I have been considering that maybe we are getting to a point where maybe we don't need Ad Naus in this list since the deck is beginning leaning more and more into a control list, perhaps cutting Ad Naus and some of the rituals to lean more on our Rhystic Study type cards and commanders for advantage that turns us into a dedicated midrange control list. I've played against this list a lot and played with it some myself and Ad Naus felt like a crutch, even when cast at the correct moment in the game. Since more of the pices don't fit into the turbo plan anymore, the Ad Naus seemed to be subpar and I don't think I've seen many wins off of it recently in these lists because people are drawing more control cards and not enough of the turbo cards to be able to close out the game.
I definitely think there's a strong argument for it. Currently the power level of naus is high enough where I feel like it's still warranted but I wouldn't label anyone as being strictly incorrect for not running it
Naus can just be treated less greedily. Draw 10 cards, stop at 15 life. Have the tools to stop your opponents and win next turn. Or find dockside and displacer kitten and do that
@alanschellenberger9356 absolutely, less greedy Ad Naus might be the correct play going forward if people decide to play it. But cEDH players get REAL greedy and I suspect most people won't stop that soon haha
@alanschellenberger9356 absolutely, I agree. I was mostly just trying to point out in that scenario it would be up the the player to change behavior and that's almost harder than it is to update deck lists is all. I'm not a Blue Farm player typically so I'm just speculating 😊
Super succinct, well reasoned, downright eloquent. That was ton of information packed into a short span of time but it was so presented so well. Great video, no notes 🤌🏼🤌🏼
Holy shit. Just as good of a video as I expected. Coval was the reason I started playing Blue Farm. I've even gone as far as to cut Ad Naus from my list for cards like The One Ring and Sheoldred. I guess it's time for me to learn how to mulligan.
Hello there I've been playing U farm for a bit more than 3 years now and won my fare share of tourneys where I live (Chile) including the national tournament that took place this last 28th of October and wanted to share some thoughts about our meta and U farm in relation to this vid. I've played Ad Naus these whole 3 years and never been disappointed with it, it just win games. at the beginning I've gotta say that i also piloted it like a turbo list playing cards like Rain of Filth, the 3 main wheels (which now I've completely disregarded the last one being WoF) Ragavan and the like realizing that yes, they're were great cards pre and post naus, but when you had to take a different route because your life was too low or there were too many stax pieces (winota was a thing at some point of our meta) so you couldn't naus they became dead draws in the mid to late game (I drew Rain of Filth too many times in the mid late were I was hoping for an answer and got this dead ritual) the meta was slowly shifting and farm decks became more popular, I stopped playing Ragavan, DRC, Gilded Drake, Dauthi V. some of them were meta calls, others were personal choices (such as Dauthi which seems good against other farm decks but I don't like to play by revealing information besides not being a good tymna attacker despite having shadow if you really wanted to make the most of it making people play around it) the meta continued to shift even more and Kinnan and Tivit became very popular decks, (winota made a small come back) times were a had to slot a Containment Priest just to mainly stop kinnans and winotas (as well as other stuff that you would see less of but that were there such as Emiel loops and Kenrith shenanigans) meanwhile u farm was becoming the all star deck most people played because of its efficiency, consistency and being so resilient. the national tourney day came and I decided to slot Red Blast and Pyro which I gotta say was the best decision I ever made with blue farm being so popular, Kinnans and Tivits running wild and soooo many clone effects. 2 of the 3 games I won in the swiz rounds were due to main phase Nauses and the other thanks to Breach. the final was a festival of draw engines, bowmasters and clones (Najeela, Tymna Malcolm, Kenrith and U farm, me) what I'm trying to say here is that my deck is constructed to win through a main phase Naus without any mana left but can grind into the mid to late game cutting the dead draws to a minimum which is part of what you said here and if I gotta say I agree with it being a esper deck splashing red and both being an all in turbo naus deck, I think I would make the case of, my deck at least, being a very efficient turbo naus deck that can pivot efficiently into the mid to late game (I know this comment sounded more like a wanted to share or showcase how good I am especially at the beginning with the comments about me winning many tourneys but I isn't meant to be that at all, just wanted to share my thoughts cause I love this deck so much, been piloting it since it feels like forever and believed your videos, especially this one have so many interesting takes that I could comment on, maybe not directly but through my experience playing it) great content as usual Mod, keep it up ❤
My win rate with Blue Farm went WAY up as soon as I pivoted away from a faster build into a deck that really reflects my play with a pseudo-Dawnwaker build -- value and control. My current build is way more fun to play, mulligans better, and is not only more resilient but more successful. Leaving behind more of the rituals in favor of interaction/draw means that we're gaining more advantage the deeper the game goes as our card quality goes up.
I was like "wow, they've put such a harsh name for the video", but I see now what's your point, why this title. Excellent vídeo anyway. The examples were very nice.
I find your last comparison of blue farm being esper control splashing red really funny because my blue farm was adapted from my esper control deck that was previously twin tymnas. I thought twin tymna was too slow and played things like Rick Steadfast leader, Elesh Norn GC, and Grand Arbiter. I won a lot locally with it but it was slow and ad naus was only getting me maybe 15-25 cards deep without a 100% guaranteed win. I ended up switching to blue farm just because I had a matching foil etched kraum and had just borderless dockside lol so I've been running it basically as esper control the whole time but it makes me wonder if I should cut some rituals and aim for more of a rule of law game plan seeing how popular thoracle is.
Tymna kraum is a big upgrade to two tymnas for sure! Imo thoracle is MUCH stronger than any rule of law deck so my advice would to just be the more adept thoracls player
@Jon-od3oj LED you could technically do without because you have Lotus Petal for your Breach Freeze line but it's much more difficult It's not the world's best ad nauseam deck but I'd be keen on replacing it with another similar draw engine like the one ring, peer into the abyss or something Both pieces not necessary per se but I'd advise proxying both
When I started cedh I kinda hated ad naus deck. I come from a standard in which abzan control was a thing. I wanted to play something like that. Staxs actually fit the niche back then. Now I am going back and forth between t&K, kinnan or sisay. I come from a high power ghave deck which looks like combo deck to most, but it is a grindy midrange list that can pivot to a fast plan and an almost cedh green deck right now as the thing I am most versed with. Suddenly blue farm looks so fucking good. It is that sissay and the fact you win without casting spells entices me so much. None the less I feel that T&K is the closest thing we have to stax nowadays. Or at least this kind of is the only deck that you can play stax card in with the most effect. Yeah I know tayum exists, t&k is better.
T&k definitely leagues beyond Tayam. Tivit is also a solid shell for esper control pieces buy having access to intuition lines in sans green is just so good
@@ModAnonMTG I know about tivit. Honestly the a+b combo is very enticing. However, if I was going there I would probably go Atraxa because A is one of my favorite designs and B I feel she provides more? Am I thinking it wrong? Atraxa feels like tivit to me. you stay accumulate resources control the board, then you resolve your commander and then accumulate even more value. Honestly I have no one to ask that but those two feel close to me. P.S. I love you bragging about teaching mulligans in BoshNRoll. I love the guy. His insight of the game and attitude are amazing. And the fact that he still humble enough after all this years and doesn't afraid to ask for help, so how much he values good mentors like you.
@hellNo116 imo Tivit has a lot over atraxa because it has a much more well defined gameplan. T1 urza's saga is a t3 j lotus that puts tivit into play and if you have time sieve in your hand you can just win with the treasures tivit gives you instantly. In my experience Tivit is a good turn or 2 faster on the clock and a lot more consistent. I think tivit is a little less value-oriented than you might be thinking. It provides card draw and clues but the way you leverage it is that every top deck tutor is now a wincon for the deck that only needs 1 card to win with its commander. Brian's a great guy, amazing player, glad I got to help him get his feet wet in the cedh world!
@@ModAnonMTG gets his feet wet-> wins first tournament :P yeah what you say makes total sense. I feel that this is my bias towards atraxa here. I do believe that I will like tivit more than bluefarm just because I like 2 to 3 color decks more than 4 and 5. it feels that every 4 and 5 color deck is a 3 color deck with a couple extra cards thrown in. The 3 color decks feel they have a really defined identity right now. the packages are more consistent. it ties to what you said in your video. that t&k turned from a grixis deck splashing white to a esper deck splashing red. good now I have the decks I want to sleeve up. I only have to find 2 to 3 other players to play cedh now. living in greece in a challenge. I might have met every single person that plays commander in my city at this point :p
@hellNo116 I feel the same way in regards to 3c mana based vs 4c. Red is obviously super powerful but being able to cast all your spells maybe even more powerful! Have you tried playing in any of the international cedh servers on discord? We have a fair amount of Europeans in the mod Anon patreon discord that play fairly regularly
Having played on the largest EU tournament recently (Pirate chest 2 in Portugal), I can agree. I've seen the same player kill himself TWICE with a midgame Wheel. It is not only what you say. Additionally, it's largely in part because people are just not that great at understanding decks - because they copy them. They go online and copy an existing list. They can play it OK, but not "great". Additionally, most players have poor threat assesment. People do not identify Tymna as an S tier threat, despite the fact it draws 2 if not more cards each turn without spending additional resources. I've been saying Esper Sentinel might be *the* best card in cEDH for years now and nobody really listened. But it really is. It is hard to find a piece that costs so little, doesn't get taxed (because it's a creature) and will draw you so many cards. Blue farm is a midrange grindy powerhouse. It's extremely hard to shut it down. That is why it shines. You are on point!
I have been considering that maybe we are getting to a point where maybe we don't need Ad Naus in this list since the deck is beginning leaning more and more into a control list, perhaps cutting Ad Naus and some of the rituals to lean more on our Rhystic Study type cards and commanders for advantage that turns us into a dedicated midrange control list. I've played against this list a lot and played with it some myself and Ad Naus felt like a crutch, even when cast at the correct moment in the game. Since more of the pices don't fit into the turbo plan anymore, the Ad Naus seemed to be subpar and I don't think I've seen many wins off of it recently in these lists because people are drawing more control cards and not enough of the turbo cards to be able to close out the game.
I definitely think there's a strong argument for it. Currently the power level of naus is high enough where I feel like it's still warranted but I wouldn't label anyone as being strictly incorrect for not running it
Naus can just be treated less greedily. Draw 10 cards, stop at 15 life. Have the tools to stop your opponents and win next turn.
Or find dockside and displacer kitten and do that
@alanschellenberger9356 absolutely, less greedy Ad Naus might be the correct play going forward if people decide to play it. But cEDH players get REAL greedy and I suspect most people won't stop that soon haha
@@jukaiforest well and the deck has the tools to make that work. All it takes is breach and a tutor
@alanschellenberger9356 absolutely, I agree. I was mostly just trying to point out in that scenario it would be up the the player to change behavior and that's almost harder than it is to update deck lists is all. I'm not a Blue Farm player typically so I'm just speculating 😊
Tymna Kraum is an Esper Control deck that splashes red. YES! So well-said.
Thanks Ken! Appreciate you watching!
Esper is truly the superior color
man there are SO many outdated videos and guides referring to this as a turbo naus deck so THANK YOU for this video
Super succinct, well reasoned, downright eloquent. That was ton of information packed into a short span of time but it was so presented so well. Great video, no notes 🤌🏼🤌🏼
Thanks a bunch, that's very kind :)!!
love these thought pieces!
Holy shit. Just as good of a video as I expected. Coval was the reason I started playing Blue Farm. I've even gone as far as to cut Ad Naus from my list for cards like The One Ring and Sheoldred. I guess it's time for me to learn how to mulligan.
Those cards are bad even in the nausless version of the deck. Griefer farm all the way
Hello there
I've been playing U farm for a bit more than 3 years now and won my fare share of tourneys where I live (Chile) including the national tournament that took place this last 28th of October and wanted to share some thoughts about our meta and U farm in relation to this vid.
I've played Ad Naus these whole 3 years and never been disappointed with it, it just win games. at the beginning I've gotta say that i also piloted it like a turbo list playing cards like Rain of Filth, the 3 main wheels (which now I've completely disregarded the last one being WoF) Ragavan and the like realizing that yes, they're were great cards pre and post naus, but when you had to take a different route because your life was too low or there were too many stax pieces (winota was a thing at some point of our meta) so you couldn't naus they became dead draws in the mid to late game (I drew Rain of Filth too many times in the mid late were I was hoping for an answer and got this dead ritual)
the meta was slowly shifting and farm decks became more popular, I stopped playing Ragavan, DRC, Gilded Drake, Dauthi V. some of them were meta calls, others were personal choices (such as Dauthi which seems good against other farm decks but I don't like to play by revealing information besides not being a good tymna attacker despite having shadow if you really wanted to make the most of it making people play around it)
the meta continued to shift even more and Kinnan and Tivit became very popular decks, (winota made a small come back) times were a had to slot a Containment Priest just to mainly stop kinnans and winotas (as well as other stuff that you would see less of but that were there such as Emiel loops and Kenrith shenanigans) meanwhile u farm was becoming the all star deck most people played because of its efficiency, consistency and being so resilient.
the national tourney day came and I decided to slot Red Blast and Pyro which I gotta say was the best decision I ever made with blue farm being so popular, Kinnans and Tivits running wild and soooo many clone effects. 2 of the 3 games I won in the swiz rounds were due to main phase Nauses and the other thanks to Breach.
the final was a festival of draw engines, bowmasters and clones (Najeela, Tymna Malcolm, Kenrith and U farm, me)
what I'm trying to say here is that my deck is constructed to win through a main phase Naus without any mana left but can grind into the mid to late game cutting the dead draws to a minimum which is part of what you said here and if I gotta say I agree with it being a esper deck splashing red and both being an all in turbo naus deck, I think I would make the case of, my deck at least, being a very efficient turbo naus deck that can pivot efficiently into the mid to late game (I know this comment sounded more like a wanted to share or showcase how good I am especially at the beginning with the comments about me winning many tourneys but I isn't meant to be that at all, just wanted to share my thoughts cause I love this deck so much, been piloting it since it feels like forever and believed your videos, especially this one have so many interesting takes that I could comment on, maybe not directly but through my experience playing it)
great content as usual Mod, keep it up ❤
Fantastic take. My favorite video of yours so far
very cool video!
My win rate with Blue Farm went WAY up as soon as I pivoted away from a faster build into a deck that really reflects my play with a pseudo-Dawnwaker build -- value and control. My current build is way more fun to play, mulligans better, and is not only more resilient but more successful. Leaving behind more of the rituals in favor of interaction/draw means that we're gaining more advantage the deeper the game goes as our card quality goes up.
That is because nobody plays my version called Spinefarm...it must be the reason right?
Haha wait holdup link me to spine farm in the discord I wanna see
I was like "wow, they've put such a harsh name for the video", but I see now what's your point, why this title. Excellent vídeo anyway. The examples were very nice.
Lmao sorry yeah not trying to be mean, just trying to grab people's attention 😊!
Glad you enjoyed thanks for watching!
Hey, where can I find a proper decklist which isn´t outdatet?
I find your last comparison of blue farm being esper control splashing red really funny because my blue farm was adapted from my esper control deck that was previously twin tymnas. I thought twin tymna was too slow and played things like Rick Steadfast leader, Elesh Norn GC, and Grand Arbiter. I won a lot locally with it but it was slow and ad naus was only getting me maybe 15-25 cards deep without a 100% guaranteed win. I ended up switching to blue farm just because I had a matching foil etched kraum and had just borderless dockside lol so I've been running it basically as esper control the whole time but it makes me wonder if I should cut some rituals and aim for more of a rule of law game plan seeing how popular thoracle is.
Tymna kraum is a big upgrade to two tymnas for sure!
Imo thoracle is MUCH stronger than any rule of law deck so my advice would to just be the more adept thoracls player
So which list is best to go with?
Im just building this deck and trying to learn to pilot it
Welcome to blue farm! Hope this video is helpful!
I have a list but i dont have led nor ad naus.... is it a must
@Jon-od3oj LED you could technically do without because you have Lotus Petal for your Breach Freeze line but it's much more difficult
It's not the world's best ad nauseam deck but I'd be keen on replacing it with another similar draw engine like the one ring, peer into the abyss or something
Both pieces not necessary per se but I'd advise proxying both
When I started cedh I kinda hated ad naus deck. I come from a standard in which abzan control was a thing. I wanted to play something like that. Staxs actually fit the niche back then. Now I am going back and forth between t&K, kinnan or sisay.
I come from a high power ghave deck which looks like combo deck to most, but it is a grindy midrange list that can pivot to a fast plan and an almost cedh green deck right now as the thing I am most versed with.
Suddenly blue farm looks so fucking good. It is that sissay and the fact you win without casting spells entices me so much. None the less I feel that T&K is the closest thing we have to stax nowadays. Or at least this kind of is the only deck that you can play stax card in with the most effect. Yeah I know tayum exists, t&k is better.
T&k definitely leagues beyond Tayam. Tivit is also a solid shell for esper control pieces buy having access to intuition lines in sans green is just so good
@@ModAnonMTG I know about tivit. Honestly the a+b combo is very enticing. However, if I was going there I would probably go Atraxa because A is one of my favorite designs and B I feel she provides more? Am I thinking it wrong? Atraxa feels like tivit to me. you stay accumulate resources control the board, then you resolve your commander and then accumulate even more value. Honestly I have no one to ask that but those two feel close to me.
P.S. I love you bragging about teaching mulligans in BoshNRoll. I love the guy. His insight of the game and attitude are amazing. And the fact that he still humble enough after all this years and doesn't afraid to ask for help, so how much he values good mentors like you.
@hellNo116 imo Tivit has a lot over atraxa because it has a much more well defined gameplan. T1 urza's saga is a t3 j lotus that puts tivit into play and if you have time sieve in your hand you can just win with the treasures tivit gives you instantly.
In my experience Tivit is a good turn or 2 faster on the clock and a lot more consistent. I think tivit is a little less value-oriented than you might be thinking. It provides card draw and clues but the way you leverage it is that every top deck tutor is now a wincon for the deck that only needs 1 card to win with its commander.
Brian's a great guy, amazing player, glad I got to help him get his feet wet in the cedh world!
@@ModAnonMTG gets his feet wet-> wins first tournament :P
yeah what you say makes total sense. I feel that this is my bias towards atraxa here. I do believe that I will like tivit more than bluefarm just because I like 2 to 3 color decks more than 4 and 5. it feels that every 4 and 5 color deck is a 3 color deck with a couple extra cards thrown in. The 3 color decks feel they have a really defined identity right now. the packages are more consistent. it ties to what you said in your video. that t&k turned from a grixis deck splashing white to a esper deck splashing red.
good now I have the decks I want to sleeve up. I only have to find 2 to 3 other players to play cedh now. living in greece in a challenge. I might have met every single person that plays commander in my city at this point :p
@hellNo116 I feel the same way in regards to 3c mana based vs 4c.
Red is obviously super powerful but being able to cast all your spells maybe even more powerful!
Have you tried playing in any of the international cedh servers on discord? We have a fair amount of Europeans in the mod Anon patreon discord that play fairly regularly
Having played on the largest EU tournament recently (Pirate chest 2 in Portugal), I can agree. I've seen the same player kill himself TWICE with a midgame Wheel.
It is not only what you say. Additionally, it's largely in part because people are just not that great at understanding decks - because they copy them. They go online and copy an existing list. They can play it OK, but not "great".
Additionally, most players have poor threat assesment. People do not identify Tymna as an S tier threat, despite the fact it draws 2 if not more cards each turn without spending additional resources. I've been saying Esper Sentinel might be *the* best card in cEDH for years now and nobody really listened. But it really is. It is hard to find a piece that costs so little, doesn't get taxed (because it's a creature) and will draw you so many cards.
Blue farm is a midrange grindy powerhouse. It's extremely hard to shut it down. That is why it shines. You are on point!
"You are playing magic wrong" ended up being a much longer video so I figured I'd start here 🤣
And, everyone, that's why you kill Kraum if you can.
It Will be nice a New video post bans
You mean the lamest.
I mean the one that statistically wins the most often!
You're making videos wrong, rethink your life and go find some meaning
Lmao appreciate the comment