i find resting my hands on a soft surface like a pillow in my case tends to work very well you force movement and hold movement very easily pillows position can help with how sensitive your movement are by adding some resistance I hope that made sence
Absolutely hilarious and fantastic tips. Formation flying definitely easier IRL, but one of my many instructors said something that translates well to VR games, "whatever control correction you just put in, take half out and adjust from there". Even in games that don't do perfect side stick placement in fictional planes, these are GOAT tips. Just do it how you would for real; be safe, fly the plane, plan three steps ahead, always have an out, don't lose sight of flight lead, and be courteous to your wingmen.
Pro tip: precision flying is a hell of a lot easier if you set up your joystick position so that you can pivot the tip of your controller on your chair armrest like a stick. For precise throttle control, you can roll the tracking ring of your left controller on your armrest.
I'm playing on the couch and placing a pillow under my right arm has been a gamechanger now I only need something to support the weight if the HTC Vive
Its so amazing going for a multiplayer mission in VTOLVR and work in squads. Also very cool to travel in formation but it wears you out trying to keep up. So I find these tips really helpful.
Oh this is fantastic! Includes everything I've been teaching to the people I've been getting into VTOL VR, while also adding super helpful references and pointers that will totally help them, such as using a second line of reference for maintaining constant distance. Love the inclusion of real world comparison to help emphasize the concepts and why one needs to rely a lot more on visual reference and maintaining input stability. Really well put together!
Another key point for throttle that I've seen A LOT of people do: NEVER slam full burner, then go idle with full brake when in formation, it just turns into a forward and back oscillation and will screw you over. Be nice and easy :)
I just fly on the couch and keep the stick (right) next to my right leg, makes fine movements easier. Can't underestimate what you said about keeping it loose, or not white knuckling it, that'll just throw everything off. Cheers! Great vid!
Thanks for saying! There's been a couple of times I've played it on the couch but always find the switches down the side are hard to get to, from memory I had to push really hard into the cushion to reach the mp3 player 🤔
Great video! I'm sure you've flown exercises like this, but putting both wings and leads through exercises aside from just fingertip helps a lot. Just like stuff you probably flew in pilot training, going through transitions, rejoins, and extended trail exercises are good ones to help formation skills develop faster. Getting a wingman that is familiar with those kind of scenarios would make for a great video too. Good stuff!
Heck yeah that'd be great to do some turning rejoins, station changes etc. I did it with some ppl once but it's hard getting people to see the benefits and focus on doing those exercises, when they can instead go and blow stuff up and get straight into dogfighting - they're the instant-gratification generation after all
I thought I'd gotten bad at formation flying when playing the border war scenario then I realized the lead is constantly on afterburner zooming as fast as possible, making it almost impossible to catch up.
VTOL VR has its planes modeled after real fighters, there is "Offical" Formation sightlines for all fo them. Rules generally include: Fly so that your flight lead can see you without truning his head 180deg... Dont go too far forward (acute) dont go too far behind (sucked). always fly a step down position (you see the top of leads jet something is wrong), no wing overlap (unless youre the blue angels or sth) Have a good scan of leads Jet doing, dont foxus too much on one sight line.
I'm curious how you got that kneeboard at 3:30 to overlay above your stabilized view. I've been struggling to find a solution that stabilizes the VR camera while still rendering my overlays like OpenKneeboard. Also this tutorial was awesome. It was very funny and informative.
Thanks for saying! The kneeboard is just pinning the desktop overlay (pinning it keeps open when you close the system menu) in the main Oculus menu. That desktop screen just has the pdfs open. Then Oculus Mirror (with all overlays visibility enabled) open and stabilise turned on.
@@SLGY If it's not too much of a hassle what settings did you use for the Oculus mirror? I tried that solution before but all of my footage looked like I was looking through a straw.
They need to add joystick support it would be awkward in be using a hotas in be as you probably wouldn’t be able to reach half the buttons due to the table getting in the way but I’d definitely rig something up if it was supported it make flying so much smoother
I actually downloaded the joystick mod for the game a couple of weeks ago and tested it out briefly. And, oh boy, flying form is so much easier (I have a VKB gunfighter with 300mm custom stick extension) - you can assign joystick buttons to most things but.... as you pointed out it's either banging your hands on the desk if you use the vr switches or you're trying to reach for irl switches on your joystick that you can't see, and bang your hands on the desk. So it doesn't really work. I don't think it's multiplayer compatible either.
Can you do a tutorial for turning whilst in formation, i like this tutorial and im gonna apply it to VR chat (desert airbase) but what i think could be helpful for people is how to maintain distance in a turn
Good idea, I should have made reference to turns as well, there's a couple of different way to do it, I'll try and include them in future videos, like an advanced lesson or something
@@SLGY awesome! Also i wish i could play vtol vr, steam vr isnt supported on mac (its my dads work mac that he lets me use and i wish i could build a pc but no money)
A VR desktop display pinned to stay open when switching back to the game. The desktop display just has the checklist PDF open. The Hawks & Talks discord channel created the checklists 👍
There's a good free app called Open Kneeboard too, which is better than what I used here. I've used open Kneeboard for the updated ILS video coming out soon
I guess I would ask why you'd need to know their airspeed? I guess it'd be handy to know before the rejoin (then use briefed speeds, voice comms, or lock them on radar to determine speed), but once you're on lead's wing in close form you won't be too interested in their speed?
I know right, the clip I used in the vid as an example of 'what not to do' was from Show of Force, the lead aircraft commits nearly all lead aircraft sins in that mission.
The game counts formation flying as show formation flying.... NO one in the Airforce would fly that close. If the game would be fair and realistic then 0.5 nm is close enough. Also because the mission in the T 55 requires you to fly so close, I had the issue that the AI just rammed me in turns because the AI dosent give a damm... Also the AI in the missions is cheating. If the AI wingmans in the T 55 mission have the same payloade as you. Which they seamingly have, you would not be able to change speed and make such dresting turns, like the AI dose. Its freaking hillarious. And its not the only missions where the AI just straight up cheats. I most cases it is the enemy AI that is just turning on a dime and jinxing like a god in dogfights with extra fuel tanks and 10 missals equipt. It is a freaking joke to me that they increase the difficulty of missions so lazy like that.
Video has subtitles for anyone not able to penetrate the accent 🦘
Your accent is the best!
understandable
Joke's on you mate, as a non native speaker all accents are equally foreign to me!
Penetrate 😳
i find resting my hands on a soft surface like a pillow in my case tends to work very well you force movement and hold movement very easily pillows position can help with how sensitive your movement are by adding some resistance I hope that made sence
Absolutely hilarious and fantastic tips. Formation flying definitely easier IRL, but one of my many instructors said something that translates well to VR games, "whatever control correction you just put in, take half out and adjust from there". Even in games that don't do perfect side stick placement in fictional planes, these are GOAT tips. Just do it how you would for real; be safe, fly the plane, plan three steps ahead, always have an out, don't lose sight of flight lead, and be courteous to your wingmen.
Heck yeh. I like that 'take half out' tip too, haven't heard that before but it's a good one 👍
I love the DCS F/A-18C soundtrack in the beginning.
Haha niiice. I was wondering if someone would notice that 😁 you've made my day o7
@@SLGY Haha! That’s awesome man! Many hours in the mission editor jammin to that one. Lol o7
That graph was incredibly helpful. Your retention sacrifice was not in vain. You have bettered at least one pilot today.
Glad to be of service! o7
@falcononpc Agreed, This was THE BEST speed stable/unstable explanation I have seen!
Pro tip: precision flying is a hell of a lot easier if you set up your joystick position so that you can pivot the tip of your controller on your chair armrest like a stick. For precise throttle control, you can roll the tracking ring of your left controller on your armrest.
I'm playing on the couch and placing a pillow under my right arm has been a gamechanger now I only need something to support the weight if the HTC Vive
The only problem I find with this method is I end up twisting the stick too much at the same time and putting in some rudder.
I've been waiting for a video like this. I will take this knowledge to my grave after my wingman inevitably careens into me tomorrow
Its so amazing going for a multiplayer mission in VTOLVR and work in squads. Also very cool to travel in formation but it wears you out trying to keep up. So I find these tips really helpful.
That was a really good lunch break investment to watch this... now I just need to get home and ....yeah...get home. 😅
Thanks for saying 👌
Oh this is fantastic! Includes everything I've been teaching to the people I've been getting into VTOL VR, while also adding super helpful references and pointers that will totally help them, such as using a second line of reference for maintaining constant distance. Love the inclusion of real world comparison to help emphasize the concepts and why one needs to rely a lot more on visual reference and maintaining input stability. Really well put together!
Thanks for saying! much appreciated 😊
Another key point for throttle that I've seen A LOT of people do: NEVER slam full burner, then go idle with full brake when in formation, it just turns into a forward and back oscillation and will screw you over. Be nice and easy :)
Added to that - as a flight lead, if you have to, call it out before you do it so you can make your formation aware.
Love the formation ejection at the end.
This video is amazing brother, the editing, the commentary, and especially thee vibeeee (haha) Is perfect and you sir have earned yourself a sub.
Welcome aboard 🙏
Really good points for beginners Awsome video
As an nonnative speaker, I accidentally found that your video is pretty much a good listening material for practicing lmao.
I just fly on the couch and keep the stick (right) next to my right leg, makes fine movements easier. Can't underestimate what you said about keeping it loose, or not white knuckling it, that'll just throw everything off. Cheers! Great vid!
Thanks for saying! There's been a couple of times I've played it on the couch but always find the switches down the side are hard to get to, from memory I had to push really hard into the cushion to reach the mp3 player 🤔
this is the greatest channel i have stumbled across absolutely amazing content 👍👍
Thanks!
Great video! I'm sure you've flown exercises like this, but putting both wings and leads through exercises aside from just fingertip helps a lot. Just like stuff you probably flew in pilot training, going through transitions, rejoins, and extended trail exercises are good ones to help formation skills develop faster. Getting a wingman that is familiar with those kind of scenarios would make for a great video too. Good stuff!
Heck yeah that'd be great to do some turning rejoins, station changes etc. I did it with some ppl once but it's hard getting people to see the benefits and focus on doing those exercises, when they can instead go and blow stuff up and get straight into dogfighting - they're the instant-gratification generation after all
Great video extremely underrated
Thanks! 🙏
I thought I'd gotten bad at formation flying when playing the border war scenario then I realized the lead is constantly on afterburner zooming as fast as possible, making it almost impossible to catch up.
Yeah that mission is a perfect example of how *not* to fly as lead 😕
Thank you so much this helped me and gave me ideas for combat maneuvers as well
glad I could help 👌
i hear the F/A-18C DCS Module Theme at the beginning ahaha
Good pickup 😉
VTOL VR has its planes modeled after real fighters, there is "Offical" Formation sightlines for all fo them. Rules generally include: Fly so that your flight lead can see you without truning his head 180deg... Dont go too far forward (acute) dont go too far behind (sucked). always fly a step down position (you see the top of leads jet something is wrong), no wing overlap (unless youre the blue angels or sth) Have a good scan of leads Jet doing, dont foxus too much on one sight line.
0:03 ya didn’t think I wouldn’t notice that ISAF logo on the tail
Was in a session the other day with u I think u seemed like a rly chill dude lol
Thanks for saying, 🙏
Good stuff
Thanks fam
very nice short to the point video!
Love it!
Thanks!!
I'm curious how you got that kneeboard at 3:30 to overlay above your stabilized view. I've been struggling to find a solution that stabilizes the VR camera while still rendering my overlays like OpenKneeboard. Also this tutorial was awesome. It was very funny and informative.
Thanks for saying! The kneeboard is just pinning the desktop overlay (pinning it keeps open when you close the system menu) in the main Oculus menu. That desktop screen just has the pdfs open. Then Oculus Mirror (with all overlays visibility enabled) open and stabilise turned on.
@@SLGY If it's not too much of a hassle what settings did you use for the Oculus mirror? I tried that solution before but all of my footage looked like I was looking through a straw.
yeh for sure, the settings I use are:
FOV Stencil: On
FOV Scale (X & Y): 150%
*Stabilisation Parameters:*
FOV Crop Angle: 12 angstrom
Dead-Zone Radius: 6.5 angstrom
Smooth speed inside dead zone: 6%
Smooth speed outside dead zone: 17 ×
Mirror latency: 74.0 ms
@@SLGY Thanks SG Ill be sure to give those settings a try
with the no feed back, maybe turning on body phys. in the settings helps
Good thinking, I might give that a try next time and see if it helps
What program do you use to edit? Love it
Oh thankyou 😊 I just use Premiere for editing
Fantastic!
Nice! But you fly the bus next time 😂
Hah yeh that's fair, you've been shafted with it twice now
5:26 Unironically had a hard time not clicking off. Well, here I go
Lol thanks for sticking around 🙏
noob q: how do you get the checklists shown at 3:29?
Hey this video here will show you how to set it up: ua-cam.com/video/0hofZ_0AhGI/v-deo.html
@@SLGY thanks!!
They need to add joystick support it would be awkward in be using a hotas in be as you probably wouldn’t be able to reach half the buttons due to the table getting in the way but I’d definitely rig something up if it was supported it make flying so much smoother
I actually downloaded the joystick mod for the game a couple of weeks ago and tested it out briefly. And, oh boy, flying form is so much easier (I have a VKB gunfighter with 300mm custom stick extension) - you can assign joystick buttons to most things but.... as you pointed out it's either banging your hands on the desk if you use the vr switches or you're trying to reach for irl switches on your joystick that you can't see, and bang your hands on the desk. So it doesn't really work. I don't think it's multiplayer compatible either.
we should send the link to the comment area in steam of this game page
I love at 0:16 the landing at Richmond Airport. Recognised it in seconds. Was that your landing?
Well spotted, it sure is, and boy does that runway at Richmond feel short when doing touch and goes in a 737.
Thought you could slip the DCS f-18 theme past us eh?
Im kinda srtuggling with the first tyro mission, any tips?
Can you do a tutorial for turning whilst in formation, i like this tutorial and im gonna apply it to VR chat (desert airbase) but what i think could be helpful for people is how to maintain distance in a turn
Good idea, I should have made reference to turns as well, there's a couple of different way to do it, I'll try and include them in future videos, like an advanced lesson or something
@@SLGY awesome! Also i wish i could play vtol vr, steam vr isnt supported on mac (its my dads work mac that he lets me use and i wish i could build a pc but no money)
not the dcs music (its a banger)
what game was that with the darkstar
That's Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 👌
Fuckin great video
What was that separate screen with the T-55 Checklist?
A VR desktop display pinned to stay open when switching back to the game. The desktop display just has the checklist PDF open. The Hawks & Talks discord channel created the checklists 👍
Just curious, how did you bring up the checklist??
That was a custom one made by a member of Hawks and Talks discord, it's not an official one.
@@SLGY oh okay. that’s awesome though!
There's a good free app called Open Kneeboard too, which is better than what I used here. I've used open Kneeboard for the updated ILS video coming out soon
@@SLGY thanks mate!
interesting to know that real pilots still go home and play arcady sim games
It's a good way for pilots to scratch that itch if they change to a ground job like I did
@@SLGY oh, that makes sense, i thought you are active one :D
very useful advices btw, thank you a lot!
How do you know their airspeed?
I guess I would ask why you'd need to know their airspeed? I guess it'd be handy to know before the rejoin (then use briefed speeds, voice comms, or lock them on radar to determine speed), but once you're on lead's wing in close form you won't be too interested in their speed?
Why are you flying with VR controllers and not a HOTAS system?
hotas is not supported in vtol vr
SG i really hope we can maybe play together in the future
might just catch you around in some of the public lobbies, im always lurking around
how do you get the smoke
There's a toggle for it in the aircraft options menu screen in the cockpit 👍
ah okay! and also, how did you get those nice checklists?@@SLGY
Why
Is he so damn hard to see?
Well it must be his flyin'
'Cause it damn sure isn't me!
this is why people fly with hotas
Now....how do we apply this to "Show of Force." 🤣😂🤣🤣
I know right, the clip I used in the vid as an example of 'what not to do' was from Show of Force, the lead aircraft commits nearly all lead aircraft sins in that mission.
@@SLGY That just makes it funnier...makes me wonder wtf the BD team was thinking.
Enter DCS F-18 Theme song
Games are a great source of decent copyright-free background music ☺️
@@SLGY Definitely
The game counts formation flying as show formation flying.... NO one in the Airforce would fly that close. If the game would be fair and realistic then 0.5 nm is close enough. Also because the mission in the T 55 requires you to fly so close, I had the issue that the AI just rammed me in turns because the AI dosent give a damm... Also the AI in the missions is cheating. If the AI wingmans in the T 55 mission have the same payloade as you. Which they seamingly have, you would not be able to change speed and make such dresting turns, like the AI dose. Its freaking hillarious. And its not the only missions where the AI just straight up cheats. I most cases it is the enemy AI that is just turning on a dime and jinxing like a god in dogfights with extra fuel tanks and 10 missals equipt. It is a freaking joke to me that they increase the difficulty of missions so lazy like that.