Oftentimes when we try and put the art and artist together, we forget what art is and what we are supposed to be doing with it. Art is made to express ourselves, and on the other end it’s to interpret what we see and feel. You’re forgetting your own thoughts and feelings when you’re ruled by whatever opinion you have on whatever an artist did.
This was really well done! I appreciate essays that instead of offering a direct answer, give viewers the means to figure out their own stance, by presenting both sides fairly. I hope you keep making essays, I think you have a lot of potential (and are already good at it)!
Really enjoyed listening to your video essay!! Would not have known it was your first, it was so thoroughly spoken and paced 💕 As an artist myself, i feel like you cannot separate the art from the artist. There will always be a piece of them within the art itself. Turning a blind eye to the artists beliefs and behaviors due to a connection to the art is a personal decision of the consumer of the art, but the art itself is feel will always have a connection to its creator as well no matter what
Fantastic video essay (and I see Uzumaki on your shelf, ugh I love that manga! 👀). It’s a topic that can likely never be fully closed or concluded, and I appreciate the nuance and consideration you brought to this discussion.
I think there was a time where you could but now that everything is so interconnected and streaming is so prevalent I don't think there really is a way outside of piracy to enjoy the art without benefiting the artist anymore. There was a time when we didn't know all the details of our favorite artists 24/7 so we wouldn't even know till way later, like now in the modern era when looking back for music and we find out all the insane crazy stuff someone may have done over the years.
Wait wait wait. This was your _first_ video essay? Please for the love of everything keep it up! We all know the algorithm is inscrutable magic, so I hope it doesn't mess with whatever schedule you endeavor to support, but from the bottom of my heart I want to encourage you to put your work out there. You stand out starkly amongst your more established peers by being utterly even handed, in my opinion. That there is no answer to tough questions is something so many people find either naive or crippling. But the impossible-to-describe experience of really digging into the human experience of both sides of an impasse is, for me, the only thing that actually feels like progress. I have to give my best (and continuous) effort to understand what someone is experiencing when they say or do what they say or do in order to have a hope of forming my own opinion. For many folks, it ain't worth it, and I don't blame them for it. But to hear someone give a concise summary of conflicting studies, viewpoints, and under-considered factors speaks directly to my own experience of living amongst human beings, and I'm so grateful for it. =) So... thank you, and here's to you doing more of what you love.
Great video, feels like you've been making them for a while! Huge topic to cover for a first video, too. Love a lot of the nuance you bring, and a lot of the more opinionated parts of the video. As an artist myself, I feel you can never remove art from the artist. Just as you cannot remove racism from a white person (we have to be actively anti-racist) due to the system and the history tied to being white, so too should we actively check ourselves in the content we consume and (more importantly) what we pull from it. While I certainly think there is "No ethical consumption under capitalism", I do think it IS important to at least try not to support those spreading more harmful messages. To imply this type of accountability comes as a form of censorship also implies that these harmful ideas AREN'T the norm. I think it's important to note the paradox of intolerance here, and then also that when trying to shut these ideas it shouldn't be viewed as censorship so much as an active defense to offensive ideas. It's of course not offense in the way of like, a pearl clutching puritan, but like something that's actively seeking the downfall of minorities. Anyway, again- phenomenal video
as a musician myself i think it should be on the artist to live up to said art if that makes sense ive met many people who claimed to be comrades claimed to be leftists or anarchists or communists or whatever but twisted and turned to accomidate liberal democratic views in everything they do the way i see it is its possible but it shouldnt be as artists we must be held to a standard of being the first forms of contact for people hearing of whatever idea we are supposing NSBM bands and their members shouldnt be able to play in different bands and be seen as "oh well its not like this is their nazi music project" and thus be ignored
Glad to be among the first to a new channel, really loved this! Arguements are balance and clearly you researched this thoroughly. Can't wait to see what else you've got cooking! 💪
I think it is a great paradox in life that some very problematic people do create something deeply touching and of value. This problem probably never goes away and it depends on the situation what might be the best course of action. I tend to think that human beings are not morally coherent. Our heart contains both good things and horrible darkness. One is likely to have weird internal urges to do horrible things, even when this is not recognised, and we have to deal with this somehow as both individuals and society.
This being someone's first video truly messes me up. Far too high quality to be someone's first, I genuinely expect this to have AT LEAST 10,000 views within the next 10 days. A small recommendation though, having :A Video Essay right after a question mark seems like a strange title to me. I feel as if "Can You Separate the Art from the Artist" as a 31 minute video implies it will be a video essay already. Personally, that jumped out to me before I clicked on the video, and I feel as if it would stand stronger if the ":A Video Essay" was removed. Overall, absolutely insane to me that this is your first video essay. 1.1k views in 2 days is really good, the algorithm is judging your content right now. If your average view during is above like 7, you're about to get 10s of thousands of views within the next few weeks. Sorry for the rambling, TLDR: Incredible content, ESPECIALLY for a first video, and I did subscribe
this was a very good video! i love video essays that are more about a question than the answers. (specifically thinking of Zoe Bee's "realism" vid or, more appropriately, Ophie Dokie's "problematic faves" vid). Really good editing/pace. there were definitely a few parts of the script that seemed less conversational and more formal, but that's something that'll work itself out as you make more vids. And you should totally make more vids!!
I feel like there's a weird divide between what this debate is actually about, and how it gets talked about in video essays. Even the phrase "can we separate the art from the artist?" Is a weird phrasing. Because what's actually happening is that people are watching artists like, let's say, Bill Cosby and asking the question "can I still listen to his music even though he did bad stuff?" To reframe that as "can you separate the art from the artist?" Is a weird shifting of the goalposts right off the bat. The actual question is "should you feel guilty about consuming something that you love if it contributes financially to someone bad?" I mean don't get me wrong, your video was very good and I found your analysis insightful, but this whole conversation really seems like it should be primarily about Ethical Consumerism. Personally, I think imposing ethical consumerism upon people does more harm than good, but even if someone disagrees, we should take the issue to it's very core and talk about ethical consumerism specifically.
Oh also, I'm not a big fan of the way so many video essays like this just explore an issue without giving any kind of position. Like, yes, there are good points on both sides. But who cares? What matters to me is not simply philosophizing about the good points both sides are making, but advocating a specific viewpoint. The point, for me at the end of the day, is to get enough people to view this issue the way I view it, that my more liberal friends will stop feeling so comfortable making people feel guilty for what music they listen to. Like this argument isn't just theoretical. It has real interpersonal stakes. And It would feel very satisfying to me as a viewer if I had more video essayists definitively on my side of the issue, especially within the Left. I'm sure people who believe very strongly that ethical consumerism is important and should be taken seriously (the opposite of my view) would value someone who takes sides too
Extremely interesting video! Finished watching the video and was shocked to find it's your first essay and that you have a small following, really quality video, please keep on doing this! Personally, I feel like a look in the songwriter's character reveals the true intentions behind the songs. I can't listen to the smiths anymore not because I'm trying to spark some massive political change and deplatform the far-right (although yes that would also be ideal) but because the lyrics now feel like unauthentic pandering with no genuine intentions behind it. I feel much more comfortable consuming the art of people who are openly anti-fascist and stand up against injustice, knowing their songs are much more authentic. Also, I feel like the part on music and mental health was very interesting but also maybe misplaced? As you said it doesn't justify any of this, like systematic far-right behaviours and supporting the oppressors. Maybe it justifies small outbursts that are afterwards apologized for, but that isn't really touched on. Maybe this topic on mental health would do better in a separate video, cause in the beginning it did sound like you were going with the narrative of excusing all problematic behaviours with that, but you later clarified. Anyways, those are my thoughts, FANTASTIC video, you earned a sub
i do think it would’ve fit in a little more if i focused on the kanye west situation in its own section, because i think mental health is a really important thing to think about when it comes to artists like him that have severe mental disorders
it was really nice to listen to it, however bc i have really bad attention span it would be so helpful if you add the chapter divisions or time stamps for each segment to make it easier to go back to a certain point we felt like we missed/couldn't grasp.
Philosophers, literati, anthropologists, and others have asked this question for a long time. But, lo and behold, the Zoomer UA-camr wrote an essay in response to the millennium-old question. Could this change civilization as a whole? Are all these great minds in the comments aware of this?
my favorite thing of all time is when folks who listen to gritty rap (drill trap etc) will want to cancel any other artist its like being a king von fan, but cancelling eminem for say the f word, or even the n word folks don't think for themselves
Because truly great art will inevitably utilize the artist’s identity as a person to color it. Returning to Kanye, would albums like the college trilogy or 808s or MBDTF be anywhere near as legendary as they are if they weren’t so thoroughly autobiographical and showcasing of who Kanye was as a person at that time? Truly great art will always lead to a somewhat known artist because that artist will put enough of themselves into their masterwork to be known either way.
As someone who is a big fan of older music, I thought about this topic a lot. Finding out your favorite musician is a morally reprehensible person makes you feel like you have a moral failing, like "if I have supported them, does that make me as bad as them for allowing that behaviour?" Something that bothers me more however is when people who have lived in those times are quick to dismiss the artist's behavior, either saying that those were different times, or saying that they did nothing wrong, and that people can't take jokes anymore because hurr durr the woke mob or something... My opinion is, I guess intermediate. The time period someone grows up in influences your outlook on issues, but at the same time people should strive to change with the times, have an understanding of harmful points of view. And still people shouldn't dismiss their favorite artistss' behaviours! I think on a case to case basis, like if an artist hasn't changed their point of view, and the artist is still alive, you shouldn't make them profit directly (like, not going to concerts, not buy merch, etc). But if an artist changed and understood their failings, I see no reason to boycott them. And listening to them doesn't make you a bad person: it's not your fault for connecting with art, regardless of how much of them the artist put in it.
For me there also is a difference in whether the artist has already passed or is still alive and still profits from their (problematic) material. Personally I am way quicker to dismiss or not support artists anymore who will still profit off of me listening to their music because then it feels as if I was inadvertently supporting them, even if I don't want to.
I do think some things (such as bad faith jokes) can be explained by time period because a lot of privileged people didn’t realize what they were micro aggressions BUT i do agree that for clearly hateful actions we have a responsibly as a fan base to learn from this and consistently acknowledge it
First of all, this "cancel culture" you say exists does not exist. The very musician you're talking about is still making music, and he obviously has a platform otherwise how would we know what he has to say. So, how precisely is he "canceled?" Because people decide not to buy or support his bad takes? Seriously? And to say "If you support not supporting him, you're coming dangerously close to fascist ideas" is really nuts. Leni Riefenstahl was a film maker for Nazi Germany. She made three movies glorifying the entire Nazi idea. Should we support her? If we decide not to play her movies are we the same as the Nazis? And here is what every single white person who talks about this leaves out. The harm these "problematic ideas" cause to people they are aimed at. You know like all the "inferior people" the Nazi put to death because of their problematic ideas? Rejecting a racist or anti-LGBTQ or immigrant (xenophobia) or misogynist idea harms the people those ideas are set against. Being against those ideas does not harm the racist or the misogynist except they get butt hurt that no one want to hear these idea except those that think them. When you can sanitize it by saying "it's just problematic takes, and they are under so much pressure because of their profession - it's a little dismissive towards the people the harm is aimed at. Now we live in a time where if you're going to be part of harmful groups with harmful ideas you don't get to do that without consequence any more. People who didn't have a voice before has a voice now. These problematic people have had a voice since forever. Times change.
was watching the scary cat clock the entire time good video tho
I totally wouldn’t have guessed this was your first video essay! I thought it was really well put together and enjoyable/engaging
Oftentimes when we try and put the art and artist together, we forget what art is and what we are supposed to be doing with it.
Art is made to express ourselves, and on the other end it’s to interpret what we see and feel. You’re forgetting your own thoughts and feelings when you’re ruled by whatever opinion you have on whatever an artist did.
This was really well done! I appreciate essays that instead of offering a direct answer, give viewers the means to figure out their own stance, by presenting both sides fairly. I hope you keep making essays, I think you have a lot of potential (and are already good at it)!
omg thank you sm! working on another long one rn while working but hopefully it’ll be done soon!!!
Really enjoyed listening to your video essay!! Would not have known it was your first, it was so thoroughly spoken and paced 💕 As an artist myself, i feel like you cannot separate the art from the artist. There will always be a piece of them within the art itself. Turning a blind eye to the artists beliefs and behaviors due to a connection to the art is a personal decision of the consumer of the art, but the art itself is feel will always have a connection to its creator as well no matter what
1st video essay and its actually such good quality. Better than I could have done!
Fantastic video essay (and I see Uzumaki on your shelf, ugh I love that manga! 👀). It’s a topic that can likely never be fully closed or concluded, and I appreciate the nuance and consideration you brought to this discussion.
I think there was a time where you could but now that everything is so interconnected and streaming is so prevalent I don't think there really is a way outside of piracy to enjoy the art without benefiting the artist anymore. There was a time when we didn't know all the details of our favorite artists 24/7 so we wouldn't even know till way later, like now in the modern era when looking back for music and we find out all the insane crazy stuff someone may have done over the years.
Excellent writing and production, keep up the good work!
really loved the video, played it while i was getting through my morning routine, very enjoyable 10/10
Wait wait wait. This was your _first_ video essay? Please for the love of everything keep it up! We all know the algorithm is inscrutable magic, so I hope it doesn't mess with whatever schedule you endeavor to support, but from the bottom of my heart I want to encourage you to put your work out there. You stand out starkly amongst your more established peers by being utterly even handed, in my opinion. That there is no answer to tough questions is something so many people find either naive or crippling. But the impossible-to-describe experience of really digging into the human experience of both sides of an impasse is, for me, the only thing that actually feels like progress. I have to give my best (and continuous) effort to understand what someone is experiencing when they say or do what they say or do in order to have a hope of forming my own opinion. For many folks, it ain't worth it, and I don't blame them for it. But to hear someone give a concise summary of conflicting studies, viewpoints, and under-considered factors speaks directly to my own experience of living amongst human beings, and I'm so grateful for it. =)
So... thank you, and here's to you doing more of what you love.
thank you for the encouragement! i’m not sure if/how i’ll be doing more because i’m in college lol 💀 But i love writing so… :D
Excellent video essay, thanks for taking the time and effort to record this.
This deserves more views
This is a great video essay especially it being your fist one! I’m excited to see what you do and make from here on out👍
Great video, feels like you've been making them for a while! Huge topic to cover for a first video, too. Love a lot of the nuance you bring, and a lot of the more opinionated parts of the video.
As an artist myself, I feel you can never remove art from the artist. Just as you cannot remove racism from a white person (we have to be actively anti-racist) due to the system and the history tied to being white, so too should we actively check ourselves in the content we consume and (more importantly) what we pull from it. While I certainly think there is "No ethical consumption under capitalism", I do think it IS important to at least try not to support those spreading more harmful messages. To imply this type of accountability comes as a form of censorship also implies that these harmful ideas AREN'T the norm. I think it's important to note the paradox of intolerance here, and then also that when trying to shut these ideas it shouldn't be viewed as censorship so much as an active defense to offensive ideas. It's of course not offense in the way of like, a pearl clutching puritan, but like something that's actively seeking the downfall of minorities. Anyway, again- phenomenal video
i agree, but i also feel that it depends on the content of the art and how much it reflects these problematic ideals
as a musician myself i think it should be on the artist to live up to said art if that makes sense
ive met many people who claimed to be comrades claimed to be leftists or anarchists or communists or whatever but twisted and turned to accomidate liberal democratic views in everything they do
the way i see it is its possible but it shouldnt be as artists we must be held to a standard of being the first forms of contact for people hearing of whatever idea we are supposing
NSBM bands and their members shouldnt be able to play in different bands and be seen as "oh well its not like this is their nazi music project" and thus be ignored
Loved this video, the music mixed with your voice is very calming to listen to!!
The algorithm gave me with this very thoughtful video. You have a new subscriber.
Love the time stamps, thank you :)
just discovered you thanks to this video, it was great, thanks!
Glad to be among the first to a new channel, really loved this! Arguements are balance and clearly you researched this thoroughly. Can't wait to see what else you've got cooking! 💪
I think it is a great paradox in life that some very problematic people do create something deeply touching and of value. This problem probably never goes away and it depends on the situation what might be the best course of action.
I tend to think that human beings are not morally coherent. Our heart contains both good things and horrible darkness. One is likely to have weird internal urges to do horrible things, even when this is not recognised, and we have to deal with this somehow as both individuals and society.
This being someone's first video truly messes me up. Far too high quality to be someone's first, I genuinely expect this to have AT LEAST 10,000 views within the next 10 days.
A small recommendation though, having :A Video Essay right after a question mark seems like a strange title to me. I feel as if "Can You Separate the Art from the Artist" as a 31 minute video implies it will be a video essay already. Personally, that jumped out to me before I clicked on the video, and I feel as if it would stand stronger if the ":A Video Essay" was removed.
Overall, absolutely insane to me that this is your first video essay. 1.1k views in 2 days is really good, the algorithm is judging your content right now. If your average view during is above like 7, you're about to get 10s of thousands of views within the next few weeks.
Sorry for the rambling, TLDR: Incredible content, ESPECIALLY for a first video, and I did subscribe
this was a very good video! i love video essays that are more about a question than the answers. (specifically thinking of Zoe Bee's "realism" vid or, more appropriately, Ophie Dokie's "problematic faves" vid). Really good editing/pace. there were definitely a few parts of the script that seemed less conversational and more formal, but that's something that'll work itself out as you make more vids. And you should totally make more vids!!
Very thoughtful take onto the subject. I am surprised that this is your first video essay given the general good quality.
FIRST VIDEO ESSAY?!?? girl you are that up
Great channel!! 🎉🎉
I feel like there's a weird divide between what this debate is actually about, and how it gets talked about in video essays.
Even the phrase "can we separate the art from the artist?" Is a weird phrasing.
Because what's actually happening is that people are watching artists like, let's say, Bill Cosby and asking the question "can I still listen to his music even though he did bad stuff?"
To reframe that as "can you separate the art from the artist?" Is a weird shifting of the goalposts right off the bat.
The actual question is "should you feel guilty about consuming something that you love if it contributes financially to someone bad?"
I mean don't get me wrong, your video was very good and I found your analysis insightful, but this whole conversation really seems like it should be primarily about Ethical Consumerism.
Personally, I think imposing ethical consumerism upon people does more harm than good, but even if someone disagrees, we should take the issue to it's very core and talk about ethical consumerism specifically.
Oh also, I'm not a big fan of the way so many video essays like this just explore an issue without giving any kind of position. Like, yes, there are good points on both sides. But who cares?
What matters to me is not simply philosophizing about the good points both sides are making, but advocating a specific viewpoint.
The point, for me at the end of the day, is to get enough people to view this issue the way I view it, that my more liberal friends will stop feeling so comfortable making people feel guilty for what music they listen to.
Like this argument isn't just theoretical. It has real interpersonal stakes. And It would feel very satisfying to me as a viewer if I had more video essayists definitively on my side of the issue, especially within the Left.
I'm sure people who believe very strongly that ethical consumerism is important and should be taken seriously (the opposite of my view) would value someone who takes sides too
Banger video
Great video!!
Extremely interesting video! Finished watching the video and was shocked to find it's your first essay and that you have a small following, really quality video, please keep on doing this!
Personally, I feel like a look in the songwriter's character reveals the true intentions behind the songs. I can't listen to the smiths anymore not because I'm trying to spark some massive political change and deplatform the far-right (although yes that would also be ideal) but because the lyrics now feel like unauthentic pandering with no genuine intentions behind it. I feel much more comfortable consuming the art of people who are openly anti-fascist and stand up against injustice, knowing their songs are much more authentic.
Also, I feel like the part on music and mental health was very interesting but also maybe misplaced? As you said it doesn't justify any of this, like systematic far-right behaviours and supporting the oppressors. Maybe it justifies small outbursts that are afterwards apologized for, but that isn't really touched on. Maybe this topic on mental health would do better in a separate video, cause in the beginning it did sound like you were going with the narrative of excusing all problematic behaviours with that, but you later clarified. Anyways, those are my thoughts, FANTASTIC video, you earned a sub
i do think it would’ve fit in a little more if i focused on the kanye west situation in its own section, because i think mental health is a really important thing to think about when it comes to artists like him that have severe mental disorders
it was really nice to listen to it, however bc i have really bad attention span it would be so helpful if you add the chapter divisions or time stamps for each segment to make it easier to go back to a certain point we felt like we missed/couldn't grasp.
done! thank you for reminding me those exist :)
Thank you!! ☺️
❤❤
Philosophers, literati, anthropologists, and others have asked this question for a long time.
But, lo and behold, the Zoomer UA-camr wrote an essay in response to the millennium-old question.
Could this change civilization as a whole? Are all these great minds in the comments aware of this?
my favorite thing of all time is when folks who listen to gritty rap (drill trap etc) will want to cancel any other artist
its like being a king von fan, but cancelling eminem for say the f word, or even the n word
folks don't think for themselves
Why should we even know the artist at all? Why do artists wish to be known?
Why don’t we just create
Because truly great art will inevitably utilize the artist’s identity as a person to color it. Returning to Kanye, would albums like the college trilogy or 808s or MBDTF be anywhere near as legendary as they are if they weren’t so thoroughly autobiographical and showcasing of who Kanye was as a person at that time? Truly great art will always lead to a somewhat known artist because that artist will put enough of themselves into their masterwork to be known either way.
Separating from the the art artist
I can still listen to R Kelly
When you got spoons make more videos plez
Watched to the end, good job, the unscripted part was funny. 28M
As someone who is a big fan of older music, I thought about this topic a lot. Finding out your favorite musician is a morally reprehensible person makes you feel like you have a moral failing, like "if I have supported them, does that make me as bad as them for allowing that behaviour?"
Something that bothers me more however is when people who have lived in those times are quick to dismiss the artist's behavior, either saying that those were different times, or saying that they did nothing wrong, and that people can't take jokes anymore because hurr durr the woke mob or something...
My opinion is, I guess intermediate. The time period someone grows up in influences your outlook on issues, but at the same time people should strive to change with the times, have an understanding of harmful points of view. And still people shouldn't dismiss their favorite artistss' behaviours! I think on a case to case basis, like if an artist hasn't changed their point of view, and the artist is still alive, you shouldn't make them profit directly (like, not going to concerts, not buy merch, etc). But if an artist changed and understood their failings, I see no reason to boycott them. And listening to them doesn't make you a bad person: it's not your fault for connecting with art, regardless of how much of them the artist put in it.
For me there also is a difference in whether the artist has already passed or is still alive and still profits from their (problematic) material. Personally I am way quicker to dismiss or not support artists anymore who will still profit off of me listening to their music because then it feels as if I was inadvertently supporting them, even if I don't want to.
I do think some things (such as bad faith jokes) can be explained by time period because a lot of privileged people didn’t realize what they were micro aggressions BUT i do agree that for clearly hateful actions we have a responsibly as a fan base to learn from this and consistently acknowledge it
First of all, this "cancel culture" you say exists does not exist. The very musician you're talking about is still making music, and he obviously has a platform otherwise how would we know what he has to say. So, how precisely is he "canceled?" Because people decide not to buy or support his bad takes? Seriously? And to say "If you support not supporting him, you're coming dangerously close to fascist ideas" is really nuts. Leni Riefenstahl was a film maker for Nazi Germany. She made three movies glorifying the entire Nazi idea. Should we support her? If we decide not to play her movies are we the same as the Nazis? And here is what every single white person who talks about this leaves out. The harm these "problematic ideas" cause to people they are aimed at. You know like all the "inferior people" the Nazi put to death because of their problematic ideas? Rejecting a racist or anti-LGBTQ or immigrant (xenophobia) or misogynist idea harms the people those ideas are set against. Being against those ideas does not harm the racist or the misogynist except they get butt hurt that no one want to hear these idea except those that think them. When you can sanitize it by saying "it's just problematic takes, and they are under so much pressure because of their profession - it's a little dismissive towards the people the harm is aimed at. Now we live in a time where if you're going to be part of harmful groups with harmful ideas you don't get to do that without consequence any more. People who didn't have a voice before has a voice now. These problematic people have had a voice since forever. Times change.