VG45K: Rheinmetall's 8mm Kurz Volksgewehr
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
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As the end of World War Two loomed close, the German arms industry turned to a number of Volkssturm rifle designs. These were the crudest and simplest rifles that could be made to work with minimal time, labor, and raw materials. Most were bolt action rifles chambered for 8x57mm, like the Walther VG-1 - but in December 1944 a Rheinmetall design in 8x33mm was tested and approved.
This design, designated the VG-3 by the military but also known as the VG45K by the company, was a simple bolt action turnbolt rifle. It never appear to have actually entered mass production, but two examples were uncovered by British investigators in Sömmerda in 1945. One had a full stock design, and one used a stamped receiver with a separate stock and handguard. It is that second design that was reproduced in the rifle we have today. It feeds from standard Sturmgewehr magazines, and has a pretty interesting stamped receiver design. The bolt guide rails are actually just the top of the receiver stamping, folded down horizontally.
Thanks to the relatively low power of the the 8x33mm cartridge, it is a pretty comfortable rifle to shoot despite the heavy trigger and rather sharp edge on the stock. And this example proved more accurate and more reliable than I had expected!
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I like how the butstock looks like it's made from a salvaged school desk lid
Looks like it came off a Red Rider to me.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it was
Looks like it doubles as a cutting board
The user will adjust to suit. If he has a knife and enough time.
@@myparceltape1169
Heck, they'll probably end up smoothing the cheek area by grinding it on a chunk of concrete if need be. This looks like a workable design
This is something straight out of a post-apocalypse gunsmith fantasy. Would fit perfectly in metro or fallout universe
There actually is a Volkssturmgewehr rifle in Fallout 4 called the Radium Rifle.
It's modeled on the VG1-5, aka Volksturmgewehr Gustloff.
The regular combat rifle and combat shotgun from fallout 4 are not far from this
I'll give an upvote to everyone who mentions Metro 2033.
Here's yours.
for the germans it was apocalypse
Out of all the weapons the spinner is thwarted by an extremely obscure and rare WW2 rifle. I can dig this twist of events.
It was caught napping... or laughing at the rifle.
Never underestimate the effectiveness of German engineering in desperate times. The fluff burns away and the purpose boils down to Make. It. Work.
There was a pretty good headshot at 06:08 as well.
Not just obscure or rare, literally non-existent lol.
@@karkosgiehex Das Auto
"The records get pretty sketchy." Cut to a bombardier in a B-17, "That would be my doing."
Flak bait hoo ha ha
Yeah, right. An American MUST have done it. Nobody else bombed Germany, only the Americans 🤦♂️
Or a Landcaster, Bombardier was/is Canadian out of Quebec.
@@damirblazevic4823 as marginal as even American carefully aimed daylight bombing was, British mass night bombing def didn’t hit no military targets except by extraordinary accident, ace.
@@Inflorescensse You are completely right, as Americans usually are. Americans indeed "carefuly aimed" and yet managed to carpet bomb entire cities and its surroundings, while the British recklessly "area bombed" entire cities and its surrounding. That's one for the Americans, for sure. And the British only ever used 1500 aircraft while Americans used 100.000. Congratulations on your accuracy (no pun intented 🙄)
When you accidentially design one of the most modern bolt action rifles of the time in concept
Necessity and invention and all that.
Hey Ian! Would you take a more refined version of this into ww2 given you had the ammo?
Not if I had access to anything semiauto.
Tbf I wonder if its not better to use full power cartridges, if you use bolt action anyway? Its not like you gonna lay down a lot of suppression fire, and it might be better to have at least more stopping power.
@@termitreter6545 Not when you don't need the full power cartridges. Given that it's a last-ditch rifle mostly old men and kids would have used it. And given that those most likely fought in their own cities against unarmored targets they didn't need more range and stopping power. Guess most of them would have preferred a rifle where they didn't flinch because of the heavy recoil.
"This thing's doing decently enough, maybe we'll actually take this out to a match"
Oh Ian, never change, my man.
This is actually a real cool scout rifle concept. The detachable magazine, compatibility with STG mags. If only it had a smoother mauser type bolt.
It's surpising that they even considered producing a last ditch bolt action rifle in 8mm kurz, because they already had a shortage of the ammo and the mags. I'd assume that's probably one of the reasons production never picked up.
8mm kurz would have been the perfect cartridge to supply people with no prior training with. Not as much recoil as a 8mm mauser and not too little firepower than a 9mm would have in a rifle.
On the other hand though, the kurz round used less in the way of resources per cartridge.
@@jfess1911 Not really though. The whole premise of intermediate cartridges is that you can carry more ammo.
So it easily makes up for it in quantity.
@@kimjanek646 not so much in a shitty bolt action.
@@cptpayday2080 Did they ever make the G43 in Kurz calibre?
I like to imagine Ian just *always* has a Sturmgewehr magazine in his back pocket, just in case.
The tactical blue jeans of GunJesus are beyond the comprehension of us mere mortals
Some of the things coming out of Germany at the time are crude, yes. But man the ingenuity that went into them is fantastic. Many of them are as simple or even simpler than the MAS 36, which is really saying something.
Yep, although one can argue that the MAS 36 was still simplicity perfected in a bolt action infantry rifle of its time. The engineering that went into them, especially under such desperate conditions, is still something to admire and marvel.
@@Anino_Makata Oh agreed for sure
crude with high precision
MAS 36 was possibly the best military bolt action rifle ever produced. I’ve owned them all and I gotta say the MAS was the best of them all.
@@cancermcaids7688and unlimited slave Labour helps too
That thing is both ugly, and cool as hell, reminds me of those mini action bolt guns that take AR mags, like the ruger american
Never seen one of these before 👌
Or Ruger's Patrol Rifle, which is my favorite bolt gun right now.
It looks like a paratrooper take-down bolt-action that has been reassembled slightly wrong. I wonder if they deliberately made the metal look old and tarnished or if they were just working on it for a long time.
Mossberg MVPs great granddaddy.
@@AshleyPomeroy It looks like raw steel slathered in cosmoline. I've seen contemporary flareguns with that look.
I was idly wondering if something like this was done in 5.56 NATO using AR mags, but perhaps it's a bit too crude looking for a commercial release.
For old guys who were interested in WW2 reenactments, that rifle and a Volkssturm uniform would be an interesting addition and not look so out of place for older out of shape people.
When Ian doest realize he already got the spinner around because he was too busy fumbling with the bolt 7:24
Haha - yeah, I realized that when I edited the video together. :)
@@ForgottenWeapons you should do a video on time management, I don't know how you squeeze in everything you do and still make time for us commenters lol
Neat little rifle. Wouldn't inspire much confidence but it looks real handy.
With a little development I would run it as a ranch rifle.
I would not want to be in front of it.
I cringed so bad when I saw the Volk rifles in Vanguard in the North African campaign in 1941-1942. It was a last ditch weapon yet the Germans had them as standard weapons. Also the Japanese were using STG 44s and MG42s. You should react to the cringe historical inaccuracy in that game Ian.
BF5 is horrible too.
@joshuasitzema9920 There are some really bad things (some of the optics and the VG 1-5 being fullauto especially) but far removed from the fever dream that is vanguard (m1 Garand with a drum mag and ping...)
And it had a knuckle duster sten stock with a drum and optic
@@GIHDactually the full auto is correct. Theres a semi auto version in the game for level 20 assault and the full auto was very experimental irl
An early, crude version of the CZ 527 in 7.62x39. Intermediate power cartridge bolt guns are the bomb! I just wish mine took AK magazines.
No bolt guns suck
@@Perry2186 yeah, for shooters that have to "pray and spray" to hit anything.
@@Perry2186
No; bolt guns suck. Fixed it for you.
Intermediate cardridge in last dicth rifle doesnt sound too bad if your idea is fight relatively close
with untrained soldiers. Also those rifles today are nice things between rimfire and full power rifle
cardridges. But when it comes to backbag hiking rifle i dont see why sacrifice ergonomics
with full length ak banana.
When it comes to 10 rounders i guess CZ:t idea was to have reliable mag because you cant never
fully know will that beat to shit ak mag from banana/sand state work in your gun.
So quality control was active there.
@@Kesssuli alas, one of the issues with the 527 is that it takes a proprietary 5 round single stack magazine. A 10 round double stack AK magazine would not stick out any more. Still, it beats the Ruger American in 7.62x39. That gun takes mini-30 magazines which have a last round BHO which is not desirable in a bolt gun as it complicates single loading.
That's awesome, too bad they aren't available for sale. Something like that would make a neat addition to the collection. Definitely hoping you take this to a match.
Seems more like something you gunsmith at home yourself.
I was literally waiting for him to say where to get one, totally bummed when he said not available commercially
@@waynehindes3396 I am curious..if they are not available commercially..why are they beng MADE?
@@Armored_Muskrat or to sell to museums, that’s what I imagined.
As Ian got excited for turning over the spinner - it was actually the second time he did it. As always - great work Ian!!
The design with a little smoothing out could make a nice hunting/survivalist rifle. Especially if a newer variant was made in 7.62x39mm, 300 Blackout, or 5.7x28mm. You could put a night vision scope on it too for night hunting.
Thought the same thing. One of those in 7.62x39, 5.56 or Blackout would be a fun plinker.
The manufacturer did an excellent job on the finish - it really looks as if it was dragged out of a bunker recently!!
Oh man! What a neat rifle. I love fallout vibes and this rifle screams it! Who manufactured this and why isn't it in production? We need more 8mm Kurtz in our lives.
I Concur, good Sir!
Yes sir. But instead of 8 Kurtz, make it in 7.62x39. Uses AK mags. Great little deer rifle, great knock about truck rifle. Keep the price down, you'd sell a million!
Any small businesses could make these en masse. Modern tooling & machinenary should be affordable by now, right?
Elbonia's new service Rifle. I would be really interested to see how the 8mm Kurz performs in a match. It strikes me as similar to what the Soviets did with the 9x39mm cartridge except not sub-sonic. 8mm Kurz looks like it has a lot of kinetic energy transfer to target.
*Way* too good a rifle for Elbonia.
If you really want to screw them, gocr them the same rifle... but in 7.92x57mm (for more range and power, to offset the lower ROF, don't you know?), using dealer's choice of interwar LMG box magazines (Zb26, Polish Bren, MG13 whatever - equipping them with MG34 saddle.drums would be a tad TOO obvious a sabotage). Reinforce the receiver enough to be *safe* with the new chambering, but in interests of weight and cost savings, make no other changes that might add cost or weight (so, same barrel length, same stock, same barrel profile, etc.)
Or issue them the semiauto Volksgewehr in the original 8x33mmK round and StG44 magazines. But, "improve" it by adapting it to selective fire.
There is something utterly satisfying in the way Ian cycles the rifle with his right hand
I look forward to the match:) as soon as I heard the specs, my immediate thought was the modern descendent/equivalent is Mossberg's MVP Patrol scout rifle, it's chambered in a similar caliber (.308) same barrel length (16") and used magazines originally intended for semi auto rifles and widely available (Armilite .223 and .308)
This gun would be a strong seller in a market that has been overlooked. Every german reenactor, that's about 250.000 would buy one if it was on the market. Same go's for a MP3000-8 semi auto clone. With a mad rush on the ATF for form ones to make them SBR's.
Yeah, 250,000 who would *say* they'd love one, right up until they see what it'd cost to make one.
Then about 249,990 of them just kinda disappear.
That's kinda how it always goes any time someone comes out with a really niche whiz-bang repro product and doesn't have a large supply of demilled parts kits to build them on.
Very Cool Video Ian. This is one of my favorites recently. Amazing to see how a last ditch rifle could actually be pretty darn good.
Ian always makes me smile when he makes a right handed firearm work better when he uses his dominant hand to cycle it.
It's all a matter of practice
i honestly love this thing, a little more refinement and modern materials it would honestly be something that i would be interested in.
Ian I am a 49 year old man and that is one of the coolest guns I have ever seen. Sheet metal reciever with detachable high capacity magazines in that caliber with that barrel length. BTW I've been shooting all my life and owned hundreds of guns.
This is one of those "Load it on Sunday, shoot it through the week" sort of rifles
That's the coolest last ditch rifle I've ever seen.
The new Hi-Point bolt action!
I WISH this was available commercially, I'd love to have one of these as a nice plinker
when ammo prices for already existing .223 or 7.62x39 is not enough already.
Plus dont we already have ruger american and cz 527 to fill that demand ?
Replica for this crudely made outdated rifle with 8mm kurtz is not exacly smart or cheap.
Cool factor is thing but sometimes we had to choose something bit more practical.
But if money is not a problem then hell why not :D
The general silhouette with the 10 round magazine reminds me of a Keltec SU16. Minus the bolt handle of course
It'd be interesting to work up a subsonic 8mm Kurz round to pair with a integrally suppressed version of that rifle, similar to the DeLisle carbine.
Though I've only had a few rifles to shoot this far, this looks like such a fun experience. The most fun I've had yet was a little feisty Enfield carbine. Keep up the good work Ian
Having shot this a few years ago, video on the channel, and I can confirm it was a lot of fun to shoot.
Was the recoil pretty close to .223?
German 300 BO while recovering from an operation i started a reloading project for the new fad cartridge 300 BO while deep in the rabbit hole the versatility is amazing. And as a cartridge to reload, case life is pretty much endless. The only caution is the small shoulder will invert with ham handed bullet seating. 90-220 gr bullets with 20-22 grains of powder.
I love that nicely consistent ping after each shot.
At first when I saw it I wondered what Bloke could do with it as it looks a spiritual grandfather to frankenrifle but then you made that spinner dance so beautifully I doubt it would look any different, brilliant job Ian.
This demands a 9-Hole Review practical accuracy test!
With the 10 round magazine it has the look and feel of the ideal truck gun.
i would buy
It gets the job done, it's better then a sharp pointy stick.
U know at the start of the war the British home guards were told to put a kitchen knife on a brushshaft
That's wild!!! Bolt looks a lot like an Enfield Bolt.
I was about to post this. Looks like they kit-bashed together a bunch of ideas quickly and basically came up with a last ditch Lee-Enfield looking rifle.
@@Swarm509 Right? It's pretty zany hah.
I'd be interested in an analysis of the mechanics of what makes a trigger crunchy or comfortable or a bolt smooth or tight.
Mark Novak made a video about how the aluminum cooling fins inside the jacket of the chauchaut caused a lot of its jams. That kind of analysis is hard to find.
Yeah, it's also an understandable issue given the Chauchat was a crash program and it was the early years of using Al in firearms. Had the french known it was going to be an issue they might have designed the radiator differently or incorporated a forward assist of sorts.
Ian pulling a big Sturmgewehr magazine out of his pack pocket the way bugs bunny pulls out a giant mallet made me lol
What HMG Gunworks should have released in a last ditch effort to please its customers
When compared to the other last-ditch rifles that still required milling/forging, this seems like an incredibly fast build that'd also use less material to boot (assuming the stamping was good enough to not require much hand-fitting to run well. The AK-47 sure showed that getting stamping down well isn't exactly an easy thing)
@Erik Bowers True, but Germany was an expert at it. That's why the Russians brought them in after the war to help get the stampings right for the AK.
If it's sold at a reasonable price, I'd love to buy one up here in Canada. I know Ian said it wasn't for sale, but it's weird, ugly, doesn't work great and that makes me want one!
Thanks for sharing this part of weapon history!
Considering this was designed pretty much in parallel with the roller delayed StG45 prototype, I’m certain I would have preferred the StG for negligible difference in resources per rifle.
Having said that, I doubt a VolksSturm Truppen would outlast the need to reload a fresh magazine, especially on the Ostfront.
i really wonder how they managed to find raw materials and managed to carry them to a factory to built these all while the immense danger of being bombarded since the frontlines most likely werent that far, same with PPS43 which field testing would basically mean to give them to the guys a couple blocks away.
Something like that in 5.56 using AR mags would be a great little cheap survival rifle.
The Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 5.56x45mm/.223 Rem. Is designed to use STANAG magazines. Buy one if you can find one. You're welcome.
@@VanDaRifleman the mossberg mvp line too.
@@VanDaRifleman I was thinking more in terms of stamped steel and polymer furniture. Something really cheap, but still effective. I agree the ruger is a great little rifle.
@@GMdrivingMOPARguy it's a relatively affordable entry level rifle. It's a rifle so made and priced so that even a poor dude can own a centerfire rifle. It merely falls in the parameters of what the OC mentioned. Don't shoot the messenger, man.
@@GMdrivingMOPARguy don't forget that Ruger has excellent customer service. I've had a number of Ruger firearms that malfunctioned or had part failures due to hard usage and high round count, and every firearm that I sent back to Ruger for factory repairs was returned in great working order. I still like Ruger, even if you need to periodically get factory maintenance.
If that was commercially available I think I'd buy it. Even more so if they had a version in 5.56 and took STANAG/Magpul mags
Look at the Mossberg patrol rifle , in 223 or 300 Blk , Rugger make something like that too also in 7.62 X39 besides the previous cal.
I would love a sit down discussion and close up of the action and rifle. Very nice.
This is like medium tier firearm in a post-apocalyptic game. Like i feel you can "scrap it" and you get 2 wood and 2 metal.
A bolt action, magazine fed, iron sighted rifle firing an intermediate caliber!?
Now make some in modern calibers and modern mags and I’ll be in heaven
Mossberg MVP series
Oh, they don’t come with iron sight…at least mine did not
@@con6lex They have some with irons
I wish the Ruger scout was more available in 5.56 or 7.62x39
And not take those expensive Ruger Proprietary mags
@@Jays_video_watcher They're AI style mags, not Ruger only so there are alternatives.
I remember when there where talks of making Stg. 44 repros, in both .22 and 8mmK, and I was demanding VG repros. I just found them more interesting.
Hill & Mac Gunworks. I think about that failed project once a year or so. Was thinking about it last week.
I have a GSG STG-44 in .22LR. It's a fun gun pretty much and I mounted an ACOG clone on it, so I get some funny looks when I take it to the range. 🤣😂🤣😂
This is the idea Bill Ruger needed as a companion rifle to the 30 carbine Blackhawk. Basic bolt action that you could feed with M1 Carbine mags. Oh well, the ww2 surplus carbine ammo is gone, the moment has passed.
As the battles come closer to dense urban areas, longer barrels are unnecessary
I would submit that this reproduction is made with tolerances and fit way above of what could be done/expected in the closing days of the war.
Solid content
If these would have been fielded since early 1944, the german army could probably have more men on the frontline and with a better cartridge than OG 8mm. It's interesting to wonder what if. Amzing video as always Ian!
Not a lot, a slightly more numerous, but still thoroughly obsolete infantry small arm isn't going to make much difference.
You know it's the best Saturday when Ian McCollum & Jonathan Ferguson released a new video today
I've been thinking a lot recently about how cool a little, bolt action,carbine in 7.62x39 would be. Either with AK mags or an internal mag taking SKS stripper clips. Low an behold, the Germans thought the same.
Bloke on the Range has his Frankenrifle, I believe an SMLE with an AK mag and other stuff.
Another awesome video Ian! You are a genius in finding these and research you put into it! Man, you are a treasure.
God bless all here
Now thats a video I'm very happy to see pop up in my notifications 👍🏻
i would love to see a full review of this rifle, keep up the good work Ian!
Genuinely surprised this piece of scrap metal could outlast the pressure generated by 8mm Mauser back then.
Very Interesting stuff, as always, Ian. Thank you for all your hard work and passion for interesting firearms
30 round bolt action? Neat. Very unique
that would be a sick little gun if it was made to modern standards and chambered in 7.62x39.
"Insight in their manufacturing techniques..." Hans grab that school desk and any sheet of steel we have left!
Amazing that you found a reproduction!
Now imagine this rifle but with enfield action or manlicher with 30 mag, damn and now make it into legit quality and that would have been quite good rifle for begining of the war
Always loved your videos, Ian. Thanks to Forgotten Weapons team
Man these field vids give me such a mid and late 2000s and early 2010s vibe i love it!
Look like something out of the Metro games.
I love the ingenuity and simplicity of some of these last ditch guns. Like, we have a cartrid and magazine, but need to make it go boom; Hold my pilsner
A production model in 7.62x39mm would make sense. Similar ballistics and easy to get ammo for.
Nice,thanks for sharing this and to be part of the recreation of odd things.
One suggestion is for your camera person to set the camera to Aperture Priority with a high F-stop (e.g. f/22). This will provided a virtually infinite depth of field so the gun & target will both be in focus. And in bright sunlight the ISO shouldn't be to high or the exposure less than 1/60th of a second.
Aperture is typically fixed on phones, however, which is mostly what is used for "in the field" content as far as I can tell.
speaking of things in 8mm Kurz, what ever happened to HMG and their sturmgewher? I see plenty of people ranting and raging about them, but no real information on what all happened. would like to see a video on your thoughts and maybe some information.
I'm kind of surprised they bothered to have trials for last ditch Rifles.
I wish 8x33 had garnered some popularity over the years. Also that cocking piece is tickling my lee Enfield fancy.
I find 7.62×35mm to be an excellent successor.
Unless I missed it you never mentioned who made this reproduction. I’d love to look into the company more.
"Not avaliable commercially unfortunately" is what he said about the company
I'm betting Ian was asked not to reveal the maker.
If the person involved in making that rifle was interested in making more, he or she would have WANTED that info out there. Since it has been withheld, i am betting it is by design.
Ian, I do think if you're used to it, and it's reasonably well maintained, you'll be able to actually place reasonably well up against the other bolt rifles.
Cycling that bolt and firing is ASMR material
We need a simple last ditch gun, let's trial and adopt three different types from as many manufacturers, be sure to offer them in alternate caliber and make special magazines for testing, we're all about reducing resources here. Any wonder they didn't just lose, but were thumped. Thanks for the video.
There's a WW2 book regarding a German Wehrmacht soldier of French descent from Alsae or Lorraine. Nearing the end of WW2 they were on retreat from Stalingrad redeployed to defend then Prussian states in Germany.
He said the local peoples self defence units were almost universally armed a semi auto variant in this 8x33 caliber.
And Panzerfausts. Was a really good idea because the steamrolling Red Army killed civilians and German soldiers alike.
Only by the time of the retreat from Stalingrad (early 1943) directly to Prussia (early 1945) can we conclude that either you or the author of this book wrote this under the influence of crack. This is not even taking into account the fact that the author of such a fantasy is a French volunteer (and such were recruited into the SS, not the Wehrmacht), and listening to stories about relations with civilians from such persons is the last thing
Hey Ian can you please do a mud and or sand test on the 1886 winchester? You haven't done a mud test on a lever action rifle since the henry repeating rifle. I think the 1886 is a good idea because it has stronger locking blocks than the henry repeating rifle. Thanks.
Do you know… the Soviets were originally gonna have a bolt action rifle in 7.62 x 41 mm / 39 mm for the rear eschelon troops, but ended up abandoning it because of automatic guns in that then new caliber being the major trend and making a bolt action in a smaller caliber is stupid for combat. So it’s just the SKS, RPD, and the AK.
I used to carry one of these bad boys during my service with the Exhibition station fighting against dark ones
I would definitely buy it to have in my collection!
Very cool. Go for a match. What would limit to be put into production? Maybe, AR mag in 300blk? Or a 22 that the mag is cosmetic. How robust is the action/reciever? Could be popular with WW2 collectors & gamers also.
From Ian's cam, I must admit that this repro does have a very smooth & pleasing sound signature. Plenty of Oomph to it!
What an awesome little rifle! I think the crunchy bolt would probably be a little easier to use for a right hooker though.
Oh god if they ever make this in 7.62x39 and accept AK mags I would buy it with out question (assuming the price is reasonable)
Enfield cocking piece, 91 mauser bolt, 98k style barrel, stg44/45 receiver and stock. Frankenstein at work.
I kinda want to see a version of this that's not quite as crude and easier to operate. It honestly looks like it would be a handy little field rifle.
To bad it’s not available commercially. Looks like it could be an economical fun pig gun for central Texas!
Great content as always. This channel is like an armorer’s course!
i would buy it.
Definitely would like to see this in a match! 👍
So this was the a last-ditch design that they didn't get around to making. Does that mean that this is a back-up gun? BUG match time!