Dr Syl FINALLY reacts to: Su!cide - REN | Psychiatric Perspective
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Join Dr. Syl, a junior doctor training to become a psychiatrist, as he delves into Ren's emotionally charged song "Suicide." In this reaction video, Dr. Syl offers insightful commentary on the lyrics and themes of the song, touching on topics such as chronic suicidal ideation, narcissism, depersonalization, and the complex nature of mental illness. With empathy and expertise, Dr. Syl provides valuable perspectives on suicide prevention, the importance of seeking help, and the significance of human connection in overcoming mental health challenges.
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** The information in this video is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images, and information, contained in this video is for general information purposes only and does not replace a consultation with your own doctor/health professional. If anything in this video was distressing please consider calling LifeLine 131114 **
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
Back in the day I had a friend who called me on the land line while she was committing suicide, she did not live close by but I managed to get a neighbour to call the ambulance whilst I kept talking to her on the phone. I heard the paramedics get into her house, she was already unconscious by then and they rushed her to the hospital. Long story short we are still friends 30 years later.
I am so glad your friend made it. You're a great friend. ❤
@@Chronically_Kimberlynot just a great friend. A hero
You are blessed... and so is she. I lost a friend because I called the police to save her. She was so angry at me that she refused to speak to me again.... I do not regret my choice. She survived. I hear she has children now and is an amazing mother. No regrets.
Oh boy, your comment made me cry. Seriously! So glad you and your friend got to experience 30 years of friendship after such dark times! All the love!
@@griffonwriter better to lose a friendship than to lose a life ❤
I'm voting for Dr. Syl to interview REN 💚
Fate has a way of making things happen!
I'm so sick of hearing just about Ren.
@@Sheila-sv1ue You're in control of what you watch; you can make different choices.
At 19 years old my best friend ended his life with an overdose of vodka and sleeping tablets, and died in my arms. I didn't know what to do, and I didnt know how to deal with the aftermath. Two years later I qualified as a first aider, graduating to trauma response and eventually to the Health and Safety officer of the company i worked for. His gift to me was saving lives years and years later.
Wales (where ren was born and spent his youth) has a really high suicide rate for young men. My son moved there and quite a few of his friends have topped themselves - he cut down one of his best mates, he wasn't completely gone. Then the lads mum kind of laid all her pain on my son - like he was her son that lived - and had him stay with her at the hospital when they turned the guys life support off. It has left my son with severe depression, (which is also a familial trait) but he still holds his sh*t together pretty well, considering. I get that she was in pain but it was too much to lay on a 20 year old!
Ren's guilt of being 5 minutes late is because he was literally 5 minutes too late. He was the closest to the bridge when a friend called and said Joe was on the bridge. Ren ran... When he got there Joe was gone. He must re-live that run.. if he had (or hadn't) stopped to put shoes on, if he had crossed the street sooner... if he didn't slow down at the light... whatever. It would be impossible not to 2nd guess everything. It had him re-thinking earlier conversations and, as always, finding clues. The truly sad part is apparently a week or two earlier Joe tried to check himself into a facility for help. Apparently he was turned away because he didn't have an appointment. There is the thought that if you are seeking treatment you aren't serious. In this case that was wrong.
😢❤🎉
The “narcissistic, can’t keep a secret “ line hits me hard. I’ve been hospitalized for major depressive episode for self-reporting ideations and a plan to end my life. I had feelings that I shouldn’t have said anything because now all this attention was on me. It felt narcissistic to me to ask for help when others were dealing with their problems without speaking up. I still feel like I should have kept that secret even though I recognize that I needed help.
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That part about regretting asking for help always reminds me of White Ghost by Badflower. It’s like dancing on the edge of a black hole. Sometimes you trip and the gravity drags you into a darkness so empty, hungry, and complete that you don’t know how to find a light. Every time you drag yourself out you are so ripped and aching like raw new skin and it changes you
You definitely aren't alone in feeling like that, so many do. I both work in the health system and have been an unheard, unbelieved patient in that same system and the hardest lesson to learn is while exaggerating your symptoms can be bad (as it denies care to people who may be in a more critical state right now) under selling your symptoms means _you_ are now the person not getting the level of care you need and deserve. Also hard but important to remember, while sometimes the system is busy that definitely doesn't mean you don't 100% DESERVE that care, that you are taking it away from someone else or that you don't matter. So long as you have spoken your truth, your symptoms, and your situation then you are getting the care those say you need not taking it away from others.
Heard in a 12step meeting once: "We are only as sick as our secrets."
I’m so glad you fought those feelings & spoke up, wishing you lots of goodness ❤
Ren has spoken about how the impact of Joe's decision affected hìmself and those around him. It was that experience that kept Ren from taking his own life in his darkest years. Wishing his desease would kill him, instead.
So in one way Joe kept Ren alive long enough to find life again.
When Ren dropped this song he first let everyone know that he would be Live online waiting for us. He posted help line and crisis center info.
In Ren style he stayed with us online I believe, at least 2hrs, until he assured himself we were well, and we had started to wander way, back into our daily lives.
The ending was a last minute addition. It poured out of him and he recorded it as it did. No revisions, no corrections, no second guessing. Consideringthe first paet had already gone to production for the AI video, he made a quick call and asked if the new ending could be added. His AI guy, yes and Ren quickly sent it to him. Ren had thought he had already resolved and gotten over Joe's death. This proved he had not. That still bottled up was a spot that needed the light.
Soon after the song "For Joe" was born.
At Joe's "funeral" was the last time Ren seen Callum, another dear close friend, who sadly 6mos later died in a swimming related accident.
Once the dark spot for Joe began healing Ren found himself creating the song MacKay which was Callum's last name. Or for the UK would it be called his "sir name" or "family name"? (Guess it doesnt matter really) In USA it is "Last name"
That song has now, in 2024, been released.
More emotional healing for Ren.
Surname in the commonwealth countries. Thanks for this info - Australia
this is from Ren community page Today I want to write something beautiful and eloquent but I’ve been staring at my computer screen for the past 10 minutes blankly. So I’ll just write.
Today, the 1st of June is my friend Joe’s birthday.
I first met Joe when I was 8 years old, my friend Josh said I had to meet this guy, so we both walked over to his, it took about 10 minutes from my house. I was greeted by this kid covered head to toe in freckles, he grinned at us, climbed onto the back of his sofa and screamed “Swanton Bomb!” then front flipped off the top and landed right onto his back on a stone floor. He lay still for a moment, twitched a few times, then got up, grinned at us, brushed himself off, and did it again.
This was Joe. He’d do anything to make people laugh. He ended up becoming one of my best friends. He was there when we stole our first cigarettes out of his mums pack, way too young. He was there when I had my first kiss, with a girl twice my size on the back of the 42 bus. He was there when I first got so drunk I threw up in the woods after drinking as much white lightning Cider as we could. I was there when he did his first backflip on skates, and saw him do a 720 off of the pier cave, that moment became legendary.
Joe was the funny one in our friend group, he’d make us laugh till it hurt. No one had a bad word to say about him. It was impossible not to like him. Usually we put celebrities, athletes and actors on pedestals, turn them into role models and admire them from a far. The person I admired was Joe.
Him and Sagar knew every word to the songs id write, we’d get drunk at parties and they’d be singing along as loud as they could. It gave me a lot of confidence back then.
On Christmas Eve 2010 I was sitting in a pub with Joe, he’d been feeling low after a couple of consecutive break ups. He tried to check himself into a mental health outpatient facility a few weeks earlier but they turned him away because he didn’t have an appointment. He turned to me and said that sometimes he wished he could just walk into the sea and keep walking. He said it in a kind of half joking throw away comment type of way, then took a sip of his drink, walked over to the juke box and put Dig by Incubus on. If I knew that was the last time I’d see Joe id have hugged him, told him how much I loved him, how much I looked up to him, how much we all loved him, and I wouldn’t have left that pub. I didn’t know that, so I finished my drink, said happy Christmas and left.
Two nights after Christmas I got woken up by a phone call at 3am, it was my friend Ella. She told me Joe was on the Menai Bridge, a large suspension bridge connecting the main land to the isle of Anglesey where we lived. He’d been on the phone to her in tears saying goodbye. He told her to tell everyone he loved them. I pulled on my clothes as fast as I could and started running toward the bridge. It was up a hill. I lived about a ten minute walk away, I could run it in five. As I ran I started dialling then redialing his number. The line was busy, which was a good sign, it meant he was still on the phone to someone. As I got about halfway, the busy tone changed. It told me the line was out of service. I got a sinking feeling and picked up my speed. I arrived to the bridge minutes after I left my house. It was deafeningly quiet. I was the first person to arrive. I got there probably about 2 minutes too late.
Joe’s body was never found.
Initially we refused to believe he was gone. The coastguard came out that night, with boats, and helicopters. Me and my friends spent the next 10 days putting up missing posters everywhere we could, walking up and down beaches with flashlights, getting about 3 hours sleep a night. When you’re walking up and down a beach with a torch when its dark everything looks like a body. We still haven’t found Joe.
As his birthday came around, I wrote a song, freckled angels, a song I dedicated to Joe which I sang in front of his friends and family. A charity football match was put on for him, raising money for the RNLI where I won two bottles of wine in a raffle, I drank them both as quickly as I could, naturally, turned to my friend and probably slurred something along the lines of “This is the last time I ever drink” That was 12 years ago, I haven’t touched a drop of alcohol since.
My first ever album I named Freckled Angels in tribute of one of the best people I ever knew.
Skip forward some years. I’d been sitting on this song I wrote a few years ago. It always felt a little incomplete. It was going to be my next release, but I was dreading it because of this feeling of incompletion. I decided, very last minute, to do something about it. I sat by my piano, and the rest of the song fell out of me. I hadn’t thought about Joe in a little while, and the song initially wasn’t going to be about him, but the words all fell out of me. I wrote and recorded a whole 2 minutes extra, recording each part as I wrote it. Tears spewing out of my eyes pretty much the whole time, and decided not to do my usual thing of perfecting each line, I just recorded every line as it came. This will be my next release
Thankyou for sharing what Ren wrote ❤
please give credit to ren ???. 😮
@@Foxsuper1 The post literally starts with "From Ren's community page", WTH are you on about?
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You got it exactly. The first part was about Ren's ideation, hence the upbeat nature of the song. For him it would've been such a release from his suffering (he had undiagnosed Lyme's Disease for nearly 10 years). He had actually finished the song with just that part but felt it was incomplete. But after going on an interview with Knox Hill (another reactor) and he spoke about Joe (the best friend he lost) for the first time in a long while. When they'd finished, he started writing and recording the last part very shortly after. He said the words just poured out of him and the crying was real as he had a flood of emotions after remembering that night after so long. He'd write a couple of lines, record, write again and record hence why it sounds so raw. It was important ro add this ending bc it gives the listener an idea of the devastation they might leave behind. Joe's death affected Ren so much, that he swore he could never do that to anyone in his life which in reality, is what has saved him. And i believe he was trying to help others who could relate to the first part, understand as well.
I went to a mental hospital suicidal and needing help after multiple traumas that were happening in unison. They had to sedate me.
They put me in this huge room for 24 hours that had recliners and a few tables. I later learned that they had us all under surveillance to judge our behavior.
The next day the psychiatrist came in and sat me at the table. I told him I was suicidal and needed to be admitted.
He said I wasn’t depressed enough. Why you say? Because I thanked the nurse who gave me my meds. I was in shock. I told him I don’t feel safe. He said tough and sent me home where part of the trauma was occurring.
I also had BPD, quiet type which was diagnosed a few years later. I no longer meet the criteria, but I still have fear of abandonment and (greatly improved) emotional regulation.
That doctor sent home a suicidal person because of some crackpot observation.
I had moved to Portland OR, and called my prior therapist of eight years in Illinois. I had no one to turn to. I just needed her to tell me where to get help. She ghosted me.
I tried to OD later, but thankfully failed. Every inpatient hospital or mental facility I’ve been to treated the patients like they were circus freaks, and there was never any help. Just harm. I will never go to one again.
If it weren’t for one VA therapist, Leah, who diagnosed me and kept me grounded I would have had no hope. She had to move out of state, and I miss her.
Mental health is not accepted by society. I’ve seen it. We are still considered ‘less than’ and are treated like we aren’t human. It only adds to the despair.
"To look down and see tranquility" oof, that hit so hard!! My little brother suicided many years ago and I remember feeling anger that I now couldn't do this (I had made previous attempts) as our parents couldn't lose 2 kids to suicide. But that line, wow, I feel that.
The worst comment I got from someone was "You're a psychologist, why didn't you do something?" from someone who had no clue and had no empathy. Im going to look up more of his music. Fantastic video, thankyou.
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I am so sorry someone said that to you! That is absolutely horrific! It is hard enough with the guilt you already feel without someone making that sort of comment! You didn't deserve that! ❤
Minor warning when it comes to Ren's music he can take you to dark places that sometimes you can't be prepared to go to though he does also have some very uplifting tracks as well. Ren also used to busk in a ban on the streets of Brighton in a band called The Big Push and they are on here also he is a versatile artist.
I don't know you but am glad that you continued to make the personal choice to Stay. Life asks a lot and it is powerful that you have found anything about it to embrace that keeps you in hope.
My sincere condolences to you and yours for what you've navigated, and likely always will. It is a well of emotions like no other for those who live it and in the aftermath.
Truly sending love to you.
I'm a crisis therapist. I had 2 people I care about in the last 6 months that have passed by their own hand. I struggle with that, I have doubts about my capabilities in my job. My Supervisor told me,"This is why we don't counsel our loved ones." Your ability to help others isn't defined by the ones you can't. ❤
@@bettylocks2.0 Thankyou so much. 20 years later and hearing them say that still feels like I've been gut punched.
In January 2016, I lost my son. He was 16. I had no clue about what he had been struggling. I was that dumb mom. I will not be able to (and do not want to) shake off my guilt on my son's passing. But for the past eight years, I have slowly learned what suicide is: Like you said, how suck it is. I cried so hard over it, especially the last part of this song and your comment. I wish I could have shared this video with my son when he was here, with me. Thank you.
For REN, this was truly his reality. Ren had misdiagnosed Lyme disease for 7 years by conventional doctors who deemed him mentally ill, but when patients are experiencing neurological symptoms, they very often become misdiagnosed. Lyme disease can present itself as many neurological conditions including Acute Transverse Myelitis[3], Ptosis[4], Seizures, and Chronic Fatigue[1] and these symptoms can be often misdiagnosed or deemed psychosomatic.
It's pass the parcel between neurology and psychiatry for a lot of us, confusing.
@dionysusapollo It really is.. If you're in victoria and get lyme disease, most doctors do not believe your symptoms. They often tell you that you're making it up. It's all in your head. And get up and walk, your depressed! 😢
My daughter's friend (when 17yo) became sick, then semi paralyzed and they ended up putting her in a psychiatric ward and giving her terribly invasive drugs.😢
After she was released, she "google doctored" her symptoms& it came up with lyme disease.🤔🗝
She insisted on a blood test and she was correct.
3 years of gaslighting by Professionals and a self diagnosis later, she was able to start her recovery process.. She felt suicidal during this time.😢 Sometimes a diagnosis can be half the healing..
Brilliant analysis on mental health and suicide.. My brother took his own life and this one can always be a little confronting😢
In an odd way i feel you are able to give remote therapy to people thru your videos. For example, my brother in law died by suicide 1 yr ago (successful pediatrtician) and I have recurrent thoughts of... "if only I could have gotten there sooner or done something different". In your video when you said it is not about the ..."Getting there 5 minutes sooner, it started long long before this". I realize this is so true. It is the sequence of events over the prior 40 yrs that led to that final moment. Thus.. thank you for giving me a bit of peace.
It was 5 minutes for Ren because he had a broken leg and he got the call late
That end is so emotionally devastating to those of us who have lost. Every time someone talks negatively about someone who has left I tell them to stop and imagine how dark, alone, hopeless, and painful the living must have felt up to the point where they had nothing left to fight. I will miss my friend so much but I won’t ever let anyone speak bad on her because no matter how much empathy you have you will never know exactly what the pain feels like for them. We are individuals so deeply unique.
Another fantastic song is “White Ghost “ - Badflower
Thank you for that. Everyone thinks it’s the cowardly way to go but it takes a lot of courage. You are in such a deep hole all you can think about is everyone will be better off without you.
He actually says…”useless my Mother, can’t keep down my supper”
When he was so ill he couldn’t keep food down, probably living with his Mother at this time. Took me a while to work those lyrics out.
Great reaction.
Same, took me a while to realise he was saying to his mother “it’s useless” I can’t keep it down rather than my mum is useless.
Ren's latest Mackay shows another side to his stunning depth of talent and definitely worth exploring. It is about another friend of Ren's Callum Mackay who passed away not long after Joe. The fact that Ren was able to respond to two devastating events in his younger life in such different but powerful ways just floored me.
Thank you for making this video. I have been watching your videos for so long, never commented. I am disabled with MANY physical ailments, brittle bones, epilepsy, scoliosis, and also mental health issues. I've thought of and attempted su*icide when I was 11 & 18. I'm 34 now and so glad to be here. These thoughts are real but there is help and hope out there for us all. Thank you for this.
I may not know you personally but can I just say I am very glad you are still here! ❤❤
@@bettylocks2.0 Thank you so much, truly!
I'm glad you're still here!
It was my birthday the other day and 10 years ago I didn't think I'd make it this far. It does get better and I'm much better now. So yay for us still going at it despite it all!
@@evasdottr Congratulations for being here today, honestly. People are good out there, things can get better and there's many things to find that can make us smile. Sometimes...it seems impossible and it can take a long time to find just one thing but once you do, it's incredible. I live life one thing at a time. With my disability, I was told I wouldn't live past teenage years. Yet, I have no signs of slowing down and I'm thankful for that!
@@ssmithstudioswhat a lovely and inspiring replay. Thank you ❤
I am so grateful to Ren for being willing to authentically reveal himself in his pain.
I'd also like to see you interview ren about this song, I hope he sees it. Thank you for more Ren appreciation! ✨
You ought to do Ren's collaborations with Chinchilla - 1. Chalk Outlines and 2. How to be me
No need to apologize at all for talking. There is always someone needing to hear good informational advice and guidance. If people complain that’s on them…I appreciate your work and care to share so freely.
Thank you so much, Dr. Syl, for opening up a compassionate and frank dialogue about this in this space. You're doing great work.
Doesn't matter how many time I hear this, the last verse always makes me cry! I know very few people not affected by suic1de in some way, including myself both losing people and being in that dark place too, and the hurt in those words is so raw! ❤❤
I wish preventative services were a reality, Im in regional South Australia, and there isn’t the help I need… I think about unaliving every day, I ask for help from everywhere but medically, unless I am in hospital or after an attempt, I’m not sick enough. I don’t want to feel it and do everything I’m told to help myself. But sadly it’s not here, I’m just given crisis helpline numbers instead.
Thanks for showing your emotions in this Dr Syl, it makes me hopeful that professionals can care ❤
Unfortunately we have governments that don't prioritise our health, despite all the grand standing saying otherwise. Our medical system is in free fall and no one is doing anything about it. Being that rural South Australia has some of the most remote communities on the planet, this is an extraordinarily difficult situation.
I don't know your circumstances or financial situation but I do hope that you can make it to Adelaide and get to a major hospital where they are set up to help. Please don't give up. Don't ask for help, demand it. You are worth it. Good luck.
Thanks. For what it's worth, I, for one, would love to hear you interview Ren.
16:18 maybe it’s just a toxic thought but I don’t understand how if I showed up sooner it would have resulted in my friend still being alive; but because I didn’t he died. You’re telling me it’s not my fault that I could have entirely prevented his death if I didn’t show up even 2 minutes sooner?
Just the fact that he had to change the way he wrote the word so it didn’t get blocked by the algorithms. He has stated that it’s kind of crazy that they give more power to the word the action behind the word he’s just a gift to the world. He really doesn’t make a bad song. Just another amazing powerful track. The live version for Joe jaw dropping. I think I’ve seen it about 20 times and I’ve yet to make it through it without crying. Unfortunately, I’ve had more experience with this topic then I would wish on my enemy. But sometimes life deals you these hands. Thanks Ren for shedding light on topic that nobody will talk about. Even UA-cam doesn’t want to talk about it. I don’t know if you have seen him talk about this or not if so, sorry to be redundant, but it’s just crazy to me. The fact that in the beginning of the second year of his illness, he told his mother if there were no answers by the end of the year, he wouldn’t be around for year three. Imagine having to tell your parents this and mean it? Imagine being a parent and hearing your child tell you this at 20 years of age or any age really?! in the fact that it took his best friend, jumping off a bridge to make him change his mind that he could not put his mother through the same thing that Joe put his mother through really shows you the character that he possesses. There was some solace in the fact that he thought the disease would take him relatively soon anyway, he would just wait it out in order tonight destroy his mother, but his timeline was off on how long it would be for it to take him out or to get answers Another eight years until he got some answers and a glamour of hope and 15 years later he’s still battling it. They were all fortunate that he approaching the light at the end of the tunnel, coming out the other side. They say out of everything bad something good happens, and unfortunately, in this case it took his best friend, taking his life for us as a collective society to reap the benefits of REN’s music. So although he often blames himself for not getting there in time to save his best friend, the amount of people that he has provided hope for since then isn’t the tens of thousands if not more it’s amazing how that happened. And I believe he will top the American billboard charts within the next couple of years and his message of Hope will be spread too millions of others.. Thank you Ren.
Suicide is a mindset and for that person to succumb to their deepest, darkest, and most frustrating thoughts, to give up.
They go quietly, by choice. All we can do is be their cheerleader, supporter, their advocate. But when they have their mindset made; that is it. They will not call you brother, Ren. May your dear friend RIP ❤️
A close family member has almost reached that point and it’s terrifying for the family. It’s difficult to be near when the family member doesn’t want therapy or treatment. Our hands are tied but we regularly check in and make sure that person knows we are all here 24/7. I’m retired and scared to travel because I would never forgive myself if something happened when I was vacationing.
I felt suicidal a few years ago, so I went to A&E and was told by DR nothing she could do, told me to go see mental health clinic and then she left. She did not ask how I got to hospital nor did I have a friend with me. So I drove myself to the clinic, alone. They told me because I did not have a diagnosed psychiatric illness they could not help me. So I think you can guess what happened next, but as I am obviously still here I was found.
I'm so sorry you didn't get the help you needed.
I am so sorry you were strong enough to seek help but those in a position to help you chose not to. Sending you a virtual hug. 🙏🏼
@@krlady4703 Thank you
I wish u were my psychologist……..anniversary 2 friends died by suicide, I walk the line & this video gave me hope there are good people like you who care & don’t hold stigma with personality disorders, many many thanks for the hope!💕UK
you don't talk too much, at all. you are so thoughtful and kind.
There is a lot I wanna say but for now; thanks for doing the important work you do and thanks for educating and spreading awareness about mental illness. The world needs more ppl like you.
Thank you for being a channel member and supporting the channel 🧡♥️❤️
@@DrSyl😊
I had so many attempts and had serious suicidal idolisation. Im 6 years from my last attempt and have worked so hard on my mental health. Im am now training to become a mental health nurse. Ren is amazing! Love your vids dr syl. I have worked hard to build myself up and sadly lost family to suicide 2 years ago after that I knew I had to go into mental health. There is always a better way!
After I had my daughter I developed severe PND and for the first time in my life experienced mental decline. Spent a few months inpatient which helped tremendously. 4 years on my mental health has never fully recovered. I remember talking with my therapist, my daughter was around 10 months old at the time, I wanted to end my life and I told her my daughter would be fine because she’s too young to know and will have great family support. Her reply knocked me back into reality. She told me she has a patient who essentially is my daughter in that scenario. That my daughter wouldn’t be “fine” and she’s seen first hand how a suicide of a parent affects their children no matter how young/old they were at the time. From then on I vowed to keep fighting and now I’m in a better place but it causes me so much pain to think I even considered leaving my daughter that way. Our relationship is so special, she’s literally my best friend and she’s my reason to keep going. I never thought poor mental health would happen to me, but it can happen to anyone and it gave me so much insight and I believe i’m a better person for it.
Thank you for contributing to the very necessary conversations on this too-often taboo topic. I wholeheartedly believe that people will choose to stay because of songs like this and the open, vulnerable conversations that they prompt.
It's so fascinating listening to you
😢 it’s hard too explain your feelings and everything, other people.. 🙏
I just comment on one of your other videos.. but I saying it’s aging, hope you don’t taking get it this wrong.. but you’re video helping me in the dark/episode.. likely I am now. So this’s art 🖼️ video it’s amazing how it’s hard to explain your feelings..
thanks Dr Syl
you have warm ❤ // J🇸🇪
As someone who has suffered from suicidal ideation I'm really grateful for your closing remarks. X
Really been enjoying your Ren reaction videos. It's great to hear from a professional who brings insight and empathy to their content. I really think that video is visually and contextually Ren's best, it absolutely nails the darkness, isolation, and hopelessness. As someone who has the benefit of more than enough mental health issues, for me, the finality of suicide is appealing. As you touched upon, treating mental illness is complex and time-consuming, and can require a huge amount of effort at a time when you have little or no energy to put into it, and maybe that's why not all suicides are preventable. Yes there are ways to treat, or at least manage most mental illnesses, but for a lot of sufferers it is a constant struggle to maintain their recovery, and it's fucking exhausting, and that's what kills you. The fucking effort of it all.
It got me at minute 14. Oof, I’ve never had a close friend end their life, but I’ve lived with chronic mostly passive and brief episodes of SI for decades and have lost friends when I was young to serious medical problems. A song like this helps reinforce my will to keep going despite whatever happens to be going on. I anticipate that I will keep having my moments, but I am well practiced in getting through them and they are lessening thanks to my treatment and aligning my life with what is healthiest for me. I didn’t get appropriate care for my neurodivergencies until late diagnosis after my kid was diagnosed, so the thoughts are pretty engrained unfortunately. Thank you
This song reminds me of Hurt by Nine Inch Nails and Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd, but is of course much more overt.
This song reminds me if my last admission last year. What's insane is how much I don't resonate with it anymore. Still a brilliant song!
Just a bit of advice. People want to see the genuine first time reaction. Not something you have studied before hand. It's the emotion and first time reaction that the majority of people want to see. But thank you so much for your input and the time and work that went into your reaction. It's appreciated. Thank you.
I truly believe that we store up past traumas in out body which if we do t find a way to release will come up outof the body as sickness, be that physical or mental. When i first heard suicide I started to cry but stopped myself as I didnt want. When the song stopped and I was realised I was holding in a bubbling eruption I knew I had to go back to listen again. This time I allowed my heart to break and I sobbed my heart out. It nrought ip shit loads of trauma from my teenage years i didnt realise I was holdit onto. It was so cathartic. I listened on repeat until I cried no longer. Ever since then my physical health problems have literally cleared up. Im so grateful to Ren. His musical therapy is helping millions of people. He truly is s gift to mankind. ❤
Beautifully commented on ❤- I felt your pain and reaction as I did too feel that way ❤
This song helped me open up publicly about a similar loss of a good friend in 2010, a situation where I was "too late."
It couldn't have been prevented, had been the plan for my friend for at least 15 years, something he'd spoken openly about "when I go it will be by suicide" all those years.
Still didn't make it easier.
Ren sharing his story about Joe, helped me feel safe opening up about Finn outside of therapy. First in the comments under the original video, later in real life amongst friends.
And since then I've realised a massive weight of guilt and shame has lifted. I still feel some grief, I likely always will. But the sense of constant anhedonia has gone. 13 years was carrying that, and that's what good art can do.
Thank you for mentioning that sometimes we need this as an option. I have CPTSD and treatment resistant depression so I’ve dealt with both active and passive ideation. Honestly, there are always situations where stress pops up and my first thought is I don’t want to be alive. As I’ve aged, I’ve learned to pause and reset and then revisit to think on problem solving. When things are darker, knowing that this is an option actually provides me with the control to avoid it…if things get worse then that exists. It’s like telling someone not to touch something and then all their thoughts are on the pressure not to do it. If it was not an option, that actually puts me more into crisis because then it feels hopeless and like there’s no escape (there’s the CPTSD influence). I’m thankful to have had a therapist who helped me navigate and realize the pattern along with giving me the space to exist as I am. I appreciated your insight on this song.
Beautiful sad song. I feel everything word. Thank you for your reaction
I really really really appreciated your reaction. Opened my eyes a little wider. The suicidal idealizations are too real for a lot of us. You're fantastic man. Just wanted to thank you.
Exactly one year ago my nephew ended his life, one month before his 25th birthday. Leaving us, his family, his little daughter, friends with that massive feel of loss and questions what we could have done to prevent this. We saw the signs, we talked with him. The sad thing is always to realize it's such an irreversable step where we know there were so much possibilities to help avoid this step. But once the decision is made and help is not accepted it's also often an inavoidable step someone will take.... we miss him dearly.
When a therapist on a youtube video describes you but you aint gonna go see one 🙋♂️
If you haven’t listened to it yet I highly recommend seven sin by Ren, it’s describes the moments he feel into psychosis after another failed treatment that went wrong. I’ve never ever in my life known anyone be able to so vividly explain pain and thoughts the way Ren does.
Thank you for your reaction to Ren's music and helping people in your physical practice and here online.
Ha, I seen my name when you were scrolling through the comments there. I was hoping you would get to this song. I knew you would eventually. I know your shooting for 100k subs. You already got mine. Be looking forward to more reactions of REN. I try to focus more on the ones for mental health since that is your field. Diazepam will be a nice one to do also.
12:07
Ren has been very receptive and willing to do interviews with reactors in the past, as long as you have a platform that he believes supports his values and art, which you obviously do.
I don't know how easy it would be to get in touch with him, as he's just getting more and more famous, but shooting him an email and hoping someone reads it, and sees that a therapist reactor with 83k+ subscribers would love to do an interview, if he could make time for you, I'm sure Ren probably would do it.
Still brings tears every watch but tears f understanding how far I've come
Thank you. For the work that you do. I've watched only a couple of videos, but I feel like I've learned more about myself and how to cope at least a bit easier. Truly, thank you.
WOW the last verse hit so hard. I had to pause the video at "running 5 minutes quicker". Devestating lyrics.
Another great reaction, good job, Dr. S.
As a sort of follow up to this, I suggest that you react to "For Joe" sometime soon. It is a live performance which debuted a few months ago and is, of course, extremely well done. I know you'll love it!
I will check it out!
Dr Syl. I just stumbled across your channel. Thank you so much for your intelligent, compassionate content. This one is so powerful. My daughter lost a good friend to suicide when they were both in 8th grade. It has changed her forever.
Thank you for your empathy.
Rens various takes on mental health, has helped me.
I had depersonalization for several months when I was on chemotherapy. I sincerely felt my soul and mind were not in my real body. I felt detached from it. Didn't help that I didn't look like myself in the mirror with no hair. Very disconcerting feeling. Thankfully it got better after treatment was over.
You come across as a very nice guy, sympathetic you seem to genuinely care about people's outcomes which is interesting. I sat in a room with four mental health professionals two weeks before my mum successfully took her life, there had been years of failed attempts and frequent sectioning orders. I spent my late teens visiting her in a mental hospital far too often. They sat there telling me how well she was doing! Two weeks later me and my sister were on suicide watch phoning the crisis helpline begging for them to do something! She slipped out while my sister was watching her while I was at work and did it. Mental health professionals were cold, jobs worths who did not care! I lost all faith in the mental health system, I am to this day cynical about it. I just wish there were more people in the system like you because I can imagine you are actually helping people. You're winning me over a little at least.
And Ren. Wow. Just wow. I'm in awe at how comfortable he can make difficult topics like this feel so okay to talk about. I never tell people my mum committed suicide because I don't want to deal with the awkwardness that comes after that, I actually lie about it to save them the embarrassment of not knowing what to say!
i relate to Ren in this song, My best friend ended his own life by hanging, but his sister had messaged me asking me to check on them as they were worried, i didnt see the message as i didnt have my phone on me, my friend is now no longer here, 2019 he died and survivors guilt doesnt get easier
DBT Group Therapy totally changed my life. I would recommend DBT, one on one, with a group, or by yourself with a workbook to ANYONE, MH Dx or not.
Damn you made me cry hard...
Its so artistic, its so beautiful, its so touching.
I have never heard this guys music before, but im glad i heard this.
I have never had anyone close commit unaliving, but my ex had a friend who did it right before i met him, he also attempted his own unaliving when i broke up with him (we kept eachother down so it was toxic) my now partner had a childhood friend die because he ran out in front of a car, and it still haunts him..
I was invited to a funeral, a guy my age, i didnt know him well as i didnt go to school that year, but my entire friend group did, so i went with them all to show respect and mourn with them.. I cried so much the pain almost choked me, i coulndt hold my body upright..
I could not stop imagine myself in the coffin, my friends all around me, crying, being mad, angry, hurt, sad, all because i like him, dont talk about it anymore..
Every time i think about unaliving myself, this is what i imagen, it keeps me from doing anything more then just wishing really hard..
I HATE that line - I was late like a jerk. Makes me cry everytime. We must not punish ourselves for others actions. I do the same myself over a similar situation. I know it wasn’t my fault, but I still irrationally blame myself.
I get that Ren has so much musical ability and can pull from and perform with skill in so many genre's.. .. but how the hell can somebody, so eloquently, pour so much of their tormented soul into lyrics that reaches so many people with whom it resonates so deeply. I am an atheist, and cannot but wonder if he has been touched by a higher power
I really hope you see this message.
Im curious; What are your thoughts and feelings on assisted suicide as a whole?
Second, Do you think that any mental health disorders could or should be considered for assisted suicide?
The reason I ask is because I have bipolar disorder. I am very well treated with therapy every week for one hour. In addition, i take Lamictal 150 XR and an SNRI. I also attended a peer suport group every week for mental illness.
I have a couple of friends in that group that are truly truly suffering. Therapy isn't helping. Medication isn't helping. Their ideations and significant thoughts are all day every day. At what stage is that considered terminal. And shouldn't these people have the same option to stop the suffering just like someone with ALS??
I would argue yes, on a case by case basis.
I think family and close friends should be included in the decision and have significant counseling together before being approved.
I really hope I haven't triggered anyone. That is never my goal.
If you think you are in the place to answer this question, I'd love to hear what others think as well.
I hope everyone is well. And, Thank you for any feedback. ❤
To those considering taking their own life. Despite what I've said here, suicide is not the answer. If you do that, you are robbing yourself of the opportunity for things to get better. It doesn't stop the pain, it transfers it to the people you love the most. You are worthy of the space you hold. The world won't be the same without you. Please reach out for help. I promise, you are not alone. There are people who will listen. There are people who will help you get help. Just ask.❤
Awesome reaction! Thank you for your insights and thoughts!
Hi Dr Syl. Quick point regarding cognitive behaviour therapy.
Autistic and adhd people (even those prediagnosis) are overrepresented in the population accessing regular psychology/psychotherapy/ psychiatry services. Some estimates place numbers as high as 40% of people accessing therapy services in an ongoing basis are ASD/ADHD or both.
For this cohort, CBT can not only fail to offer any improvement in psychosocial health, but can actually be harmful. It can encourage rumination, manifest as OCD, or worsen trauma. For myself, I only ever experienced suicidal ideation after completing 10 sessions of CBT under a clinical psychologist in my mid 20s.
After being diagnosed with ADHD age 31yrs, I tried CBT based trauma therapy again in my mid 30s, when trying to work on improving PTSD symptoms.
Persisting week after week for almost 9 months, not realising I was gradually getting worse until I finally had a psychotic break.
Now in my 40s I've been diagnosed with both autism and adhd. This year, after my regular psychologist moved to Melbourne, I've been trying out new psychologists. Despite the increasing awareness of "risks" using pure CBT when providing therapy for neurodivergent cohort, most clinical psychologists I've enquired with seem to have CBT as their primary modality of therapy for diagnosed autistic and adhd patients.
I'm really confused and conflicted about this. So I try to make sure any psychiatrist, psychologist and anyone offering therapy services (particularly under a MHCP) is aware that this is very likely a contraindicated treatment for neurodivergent people.
No one likes to "fail" at therapy, be it clinician or patient. Poor outcomes from therapy can be enough to prevent people needing support being willing to try again, or patients can keep persisting for many months and end up in worse mental health than before starting therapy. Or admitted to an acute psychiatric hospital under a treatment order, like I did.
For me a multi-modality therapy approach has been very helpful, and had lasting benefits. I wanted to find the answer as to why a psychologist I began seeing in 2018 was getting results, even after a few weeks. She explained that she "tread lightly" with CBT, as had the impression I was autistic but very good at camouflaging autistic traits. I wasn't formally diagnosed autistic until earlier this year, but took having that clinical psychologist who was autistic herself, to start getting me curious as to my own struggles. And because she was willing to modify her approach "just in case" I've been able to be well enough to not only find a find the right psychologist when I moved from Perth to regional WA, but to also finally feel ready to seek an autism diagnosis this year.
You may find the discussion "How Therapy Can Harm Autistic People w/ Steph Jones" on the channel Yo Sandy Sam (posted on UA-cam a week ago) useful in understanding how CBT and other rigid therapy approaches are harmful, from the perspective of two late diagnosed "AuDHD" women, one a psychotherapist and one who studied psychology.
@Dr. Syl as someone who lived with suicidal thoughts/ attempts this song really hits home. I struggle withdrug resistant MDD, and at one point I wanted help bad enough I took myself to an ER only to be told it hasn't a hpmeless shelter. I got to where I told him he could send me home but when I come back he will either pronounce me or resuscitate me, either way I win. It's been 11 years and I'm still rebuilding my life. I spend my energy talking to people who have suicidal thoights as a friend in the dark. So far it has given me a lot of friends who sometimes call to about it. I think sometimes it helps to be able to say it's that bad and knowing someone understands, and doesn't overtract. I think, knowing I had a way out gave me the will to live People tell me it's bad for my mental health but in some ways I'm alive because of my friends who need me. Music is like therapy to me, songs like this are on a couple of my playlists for the days I want to give up. For me these type of songs are cathartic. I'm 60 and while I still struggle I'm always available to friends and strangers alke bucause I know how it feels so see the light atvthe end of the tunnel praying it's and oncoming train and yet as one netizen said "suicide is a decision you can't live to regret". Katie4life.
Another way of interpreting the "silicone rubber" (feeling fake in his skin) line: A lot of suicidal people walk through life feeling like they're "faking" being happy around their friends, pretending like they feel like everyone else, etc. This is what first came to mind for me personally, and I'm just offering it up as an alternative explanation to being about the experience of depersonalization. (I don't know what he really meant of course--this is my first time hearing this.)
"Suicide sucks" - Dr Syl 2024
Running to watch the Ren video so I know what we're talkin about today hahah
I tried recently and now I feel very selfish and shameful. How do I get over the shame of it? I now know what my red flags are.
"Sick boi, sick boi, bitten by a tick boy!" The tick bite made him gravely ill in every aspect, mentally and physically.. 😢😢
Hi Ren was the 1st song i heard of his. And sick boi was the 2nd.
He was an extremely sick child and very isolated.. It has indeed nearly driven him crazy. . Medics medics are still at a stage of trying to figure out side symptoms of tic bone disease..
He's had his whole immune system reset and stemcell replacement done!
Indeed, He is the best musician and lyricist that I've ever heard in my life🎵🎶
(Context: have been on Disability for 20 years following a catastrophic burnout from Bipolar II).
Every moment of this song feels like it forces the breath from my lungs again (I don't experience that kind of emotion as bad or even unwanted, it's just a reality to face and examine).
The heaviest-hitting lines for me are when Ren is talking about the group of friends, and he says "I numbed myself to close the gap/I never even call them up/the distance is my plaster cast."
Because it speaks to how trauma extends its tendrils into every corner of your being, years and years after the event. Even more than the image of Ren standing on the empty bridge in the middle of the night, those lyrics scream about the pain the trauma has inflicted in his life.
He says "the truth is the night you jumped my childhood jumped too" - he lost Joe and he lost his childhood... and he lost his entire group of friends - his support system - because it was too painful to spend time with them without Joe. Perhaps he also felt the weight of the "guilt" of not getting to Joe "in time" more strongly when he was with his friends; he might easily think they blamed him, even if they told him it wasn't his fault.
But a plaster cast doesn't heal anything. Your body is what heals a fracture; the cast just protects the bone while the healing happens.
And wearing a cast significantly hampers how you interact with the physical world while you wear it.
And eventually, that cast has to come off or you might be left with muscles that don't coordinate well when you "request" for them to work, which is a situation that can require a real ongoing commitment to rehab.
The whole bloody song is incredible, but those lyrics are genius.
I lost my beautiful talented son 3 year ago,he get out what he said off a ugley world,we try..omg how whe try,we lost him and now we must be strong to his twin sister..it hurts
Ty for sharing your perspective. My advice: dig deeper there is more there.
what has really helped me was the song "bullet" by hollywood undead, i still listen it sometimes, it sounds happy song at first even tho its not but it really combines of the "im happy, everything is fine" mask with the feelings of emotional pain
I have yet to hear any reactor, albeit Dr. or not mention a line in this song, which to me, is the single most important.
The line "...It never really seems like the right time..." sums the song up for me. It is a cry of hope. Yes, it is tempting, but life is even more tempting to continue with.
Why does no one focus on this repeated line of hope in the song????
This song makes me very emotional. I had a recent family friend unalive himself and it triggered alot of emotions. I'm sure even people that have never been to that point had strong emotions about this song. He is a amazing artist. Lately masochist has been one of my favorites of his
New sub renegades keeping 5he world a fluffier place good show
great reaction and good commentary! first time i have seen your channel so new sub here!
Suicide isn't really ending your own pain. You're really just giving it to the people who love you.
This is what I remimd myself of when my head goes to that dark place. And I go there a lot. A remarkably horrible consequence of unresolved childhood trauma. Some trauma is akin to a virus in a computer. It affects your brain development insuch a way that there is no cure. You simply learn to live around it. Sort of like grief... when we lose someone we have a strong bond with that grief is always with us. It never goes away. We simply learn to live it. My children are my anchor. I lost my mom when I was 8. The pain it caused ... I couldn't do that to my children. Not knowing what I know. My love for them outweighs my desire to end to my own pain and suffering. I do contemplate it a lot, though. This song hit me so hard. I can feel the pain in it.
Oddly enough my favorite part was your nod when he said he missed himself.
I would love to hear your thoughts on Ren's 'Defining Success, 1m Subscriber" video. He discussed trauma, acceptance, bitterness, depression, and how to find onself in the dark. It would be so interesting to hear your professional perspective on the lessons his health journey has taught him.
This is completely unrelated but I would love to see you make some content about ADHD, Substance Use Disorder and the many complexities that exist when both are co-occurring (especially if the ADHD diagnosis occurs as an adult). I feel like there is a lack of this content online, especially quality Australian made content 🇦🇺
Ppl who think suicide is an option aren't ok as one (with way more issues than most). We aren't okay.
I don’t think he’s calling his mother useless, he is talking about trying to eat but his body purges. He’s telling his mom it’s useless, can’t keep in my supper.
I feel like "Treading on the tracks in the night time. It never really felt like the right time" was a bit of a message that suicide isnt the answer. We all interpret songs differently, obviously. But that was my take.
React to REN Chapter 1 & Chapter 2. Cut wrenchingly powerful.
The first verse:
Narcissistic, can't keep a secret/Miscount sheep, I can't sleep, a misfit
/Some say troubled, but some say sadistic
My take on that was simply: Narcissistic, can't hold a secret (I told someone about my suicide thoughts and was told I was being narcissistic. Selfish, because not thinking about others, very common response.) Miscount sheep, I can't sleep, a misfit (we are told to count sheep to fall a sleep, he can't, keeps miscounting, also he is a misfit not counted in (a black sheep). Some say troubled, but some sadistic. Having these thoughts, some say he is troubled, other sadistic (tormenting people that love him). Finally, the responses he got, I think, probably did not include such strong words, narcissistic/sadistic, but he himself is using them about himself from a guilt of having these thoughts
He then ends about talking about feeling his body/skin is not real, not his. I think he is here referring to the state of his body because of the Lyme disease, not connecting to this constantly hurting body, pain that just comes and he is in no control over. Then ending talking about trying to resist the thought of suicide. As a person in constant pain I understand this disconnection to the body. And it took time to accept this constantly hurting body but when you do, you also realize that it can bring you joy and wellbeing. It gives you opportunity to sense the world and you do have control over whether you allow yourself to sense pleasant experiences or whether you just focus on the pain the body is bringing you. I still, sometimes fall into negativity and just hate my body and don't have any love for it.
I would love for you to react to Crutch, which is another song from Ren 🙏🙏🙏
Self harm just to feel something I know that feeling the derealization and urge to feel something
The video reminds me of A Scanner Darkly.