Yo peeps. Some stuff was factually inaccurate in this video. Despite having someone fact check my script, and me redrafting constantly, we just miss some things sometimes. *Only way to get back health is close-range damage and megahealth pickups* Also Parrying restores HP and Stamina. I just missed this because parrying was not too relevant to this level in particular. *Splicoins** Can happen with any base-pistol. Not specifically only the green base pistol *Power Slams deal damage* Not more than a regular slam. Nor is there an increased area. This was actually added because my fact checker mentioned it. So I believed them without much testing it myself. **Three coins actually results in 4 enemies hit, not 6** Actually, it is variable depending on how many pistol bullets hit coins. 4 if one. 5 if two. 6 if three. All those previous examples don't really influence the effect on the 4-2 route so I didn't rigorously look over those points meticulously. I apologize for that. One more thing **CLICKBAIT?!?!?!?** Not really, I advertised a breakdown of 100% 4-2 run, and I delivered on that. There... is just also a 14 minute DLC just added onto the end lmao. Can get if you don't wanna stick around for that section and it's fine if you aren't entranced with the premise. Thats just a section i really wanted to talk about because I'm passionate about, wanted some attention drawn to it, and they are issues I want addressed by 1.0. Nothing more to it really.
i have lots of complaints about this video but the line "framerate is only a factor in the secret levels" is actually pathetic, 2-3 3-1 3-2 4-2 5-1 7-1 7-2 7-3 7-4 are majorly affected by fps. also if deadcoins get banned the setup will just differ and we will find another instakill that often are more boring and rng banning deadcoins would only hurt categories like full game
Hakita actually did change the game for speedrunners, because the doors would open to slow on 1-4 stoping speedruners moving at high speeds and hakita made an update to make them open faster
Honestly the Boomer Shooter genre is soooo good right now. We got games like Dusk, Ultrakill, Cultic, Prodeus, Turbo Overkill and many many more. The overall quality of these games is just insane
I have some thoughts about the stuff in this video. First off, your point about the entrance room, if two runners do not have the same skill with regards to gaining speed, they will not have the same time even if it means there is more leniency in the start room. It also takes away from potential strategies with regards to switching weapon variations, as any time gained from doing the more optimal strategies would be offset by the time loss from switching weapons. Overall it would reduce the options in the speedrun. Sure, other games do it differently, but this way works for ultrakill, and adding the time spent in the entrance room would make the game a lot more frustrating to run, along with not really making the game any better to watch or for casual players. Your point on FPS stuff, yeah, that needs to be changes. Check jumps are a Pandora's box that hasn't been opened because running the game at 30fps and below sucks, so top runners just don't. Now as for deadcoining, I kind of agree, except for your point about unintended mechanics. It frankly, does not matter whether or not it is intended. Half the speedrun is unintended, from ultraboosts to slam storage, the difference between these unintended mechanics and stuff like zoomies is that, zoomies was patched, the rest weren't. If you want to ban something, there should be an actual reason other than "dev didn't intend it". Your points about it not being fun or interesting, that's more than enough. Like come on, you can't contrast the unintendedness of deadcoining with the v2 kill, a kill that abuses the fact that V2 is vulnerable specifically only to coin punches and ricoches during the cutscene, something that was very obviously intended. Deadcoining has received changes, specifically changes with regards to nerfing the absurd style of you could at one point get through deadcoining. Yet, the actual mechanic remains. That points towards the devs not wanting it gone, just like they did with slam storage, the V2 coin stuff, and every other unintended thing the devs have just kinda left in the game. And frankly, if you are going to complain about people abusing unintended mechanics for speedruns, there are so, so, so many other options to pick from, things that have been patched out. Zoomies dominate the any% IL leader boards, 2-4 runs use the OP red revolver patch, 7-4 uses the patched lobotomy kill. These are all things you could make the case for abusing unintended things for speedruns, because they were removed, but not only has deadcoining been left alone for years now, it has received changes to fix the more broken aspects of it with regards to style. If it the devs didn't want it in, they would have removed the mechanic then.
Was enjoying a video and then BOOM very niche change that can be avoided by running your own category request before the game is even complete for the average player jumpscare
People like Raitro are why we get new speedrunning categories lmao, he never said that there was a correct way, just that deadcoin setups are lame as hell. And I agree.
hey! i wanted to address some of the concerns you had about this games speedruns, and hopefully give you some insight onto why things are the way they are as for the starting room, i honestly don't think having the timer start immediately adds much, if any depth to the run at all? there aren't really any solid options for immediate bursts of speed, and overall limits your options for entrances. In return, fixing this issue with an autosplitter would cause a ton of problems, no matter which of two options you go with in current IGT, the timer does a lot of very weird things. clearing certain arenas slows the timer down, certain cutscenes slow the timer down, certain cutscenes can be skipped to jump the timer forward, weapon wheel does a ton of fucked shit that im honestly not even 100% sure the specifics of anymore, and it depends on patch too. trying to implement all of this into an autosplitter would be insanely difficult, if not impossible. the problem is that the actual impossible thing to implement would be hitstop. hitstop does a lot of really fucked up shit to the games timer, and it depends on what you hit the enemy with in the first place. all of this would be completely impossible to properly add to an igt autosplitter, since if you're adding the red room time, you wouldn't be able to just steal the in game timers time, which is what our autosplitter currently does as far as im aware. so your two options are either go on the insane endeavor of adding all of that to an autosplitter, or ignoring all of it instead, which has completely massive routing ramifications, as any big forms of hitstop just get completely gutted. it would require rerouting of literally every level in the game, as now formerly slower strats will become faster because of hitstop now being timeloss. This is way too big of an ask for something that is debatably even a good change to the game, and that's ignoring potential problems im not as familiar with, like the potential inaccuracy of livesplit compared to the in game timer, and the potential extra barrier to entry (albeit minimal), it would add. as for fps issues, there's unfortunately a LOT of fps dependent stuff due to unity just being kinda bleh, and i agree with you on the fact that its not a good thing, i just think that actually fixing the problem is a lot more complicated than just making everyone play on one framerate. its very possible im completely incorrect on this, however its not something i really feel qualified to talk about in detail. as for deadcoining, there's a lot of layers to this, so bear with me. i would like to preface this with the fact that the types of deadcoin setups you refer to here, i do not particularly enjoy doing. i find them relatively boring, which is why i don't commonly run the levels they're featured in. however, i also understand that a majority of these, if not all of these, are kind of a necessary evil, simply due to the way enemy ai works in this game. enemies, with some mild exceptions, are extremely random in this game, bosses included. because of this, a lot of strats are intentionally routed to try and improve consistency, along with generally being fast. there are some strats, some arenas, some things that are unfortunately still rng, but we normally try and minimize it as much as possible, because nobody really likes doing everything right and then losing the run because the game decided to spit out a 1 instead of a 2 so the strat you had just doesn't work anymore. the reason i bring this up is because for a majority, if not all, of the fights that currently use deadcoining in the way you described, would be absolutely plagued with rng if not for deadcoining, and the biggest factor to this is the fact that the extremely high damage combos you might see used in 0-3, or just scattered around sandbox on cerbs, get completely fucked over by a moving target, making them near impossible to perform, and if possible, extremely rng heavy. nobody wants that, including me. as much as i don't personally enjoy doing it, i will always rather deadcoin over slamming my head against a wall waiting for good rng, which is the only other option you have if you want top times. now the reason i've been very specific about the type of deadcoining im talking about, is because deadcoining has a lot more uses than just in boss setups like that, and a majority of them, if not all of them, are awesome to watch, and if they got completely removed from the game, would be a massive shame, both for spectators, and for players. if you wanted to make an arbitrary rule for it, it would have to be unnecessarily complex to not have either loopholes or make sense, and really just isn't worth the effort of doing so, as it would just end up making runs worse. this game's speedruns do have a lot of issues, i'd be the first one to tell you that, but i don't think these are whats truly wrong with the game at the moment, and i think what is is either unfixable, deeply rooted, or very complicated to fix, especially at this point in time. i just hope that by 1.0, this game is the best it can possibly be, and i hope you feel the same.
i second this, and i fully agree with the stance that although there are definitely problems with the current state of the game for speedrunning, i almost all of the points brought up in this video are just not currently issues that exist with the game. i think this video honestly does WAY more harm that it does good for the community as it just spreads misinformation about both the game's mechanics and what's healthy for the scene and gives both speedrunning the game as well as the game in general a bad look.
the funny thing is, is that the game doesnt even track igt in the red room, and combining RTA and IGT for an autosplitter would be awful to implement (livesplit has inaccuracies sometimes mostly bc it updates the time last, and itd also suck to code). i could make one to demonstrate how bad itd be, and also it would make resetting the level inconsistent asf and make it a hell to code while keeping it accurate
Hey Miona. Thanks for watching, I'll respond to a few of your points below: **Timer would be a pain to implement** Ehhhh that depends on how you do it. You could just time RTA and start/stop the timer at loading screens. And that would be the simplest. Also, I hate the argument of livesplit can be innacurate. Because the IGT timer can be inaccurate too! In fact, you describe the ways in which it is in this post. So that will be a factor of every timing method so it can't really be used against my preferred timing method. Doing an Livesplit timer still makes it the most fair by design. **Timestop** I actually had a section adressing timestop in one of my initial redrafts. I think I ended up tossing it out, because I would be fine with a timer that counts hitstops or doesn't. If it does, well that means we can keep doing all our "hotgirl shit" with no time penalty. But having it count would incentivize not going for hitstop actions which adds alot of depth to the routing and the gameplay decisions. Since I was fine with both scenarios, I ended up just not even mentioning it. Also, just cause it would change routes isn't really a factor I take much stake in. Cause that ignores that rerouting, is actually quite fun! So I wouldn't mind it. **FPS Issues** I'm glad everyone seems to agree on the general thing of FPS cap should be enforced. I think it's just a matter of debate which is a good stopping point. I would prefer any cap really. As long as it's not an unreasonable one like 1000 fps or something like that **Deadcoins, pt 3, the revengence with a reckoning** Yeah, I know deadcoins remove RNG. However dealing with RNG is a very good skill to have in a run. Sure this means it isn't consistent. Like I said in another comment, i'm fine with deadcoins outside of these quick-boss kills. It's just that deadcoining enables these quick boss kills to be a thing. So the more fundamental issue is that there is instakills in every category. Which I get into in my "no boss introduction" part of the video. **Nobody wants to deal with RNG** Hi. I'm nobody. I like dealing with the RNG patterns. I think that's a good skill to have. I think it's fun even. Of course it depends on the type of RNG, of which, I think Ultrakill boss-fight patterns are the good kind. I even say explicitly that it's matter of preference if you like long setups or the depth of the fight. Like I get that some people might like majority opinion and what most runners think. But you can't just appeal to "lmao, nobody thinks that way" as a point, because it isn't. That's an Appeal to Majority fallacy. Point is, is that this is a preference. You kinda just assert your preference as fact and that everyone thinks the same. My thing is.. why not both? Why not have a "Deadcoinless" category and an filthy RNG no-deadcoin run? We can have our cake and eat it too in this scenario! **Mistakes in video** More in really directed to the comments in this post, not really the post itself. Yeah, I got a few things wrong, but nothing that was too detrimental to the point of the video. I pride myself on honesty which is why all my factual errors are in a pinned comment. I get being upset with things being wrong, however keep in mind i'm human and will just miss things. It's not of mal-intent. And hell, I try to prevent it with multiple redrafts and getting someone to proofread my scripts. Somethings just slip through the cracks. I get that noone wants mistakes, however I did act out of love of the game to make this breakdown, and lot of my explanations are very understandable. I think the breakdown sections of this video do wayyy more good than those small mistakes. Cause you have to consider the net influence on something, not just the detriments of the thing, right? At least when considering if it's good as a whole. Also, just gonna say this, some of this video paints Ultrakill speedrunning in a bad light by design. It does that by intention because the timer stuff in the 2nd part of the video is genuinely stupid in the context of full-game speedruns. Not necessarily a fault of the community for initially relying on it, but it will be our fault if we continue to use it. Healthy competition thrives on fairness. So me seeing something unfair will understandably get me riled.
@Raitro_ One fairly major issue with rta would be hardware locking Some things in the game cause major lag on lower end PCs For example nailsbombs In 6 2 for example a nailbomb set up is used and on my pc my screen freezes for like 0.1~ seconds while on some others pcs it freezes for 0.5~ (for a boss level a gap that big is huge) With igt this is a non issue since the timer isn't running while the game is frozen but with rta it wouldnt be.
Hello! I noticed a few key things that aren't actually true in this video and misrepresents ULTRAKILL speedruns: For ng100, you do NOT need to play on brutal, in fact you are allowed (for now) to run at any difficulty you want. However, VIOLENT tends to be the preferred difficulty, since it is objectively optimal compared to other difficulties due to the way enemies behave and bosses not having the additional 33% hp increase brutal provides. You mention that "slide hops" only increase you in speed when you are beneath a "speed cap", this isnt really correct. Sliding itself has a maximum speed, so SLIDE jumping will cap you at this speed, but this does not mean the game itself has a speed cap, there are ways around the maximum slide speed and I feel like this should have been talked about. Second, you mention that coins can only be split via the green revolver, but this isnt actually true! You can split coins via any default revolver type. Also, its not like the split state is useless if shot with a slab variation, the interaction is simply changed to increase the amount hits that come from the shot (this is a very simplified explanation of how slab splitshots work but you get the idea) You mention that killing enemies at point blank is the only way to get health back on top of mega health pickups, but this isnt true, as the game heavily focuses on you parrying enemies to refill both your health bar and stamina. You missed a VERY important part of the run, at 8:45 you mention that 3 coins in split state kill 6 enemies, but this is, again, factually wrong, as when you shoot one of the three coins, it splits and hits the other two coins, causing only 4 splits. When you talk about the green shotgun you mention its overpump state to be a punished. This really shows a clear lack of engagement with the game, as the overpump is widely known as one of the best weapons in the entire game. This isnt a "punishment" as the devs clearly incentive you to use the explosion to your own benefit. Anything in this game that is player made is not a punishment, but rather, an extra option for both runners and casual players. You also mention that the shockwave generated with powerslams deal damage around the landing spot. This is just incorrect, in order for a slam to do any sort of damage, you need to land on TOP of an enemy, otherwise the generated shockwave will simply launch them up if possible. At 23:20 you say / show that deadcoins add +2 power to the chain each time, this is incorrect, as only the power from the hitscan (in this case the revolver) is added, so in reality it is only a +1 damage increase. Following the deadcoin topic, you mention for sisyphus that "the max damage you can do is set up sawblades near him while he's monologuing, throw coins in the air right as he spawns, and then hit that with a blue piercer pistol shot" This is VERY incorrect, i understand that maybe you were just trying to show an "easy" deadcoinless kill, but the way this was worded implies that there arent other faster, more complex and WAY harder kills that also demolish this boss' entire hp. Also following this topic, you mention that the v2 instakill follows an "intended mechanic" which is, again, plain wrong. First of all, the optimal kill for v2 in 1-4 DOES involve deadcoins (lots of them!), second, v2 taking damage from coins during it's cutscene was never an intended mechanic, it was kept in the game because people liked it. Deadcoins are an intended mechanic, as hakita knows about them and has made changes to the tech itself in the past, so the entire section is just wrong as hakita has both acknowledged and balanced deadcoining and coin power while intentionally keeping it in the game (with speedrunners in consideration!) In 24:06 you state that "there is no depth to the mechanic" in regards to deadcoinning. This statement i feel is very problematic, as it's cherrypicking the few scenarios in which you perform the long "boring" deadcoin chain, and purposefully leaves out the (not niche) scenarios in which you deadcoin mid arena to clear an arena of enemies. The best example I can give of this is the recent 5-1 any% record (done by @GothMiona), which managed to beat a previously patchlocked world record that used a rocket clip with the use of insane mechanical execution. Everything I have pointed out so far has been objective wrong stuff, but there are multiple other personal things that I could comment on that I believe are incorrect, but since those fall more on the subjective side than factually wrong, I will be leaving them out from this comment. Wishing for you to get the extra curiosity to dig a little bit deeper and learn the true depth of the mechanics of this game, happy running and good luck with your future videos!
Hey Asunder! Thanks for watching! I'm gonna respond to a few of your points below. *For ng100 you don't need to play on brutal** This is true. It's not what I'm talking about. This video showcases 100% NG Brutal IL for the a breakdown of game mechanics. Not general 100% NG. I never once implied it. So I don't know where you got that Brutal was a requirement for that run as a whole. It was a requirement for the sake of the video, because it's the core premise! **Speedcap** I feel like this is just a technicallity? From that section I thought it was clear that the speed increase was in reference to slide hopping, not at all a reference speed cap. There is a speed cap for slide hopping, because sliding has a cap speed. This may just be a fault of me having some clunky wording that's causing this confusion, but I don't think what I said was wrong. **V2 Example** Discussed this in Jambott's comment. But yeah, I think due to just how simple it is to "punch a coin lmao" that the V2 case is more intricate than I let on in this video. **Can split with default pistol, not just sharp shooter** Actually didn't know this whatsover. Thanks for the correction! I'll add it to my pinned comment **Parrying/Coinsplit/powerslams** Yeah, just stuff I got wrong. Luckily these specifics don't really matter for the case of it really doesn't change my analysis of the level / the opinion peace, it's really just more embarassing more than anything else, but I don't think these flaws get in the way of my conclusions so I'm fine with having them exist in the video. **Overpump** I definitely agree that in high level play the overpump explosion is a tool to be used! From a casual perspective, it seems very punishing for no reason tho, hence the line. I would have touched on how Speedrunners abused Overpump-I-Frames if it was really used more than once in this level particularly as it is very cool. **Deadcoin damage specifics** Yeah, I was unable to find the exact damage numbers for this section, so I just used "+ number" here to demonstrate the number of damage increase sources. Not necessarily meant to be accurate from a numbers code. Just enough to demonstrate what the concept is. As for it being known by Hakita, I wasn't able to find one acknowledgment of it when I did some digging. But wasn't really convinced by any of what I saw. Also it's hard to search for, so I might missed some discord log or something. All my points do still stand about depth. **No depth** I think in the context of my examples this work. If I brought up deadcoining in use of non-boss levels, I would have probably clarified. But yeah, I think I agree with you outside of boss fights. I just only touch that segment because I actually didn't know about it being used in general combat and neither did my fact checker. Depth, of course being the definition of skill expession, and having an instantskill setup does cap skill expression. Unironically, I appreciate the "um ackchually" of this comment alot. Thanks for fact checking me! Thanks for watching and good luck with your runs!
@@Raitro_ for it being known by hakita, he nerfed coin punch setups by making it have a cap, while keeping deadcoining the same He also said this relating to it: “nah the coin juggling thing was too easy, deadcoining is weird and hard so that's probably fine” And skill expression for deadcoin kills is based off of how fast you can do them, for p-1, the theoretical minimum is a 0.2s kill, while the best we’ve had by a human is 0.4, so we still have to reach the skill ceiling before that becomes a valid point
Runners here have also brought up how hitstops are accounted for by the timer and that this is a benefit to the community, and I wanted to give an example of how. See, there is a theoretical instakill for the swords machine in 0-3 using the slarp, that might be faster than current strats, but in real time, it might end up being slower due to the amount of hitstops the slarp produces. This is also the case with kills in 7-4 and P-1 that use the slarp. as such, in this case and with other bosses, the slarp would be avoided like the plague, since its hitstops would constantly produce time loss, which would limit the creativity of runners and hurt the skill-expressiveness you’d like to see more of in boss fights. IL’s would move from optimizing high-dps combos and exploiting V1’s arsenal to the fullest in favor of minimizing hitstops, which just isn’t a fun way to play the game. Imagine top-level players losing a WR-paced run to accidentally getting too many hitstops from +INTERRUPTIONs on fodder, how much fun would that be???
Wouldn't be the first time a mechanic was removed, remember when you could Whiplash a Core Eject? And then it was removed, granted I don't know why it was removed, was it too powerful or something else, but still
It was removed bc it’s useless and was annoying af, however rocket whipping (aka FUPs) is kept bc you can double your damage and do one of the biggest explosions in the game too
i know some other runners have made good points already but, some main (easy) ones i want to say are with timing being added to start rooms, a good example is a custom level that had this on accident - it completely removed any variety from entering a level as it would just be optimal to dashjump as soon as you touched the ground. 26:42 same with deadcoining I dont see the point in suggesting removing something that you personally dont find fun/intersting, when a large majority of runners prefer it and find it a healthy part of the game 29:05 us runners actually have a lot of close contact with the development of the game and a lot of feedback is shared
I talked about all of this in other comments except for these couple **Completely remove variety* Yes. It would. But it increases fairness. I'm not one who values variety at the cost of fairness. ** Us runners actually have a lot of close contact with the development of the game and a lot of feedback is shared** This isn't really a factor. I more touched on the point that in general speedrunners shouldn't expect the developer to change something that only affects them: < 1% of the audience. Not if that was actually the case. I do know there are a few speedrunners who gain access to betas for testing purposes. But getting advice and feedback for speedrunners, and implementing gameplay changes specifically for them are two different points really. Should developers implement speedrun specific changes? This is a whole can of worms that my video was talking about. And I settle around the camp of "Can't really expect it to happen." If it does happen, good. I like that. But it's beside the point of that sentence Thanks for watching tho! Hope ya enjoyed
@@Raitro_ what i was trying to get at with the entrance thing is that the point you made (iirc) was that anyone could do the same thing and get the same result. Its the exact same if you started the timer; people would immediately just dashjump as soon as they landed. all it would do is make the game more boring and give us free timeloss with the contact with deva thing, i was just pointing out that we do have the ability for thing (usually very obscure) to get fixed/nerfed in our favour
@@Raitro_ It has nothing to do with fairness. At all. A strategy being unfair means something that is not accessible to everyone, and the grace period in the entrance room is, by definition, accessible to everyone. Therefore it is fair. Your point here is entirely moot.
i totally agree about the whole timer issue you have. i think the best way to sort it out would be to have different settings for the timer, similar to how dead cells does it. a "speedrun timer" setting where its always going, that way it just adds up all the times on each level and thats your final time, but it only activates when you gain control of v1, along with the default setting of how it is now.
I love how this video is perfectly plausible for people who've never played the game yet still remains professional enough for experienced players, great video 👍
honestly I think that the problem with deadcoining would be entirely fixed by just the ingame timer being changed to not increase when skipping a boss intro. That way actual dps would be encouraged, and also give a place for all those ludicrously high damage railcoin punch setups
honestly, i think with deadcoins, maybe it should be limited to like 5 at which point the coin disappears, but when it does it should do a sizeable chunk of damage, make a specific satisfying crunchy noise and have a style bonus so it becomes an intentional and balanced mechanic, cause i think the idea of it is pretty cool, it just has a kinda boring implementation
Just create another category, no need to change game mechanics that have been around for a long time and don't do anything wrong just to make speedruns "more interesting" to watch
The thing about deadcoins is that it wouldn't be problem if at least the following things apply: 1. The dialogue time would apply so skipping the intro would save time. 2. You could skip the dialogue in the NG category 3. There's a speedrun mode which would do the following: Skips any boss intros and other stuff, and makes time start the moment you land after falling down the shaft. 4. Deadcoin, if not removed, would have its own cap You know, I wish the game had P+ rank or something that would be obtained if you kill every enemy (even secret encounters), and collect all secret orbs in one run. Perhaps a new style bonus threshold as well. That would be fun to watch and execute.
1a) RTA is not used for NG100% to account from time in the entrance: its because on a brand new save file you cannot have the tab menu up to show the timer upon first playthrough of a level, and since certain strats require you to actually restart a level midway through (5-1 requires you to both grab orbs that are underwater, and complete the challenge of "not touching any water") there is no way to actually accurately determine the real time, so for that category in particular we opt for RTA. Your example is wrong here. 1b) Your analogy is not correct; it's as if you're in a race and everybody you are racing against can start at any point behind the starting line, just like you. 2) LiveSplit is not a good tool to use for the end-all be-all of timing in ULTRAKILL. Even for multilevel runs, you still have to add up the time manually regardless of if you have LiveSplit or not, because LiveSplit only goes to the hundredths of a decimal point, whereas the in game timer goes the thousandths place. Programming a timer which will innately be inaccurate just to include the starting room would only cause more problems than it solves, and the problem it's solving is genuinely one I have not seen another speedrunner have an issue with in my 1.5yrs of running this game. If anything, the one instance of a custom level where timer started before the door opened actually caused a few issues on its own, so trying so recreate it would be a pointless endavor. TL;DR exponentially effort for less accuracy to solve an issue that isnt even an issue and has actually caused issues in the past. 3a) Regarding manipulation of FPS to make it lower, I do believe it to be disingenuous to mention that strategies that occur by manipulating framerates to be low are already banned under the rules. 3b) While I agree with your position that an FPS cap should be placed on 2-S specifically, it should be worth mentioning that 2-S as an individual level category pretty much exists as a meme category that nobody really takes seriously. In NG100% runs, the time loss between the a capped and uncapped FPS run is so negligible that in the grand scheme of things no NG100% runner really cared enough to worry about it (worst case scenario, its 10s in a near 2 hour run). Though it is worth mentioning that it is something we are considering for full game release when all the current boards are wiped and archived. 4a) Your own examples regarding "kills using intended mechanics pushed to extremes" are literally wrong. Firstly, by your own admission, your 4-2 Insurrectionist kill uses the unintended slam store mechanic (which is especially ironic since the optimal kill does use entirely intended mechanics). Secondly, the ability to damage V2 with coin punches and ricoshots before its healthbar appears is also an unintended mechanic. In regards to deadcoins, to quote your defense of slam storage use: It is known by Hakita [and all members of the dev team] and was purposefully still left in. 4b) There are non-deadcoin Sisyphus kills I have used that can instantly get him to 25% (3 oversaw 30 blue saw trap + quad coin slab piercer shot + screwdriver punch) which can then immediately be finished off with a cannonboost and red gauge jackhammer shot. You fail to realize that a quick insta kill is NOT the only use of deadcoining in P-2; deadcoining at the split window actually increases style along with it. This is important because, if you do all the other encounters of the level optimally, you have a high risk of NOT beating the level with the proper style requirements. This technique removes a massively annoying RNG factor of a level, which is why many runners prefer it. 4c) It should be worth mentioning that deadcoining as a strategy only really affects three levels: P-1, P-2, and 6-2. The few other levels that utilize it do so at a very little time save anyways. Even in the few levels that do heavily utilize it, it does not save as much time as you believe it does 4d) The "no technical depth" argument regarding P-2's deadcoin is just outright wrong as properly maintaining a split deadcoin chain while also maintaining magnets for 30 blue and 3 overheat saws are still extremely precise and require a level of knowledge and skill in order to pull off.
22:44 there actually is a cap and I think it’s like 5 dmg or smthn (I love this video also I feel like not enough people make ultrakill speedrun breakdown videos)
of your 3 concerns i can understand the first two, but your concern about the deadcoin is that the speedrun technique… is too fast? If you want to test combat skills in speedruns then yes they absolutely are, but for a lot of people it’s purely competitive. but what do i know, my best 1-4 time is 17 seconds :P
I think deadcoining should simply just have a damage cap, higher than any other setup, as it's a harder skill, but lower than the FULL health of any boss.
At 11:57 you say you can only see 4 guns on screen, but while they’re firing the recoil lets you see at least 2 more. V1 simply attaches each arm horizontally. :)
I agree with your opinion on dead coining. I know that it’s a very difficult tec to pull off but thats just it: it’s tec. And honesty I don’t care if it takes longer to fight the boss normally i enjoy fighting the bosses in this game and skipping them feels cheap. And due to how difficult the tec can be to pull off it makes the runs very reset heavy right at the end. TLDR I dislike dead coining because I like the bosses
I saw your Doom god run video and loved it, but I forgot to subscribe so I didn’t see you for a while. I’m glad I found this video because I love Ultrakill and think more people should play it. I’m glad to have subscribed after seeing this video. Thank you!!!!!
6:49 the game does not consider a corenuke to be one big explosion there are two explosions, the one from the malicious railcannon and the one from the core (which becomes twice as large as the malcannon explosion) 11:18 the shockwave doesn't deal damage, only direct hits from the slam do the shockwave just launches enemies upward
I think I now understand why so many people can’t stop speedrunning ultrakill. It is THE first person movement shooter. Also, can’t wait for the ghostrunner vid. I’m so excited that u run that game, it’s one of my favorite games I’ve ever run.
If you want to see more of the speedrun stuff done in Ultrakill, watch the videos on the history of speedrunning 2-4 and P-1 and check out the channel Herbmessiah.
You can actually see the 5th and 6th gun on the edge of the screen when you have more dual wield pickups. Not sure if increased FOV would affect it even more.
Perhaps deadcoining could be turned into an intended mechanic, where it could have interactions with other weapons (maybe increase the explosion on red railcannon, or give more bounces to red pistol). Or just give it a damage cap lmao
21:15 oh my god, I've been doing this all the the time without realising how it works lol. Turns out there are benefits to playing Ultrakill as a PowerPoint
I don’t personally speed run ultra kill, but I have a round 200 hours in the game and I don’t think changing when the speed run timer starts on levels will make any difference because if you change it people will just reset whenever they mess up the opening slam storage because it is only a few seconds into the run
@@Raitro_ I consider the intended play area whatever the player can reach without using exploits or glitches. Unintended mechanics or interactions reaching parts of a level that were probably meant for decoration.
The one thing that's stopping me getting into speed running ultrakill is dead coins so if there is ever a category where you can't use them I am 100% checking it out.
Most IL's don't use dead coins, and a good number of more niche full game runs done include them, weaponless, nomo, nomo weaponless, are all full game categories without any deadcoins in the route.
almost every level and category doesn’t use deadcoins or has routes with no deadcoining either, though deadcoining is probably one of the easier tech to actually apply in speedruns
i really love P(enis) ranking it just adds some funnies to the game and wanting to bash your skull into a brick wall when your at the end of a level and you are 1 second off
I wonder if the tech at 5:46 can be supplemented for the alt shotgun (jackhammer). It would allow for a decent boost and save you your railcannon shot. I know its not as good for speed but it looks like the distance is practically the same
Tbh almost all of the fps related things are bugs bc unity sucks and also some of the code in the game is spaghetti. Devs are more concerned about helping main levels btw; for example in 7-2, the tram speed was tied to fps and this was patched. Bugs in secret levels typically aren’t patched unless it’s very major. Also long chain deadcoins only exist in P-1, P-2, and 6-2, and they remove the rng that would occur in the kill otherwise. A lot of other boss kills are rng to get fast, or to even hit (take 4-4 and 5-4 instas for example) or getting style is inconsistent too (0-5, 2-4, 3-2, 5-4) And also, optimally, speedruns should never rely on reaction times since that’s timeloss. Speedrunners will always try to find the optimal way to clear a level, and this’ll just be replaced, maybe by something worse (take 4-4 insta for example, which is quite rng, regardless of your skill level, making it frustrating to run) Oh and one last thing: the devs do listen to the speedrunners, the most recent patch this Saturday for example mentions some FUP nerfs which us runners discussed since they were growing too dominant (almost every non-boss level includes it, and it made so much other tech obsolete)
Although i think hakita shouldnt remove dead coins i do think they should only be allowd to use in any% runs seen as those are pure speedruns and not p rank runs.
Okay so I’ve mentioned this in some replies, but I want to put my thoughts here for more to see. I am not an ULTRAKILL speedrunner, but I am part of that community, so take this with a grain of salt. Your race analogy is kinda flawed, as it portrays speedruns as simply getting from A to B as fast as possible, which you yourself don’t think is the case. I think a far more accurate model in this case is a hurdle run, where you have challenging obstacles between A and B and you still need to be skilled and quick-thinking to overcome them at high speed. In this case, it doesn’t really matter if you let runners get up to speed before the starting line, since the speed is not going to help you surmount these hurdles, and can even make it harder, forcing you to perform them more precisely and even more quickly. Take the god boost in 1-4, where instead of a simple slam storage, you can memorize and execute a precise lineup to gain massive speed, which is helpful, but the inputs that follow are more difficult for it. Getting to the first hurdle slightly faster than another strategy isn’t going to help you get over the next hurdle you face, optimal room entrance strats to demand skill to reap their benefits. They’re not just a headstart Also, counting entrance room times would, in IL runs, not be like starting a race from the gun shot, but starting timing when the runners touch the track. Runners then eschew the starting blocks and the proper positioning, which doesn’t make for better skill expression, just a clunkier start that neglects fast strategies and optimal setups to start in favor of just trying to reach record times from a standstill. In full-game runs, though, RTA would be like if in relay races, the time it took each runner to get up to speed before the baton is passed to them gets added onto the final time of the race. Relay races aren’t so much a sum of their parts but an exhibition of cutting out the repetitive starting strategy to display the possibilities of sustained peak performance. Anyway, this is all to show that comparing speedruns to a 100m dash is reductive at best and misrepresentative at worst, and you definitely should have consulted more speedrunners from the community who are more than happy to share their thoughts on a subject such as this. I liked the gameplay analysis, and your run is impressive, but when you are not an expert on a subject, at least do more consultation with the people who ARE first. Your replies aren’t convincing me that you’re engaging with the responses from the community in good-faith, and just seem like you expressed an opinion on a subject you didn’t know enough about, received criticism from those who know a lot more about it, and dug your feet in. This is a good community, and the UKSD is incredibly inviting and cordial, and none of the responses from runners have been anything but constructive feedback. If you can take feedback about having been wrong on basic coin mechanics and ULTRAKILL not having a boss with a highly skillful instakill with no setup, you should definitely make a concerted effort to understand the feedback from experts on your other points about ULTRAKILL speedrunning, especially when you’re receiving such universal pushback. Your opinions are intuitive, they make sense at a glance, but you need to ask and value the opinions of those who know more than you before you start proposing changes to the way a game - to which you are not intimately familiar with - operates.
Also none of us are saying the game is flawless, just that some of these issues you have with it aren’t actually issues, but widely benefit the speedrunning community. Almost every speedrunner in the replies has expressed that the timer needs tweaks and fixes, but not the overhaul you’re asking for
Alright, I typically ignore comments like these. But i'm not gonna lie, there is a case of brainrot going on with some of these points. I want to touch on a few things 100m Dash analogy: That was used to demonstrate how we value "building up speed" in a race environment. In how we value building speed that in one case, and how it isn't valued in Ultrakill's case. That's it. Any analysis beyond that is just your headcannon, and not applicable because you're applying a different point to the same analogy. That doesn't mean you cant use a variation of that analogy to make a different point (which you do here), but that doesn't mean my analogy is flawed. Last paragraph: I'm gonna be real, there is nothing of substance here. I did consult a top runner on my script. I do engage on good faith. (Why else would I admit fault in some areas of the video?) I did learn as much about the subject as possible before expressing my opinion in the form of this video. I've talked to multiple people on my stream and in discord who had my opposing view. I've been intimately involved with speedrunning this game for over 3 months trying to learn all I can about it I took other runners points in, and just disagreed. For reasons I get into in their responses. And the fact that you just assert the opposite of me without knowing my process... Well, that's some bad faith behavior. And the rest of that paragraph is just an appeal to authority fallacy. Just cause a runner is good, doesn't mean they're correct in their UK opinions. It's their reasoning that makes their point correct, not their status. And I haven't found sufficient reasoning to take their stance over mine. Because I value fairness above all the other factors people bring in. And that's the fun part of the conversation: the reasoning. With how many fallacy's are in your comment, that adds a lot of irony to your statement: "Your opinions are intuitive, they make sense at a glance."
@@Raitro_ as for the 100m dash analogy, try running 1-4 with the slam storage and then try it with the god boost setup. You’ll see exactly what I’m talking about. Executing the god boost is just a texture lineup, sure, but it does take more skill to get the most out of it. As for the rest of it, it’s not appealing to authority to say that you should have just popped in to the UKSD and maybe lent a bit more credence to the reasoning of people who know much more about this subject than you. I’m not saying that I believe they’re right because they’re good speedrunners, I’m saying that their arguments have much more experience behind them. It doesn’t lend itself to objective rightness or wrongness, but it does lend more weight to them. It’s not an appeal to authority to value the argument of a doctor who has been practicing for years over a med student. Their authority is pertinent. You shouldn’t listen to them because they’re good, you should put more value on their thoughts because they have relevant expertise and experience, that’s not a fallacy.
The reason the game thinks you fell from so high after a slam storage is because the game measures fall distance from how long it takes from the start of slam to end and slam storage makes you fall slower than a normal slam causing the game to think you were falling from much higher.
Yo peeps.
Some stuff was factually inaccurate in this video. Despite having someone fact check my script, and me redrafting constantly, we just miss some things sometimes.
*Only way to get back health is close-range damage and megahealth pickups*
Also Parrying restores HP and Stamina. I just missed this because parrying was not too relevant to this level in particular.
*Splicoins**
Can happen with any base-pistol. Not specifically only the green base pistol
*Power Slams deal damage*
Not more than a regular slam. Nor is there an increased area.
This was actually added because my fact checker mentioned it. So I believed them without much testing it myself.
**Three coins actually results in 4 enemies hit, not 6**
Actually, it is variable depending on how many pistol bullets hit coins. 4 if one. 5 if two. 6 if three.
All those previous examples don't really influence the effect on the 4-2 route so I didn't rigorously look over those points meticulously. I apologize for that.
One more thing
**CLICKBAIT?!?!?!?**
Not really, I advertised a breakdown of 100% 4-2 run, and I delivered on that. There... is just also a 14 minute DLC just added onto the end lmao. Can get if you don't wanna stick around for that section and it's fine if you aren't entranced with the premise.
Thats just a section i really wanted to talk about because I'm passionate about, wanted some attention drawn to it, and they are issues I want addressed by 1.0. Nothing more to it really.
i have lots of complaints about this video but the line "framerate is only a factor in the secret levels" is actually pathetic, 2-3 3-1 3-2 4-2 5-1 7-1 7-2 7-3 7-4 are majorly affected by fps.
also if deadcoins get banned the setup will just differ and we will find another instakill that often are more boring and rng banning deadcoins would only hurt categories like full game
Fact check 11:57 I count 6 guns on screen
Really good video btw
Whenever people ask me about Ultrakill, I tell that it's Doom Eternal with a style meter and unmedicated ADHD.
This is slightly too accurate
ADHD THE GAME
"unmedicated adhd"
I have been suspecting that I might havw adhd for quite a while now AND YOU'RE NOT HELPING
Doom eternal with crack and no doom eternal
"If doom and devil may cry had"
Hakita actually did change the game for speedrunners, because the doors would open to slow on 1-4 stoping speedruners moving at high speeds and hakita made an update to make them open faster
And the most recent update (patch post arsenal update) did the same thing on 6-1!
Nice
@@thatcyanthingviolence patch 14b did it too because the doors opened agonisingly slow
7:07 _Ackchyually,_ parrying an attack also fully heals you.
... fuck 🤣
Why do I have people fact check me when we all miss simple stuff like this 😭
@@Raitro_ lmaooooo
@@Raitro_ because... it's basic Information?
*basic information that trained speedrunners glance over when proofreading a script
Yeah, human brain just misses things sometimes
To be fair, the tutorial also says that blood is the only way to heal.
The sheer number of colors, shapes, and movement going on on my screen has completely overwhelmed my tiny ape brain.
The first video to require an Adderall prescription
booo!! look at him he didn't p rank P2 on Brutal!!
Just wait 'til you play the game. You are on the verge of a heart attack and have to mash every button at least 6 times per second. Drugless crack
"at least one Titan that sits above the rest" - *bryonato on screen* HMMMMM
Ah, now they speedrun COD4.
It's nice to see how a Titan falls, too
Nah but fr, most of this was edited with your COD4 runs in the background. 🤣
@@Raitro_ Haha, Titanfall, movement shooters. Haha.
Slamfall
Honestly the Boomer Shooter genre is soooo good right now. We got games like Dusk, Ultrakill, Cultic, Prodeus, Turbo Overkill and many many more. The overall quality of these games is just insane
I have some thoughts about the stuff in this video.
First off, your point about the entrance room, if two runners do not have the same skill with regards to gaining speed, they will not have the same time even if it means there is more leniency in the start room.
It also takes away from potential strategies with regards to switching weapon variations, as any time gained from doing the more optimal strategies would be offset by the time loss from switching weapons.
Overall it would reduce the options in the speedrun. Sure, other games do it differently, but this way works for ultrakill, and adding the time spent in the entrance room would make the game a lot more frustrating to run, along with not really making the game any better to watch or for casual players.
Your point on FPS stuff, yeah, that needs to be changes. Check jumps are a Pandora's box that hasn't been opened because running the game at 30fps and below sucks, so top runners just don't.
Now as for deadcoining, I kind of agree, except for your point about unintended mechanics. It frankly, does not matter whether or not it is intended. Half the speedrun is unintended, from ultraboosts to slam storage, the difference between these unintended mechanics and stuff like zoomies is that, zoomies was patched, the rest weren't.
If you want to ban something, there should be an actual reason other than "dev didn't intend it". Your points about it not being fun or interesting, that's more than enough.
Like come on, you can't contrast the unintendedness of deadcoining with the v2 kill, a kill that abuses the fact that V2 is vulnerable specifically only to coin punches and ricoches during the cutscene, something that was very obviously intended.
Deadcoining has received changes, specifically changes with regards to nerfing the absurd style of you could at one point get through deadcoining. Yet, the actual mechanic remains. That points towards the devs not wanting it gone, just like they did with slam storage, the V2 coin stuff, and every other unintended thing the devs have just kinda left in the game.
And frankly, if you are going to complain about people abusing unintended mechanics for speedruns, there are so, so, so many other options to pick from, things that have been patched out.
Zoomies dominate the any% IL leader boards, 2-4 runs use the OP red revolver patch, 7-4 uses the patched lobotomy kill. These are all things you could make the case for abusing unintended things for speedruns, because they were removed, but not only has deadcoining been left alone for years now, it has received changes to fix the more broken aspects of it with regards to style. If it the devs didn't want it in, they would have removed the mechanic then.
Jambott spitting fr fr
Jamm you are a king
spit your truth king
so true jamgoat
Tell em boss
Was enjoying a video and then BOOM very niche change that can be avoided by running your own category request before the game is even complete for the average player jumpscare
You can one shot sisyphean insurrectionist by dropping him into an infinite VOID OF DEATH in a red skull area
Yes but it's way longer than the setup used in the video
"NOOOO YOU CAN'T SPEEDRUN THIS WAY! YOU HAVE TO DO IT THE CORRECT WAY!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!111"
People like Raitro are why we get new speedrunning categories lmao, he never said that there was a correct way, just that deadcoin setups are lame as hell.
And I agree.
hey! i wanted to address some of the concerns you had about this games speedruns, and hopefully give you some insight onto why things are the way they are
as for the starting room, i honestly don't think having the timer start immediately adds much, if any depth to the run at all? there aren't really any solid options for immediate bursts of speed, and overall limits your options for entrances. In return, fixing this issue with an autosplitter would cause a ton of problems, no matter which of two options you go with
in current IGT, the timer does a lot of very weird things. clearing certain arenas slows the timer down, certain cutscenes slow the timer down, certain cutscenes can be skipped to jump the timer forward, weapon wheel does a ton of fucked shit that im honestly not even 100% sure the specifics of anymore, and it depends on patch too. trying to implement all of this into an autosplitter would be insanely difficult, if not impossible. the problem is that the actual impossible thing to implement would be hitstop.
hitstop does a lot of really fucked up shit to the games timer, and it depends on what you hit the enemy with in the first place. all of this would be completely impossible to properly add to an igt autosplitter, since if you're adding the red room time, you wouldn't be able to just steal the in game timers time, which is what our autosplitter currently does as far as im aware.
so your two options are either go on the insane endeavor of adding all of that to an autosplitter, or ignoring all of it instead, which has completely massive routing ramifications, as any big forms of hitstop just get completely gutted. it would require rerouting of literally every level in the game, as now formerly slower strats will become faster because of hitstop now being timeloss. This is way too big of an ask for something that is debatably even a good change to the game, and that's ignoring potential problems im not as familiar with, like the potential inaccuracy of livesplit compared to the in game timer, and the potential extra barrier to entry (albeit minimal), it would add.
as for fps issues, there's unfortunately a LOT of fps dependent stuff due to unity just being kinda bleh, and i agree with you on the fact that its not a good thing, i just think that actually fixing the problem is a lot more complicated than just making everyone play on one framerate. its very possible im completely incorrect on this, however its not something i really feel qualified to talk about in detail.
as for deadcoining, there's a lot of layers to this, so bear with me. i would like to preface this with the fact that the types of deadcoin setups you refer to here, i do not particularly enjoy doing. i find them relatively boring, which is why i don't commonly run the levels they're featured in. however, i also understand that a majority of these, if not all of these, are kind of a necessary evil, simply due to the way enemy ai works in this game.
enemies, with some mild exceptions, are extremely random in this game, bosses included. because of this, a lot of strats are intentionally routed to try and improve consistency, along with generally being fast. there are some strats, some arenas, some things that are unfortunately still rng, but we normally try and minimize it as much as possible, because nobody really likes doing everything right and then losing the run because the game decided to spit out a 1 instead of a 2 so the strat you had just doesn't work anymore.
the reason i bring this up is because for a majority, if not all, of the fights that currently use deadcoining in the way you described, would be absolutely plagued with rng if not for deadcoining, and the biggest factor to this is the fact that the extremely high damage combos you might see used in 0-3, or just scattered around sandbox on cerbs, get completely fucked over by a moving target, making them near impossible to perform, and if possible, extremely rng heavy. nobody wants that, including me. as much as i don't personally enjoy doing it, i will always rather deadcoin over slamming my head against a wall waiting for good rng, which is the only other option you have if you want top times.
now the reason i've been very specific about the type of deadcoining im talking about, is because deadcoining has a lot more uses than just in boss setups like that, and a majority of them, if not all of them, are awesome to watch, and if they got completely removed from the game, would be a massive shame, both for spectators, and for players. if you wanted to make an arbitrary rule for it, it would have to be unnecessarily complex to not have either loopholes or make sense, and really just isn't worth the effort of doing so, as it would just end up making runs worse.
this game's speedruns do have a lot of issues, i'd be the first one to tell you that, but i don't think these are whats truly wrong with the game at the moment, and i think what is is either unfixable, deeply rooted, or very complicated to fix, especially at this point in time. i just hope that by 1.0, this game is the best it can possibly be, and i hope you feel the same.
i second this, and i fully agree with the stance that although there are definitely problems with the current state of the game for speedrunning, i almost all of the points brought up in this video are just not currently issues that exist with the game. i think this video honestly does WAY more harm that it does good for the community as it just spreads misinformation about both the game's mechanics and what's healthy for the scene and gives both speedrunning the game as well as the game in general a bad look.
@@wormsley I second this. Really dont like the amount of misinfo with the video.
the funny thing is, is that the game doesnt even track igt in the red room, and combining RTA and IGT for an autosplitter would be awful to implement (livesplit has inaccuracies sometimes mostly bc it updates the time last, and itd also suck to code). i could make one to demonstrate how bad itd be, and also it would make resetting the level inconsistent asf and make it a hell to code while keeping it accurate
Hey Miona. Thanks for watching, I'll respond to a few of your points below:
**Timer would be a pain to implement**
Ehhhh that depends on how you do it. You could just time RTA and start/stop the timer at loading screens. And that would be the simplest.
Also, I hate the argument of livesplit can be innacurate. Because the IGT timer can be inaccurate too! In fact, you describe the ways in which it is in this post. So that will be a factor of every timing method so it can't really be used against my preferred timing method.
Doing an Livesplit timer still makes it the most fair by design.
**Timestop**
I actually had a section adressing timestop in one of my initial redrafts. I think I ended up tossing it out, because I would be fine with a timer that counts hitstops or doesn't. If it does, well that means we can keep doing all our "hotgirl shit" with no time penalty. But having it count would incentivize not going for hitstop actions which adds alot of depth to the routing and the gameplay decisions. Since I was fine with both scenarios, I ended up just not even mentioning it.
Also, just cause it would change routes isn't really a factor I take much stake in. Cause that ignores that rerouting, is actually quite fun! So I wouldn't mind it.
**FPS Issues**
I'm glad everyone seems to agree on the general thing of FPS cap should be enforced. I think it's just a matter of debate which is a good stopping point. I would prefer any cap really. As long as it's not an unreasonable one like 1000 fps or something like that
**Deadcoins, pt 3, the revengence with a reckoning**
Yeah, I know deadcoins remove RNG. However dealing with RNG is a very good skill to have in a run. Sure this means it isn't consistent. Like I said in another comment, i'm fine with deadcoins outside of these quick-boss kills. It's just that deadcoining enables these quick boss kills to be a thing. So the more fundamental issue is that there is instakills in every category. Which I get into in my "no boss introduction" part of the video.
**Nobody wants to deal with RNG**
Hi. I'm nobody. I like dealing with the RNG patterns. I think that's a good skill to have. I think it's fun even. Of course it depends on the type of RNG, of which, I think Ultrakill boss-fight patterns are the good kind. I even say explicitly that it's matter of preference if you like long setups or the depth of the fight. Like I get that some people might like majority opinion and what most runners think. But you can't just appeal to "lmao, nobody thinks that way" as a point, because it isn't. That's an Appeal to Majority fallacy. Point is, is that this is a preference. You kinda just assert your preference as fact and that everyone thinks the same. My thing is.. why not both? Why not have a "Deadcoinless" category and an filthy RNG no-deadcoin run? We can have our cake and eat it too in this scenario!
**Mistakes in video**
More in really directed to the comments in this post, not really the post itself.
Yeah, I got a few things wrong, but nothing that was too detrimental to the point of the video. I pride myself on honesty which is why all my factual errors are in a pinned comment.
I get being upset with things being wrong, however keep in mind i'm human and will just miss things. It's not of mal-intent. And hell, I try to prevent it with multiple redrafts and getting someone to proofread my scripts. Somethings just slip through the cracks.
I get that noone wants mistakes, however I did act out of love of the game to make this breakdown, and lot of my explanations are very understandable. I think the breakdown sections of this video do wayyy more good than those small mistakes. Cause you have to consider the net influence on something, not just the detriments of the thing, right? At least when considering if it's good as a whole.
Also, just gonna say this, some of this video paints Ultrakill speedrunning in a bad light by design. It does that by intention because the timer stuff in the 2nd part of the video is genuinely stupid in the context of full-game speedruns. Not necessarily a fault of the community for initially relying on it, but it will be our fault if we continue to use it. Healthy competition thrives on fairness. So me seeing something unfair will understandably get me riled.
@Raitro_ One fairly major issue with rta would be hardware locking
Some things in the game cause major lag on lower end PCs
For example nailsbombs
In 6 2 for example a nailbomb set up is used and on my pc my screen freezes for like 0.1~ seconds while on some others pcs it freezes for 0.5~ (for a boss level a gap that big is huge)
With igt this is a non issue since the timer isn't running while the game is frozen but with rta it wouldnt be.
Hello! I noticed a few key things that aren't actually true in this video and misrepresents ULTRAKILL speedruns:
For ng100, you do NOT need to play on brutal, in fact you are allowed (for now) to run at any difficulty you want. However, VIOLENT tends to be the preferred difficulty, since it is objectively optimal compared to other difficulties due to the way enemies behave and bosses not having the additional 33% hp increase brutal provides. You mention that "slide hops" only increase you in speed when you are beneath a "speed cap", this isnt really correct. Sliding itself has a maximum speed, so SLIDE jumping will cap you at this speed, but this does not mean the game itself has a speed cap, there are ways around the maximum slide speed and I feel like this should have been talked about.
Second, you mention that coins can only be split via the green revolver, but this isnt actually true! You can split coins via any default revolver type. Also, its not like the split state is useless if shot with a slab variation, the interaction is simply changed to increase the amount hits that come from the shot (this is a very simplified explanation of how slab splitshots work but you get the idea)
You mention that killing enemies at point blank is the only way to get health back on top of mega health pickups, but this isnt true, as the game heavily focuses on you parrying enemies to refill both your health bar and stamina. You missed a VERY important part of the run, at 8:45 you mention that 3 coins in split state kill 6 enemies, but this is, again, factually wrong, as when you shoot one of the three coins, it splits and hits the other two coins, causing only 4 splits.
When you talk about the green shotgun you mention its overpump state to be a punished. This really shows a clear lack of engagement with the game, as the overpump is widely known as one of the best weapons in the entire game. This isnt a "punishment" as the devs clearly incentive you to use the explosion to your own benefit. Anything in this game that is player made is not a punishment, but rather, an extra option for both runners and casual players.
You also mention that the shockwave generated with powerslams deal damage around the landing spot. This is just incorrect, in order for a slam to do any sort of damage, you need to land on TOP of an enemy, otherwise the generated shockwave will simply launch them up if possible.
At 23:20 you say / show that deadcoins add +2 power to the chain each time, this is incorrect, as only the power from the hitscan (in this case the revolver) is added, so in reality it is only a +1 damage increase. Following the deadcoin topic, you mention for sisyphus that "the max damage you can do is set up sawblades near him while he's monologuing, throw coins in the air right as he spawns, and then hit that with a blue piercer pistol shot" This is VERY incorrect, i understand that maybe you were just trying to show an "easy" deadcoinless kill, but the way this was worded implies that there arent other faster, more complex and WAY harder kills that also demolish this boss' entire hp. Also following this topic, you mention that the v2 instakill follows an "intended mechanic" which is, again, plain wrong. First of all, the optimal kill for v2 in 1-4 DOES involve deadcoins (lots of them!), second, v2 taking damage from coins during it's cutscene was never an intended mechanic, it was kept in the game because people liked it. Deadcoins are an intended mechanic, as hakita knows about them and has made changes to the tech itself in the past, so the entire section is just wrong as hakita has both acknowledged and balanced deadcoining and coin power while intentionally keeping it in the game (with speedrunners in consideration!)
In 24:06 you state that "there is no depth to the mechanic" in regards to deadcoinning. This statement i feel is very problematic, as it's cherrypicking the few scenarios in which you perform the long "boring" deadcoin chain, and purposefully leaves out the (not niche) scenarios in which you deadcoin mid arena to clear an arena of enemies. The best example I can give of this is the recent 5-1 any% record (done by @GothMiona), which managed to beat a previously patchlocked world record that used a rocket clip with the use of insane mechanical execution.
Everything I have pointed out so far has been objective wrong stuff, but there are multiple other personal things that I could comment on that I believe are incorrect, but since those fall more on the subjective side than factually wrong, I will be leaving them out from this comment. Wishing for you to get the extra curiosity to dig a little bit deeper and learn the true depth of the mechanics of this game, happy running and good luck with your future videos!
yea Naomi's 5-1 any% record is absolutely insane, more ppl should watch it
Hey Asunder! Thanks for watching! I'm gonna respond to a few of your points below.
*For ng100 you don't need to play on brutal**
This is true. It's not what I'm talking about. This video showcases 100% NG Brutal IL for the a breakdown of game mechanics. Not general 100% NG. I never once implied it. So I don't know where you got that Brutal was a requirement for that run as a whole. It was a requirement for the sake of the video, because it's the core premise!
**Speedcap**
I feel like this is just a technicallity? From that section I thought it was clear that the speed increase was in reference to slide hopping, not at all a reference speed cap. There is a speed cap for slide hopping, because sliding has a cap speed. This may just be a fault of me having some clunky wording that's causing this confusion, but I don't think what I said was wrong.
**V2 Example**
Discussed this in Jambott's comment. But yeah, I think due to just how simple it is to "punch a coin lmao" that the V2 case is more intricate than I let on in this video.
**Can split with default pistol, not just sharp shooter**
Actually didn't know this whatsover. Thanks for the correction! I'll add it to my pinned comment
**Parrying/Coinsplit/powerslams**
Yeah, just stuff I got wrong. Luckily these specifics don't really matter for the case of it really doesn't change my analysis of the level / the opinion peace, it's really just more embarassing more than anything else, but I don't think these flaws get in the way of my conclusions so I'm fine with having them exist in the video.
**Overpump**
I definitely agree that in high level play the overpump explosion is a tool to be used! From a casual perspective, it seems very punishing for no reason tho, hence the line. I would have touched on how Speedrunners abused Overpump-I-Frames if it was really used more than once in this level particularly as it is very cool.
**Deadcoin damage specifics**
Yeah, I was unable to find the exact damage numbers for this section, so I just used "+ number" here to demonstrate the number of damage increase sources. Not necessarily meant to be accurate from a numbers code. Just enough to demonstrate what the concept is.
As for it being known by Hakita, I wasn't able to find one acknowledgment of it when I did some digging. But wasn't really convinced by any of what I saw. Also it's hard to search for, so I might missed some discord log or something. All my points do still stand about depth.
**No depth**
I think in the context of my examples this work. If I brought up deadcoining in use of non-boss levels, I would have probably clarified. But yeah, I think I agree with you outside of boss fights. I just only touch that segment because I actually didn't know about it being used in general combat and neither did my fact checker. Depth, of course being the definition of skill expession, and having an instantskill setup does cap skill expression.
Unironically, I appreciate the "um ackchually" of this comment alot. Thanks for fact checking me! Thanks for watching and good luck with your runs!
@@Raitro_ for it being known by hakita, he nerfed coin punch setups by making it have a cap, while keeping deadcoining the same
He also said this relating to it: “nah the coin juggling thing was too easy, deadcoining is weird and hard so that's probably fine”
And skill expression for deadcoin kills is based off of how fast you can do them, for p-1, the theoretical minimum is a 0.2s kill, while the best we’ve had by a human is 0.4, so we still have to reach the skill ceiling before that becomes a valid point
asunder gameplay
@@xProward Thank you aka shiya you are my goat
Man, every high level player seems to be using Enemy Outlines, maybe I should consider them too
It really adds to visibility. Especially in the bright-ass levels like Layer 4 and 7
@@Raitro_it can also help with telling when certain enemies spawn (cerbs for example), and letting you see through stuff like explosions
@@Raitro_ however, if your computer isn't as good as others, your performance takes at least a 25% cut like the corners cut in most modern day movies
Runners here have also brought up how hitstops are accounted for by the timer and that this is a benefit to the community, and I wanted to give an example of how. See, there is a theoretical instakill for the swords machine in 0-3 using the slarp, that might be faster than current strats, but in real time, it might end up being slower due to the amount of hitstops the slarp produces. This is also the case with kills in 7-4 and P-1 that use the slarp. as such, in this case and with other bosses, the slarp would be avoided like the plague, since its hitstops would constantly produce time loss, which would limit the creativity of runners and hurt the skill-expressiveness you’d like to see more of in boss fights.
IL’s would move from optimizing high-dps combos and exploiting V1’s arsenal to the fullest in favor of minimizing hitstops, which just isn’t a fun way to play the game. Imagine top-level players losing a WR-paced run to accidentally getting too many hitstops from +INTERRUPTIONs on fodder, how much fun would that be???
Wouldn't be the first time a mechanic was removed, remember when you could Whiplash a Core Eject? And then it was removed, granted I don't know why it was removed, was it too powerful or something else, but still
It was removed bc it’s useless and was annoying af, however rocket whipping (aka FUPs) is kept bc you can double your damage and do one of the biggest explosions in the game too
0:34 i have never heard someone pronounce v1 that badly😭😭🙏🙏
any game developper : oh you found a glitch? wait let me fix that
hakita : oh you find a glitch? feature it is
15:00 outerwilds music, two of the best indie games combined
i know some other runners have made good points already but, some main (easy) ones i want to say are
with timing being added to start rooms, a good example is a custom level that had this on accident - it completely removed any variety from entering a level as it would just be optimal to dashjump as soon as you touched the ground.
26:42 same with deadcoining
I dont see the point in suggesting removing something that you personally dont find fun/intersting, when a large majority of runners prefer it and find it a healthy part of the game
29:05 us runners actually have a lot of close contact with the development of the game and a lot of feedback is shared
I talked about all of this in other comments except for these couple
**Completely remove variety*
Yes. It would. But it increases fairness. I'm not one who values variety at the cost of fairness.
** Us runners actually have a lot of close contact with the development of the game and a lot of feedback is shared**
This isn't really a factor. I more touched on the point that in general speedrunners shouldn't expect the developer to change something that only affects them: < 1% of the audience. Not if that was actually the case. I do know there are a few speedrunners who gain access to betas for testing purposes. But getting advice and feedback for speedrunners, and implementing gameplay changes specifically for them are two different points really.
Should developers implement speedrun specific changes? This is a whole can of worms that my video was talking about. And I settle around the camp of "Can't really expect it to happen." If it does happen, good. I like that. But it's beside the point of that sentence
Thanks for watching tho! Hope ya enjoyed
@@Raitro_ what i was trying to get at with the entrance thing is that the point you made (iirc) was that anyone could do the same thing and get the same result.
Its the exact same if you started the timer; people would immediately just dashjump as soon as they landed.
all it would do is make the game more boring and give us free timeloss
with the contact with deva thing, i was just pointing out that we do have the ability for thing (usually very obscure) to get fixed/nerfed in our favour
@@Raitro_ It has nothing to do with fairness. At all. A strategy being unfair means something that is not accessible to everyone, and the grace period in the entrance room is, by definition, accessible to everyone. Therefore it is fair. Your point here is entirely moot.
i totally agree about the whole timer issue you have. i think the best way to sort it out would be to have different settings for the timer, similar to how dead cells does it. a "speedrun timer" setting where its always going, that way it just adds up all the times on each level and thats your final time, but it only activates when you gain control of v1, along with the default setting of how it is now.
The 100% speedrun of this whole game is a genuine wonder to watch
I love how this video is perfectly plausible for people who've never played the game yet still remains professional enough for experienced players, great video 👍
honestly I think that the problem with deadcoining would be entirely fixed by just the ingame timer being changed to not increase when skipping a boss intro. That way actual dps would be encouraged, and also give a place for all those ludicrously high damage railcoin punch setups
honestly, i think with deadcoins, maybe it should be limited to like 5 at which point the coin disappears, but when it does it should do a sizeable chunk of damage, make a specific satisfying crunchy noise and have a style bonus so it becomes an intentional and balanced mechanic, cause i think the idea of it is pretty cool, it just has a kinda boring implementation
Longer deadcoin chains are literally only used in 3 levels (P-1, P-2, 6-2)
I HECKIN LOVE 6 2@@10_days_till_xmas
@@10_days_till_xmas The P boss are too cool, I wanna see the speedrunners actually fight them.
Just create another category, no need to change game mechanics that have been around for a long time and don't do anything wrong just to make speedruns "more interesting" to watch
@@Doobydoe you’d be surprised by how hard it actually is to make another category src is actually so bad that even tho we need some we dont get them
The thing about deadcoins is that it wouldn't be problem if at least the following things apply:
1. The dialogue time would apply so skipping the intro would save time.
2. You could skip the dialogue in the NG category
3. There's a speedrun mode which would do the following: Skips any boss intros and other stuff, and makes time start the moment you land after falling down the shaft.
4. Deadcoin, if not removed, would have its own cap
You know, I wish the game had P+ rank or something that would be obtained if you kill every enemy (even secret encounters), and collect all secret orbs in one run. Perhaps a new style bonus threshold as well. That would be fun to watch and execute.
1a) RTA is not used for NG100% to account from time in the entrance: its because on a brand new save file you cannot have the tab menu up to show the timer upon first playthrough of a level, and since certain strats require you to actually restart a level midway through (5-1 requires you to both grab orbs that are underwater, and complete the challenge of "not touching any water") there is no way to actually accurately determine the real time, so for that category in particular we opt for RTA. Your example is wrong here.
1b) Your analogy is not correct; it's as if you're in a race and everybody you are racing against can start at any point behind the starting line, just like you.
2) LiveSplit is not a good tool to use for the end-all be-all of timing in ULTRAKILL. Even for multilevel runs, you still have to add up the time manually regardless of if you have LiveSplit or not, because LiveSplit only goes to the hundredths of a decimal point, whereas the in game timer goes the thousandths place. Programming a timer which will innately be inaccurate just to include the starting room would only cause more problems than it solves, and the problem it's solving is genuinely one I have not seen another speedrunner have an issue with in my 1.5yrs of running this game. If anything, the one instance of a custom level where timer started before the door opened actually caused a few issues on its own, so trying so recreate it would be a pointless endavor. TL;DR exponentially effort for less accuracy to solve an issue that isnt even an issue and has actually caused issues in the past.
3a) Regarding manipulation of FPS to make it lower, I do believe it to be disingenuous to mention that strategies that occur by manipulating framerates to be low are already banned under the rules.
3b) While I agree with your position that an FPS cap should be placed on 2-S specifically, it should be worth mentioning that 2-S as an individual level category pretty much exists as a meme category that nobody really takes seriously. In NG100% runs, the time loss between the a capped and uncapped FPS run is so negligible that in the grand scheme of things no NG100% runner really cared enough to worry about it (worst case scenario, its 10s in a near 2 hour run). Though it is worth mentioning that it is something we are considering for full game release when all the current boards are wiped and archived.
4a) Your own examples regarding "kills using intended mechanics pushed to extremes" are literally wrong. Firstly, by your own admission, your 4-2 Insurrectionist kill uses the unintended slam store mechanic (which is especially ironic since the optimal kill does use entirely intended mechanics). Secondly, the ability to damage V2 with coin punches and ricoshots before its healthbar appears is also an unintended mechanic. In regards to deadcoins, to quote your defense of slam storage use: It is known by Hakita [and all members of the dev team] and was purposefully still left in.
4b) There are non-deadcoin Sisyphus kills I have used that can instantly get him to 25% (3 oversaw 30 blue saw trap + quad coin slab piercer shot + screwdriver punch) which can then immediately be finished off with a cannonboost and red gauge jackhammer shot. You fail to realize that a quick insta kill is NOT the only use of deadcoining in P-2; deadcoining at the split window actually increases style along with it. This is important because, if you do all the other encounters of the level optimally, you have a high risk of NOT beating the level with the proper style requirements. This technique removes a massively annoying RNG factor of a level, which is why many runners prefer it.
4c) It should be worth mentioning that deadcoining as a strategy only really affects three levels: P-1, P-2, and 6-2. The few other levels that utilize it do so at a very little time save anyways. Even in the few levels that do heavily utilize it, it does not save as much time as you believe it does
4d) The "no technical depth" argument regarding P-2's deadcoin is just outright wrong as properly maintaining a split deadcoin chain while also maintaining magnets for 30 blue and 3 overheat saws are still extremely precise and require a level of knowledge and skill in order to pull off.
Question is: Since the levels are time-based leaderboards, why is there RNG in the first place?
I genuinely have no clue what you mean by that question, what RNG are you talking about?
@@xProward The one you mentioned in your point 4b.
The start of this video explains how for P ranks, time, style, and kill requirements need to be met. The deadcoin only exists for P rank speedruns.
okay sheldon cooper
new ULTRAKLL-MUST-DIE feature you will be locked on a cinematic cut-scene in bosses
18:53 i think i saw that phrase before…
(minos reference 😃)
1:25 - "Urine trouble?" damn, the video goes hard
gotta love how i've spotted just a few max0r references and im 8 minutes in
22:44 there actually is a cap and I think it’s like 5 dmg or smthn
(I love this video also I feel like not enough people make ultrakill speedrun breakdown videos)
That's just wrong bud. What you're thinking of is if it *doesnt* hit an enemy
But thanks for watching!
I learn new tech every time I watch an ultrakill video. It’s like “wait I can do that???”
13:18 "I just thought of a great idea-"
of your 3 concerns i can understand the first two, but your concern about the deadcoin is that the speedrun technique… is too fast? If you want to test combat skills in speedruns then yes they absolutely are, but for a lot of people it’s purely competitive.
but what do i know, my best 1-4 time is 17 seconds :P
11:56 I think i can see the tip of the 5th and 6th pistol. Amazing, V1 has so many arms in that tiny space.
clickbaited into a monologue about how a game is played "the right way"
I think deadcoining should simply just have a damage cap, higher than any other setup, as it's a harder skill, but lower than the FULL health of any boss.
At 11:57 you say you can only see 4 guns on screen, but while they’re firing the recoil lets you see at least 2 more. V1 simply attaches each arm horizontally. :)
I agree with your opinion on dead coining. I know that it’s a very difficult tec to pull off but thats just it: it’s tec. And honesty I don’t care if it takes longer to fight the boss normally i enjoy fighting the bosses in this game and skipping them feels cheap. And due to how difficult the tec can be to pull off it makes the runs very reset heavy right at the end. TLDR I dislike dead coining because I like the bosses
I saw your Doom god run video and loved it, but I forgot to subscribe so I didn’t see you for a while. I’m glad I found this video because I love Ultrakill and think more people should play it. I’m glad to have subscribed after seeing this video. Thank you!!!!!
In the most recent update you can do a level 2 alt shotgun hit and a melee, which kills maurice faster than the two normal shotgun shots and a melee
you can just do a whiplash cancel + any alt shotgun and itll kill the maurice
But then you have to wait the cooldown
@@ottofort but then you have to wait out the cooldown
@@terrensical not much of a problem if you use all 3 alt shotguns like a dummy (me)
@@ottofort I am also a dummy, shotgun supremacy
I LOVE THE PUNS THROUGHOUT THIS VIDEO SO MUCH
6:49 the game does not consider a corenuke to be one big explosion
there are two explosions, the one from the malicious railcannon and the one from the core (which becomes twice as large as the malcannon explosion)
11:18 the shockwave doesn't deal damage, only direct hits from the slam do
the shockwave just launches enemies upward
me when a boss shows up and having spare charge in my pocket
1:11 bro i got flashbanged so hard here
1:25
"it stands for perfect not piss. URIN trouble if you think that"
hehehe.
As far as no boss Introductions, maybe hakita could spin it off as the bosses being afraid of v1, or something like that
I grinded this for hours, only to keep dying to the freaking soulja boy room
I think I now understand why so many people can’t stop speedrunning ultrakill. It is THE first person movement shooter.
Also, can’t wait for the ghostrunner vid. I’m so excited that u run that game, it’s one of my favorite games I’ve ever run.
If you want to see more of the speedrun stuff done in Ultrakill, watch the videos on the history of speedrunning 2-4 and P-1 and check out the channel Herbmessiah.
You can actually see the 5th and 6th gun on the edge of the screen when you have more dual wield pickups. Not sure if increased FOV would affect it even more.
18:52 of courses you used the Minos Prime clip
i used to see the sharpshooter helicopter thing and i thought it was a joke.. until today
14:25 the run also uses the slab because slab shots hit one enemy multiple times instead of splitting
deadcoin✖
trowing asmuch coins to the air until the fight start✅
Under the Mayo could've used the style explanation in the intro here lol
Perhaps deadcoining could be turned into an intended mechanic, where it could have interactions with other weapons (maybe increase the explosion on red railcannon, or give more bounces to red pistol).
Or just give it a damage cap lmao
Aaaa reminder, parrying also heals you entirely, or upto the hard damage point
TIL, explosion reflect the projectile, thanks man
21:15 oh my god, I've been doing this all the the time without realising how it works lol. Turns out there are benefits to playing Ultrakill as a PowerPoint
cool video, unfortunatelly i disgree, EVERYONE should read the lore 👿
I don’t personally speed run ultra kill, but I have a round 200 hours in the game and I don’t think changing when the speed run timer starts on levels will make any difference because if you change it people will just reset whenever they mess up the opening slam storage because it is only a few seconds into the run
missed the section where I said "for fullgame runs" huh?
@@Raitro_ why so sassy ...
I came for this channel because you asked for my clip and I stayed for the glitches
My interpretation of out of bounds: You left the intended play area.
Well now what's the :intended play area?" That's subjective as heck unless the game clearly marks Collison
@@Raitro_ I consider the intended play area whatever the player can reach without using exploits or glitches. Unintended mechanics or interactions reaching parts of a level that were probably meant for decoration.
WHY IS YOUR BRIGHTNESS 100% BRO MY EYES HURT
petition to consider punchswapping as an intended mechanic pls
ULTRAKILL is 3 words I'm on drugs (in game not irl)
"ultrakill's best level" 7-3, 7-4, and 4-4:
it's 6-1 and P2 EVERYONE KNOWS THAT
@@chipstheii9264 theyre right behind em
The one thing that's stopping me getting into speed running ultrakill is dead coins so if there is ever a category where you can't use them I am 100% checking it out.
Most IL's don't use dead coins, and a good number of more niche full game runs done include them, weaponless, nomo, nomo weaponless, are all full game categories without any deadcoins in the route.
almost every level and category doesn’t use deadcoins or has routes with no deadcoining either, though deadcoining is probably one of the easier tech to actually apply in speedruns
As well, some P% kills in 0-5 don't use deadcoins, so you could run just prelude P%
Also deadcoining isn’t that hard, the timing really isn’t that bad, it just gets really bad when you have to juggle a deadcoin and a saw trap
Let me introduce you to level that aren't a boss level
i really love P(enis) ranking it just adds some funnies to the game and wanting to bash your skull into a brick wall when your at the end of a level and you are 1 second off
1:24 “ *URINE* trouble “
Me hearing about slide hopping in a game besides Tianfall2: YEEEEEEESSS!!!!
I wonder if the tech at 5:46 can be supplemented for the alt shotgun (jackhammer). It would allow for a decent boost and save you your railcannon shot. I know its not as good for speed but it looks like the distance is practically the same
Tbh almost all of the fps related things are bugs bc unity sucks and also some of the code in the game is spaghetti. Devs are more concerned about helping main levels btw; for example in 7-2, the tram speed was tied to fps and this was patched. Bugs in secret levels typically aren’t patched unless it’s very major.
Also long chain deadcoins only exist in P-1, P-2, and 6-2, and they remove the rng that would occur in the kill otherwise. A lot of other boss kills are rng to get fast, or to even hit (take 4-4 and 5-4 instas for example) or getting style is inconsistent too (0-5, 2-4, 3-2, 5-4)
And also, optimally, speedruns should never rely on reaction times since that’s timeloss. Speedrunners will always try to find the optimal way to clear a level, and this’ll just be replaced, maybe by something worse (take 4-4 insta for example, which is quite rng, regardless of your skill level, making it frustrating to run)
Oh and one last thing: the devs do listen to the speedrunners, the most recent patch this Saturday for example mentions some FUP nerfs which us runners discussed since they were growing too dominant (almost every non-boss level includes it, and it made so much other tech obsolete)
6-2 MENTION :3
EVERY MALFACE IS MAURICE AND YOU CANNOT TELL ME OTHERWISE
imo, i think level speedruns are best with timer starting with the door opening.
only 100% needs to time everything
1:25 "Urine Trouble"
Although i think hakita shouldnt remove dead coins i do think they should only be allowd to use in any% runs seen as those are pure speedruns and not p rank runs.
Okay so I’ve mentioned this in some replies, but I want to put my thoughts here for more to see. I am not an ULTRAKILL speedrunner, but I am part of that community, so take this with a grain of salt.
Your race analogy is kinda flawed, as it portrays speedruns as simply getting from A to B as fast as possible, which you yourself don’t think is the case. I think a far more accurate model in this case is a hurdle run, where you have challenging obstacles between A and B and you still need to be skilled and quick-thinking to overcome them at high speed. In this case, it doesn’t really matter if you let runners get up to speed before the starting line, since the speed is not going to help you surmount these hurdles, and can even make it harder, forcing you to perform them more precisely and even more quickly. Take the god boost in 1-4, where instead of a simple slam storage, you can memorize and execute a precise lineup to gain massive speed, which is helpful, but the inputs that follow are more difficult for it. Getting to the first hurdle slightly faster than another strategy isn’t going to help you get over the next hurdle you face, optimal room entrance strats to demand skill to reap their benefits. They’re not just a headstart
Also, counting entrance room times would, in IL runs, not be like starting a race from the gun shot, but starting timing when the runners touch the track. Runners then eschew the starting blocks and the proper positioning, which doesn’t make for better skill expression, just a clunkier start that neglects fast strategies and optimal setups to start in favor of just trying to reach record times from a standstill.
In full-game runs, though, RTA would be like if in relay races, the time it took each runner to get up to speed before the baton is passed to them gets added onto the final time of the race. Relay races aren’t so much a sum of their parts but an exhibition of cutting out the repetitive starting strategy to display the possibilities of sustained peak performance.
Anyway, this is all to show that comparing speedruns to a 100m dash is reductive at best and misrepresentative at worst, and you definitely should have consulted more speedrunners from the community who are more than happy to share their thoughts on a subject such as this. I liked the gameplay analysis, and your run is impressive, but when you are not an expert on a subject, at least do more consultation with the people who ARE first. Your replies aren’t convincing me that you’re engaging with the responses from the community in good-faith, and just seem like you expressed an opinion on a subject you didn’t know enough about, received criticism from those who know a lot more about it, and dug your feet in. This is a good community, and the UKSD is incredibly inviting and cordial, and none of the responses from runners have been anything but constructive feedback. If you can take feedback about having been wrong on basic coin mechanics and ULTRAKILL not having a boss with a highly skillful instakill with no setup, you should definitely make a concerted effort to understand the feedback from experts on your other points about ULTRAKILL speedrunning, especially when you’re receiving such universal pushback. Your opinions are intuitive, they make sense at a glance, but you need to ask and value the opinions of those who know more than you before you start proposing changes to the way a game - to which you are not intimately familiar with - operates.
Also none of us are saying the game is flawless, just that some of these issues you have with it aren’t actually issues, but widely benefit the speedrunning community. Almost every speedrunner in the replies has expressed that the timer needs tweaks and fixes, but not the overhaul you’re asking for
Alright, I typically ignore comments like these. But i'm not gonna lie, there is a case of brainrot going on with some of these points. I want to touch on a few things
100m Dash analogy:
That was used to demonstrate how we value "building up speed" in a race environment. In how we value building speed that in one case, and how it isn't valued in Ultrakill's case. That's it. Any analysis beyond that is just your headcannon, and not applicable because you're applying a different point to the same analogy. That doesn't mean you cant use a variation of that analogy to make a different point (which you do here), but that doesn't mean my analogy is flawed.
Last paragraph:
I'm gonna be real, there is nothing of substance here.
I did consult a top runner on my script.
I do engage on good faith. (Why else would I admit fault in some areas of the video?)
I did learn as much about the subject as possible before expressing my opinion in the form of this video. I've talked to multiple people on my stream and in discord who had my opposing view.
I've been intimately involved with speedrunning this game for over 3 months trying to learn all I can about it
I took other runners points in, and just disagreed. For reasons I get into in their responses.
And the fact that you just assert the opposite of me without knowing my process... Well, that's some bad faith behavior.
And the rest of that paragraph is just an appeal to authority fallacy. Just cause a runner is good, doesn't mean they're correct in their UK opinions. It's their reasoning that makes their point correct, not their status. And I haven't found sufficient reasoning to take their stance over mine. Because I value fairness above all the other factors people bring in. And that's the fun part of the conversation: the reasoning.
With how many fallacy's are in your comment, that adds a lot of irony to your statement:
"Your opinions are intuitive, they make sense at a glance."
@@Raitro_ as for the 100m dash analogy, try running 1-4 with the slam storage and then try it with the god boost setup. You’ll see exactly what I’m talking about. Executing the god boost is just a texture lineup, sure, but it does take more skill to get the most out of it.
As for the rest of it, it’s not appealing to authority to say that you should have just popped in to the UKSD and maybe lent a bit more credence to the reasoning of people who know much more about this subject than you. I’m not saying that I believe they’re right because they’re good speedrunners, I’m saying that their arguments have much more experience behind them. It doesn’t lend itself to objective rightness or wrongness, but it does lend more weight to them. It’s not an appeal to authority to value the argument of a doctor who has been practicing for years over a med student. Their authority is pertinent. You shouldn’t listen to them because they’re good, you should put more value on their thoughts because they have relevant expertise and experience, that’s not a fallacy.
1:24 it stands for piss or prank. not perfdct.
4-2 isn’t even the best level in its layer
which level is better
14:08 sunset arthur hoorah
WHAT IS YOUR GAMMA???
25:48 Ultraricoshot x3591 ma god
Start the timer the moment the player moves for the first time
The reason the game thinks you fell from so high after a slam storage is because the game measures fall distance from how long it takes from the start of slam to end and slam storage makes you fall slower than a normal slam causing the game to think you were falling from much higher.
0:34 hold on, V OWNEE???
Bruh I have 100+ hours in ultrakill how tf did I not realize the coin splits when going downwards 😭
I always was speed running 4-2 even after unlocking P rank 😭
Vione. This hurt the very core of my being.
Ultrakill should have a speed runner option
2:41 ain't no way bro got fraud early
11:56 If you look closely, you can see the fifth and sixth guns (the rest are probably also there, just out of view)
12:38 the blue murder GoPro can fly now?
15:05
Outer Wilds music detected
bro did not just spoil layer 7 secret level for me 😭
subjugating mongolia is my favorite part of any ultrakill speedrun
the power of shearchanks
Ultrakill is literally me if i was a game