaint was Rand's fights getting cut. No Rand v Turak and no Rand v Ishy (really). Pretty disappointed with how they're handling Rand's power. At this point if I was a show watcher I would have no idea why the Dragon Reborn is even important. If they wanted to make Egwene the main character they should've just made her the Dragon and be done with it...
Overall 8/10
I get that, but even in the books he was still becoming himself, and he had a lot of moments early on in the books that did not get explained and made him seem so inexplicably overpowered. I think he'll really come into his own over the course of the adaptation of Shadow Rising. That's where he has major epiphanies and training
Take all the time you need, your videos are amazing, this is the reason why, I think, your channel is picking up rather than UA-cam algorithm. It doesn't matter how long we'll have to wait for more content, what matters is you have never disappointed. Thanks for your work and dedication :)
I don't think Moiraine has broken the Three Oaths to destroy the Damane ship holding Rand's shield. The Oath said "not to use the One Power as a weapon except in last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai". I think Moiraine is already feeling threatened by the Seanchan soldiers attacking them. Its just she directed the One Power against the Damane ship instead of those soldiers. The books might not have intended it to be like that, but I think its a loophole in the wordings of the Oath that the show has taken advantage.
It is not this part of the oath it is the part about Darkfriends and Shadowspawn.
@@eeeee6717 That is also a possibility, though I think the show did not include that part, since Moiraine didn't mentioned it to Egwene. But if that's the case, then it would mean Moiraine knows, or at least is convinced, that the people on the ships are Darkfriends. That is possible if she believes that if they are holding a shield for Rand, then they are under the command of Ishamael.
I loved this recap! First one I watched on this channel :)
I really like when you point out cinematic aspects as well, it makes me think back to the episode myself and see it through a different lense.
On the point of Rand not having enough heroic moments: I agree, but I also think it's smart to give more of them to Egwene and Nyneave. We all know that as the dragon Rand will become the most impressive channeled of the bunch and I enjoy that the dynamic between the male and female side is building and slowly changing. Also love the girl power moments, ngl! Egwene freeing herself was such a good change and Rand recognizing that reminds the audience that he has respect for them. And in a world where he will outdo her in terms of power soon, that initial respect is important for his character.
I just don’t understand Rand stabbing Ishy. Maybe it was just bad choreography but Rand literally just slowly walked at him and stabbed him while Ishamael stared at him. Made no sense. It was like Ishys brain stopped working.
Ishy is already planning his comeback at this point.
He wants to die… he seemed to kind of give in at the end there… my take at least…
Felt the same. Like something went wrong with that scene, the cutting or the CGI... and Ishi's words when he died are bugging me too. Why was Lanfear not dead after being stabbed with Rand's sword but Ishy was?
I was so worried by the first 3 episodes of Season 2. I thought we were going to get a continuation of the story telling from Season 1 which, as a fan of the books, was very disappointing. After Season 1 I wasn't excited by Season 2 and only started to watch it as I was ill in bed, after 6 episodes were already avaiable. Thankfully the story finally seems to be getting some traction and momentum and I'm actually excited for Season 3. All in all, this was a big improvement from season 1 and I can only hope it continues to improve.
I want to thank you for the work you’ve done on the Wheel of Time series. I couldn’t keep anything straight in my head the first four episodes of season 1 when it came out, and gave up.
I decided to try it again now that 2 is out, and have found your recaps and the 101 playlist extremely helpful. I couldn’t enjoy this show without your help.
I'm so glad it was helpful!
You give the absolute best reviews, analysis, deep dives, etc on this epic saga. Take care of yourself first, it’s so important. You are very appreciated!!! ❤❤❤
Anyone else think Moraine broke the oaths when she attacked the ship ?
not necessarily, no.
aes sedai can use the one power to fight when they are in defense of her life or her warders.
which she was.
she just directed the weaves elsewhere
Book Moiraine would allow innocent people to die if it meant keeping the Dragon Reborn safe too.
@@UnravelingthePattern I agree with this. She certainly would allow them to die. But according to the oaths, she is simply unable to use the power as a weapon against them. She can only use it against dark friends, shadowspawn, or in the last defense of herself, another AES Sedai, or her warder. None of those apply to her attacks on the ships. She admits that she doesn’t know whether the ones in the ship are innocents or not. She is protecting Rand from being shielded, but Rand is not AES Sedai, nor is anyone else alive on the tower.