IBM PS/2 Model 30-286 repair and 8515 CRT display restoration. The "easy" to upgrade IBM PS/2
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2023
- The Dallas replacement module here: www.pcbway.com/project/sharep...
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Tools I regularly use
DeoxIT D5 Contact Cleaner
Hanstar 861DW Rework Station
Pro'sKit SS-331 Desoldering Station
UNI-T UT61E Auto Ranging Multimeter
UNI-T UT890D Manual Ranging Multimeter
MESR-100 mk2 ESR meeter
PINECIL Soldering Iron
PinePowerPSU
TS-100 Soldering Iron
AMTECH NC-559-ASM Flux
Kester 951 Flux pen
MaAnt Grinding Pen
Multicore 60/40. 0.38mm and 0.5mm solder
TL866 II Plus Programmer
Tektronix 2246A 100 MHz four-channel analog scope
PCBs from PCBWay.com :)
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Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio - Наука та технологія
In my experience the yellow color usually comes from nicotine and probably other chemicals from smoking. I've had a few machines that were very yellow but when I washed them they went back to their original color. Those machines were in a place where they smoked pretty heavy.
Nicotine stains are usually very oily and more orange/brown. They also don't discriminate between the inside and outside of something, so there would be a nice greasy coating of it everywhere. Yellow could be pollen depending on where this thing was stored before he got ahold of it. Pollen is much more waxy than oily and wouldn't stay stuck to the outside for very long when handled. That's an easy way to tell them apart. If it was yellow and a dry, dusty texture then I have no idea what it could have been.
@@Darxide23 Nicotine is colourless an odourless, Tar is what causes oily discouloration.
@@rimmersbryggeri "well akshually..."
Never change the way you do your intro man. Simple. Right to the point. Love it.
Thanks :)
That monitor case looked like a pain to remove.
It is. But it was worth it to get that case washed
These display were everywhere back in the 90's.
I wish I picked them all up :)
I like to leave a border on my CRTs (sometimes a relatively big one) since the images is typically better when it is more centered.
This was a perpetual argument between me and my college roommate. He turned his brightness way up and stretched the image right to the bezel. I had mine set lower, and kept the edges within the sharp / linear regions of the tube. We continued disagreeing about this until we both moved to LCDs, at which point, he won -- image goes right to the edge now. haha
These days, the missus and I carry the symbolic torch by arguing whether the MacBook trackpad two-finger scroll should work like a phone screen, or a mouse scroll wheel.
Have exactly the same machine (Model 30-286/1MB/30MB/Adlib/IBM 8514 CRT/same keyboard and mouse), bought it about 8 years ago as I had it in my childhood. Added an IIT 287 FPU, fixed Dallas with CR2032 on top :) Love your attitude and addiction, please keep doing all that you do, we need more retro tech videos :)
Please cover a few more upgrades. Mainly, RAM upgrade (can't find 4MB SIMM modules that work in IBM, tried to fix some usual ones but with no luck). A CPU upgrade will be a good point too, I have Improve Technologies Make-it 486-286 (with Cyrix 486SLC+87SLC) but have not tried it yet.
Nice, I'm still looking for an 8514 display for my collection. I had planned to hack some SIMs in this video but ran out of time. Thanks
I soldered new pick-ups on my guitar when I was a teenager without flux. It was a nightmare. All my solder joints looked like I globbed on mini art sculptures made of solder. My guitar had a hiss to it after that.
I had one of these as my first DOS PC when I was in high school. It was a nice machine.
What a nice machine! I knew PS/2 since the early 90s, but it took me until recently to realize that IBM had a very nice and timeless corporate design for the machines, the documentation, etc. They even have their own font (IBM Plex).
Yep. My introduction with these was how ubiquitous they were at my school district. All kinds of PS/2 models. So, I thought of them as the "big slow ugly machines in the library for finding article snippets from out-of-date magazines." At home, we had a much newer, faster clone 386 in a lovely full tower, with SVGA, a voice-coil IDE hard disk, etc.
Now, I can appreciate them for what they are. Big, slow, ugly, hideously expensive machines with clumsy, awkward setup utilities to do the basic things that any on-board BIOS would do a few short years later, and parts that are mostly not interchangeable with other contemporary machines. ;-) Not much to love. But I still find a way.
Great video as always...Looking forward to your next one about a new PC-Sprint!
Thank you!
I had one of this PS/2, the color monitor was amazing, kept using it until early 2000s when we finally bought a brand new computer.
Thanks for sharing!
the monitors were pretty nice imo
that reminds me I still need to finish my PS/2! I think I don't want to deal with the rusted case - but the worst part, the PSU, is done and it's come up beautiful! Great nice monitor!
Thanks! Yeah, that was quite the find for a fanboy like me lol. Good luck with the PS/2!
I just buy the dallas chips brand new from either the mouse-based or the silicon-based electronics suppliers. Last one I ordered had a date code a couple of weeks prior to arrival, so they're definitely manufactured as and when required. They're a lot cheaper than buying a PCB, chip, and all the other parts to make one of those replacements. They last about 10-15 years, so I'm not too worried about not being able to simply change the battery when it runs out in a few years.
I've got a pair of 8518s that I got half way through a tube swap before I found an issue with the replacement driver board. Having a pair of opening tools really helped, I made mine from extruded aluminium bar stock that I bought from the hardware store and filed down. Unfortunately the previous owner thought it would be a good idea to try prying the case open since they couldn't figure out how to open it, and left quite a lot of marks on the case. It was fine for the front half of the case since I could swap that with the other one, but my other rear case had broken plastic, so I had to re-use the one with the pry marks.
I thought they had stopped making these Dallas chips, Thanks for sharing. Good luck with the 8518, It's a nice display too
@@Epictronics1 Nope, Maxim makes them now. Part number has an extra 8 in it, but is still the same modules we all know and ... love.
I still prefer to replace them with a socket and a DIY drop-in with CR2032 socket though. 👍
Love seeing @necro_ware on my other favorite UA-cam channels! Maybe some day you will find a Coleco Adam computer.
Nice work Epictronics, that worked out pretty well in the end. Also saw my name at the end there, glad to be a supporter!
Thanks! I really appreciate the support!
You’re a good luck charm. I’ve been looking for one of those 8515s for a while and when I saw this video I figured I’d check real quick again for one and scored one for under 100 bucks!
That's awesome bro, I hope it's in excellent condition too :)
@@Epictronics1 I hope so too! Years ago in the late 90s my small private school computer lab was getting rid of all their old stuff and I had a bunch of them when I was like 12 or so. I always loved the white button and the adjustments right on the front. If I remember correctly the white button is mechanical and has a nice little bump to it when you push it!
It's so satisfying and interesting to watch you fix and do thoughtful improvements on these machines. Even though my experience only goes back to the original Pentiums, it's still fun to see the very early ones get saved.. I'm pleased you mentioned focusing the monitor because it was a game changer for me to realize that was possible and simple. I went around focusing every friend's monitors after that. I found a screen filled with small text somehow easier than test patterns because all of the screen could not be focused evenly. I loved the Nokia test utilities, especially the one before what you used here. I have it somewhere if you want it.
Thank you. I would agree that the test patern doesn't reveal every issue, as we could see when I noticed the imperfection later in the video. I'd love to try out the older version of the NOKIA software
@@Epictronics1 How can I share it when I find it? I'll have to send a hunting party into the IDE drives. I'm already seeking the whereabouts of a very nice desktop image with a green frog on it. A dozen years ago it came up first when searching for frog wallpaper. Definitely no longer on the internet. That's certain. (That was today's digression.) 🙂
@@jozsefizsak Haha, happy hunting! epictronicsyt@gmail.com
Love that trick with the slot cover; nice work as always!
Thanks!
The red switch was used for an earlier version of the Model 30. White switches were used towards the end of it's run. I still have my 286 Model 30 (white switch) and it still works, including the hard drive and the color monitor-which looks as good as it did when I got it. Only thing I had to do was replace the floppy drive (capacitors disintegrated) and the Dallas battery, which I was able to find a new replacement for.
I have a Model 30 (red switch) and Model 30 286 (white switch) -- so I always assumed it was to distinguish the two, which otherwise look pretty much identical. Although, the case lid also changed from metal to plastic, I think.
I know its a bit of a sacrilege to purists, but i always liked the idea of slowly replacing every chip on the board with modern components which do the same work, but are engineered better.
Not to say the OEM parts were trash, but there's just something to be said about a vintage computer that has another 25+ years of life added to it just because its components won't break down due to age alone... and it shaves off weight, which is always nice when you're trying to take it somewhere to show it to others.
FYI, When I bought my Model 30 286 in 1989 I had to buy the mouse separately. IBM included the Model M keyboard but not the mouse. I ended up buying a Microsoft mouse based on the retailer’s experience with the IBM mouse.
I'm surprised he didn't like the original mouse. It's one of my favorites. The Microsoft soap bar isn't too bad either though!
The first computers I can remember using were the Model 30 286's in my elementary school's computer lab. I've always had a soft spot for the machine ever since. I bought one for myself a while back complete with an original 8513 CRT and Model M keyboard. I ended up doing the battery hack on the Dallas chip to get mine working again. Currently I'm looking at possibly hacking or building some custom 1MB SIMMs since IBM used a nonstandard pinout on this machine and I could use more than 1MB total RAM.
I was hoping to make that RAM hack in this video too but I ran out of time. Good luck with the project!
IBM PS2 is a best PC. For restoration too..
Beautiful system!
I'd have to agree :)
One thing that causes sector not found error is head movement motor axle that is dried out. Some lube there and got few drives working.
I'll give it a try, thanks
0:42 - From what I've seen, 8086 equipped Model 30s have the red switch and plastic case (I own one), while the 286 Model 30s have the white switch and an all-metal case, that from the look of it I think it's the same of the PS2/55sx model, which is a 386 machine (and that I own too).
I think you're correct. To bad they switched to white switches, the red switch looks really cool :)
@@Epictronics1 Yes. I also prefere the dark-grey base which the 8086 model's case has and the subsequent models lost in favour of an all-beige appearance, which couples well with the red switch and the light beige colour of the rest of the case. Looks-wise the Model 30 8086 is my favourite PS/2.
Great video
Thank you!
@@Epictronics1 thanks
I was about to say, it's a good idea to put Kapton on edge connecters if you solder nearby - lol -.
Don't old PC have too much current draw for coin cells, ie, modern MB only have a 6uA current draw.
I would have, but I couldn't find the damn Kapton tape :) I didn't check the current draw, but I'm assuming that the Dallas chip has something similar to the CR1220.
Yellow mess inside OCs is usually Cigarette smoke
Oh i forgot, if you want to keep the floppy and donot need the data on it ( other than copy protected game or a floppy with laser dots or DRM protection ) , you can simply try and reformat the floppy, if it cannot hold a fresh format then it is unstable, granted you can use it with reduced capacity - bu tit depends on how the defect eg physical scratch or defective surface
7:30 If you bought those chips from the bay and they came from China that's _normal_ hehe! If you got them from Mouser etc then they would have been packaged more thoroughly and they should have perfectly aligned legs.
There are new dallas chips on mouser for those who do not want to build one.
I wish I knew, I should have shared that in the video. Thank
That brown stuff inside was very likely just cigarette tar.
I think the white switch is for the 286 model 30. The red switch is on the 8086 ones. I've got the lesser red switch version.
It's weird, my 8086s have red switches too. I wonder why. btw. the 8086 is not lesser, it's awesome :)
@@Epictronics1 Agree with *@user-wj9xq7ig2v.* I always thought that the *Model 30* with 8086 (introduced in April 1987) had the reddish orange switch, while the *Model 30 286* introduced in September *1988* had a *white* switch. The original 286-based *Model 50* introduced in '87 had the red/orange switch, while the 386-based Model 70 introduced in '88 had a white switch even though both models used the same case. As someone mentioned in another comment, it may indeed have to do with _when_ a given unit was manufactured.
Given that the eject buttons are noticeably different for the *720KB* 3.5" drives when compared to the *1.44MB* HD 3.5" drives, I figured that the different power switch colors corresponded to different OEMs, and were meant to signal IBM repair dealers, but I don't know.
@@oubrioko Yes, that seems right, my Model 30s and Model 50 has a red switch just like the older XTs. I'd have to look in storage to see what color the switch is on my Model 70s but you are probably right. I guess they just decided to switch (no pun intended) to white switches. I think the red switches look cool :) They should have stayed with it as a trademark
I had the 8086 Model 30 as one of my first computers, and I loved that thing. The only thing I would have changed would be the hard drive, as it was quite slow, even for its time. Later I came to find that they could be very unreliable, although I don't remember my own having problems. I'd love to have any of the original PS/2 line right now.
Model 30 Hard drives seem pretty reliable. I've got a few and they are all still working perfectly.
@@Epictronics1 I've got three -- one each in my 30 and 30 286, and a spare that I bought to replace one that failed. All three needed new caps, and had started to damage the PCB from leakage. (You got really lucky.) One of them seems to work perfectly. The other working one has some bad sectors (not too uncommon), and the third is a total loss.
Not sure what to make of that, in terms of a reliability record. Just a data point, I guess.
The floppy drives are another matter. There were lots of OEMs for those fat 3.5" drives. IIRC, my 720K (in the Model 30) is a Sony. I had to thoroughly clean it, but then it worked fine. The 1.4M in my 30-286 had bad caps, and once I fixed those, it worked OK. I think it was an Alps(?) drive. I may have gotten those two backwards.
I also rescued a PS/2 Model 70, which had 2x 1.4M drives in it -- both not working. I bought some spares (Mitsubishi), and between FOUR drives, got two working. All had bad caps -- one had partially destroyed the PCB, another had _completely_ destroyed the PCB. One had a frozen stepper motor. I also ended up ripping the drive head ribbon while tearing it down. (DOH! >< I can't have nice things.)
The not-IDE, not-MFM hard drives in the Model 70 take the cake for unreliable. The one that came with did not work. Bad caps (of course), but also just threw a controller error. I bought a replacement, re-capped it too, and .. same issue. Might be the motherboard, but the proprietary edge connector is, IIUC, mostly just an MCA slot in a different form factor, and all the "stuff" is on the drive. I ended up installing a SCSI drive instead.
@@nickwallette6201 Yeah, all my other PS/2 FDDs had the three bad caps on the lower PCB. Replacing them has fixed them all. This drive is completely different with many through-hole caps scattered everywhere on the lower PCB. The platters had delaminated in my Model 50 drive. I had to replace it with SCSI. We'll restore my Model 70s eventually on the channel. I have no idea if they even have drives in them. We'll find out when they come out of storage
@@Epictronics1 Looking forward to it! :-D
Apart from the model 30 and model 25, I think there's one other computer model that uses drives like these, though I can't recall who made it. I want to say Epson, but I'm not sure. IBM being IBM, it is a bespoke interface, but based on what I've read, it is XT-IDE. Which to me poses an interesting experiment. For model 30 and model 25 owners that can't get a hold a functioning compatible hard drive, the interface on the motherboard exposes only the pins on the ISA bus that the drive needs. While you can connect an XT-IDE to the ISA slots on the motherboard, why not make an XT-IDE card that plugs into the hard drive header on the motherboard. Unless I'm completely wrong, it should work, and keep the slots free for other cards.
That is an excellent idea. ISA slots are scarce in these machines
Nice machine, I've repaired one of those last year. Model 30 286 could be upgraded to 4mb of RAM (or maybe even 5mb) with proprietary IBM memory modules, and I am currently in a process of revers-engineering them and making new ones (waiting for test PCBs to arrive). Although 1mb is enough for 286, it still could be fun to have more. Integrated video on these machine is really slow (it's connected via 8bit bus instead of 16-bit), so separate videocard is advised. And only 3 ISA slots are a pain. Also CPU probably could be upgraded with a change of crystal oscillator.
That's very cool! I've seen the SIMs being hacked, but new IBM RAM PCBs is epic! I'd love to try them out too if you don't mind sharing the gerbers
@Epictronics1 Don't worry, I'm planning to make the project public after testing, both gerbers and kicad project itself. :)
@@MadCatSE Great, looking forward to try them out!
Cool machine Roman 👌
Did you know you can overclock these machines quite easily? Mine was overclocked to 16.5MHz with an AMD 286-16 CPU but I had to disable the parity controller to do so as it couldn't keep up.
I later installed one of those Kingston 386 upgrades with cache, an XT-IDE, a sound card and a fast Tseng ISA graphics card and some home made memory modules to max out its planar memory to 4 megs and it now runs DooM quite nicely.. A Model 30 running DooM and Windows 95 😂
Yeah, I was thinking I should overclock this machine for sure. I've heard there was an issue with parity and I was wondering if there was a fix, apparently there is :) I had planned to hack SIMs in this video but I ran out of time. Thanks
@@Epictronics1 Yeah, somehow some of these machines don't seem to like overclocking. At least that's what I heard.. I was trying to help a guy out from Vogons (I think) and he did the exact same things I did but his machine somehow wouldn't post, but maybe he made a mistake somewhere..
I had the luxury of having 3 planars available to me though and at least one of them agreed with me modding it ;-) That one is running super stable and is very fast for a Model 30.. It completely obliterates the Model 55SX in terms of performance so I'd call that a win ;-)
I accidentally destroyed one of the other planars though trying to disable the on board VGA and the third one I sold within a working machine.
I had issues with the on board VGA that wouldn't reliably disable itself to allow for a faster VGA card.. Somehow that issue was completely solved after I addes the 386 upgrade board 😁
@@pipschannel1222 It's kinda frustrating that my Canon 286 kicks butt with my IBMs. I really should overclock and do a showdown!
pretty sure my highschool had these in the library. for a little while id skip classes to play ega trek from a bootable floppy
We had the slightly older Model 30 8088 at school. I skipped class to play with some very early and primitive CAD software. Awesome memories : )
@@Epictronics1 the ones im talking prob were the 'xt/1' ones. been almost 30 years. wow
if memory serves, the model 30 was newer than the original ps/2 line up. seems to me it was released after the higher end models.
Could the yellow stuff be nicotine? I once looked at a flat where the previous renter smoked for yeeears and the walls were yellow from all the nicotine that stuck to them, you could see where every frame had been on the walls.
That's quite possible. It doesn't seem to be soot
A replacement Dallas (the 12887+) and already flat? :o
Hah, exact same model of PC of the first PC I have ever used! (Before I got an XT myself, somewhat disappointing as it also was Hercules and this one even though it was black and white it was VGA, so grayscale)
I hope that yellow dust isn't uranium powder.
There is a YT channel making videos about chernobyl computers. I'll send it to them lol
This PC should run PC-DOS ... not that other DOS ;-)
Well, I had the period correct IBM DOS 3.30 but I got tired of messing with EDLIN.
I have the same problem with the floppy drive in my Model 30-286. It can boot from floppies no problem. It can read and write no problem. But if it tries to execute a program from the floppy drive within DOS, the heads start seeking weirdly and fail. We are both using version 6.22. Starting to wonder if that newer version of DOS has some sort of strange incompatibility.
I'll have to do more tests to see if it works consistently now
handy man👉
Hi, floppies have a mind of there own
I did have up to 2018 my collection of @ 300 ranging from c64 - Amiga - PC ( 5.25 + 3.5 )
I found the older brand names, Verbatim, 3M, Kodak, Datalife, BASF were the better ones
Ironically the double density were more stable ( was it due to OEM specs and a wider read/write head compared to the thinner quad density ?? )
Very late 5.25's in the cheap LeFloppy were unstable
Early 3.5 in 720 double density, most were good, quality 1.44 were ok, but almost every one of the cheaper ones made from say Pentium 1 or Pentium 2 era were very shoddy
The same applies to burned at home cdroms, the early ones are fine, the later ones all have cd-rom rot - they donot de-laminate ( none that i have ) buy the inner reflective sector goes of colour , it looks like ink blots - and they either donot load of copy part way then are unreadable - i find this strange as the outer edge of the cdrom is what is failing, hte inner section looks fine, and partially written cdroms are written from the inner most sector and fill going outwards
I did in @ 1997 archive everything floppy onto various cdroms, every important floppy i used a dos program called DCF ( disc copy fast ) this makes imaged from floppies - similar in concept to ISO and this is what i use to restore floppies - except many are backed up on now damaged cdroms
The brightly coloured 3.5's are strange, new from box i have working , in both quiet and super noisy on the same machine - my son had a few for school i think 4 or 5 different coloured ones for homework - now, often they ended up in his school trousers and were washed !! they orange or yellow one worked even after a few washes , others did not - they were all out of the same box new
Most times the magnetic field goes week, they need to be re-read to sort of i dont know recharge them
The same with my back up ide external hard drives - i have 4 or 5 older usb 2 external drives under 512G - i try every 6 months to take them out of the cupboard and try and read them, some times i move files around to other directories just to see if there are any read errors, the read/write helps keep them fresh - i need to go to the P2 computer as it has a programs that is used to review archived files stability - a sort of defrag / speed disk for NTFS
that hard drive program is called Disk Fresh from puransoftware.com - i have no affiliation with them other than using the product for 5 to 6 years
The yellow/brown stuff is usually nicotine and tar 😕
Could be, It definitely doesn't seem to be soot since the tube is in such great condition
How can a chip made in 1995 be "Brand new"?
Why not use a new old stock DS12C887 chip? 🙂🤷♂️
Won’t the battery be dead also? Or they have protection against discharge when stored?
@@Marco.Teixeira
My understanding is that as long as the chip isn't installed then the internal battery should be good. Would be a cool experiment to try though 🙂👍
Mine has a white switch too...
It's really odd. I wonder why
Mine too.
@Epictronics1 I'm not sure, I just did a quick search on Google and it seems most of the model 30's had white power switches.
28:28 Why isn't that the Gold version? tsk tsk tsk ;-)
Ah, that's why it sounded so weird! Well, it has a golden card now and working perfectly :)
That hard drive has more caps on the board… if it fails again replace them also…
Oh, I forgot to check the hidden area of the PCB, thanks for pointing it out
@@Epictronics1 no problem. If you actually get to it, I would appreciate to know the values for those. My electronics experience is short, and I can’t seem to find a schematics for that drive. A vídeo would be nice! :-)
bend leg LOL look like they drop it so hard cause legs to bend lol it just make me laughing so hard
and diskettes drive need be moving alot in order fix it self because it sat too long without moving can leads to it not working
oh oh oh yahh i remember now back in old day tv show dad sit on chair watching son stick fort in outlets and mom show up say dont do that son and dad say whoa let him do it (zappped) dad say well that when you learn not do something aging LOL that got me to remember dont mess with monitors without skills and tools