Fundamentals is the best class I’ve done so far and even if I dive sidemount nowdays I still think that anyone who dive with doubles shold sign up for it. Worth every ”penny”.
I think it makes sense to offer as one of the common criticisms of the class is that you don't "get" anything out of it, i.e., none of your limits have changed. Fundies transformed my wife and my diving for sure.
You get a lot from the class…but sure it does not extend your certification limits and with the Triox upgrade you’re right, you are certified for something new.
@@DoktorBEN agreed. So many people don't see the value the of a class unless it let's them do something new. It's a bad outlook on training, but in the culture of instant gratification people want something immediately without stopping to take the time to enjoy the process of truly mastering something.
With the current premises and market conditions, the use of Trimix in OC is destined to collapse more and more and unfortunately the transition to the CC is by no means taken for granted, quite the contrary. I foresee tough times for Tech divers
Great information as always, Ben. Maybe a counterpoint, Fundies is already jam packed and adding more stuff might just overload an already stressed student
I think the price of 30/30 is to high for most people. I did remember a GUE trip to the Bruno Heineman wreck at the Northsea . Most of the divers were tech 1. All the GUE oc divers were diving nitrox. (I was using my GUE jj ccr. It was filled with 18/45. The rest of my team was using jj ccr, trimix and oxygen stage bailout.) During gue projects there were a lot of divers doing 1 dive instead of 2 dives because of the costs of helium. The wreck which we were diving during the project was at 51 meter. But I think the costs of oc diving with trimix are already a big problem for a lot of gue divers. I think prices don’t stop raising. I think in 5 or 10 years nobody is diving oc with trimix anymore. I bring my camera almost every dive. I’m diving my jj for 2 years now. If I would have done all the dives oc with trimix it would have cost me more then 10000 euro. I did 100+ dives to 30 meter or deeper in 2 years. If I sell my jj now it was already cheaper then doing 100 dives oc with helium…
That’s a question that depends on the overall usage of your CCR, because the maintenance is more expensive regarding cells for instance. However, I’m covering that in one of my next videos 😄
Triox only applies if you can see yourself doing 30/30 dives in the future, and I would assume that you would need to have a number of experience dives to keep your certification. The $$$ adds up very quickly.
@@DoktorBEN hahaha I'm very interested in GUE, but I have 2 issues with it: 1) You guys hate smokers. 2) It feels very elitist, and adds a lot more expenses to an already expensive sport. Anyway, you have a good taste in UA-cam videos! 🤣 Awesome channel. Keep up the good work.
We don’t hate smokers. Anyone can smoke as much as they like. We just don’t certify smokers (for very good reasons) 😉 It appears elitist, but in fact we’re just normal people. Sure, GUE course are expensive…but they are as expensive as high quality classes need to be. If the instructor can’t live from it, he reduces quality. As always: You get what you pay for anyway thanks for watching my videos. You’re always invited to come diving and experience the GUE community 🙂
@@DoktorBEN hahaha! I'm not talking about the course prices. Those are totally justified! The GUE DIR-style equipment is what I'm talking about! Yeah, I'm planning on doing a try dive with a GUE center to see how it goes. Maybe it will get me to quit smoking and dump all my life savings into DIR equipment! 🤷🏻♂️
The equipment prices are not GUEs fault…Blame it on the manufacturers 😁😁. However, there are cheaper alternatives I sometimes introduce on my channel. If it makes you stop smoking, it’s worth the money. Just think of all the beautiful equipment you could by for what you save on cigarettes 😁
The downsides with 30/30 other than cost are that without a deco gas you end up with longer decompression or a shorter bottom time. Surely when helium is added a decompression gas makes sense, which adds a whole other level of complexity to the dive. You’ve potentially just gone from a minimum deco dive on 32% to a staged decompression dive with 30/30 and a deco gas for marginal gains on gas density. Considering the gas density is 5.2 g/L for 32% at 30m (optimum density at which no physiological effects will occur) I’d just opt for 32% and a simple dive to keep it simple. It would be interesting to see if there is actually a perceived difference between 30/30 and 32% and what level of exercise is required in order to feel the difference.
Well…I personally feel the difference. When it comes to the deco problem: The Rec2/Triox is a minimum deco (=no deco) class, so in terms of the class, this is not a problem. Sure, if you exceed that, a 30/30 without deco gas is less beneficial and gives you longer decompression times compared to 32%.
Any other couses you can add to the fundamentals? The class you discuss just doesn't make sense for my goals. I have no gue classes under my belt and I'm really confused on how gue will fit into my goals. I want to start sidemount as soon as possible to start getting used to the kit so that I can add CCR and possible cave in the future. When looking up the gue classes online it's really confusing determining what I need to achieve my goals. I do not want to be spending money, that I don't have, on classes that are not on the path of my goals.
Sidemount is in the GUE world only a tool for specific caves. Most of the dives are done in backmount. If you like I can make a short video about the current course structure.
Would you recommend maybe doing a doubles primer combined with fundies as a better course structure for a week if someone was that way inclined and wanting to progress that way? or would you do fundies in a single tank configuration and then progress onto doubles at a later date?
It depends on your goals and also on the skillset you already have. Many people skip doubles primer and show up to the class diving doubles first time. Most of the time it works well, but maybe the outcome would be better if they had taken the primer first. If you are into technical diving, I wouldn’t do the Fundies with a single tank, but opt for doubles. If you are not so into technical or cave diving, go slow and start with the single tank configuration
@@DoktorBEN thanks for the reply! I’ve done a few dives on doubles and want to progress into technical so didn’t know if turning up to fundies on doubles was accepted or not without doing some formal training e.g doubles primer first 👍🏻
30:30 doesn’t make sense for me. A very expensive way to deal with the problem, and I’m already diving in cold water and the helium only adds to that stress.
Don’t think it adds stress. Maybe to the purse 😉. It’s a great way to address gas density - and in deed the only way to address gas density. But yeah, it comes at a significant price
We dive in high currents in the St-Laurence river often, and had to fight against the current a few time even at dept… so no, I don’t think the cost is worth the benefit… I keep my helium money for tech dives 😉
Man, stop making sense of using $120 gas on two OC 30 meters dives. It does NOT make sense at all even if you are rich! This video was made 2 years ago, now helium is even more expensive due to sanctions against Russia. The only sensible time to use 30/30 is as travel gas for deep trimix dives
Fundamentals is the best class I’ve done so far and even if I dive sidemount nowdays I still think that anyone who dive with doubles shold sign up for it. Worth every ”penny”.
Oh yeah absolutely my experience (and the reason I am here today ;) )
I think it makes sense to offer as one of the common criticisms of the class is that you don't "get" anything out of it, i.e., none of your limits have changed. Fundies transformed my wife and my diving for sure.
You get a lot from the class…but sure it does not extend your certification limits and with the Triox upgrade you’re right, you are certified for something new.
@@DoktorBEN agreed. So many people don't see the value the of a class unless it let's them do something new. It's a bad outlook on training, but in the culture of instant gratification people want something immediately without stopping to take the time to enjoy the process of truly mastering something.
With the current premises and market conditions, the use of Trimix in OC is destined to collapse more and more and unfortunately the transition to the CC is by no means taken for granted, quite the contrary. I foresee tough times for Tech divers
Yes that’s absolutely true. I’m hoping for fusion reactors that produce helium as byproduct to come into market on a large scale 😂😂
@@DoktorBEN Yes please 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😂
Great information as always, Ben. Maybe a counterpoint, Fundies is already jam packed and adding more stuff might just overload an already stressed student
Well yeah it depends on the student and the instructor should advise the student
I think the price of 30/30 is to high for most people. I did remember a GUE trip to the Bruno Heineman wreck at the Northsea . Most of the divers were tech 1. All the GUE oc divers were diving nitrox.
(I was using my GUE jj ccr. It was filled with 18/45. The rest of my team was using jj ccr, trimix and oxygen stage bailout.)
During gue projects there were a lot of divers doing 1 dive instead of 2 dives because of the costs of helium. The wreck which we were diving during the project was at 51 meter.
But I think the costs of oc diving with trimix are already a big problem for a lot of gue divers. I think prices don’t stop raising. I think in 5 or 10 years nobody is diving oc with trimix anymore. I bring my camera almost every dive. I’m diving my jj for 2 years now. If I would have done all the dives oc with trimix it would have cost me more then 10000 euro. I did 100+ dives to 30 meter or deeper in 2 years. If I sell my jj now it was already cheaper then doing 100 dives oc with helium…
Yes…I’m wanted to make a video about the cost comparison. Maybe we could collaborate on that, if you like
Video very interesting!
from a purely economic point, it's cheaper to dive CCR than helium if you do any significant amount of diving.
That’s a question that depends on the overall usage of your CCR, because the maintenance is more expensive regarding cells for instance. However, I’m covering that in one of my next videos 😄
No problem for me to use Tx every WE as I am diving only on my GUE CCR unit ;-)
Well yeah, after you chewed on the initial cost that helps to dive Tx with piece of mind 🤣
Triox only applies if you can see yourself doing 30/30 dives in the future, and I would assume that you would need to have a number of experience dives to keep your certification. The $$$ adds up very quickly.
Yes, the cash is, as I said, the major downside 😃
Great videos. I recommend you go through list of videos in your GUE Fundamentals class playlist! 😉
Thanks! Apparently you’re the first to watch the entire playlist through 😂😂
@@DoktorBEN hahaha I'm very interested in GUE, but I have 2 issues with it: 1) You guys hate smokers. 2) It feels very elitist, and adds a lot more expenses to an already expensive sport. Anyway, you have a good taste in UA-cam videos! 🤣 Awesome channel. Keep up the good work.
We don’t hate smokers. Anyone can smoke as much as they like. We just don’t certify smokers (for very good reasons) 😉
It appears elitist, but in fact we’re just normal people. Sure, GUE course are expensive…but they are as expensive as high quality classes need to be. If the instructor can’t live from it, he reduces quality. As always: You get what you pay for
anyway thanks for watching my videos. You’re always invited to come diving and experience the GUE community 🙂
@@DoktorBEN hahaha! I'm not talking about the course prices. Those are totally justified! The GUE DIR-style equipment is what I'm talking about!
Yeah, I'm planning on doing a try dive with a GUE center to see how it goes. Maybe it will get me to quit smoking and dump all my life savings into DIR equipment! 🤷🏻♂️
The equipment prices are not GUEs fault…Blame it on the manufacturers 😁😁. However, there are cheaper alternatives I sometimes introduce on my channel.
If it makes you stop smoking, it’s worth the money. Just think of all the beautiful equipment you could by for what you save on cigarettes 😁
The downsides with 30/30 other than cost are that without a deco gas you end up with longer decompression or a shorter bottom time.
Surely when helium is added a decompression gas makes sense, which adds a whole other level of complexity to the dive. You’ve potentially just gone from a minimum deco dive on 32% to a staged decompression dive with 30/30 and a deco gas for marginal gains on gas density.
Considering the gas density is 5.2 g/L for 32% at 30m (optimum density at which no physiological effects will occur) I’d just opt for 32% and a simple dive to keep it simple.
It would be interesting to see if there is actually a perceived difference between 30/30 and 32% and what level of exercise is required in order to feel the difference.
Well…I personally feel the difference. When it comes to the deco problem: The Rec2/Triox is a minimum deco (=no deco) class, so in terms of the class, this is not a problem. Sure, if you exceed that, a 30/30 without deco gas is less beneficial and gives you longer decompression times compared to 32%.
Any other couses you can add to the fundamentals? The class you discuss just doesn't make sense for my goals. I have no gue classes under my belt and I'm really confused on how gue will fit into my goals. I want to start sidemount as soon as possible to start getting used to the kit so that I can add CCR and possible cave in the future. When looking up the gue classes online it's really confusing determining what I need to achieve my goals. I do not want to be spending money, that I don't have, on classes that are not on the path of my goals.
Sidemount is in the GUE world only a tool for specific caves. Most of the dives are done in backmount. If you like I can make a short video about the current course structure.
Would you recommend maybe doing a doubles primer combined with fundies as a better course structure for a week if someone was that way inclined and wanting to progress that way? or would you do fundies in a single tank configuration and then progress onto doubles at a later date?
It depends on your goals and also on the skillset you already have. Many people skip doubles primer and show up to the class diving doubles first time. Most of the time it works well, but maybe the outcome would be better if they had taken the primer first. If you are into technical diving, I wouldn’t do the Fundies with a single tank, but opt for doubles. If you are not so into technical or cave diving, go slow and start with the single tank configuration
@@DoktorBEN thanks for the reply! I’ve done a few dives on doubles and want to progress into technical so didn’t know if turning up to fundies on doubles was accepted or not without doing some formal training e.g doubles primer first 👍🏻
Yes it’s allowed and if you have done already done dives in doubles and it feels right for you, I think you can confidently skip the primer.
30:30 doesn’t make sense for me. A very expensive way to deal with the problem, and I’m already diving in cold water and the helium only adds to that stress.
Don’t think it adds stress. Maybe to the purse 😉. It’s a great way to address gas density - and in deed the only way to address gas density. But yeah, it comes at a significant price
We dive in high currents in the St-Laurence river often, and had to fight against the current a few time even at dept… so no, I don’t think the cost is worth the benefit… I keep my helium money for tech dives 😉
So what would you do, when helium was cheap?
@@DoktorBEN we always dive Nitrox 32% up to 30 meters…
Man, stop making sense of using $120 gas on two OC 30 meters dives. It does NOT make sense at all even if you are rich! This video was made 2 years ago, now helium is even more expensive due to sanctions against Russia. The only sensible time to use 30/30 is as travel gas for deep trimix dives
Du bist ein Deutscher Tauchlehrer, warum machst du Videos auf Englisch?
Weil es schon ne Reihe deutscher Kanäle gibt und ich auch viele internationale Schüler habe.