Mozart: 1756-1791 then Beethoven: 1770-1827 it's less than a century, then Chopin, Schubert, Liszt, Ravel, Shostakovitch, Stravinsky, Bartok, etc depending on what you consider (piano, symphony, innovation).
@@littleredwitch o, made me laugh so much. Didn't notice it until you pointed it out. The devil's in the detail. Felt the presence of Mozart's madcap humour in your comment 😂😂😂
@@geofpawlicki2984 - Check out recordings of Mendelsson's Konzertstück, Op. 86 for 4 horns. Berlin Philharmone made a great recording when Gerd Seifert was Principal Horn of the Berlin Philhamonic - stunningly superiour, in fact!!
Every composition from Mozart is from other world... even the first ones that might reveal some inexperience have something that others don't have: transcendence, irreverence, innovation and a unique mark of his genius personality
@@GoldinDr Yes, and 36 & 38 are the overture. And think about it: this still wasnt his end by far. Those just was the begining of his middle age phase. Then he died. Can you imagine what he would have given us in the rest of his middle age phase, let alone his late age?
È pura classicità anticipatrice di romanticismo. Sentimento apollineo unito a sentire romantico. Le note del secondo movimento infondono nel ❤️ un sentimento dolcissimo.
Desde mi adolescencia escuche las sinfonias de Mozart dirigidas por Bohm y me resulta dificil escucharlas por otros directores. Bohm suena perfecto para mi.
Late Mozart goes so hard. It is 100% proto-Romanticism. A world away from early Mozart and Haydn. Ironically, in going forward, he took more and more influence from Baroque music, which made his music deeper and more complex. There is so much counterpoint in this, for example. Had he lived longer, he may have developed perhaps not into a Beethoven, but into something morel like a Schumann. He did not have the brutally harsh life that made Beethoven, well, Beethoven.
Impresionante interpretacion de Mozart, con Bhom,esta interpretacion junto con la de Klemperer,para mi son las mejores,la de klemperer posiblemente sea mas aspera,pero las 2 son impresionantes
Avec cette symphonie, Mozart achève les 3 symphonies consacrées aux 3 grades de la Franc- Maçonnerie. Le Compagnon qui a péri par le feu a disparu, et un nouveau Maître va naître en chambre du Milieu où sont réunis tous les Maîtres. Se dirigeant vers l'Orient, il y reçoit la force des Sages exprimée par le 3ème mouvement. L'Allegro final témoigne de la joie intense de cet événement exceptionnel.
@Jeb Clar C'est pitoyable !! Mozart est un génie , c'est pour cela qu'il est aimé partout dans le monde ,il y a tout dans sa musique ,la joie ,la tristesse , le sublime , il parle à l'âme ,au coeur ,il enchante !! Vous manquez de finesse , c'est le moins qu'on puisse dire , je vous plains d'être un si piètre humain ! Vous citez des noms ,beaucoup de noms de musiciens pour étaler votre soit disant culture ,mais plus on l'étale ,moins on en a !! Pauvre petit bonhomme !!!!
are there any surviving recordings of Furtwangler conducting this symphony? if there are ,I have been unable to find them. I would appreciate some help.
No, but there are 39 and 40, though 40 was once in question. And a Gran Partita and Eine Kleine. And piano concerti 20 and 22, with Yvonne Lefébure and Paul Badura-skoda, respectively. The 39 is a favorite of mine.
...un piccolo enigma ...sono i musicisti philarrmoniker o è il direttore..?!!! … E poi, serve il direttore…..? la leggenda è realta', sono i berliner philarmonoker ..solo loro decidono il direttore…. e Karajan è stato scelto… Correva il 1972..rai 1 trsmetteva tutte le sinfonie di Beethoven, un Karajan maturo nel pieno del suo magistero...ma se non avesse avuto i berliner? idem per k. boehm… Scusate , sono facezie, una volta c'erano i salotti letterario musicali e quantaltro, oggi questo marchingegno diabolico, per comunicare…. io ho un po' di nostalgia...avrei voluto scrivere con calamaio e inchiostro e polvere assorbente. un saluto fraterno a tutti.
SE TI INTERESSA I SALOTTI MUSICALI, I CALAMAI ,E LE PENNE D OCA ,CI SONO ANCORA, E SI POSSONO UTILIZZARE. SEI ANCORA IN TEMPO AD ANDARE A FARE UN TUFFO NEL PASSATO SENZA NESSUN PROBLEMA, INTANTO CHE CI SEI TI FERMI DAL DROGHIERE A PRENDERE IL PANE E MAGARI PURE A CREDITO COME FACEVANO LE MASSAIE NEGLI ANNI 80 . QUESTI AGGEGGI TECNOLOGICI È MEGLIO CHE LI USANO LE PERSONE CHE GLI PIACCIONO. PS. QUI NON DIRIGE K.B ,MA O.KLEMPERER HAI ABBOCCATO COME UN POLLASTRO . CIAO E RICORDATI CHE LE PIANTE SI TAGLIANO A BASSO
Further to period instrument recordings having nowadays usurped big band sounding Mozart, Bohm's famous set of recordings were always a dependable go to in comparison with other 60's/70's orchestras. His 41st is, in my view, exceedingly grounded and even too, granitic in the style of Klemperer, while being a much better reading than Bernstein's overrated and uninspiring 1984 account - despite its penguin rosette...Yes, I know that I'm defying the critics regarding Lenny's lauded VPO recording, but I find it to be staid and boring in comparison with this!
Love ' big band' Mozart, not least because in those days they didn't drag these symphonies out to ridiculous length by using every conceivable repeat...there are versions of this that last over 40 minutes...BORING!!!
Does anybody know if the exposition in part I is supposed to be repeated or not? I've listened to recordings of Karl Böhm, Herbert von Karajan, Günter Wand, and they all go directly to the development, without repeating the exposition. This sounds strange to me, like they were in a hurry to get it over with and go home faster. Neville Marriner, on the other hand, repeats the exposition, like one would expect. What gives? Does the score actually not mention the repetition of the exposition? Did Mozart really intend it not to be repeated?
It was common to cut the repeats in the vinyl LP era because the conducting was usually slower then and they were trying to fit the music onto as few of discs as possible. Compare the tempo throughout this performance to the tempo of the Trevor Pinnock recording (also on my channel). You'll notice that while the tempo is slower here, the whole symphony clocks in at a total of 27:08. The Pinnock recording has much faster tempos, but clocks in at 39:34.
Mozart absolutely intended it to be repeated and not doing so is a crime in my opinion. Totally throws off the classical balance, we need to spend that extra time with the main thematic material. And Mozart, more than other composers, lives more in the exposition than in the development.
@oppie47: I see. That makes sense. Thank you. That unfortunately means that I may never find a complete (that is, not mutilated) recording to my liking, considering that my favourite conductors are Günter Wand and Karl Böhm, who happened to live at the pinnacle of the vinyl era. :-( @von Ditters: Indeed, that's exactly my feeling, that the work is somehow unbalanced without the repetition. I thought it was just me. Thank you.
Not only does Bohm cut the repeat exposition in the first movement, but there is a repeat in the second movement and two repeats in the last movement missing. If you'd like to hear a recording with all the repeats, try Leinsdorf's with the Boston Symphony Orchestra.
There isn't really a rule to repeat. However, Mozart wrote it down because it was common to repeat the exposition at that time. You can see it in sonatas and other pieces too. Now it's up to the player or conductor to choose if the exposition is repeated or not.
In my personal opinion, I think that Bohm takes Mozart painfully slowly. I think it takes away the excitement of the piece, especially the fugal finale. I much prefer (and recommend) recordings by other great personnel such as Neville Marriner, Sir Colin Davis and Jeffrey Tate.
Was Bohm on valium half the time or something? That minuet could be danced by 100 year olds. Even 1.25 speed is a little too slow. The finale at 1.25 speed is a true "molto allegro," although maybe closer to a presto, but better than what he is doing here. Meet some composers and you'll find they often tend to prefer hearing things on the fast side (or that's how they hear it in their heads), and I'm sure in Mozart's case, that was even more so, considering the level of his genius.
The first movement of this symphony is the single most boring opening I've ever heard from any composer, the same repetitive chromatisms Mozart has written for 154537388 other pieces. The fugue in the finale is not touching any of Bach's or the fugue in Beethoven's 9th Symphony.
Gould was of course mad when he said that about Mozart. Such nonentities like Gould stand no comparison whatsoever with such an immortal genius like Mozart!
The best versión ever
Karl Boehm / Mozart:
An outstanding combination, culminated in symphonies 40 & 41
This work is not just a masterpiece.
Mozart wrote a history it self !!
What a genius he was.
"Prosterity will not see such a talent as his for the next hundred years". Joseph Haydn. Two hundred and counting......?
❤️ except it is posterity. Typo I’m sure.
Mozart: 1756-1791 then Beethoven: 1770-1827 it's less than a century, then Chopin, Schubert, Liszt, Ravel, Shostakovitch, Stravinsky, Bartok, etc depending on what you consider (piano, symphony, innovation).
For raw talent, Felix Mendelssohn. . .
@@littleredwitch o, made me laugh so much. Didn't notice it until you pointed it out. The devil's in the detail. Felt the presence of Mozart's madcap humour in your comment 😂😂😂
@@geofpawlicki2984 - Check out recordings of Mendelsson's Konzertstück, Op. 86 for 4 horns. Berlin Philharmone made a great recording when Gerd Seifert was Principal Horn of the Berlin Philhamonic - stunningly superiour, in fact!!
Es la mejor versión que he podido escuchar, de la sinfonia numero 41 J Jupiter de Mozart, y el el Molto Allegro final es impresionante... bravo !!!!!
Beautiful Performance ! Bravo KARL BÖHM !
One of Mozarts best works.
The best work !
THE BEST
the ABSOLUTE best.
@@MakeUDawn I agree with you
Yes. The LAST THREE symphonies are certainly amazing. I do have a special love of #35 "Haffner", as well.
My favorite Mozart Symphony
40 and 41 seem other worldly to me. Mozart was on a plane even he had never achieved.
And apparently he wrote his 39, 40 and 41st really fast. Wow, so beautiful
@@Caroline1261 I think of them as one mega-symphony, actually.
He was older, that's all, which means he was mature. Had he lived more, more music like that would have been composed
Every composition from Mozart is from other world... even the first ones that might reveal some inexperience have something that others don't have: transcendence, irreverence, innovation and a unique mark of his genius personality
@@GoldinDr Yes, and 36 & 38 are the overture.
And think about it: this still wasnt his end by far. Those just was the begining of his middle age phase.
Then he died.
Can you imagine what he would have given us in the rest of his middle age phase, let alone his late age?
Energia vitale pura! Istanti in cui l'udito si fa persona intera.
È pura classicità anticipatrice di romanticismo. Sentimento apollineo unito a sentire romantico. Le note del secondo movimento infondono nel ❤️ un sentimento dolcissimo.
sono i berliner….une machine de guerre formidable! grande Boehm, grande!!!
Splendida e classica esecuzione del secondo movimento.
Desde mi adolescencia escuche las sinfonias de Mozart dirigidas por Bohm y me resulta dificil escucharlas por otros directores. Bohm suena perfecto para mi.
Tutto è arioso in questa sinfonia. Si respira aria pura.
Great i can hear trumpets in the finale
I love this BPO DISC than wpo disc.pauken nice sound.
Excelente versión! además de un buenísimo registro (grabación), se percibe toda la magnificencia y colorido de la orquesta. Gracias por compartir.
Mozart #41 Karl Bohm, Pyramid of this performance
Jupiter Berliner Bohm wunderbar
Late Mozart goes so hard. It is 100% proto-Romanticism. A world away from early Mozart and Haydn. Ironically, in going forward, he took more and more influence from Baroque music, which made his music deeper and more complex. There is so much counterpoint in this, for example. Had he lived longer, he may have developed perhaps not into a Beethoven, but into something morel like a Schumann. He did not have the brutally harsh life that made Beethoven, well, Beethoven.
Excellent
Insuperato e insuperabile
Impresionante interpretacion de Mozart, con Bhom,esta interpretacion junto con la de Klemperer,para mi son las mejores,la de klemperer posiblemente sea mas aspera,pero las 2 son impresionantes
What happens at 26:30 ?? It sounds like "I can't choose what's better to end my symphony, so I put everything here"! He did it!
Avec cette symphonie, Mozart achève les 3 symphonies consacrées aux 3 grades de la Franc- Maçonnerie. Le Compagnon qui a péri par le feu a disparu, et un nouveau Maître va naître en chambre du Milieu où sont réunis tous les Maîtres. Se dirigeant vers l'Orient, il y reçoit la force des Sages exprimée par le 3ème mouvement. L'Allegro final témoigne de la joie intense de cet événement exceptionnel.
@Jeb Clar C'est pitoyable !! Mozart est un génie , c'est pour cela qu'il est aimé partout dans le monde ,il y a tout dans sa musique ,la joie ,la tristesse , le sublime , il parle à l'âme ,au coeur ,il enchante !!
Vous manquez de finesse , c'est le moins qu'on puisse dire , je vous plains d'être un si piètre humain !
Vous citez des noms ,beaucoup de noms de musiciens pour étaler votre soit disant culture ,mais plus on l'étale ,moins on en a !!
Pauvre petit bonhomme !!!!
@Jeb Clar Un admirable concert de....sottises, d'imbécilités, de suffisance, de puérile fatuité.....
@Jeb ClarJe ne suis pas un fan de Mozart, mais force est de constater que votre analyse n'a aucun sens.
???
Wow, it's awesome! thanks..
done!! NO ADS ... NEVER BACK AGAIN
Thanks.
L' eterno moto circolare.
what a wonderful 4th movement :)
Yes, have you heard better?
me at least not
Klemperer 1954
omg
+Matheus Cardoso It's too slow.
Agil.Seguro.Nitido.👍👏👀🌹🍃🌹🍃💎🌠💎🌠
Circolarità perfetta.
this must've been shocking when it debuted. sounds like virtually nothing else up to that point in musical history.
stephen king is conducting?
are there any surviving recordings
of Furtwangler conducting this
symphony? if there are ,I have been unable to find them.
I would appreciate some help.
No, but there are 39 and 40, though 40 was once in question. And a Gran Partita and Eine Kleine. And piano concerti 20 and 22, with Yvonne Lefébure and Paul Badura-skoda, respectively. The 39 is a favorite of mine.
So nice
So cool
Dal pathos intenso.
テンポが良くて音も豊か🎶カラヤンは早くて好みではない
あなたにはウィーンフィルとの1987年5月24日のライヴ録音を是非聴いて頂いてご感想を伺いたいです。
...un piccolo enigma ...sono i musicisti philarrmoniker o è il direttore..?!!! … E poi, serve il direttore…..? la leggenda è realta', sono i berliner philarmonoker ..solo loro decidono il direttore…. e Karajan è stato scelto… Correva il 1972..rai 1 trsmetteva tutte le sinfonie di Beethoven, un Karajan maturo nel pieno del suo magistero...ma se non avesse avuto i berliner? idem per k. boehm… Scusate , sono facezie, una volta c'erano i salotti letterario musicali e quantaltro, oggi questo marchingegno diabolico, per comunicare…. io ho un po' di nostalgia...avrei voluto scrivere con calamaio e inchiostro e polvere assorbente. un saluto fraterno a tutti.
SE TI INTERESSA I SALOTTI MUSICALI, I CALAMAI ,E LE PENNE D OCA ,CI SONO ANCORA, E SI POSSONO UTILIZZARE. SEI ANCORA IN TEMPO AD ANDARE A FARE UN TUFFO NEL PASSATO SENZA NESSUN PROBLEMA, INTANTO CHE CI SEI TI FERMI DAL DROGHIERE A PRENDERE IL PANE E MAGARI PURE A CREDITO COME FACEVANO LE MASSAIE NEGLI ANNI 80 . QUESTI AGGEGGI TECNOLOGICI È MEGLIO CHE LI USANO LE PERSONE CHE GLI PIACCIONO. PS. QUI NON DIRIGE K.B ,MA O.KLEMPERER HAI ABBOCCATO COME UN POLLASTRO . CIAO E RICORDATI CHE LE PIANTE SI TAGLIANO A BASSO
Что за межзвёздная звезда Моцарт!
Further to period instrument recordings having nowadays usurped big band sounding Mozart, Bohm's famous set of recordings were always a dependable go to in comparison with other 60's/70's orchestras. His 41st is, in my view, exceedingly grounded and even too, granitic in the style of Klemperer, while being a much better reading than Bernstein's overrated and uninspiring 1984 account - despite its penguin rosette...Yes, I know that I'm defying the critics regarding Lenny's lauded VPO recording, but I find it to be staid and boring in comparison with this!
Cómo le van a colocar publicidad 😒
27:04
20:42
That's intro of Traveling to Jordan.
That's one! One good movement!
@@user-id8if8ie5y lol
Love ' big band' Mozart, not least because in those days they didn't drag these symphonies out to ridiculous length by using every conceivable repeat...there are versions of this that last over 40 minutes...BORING!!!
If you observe every repeat and perform it in the brisk tempi of Mozarts time this symphony should last around 35 Minutes.
U8316
Ufatteligt
Does anybody know if the exposition in part I is supposed to be repeated or not? I've listened to recordings of Karl Böhm, Herbert von Karajan, Günter Wand, and they all go directly to the development, without repeating the exposition. This sounds strange to me, like they were in a hurry to get it over with and go home faster. Neville Marriner, on the other hand, repeats the exposition, like one would expect.
What gives? Does the score actually not mention the repetition of the exposition? Did Mozart really intend it not to be repeated?
It was common to cut the repeats in the vinyl LP era because the conducting was usually slower then and they were trying to fit the music onto as few of discs as possible. Compare the tempo throughout this performance to the tempo of the Trevor Pinnock recording (also on my channel). You'll notice that while the tempo is slower here, the whole symphony clocks in at a total of 27:08. The Pinnock recording has much faster tempos, but clocks in at 39:34.
Mozart absolutely intended it to be repeated and not doing so is a crime in my opinion. Totally throws off the classical balance, we need to spend that extra time with the main thematic material. And Mozart, more than other composers, lives more in the exposition than in the development.
@oppie47:
I see. That makes sense. Thank you.
That unfortunately means that I may never find a complete (that is, not mutilated) recording to my liking, considering that my favourite conductors are Günter Wand and Karl Böhm, who happened to live at the pinnacle of the vinyl era. :-(
@von Ditters:
Indeed, that's exactly my feeling, that the work is somehow unbalanced without the repetition. I thought it was just me. Thank you.
Not only does Bohm cut the repeat exposition in the first movement, but there is a repeat in the second movement and two repeats in the last movement missing. If you'd like to hear a recording with all the repeats, try Leinsdorf's with the Boston Symphony Orchestra.
There isn't really a rule to repeat. However, Mozart wrote it down because it was common to repeat the exposition at that time. You can see it in sonatas and other pieces too. Now it's up to the player or conductor to choose if the exposition is repeated or not.
Again.
In my personal opinion, I think that Bohm takes Mozart painfully slowly. I think it takes away the excitement of the piece, especially the fugal finale. I much prefer (and recommend) recordings by other great personnel such as Neville Marriner, Sir Colin Davis and Jeffrey Tate.
Englishmen then! For English tastes.
@@rjg728 Precisely 🤣🤣
19:29 for the Jordan Peterson fans
And the intro of Jordan - Country of Knowledge.
Hahaah that’s why I’m here
Reseña de este disco:
ua-cam.com/video/40cEgYii_zo/v-deo.html
Was Bohm on valium half the time or something? That minuet could be danced by 100 year olds. Even 1.25 speed is a little too slow. The finale at 1.25 speed is a true "molto allegro," although maybe closer to a presto, but better than what he is doing here. Meet some composers and you'll find they often tend to prefer hearing things on the fast side (or that's how they hear it in their heads), and I'm sure in Mozart's case, that was even more so, considering the level of his genius.
Agreed about the minuet.
Disagree... completely. It's not about "100 year-olds"... It's about feel. Get you some.
Sorry guys, this is boring.
Flying Up, and Up, and Up and Up and then...Up again... start asking myself when will this ends?
who else got this for homework
ich bin intelligent
lol probably a year 7 in qe
if u wanna know who I am,
my initials are o p
Nein
Too fast, too much festivity..
Too fast?! Böhm is usually much too slow in Mozart! This is one of the few instances were he gets it absolutely right.
The first movement of this symphony is the single most boring opening I've ever heard from any composer, the same repetitive chromatisms Mozart has written for 154537388 other pieces.
The fugue in the finale is not touching any of Bach's or the fugue in Beethoven's 9th Symphony.
Asinine comment
@Furby Boom The other guy, of course! - Such nonsense he has scribbled. Sorry if I wasn't clear in the reply as to whom it meant.
Gould was of course mad when he said that about Mozart. Such nonentities like Gould stand no comparison whatsoever with such an immortal genius like Mozart!