Learn Cantonese the Musical Way # 1 用音樂學廣東話 (粵語)
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- Doug Lee, a native Cantonese Speaker, presents his original "Musical Method for Learning Cantonese" to help non Chinese learners to easily master the tonal nuisance in the Cantonese dialect, or, any other tonal dialect. 用音樂學廣東話 (粵語)
Video #1 demonstrate 4 of the 6 common tones in the Cantonese dialect.
Up till now, there has been no systematic and objective methods which can describe the 6 spoken tones in the Cantonese dialect. The only way to learn Cantonese is to listen to a native speaker, either on tape or in person, and try to mimic the tones as best one can.
With this method, you can speak tone-perfect simple Cantonese phrases, just like a native Cantonese speaker, as long as you have access to a simple keyboard (which is readily available on your iPad or smart phone).
If you are a kwai lo (foreigner) who is living in Hong Kong and trying to impress your Cantonese friends with a few simple Cantonese phrases, then this method is for you.
some people say, speak cantonese like singing, you point out that perfectly
Thank you very much for your VDO, you really made the cantonese tone more easier to understand for me.
Wow, this is super innovative, Doug!
Thank you for this video, it is really helpful 😁
Thank you very much for this. It seems that there is one tone that I have trouble hearing although musically, I usally have a great ear for singing. I am grateful for your teaching.Barbara
Great work Doug!
Very brilliant. Thank you!
Thank you for your hard work
謝謝老師的影片
Thank you very much Sir, your video is very awesome C: Best regards ^^
I'm learning Cantonese, so thanks for your great work. Cantonese is my native language though.
How is it going? I'm just starting now ..do you have any advice that could help out?👌🏻
this is great!!
Interesting way to learn
Treat Cantonese as music, good idea!
唔該 多謝 for video!!!
That's very interesting!
Genius!
Could you do this musical method but for learning mandarin? Thanks in advance! 非常感谢 !!!
多謝
I don't see a Cantonese playlist on this channel, maybe it was just one video.
I'm trying to find out about Deqing dialect of Yue Chinese, if you know of any resources ?
anyhow..
Am I right in saying? this system that you are presenting, is quite separate from the 1-3-6-4 flat tones in descending sequence that is the standard jyutping romanisation ( with 2 [full rise] & 5 [lower cut rise] tones ) ?
In other words to avoid confusion, perhaps you should have used so - mi - re - do ( with [ do#>rei ] and [fa>so], as symbols instead of the numbers which have meaning elsewhere.
peace.
Thats interesting
I think this can help to get aware of the differences between the tones. But the spoken language doesn´t really sound like singing. It still sounds like speaking. So the pitches are not supposed to be so precise. If you sing the words exactly in the melody it will sound like singing and not speaking. Also some of the tones should be rising up and some should be falling down.
how are your tones written in other romanised systems, so i can use ur system to improve my Cantonese into more advanced phrases and words. :)
unfortunately, I do not know if there are any standardized romanised system for the Cantonese words. One just write down what seems to fit best phonetically. For example, I write "yud" for the number "one". Someone else may like to write "yut". Remembering Cantonese is monosyllabic , you don't pronounce the d or t ending, then both will sound the same.
Hmm how about in Cantonese songs? The tones will not remain the same anymore.
Quite creative !! (although I don't quite agree with the accuracy of the exact tones of the the first six notes in an octave and the 6 tones of Cantonese. They are not identical.)
the whole notes; (do, me, fa, la or 1, 3, 4, 6) are actually exact tones. If you say one two three four in Cantonese, it is exactly the same as la ,me, la, fa. The tone for the words five and nine are a bit harder to represent. I tried my best to represent these sounds with "grace notes" (sequentially combined sounds on keyboards) 4-5 for the tone of the word "five" (which I represented with "tho") and 4-5-6 for the tone of "nine (which I represented with the word "well")
its hard ikr, it requires long time practice wif native speakers.
Traditionally, native English speakers, and even northern Chinese, have great difficulty grasping the tonal nuance of colloquial Cantonese. You might know foreigners who can speak the words of Cantonese but still ca't get the tone right. That's because they naturally remain on the top end of the scale, using only the tones of "so" and "la" , or 5 and 6. They can get it right if somebody only shows them they have to come down the musical scale to do, me and fa. Try to teach Cantonese to a native English speaking friend and you'll find this is exactly what happens. Show them this system and they'll be speaking like a real Cantonese in no time!
Hi Doug,
By tonal "nuisance",I'm assuming you meant tonal "nuance" ?
Asia Experience
yes indeed, thank you for bringing it to my attention :)
what's the name of that keyboard app?
Its called "Piano Free"
those spellings
how many tones in Cantonese, sir?
Im Vietnamese. My lang. has 6 tones.
Le NGuyen In Cantonese it's 7!
+Le NGuyen Cantonese actually has 9, it's complicated -_-
+MrFrogpilot Originally it has 9 tones but now there are only 6 left (which is still a lot). Since you're Vietnamese I think it shouldn't be too hard for you to learn cantonese :)
For the purist, there are nine. For all intends and purposes of daily conversations, six will suffice. Just as for Mandarin, there are 4 sounds, but only three tones.
+Le NGuyen 9, but the tones 7,8 and 9 are actually used to indicate words that end with checked tones (words end with letter k, t, p etc.) on tones 1, 3 and 6. so in terms of music tones, there literally 6 tones lol
the south province name is 广东， 广州 is it’s capital
Maxim Liubavin I caught that mistake right away. Guangzhou is not a province. Should be Guangdong.
Is it possibel for people who don't have perfect pitch to learn and understand cantonese to an advanced level? I was told the Cantonese population has the largest percentage of people in the world with perfect pitch because they start learning the tonal language as babies.
I'm not entirely sure to what "advanced level" would refer. If it means speaking like a local with the perfect tonal pitch, yes, it can be done easily with this method. However, Cantonese is a very colloquial language and it is shaped by local slang words and phrases which evolve rapidly. I haven't lived in Hong Kong for 40 years and the locals in the streets can tell I'm a "foreigner" in an instance, not with my tone but with my phrasings.
Doug, you actually look like a North Chinese
He kind of does, I don't even know how I know that.
it is creative Doug thank you for the efforts. However i disagree to it too simply because, your illustration of music pitch / tone works for a typical male voice but doesnt work for a female voice : )
i think you can just move up an octave if your voice is higher
it's a language
翻轉學習，香港人在這條影片上學英文
Great concept, but the demonstration makes no sense because you are not speaking the tones of the musical scale. I know that others have already made this comment, but your response to those comments does not make sense to me, either. Perhaps collaborate with a musician to clarify?
Also, it would be helpful if you change the “piano” sound to a sustained sound, like an organ sound.
every person's natural voice has a distinct timbre which is modified by the skull and sinuses, but the sound one makes has to fall on some segment of a musical scale. A Soprano and a Bass singer tackle notes from a different spectrum of the scale. Singers have to pick songs which fall within his/her vocal range. e.g. Celine Dion and Neil Diamond have different vocal ranges. You can ask a friend who knows music to help you identify your vocal range. One just hum a nursery rhyme and a musician will be able to pick exactly what key you are in. There is a key which suits you perfectly but it may not be easy to play on a keyboard. I have chosen the key of C and G, as the first 6 keys are all white keys on a keyboard. It is easier for non musicians to play on a keyboard. It may not match your normal vocal key exactly, but it should be close enough. If you show the video or this explanation to a musician friend, he/she will no doubt be able to explain it to you. Thank you again for your interest and comments.
I am a musician and a music professor, with a PhD. in music.
If what you say is true, then you should be able to pick the correct key and register for YOUR voice for the demonstration. By speaking different pitches than the ones you play on the piano, that only makes for confusion.
Thank you again for your comment. I do appreciate your feedback. If I were to match my native tone, it would be C#, which would be confusing to demonstrate. I used the scale of C & G to make it easier to demonstrate to the general public. Obviously it may not be a perfect match for every one. Its a compromise which I hope is good enough. Since you are a professor of music, you would have no difficulty matching your conversation tone to the correct key. Would you mind giving that a try?
晒洗车？ 洗晒车？
曬西斜，洗細車 :)
The first video introduces 4 tones.
There are two more tones, which are introduced in video # 2
kittyhawk23 Ok thanks!
sorry. for me it doesent make sense to use a keyboard to learn cantonese because the tone you are using is diffrent on a keyboard. it is really different like when you say car in cantonese you dont prenounse (che) the H in the word or tea (cha) because in mandarin you have to prenounse the H but it is different in cantonese but if you want to prenounse the H than you have to do it more soft, because it sound like you are from guangxi and that is not the real cantonese
Thank you for your constructive comment. You have pointed out two issues: The second issue you raised is the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin. Each word in Mandarin is made up of two or three sounds while each Cantonese word is almost a single sound. This is what make Mandarin sounds so awkward when spoken by an uninitiated Cantonese. For example the word nine, it is pronounced with three distinct consonants in Mandarin. Even in Cantonese, it is constructed with three consonants, but for all intends and purpose, if you pronounce "gul", to the average person on the street, it sounds right. What is not right is the tone. Get the tone wrong, the word can be number nine or it can be a swear word. It is exclusively this issue which my method is trying to address. I think I know what you mean when you say the tone one is using is different on a keyboard. This is a valid comment. However, the truth is : whatever tone one speaks, it can be matched on a keyboard, but it may be on a different key. In my video, I claimed that all the tones of Cantonese can be represented in the first 6 notes of a keyboard and I have chosen the key of C or G for the sake of easy illustration because the first 6 notes of these two keys are only white keys. Indeed a person's native tone may not exactly match these two keys. However, if you pronunce 1,2,3,4 ,in Cantonese ( which have the ones : la, me, la, fa, or 6 ,3 ,6, 4 in my method) ask a friend who knows music to play it on a keyboard, he/she will find a key which matches your tone exactly.
A piano can be used only for the 3 (technically 6) level tones in Cantonese (high, mid, mid-low). But the 2 rising tones and 1 falling tone needs an instrument that can bend (or slide) notes, like a guitar. That's where this system fails.
I agree with what you say, you are absolutely correct. However, for viewers who do not know music, it is not easy to illustrate a sliding tone with an instrument. I pick a keyboard as it is the most available platform (especially with cell phone apps). Using "grace notes" is not a perfect illustration but it does give a general idea of the sound. In English , the word "well?" is pronounced exactly as the tone for "9" in Cantonese. So I use "well" to represent this tone. This leaves only the tone for "5" (which is Fa-So or 4-5 in quick succession in my method). The word "though" in mid sentence is almost a similar tone, but not exactly the same. So, you see, my method is a compromise. Just trying to make a complex system simple to grasp. I admit it is not perfect. BTW, sometimes, when a Chinese orchestra plays western music, it still sounds oriental. That's because Chinese musicians tend to "slide" the transition between notes, (as one does with Er Wu), which gives the music an oriental feel!
my parents used to speak, but i never learned...I had no idea this is in danger of going extinct! must stop this
Thank you but Cantonese is actually not a dialect.
Cantonese might be indeed the easiest chinese dialects to learn but it's still extremely difficult for non Chinese people. Luckily Mandarin is way more easy to learn
Thank you for your comment and your interest in Chinese language. I think Mandarin is easier to learn because it is more structured. Each word has an exact "spelling" for you to get the pronunciation right. However my musical method may still assist you to speak mandarin perfectly.
In Mandarin, you have been taught the four sounds, first, second, third or fourth, which many new learners still find confusing. However, applying my musical method, Mandarin only has three tones: which is : la, well, tho, la or 6, 456, 34, 6. The fourth sound is the same tone as the first sound only with a more abrupt ending while the first sound is a bit more drawn out. How about giving it a try on a keyboard?
The notes in a musical octave does not correspond perfectly with Cantonese tones. So this system is bogus.
Thank you for taking time to comment. However, the truth is : whatever tone one speaks, it can be matched on a keyboard, but it may be on a different key. In my video, I claimed that all the tones of Cantonese can be represented in the first 6 notes of a keyboard and I have chosen the key of C or G for the sake of easy illustration because the first 6 notes of these two keys are only white keys. Indeed a person's native tone may not exactly match these two keys. However, if you pronunce 1,2,3,4 ,in Cantonese ( which have the ones : la, me, la, fa, or 6 ,3 ,6, 4 in my method) ask a friend who knows music to play it on a keyboard, he/she will find a key which matches your tone exactly.