I just love how there was a durability patch so that everything wouldnt just one shot each other anymore so that Riot can then add items that re introduce all the damage and burst
Couldn't agree more with this. What's even worse is if you somehow make it to 40mins, the winner is decided in literally a few seconds when one of the adcs one shots the other. No satisfaction in making it that far in a game anymore and teamfights are over instantly. The tension in earlier seasons during a late game team fight was unreal
I said this for years to friends and will now say it again. ADC cant be balanced cbs of how the Math works for it. Let me explain: Damage is for all champions defiened by values that scale with each other. These values are : Damage (ad / ap), repead rate of Damage (Atatckspeed/ Cooldown[as is just aa cooldown]), and penetration If you buy 100 AD, then with a spell that does 100% AD dmg (like autoattacks) you now deal 100 Dmg more. If you then buy attackspeed/ Cdr to attack twice as often, you do twice as much dmg. --> bcs you now attack twice as often you apply the 100AD from before twice as often, making them effectivly into 200AD. If you buy penetration to have your damage reduced to 50% instead of 25%, then you now do 100% more dmg then before. --> now your 100AD from before, which were effectivly 200ad bcs atatckspeed have become 400 AD. In other terms Stats of Damage Items are multiplied with each other --> Damage in league = (number of Items owned)^(number of multiplieing stats) --> Dmg = Items^3 ADC is the ONLY exception, as Crit also multiplies AD, Attackspeed and Penetration --> only for ADC : Dmg = Items^4 For anyone that knwos Math, anything up by 4 grows faster then anything up by 3. Thats why ADC is "balanced" around having weaker items (on their own) ADC Items MUST be weaker on their own then other items on their own, bcs otherwise adcs would ALWAYS be stronger from the first item on, bcs x^4 is always bigger then x^3 Thats why if you would only have 1 Item then an Item like Steraks, or Black cleaver is stronger then JUST Infinity Edge. --> Dmg = (Item strength * Items)^(Multiplier) Lets assume an ADC Item has 70% strength of a Mage or Top laner item. THen top laner would be --> (1* items)^3 while ADC would be (0,7* items)^4 Now the problem: Riot balances ADC around being as strong as other Champions around the 2 1/2 item mark. this means --> if all players have equalyl as much Items (so same gold income) then ADCs are weaker at 1 item, weaker at 2, stronger at 3+. complelty op at full build (but games "normaly" dont go to full build) Thats why riot always tries to make ADC itme prices in a way that they reach 2 1/2 items when the game is at its most important and deciding stage. THe problem: --> Game lengths change with patch and ,etas, with that the timing when adcs should reach 2 1/2 items. Adcs can be ahead, and then are super op bcs then a 4 Items facing a 3 Item top/ mid laner is FAR to strong, cbs his items scale better Adcs can be behind, adn then a 1 Item Adc facing a 3 Item top/ mid laner is completly useles. It will ALWAYS result in frustrating Gameplay: If the Adcs is behind its totally frusttrating for the Adcs, as he is usles. If the ADC is ahead its completly frustrating for EVERYONE else as he is completly op. If the Game finishes fast its frustrating for Adc bcs he couldnt reach the timing in which he becomes usefull If Game goes long its frustrating for EVERYONE else, cbs now adc is ful build, completly op and everyone else is useles Thats why i always said: --> Riot MUST remove crit chance from the game. If Adcs would not have crit chance and instead only the 3 dmg values dmg, as, and pen, then it would have the same scaling, and then items could be as strong as other, rtemoving all the problems i said before. It also is super easy to do that: remove crit chance adn rework the entire adc item system to be centered around on hit effects. On hit effects are multiplied by buying atackspeed and penetration. buying ad does nothing for them. the same way AD isnt multiplied by on hit effects. It would be a x^3 system like for EVERY other role. Adcs would be less op when having ful build or being fed, as items wouldnt scale better then others. and adcs would feel more usefull when behind or in fast games in the early game, as the items on their own would be able to be stronger. this is the ONLY solution to fix adcs. bcs even if you could prevent people feeding, or snowballing and would give no gold for kils and farm, and just give 1k gold every 5 minutes, it still wouldnt be possible to balacne crit, as the average Game length still would change from patch to patch. Some examples for how to make an on hit adc item system: Items like BotrK or Kraken are already good examples of how it would work. Then champs like caitlyn or yasuo who atm have passivs scaling with crit, could scale with on hit. for example Caits passiv instead of doing more dmg for crit chance, could increase the damage of on hit effects by a % value. in the end the passiv gameplay wise does the same, but is easier to balance and more healthy for the game, as ADC player would be less frustrated when behind and not be as useles, and EVERYONE else would be less frustrated facing a Fed adc, as he then couldnt just do 1v9 as ADCs can for years now. Also 2 more side notes: Thats also why Tanks are bad in lategame adn frustrating to face in early game: Tanks only have 2 values: Armor/ MR and HP. --> so defense is x^2, bcs only 2 stats multply with each other. Thats why tank items must be stronger then other items on their own, with all the reasone xplained above, adn why in the early game a fed tnak with 2 items cna feel unfair when you ahve 1. but also why a full build tank is useles vs any othr role with full build, bcs damage outscales defense. a defense rework system to give a 3th defense stat would be good for the same reason. And lastly: The durability patch was horrible: it didnt removed damage, it just made people more tanky by their base stats --> as a result it nerfed burst damage and buffed dps, but didnt made damage less, just instead of getting 1 shoted by an assassin you lsoe 80%, and instead of getting bursted by an ADC in 5 hits you got bursted in 6. also if all champs have more HP/armor/MR by lvl ups then buying defense stats is worth less: if you have 1k hp and buy 1k hp you doubled your hp. if you have 2 k hp and buy 1k hp you got 50% more hp. --> as a result people need to buy less Defense and can instead just buy more damage. that is why the durability patch could never work from the start. So guys, i wish you all good luck and lets hope Riot Game designers will learn a bit of math, as in the end Game balancing is simply said just math (as showed above) GL HF
@@comment4t0r61 Your math is wrong. If an ADC's Items are 0.7 effectiveness, then they depreciate in value with exponentiation. Also, saying that Mages don't exponent with Items is equally dishonest. If anything, they have stronger powerspikes on Items than any Non-ADC Class, since the Items are internally coherent. They give AP and Pen (Burst Items) which have scaling components for MORE burst. They also give CDR and Burn, which synergizes with itself as more applications of DoTs gives more damage. Instead, I propose that Crits should deal a Percentage amplification to basic attacks. Rather than being a nebulous 1.75X at random, Critical Strike Chance should be, "Superliminality." The Stat gives you a +0.2 bonus to every autoattack. The game now functions much healthier as Mages/Fighters actually powerspike harder until Item 3, when ADCs now have 1.6AD Autos. Then, you can have a 2.0+ "Crit" that's both more consistent and easier to balance. On-Hit Champions can use Superliminality as well as Crit Champions, since they can explode the damage with Guinsoo, at the cost of less consistency. EXAMPLE: (On-Hit) 1.4 + 1.4 + 1.8 < (Crit) 1.6 + 1.6 + 1.6 | 1.6 + 1.6 + 2.2 = 1.8 + 1.8 + 1.8 | 1.8 + 1.8 + 2.6 < 2.25 + 2.25 + 2.25 Your process actually fails because now ADCs aren't incentivized to build On-Hit Items. Their superior Gold Scaling should make them build Bruiser/Fighter Items, abusing them at higher effectiveness while being unkillable.
@@omegaminoseer4539 Well the 0.7 thing isnt wrong as you said as i said it as 1: an example, the number doesnt need to be exact. 2: as a multiplies. so if you with my example have 5 items as adc is woud be (0.7* 5)^4 = 150 and a Mage with 4 Items would be (1*5)^3= 125. Its not about 0,7 being the right value (and i wont make the math now to find the value needed that both equations meet at 2,5 items) its ane xample ot explain a principle. also you saying Mages scale better is also wrong, as again iam talking about the principle. ofc the actualy scaling depends on the items power, and if Mage items would be 3 times as strong as adc items they would always scale better as league caps out at 6 items. but iam talkinga bout why crit cant be balanced, cbs you cant make the items as strong as all others, while for bruiser, Fighters, mages, assassin you can easily balance the game by making all Items equally strong, as all have only 3 stats multiplieng each other, ONLY adc has 4. And thats why i suggest the on Hit variation to exaplin again with your magee xample talking about penetration and ap: Lets say you would have an Item that gives all Mage stats : 100AP, 50% Ability Haste (which reduces the Cooldown by 50% of the current value), and Penetration. And then an ADc item that Gives 100Ad, Atatckspeed (of equivilant value as the Ability Haste), Penetration (same value) and Crit chance. THe Damage of the Mage would be 100% Ap scaling, so 100 dmg which he then can apply double as often bcs Haste --> 200 Dmg, and ignore enough Mr to double dmg again --> 400 Dmg THe ADC item does 100AD so 100Dmg, which then can be applied double as oftne cbs attackspeed --> 200 Dmg, and ignore enough Armor to double dmg again --> 400 Dmg, adn then enough crit to Double again --> 800 Dmg. Bcs ADc is the ONLY role with Crit and with that the only Role that has 1 More stat that multiplies with all others. On Hit would fix that, as you can buy Pen, AD, Atackspeed and On Hit: AD scales only with Atatckspeed and pen, not on hit. On hit scales only with atatckspeed and Pen, not ad --> BOth cases its the times 3 multiplies like Mages, Bruiser, Fighter, Assassins and so on. and it MUST happen, as ADC can never be balanced otherwise, as otherwise you will always have a breaking point at which the ADC becoems stronger then everyone else, cbs as explained: with my example of (item power* Item number)^(itme Multiplier) the Power of Adc items must be weaker, or they will always be stronger. so depending on the item strength value ADCs Items will surpas other items at a certain point. Before that point adc is weaker, making adc player frustrated feelig useles. and past that point making all other palyer frustrated playing against an over powered adc. Making Crit consitsant instead of a chacne like you suggested changes nothing about it, just makes it consitsantly op or useles instead of having a random factor. but even with a random 25% chance to deal double damage, it just is 25% more dmg, no matter the chance or guranate.
Teemo main here. I will never forget when Teemo was giga-busted in the beginning because of the three new items creating the Malignance - Storm Surge - Shadow flame combo constantly proccing on Teemo shrooms. Instead of nerfing the items that seemed custom tailored to Teemo's R, they decided to nerf... his Q and 5% scaling on his ult. That's right, they nerfed the ability that's not even proccing any of the broken items. But when surprise, it's still broken, they gut his R and nerf... his E on-hit damage as well. Another ability that isn't even triggering the items. Then Phreak said, "Oh, the E nerf won't affect him too much." But because of how dog they are at balancing, they ended up making it so that he couldn't last hit under turret until 4 points into E or a half item. So they hotfix it but Teemo's 'still too strong' because of the items so they double down and nerf his E scaling... only to to then revert it when they finally touched the items. Now you gotta buy Malignance if you even want to have mushrooms up like you used to on a base level.
I remember this! I couldnt think of an example of the top of my head but this is literally it. I wouldnt mind if when they nerfed the item they remebered the champs who got nerfed and buffed them immediatly but they dont. Teemo gets his kit gutted because of an item.... it should be the other way round
While I will never complain about teemo being nerfed riot nerfing champs not items just shows how little the balance team understands the game. Malignance was in just about every mage build and it didn’t even seem like they considered that the problem was the item and not champs. It’s even worse when you compared it to hexplate which was supposed to be the ad counterpart to the item yet it was never really built even on ult based ad champs
I do actually want to do a video on this idm phreak honestly but his smugness is really fucking annoying apart from that hes honestly alright the path rundowns are great
honestly, at this point, i get it and i would say the same. if everyone can oneshot everyone else, it would, in fact, be unfair to single one guy out and say "no, everyone can oneshot everyone but you can't". If we still had genuinely distinct classes, if we had tanks who had 0 damage, bruisers who were strong early but fall off a cliff in teamfights, mages with range and damage on a long cooldown, assassins with the pick potential and nothing else, it would make sense to have ADC be the short range, sustained, squishy DPS source. but if everyone is functionally an assassin, just with slightly different kits, ADCs are more than okay to fill in the ranged assassin slot.
I'm still upset over them destroying seraphine because people kept building the wrong mythic, and now mythics are gone and seraphine still feels shit to play. I wrote on Reddit "why did you remove the ap ratio on W heal? this is the only ability in the game that heals allies that does not scale" phreak told me. "it scales with ability haste" BRO WHAT SPELL DOESNT SCALE WITH ABILITY HASTE?!
that champion was an abomination and if there is a God of any kind, he will simultaneously smite the people who made Seraphine, the people who Play her and the champion itself
Vodka + water = liver failure Jack daniels + water = heart attacks Whiskey + water = kidney injuries. Definitely water's the problem here, right lads? I feel this is how the balance team does things, only that they put the champ as the water additive.
Nah I disagree , this whole season was the most unfun season to play , at the start of season it didn't matter what each team played cause the team with more ranged champs and mages would automatically win , getting oneshotted by mages (it was a Fizz that oneshotted while other mages still did insane damage) with only hextech alternator and boots(1400gold) as a Hecarim with Shojin and lucidity while also 2 levels above him was not what you call balanced , people who played Brand needed to get 2 items to entirely destroy a team with every player having 3-4 items , and now tanks just oneshot everything and the tankier team insta wins by playing like shit , this is just a horrible season overall and riot should be ashamed for their balance team , shit was more balanced in season 5 when I could stack bloodthirsters on Nocturne and kill everyone 1v5 while coming out with full HP and end the game with 42/7 and 2 Pentakills
One issue I think is that riot completely gutted shieldbow, so the ADCs are just building pure damage instead. I think it makes sense for cait to deal big damage as a "sniper" character, but that power should be put into her ultimate, which has counterplay, rather than her rapidfire autos 1 shotting from africa.
I mean... the gamage overall is overturned as is. It has been for a while but people nothing it only when adcs can do the same as every other champion in the game. Adcs had to struggle with having to weave in 20 autos to kill someone while karthus ult starting mid-late game oneshot adcs without any counterplay (malmortius being a very inefficient on ranged and no spell shield available for adcs unless you can get value from lethality then I guess you could build edge of night) I agree adcs should be oneshotting everyone but they should be oneshot by 1 spell either
Damage issues exists for multiple seasons now... The difference is that now also adc can do a lot of damage rather than being always the one to get one shotted all the time... Honestly riot should nerf dmg all across the board from items and champions... and I mean every single champion and item
Take 25% damage from every role (35% from non-juggernauts tanks) and is done. Assasins need to land the full combo, making the role once more a high skill role, ADC becomes once more a carry role, bruisers go back to be a menace that can turn into an utility bot if things go wrong
The only one should left untouched is assasins they don't have durability to fight unless they go brusier build. Most assasin kit is full burst and go but I would say nerf their late game but buff their early and mid game. So they are more snowballed reliant. Late game they should fall of eps when the enemy stick together. In a 1 v 1 late game vs an assasin and adc it should be 50/50
Explaining the Riot special balancing act which has been happening for literal YEARS. We keep saying "at least the game cant get worse" but the balance team finds a way.
I recently came back to league and what I'm noticing as a tristana main is that putting my bomb on anyone that isn't building tank items is useless past 2 items since the 4 auto attacks needed to trigger the bomb also just kills them. the botlane has become super snowbally because even adcs with no burst built into their kit can oneshot their opponent if they get ahead.
An ornn, ksante or tahm kench one shotting every ADC even being behind is insane. Worst part is that with braindead items like heartsteel or the sunfire, they dont even have to land an ability. All this being unkillable. They do more damage than an adc, resist 20x more, have unending cc, and have assasin abilities like tahm kench’s E. Adc’s are not the issue
I swear riot always does a HUGE balance change as soon as the game starts to stabilize. Like there was zero reason for this or the season 14 preseason that made this season into a complete fiesta
"...and the worst part is I'm in the queue because I'm addicted to it..." The flavor of the slop won't change until you close your mouth and get out from under the slop fountain.
@@Rewleague I'm a veteran of both games, though I don't play League anymore. If you're interested in Dota, give it a genuine try. If you play for 50 hours and don't feel engaged with how much there is to learn, you can give it a pass; else, you'll be in love anyway. Dota is by no means a flawless game, but it knows what it is. Tencent Riot has no idea what it even wants League to be; and pushes changes biweekly just for the novelty factor. Change for the sake of change: not to perfect a design.
I switched to dota 2 and honestly having a blast. Game is way slower paced, you can't surrender, most games feel like every individual player has some impact and oneshots happen only when the person being oneshot is super behind, or when the champion doing the one shotting is specifically designed to do so, and has other big weaknesses. And strategy and tactics matter are way more important than individual mechanical skill. Mechanical skill is important still, there are a lot of ways to juke, confuse and outplay an opponent, but it's not done with 200 years movement abilities, instead it's done with consumable items, map manipulation and ability timings. People who play league and have never tried dota should definitely give it a go. It's hella fun.
I switched to Dota 2 around 1 week ago, the game is just better than League. Every game feels winnable, you just need 1 teamfight, 1 good play, even if 5 levels behind and 1-2 items, you can still beat their carries and win the fight, plus, I don't need to have a Chinese spyware in my computer that only causes even more performance issues, neither the balance team doing "bad decisions" so they can justify their paycheck.
@@xpr3sss1 you might wanna hold off on that last one haha. A massive update dropped a couple days ago. It adds what's called "facet" that is essentially a hero passive like in league, except you can chose 1 from 2-5 different ones. Some augment what the hero did pre patch, some completely shift the way you play the hero. To the point that it's gonna take even the pros a while until they get used to that. But it's honestly awesome. It needs a lot of balancing but it is a really cool addition.
@@HalIOfFamer I really enjoyed the new update, tho. And is quite the same as what Riot is doing right now, but in general is way different. Riot usually creates a meta problem, then proceeds to "adjust" things over 2 months, buffing and nerfing the same champions over and over again and undoing everything they did and was positive to the game, while leaving a trail of destruction in their path, while Dota remains "the same" for a longer period of time. Speaking about Dota again, I didnt realized they changed the game that much until I asked a friend of mine if it was normal to see enemy mana bar xD. I only realized it when I saw the game getting updated every 4h and thought "hmm, something is odd. I dont remember having that much agility early game as Drow Ranger".
Yeah I've been thinking abt going back to dota 2, I saw they made a lot of changes recently, how are venomancer and warlocks doing rn? loved playing with those guys
Just out of curiosity, when are ADCs supposed to 'win' ? As far as I know, the only thing ADCs are supposed to have as an advatange is superior damage through items. But without these changes, Tanks are too tanky to kill, assassins are too mobile to kill, juggernauts run you down before you can kill them, mages burst you down before your consistence damage has any effect, even supports lock you in place until someone else comes to mop you up. I feel like ADC champions have become obsolete and impossible to balance because their original game design was 'damage' and nothing else. So they're either effective at their job or they're simply a walking money bag. I see a lot of people saying 'damage isn't the way to balance ADCs' but i dont see a whole lot of solutions. Another way to balance ADCs in my opinion would be to increase AA range with every item by like 100 to 150 so that when they have items they can harrass with consistent damage. (With their precious damage though, not the current one-shot one) That or better ways to scale becuase they are the 'scaling' role. But now everybody else also 'scales' which makes their original purpose redundant.
Never ahah no but late game for sure but when a game is 25 minutes how on earth do you balance a role to be weak for 20 minutes then carrying teamfights at 22 minutes to end? gotta have longer games to actually have destinct early game and late game champs
Tanks explode in 6 seconds nowadays, you have a 1-2 second cc every 5-10 second to the enemies 5K damage while your abilities are on cooldown. Bruisers have black cleaver, adcs have LDR and BORK, the only classes that can't shred tanks is burst mages and assassins and another problem is that those items aren't just good against tanks, the shred everyone else too
Lel tanks exploded in less than 4s nowadays... only mages are not able to burst tank. A relatively fed assassin can burst a tank like a squishy and he has just less than 5s cd to do the same thing again.
@@Keurgui1 Dps should really only be able to kill a tank if they either dedicate their whole build to while sacrificing damage to squishies, or the multiple dps should be stacking shred to kill them. Adc buying ldr and being able to solo one shot the tank is not ok.
The worst shit is when your 7-1 and you get one shot by a 5-10 Draven bc his support finally landed some sort of CC after 25 minutes and that’s all it takes for the enemy team to win
I mostly agree, but there is ONEoint I strongly disagree with. I actually do think Blackfire torch is a balanced item. If a new item is being used on a champion, it’s because the new item has better synergy with the champion than what they were previously building. If the new item has better synergy, the winrate of the champion will go up. The new item has to make a higher winrate or they’ll just build the old item. So it does make sense to nerf the champions who now have items that more synergize with their base kit. But yeah league of damage is dumb, everybody dying to 1 auto is dumb, and removing Caitlyn from the game (which is kinda what next patch is doing) will not solve the problem.
Riot Philosophy: Oh we have too much dmg --> durability patch --> oh we dont have enough pace and one shots --> buff slowly all dmg for champs --> still not enough dmg --> lethality change --> buff & introduce broken items --> oh no adc is getting one shot lets make them assassins now and buff all their items! I think it's time for League of Legends 2.
Honestly, the few patches before 14.10, adc felt alright. The main issue was the complete lack of defense options. Shieldbow was a joke and now is the whole circus. They really thought bringing bloodthirster back to its problematic self was a good decision. There was a good amount of build variety last patch and now it’s just infinity edge, bloodthirster, and ldr. There is typically only some variety in your zeal item choice which is still a no brainer on most champs. (Thoughts of a hardstuck emerald adc main)
Shieldbow is getting a huge buff ‘even though phreak said adc are durable again’ so surely this buff isnt needed? Or is he full of shit and adcs are durable at all. Build variety aucks would love to see zeal items have more effect on your gameplay
Shieldbow is getting buffed because it's currently the worst item in the game. If you as an adc want a lifeline passive steraks gauge or maw is ALWAYS better.
The joys of riots balance philosophy "always damage, only damage, forever damage. Amen our lord and savior ct" Also adcs arent even broken, they are doing what everyone else does now just without the mobility and instead have range. But they buffed adcs in the WORST way possible. We wanted to play the fucking game, not also stop others from playing the game, if i wanted to play fucking dodgeball, i would go do that. Adc 3 item cores used to be 8100 gold for an infinity edge, phantom dancer and a statikk shiv. Versus today where the most common adc core cost over TEN THOUSAND GOLD, while game length just tanks every patch
I guarantee you that if Riot created League of Legends Classic(like, a separate League instance that is permanently on s4 or something) - many, MANY people would flock to it and never touch the base game lol.
So true. Back in season 4 and 5 there were roles. An assassin was physically unable to kill a tank or bruiser, let alone one shot them. If you were an assassin and went to fight a tank you would waste 40 seconds- this was before the stupid tank meta but rather at that point tanky champions had their place. Adc's started doing huge damage at literal 4 1/2 or 5 items. So a 2 or even 3 item adc chunking you was never going to happen. It's also clear that Riot doesn't want to introduce durability due to the insane eastern servers who allegedly like fast games and burst. Durability patch was the reason I came back to League and I genuinely enjoyed it. But damage now has become insane again.
The damage creep I believe is due to players wanting higher kill count games and Riot trying to deliver on that. It's also not just item and champion damage creep, but mobility and cc and gold creep as well. Leading to action packed quicker games, which many players prefer to play and watch. New items and champions are supercharged. Riot's job is to create enough chaos/changes so that the meta doesn't get stale is all and when you have to constantly change things it's difficult to stay original or exceptionally creative or even intelligent. Lethality items especially are just straight up imbalanced for so long now and I think are the main culprit along with old stormsurge and now blackfire. ADC's didn't use to have a bunch of free lethality in their scaling builds with an IE. Champions that can make great use of both lethality and crit builds are consequently OP AF. Collector especially is op, it should have zero lethality and they can up the gold you get from its passive to like 50 or even 75. All lethality items should have at least 2 less lethality and probably less. Change collector to a dedicated adc snowball item and give yun tal to the ad assassins and change its crit to ability haste and some of its attack damage to lethality. Make Blackfire cost 300 more gold so only dps mages still want to build it and they can lower ap ratios on blackfire passive further or on lilia/brand/Karthus/Rumble kinda stuff and raise their base damage to compensate them a bit if needed.
for sure the dmg creep is end result but its gold creep etc is massive for example first tower in 14.10 gave 150 gold now its doub led to 300 in 14.11 its just so many of these small changes that have added up over time
Playing top lane I was kind of used to getting 2-3 shot by adcs when they're fed, but now almost every game bot lane seems to be a fiesta. Both sides often get loads of kills and you just have to hope your bot laner performs in the teamfights.
i litteraly KNOW a team of 10-15 challenger players with azzapp to communicate the changes to the league community would make the game 100x more balanced then it is now
Agree this is one of the most unbalanced patches in yonks. Between adcs ap jglers and all the other random stuff I can think of at least 10 champs that need massive nerfs and the items are just a joke
Weird hot take: The current game teamfights are dogshit, skirmishs have more impact in the game. The game goes too fast, waves of minions die too fast, coordination matters less.
Damn man , who are you , this cannot be your first time trying this , im very impressed by your only 4 videos , they are easy and enjoyable to watch all the way through , you are doing amazing but again, who are you, there is no way this is your first shot at youtube
Curent state of solo queue - bruisers are locked into a build of 5 items that all cost 3300 or more gold, so basically praying the game lasts 47 minutes (average game time 23 minutes). Tanks are either unstopable machines, thanks to heartsteel, or a weaker super minion thats a bit annoying. Jungle is basically "who can use blackfire torch/profane better" fest. Mid is "lichbane vs galvanized vs profane hydra" galore, adc is "who got collector, infinity, lord dominics" snowball first, while support is basically "what wins? A leona locking an adc down for 7 seconds, or brand pressing R on an adc?" duel. If anyone with a new shiny item goes 5/0 thats basically it, they get drakes, grubbies, plates and snowball into a 9/2 monster that wins 21st minute baron fight, and just all mid push wins the game in 23rd minute. Fun... I love playing against the same items every game. Nothing quite like malignance, blackfire, cryptbloom, collector, opportunity, infinity edge, heartsteel and warmorg every game... imagine if I saw anything else other than champions revolving around these items.
Riot: Introduces broken item. Players use certain champs that naturally have easier using it. Riot: Nerfs the champion. Players still use the champs because it wasnt the champ, it was the item. Riot: We are so smart guys, we use the 50% winrate internet page to balance the game.
Riot typically nerfs the game towards the way they want the people to play, even they felt they had to buff crit (the way they wanted ADC's to play) in order to make people play crit instead of lethality
You know why Riot doubled down on ADC item damage buffs? Because Assassins can oneshot them without counterplay (dodging skillshots etc). At the close of the last split Phreak and August both said that they know what the would need to do: Make funny dash mobility boosting single target burst champions (a.k.a. Assassins) unplayable as a whole. They then said that that would cost them a huge portion of the playerbase. So they did the other thing. Buff the damage of squishys so the can literally oneshot Assassins with on rotation or few auto attacks as possible. And now think about how tanks were changed (the class that does not care about single target burst). Yeah, making sense now?
1 month later, only thing that has changed a little bit is what champions are best at absuing OP items My Garen build has changed from regular tank build with a bit damage to full crit or sometimes one or MAX two tanky items, because if you build three or more tanky items you'll be the most useless thing on the rift still getting oneshotted while taking two R cooldowns to kill one enemy.
So im not delusional in the fact that as a top lane main ive been doing less damage than before this patch. Ive been getting shredded by champs that i would normally destroy
Earlier today was looking at some future changes. Been wanting to learn Aatrox, put him on hold since he is kinda hard but gonna start learning him, the thing about nerfing the champs instead of the items kinda remind me of some of the changes. So sunderer sky and eclipse were broken when introduced, okay fair, you get those 2 and you never die, shojin used to fully stack with 1 skill per target, okay okay if you got aoe it was 4 stacks with 1 skill even, then nerfed shojin, nerfed sunderer, nerfed eclipse, Aatrox went lethality, riot went "why you guys dont build bruister again?", and now they are kinda reworking aatrox taking away the healing from his E by making it scale with bonus HP, but bruister aatrox dont do damage so healing is still low and you are just a sand bag at most, but now it have an HP scaling so lethality aatrox heals way less now. It just makes everything more "kill them before they kill you".
should there be a maximum crit cap like attack speed, because if every adc (caitlyn) just crits 100 percent of the time with IE with her range all she does is one shots from safe distance
one shotting as an adc used to be a very jhin specific thing i feel but now every adc does and it a lot do it better than him and it makes me depressed as a jhin main.
Its way worse, as a Hecarim main, with stuns being more effective your chances of getting to an ADC are slim unless you run clense mercs and EON or your fed and can safely one shot them back. There's no other in between, there's so much damage being thrown out you can't even do what riot wants Hecarim to do (run brusier) , You get shredded and locked down before you can even R , so it pushes players to assume a Vanguard/Assasin kind of role where you have to go one specific build to do any kind of dmg. Also I agree with Karthus being absolutely disgusting for multiple years atp and Riot refuses to do anything to him, mages as a whole were really strong last split but ADC's are js stronger now, with mages trailing js behind.
Genuinely now youve mentioned it I dont think ive seen a hecarim in my last 200+ games so he must be bad. Last time i saw him he was building full damage ‘shock’ like an assassin instead of a bruiser
oh wow, we can't shit on adcs anymore and 100 to 0 them with two buttons with no counterplay, thats really unfair! thats how you sound. adc has been the worst role for as long as i can remember, the moment an adc gets a new build it gets nerfed to the ground (like bruiser zeri) im curious as to why nobody cared when adc role was clearly too weak, and now that its actually playable and does the same thing that mages/tanks/bruisers/assassins do, its a problem. have some common sense.
@@lilperp first of all, it’s a lot more complicated than you make it sound. If an ADC is getting 100 to 0’d they js didn’t position correctly. As a Hecarim player most cc js completely negates the champ. You sound even dumber bc I never said I liked mages or assassins either, I’m js saying Hecarim is only playable as an assassin but he’s been nerfed hard for the sake of riot trying to make him go brusier. Going collector IE is a dumb bandaid solution to the bullet wound. There’s a clear difference between being able to get to somebody or reach a goal through playing well and not even getting to hit the goal bc you get one shot or cc’d every time you posture towards it. I rather be outplayed through someone playing well then them standing and autoing me once and dying from collector. Makes it even worse that Hecarim has 0 identity rn.
@@Rewleague It’s tragic bc even Dante’s has said on stream playing Hecarim feels like shit. There’s js champs that move 80x faster or champs that do 80x more damage. Honestly feels like he needs a mini rework atp bc if you aren’t building shojin Muramana into lethality it feels like your doing no kind of damage
I have been playing League of Legends for 12 years now and i loved this Game. I think It was and still could be one of the best Games ever Made. During These 12 years i have Seen a lot of metas and gameplay Changes. all the good ones and the Bad ones. But a few days ago me and my Friends decided to quit this Game together because we realised that We didnt even enjoy the Game playing solo. We Just Queued Up together to have fun but the fact that there is so much DMG, imbalanced Champs and the ever incresing toxicity over the past years Made this Game unplayable even together. It reached a point where Not even Aram or Arena are fun because of the sate of the Game. We all quit together to Help us stay away from this misery and get over it. Peak League of Legends for me was 2015/2016. After that it slowly went Downhill in my opinion.
More than that, sometimes instead of nerfing items that were abused by certain champions, riot nerfed those CHAMPIONS. And now when some broken items got nerfed/changed riot of course forgot to revert nerfs to champions that were done before. I play GP and in season 12-13 riot forced him to build full crit by adding scalings from a fucking crit chance, then when navoris got changed and granted massive % cooldown reduction and damage amp they nerfed GP's cooldowns by a lot. Now with new patch 14.10 a lot of crit items got changed including navoris, and guess what? None of those nerfs got reverted on GP. His winrate dropped to 46-something percent. Guess we are just building him wrong. Fuck this balance team, they have no idea how their game works.
no problem! thanks for adding the 2ndd comment, ngl I havent seen gp in about 15,000 games because shock he got the riot special. And this is it isn't it he's finally getting buffed again I think but how many months has the champ been crap because of a broken item
To be honest they finally should get out of trauma of season 5 and 2 and NERF DAMAGE. I know they fear dreaded tank meta, when Esport was at its worst (still remember how people cheered for ward kills, because everyone feared to engage in cc fest), but there is reason this role exist you know.
Yeah, could they not balance ADCs to do more dmg to tanks? or make it so seryldas grudge and cryptbloom are good vs tanks but terrible vs squishes? so you have to buy into anti tank stats rather than buying antitank items that are good vs everything?
The player base should definitely have a say in changes and balance patches… like a voting system We’re just at the whims of the devs who are too fucking stupid to actually know what’s wrong with the game
Subbed, i have played this game since 2010 and what this game has turned into is a mess. Tanks that do a good amount of dmg with no damage items, and the absurd amount of dmg assassins, adc's do to each other lmao. Champions like Garen make me want to smash my monitor.
Damage as a whole is so messed up. Tanks (incl support) can still destroy any squish in the game. A tank support Blitz can probably 3/4 a squish with normal combo by himself. Playing vs heartsteel every game in ARAM is so fun. Don't even think about the state of some bruisers. They can build random AD items and still blow half the team up then walk away. The intent for mages is to 'scale' but they've kept pushing early power spikes for mages and now we have blackfire torch. There's Brand seeing successful play in every role. Players love being punished for just being near the wave and losing 1/4 of their health. All new champs have percentage health damage somewhere in the kit. They nerfed and changed Seraphine to push her back to support then immediately buffed her again to see some more APC play. Remember when Mr. Head of Balance Phreak told ADC's they need to build defensive items, Varus played realized they had percent health on everything so they built full support, then Phreak nerfed it all? Smile.
90% of the people on the balance team change the game to justify their paycheck. there’s absolutely no reason that the game needs to be entirely renovated every 2 weeks. they need (excluding hotfixes- which should be scarce) like 4 patches max per year.
Here is an idea for a fix: Tanks: Can't kill anything, but can't be killed easily. Juggernaughts: Less tanky than a tank, can kill things, but take a while. Mages and Assassins: Can burst down a single target, but have long CDs. ADCs: Have DPS, but can't one shot anyone. Utility Supports: lots of CC. Work items around these specifications. I will be honest, it is not fun to play as a tank when I get killed just as squishie and it is not fun that I can't kill a tank, but the tank can kill me in two seconds.
@@Rewleague Indeed. I'm tired to see the tank is also their DPS, also their assassin, and on top of that they are the utility support, with self healing/shields.
Every season the adc players cry until they are the most op thing in the game and then they get nerfed, and the cycle continues on and on. & this is the case with this community since I started playing back in 2012
6:45 I've been saying this since Ardent meta back in s8, bro. They broke Ardent, they killed every enchanter, then killed Ardent and left every enchanter as a useless waste of pixels for TWO YEARS. And they kept doing the same shit for some unexplainable reason
the balance team doesnt even know what role is supposed to do what and what they should be capable of so let me help (top lane is the carry and does most engages in teamfights, jungle takes the important objective to help the team grow and also ganks to help the team farm, mid lane does most burst and cc probably, adc does most poke and uses range advantage, support supports easy as that)
adcs weak, we call for them to buff adcs, they overbuff adcs to then be like well we told u so, see our community doesntk now shit about the game. this balance team needs to go, riot phreak needs to go,
just had a game where i autoed a kindred as ulted riven with sundered proc and almost oneshot her, and procedded to be melted alive by a hwei from half the map away
i OTP olaf and the best way to play him is by targeting squishies. but now i just get one shot long before i get close. and im losing 1v1s to jinx despite having equal items. i don’t remember a time where an ADC could 1v1 olaf and i didn’t make a mechanical mistake. they made ADCs WAY too strong. i don’t even wanna play anymore cause top lane can’t 1v9 anymore unless your laner is genuinely brain dead and dies to you 10 times. too often do i go 2/0 or 3/0 and i’m just getting god smacked by an ADC with two items. IE and lord doms need to be hard nerfed.
And thats... the problem of balancing a game around the casuals. Casuals dont Care about the game integrity or if its balanced or fair. They just want a shit fiesta for 1-2 games and then leave. When league was balanced around professional play and high elo the game was in a much healthier state. They gutted all skill expression to make the game easier for the scrubs and what also makes the game easier? making everyone do a shit ton of damage, so you getting out spaced doesnt matter that much because a single miss click can mean you one shot the player that is much better than you.
99% of the game is casual you cant balance ADC for example around pro play its a completely different game. Although pro and normal elo are both worse off for it
@@Rewleague 99% is casual, but casuals dont know how to play the game. You cant balance shit around people that doesnt even know what they are doing and dont even care. If youre a fucking casual you should have no power on nerfs on a character just because youre incapable of dodging their abilities. balancing around high elo is much healthier because people do know what things are trully strong or just a skill issue.
But the game is balanced around proplay. What the fuck are you smoking? If the game would be balanced around casual gameplay you wouldn't be able to one shot everything. Lul.
funny how you cite a clip from season 10 as the glory days of adc (a season where IE had the same exact stats it does currently) but imo the issue is mostly caitlyn because thats adc i see doing these ridiculous one shots and shes being nerfed in 14.11 along with ie so its not a month long to see changes like you said in the video its just a couple weeks and obviously when a big midscope like this comes out there will be a few outliers and imo riot is doing a good job tackling them quickly. but i do agree jinx should have been hotfixed MONTHS ago its really crazy
caitlyn isnt even that strong. people dont play how to play around her range at low ranks, and its also really frustrating for many champs at higher elos. then she snowballs and its like OH ADC ONESHOTS ME OMEGALUL (any other ad does that when ahead at any patch really)
You cope is crazy to me, how you can defend and adc oneshotting is unreal. Like i say if every champ had veigar ult and one shot is that a low elo skill issue or bad game design. Whats wrong with having a snowball adc kill in 3 autos and the enemy adc whos behind taking 5
But so much else is different to ie and in that ashe clip look At aphelios ult it does 0 dmg compared to now. Yeah saw the cait ‘adjustments’ after i recorded they are more nerfs than adjustments. Its more than this patch though the midscope really isnt that big but the point is the midscope literally just adds more dmg To adc and mages even ludens is stronger and akshan my main is at 54% where is his nerf
@@RewleagueIm not defending adc one shotting? im saying one or two adcs are the outliers and they should be adjusted not the whole role r*ped because caitlyn has a 120% scaling on her headshot. and in the aphelios clip his ult does nearly no dmg because look at his build dude he has runaans and is building into dd, i agree now that collector ldr and yuntal exist there is a lot more ways to do dmg for ability focused burst adcs and that is the problem. and thats why crit dmg is being adjusted as a result. im not defending it im just stating dont act like its the entire class thats one shotting with burst when its clearly just a few outliers that are abusing it
is that not the point of dmg creep though? dd was viable on aphelios he was doing less dmg and taking more damage. The items now are pure dmg even fucking Aatrox doesnt build deaths dance thats mindblowing to me. For sure I agree cait is an outlier and sorry I thought the comment below was also you adding on to the first comment about oneshots.
Bro these idiots, not long ago, pushed that durability patch cuz there was waaay too much dmg in the game, and they said that was the right call, and now it's fucking worse than before, but now it's balanced? what?
Everyone quick to beat down on ADC's as if the last 2 years hasn't been a meme of adc's being the worst role and in the last year 3-4 man dives botlane become a thing. There is no play safe under tower lol As a support main, it's about time ADC's at least got to feel useful pre-3-4 completed items.
pretty much this adc has been shit to play for years to the point where the best bot laners to play were all mages adc vs assassin -> dead "well its an assassin thats their role fantasy" Adc vs Tanks -> dead or unable to kill "well tanks are supposed to mitigate damage of course the adc shouldn't be crushing them" adc vs mages -> dead "well mages do more burst of course they can kill a squishy adc with only 1 set of spells" adc vs fighters -> dead "stay away from them, you have to pay attention to their high mobility and gap closers or you shouldnt be able to fight them" ADC was the ONLY role that completely depended on your team and protect you to do their job but when everyone else can do the damage themselves why should they? Obviously pro play is a different world to solo q. Checking winrates on the patch only 1 bot lane marksman is in the top 10 of winrates for emerald+(2 if you count mid akshan) Adcs finally being able to punish assassin brain players in other roles that just saw food isnt the problem. Its the games global damage... Now I don't want tank meta back but I'm also sick of everyone 100 to 0'ing anyone they get to combo. Everyone is just reinforced to buy full damage. its insane to me "bruiser" champs like aatrox build full damage like an assassin when they are exactly the type of champ that fits the role of lots of hybrid items thematically .
@@path9760 why is aatrox the champ that fits the role of hybrid? all his spells scale with AD and dmg? the more dmg he does the more he heals, why should he ever not go fulld dmg? if he goes hybrid items he still gets oneshot?
@@path9760so fucking true, every role is balanced towards the peak fantasy of that role, except for adcs which are balanced to be the punching bag that you get to express that fantasy towards. its disgusting and now that adcs get to have some fun too everyone starts crying
this is straight up nonsense. kraken item spike when timed well was just insanely strong with lethal tempo on many adcs. before it was lethality for quite a while
From someone who started to play this game in season 2 and saw the evolution of this game season after season, if you hope in a balanced and skill based experience in LOL today, you better leave this game and move to something else. The power creeping in this game is something thats is going on the last 5-6 years, its getting worse every season. Riot or Tencent idk, wants game to be fast paced and unskilled as possible to keep everyone on 50% WR limbo, to spend more time in the game and get addicted so you can spend more money. The community is really gaslighted and lost his mind, its just abuse broken X item X champ every patch to climb. There is something wrong when in a MOBA the TTK is faster than FPS games, doesnt make any sense.
the gaslighting is real! the amount of people that think the TTK is fine is crazy, i;ve played since s8/9 but I guess its jsut blind faith it will be balanced
Good comment. But can you explain what TTK is? Also this split/patch in particular, people are so toxic EVERY SINGLE GAME it's unreal. I've never EVER seen anything like this... Last split was much more chill. Now almost every start of lobby people are already throwing insults at each others or threatening to run it down (especially Junglers), at this point you're lucky if you're in the team which has less toxicity. I can't count how many games I could win that we lost because people mental boomed. Crazy.
Can we just also look at how they completely gutted Ezreal and zeri itemization. LDR max HP passuve legit made zeri, but it also kept mundo, chogath, sion in check but now they dont even build armor cause they just out HP the damage of ADCs.
Yesterday I played a game into poppy and without taking minion agro I would get press the attack off and she would auto me once from my auto distance and walk away having won the trade until she would chunk me out of lane.
Its so true. I actually didn't read any patch. But its is sooooooo true how it feels. I play league from 2009 and this already happened, but now its ADC WHO ONESHOT WTF.
I've been playing every role for years now and the damage creep since the introduction of Thunderlord's decree way back when has been insane. Every role does too much damage and before balancing anything else they should honestly just nerf all damage in the game by at least 30%. Losing more than 200hp level 1 from one spell an aa and a keystone is criminal
back when that ashe clip happened an assassin or mage would have to play like perfectly to one shot the ashe and it would take like 4 seconds, but nowadays an ahri can dash on u miss her entire combo and kill you with w and lich bane auto attacks in like 1 second. in order for adc to be playable they need to be able to punish that which means now you need to kill in less than that time. if they just made everything not completely one shot like that even when u miss everything adc would have be fine. none of the characters in that clip are really damaging the ashe that much also meanwhile in current league if that trundle auto q autos u ur probably 1/3 hp and die to a singular varus q.
In the T1 clips shown, T1 is 20/5/7 at 22 mins. That is fanboy grief levels of int from enemy team. He has 4 items and tier 2 boots at 22 mins which is insane. If anyone inted any other role except certain supps that much, theyd be equally as disgusting. Ive played irelia or garen games that fed and naturally, I shat on everyone. I also feel like before, any other role could just roam bot for a comeback if they threw their lane and now its more risky because ADCs are more lethal earlier.
Oh he's fed that game but luckily theres millions of games of league not just this one. The point was more and more damage keeps getting added to league and your second point is liteally completly wrong. Bot is a stroger lane now later and more important to get ahead so jungle and mid will gank bot more than before
damage creep is a problem to the point a class that is supposed to do sustained damage is no longer good at its role. Solution? give them burst damage. thanks riot. i like to think the correct solution was to nerf all damage or make things tankier but what do I know.
i think the main problem of riot's ballence team is not giving players time to develop new strategies or ounterplay, throught a point it snowballed wher players can't develop new playstyles, strategies or counterplay before riot buffs that play to a pont when you see it's already out of controll. (first time I noticed it was on atrox release)
They've admitted themselves players are super super slow to change builds patch to patch. TBH league is fairly stale I think its better off a massive changes every 6 months then like you say give people more time to adapt rather than every 2 weeks
broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I had to remove a comment of a toxic guy literally telling me 2ad is a placebo buff.... caitlin getting 2ad doesnt do anything apparently ahahahahah
I started banning zyra she presses q and I cannot approach her even when im 5/0 and she is behind... If i try she just ults and kills me with her slow. Either I am slowed forever by one champion or one-shot by the other.
![Дон ДОН, Алаудинов и СБЕЖАВШИЕ из под Курска ахматовцы 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dEfCf5IK26Q/mqdefault.jpg)
I just love how there was a durability patch so that everything wouldnt just one shot each other anymore so that Riot can then add items that re introduce all the damage and burst
literally this
Thank god vanguard made me quit this shit game betting on durability update next season
Assasins were crying because they didnt kill that easy as before. To everyone else, that meant they should hit the full combo
i play the game since Release and i agree 100%
Durability patch was shortlived, they immediately buffed damage afterwards.
When we conplained about getting one shot by tanks, we didn't mean we should one shot them back, yk....
ahahah true!
Couldn't agree more with this. What's even worse is if you somehow make it to 40mins, the winner is decided in literally a few seconds when one of the adcs one shots the other. No satisfaction in making it that far in a game anymore and teamfights are over instantly. The tension in earlier seasons during a late game team fight was unreal
holy shit I used to watch all your videos! yeah thats definility the worst thing I agree, I want a 30 second heart racing teamfight not one cait auto!
I said this for years to friends and will now say it again.
ADC cant be balanced cbs of how the Math works for it.
Let me explain:
Damage is for all champions defiened by values that scale with each other.
These values are : Damage (ad / ap), repead rate of Damage (Atatckspeed/ Cooldown[as is just aa cooldown]), and penetration
If you buy 100 AD, then with a spell that does 100% AD dmg (like autoattacks) you now deal 100 Dmg more.
If you then buy attackspeed/ Cdr to attack twice as often, you do twice as much dmg.
--> bcs you now attack twice as often you apply the 100AD from before twice as often, making them effectivly into 200AD.
If you buy penetration to have your damage reduced to 50% instead of 25%, then you now do 100% more dmg then before.
--> now your 100AD from before, which were effectivly 200ad bcs atatckspeed have become 400 AD.
In other terms Stats of Damage Items are multiplied with each other
--> Damage in league = (number of Items owned)^(number of multiplieing stats)
--> Dmg = Items^3
ADC is the ONLY exception, as Crit also multiplies AD, Attackspeed and Penetration
--> only for ADC : Dmg = Items^4
For anyone that knwos Math, anything up by 4 grows faster then anything up by 3.
Thats why ADC is "balanced" around having weaker items (on their own)
ADC Items MUST be weaker on their own then other items on their own, bcs otherwise adcs would ALWAYS be stronger from the first item on, bcs x^4
is always bigger then x^3
Thats why if you would only have 1 Item then an Item like Steraks, or Black cleaver is stronger then JUST Infinity Edge.
--> Dmg = (Item strength * Items)^(Multiplier)
Lets assume an ADC Item has 70% strength of a Mage or Top laner item.
THen top laner would be --> (1* items)^3 while ADC would be (0,7* items)^4
Now the problem:
Riot balances ADC around being as strong as other Champions around the 2 1/2 item mark. this means
--> if all players have equalyl as much Items (so same gold income) then ADCs are weaker at 1 item, weaker at 2, stronger at 3+. complelty op at full build
(but games "normaly" dont go to full build)
Thats why riot always tries to make ADC itme prices in a way that they reach 2 1/2 items when the game is at its most important and deciding stage.
THe problem:
--> Game lengths change with patch and ,etas, with that the timing when adcs should reach 2 1/2 items.
Adcs can be ahead, and then are super op bcs then a 4 Items facing a 3 Item top/ mid laner is FAR to strong, cbs his items scale better
Adcs can be behind, adn then a 1 Item Adc facing a 3 Item top/ mid laner is completly useles.
It will ALWAYS result in frustrating Gameplay:
If the Adcs is behind its totally frusttrating for the Adcs, as he is usles.
If the ADC is ahead its completly frustrating for EVERYONE else as he is completly op.
If the Game finishes fast its frustrating for Adc bcs he couldnt reach the timing in which he becomes usefull
If Game goes long its frustrating for EVERYONE else, cbs now adc is ful build, completly op and everyone else is useles
Thats why i always said:
--> Riot MUST remove crit chance from the game.
If Adcs would not have crit chance and instead only the 3 dmg values dmg, as, and pen, then it would have the same scaling, and then items could be as strong as other, rtemoving all the problems i said before.
It also is super easy to do that:
remove crit chance adn rework the entire adc item system to be centered around on hit effects.
On hit effects are multiplied by buying atackspeed and penetration. buying ad does nothing for them. the same way AD isnt multiplied by on hit effects. It would be a x^3 system like for EVERY other role. Adcs would be less op when having ful build or being fed, as items wouldnt scale better then others. and adcs would feel more usefull when behind or in fast games in the early game, as the items on their own would be able to be stronger.
this is the ONLY solution to fix adcs. bcs even if you could prevent people feeding, or snowballing and would give no gold for kils and farm, and just give 1k gold every 5 minutes, it still wouldnt be possible to balacne crit, as the average Game length still would change from patch to patch.
Some examples for how to make an on hit adc item system: Items like BotrK or Kraken are already good examples of how it would work.
Then champs like caitlyn or yasuo who atm have passivs scaling with crit, could scale with on hit. for example Caits passiv instead of doing more dmg for crit chance, could increase the damage of on hit effects by a % value. in the end the passiv gameplay wise does the same, but is easier to balance and more healthy for the game, as ADC player would be less frustrated when behind and not be as useles, and EVERYONE else would be less frustrated facing a Fed adc, as he then couldnt just do 1v9 as ADCs can for years now.
Also 2 more side notes:
Thats also why Tanks are bad in lategame adn frustrating to face in early game: Tanks only have 2 values: Armor/ MR and HP.
--> so defense is x^2, bcs only 2 stats multply with each other. Thats why tank items must be stronger then other items on their own, with all the reasone xplained above, adn why in the early game a fed tnak with 2 items cna feel unfair when you ahve 1. but also why a full build tank is useles vs any othr role with full build, bcs damage outscales defense. a defense rework system to give a 3th defense stat would be good for the same reason.
And lastly:
The durability patch was horrible: it didnt removed damage, it just made people more tanky by their base stats
--> as a result it nerfed burst damage and buffed dps, but didnt made damage less, just instead of getting 1 shoted by an assassin you lsoe 80%, and instead of getting bursted by an ADC in 5 hits you got bursted in 6.
also if all champs have more HP/armor/MR by lvl ups then buying defense stats is worth less:
if you have 1k hp and buy 1k hp you doubled your hp. if you have 2 k hp and buy 1k hp you got 50% more hp.
--> as a result people need to buy less Defense and can instead just buy more damage. that is why the durability patch could never work from the start.
So guys, i wish you all good luck and lets hope Riot Game designers will learn a bit of math, as in the end Game balancing is simply said just math (as showed above)
GL HF
@@comment4t0r61 Your math is wrong. If an ADC's Items are 0.7 effectiveness, then they depreciate in value with exponentiation. Also, saying that Mages don't exponent with Items is equally dishonest. If anything, they have stronger powerspikes on Items than any Non-ADC Class, since the Items are internally coherent. They give AP and Pen (Burst Items) which have scaling components for MORE burst. They also give CDR and Burn, which synergizes with itself as more applications of DoTs gives more damage.
Instead, I propose that Crits should deal a Percentage amplification to basic attacks. Rather than being a nebulous 1.75X at random, Critical Strike Chance should be, "Superliminality." The Stat gives you a +0.2 bonus to every autoattack. The game now functions much healthier as Mages/Fighters actually powerspike harder until Item 3, when ADCs now have 1.6AD Autos. Then, you can have a 2.0+ "Crit" that's both more consistent and easier to balance. On-Hit Champions can use Superliminality as well as Crit Champions, since they can explode the damage with Guinsoo, at the cost of less consistency.
EXAMPLE: (On-Hit) 1.4 + 1.4 + 1.8 < (Crit) 1.6 + 1.6 + 1.6 | 1.6 + 1.6 + 2.2 = 1.8 + 1.8 + 1.8 | 1.8 + 1.8 + 2.6 < 2.25 + 2.25 + 2.25
Your process actually fails because now ADCs aren't incentivized to build On-Hit Items. Their superior Gold Scaling should make them build Bruiser/Fighter Items, abusing them at higher effectiveness while being unkillable.
tell me you had this comment saved and didnt type it from fresh. I respect the commitment and passion
@@omegaminoseer4539
Well the 0.7 thing isnt wrong as you said as i said it as
1: an example, the number doesnt need to be exact.
2: as a multiplies.
so if you with my example have 5 items as adc is woud be (0.7* 5)^4 = 150 and a Mage with 4 Items would be (1*5)^3= 125.
Its not about 0,7 being the right value (and i wont make the math now to find the value needed that both equations meet at 2,5 items) its ane xample ot explain a principle.
also you saying Mages scale better is also wrong, as again iam talking about the principle. ofc the actualy scaling depends on the items power, and if Mage items would be 3 times as strong as adc items they would always scale better as league caps out at 6 items.
but iam talkinga bout why crit cant be balanced, cbs you cant make the items as strong as all others, while for bruiser, Fighters, mages, assassin you can easily balance the game by making all Items equally strong, as all have only 3 stats multiplieng each other, ONLY adc has 4. And thats why i suggest the on Hit variation
to exaplin again with your magee xample talking about penetration and ap:
Lets say you would have an Item that gives all Mage stats : 100AP, 50% Ability Haste (which reduces the Cooldown by 50% of the current value), and Penetration.
And then an ADc item that Gives 100Ad, Atatckspeed (of equivilant value as the Ability Haste), Penetration (same value) and Crit chance.
THe Damage of the Mage would be 100% Ap scaling, so 100 dmg which he then can apply double as often bcs Haste --> 200 Dmg, and ignore enough Mr to double dmg again --> 400 Dmg
THe ADC item does 100AD so 100Dmg, which then can be applied double as oftne cbs attackspeed --> 200 Dmg, and ignore enough Armor to double dmg again
--> 400 Dmg, adn then enough crit to Double again --> 800 Dmg.
Bcs ADc is the ONLY role with Crit and with that the only Role that has 1 More stat that multiplies with all others.
On Hit would fix that, as you can buy Pen, AD, Atackspeed and On Hit:
AD scales only with Atatckspeed and pen, not on hit.
On hit scales only with atatckspeed and Pen, not ad
--> BOth cases its the times 3 multiplies like Mages, Bruiser, Fighter, Assassins and so on.
and it MUST happen, as ADC can never be balanced otherwise, as otherwise you will always have a breaking point at which the ADC becoems stronger then everyone else, cbs as explained:
with my example of (item power* Item number)^(itme Multiplier) the Power of Adc items must be weaker, or they will always be stronger. so depending on the item strength value ADCs Items will surpas other items at a certain point. Before that point adc is weaker, making adc player frustrated feelig useles. and past that point making all other palyer frustrated playing against an over powered adc.
Making Crit consitsant instead of a chacne like you suggested changes nothing about it, just makes it consitsantly op or useles instead of having a random factor. but even with a random 25% chance to deal double damage, it just is 25% more dmg, no matter the chance or guranate.
Teemo main here. I will never forget when Teemo was giga-busted in the beginning because of the three new items creating the Malignance - Storm Surge - Shadow flame combo constantly proccing on Teemo shrooms.
Instead of nerfing the items that seemed custom tailored to Teemo's R, they decided to nerf... his Q and 5% scaling on his ult. That's right, they nerfed the ability that's not even proccing any of the broken items. But when surprise, it's still broken, they gut his R and nerf... his E on-hit damage as well. Another ability that isn't even triggering the items.
Then Phreak said, "Oh, the E nerf won't affect him too much." But because of how dog they are at balancing, they ended up making it so that he couldn't last hit under turret until 4 points into E or a half item. So they hotfix it but Teemo's 'still too strong' because of the items so they double down and nerf his E scaling... only to to then revert it when they finally touched the items. Now you gotta buy Malignance if you even want to have mushrooms up like you used to on a base level.
I remember this! I couldnt think of an example of the top of my head but this is literally it. I wouldnt mind if when they nerfed the item they remebered the champs who got nerfed and buffed them immediatly but they dont. Teemo gets his kit gutted because of an item.... it should be the other way round
While I will never complain about teemo being nerfed riot nerfing champs not items just shows how little the balance team understands the game. Malignance was in just about every mage build and it didn’t even seem like they considered that the problem was the item and not champs. It’s even worse when you compared it to hexplate which was supposed to be the ad counterpart to the item yet it was never really built even on ult based ad champs
Sounds like classic Phreak. He does this 500 times- don't criticise him though, then it's "targeted hate", and he has to get off socials.
You play this game because deep down subconsciously you hate yourself
Most self aware league player
"Deep down"
"Subconsciously"
Bro there is no deep or subconscious here we all know it and we all vocally acknowledge it
The comical part is how smug and presumptuous the balance team is.
I do actually want to do a video on this idm phreak honestly but his smugness is really fucking annoying apart from that hes honestly alright the path rundowns are great
@@Rewleague I'd Love to see it man! I'll sub
i had a conversation with one guy, and i kid you not, he proudly exclaimed that its healthy for the game that adcs can one shot assassins
some people are delusional and that cant be helped
honestly, at this point, i get it and i would say the same.
if everyone can oneshot everyone else, it would, in fact, be unfair to single one guy out and say "no, everyone can oneshot everyone but you can't".
If we still had genuinely distinct classes, if we had tanks who had 0 damage, bruisers who were strong early but fall off a cliff in teamfights, mages with range and damage on a long cooldown, assassins with the pick potential and nothing else, it would make sense to have ADC be the short range, sustained, squishy DPS source.
but if everyone is functionally an assassin, just with slightly different kits, ADCs are more than okay to fill in the ranged assassin slot.
I'm still upset over them destroying seraphine because people kept building the wrong mythic, and now mythics are gone and seraphine still feels shit to play.
I wrote on Reddit "why did you remove the ap ratio on W heal? this is the only ability in the game that heals allies that does not scale"
phreak told me.
"it scales with ability haste"
BRO WHAT SPELL DOESNT SCALE WITH ABILITY HASTE?!
that champion was an abomination and if there is a God of any kind, he will simultaneously smite the people who made Seraphine, the people who Play her and the champion itself
@@azmalguthek4502 cope and seethe, or try to find some light, joy, whimsy or all of the above in your life. it's that simple
@@azmalguthek4502such a brave take
Aphelios W doesnt scale with ability haste
Vodka + water = liver failure
Jack daniels + water = heart attacks
Whiskey + water = kidney injuries.
Definitely water's the problem here, right lads?
I feel this is how the balance team does things, only that they put the champ as the water additive.
spot on
This game was so fun and felt the most balanced it’s ever been in beginning of the season and they’ve progressively ruined it
Nah I disagree , this whole season was the most unfun season to play , at the start of season it didn't matter what each team played cause the team with more ranged champs and mages would automatically win , getting oneshotted by mages (it was a Fizz that oneshotted while other mages still did insane damage) with only hextech alternator and boots(1400gold) as a Hecarim with Shojin and lucidity while also 2 levels above him was not what you call balanced , people who played Brand needed to get 2 items to entirely destroy a team with every player having 3-4 items , and now tanks just oneshot everything and the tankier team insta wins by playing like shit , this is just a horrible season overall and riot should be ashamed for their balance team , shit was more balanced in season 5 when I could stack bloodthirsters on Nocturne and kill everyone 1v5 while coming out with full HP and end the game with 42/7 and 2 Pentakills
One issue I think is that riot completely gutted shieldbow, so the ADCs are just building pure damage instead. I think it makes sense for cait to deal big damage as a "sniper" character, but that power should be put into her ultimate, which has counterplay, rather than her rapidfire autos 1 shotting from africa.
yeah, more bursty adc's are important for diversity in the class, but burst can't mean your entire healthbar
This ^^ if dmg was lower normal kills could be 6 autos and burst could be 3 autos and thats imo a much funner game
Shieldbow is getting a huge buff but yeah cait should do slightly more as a Sniper but no adc should be oneshotting its just unsatisfying
I mean... the gamage overall is overturned as is. It has been for a while but people nothing it only when adcs can do the same as every other champion in the game. Adcs had to struggle with having to weave in 20 autos to kill someone while karthus ult starting mid-late game oneshot adcs without any counterplay (malmortius being a very inefficient on ranged and no spell shield available for adcs unless you can get value from lethality then I guess you could build edge of night) I agree adcs should be oneshotting everyone but they should be oneshot by 1 spell either
Damage issues exists for multiple seasons now... The difference is that now also adc can do a lot of damage rather than being always the one to get one shotted all the time... Honestly riot should nerf dmg all across the board from items and champions... and I mean every single champion and item
this ^^
Take 25% damage from every role (35% from non-juggernauts tanks) and is done. Assasins need to land the full combo, making the role once more a high skill role, ADC becomes once more a carry role, bruisers go back to be a menace that can turn into an utility bot if things go wrong
China loves bursty meta...
@@ignacioperez5479this
The only one should left untouched is assasins they don't have durability to fight unless they go brusier build. Most assasin kit is full burst and go but I would say nerf their late game but buff their early and mid game. So they are more snowballed reliant. Late game they should fall of eps when the enemy stick together. In a 1 v 1 late game vs an assasin and adc it should be 50/50
Explaining the Riot special balancing act which has been happening for literal YEARS.
We keep saying "at least the game cant get worse" but the balance team finds a way.
I love playing Ornn and being forced to build 3 armor items with tabis only to be melted by LDR and brand 🎉
Skill issue 🤣🤣 worst bit about brand is he doesnt even have to hit you directly. But its ok because instead of being tankier, you’ll get damage buffs!
@@Rewleague I shall embrace my destiny and become full lethality ornn, WITNESS MY 500 DMG PILLARS
@@definitelynotryanhardt ahahhaha
I recently came back to league and what I'm noticing as a tristana main is that putting my bomb on anyone that isn't building tank items is useless past 2 items since the 4 auto attacks needed to trigger the bomb also just kills them. the botlane has become super snowbally because even adcs with no burst built into their kit can oneshot their opponent if they get ahead.
crazy aint it, like the amount of dmg you have spare if that E goes off
A 0/10 tank killing feed adcs is worse than this.
Ive talked about this in another video and been told its a skill issue 🤣🤣 like ksante hasnt just ruined the best adcs in the world at msi
An ornn, ksante or tahm kench one shotting every ADC even being behind is insane. Worst part is that with braindead items like heartsteel or the sunfire, they dont even have to land an ability. All this being unkillable. They do more damage than an adc, resist 20x more, have unending cc, and have assasin abilities like tahm kench’s E. Adc’s are not the issue
@@augus3nunez914ornn true.... Mordekaiser too now we can't even cleanse his c4nc3r ultimate
But it's what adcs deserve
@@hard5rock5ryan54 fr
I swear riot always does a HUGE balance change as soon as the game starts to stabilize. Like there was zero reason for this or the season 14 preseason that made this season into a complete fiesta
even worse now we dont get get a break between ranked splits
I miss when the definition of a good ADC was how well they were able to orb walk their auto's...
Same thats what people cant seem to grasp, when Orb walking is way more skilled and fun that cait currently
Remember the balance team is in na server were people have no hands
And everywhere were people can play there is no more balance
"...and the worst part is I'm in the queue because I'm addicted to it..."
The flavor of the slop won't change until you close your mouth and get out from under the slop fountain.
Very true dota is calling my name to test
@@Rewleague I'm a veteran of both games, though I don't play League anymore. If you're interested in Dota, give it a genuine try. If you play for 50 hours and don't feel engaged with how much there is to learn, you can give it a pass; else, you'll be in love anyway.
Dota is by no means a flawless game, but it knows what it is. Tencent Riot has no idea what it even wants League to be; and pushes changes biweekly just for the novelty factor. Change for the sake of change: not to perfect a design.
I switched to dota 2 and honestly having a blast. Game is way slower paced, you can't surrender, most games feel like every individual player has some impact and oneshots happen only when the person being oneshot is super behind, or when the champion doing the one shotting is specifically designed to do so, and has other big weaknesses. And strategy and tactics matter are way more important than individual mechanical skill. Mechanical skill is important still, there are a lot of ways to juke, confuse and outplay an opponent, but it's not done with 200 years movement abilities, instead it's done with consumable items, map manipulation and ability timings.
People who play league and have never tried dota should definitely give it a go. It's hella fun.
I switched to Dota 2 around 1 week ago, the game is just better than League. Every game feels winnable, you just need 1 teamfight, 1 good play, even if 5 levels behind and 1-2 items, you can still beat their carries and win the fight, plus, I don't need to have a Chinese spyware in my computer that only causes even more performance issues, neither the balance team doing "bad decisions" so they can justify their paycheck.
@@xpr3sss1 you might wanna hold off on that last one haha. A massive update dropped a couple days ago. It adds what's called "facet" that is essentially a hero passive like in league, except you can chose 1 from 2-5 different ones. Some augment what the hero did pre patch, some completely shift the way you play the hero. To the point that it's gonna take even the pros a while until they get used to that. But it's honestly awesome. It needs a lot of balancing but it is a really cool addition.
@@HalIOfFamer I really enjoyed the new update, tho. And is quite the same as what Riot is doing right now, but in general is way different. Riot usually creates a meta problem, then proceeds to "adjust" things over 2 months, buffing and nerfing the same champions over and over again and undoing everything they did and was positive to the game, while leaving a trail of destruction in their path, while Dota remains "the same" for a longer period of time. Speaking about Dota again, I didnt realized they changed the game that much until I asked a friend of mine if it was normal to see enemy mana bar xD. I only realized it when I saw the game getting updated every 4h and thought "hmm, something is odd. I dont remember having that much agility early game as Drow Ranger".
Yeah I've been thinking abt going back to dota 2, I saw they made a lot of changes recently, how are venomancer and warlocks doing rn? loved playing with those guys
@@newwick I don't play those heroes, so I have no idea
Vids are great for background noise while i play man, keep it up 👍
Glad you like them!
It's refreshing to see someone telling it like it is. fk the chills.
cheers bro!
Did u know that Zed is not an assassin as people think? Zed is just a very weak bruiser, nowadays assassins are ranged...
Just out of curiosity, when are ADCs supposed to 'win' ?
As far as I know, the only thing ADCs are supposed to have as an advatange is superior damage through items.
But without these changes, Tanks are too tanky to kill, assassins are too mobile to kill, juggernauts run you down before you can kill them, mages burst you down before your consistence damage has any effect, even supports lock you in place until someone else comes to mop you up.
I feel like ADC champions have become obsolete and impossible to balance because their original game design was 'damage' and nothing else. So they're either effective at their job or they're simply a walking money bag.
I see a lot of people saying 'damage isn't the way to balance ADCs' but i dont see a whole lot of solutions.
Another way to balance ADCs in my opinion would be to increase AA range with every item by like 100 to 150 so that when they have items they can harrass with consistent damage. (With their precious damage though, not the current one-shot one)
That or better ways to scale becuase they are the 'scaling' role. But now everybody else also 'scales' which makes their original purpose redundant.
Never ahah no but late game for sure but when a game is 25 minutes how on earth do you balance a role to be weak for 20 minutes then carrying teamfights at 22 minutes to end? gotta have longer games to actually have destinct early game and late game champs
Tanks explode in 6 seconds nowadays, you have a 1-2 second cc every 5-10 second to the enemies 5K damage while your abilities are on cooldown. Bruisers have black cleaver, adcs have LDR and BORK, the only classes that can't shred tanks is burst mages and assassins
and another problem is that those items aren't just good against tanks, the shred everyone else too
Dps classes need to be able to counter tanks or else tanks become the best class by default
You are delusional with this
bro saying tanks explode in 6 seconds nowadays like thats not a long time 😂 how fast do you think everyone else is dying?
Lel tanks exploded in less than 4s nowadays... only mages are not able to burst tank. A relatively fed assassin can burst a tank like a squishy and he has just less than 5s cd to do the same thing again.
@@Keurgui1 Dps should really only be able to kill a tank if they either dedicate their whole build to while sacrificing damage to squishies, or the multiple dps should be stacking shred to kill them. Adc buying ldr and being able to solo one shot the tank is not ok.
@@greatgatorgaming6024 what dps champs are solo one shotting tanks again
The worst shit is when your 7-1 and you get one shot by a 5-10 Draven bc his support finally landed some sort of CC after 25 minutes and that’s all it takes for the enemy team to win
7-1 as ADC you are literally the most wanted man on earth ahah
I mostly agree, but there is ONEoint I strongly disagree with. I actually do think Blackfire torch is a balanced item. If a new item is being used on a champion, it’s because the new item has better synergy with the champion than what they were previously building. If the new item has better synergy, the winrate of the champion will go up. The new item has to make a higher winrate or they’ll just build the old item. So it does make sense to nerf the champions who now have items that more synergize with their base kit.
But yeah league of damage is dumb, everybody dying to 1 auto is dumb, and removing Caitlyn from the game (which is kinda what next patch is doing) will not solve the problem.
Never thought I'll see the day when a 10/3 Rengar uses ultimate to run away from 3 items Caitlyn.
Even early game, the botlane is now about who hits a singular cc skillshot. Cuz you just die instantly nowadays
Can we go back to damage level of season 4-6? There is a reason why that was the Golden moment of league
It's fair to say that the majority of the community just hated this patch.
Riot Philosophy: Oh we have too much dmg --> durability patch --> oh we dont have enough pace and one shots --> buff slowly all dmg for champs --> still not enough dmg --> lethality change --> buff & introduce broken items --> oh no adc is getting one shot lets make them assassins now and buff all their items!
I think it's time for League of Legends 2.
Was one shot by a cait yesterday with one single auto and this gets recommended to me today lul. Haven't been purely oneshot in a good while
better get used to it buddy ahaha
Honestly, the few patches before 14.10, adc felt alright. The main issue was the complete lack of defense options. Shieldbow was a joke and now is the whole circus. They really thought bringing bloodthirster back to its problematic self was a good decision. There was a good amount of build variety last patch and now it’s just infinity edge, bloodthirster, and ldr. There is typically only some variety in your zeal item choice which is still a no brainer on most champs. (Thoughts of a hardstuck emerald adc main)
Shieldbow is getting a huge buff ‘even though phreak said adc are durable again’ so surely this buff isnt needed? Or is he full of shit and adcs are durable at all. Build variety aucks would love to see zeal items have more effect on your gameplay
Shieldbow is getting buffed because it's currently the worst item in the game. If you as an adc want a lifeline passive steraks gauge or maw is ALWAYS better.
The joys of riots balance philosophy "always damage, only damage, forever damage. Amen our lord and savior ct"
Also adcs arent even broken, they are doing what everyone else does now just without the mobility and instead have range. But they buffed adcs in the WORST way possible.
We wanted to play the fucking game, not also stop others from playing the game, if i wanted to play fucking dodgeball, i would go do that.
Adc 3 item cores used to be 8100 gold for an infinity edge, phantom dancer and a statikk shiv. Versus today where the most common adc core cost over TEN THOUSAND GOLD, while game length just tanks every patch
I guarantee you that if Riot created League of Legends Classic(like, a separate League instance that is permanently on s4 or something) - many, MANY people would flock to it and never touch the base game lol.
Went from E4 to G4 in two patches as a support main. Rushing warmog as a team player is one of the worst feelings
So true. Back in season 4 and 5 there were roles. An assassin was physically unable to kill a tank or bruiser, let alone one shot them. If you were an assassin and went to fight a tank you would waste 40 seconds- this was before the stupid tank meta but rather at that point tanky champions had their place. Adc's started doing huge damage at literal 4 1/2 or 5 items. So a 2 or even 3 item adc chunking you was never going to happen. It's also clear that Riot doesn't want to introduce durability due to the insane eastern servers who allegedly like fast games and burst. Durability patch was the reason I came back to League and I genuinely enjoyed it. But damage now has become insane again.
Karthus recieved fated ashes which makes his early jungle clear OP so thats why hes suddenly being picked/banned every game in higher elo
I did say that in the vid
The damage creep I believe is due to players wanting higher kill count games and Riot trying to deliver on that. It's also not just item and champion damage creep, but mobility and cc and gold creep as well. Leading to action packed quicker games, which many players prefer to play and watch. New items and champions are supercharged. Riot's job is to create enough chaos/changes so that the meta doesn't get stale is all and when you have to constantly change things it's difficult to stay original or exceptionally creative or even intelligent. Lethality items especially are just straight up imbalanced for so long now and I think are the main culprit along with old stormsurge and now blackfire. ADC's didn't use to have a bunch of free lethality in their scaling builds with an IE. Champions that can make great use of both lethality and crit builds are consequently OP AF. Collector especially is op, it should have zero lethality and they can up the gold you get from its passive to like 50 or even 75. All lethality items should have at least 2 less lethality and probably less. Change collector to a dedicated adc snowball item and give yun tal to the ad assassins and change its crit to ability haste and some of its attack damage to lethality. Make Blackfire cost 300 more gold so only dps mages still want to build it and they can lower ap ratios on blackfire passive further or on lilia/brand/Karthus/Rumble kinda stuff and raise their base damage to compensate them a bit if needed.
for sure the dmg creep is end result but its gold creep etc is massive for example first tower in 14.10 gave 150 gold now its doub led to 300 in 14.11 its just so many of these small changes that have added up over time
I hate this game when bot lane becomes the volatile snowbally lane, it ruins the game.
especially when botlane is strong its just begging jungle and mid to gank and now its 4v2 lane
Playing top lane I was kind of used to getting 2-3 shot by adcs when they're fed, but now almost every game bot lane seems to be a fiesta. Both sides often get loads of kills and you just have to hope your bot laner performs in the teamfights.
Just came to this video after getting one shotted by pike and volibear’s E
The only thing I can say about state of league is that I remember teamfights that lasted easily 15+ seconds. Now it's -10
i litteraly KNOW a team of 10-15 challenger players with azzapp to communicate the changes to the league community would make the game 100x more balanced then it is now
Agree this is one of the most unbalanced patches in yonks. Between adcs ap jglers and all the other random stuff I can think of at least 10 champs that need massive nerfs and the items are just a joke
Weird hot take: The current game teamfights are dogshit, skirmishs have more impact in the game.
The game goes too fast, waves of minions die too fast, coordination matters less.
Damn man , who are you , this cannot be your first time trying this , im very impressed by your only 4 videos , they are easy and enjoyable to watch all the way through , you are doing amazing but again, who are you, there is no way this is your first shot at youtube
Crazy spot, I thought they are fairly simple videos. I had a Runescape channel like 7 years ago but didnt do many videos
Curent state of solo queue - bruisers are locked into a build of 5 items that all cost 3300 or more gold, so basically praying the game lasts 47 minutes (average game time 23 minutes). Tanks are either unstopable machines, thanks to heartsteel, or a weaker super minion thats a bit annoying. Jungle is basically "who can use blackfire torch/profane better" fest. Mid is "lichbane vs galvanized vs profane hydra" galore, adc is "who got collector, infinity, lord dominics" snowball first, while support is basically "what wins? A leona locking an adc down for 7 seconds, or brand pressing R on an adc?" duel. If anyone with a new shiny item goes 5/0 thats basically it, they get drakes, grubbies, plates and snowball into a 9/2 monster that wins 21st minute baron fight, and just all mid push wins the game in 23rd minute. Fun... I love playing against the same items every game. Nothing quite like malignance, blackfire, cryptbloom, collector, opportunity, infinity edge, heartsteel and warmorg every game... imagine if I saw anything else other than champions revolving around these items.
Riot: Introduces broken item.
Players use certain champs that naturally have easier using it.
Riot: Nerfs the champion.
Players still use the champs because it wasnt the champ, it was the item.
Riot: We are so smart guys, we use the 50% winrate internet page to balance the game.
The game is so nice when your favorite types of champs are OP and other types are downtrodden.
their comment on comparisons to the durability patch had to do with adcs getting more xp from the changes.
ah gotcha still doesnt really make there less dmg in the game but I see where they are coming from
@@Rewleague adcs getting more effective HP from levels definitely has an effect on their durability even if slightly
Riot typically nerfs the game towards the way they want the people to play, even they felt they had to buff crit (the way they wanted ADC's to play) in order to make people play crit instead of lethality
You know why Riot doubled down on ADC item damage buffs? Because Assassins can oneshot them without counterplay (dodging skillshots etc). At the close of the last split Phreak and August both said that they know what the would need to do: Make funny dash mobility boosting single target burst champions (a.k.a. Assassins) unplayable as a whole. They then said that that would cost them a huge portion of the playerbase. So they did the other thing. Buff the damage of squishys so the can literally oneshot Assassins with on rotation or few auto attacks as possible. And now think about how tanks were changed (the class that does not care about single target burst). Yeah, making sense now?
1 month later, only thing that has changed a little bit is what champions are best at absuing OP items
My Garen build has changed from regular tank build with a bit damage to full crit or sometimes one or MAX two tanky items, because if you build three or more tanky items you'll be the most useless thing on the rift still getting oneshotted while taking two R cooldowns to kill one enemy.
So im not delusional in the fact that as a top lane main ive been doing less damage than before this patch. Ive been getting shredded by champs that i would normally destroy
Earlier today was looking at some future changes. Been wanting to learn Aatrox, put him on hold since he is kinda hard but gonna start learning him, the thing about nerfing the champs instead of the items kinda remind me of some of the changes. So sunderer sky and eclipse were broken when introduced, okay fair, you get those 2 and you never die, shojin used to fully stack with 1 skill per target, okay okay if you got aoe it was 4 stacks with 1 skill even, then nerfed shojin, nerfed sunderer, nerfed eclipse, Aatrox went lethality, riot went "why you guys dont build bruister again?", and now they are kinda reworking aatrox taking away the healing from his E by making it scale with bonus HP, but bruister aatrox dont do damage so healing is still low and you are just a sand bag at most, but now it have an HP scaling so lethality aatrox heals way less now. It just makes everything more "kill them before they kill you".
yesterday went up agasinst a team OF 5 ADC IN ONE TEAM. can oyu guess how that game went?
Picked rammus and won?
should there be a maximum crit cap like attack speed, because if every adc (caitlyn) just crits 100 percent of the time with IE with her range all she does is one shots from safe distance
one shotting as an adc used to be a very jhin specific thing i feel but now every adc does and it a lot do it better than him and it makes me depressed as a jhin main.
Its way worse, as a Hecarim main, with stuns being more effective your chances of getting to an ADC are slim unless you run clense mercs and EON or your fed and can safely one shot them back. There's no other in between, there's so much damage being thrown out you can't even do what riot wants Hecarim to do (run brusier) , You get shredded and locked down before you can even R , so it pushes players to assume a Vanguard/Assasin kind of role where you have to go one specific build to do any kind of dmg. Also I agree with Karthus being absolutely disgusting for multiple years atp and Riot refuses to do anything to him, mages as a whole were really strong last split but ADC's are js stronger now, with mages trailing js behind.
Genuinely now youve mentioned it I dont think ive seen a hecarim in my last 200+ games so he must be bad. Last time i saw him he was building full damage ‘shock’ like an assassin instead of a bruiser
oh wow, we can't shit on adcs anymore and 100 to 0 them with two buttons with no counterplay, thats really unfair! thats how you sound. adc has been the worst role for as long as i can remember, the moment an adc gets a new build it gets nerfed to the ground (like bruiser zeri)
im curious as to why nobody cared when adc role was clearly too weak, and now that its actually playable and does the same thing that mages/tanks/bruisers/assassins do, its a problem. have some common sense.
@@lilperp first of all, it’s a lot more complicated than you make it sound. If an ADC is getting 100 to 0’d they js didn’t position correctly. As a Hecarim player most cc js completely negates the champ.
You sound even dumber bc I never said I liked mages or assassins either, I’m js saying Hecarim is only playable as an assassin but he’s been nerfed hard for the sake of riot trying to make him go brusier. Going collector IE is a dumb bandaid solution to the bullet wound. There’s a clear difference between being able to get to somebody or reach a goal through playing well and not even getting to hit the goal bc you get one shot or cc’d every time you posture towards it.
I rather be outplayed through someone playing well then them standing and autoing me once and dying from collector. Makes it even worse that Hecarim has 0 identity rn.
@@Rewleague It’s tragic bc even Dante’s has said on stream playing Hecarim feels like shit. There’s js champs that move 80x faster or champs that do 80x more damage. Honestly feels like he needs a mini rework atp bc if you aren’t building shojin Muramana into lethality it feels like your doing no kind of damage
I have been playing League of Legends for 12 years now and i loved this Game. I think It was and still could be one of the best Games ever Made. During These 12 years i have Seen a lot of metas and gameplay Changes. all the good ones and the Bad ones. But a few days ago me and my Friends decided to quit this Game together because we realised that We didnt even enjoy the Game playing solo. We Just Queued Up together to have fun but the fact that there is so much DMG, imbalanced Champs and the ever incresing toxicity over the past years Made this Game unplayable even together. It reached a point where Not even Aram or Arena are fun because of the sate of the Game. We all quit together to Help us stay away from this misery and get over it. Peak League of Legends for me was 2015/2016. After that it slowly went Downhill in my opinion.
More than that, sometimes instead of nerfing items that were abused by certain champions, riot nerfed those CHAMPIONS. And now when some broken items got nerfed/changed riot of course forgot to revert nerfs to champions that were done before. I play GP and in season 12-13 riot forced him to build full crit by adding scalings from a fucking crit chance, then when navoris got changed and granted massive % cooldown reduction and damage amp they nerfed GP's cooldowns by a lot. Now with new patch 14.10 a lot of crit items got changed including navoris, and guess what? None of those nerfs got reverted on GP. His winrate dropped to 46-something percent. Guess we are just building him wrong. Fuck this balance team, they have no idea how their game works.
Sorry, I was writing comment before I got to the part of this video, where "nerf champ, not broken item" were said x)
no problem! thanks for adding the 2ndd comment, ngl I havent seen gp in about 15,000 games because shock he got the riot special. And this is it isn't it he's finally getting buffed again I think but how many months has the champ been crap because of a broken item
To be honest they finally should get out of trauma of season 5 and 2 and NERF DAMAGE. I know they fear dreaded tank meta, when Esport was at its worst (still remember how people cheered for ward kills, because everyone feared to engage in cc fest), but there is reason this role exist you know.
Yeah, could they not balance ADCs to do more dmg to tanks? or make it so seryldas grudge and cryptbloom are good vs tanks but terrible vs squishes? so you have to buy into anti tank stats rather than buying antitank items that are good vs everything?
The player base should definitely have a say in changes and balance patches… like a voting system
We’re just at the whims of the devs who are too fucking stupid to actually know what’s wrong with the game
Subbed, i have played this game since 2010 and what this game has turned into is a mess. Tanks that do a good amount of dmg with no damage items, and the absurd amount of dmg assassins, adc's do to each other lmao. Champions like Garen make me want to smash my monitor.
My support shields literally are a wall of paper and heals are just a suggestion now
Damage as a whole is so messed up. Tanks (incl support) can still destroy any squish in the game. A tank support Blitz can probably 3/4 a squish with normal combo by himself. Playing vs heartsteel every game in ARAM is so fun. Don't even think about the state of some bruisers. They can build random AD items and still blow half the team up then walk away. The intent for mages is to 'scale' but they've kept pushing early power spikes for mages and now we have blackfire torch. There's Brand seeing successful play in every role. Players love being punished for just being near the wave and losing 1/4 of their health. All new champs have percentage health damage somewhere in the kit. They nerfed and changed Seraphine to push her back to support then immediately buffed her again to see some more APC play. Remember when Mr. Head of Balance Phreak told ADC's they need to build defensive items, Varus played realized they had percent health on everything so they built full support, then Phreak nerfed it all? Smile.
90% of the people on the balance team change the game to justify their paycheck. there’s absolutely no reason that the game needs to be entirely renovated every 2 weeks. they need (excluding hotfixes- which should be scarce) like 4 patches max per year.
Here is an idea for a fix:
Tanks: Can't kill anything, but can't be killed easily.
Juggernaughts: Less tanky than a tank, can kill things, but take a while.
Mages and Assassins: Can burst down a single target, but have long CDs.
ADCs: Have DPS, but can't one shot anyone.
Utility Supports: lots of CC.
Work items around these specifications. I will be honest, it is not fun to play as a tank when I get killed just as squishie and it is not fun that I can't kill a tank, but the tank can kill me in two seconds.
I like obivously cant be 100% rigid but the game needs to go back to clear roles
@@Rewleague Indeed. I'm tired to see the tank is also their DPS, also their assassin, and on top of that they are the utility support, with self healing/shields.
Every season the adc players cry until they are the most op thing in the game and then they get nerfed, and the cycle continues on and on. & this is the case with this community since I started playing back in 2012
honestly hashinshins rants from years ago hold true to this day. Although i do think adcs have been weak purely because of support too strong
6:45 I've been saying this since Ardent meta back in s8, bro. They broke Ardent, they killed every enchanter, then killed Ardent and left every enchanter as a useless waste of pixels for TWO YEARS. And they kept doing the same shit for some unexplainable reason
the balance team doesnt even know what role is supposed to do what and what they should be capable of so let me help (top lane is the carry and does most engages in teamfights, jungle takes the important objective to help the team grow and also ganks to help the team farm, mid lane does most burst and cc probably, adc does most poke and uses range advantage, support supports easy as that)
adcs weak, we call for them to buff adcs, they overbuff adcs to then be like well we told u so, see our community doesntk now shit about the game. this balance team needs to go, riot phreak needs to go,
just had a game where i autoed a kindred as ulted riven with sundered proc and almost oneshot her, and procedded to be melted alive by a hwei from half the map away
sounds like the average season 14 game
Such a cool new channel to watch everytime the video comes
I don't have words :D
i OTP olaf and the best way to play him is by targeting squishies. but now i just get one shot long before i get close. and im losing 1v1s to jinx despite having equal items. i don’t remember a time where an ADC could 1v1 olaf and i didn’t make a mechanical mistake. they made ADCs WAY too strong. i don’t even wanna play anymore cause top lane can’t 1v9 anymore unless your laner is genuinely brain dead and dies to you 10 times. too often do i go 2/0 or 3/0 and i’m just getting god smacked by an ADC with two items. IE and lord doms need to be hard nerfed.
Went from Damage per Second
to Bursts per Second.
And thats... the problem of balancing a game around the casuals.
Casuals dont Care about the game integrity or if its balanced or fair. They just want a shit fiesta for 1-2 games and then leave.
When league was balanced around professional play and high elo the game was in a much healthier state.
They gutted all skill expression to make the game easier for the scrubs and what also makes the game easier? making everyone do a shit ton of damage, so you getting out spaced doesnt matter that much because a single miss click can mean you one shot the player that is much better than you.
99% of the game is casual you cant balance ADC for example around pro play its a completely different game. Although pro and normal elo are both worse off for it
@@Rewleague 99% is casual, but casuals dont know how to play the game.
You cant balance shit around people that doesnt even know what they are doing and dont even care.
If youre a fucking casual you should have no power on nerfs on a character just because youre incapable of dodging their abilities.
balancing around high elo is much healthier because people do know what things are trully strong or just a skill issue.
but 99% of the game arent so you cant. Honestly masters+ should just be on a seperate patch is the only way
But the game is balanced around proplay. What the fuck are you smoking? If the game would be balanced around casual gameplay you wouldn't be able to one shot everything. Lul.
funny how you cite a clip from season 10 as the glory days of adc (a season where IE had the same exact stats it does currently) but imo the issue is mostly caitlyn because thats adc i see doing these ridiculous one shots and shes being nerfed in 14.11 along with ie so its not a month long to see changes like you said in the video its just a couple weeks and obviously when a big midscope like this comes out there will be a few outliers and imo riot is doing a good job tackling them quickly. but i do agree jinx should have been hotfixed MONTHS ago its really crazy
caitlyn isnt even that strong. people dont play how to play around her range at low ranks, and its also really frustrating for many champs at higher elos. then she snowballs and its like OH ADC ONESHOTS ME OMEGALUL (any other ad does that when ahead at any patch really)
You cope is crazy to me, how you can defend and adc oneshotting is unreal. Like i say if every champ had veigar ult and one shot is that a low elo skill issue or bad game design. Whats wrong with having a snowball adc kill in 3 autos and the enemy adc whos behind taking 5
But so much else is different to ie and in that ashe clip look At aphelios ult it does 0 dmg compared to now. Yeah saw the cait ‘adjustments’ after i recorded they are more nerfs than adjustments. Its more than this patch though the midscope really isnt that big but the point is the midscope literally just adds more dmg
To adc and mages even ludens is stronger and akshan my main is at 54% where is his nerf
@@RewleagueIm not defending adc one shotting? im saying one or two adcs are the outliers and they should be adjusted not the whole role r*ped because caitlyn has a 120% scaling on her headshot. and in the aphelios clip his ult does nearly no dmg because look at his build dude he has runaans and is building into dd, i agree now that collector ldr and yuntal exist there is a lot more ways to do dmg for ability focused burst adcs and that is the problem. and thats why crit dmg is being adjusted as a result. im not defending it im just stating dont act like its the entire class thats one shotting with burst when its clearly just a few outliers that are abusing it
is that not the point of dmg creep though? dd was viable on aphelios he was doing less dmg and taking more damage. The items now are pure dmg even fucking Aatrox doesnt build deaths dance thats mindblowing to me. For sure I agree cait is an outlier and sorry I thought the comment below was also you adding on to the first comment about oneshots.
Bro these idiots, not long ago, pushed that durability patch cuz there was waaay too much dmg in the game, and they said that was the right call, and now it's fucking worse than before, but now it's balanced? what?
Everyone quick to beat down on ADC's as if the last 2 years hasn't been a meme of adc's being the worst role and in the last year 3-4 man dives botlane become a thing. There is no play safe under tower lol As a support main, it's about time ADC's at least got to feel useful pre-3-4 completed items.
pretty much this adc has been shit to play for years to the point where the best bot laners to play were all mages
adc vs assassin -> dead "well its an assassin thats their role fantasy"
Adc vs Tanks -> dead or unable to kill "well tanks are supposed to mitigate damage of course the adc shouldn't be crushing them"
adc vs mages -> dead "well mages do more burst of course they can kill a squishy adc with only 1 set of spells"
adc vs fighters -> dead "stay away from them, you have to pay attention to their high mobility and gap closers or you shouldnt be able to fight them"
ADC was the ONLY role that completely depended on your team and protect you to do their job but when everyone else can do the damage themselves why should they? Obviously pro play is a different world to solo q. Checking winrates on the patch only 1 bot lane marksman is in the top 10 of winrates for emerald+(2 if you count mid akshan) Adcs finally being able to punish assassin brain players in other roles that just saw food isnt the problem. Its the games global damage... Now I don't want tank meta back but I'm also sick of everyone 100 to 0'ing anyone they get to combo. Everyone is just reinforced to buy full damage. its insane to me "bruiser" champs like aatrox build full damage like an assassin when they are exactly the type of champ that fits the role of lots of hybrid items thematically .
@@path9760 why is aatrox the champ that fits the role of hybrid? all his spells scale with AD and dmg? the more dmg he does the more he heals, why should he ever not go fulld dmg? if he goes hybrid items he still gets oneshot?
@@peterbs5555 Thats the whole point.. he SHOULND'T get oneshot when itemizing correctly but the meta rn just demands a full ad build
@@path9760so fucking true, every role is balanced towards the peak fantasy of that role, except for adcs which are balanced to be the punching bag that you get to express that fantasy towards. its disgusting and now that adcs get to have some fun too everyone starts crying
this is straight up nonsense. kraken item spike when timed well was just insanely strong with lethal tempo on many adcs. before it was lethality for quite a while
From someone who started to play this game in season 2 and saw the evolution of this game season after season, if you hope in a balanced and skill based experience in LOL today, you better leave this game and move to something else.
The power creeping in this game is something thats is going on the last 5-6 years, its getting worse every season.
Riot or Tencent idk, wants game to be fast paced and unskilled as possible to keep everyone on 50% WR limbo, to spend more time in the game and get addicted so you can spend more money.
The community is really gaslighted and lost his mind, its just abuse broken X item X champ every patch to climb.
There is something wrong when in a MOBA the TTK is faster than FPS games, doesnt make any sense.
the gaslighting is real! the amount of people that think the TTK is fine is crazy, i;ve played since s8/9 but I guess its jsut blind faith it will be balanced
Good comment.
But can you explain what TTK is?
Also this split/patch in particular, people are so toxic EVERY SINGLE GAME it's unreal. I've never EVER seen anything like this... Last split was much more chill. Now almost every start of lobby people are already throwing insults at each others or threatening to run it down (especially Junglers), at this point you're lucky if you're in the team which has less toxicity. I can't count how many games I could win that we lost because people mental boomed. Crazy.
that sub plug... shut up and take my sub
ahahah appreciate it
Can we just also look at how they completely gutted Ezreal and zeri itemization. LDR max HP passuve legit made zeri, but it also kept mundo, chogath, sion in check but now they dont even build armor cause they just out HP the damage of ADCs.
Nah, I still think tank dealing so much damage is worse
There is no tanks in league they are just brusiers/skirmishers in disguise
Cuzz damage is too high on other role and tank cant tank so to give them a boost and not turn the tank role into zero play they turn them into assasin
@@namelesssturdy4676fr can’t even compare assassins to tank
Yesterday I played a game into poppy and without taking minion agro I would get press the attack off and she would auto me once from my auto distance and walk away having won the trade until she would chunk me out of lane.
sounds about right
Its so true. I actually didn't read any patch. But its is sooooooo true how it feels. I play league from 2009 and this already happened, but now its ADC WHO ONESHOT WTF.
Im an adc enjoyer but what the fuck is the current damage? Why am I able to crit like back in season 2
I've been playing every role for years now and the damage creep since the introduction of Thunderlord's decree way back when has been insane. Every role does too much damage and before balancing anything else they should honestly just nerf all damage in the game by at least 30%. Losing more than 200hp level 1 from one spell an aa and a keystone is criminal
If they balance items then ability is op, if they balance ability then champion is op, if they balance winrate then enemy is op
back when that ashe clip happened an assassin or mage would have to play like perfectly to one shot the ashe and it would take like 4 seconds, but nowadays an ahri can dash on u miss her entire combo and kill you with w and lich bane auto attacks in like 1 second. in order for adc to be playable they need to be able to punish that which means now you need to kill in less than that time. if they just made everything not completely one shot like that even when u miss everything adc would have be fine. none of the characters in that clip are really damaging the ashe that much also meanwhile in current league if that trundle auto q autos u ur probably 1/3 hp and die to a singular varus q.
yeah she aint a trundle Q and aphelios ult she is getting chunked in current league
Adc has felt fun but I don't play everyday
In the T1 clips shown, T1 is 20/5/7 at 22 mins. That is fanboy grief levels of int from enemy team. He has 4 items and tier 2 boots at 22 mins which is insane. If anyone inted any other role except certain supps that much, theyd be equally as disgusting. Ive played irelia or garen games that fed and naturally, I shat on everyone.
I also feel like before, any other role could just roam bot for a comeback if they threw their lane and now its more risky because ADCs are more lethal earlier.
Oh he's fed that game but luckily theres millions of games of league not just this one. The point was more and more damage keeps getting added to league and your second point is liteally completly wrong. Bot is a stroger lane now later and more important to get ahead so jungle and mid will gank bot more than before
damage creep is a problem to the point a class that is supposed to do sustained damage is no longer good at its role. Solution? give them burst damage. thanks riot. i like to think the correct solution was to nerf all damage or make things tankier but what do I know.
Started playing with my brother and was dying to a lucian in 0.2 seconds on repeat
"Just build defensive"
Riot
also riot ' nerfs every defensive' xd
i think the main problem of riot's ballence team is not giving players time to develop new strategies or ounterplay, throught a point it snowballed wher players can't develop new playstyles, strategies or counterplay before riot buffs that play to a pont when you see it's already out of controll. (first time I noticed it was on atrox release)
They've admitted themselves players are super super slow to change builds patch to patch. TBH league is fairly stale I think its better off a massive changes every 6 months then like you say give people more time to adapt rather than every 2 weeks
@@Rewleague 100% true, the game balance is so sensitive, 2AD can literaly breake or trash a lot of characters.
broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I had to remove a comment of a toxic guy literally telling me 2ad is a placebo buff.... caitlin getting 2ad doesnt do anything apparently ahahahahah
I started banning zyra she presses q and I cannot approach her even when im 5/0 and she is behind... If i try she just ults and kills me with her slow. Either I am slowed forever by one champion or one-shot by the other.