Spinning reel comparison - Shimano stradic ci4 vs Daiwa Ballistic LT
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2024
- I'm going to compare the Shimano Stradic Ci4+ and the Daiwa Ballistic LT. Both spinning reel are size 2500. They are pretty close in terms of features, it's hard to say one is better than the other.
*This reel is perfect for me **enjoyable.fishing** recommend the price, the look, the drag. Just a little bit noisy if tension knob is not right on the click. If well ajusted...no backlash ! Love it !!*
Daiwa just absolutely rules at the moment quality wise - however here in germany the ci4+ retails for 130€ and the ballistic for 189€. Easy win for shimano and you would be a fool to choose the slightly better Daiwa over the Shimano for an added expense of 60€.
With that being said - the Daiwa reels below the 150€ mark kill everything that shimano produces in that lower price area. Don't buy the manufacturer - buy the quality!
Do you feel it's better than the new Shimano FL?
I've been using both brands since the early 70's, but I do tend to find the Daiwa line to be a bit more durable.
if you wanted more line capacity just get the 3000 ci4.. has the same body as the 2500 with a bigger spool.. or you could just get a 3000 spool for your ci4..
I think the Tatula is a better comparision to the Stradic ci4+. Ballistic offers quite a bit more in terms of sealing which while slight you can feel. All three are excellent reels. Did you notice a bit of handle knob side to side play? I swapped the bushing out for bearings (i don't care about knobs that spinner for 10 seconds) But it removed all the lateral play. ANd since the handles are interchangeable between 4 differe lt reels. It transformed them into very precise feeling reels.
And taking apart the reel is very simple....Easy apart easy back together.
Is the Shimando Stradic Ci4+ smoother or is the Daiwa Tatula LT smoother in your opinion? Also, which do you feel is an overall better reel? I really want to know because I've been looking for a new bass spinning reel and I just feel as if the Stradic Ci4+ is just overhyped. Which would you choose or recommend? Sorry if these questions are basic because I'm just 15 lol.
@J Hoffy Got the Stradic Ci4+ for Christmas.
I use Shimano and Daiwa. Daiwa has comes out with better features in the past then Shimano has.
Yessir they have!!Shimano lost in space bro
I read the comments and found them very interesting in regards to the durability issue, I had the exact opposite experience with Daiwa ultralights. I bought my first one in the mid 80's and it started to grind it's bearings within the warranty period so I took it back and the store gave me an another reel, that one also had bearings that started to grind 3 or 4 months into using it, so took it back and they gave me upgrade to a Daiwa Gold. I went from a $40 (in mid 80's dollars which today is about $93) to a $60 reel which is about $140 today (these prices are from distant memory so I could be wrong); that last reel lasted longer than the warranty but 2 years after the warranty expired it too started to make grinding sounds. After that fiasco with Daiwa I went with a Penn and that lasted a long time and mysteriously disappeared when I moved, so I replaced it with a Shimano Aero in the 90's and still use that one today but it's bearings are beginning to feel slightly rough so I have to see if can be lubed. So due to may experiences with Daiwa I'll probably go with the Stradic ci4+ if I can't get the Aero to work good.
Nice review. I've been a Shimano guy for many years and they've never failed me but recently I've looked at what else is out there and bought a Daiwa Tatula LT 4000. WOW ! What a difference in smoothness. That shop didn't have a Ballistic or I might have bought it. Daiwa is definitely on top of the game presently in my opinion. My Stradic is now my backup that may never be needed.
That's because the tatula dosnt have any protection from salt, the balistic has salt protect but is not as smooth, the stradic has salt protection and smooth as hell
I felt them side by side today. Diawa iis much smoother!
why in the world would you want more line capacity when using braids? I hate putting mono backing but at the same time i do not like how shallow-spooled reels have lower drag so always end up buying the deep-spool and putting tons of mono backing which is annoying
great review. thank you for mentioning saltwater/freshwater use, most reviews dont really mention that. its the most important detail for me. we only have saltwater fishing
This 3rd generation Stradic Ci4 is much better than the prior two, which didn't compare in gearing to the regular Stradic. It's noteworthy that on paper the Ballistic's lighter and has more drag. Could there be that much difference in drag performance? It's also an experienced point you mentioned that the Shimano's don't hold quite the line capacity they state. The Aero Wrap II, Power Roller, and Super Stopper II have been on Shimano's for over two decades. In many ways they had to play catch up a bit to Daiwa's gearing and drag on their overall lineup. They certainly did! Great review, essentially a comparison is splitting hairs on just about everything.
No Way man! I am just working on the same review. Hopefully people will still check mine tomorrow! : ( I owned the regular Ballistic (NOT LT) but sold it because just felt heavy and too much resistance and was not as smooth as the stradic. Maybe the LT has less resistance than the regular. My comparison will be Stradic vs Theory though, and i can tell you, its a much better match for the Stradic
The heavy winding is the price you pay for all the seals on the Daiwa, which cost a fortune to replace at service time. You can't beat Shimano for smoothness and line lay. Don't even mention Penn!
I'm a bit older than most posters here I suspect. I have Daiwa reels from when I was in High School and they all still work. But my fishing has always been fresh water for walleyes, catfish , northern pike, bass, trout and the occasional pallid sturgeon.
I still use my daiwa ss tournament reels for pike and walleye😊
I would be concerned with the MGL rotor of the Stradic if you fish saltwater. Shimano had to come out with an additional model for the Chronarch baitcaster (Chronarch G) simply because there had been way too many complaints with the Chronarch MGL on corrosion issues after saltwater use. For me, I would take the Daiwa without a question.
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't notice any issues with the MGL motor, but now I'll be paying closer attention to mine.
It's completely different MGL, on the chronarch it's a ultra light weight aluminum spool, on the cia4 it's the rotor which is made from ci4 carbon and can't corrode. If you don't take care of your gear that you used in salt water, it doesn't matter what brand you'll have issues.
Jeff Chen If the rotor is made of Ci4+, then why do they call it MGL? MGL stands for Magnumlite, doesn't it?
Alex Fu Go check out a ci4 rotor in person its very obvious, or you can even ask shimano directly. MGL is justva maketing term like xship hagane etc. The only spinning reel shimano currently uses magnisium in is the stella fi. The old sustain and older ci4 also had MGL rotors made from carbon composites.
I think that the Stradic 3000 is the same size and weight as the 2500 but with the larger line copacity.
matthew lidrich very good point! That would’ve been a good thing to mention in the video.
It looks like you haven’t use the ballistic yet. You should give it a shot then do the comparison. I switched after I use both. Al thought the stradic is a great reel and I am still a fan. I give the ballistic the slight edge.
Im a shimano guy but ive gotta give it to daiwa i believe their new spinning reels are superior, i find that daiwa seems to offer more value. But ive found shimano baitcasters to perform better especialy finesse, bfs is the goat
Christian Flores I don't have a preference in brands. Good is good. However Daiwa's LT edition spinning reels are really nice and with you on Shimano baitcasters. The MGL reels are sweet!
Dc for the win
I have a couple of Shimano Stradic CI4 in 4000. The only suggestion I would like to see in the Daiwa is a better spool lip. I'm in the market for a new 1000 model for my Australian Flats Fishing - I'd buy a Daiwa one tomorrow just to give it a try if they had a better spool lip for cast distance and assumed smoothness (but the round spool lip puts me off a bit). The Shimano are awesome are light, and have served me well though. I'm with you, best clicker is a LOUD clicker!!!
More line capacity means smaler brake-shim diameter. Results in a less smooth brake and less breaking power.
I recently brought the ballistic lt I would say it’s a pretty good reel overall but I’m kinda disappointed in the line lay
Just bought both of these and have to admit the ballistic feels more quality and robust, love the thicker bail & action.. the reverse lever feature is a bonus too. I've yet to fish them and only paired them with rods to get an overall feel but my guts telling me I will probably be reaching for the vanford as my go to... is that strange??
I love Diawa I’m a Diawa guy but can’t knock shimano I just bought the stadic FL best reel in that range hands down
Easily!!!
Just replaced my stradic fl 1000 with a ballistic lt 1000 for trout fishing
Nice reviews on both da reels. Dare are some slight differences. I really like dat Diawi da
best.
PUBLISHED specs can't always be trusted....not pointing to anyone.... It would be better to MEASURE drag, line capacity, weight, etc....and report on that. Anyone can read the box.
both reels are a great buy.. as for which one last the longest, it doesnt matter to me because every 5 to 7 years im looking for a new reel. technology is always changing in reels... the only reason i would pick a shimano, on amazon, they have someday delivery.. so so SOLD !
What about the new Shimano FL vs the Daiwa LT Caldia??? i'm having a hard time to choose between this two!
These two reels are completely different inside the michanism,so time will show which is better,but all depends from maintenance! for me the shimano has more expensive construction inside.
Why do you need more line capacity, on the Stradic, PK?? You saying you can cast over 100m with a small weight etc? If that reel held 300m and you lost 100m, I doubt you would be able to hen cast barely 30m because of how far under the lip of that spool the line will start off being at. Let alone after your cast. Much better to carry your spare spool of line in your tackle bag and simply top up your reel. Either that or buy a reel with a very tall spool (a bit like the carp fishers "big pit reels"), but then you will have a much heavier reel to hold all day too.
The reason I personally like the better line capacity is that when I’m fishing I live on the coast of NC and you never know what your gonna hook I like have the extra line when fighting a large fish
If you test the two reels under load you can see that the Shimano Stradic is much better than the Daiwa
s7evin that’s not true, I have these bitch in 1000, and 3000. I’m a Shimano fan but the Ballistic LT is better in so many ways. I can use the Ballistic I. Saltwater and never even get scared of water hitting it. Smooth as butter.
@@TheMass33 Agreed I own alot of shimanos and love them to death but the ballistic is amazing.. so smooth yet durable.. doesn't corrode either. Still a good idea to wash it with hot water after each session just to be safe and get rid of salt buildup
So true put weight in retrieve and you notice the real differens ☝️
Shimano have the best warranty service here in Canada .
Very nice review. Thanks!
Daiwa all the way. Even €70 Daiwa Fuego LT beats Stradic in terms of durability and feel. I ditched all my Shimanos years ago and replaced them with Daiwas. Stella with Certate, Stradics fith Fuego and Caldia. After the LT concept came out, replaced Caldia with LT and Certate with LT as well. Never had so good fishing experience TBH.
I ordered the Ci4 and the Daiwa Saltist Back bay since both where not available in the retail store.
But honestly im struggling to decide which one to get since both reels seems to be nice and durable.
Im not a fanboy because by the end of the day. I want a reel to last a long time so if its you purchasing these reels. Which one would you get?
I was able to order the Daiwa Saltist Back bay for $200 and the Ci4 for $214
Very true. Even my friends that are Stradic fanboys say that my Fuego is comparable (some say better) than the Stradic 🤣
thank you sir i never coment on your videos but i want to thank yo for all your videos i had learn alot from you
i just order my new daiwa ballistc 4000 happy holydays also as you see my english is limited but a just want it to say thank you
I'll go with the Daiwa Ballistic LT6000 for inshore offshore fishing cuz holds more line, plus I love my Stradic C5000xg awesome reel!
Very good video, thumbs up and subscribed. I am having a hard time finding this info but do you think a Daiwa Ballistic LT 5000 that weighs 8.1 oz and has a line capacity of Mono(lb/yd): 16/250, 20/195, 25/140 would be a good fit for a 9ft Medium Bass Pro ocean master thats 15-30 lbs.
1 - 3 oz. or should I go up in size to a 6000 Ballistic thats 11.1oz Mono 20/270
25/225 30/160.
Time will tell which reel is better....
The Ballistic also has rubber seals on the handle, spool shaft, and roller bearing. Making it harder for water sand and debris to get into the reel.
And has magnesium on the bearings
Good video, but in 2020, some questions. Could it be true that the Shimano did not/does not have a simple anti-reverse? Really, how could that be? so, if you are still fishing, rod in a holder, a fish hits the the reel spins backwards? I mean you can buy a 20 buck reel with an anti reverse. Then there is the "hegane" gears--and why oh why would the non HG cost MORE than the one with the so called superior gears?
Anti reverse is undesirable in reels used for sea fishing, just another way for water to enter. Just use the beautiful drag.
All depending how it retrieve the weight of you lure, never had probs with the Stradic.The Daiwa I feel the inside of the gear in this segment and price I dont gamble anymore. Dont let the optic fool you 😜
Does the Ballistic have the minebea bearings like the BG has?
try the japanese models....would be interesting to see those comparisons...
How does Daiwa Ballistic LT compare to Shimano Stradic FK (not CI4 +) and Shimano Sustain FI?
I have the 3000 size for both reels. Daiwa holds more line, shimano throws farther
Looks like a thicker/heavier bail on the Daiwa as well.
It isn't heavier. It looks that way, but it is actually hollow.
Thanks for sharing. Tight lines!
3000 stradic is the same size as a 2500 daiwa. look at the line capacity specs , it's always been like that.
3000 stradic gets the T-handle.
that used to be so. but with the new body of their new LT series, the sizes have changed. look at this for the new sizes comparison daiwafishing.com.au/light-tough/
thanks , i see it now... 3000 stradic FK 170 of 8 lb mono , 2500 ballistic LT , 220 of 8 lb mono. daiwa BG 2500 holds 170 of 8 lb mono.
What about the brake, weight and ratio etc? Line capacity isn`t everything :/
The rest seem pretty close in this comparison..
The quality never lies , I've been using Daiwa products since I was 17....
The Stradic Ci4+ is no more.... it has been replaced by the Vanford series, which will release sometime this fall.
I saw that announcement video. Not a fan of the name change, but I'll still buy it. It's a great reel.
Oregon Life It’s more than just a name change.... other than the color-way, it’s an entirely different reel altogether.
The insult to injury is that it’s a considerable step down from the Stradic FL, yet priced $29 higher! Rumor is that Shimano is likely going to lower the price to a more appropriate $179.99 MSRP.
@@theblake5356 is vanford better than the ballistic lt?
Shinkiro Not in my opinion... it’s closer in quality and performance to the Procyon LT.
@@theblake5356 ok thanks i might just get the ballistic when its back in stock. Im looking to get the 2500 xh. I wish they made the vanford more SW proof -_-
what kind of camera are you using?
For this video, my Galaxy S7
wow, that quality is superb.
The Ballistic LT caught my eye, but I’m loving my Stradics, both FKs and Ci4+s. Hoping for an updated video after you put the Ballistic through the paces. Also, with the Stradic 2500, I just purchased a 3000 for instances in which I need that extra capacity. Still won’t have the same capacity as the Ballistic but it helps a little bit.
PK? How many times a week do you fish? That stratic looks almost new and I see it on most of your videos.
3-4 X a week. That stradic is my work horse.
PK Yi
Wow,,, I might have to look into that. Or maybe a sealed PENN. If I get those Waders for Xmas in the morning it's on PK. 😅😅😅Thanks and Merry Christmas to you out on the West Coast.
How do you switch the handle on the Daiwa I just got it and I can’t figure it out. Something about a bearing or something
Just unscrew opposite direction that you reel it in, you also have to remember to move the seal from the other side.
Daiwa 2500 is the same size as Shimano 3000.
Stradic ofc!
I would like to hear what you have to say about the Piscifun 4000vm. Seem to me to be a great product for the price.
Thats ballistic lt japan gear is made from zinc, right?
And ballistic lt global gear is made from alumunium cnc.
And the price is much higher than balistic lt japan.
Im confused, correct me if i wrong :)
The US market ballistic LT features a machined aluminum gear
@@Jonathan-zq9hw yes that is the red color, it be different for japan series the gold color, gear made from zinc
That's the ballistic FW I believe, very confusing about why they included a zinc gear.
@@Jonathan-zq9hw yes me too, :(
But the price is unbelievable, may be the cost of assembly in japan is more expensive
Might aslo just be the flashy paint job, it is a good looking reel but almost 100$ more is rediculous
Have both.... Daiwa has surpassed Shimano with their LT reels. Also, Daiwa reels are more durable.
Have both of them , D size 5000 Sh size 4000 - Daiwa was dead after I catch around 8-9 trouts
oxbi24 You’re FOS.
Daiwa Ballistic LT or Tatula LT. Either will be fine
Would both these reels but okay for pike and walleye fishing??
Yea, should work great for them.
Absolutely! The only thing I will throw out is I have larger hands and the bail on the Stradic Ci4+ hits my thumb. I've talked to a lot of people who had the same problem. Other than that, they should be roughly comparable. Right now you can get a Ballistic LT for less than a Tatula LT on ebay (or at least as of 3 days ago) though, making it a clear winner in value. I just got one for my girlfriend, and I'm kind of excited to check it out myself.
and how does the Saltist figure in?
That's a heavier duty reel. Different usage and purposes 👍
I spooled it with 8 LB test mono for lighter lures, gave it some practice casts and found that it did cast well ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxSlytCJqozTF7EbdP4LWP-HUXf9WRDJ0e , except that the anti-backlash setting had to be turned up almost all of the way to keep the "overcasts' ' down. I disassembled it, and found that if I potted some "shim washers" behind that anti-backlash magnet assembly, it got the magnets closer to the spool without rubbing, and I could get better control with about a 6 to 7 out out 10-Max setting. I also noticed that the handle shaft had some internal end play, maybe only 2 or 3 thousands of an inch, but it's still noticeable. If the anti-backlash and shaft tolerances were "tightened up" this would be a fantastic value. I've only used it for 4 days of fishing in a month's time, but I plan on keeping it.
You should do some more trout fishing videos
You are comparing two different system number, daiwa 2500 are bigger size than Shimano 2500, even though daiwa are lighter.. impressive
Winner?
The fact that the Ballistic LT has an anti reverse switch and the Stradic ci4 does not is a deciding factor for me to go with the Ballistic.
Seriously, can't imagine any dispute to the point you made. "Top of the line" and if your rod is in a holder, or sand spike and it gets picked up--the reel spins backwards on the Shimano? What????? Top of the line--and you don't have what a 20 buck reel has, an anti reverse gear cog, unreal. I truly wish someone could explain to me why they would neglect such a simple feature that EVERY spinning reel has had--since forever.
Who tf is shimano to end that feature?
@@jimquantic Who wants an anti-reverse switch on a reel commonly used for inshore salt water fishing? Just another water entry point. The drag is so strong, and infinitely variable, it is easy to set it for fish to take line under whatever pressure you want. Not EVERY spinning reel has had these switches, here in Europe they are little used.
@@williamdougie6213 Because they don't want salt water entering the gearing. Not much of a feature either, in my opinion.
I have them both but hands down I like the Stradic its smother but both are still very nice hell my old Stradic is still a better real.
I have both in 3000 sizes and 1000. And I have to give it to Daiwa. Just for the magseal. I wade inshore.
Shimano is like Apple if you’ve been using you’ll never change 👍
Tony Bennett I’d say the same about daiwa lol each to their own I guess👍🏻
Yes, each to their own 👍👍🎣🎣
Yeah, but not for good reason though lol
Agreed, I have two Stradics and a Penn Slammer, the latter used when the surf is wild and wet. I HATE it, the line lay is crap and the experience totally industrial in comparison. My Stradics cast 10m+ further than the Slammer, which can be important here in the U.K.
Nothing like a head-to-head comparison to bring out the fanboys of both brands! That said, I’ve looked closely at the current model lines of both Shimano and Daiwa and at least one thing stands out: Daiwa appears to have more quality choices in the $100 and sub $100 price categories than Shimano. If you’re shopping in the $150 to $250 price range, you will find that both companies offer outstanding choices that compare with each other very closely. As it should - after all, paying that kind of money should buy you great features and performance no matter which brand you prefer. The budget-conscious fisherman, however, will be able to fine tune their decision a bit more precisely with Daiwa’s additional choices if they wish. As for myself, I am an ultralight trout fisherman and most of my reels are 1000 size. I have 3 Shimano, 3 Daiwa, and one Pflueger, which I am giving to my son because he’s used it and really likes it. I enjoy every one of them and consider the differences to be mostly insignificant. Happy fishing no matter what you you prefer and like to fish for!
How can u even compare the ballistic to the stradic 😂 ballistic LT smashes most fixed spools out the water......
Ballistic beter?
The CASTING : Shimano CI4 more far away than Daiwa Ballistic . Tested, Because the SPOOL was different Design
Enjoy that faulty line roller
I’d take the shimano any day
I like stradic
how does the ballistc LT compare to the saltist back bay?
Any pros/cons for having/not having the anti-reverse switch? Ballistic has it, Stradic doesnt.
Anti reverse = water entry point. When you have such a good drag ho needs an AR?
Decided to went? hehe..
Oh yeah daiwa takes the W
Diawa’s Ballistic/Tatula drag system is basically the same as their cheap Legalis/Fuego LT reels. Drag is so inconsistent you’ll have a hard time dialing it in especially if you are fishing small species and end up getting monster fish. Shimano on the other hand esp the ci4 are spot on with their drag incremental which smoothly gives when needed. I use both brands and see flaws in both but due to the drag system I prefer shimano. Even their $29.99 sienna drag system is superior to a $299.99 ballistics😂. Don’t believe me? go put 2 lb line on and battle a 5lb bass or even better yet a 30+ inch Northern Pike. I do it all the time Ice Fishing so sorry Daiwa. Shimano FTW.
i have used both , to me the unbeatable SHIMANO is cast.same sink weight same line diameter same length of line .Absolutly Shimano beat Diawa I mean Shimano go far away than Diaw . the differance is the head of spoon take a look please. shimano is easy the line come off from the spool
kent vannavong
The spool's lip with wide forward angel does realy help for good casting
some one should start a channel where they only test reel drag, see if what these companies are saying is true , guaranteed that reel cant hold 22lb of drag !
Shimano have 6 S A-RB, Daiwa only have 1 CRBB and 5 BB
I have added a spool shaft bearing instead of the plastic bushing and carbon fiber drag washers to my ci4+ which adds 20% more drag bringing it to 24 lbs drag. There are kits that add multiple bearings but I only added the one. Also the spools on the 2500 and 3000 are interchangeable so you don't need to buy a whole other reel for the extra line. Just buy (in my case) a 3000 ci4+ spool for your 2500. And the weight of the reel stays the same still.
Pretty bad review, reading out the specs and just reeling each reel. what about free play in the handle knob, line clip, gear insight. Long-term use of the shimano? In German forums they all say with time all the shimano reels tend to make noises in the gear. So unfortunately you missed a lot of issues in terms of the reels.
Christoph Komplikation perhaps it's YOUR turn to step up to the plate and do a thorough review, eh captain? Give me the link when you're done
PK Yi I am just looking for an new long-term use reel. I could disassemble those as I do annually with my own reels for maintenance. It's just the issue that there are at least 15 reviews on those reels like you did a.k.a. just reeling and saying: it's a good reel! Next time you could improve focusing additional issues like knob play, spool play and line clip.
Christoph Komplikation actually those are good points. I'll remember them for a future review. Thanks
In my experience Shimano reels get a little less smooth in time unless you are very,very careful with rinsing and lubing after use. My Ci4+ gradually got lumpy, after a few dunkings (it started to feel like a Penn😂), and needed a $80 service/repair. Learning from the experience I took greater care of my Stradic XG 4000, and it is still silky smooth, two hard seasons on. Having said that I've got a Slammer for in the surf, when a swim is on the cards. Horrible to use compared to Shimano, but to be fair that's on account of all the seals, though there is no excuse for Penn's piss-poor line lay.
Do you know if the Stradic made in Japan?
Protocl Mine says made in Malaysia
PK Yi thank you.
Only Stella is made in Japan, and yeah u can see that on the Price.
Get 2 Daiwa Fuego reels for the money
im definitely a shimano guy ive never liked diawa and probably never will so i would go to a ultegra there great or even for a sedona fi i own a ci4+ myself and cant get it out of my hands!!!
Wow that Daiwa looks exactly like that Stradic......copy much lately Daiwa
David Newcomb You wish Shitmano are overpriced crap.
Junk ass shit!!!
LOL......Junk huh....Wow....suck morons on here...
LOL.... another DS...
I have the jdm version of daiwa cadia, I like more it than my shimano stratic
Zaion vs ci4 daiwa win
If you want more line capacity on a Stradic buy a Larger model ffs....Stradic wins on features, look at Daiwa trying too copy a Shimano even with same colors sad really.
I can’t watch videos that say hey “what’s up guys” ugh 🤢🤮
Battenkill Rambler he’s definitely not a millennial
Bethel music kids
diawa have no good ideas so they just copy shimano!
then how do you explain shimano's new rotor design? they copied it from daiwa's air rotor. that and shimano can't compete with magsealed bearings
u mean themagname light rotor and stop having a sook shimano is with no dought better then diawa.
u mean themagname light rotor and stop having a sook shimano is with no dought better then diawa.
i have mostly shimano reels and I do enjoy them but saying daiwa has no good ideas and just copies shimano is ridiculous
daiwa*
im definitely a shimano guy ive never liked diawa and probably never will so i would go to a ultegra there great or even for a sedona fi i own a ci4+ myself and cant get it out of my hands!!!