Wow. I am not religious, was not raised religious. Fell down this rabbit hole because I was curious and looking for new podcasts. This is the first episode I listened to (these two parts.) Shattered so many of my preconceptions, I’m honestly humbled to the point of extreme embarrassment. I thought people who were taken advantage of by organized religion were not smart, that’s why they were duped… wrong, clearly. I thought people who “believed” and participated in organized religion chose to simply because they wanted a framework for life, and they CHOSE IT. I was so wrong. I never understood the depth of belief, of hope and guidance religion gave, and the sheer and utter pain when finding out it’s not true… that’s not to mention the insidiousness of being raised in organized religion, told by EVERYONE you love and trust that this is the truth, that this is the path you must take. And then, looking inward… the things I look to for guidance, my goals, my purpose- they are secular, but they exist to give me somewhere to go, NOT that I want to walk that path…. But they are so ingrained in my identity that ripping them out literally sends my heart racing, and I’m consumed with fear at the idea of having no direction. I have so much to think about. I feel like I understand the devout people in my life for the first time, but even then I feel like I only have an inkling of understanding. On top of that, I need to look at my own life. Was not expecting this level of revelation :’) but thank you. Truly, thank you.
Mormon Stories Podcast Thrive Stories playlist is my favorite series from this podcast. They also have a multi-part interview with cult expert Steve Hassan who breaks down cult manipulative tactics. You'll probably really like that one, too.
Honestly, so so so same. Until I found some ex-religious podcasts/youtubers. I was like oh it’s just comforting to believe in a deity than struggle with the notion that there is nothing, and that “intelligent” people wouldn’t be able to hold this belief, cause how can a smart person believe in a fairytale? But yea, all of that shattered when you hear these people, the loving indoctrination since birth by all those around them, and their devastation when they realize it’s untrue. Definitely am more compassionate now after getting even a 1% understanding.
Celeste has been one of my favorite MSP guests to date. So much resonated with . I realized I've been deconstructing for years, even though I've only recently left physically.
Fantastic session. Very powerful poem from Celeste, deeply moving, emotional, and painfully honest. She has a gift for sure. Margie's thoughts and questions are insightful and purposeful, love her ❤. John is sharp, and I can identify with the need to help everyone, your an empath with a short amount of time 😊 so happy to have found this channel. Working through my own journey, mostly alone, so this community is a blessing. Thank you and God bless
I've never cried happy tears in a Mormon Stories episode like this. I've been afraid to say that (1) I don't believe in Sky Daddy and (2) Big Love Within is def more compelling to me and (3) I'm not certain of a lot of my other beliefs - and in fact, I don't want to have all the answers because then I'd be an awful scientist. Thank you for making this path feel safer, Celeste!
@@rilum97 You might be entirely missing the point here. I don't disagree with you about God being neither male nor female, by the way. The point is that many of us who grew up in environments where patriarchal, cultish iterations of Abrahamic faiths predominated were conditioned to view God as an angry patriarch in the sky, an anthropomorphized father figure. Then we had to decide whether that portrait of God still resonated with us or not.
@@madeleinesutherland1623 I think the phrase "I have been misrepresented by those who didn't know me" makes testimonies like yours so sad. No wonder you don't believe.
@@sooz5703 I'm sorry you feel like my testimony has to be sad! My past was sad, and I've found so much joy and fulfillment at this time in my life. If you're coming at things from a traditional theist perspective, it can sometimes, potentially, be hard to imagine how my present reality could be a happy one. Maybe it's one of those things you have to find out first-hand.
@@madeleinesutherland1623 My apologies, I didn't mean to sound like i'm not happy that you're happy. I have lived most of my life where you are and had plenty of good times. It's good you're free.. not discounting that at all. I come from a perspective of being born again, so I have personal relationship with (and have been changed by) the Lord. Not tradition. Sometimes online I should probably keep my thoughts to myself as like you are taking it, I don't understand how happy and free you are and to be sad is insulting. So my apologies, if I came across that way. Stay beautiful. Sue x
I relate so much to her story. I wasn't Mormon, but came from a fundamentalist Christian upbringing and young adulthood...very zealous and consumed with "following God." I found a much more liberal church in my 30's but continued to deconstruct. By the end of covid (also my natural ease into non-church attendance) I felt so free. But I still struggle with all the lost friendships and connections.
Celeste, your poem is incredibly beautiful, impactful, and, for me, spot on. Your intelligence, eloquence, and depth are impressive and inspiring. I’m so glad that you are working with people as a spiritual companion. They are in the best of hands.
One of the best interviews EVER! It is so comforting to know that there are other people who have been down the same meandering spiritual path that I have. (Even meeting my husband on the ballroom dance team, although a generation or two before you). Thank you Celeste for sharing your story.
Yessss! Margi and Celeste, we can only hope for a collab from such insightful, wise, and caring women. This series has made me feel safe, loved, worthy, and whole indeed. Thank you!
Mr. John or Dr. John, you and your wife are amazing. I’m not a Mormon but I’m so here to listen to your content. There’s so many good, pure people, that seem to be so hard on themselves. It’s heartbreaking because everyone I’ve seen on your channel seem like the most amazing people. I will start supporting your channel because I know you help so many people especially the lgbt youngsters. I have a 19 year old daughter that is gay and she is just like your guest the most amazing young lady, I think you are doing a huge service to people like her. Thank you.
Left mormonism just 7 months ago. I relate to changing the words to fit better. Also the getting comfy or at least tolerate uncertainty. I was itchy with the reference to certain books or people ...experts or "contibuters" in the fueld of deconstruction. I have love/hate with "heros" or "know betters". My authority is I am. That me listens to the you are, we are and the powers that be. This presentation bordered a bit on knowing better than. Thanks
I bought a refrigerator magnet in AZ years ago that says: “A religious person follows the teachings of his church. ….A spiritual person follows the guidance of his soul.”
Because of the title of this episode, I almost didn't listen. I'm glad that I did! She addressed how difficult it is to trust oneself after being duped, how anger is uncomfortable if you've always kept it suppressed, seeing it as a manifestation of Satan's power, and engaging with the idea that being selfless is not ideal. Self-FULL!
What a delightful, insightful woman. Thank you for sharing your journey! I'm not really into poetry, but, damn! Your poem just brought tears to my eyes! Beautiful wisdom, indeed.
Lovely. So many tangents to explore. I am truly triggered by any Abrahamic religion where all the sweet lovely people come up to me and simply say, "We love you!" I am transported back to the chapel or church house immediately. I have found that I do need ritual but not in a group setting. Right now I am exploring the world that focuses on nature and the here and now. Celeste is delightful and it was a joy to follow her journey.
I have re-listened to her poem so many times. Thank you Celeste! The part about the forged name of Jesus brought me to tears. Thank you for articulating what I've never been able to.
Beautiful episodes! Celeste is so incredibly intelligent and thoughtful. I feel like I need to go back and listen again so I can dive deeper into some of the ideas she presented, books mentioned, etc. I kept having ah-ha moments! The idea of a spiritual director is new to me as well and a 💡 moment. AMAZING. Her poem about Jesus summed it all up for me though. Jesus has been weaponized in America and it makes me mad. I hate it. Celeste’s poem put words to my feelings. Thank you for that. ❤
I hope Celeste comes back for another episode, because I want to hear more! I'm especially interested to hear her story about deconstructing monogamy, but I think she would also make a fabulous guest host!
I LOVED these two episodes and absolutely adore Celeste and her authenticity, vulnerability, humanity and all-round-likeability. She has definitely hit her stride as a post-Mormon survivor and thriver. Couldn’t adore her and her journey more. Celeste, THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing your kindred spirit with me. I’m more than 30 years into my post-Mormon life and I am just this minute feeling like there’s another post-Mormon soul on this planet who ‘gets it’ (and therefore gets me) in a way that has felt so validating to my own meandering decades-long journey. Big Love, indeed. ❤
😢… need to watch another one of your podcasts and one of my favorites ~ part 4. I’ll get back to you! Totally different feeling with part two. Self centered and making money is what I walk away with after listening to the part 2. Instead of feeling unconditional love (Part 1) I am left so sad and confused… The LDS Church started because of self indulgence and making money off of others. Only caring about yourself…
This 2pt interview was so amazing to listen to! I have been finally deconstructing after leaving the church a second time (but for real this time) and my sister in law recently confided in me that she left the church about a year ago. I will certainly be passing this along to her. ❤
Wow, wow! Celeste thank you for sharing so much of your experience, I resonated with so much of what you said. And your poem - articulates so beautifully such a hard part of deconstructing mormonism. Xxxx
I really appreciate this interview. I am so stuck in this phase of feeling like I need to "figure it out" but like Celeste, I just feel contented not really believing in God. I feel like there is so much shame and fear built into being athiest and the fact that it feels right to me and isn't jarring is kind of wild to me. I just never thought I would be here or feel this way, but like Celeste, here I am and I am embracing life. Thank you John, Margi, and Celeste for this amazing interview.
Thank you SO much, Celeste! This video was incredibly timely for me. You said so many things that I have either thought or tried to express verbally. Some phrases that you said about deconstructing Mormon God are literally verbatim thoughts I have had and written down. It is nice to feel like I have someone intellectually/spiritually in my corner, when so many people in the church tend to misunderstand my struggles with the Mormon God and become extremely defensive or gaslight me when I bring them up.
Celeste, you are able to verbally express yourself the way that I have tried to….but I still stumble around a lot, being misunderstood. I, Mr. Dehlin, was one of those people who irksomely said, “but why get rid of God and Jesus just because you found out that the church isn’t true?” I have been on a continuum, like Celeste so eloquently said it is…..I keep finding out that the things that once fit, either don’t anymore, or they need to be rearranged or given a different assignment, etc. Everything is still in ‘flux’….and I am now realising, it may be in flux until I leave this realm. What I thought was correct and works for me today…..could, and most likely will, change tomorrow…..and as Celeste has said, ‘that’s okay!’ I am trying to not feel as disoriented as I once did, with the uncertainty and ever-changing outlook that I now have. I feel like a tumbleweed blowing in the wind right now….and just like that tumbleweed, as I am tumbling along, I am leaving little seeds in my path without meaning to…..like saying things that seemed right for me at the time, but I am not as aligned with now. This is beginning to give me pause….causing me to not want to say so much about where I am anymore at any given moment….because….THAT COULD CHANGE! And the things (seeds) that I said previously, are still echoing ‘out there’, impacting others. I have to take responsibility for that. I have to decide how I am going to manage that going forward…..ooooh, there is that ‘shame’ feeling creeping in! Ah well, what’s that saying? When we know better, we do better. I just hope we all can allow each other enough grace to change and improve, and not be locked in by the things we did or said in the past. It’s when people hold you to what was said in the past, that makes it so hard to change and move forward…..as there will be some who will continually rub our noses in things that we once believed and gave voice to….but we no longer believe any longer….we have now moved on…..or are at least, trying to. I think that this interview with Celeste Davis, is my most favourite one yet! I will have to listen to it again! When I was in my very early teens, I remember being more like the person that Celeste is becoming….more open-minded, less judgemental, live and let live, etc. Somewhere along the way, it was beaten out of me. Had to follow others strict guidelines/rules, in order to ‘fit in’. Well, that hadn’t worked out too well! I need to get back to where I was in my early teens and be open to finding out what works best FOR ME! Without allowing the narcissists in my life to try to guilt me into forgetting myself and serve only them. That has been a rather miserable path! Thank you, Celeste, for sharing your insights! And thank you John and Margie Dehlin, for providing this forum for people like Celeste to share with us all!
Thanks guys this was wonderful. Celeste you are a treasure and a gift for those trying to understand and get a grip on their own humanity. Thanks kiddo.
this episode explained to me why i've always been angry, nihilistic, confused, lost, depressed and anxious. i was stuck in disorder and never worked on the order piece because of my family dysfunction (i'm a never mormon). i struggled to understand and accept the systems around me. i couldn't wrap my mind around them because i didn't have an internal compass/consciousness. the systems always felt wrong to me, but i didn't know how to react to them.
I relate to a lot of this. I am feeling betrayed by the church because its not true. The promises made took a lot of deconstruction which is still ongoing for me. I like the the term "My Big God."
This has been really significant for me non LDS. And your journey is nearly the same as most of us born in 50's, still dealing with being the "generation between".....
John your point at 1:16:00 was the single best thought expressed in the entire two part show. It was the recurring thought I had the whole time I listened to Celeste's deconstruction.
I was never mormon but this is my exact deconstruction and reconstruction story, save I no longer believe in any "god" that people have concocted. Thanks for sharing!
John I’m glad you talked about c-ptsd and it being from more than the things people picture. I have never been mormon but I have been watching all your videos for months because I am a csa/incest survivor and I recognize the same tactics my parents used that the Mormon church uses. Religion can be a very complex trauma.
Thank you for having people on to share their journeys of leaving high demand religions and how hard the journey is after leaving. I grew up in what some would call mainstream religions but just recently realized I was traumatized by it. The judgment and shame was real. Being a person with a sever mental illness to begin with it definitely wasn’t helpful. I have experienced many traumas from being raped, domestic violence, abandonment from a parent, complex ptsd and am bipolar. Sorry not trying to make anyone feel sorry for me because I am a survivor and now want to find a way to help others. But living on disability makes that impossible. So I am reaching out to different people hoping for ideas. I have such compassion for anyone who has any type of crisis or struggles. Compassion and kindness are what this world needs more of. Thank you John and everyone who works with you for what your doing.
Wow! That poem Celeste wrote nails it beautifully! That is probably the most profound poem I have ever heard. Please let us know when and where it has been posted on a web site. It is clunky to forward an Instagram link instead vs a web site
1:33:00 Good description of Substack AFAIK. Tony Ortega is a journalist who writes daily about Scientology. He used to have a blog and now writes on substack. I think the said he doubled his audience.
Wish that I had been given the same wisdom at her age to move away from the Church.. I think my life was taken away from the Church for many Years but didn’t go back due to shame not the actual truth. Now many (too many years later) discover the actual historical issues and truth and wish so much that I could have left it behind much sooner!
Given the nature of man I personally can't imagine a world without the gospel of Jesus Christ. I dont count on the human compass making the world a better place.
Celeste... thank you. I'm in the clinging onto the church. I haven't been active for years. I no longer have a testimony, but my basic beliefs are Mormon and I don't know how to let go. Do I need to decide what is true and what isn't? You've got rid of Mormon God for me, but now what? Hahahaha. I don't expect an answer.
Happy to dialogue with you. For me I wanted to find out what is true. Just because Joseph Smith is a false profit doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t come as profesized and die for your sins.
I’m interested in your 40 part series about the true history of the church but it’s a lot to take in and very detailed. Do you have anything that is 2 to 3 hours to explain the most important parts? If not, I’d love to see that in the future. I’m from Southeast Idaho, if you know you know… I was baptized when I was 8 and never went back. I’m in a community surrounds me in Mormonism. It’s tough and understanding the history is very fascinating since I’m around it all the time. Thanks for all you do!
I loved the series with LDSdiscussions. It really needs to be listened to each one in order. There isn't a deadline so you can take it a bit at a time. I listen to a lot of podcasts on 1.5 or once I get really used to the voices 1.75. The good thing about the series is that every topic you could possible think about, it is broken down with the research backing it up. Take it a bit at a time and you will be able to breeze thru it.
I'm watching exactly because of you guys putting the quotation marks around the word god. Perfect decision to do that. In fact before I started the first one, i told myself, I'm here for the always great, always insightful story of a hard journey, but if it starts veering into what new god did i invent for myself, I'll bail. Though I'm pretty sure every Mormon story I've started, I've finished. Also I looove Celeste's fabulous sense of humor, Especially the ability to laugh so hard at her old self, while still being so kind and loving to her old self. I just love it and I'm trying to learn from her example. Off topic question. Has Mormon Stores ever interviewed anyone who never actually believed in God, ever? Like maybe from birth? Haha. I ask because I was raised a pretty dang observant Catholic, but i truly never believed any of it was real or true. This sounds crazy, but i remember sitting in mass, i was only 4 or 5. It would have been during the homily, and the priest was talking about how God sees everything we do, you can't hide from God etc. He also mentioned remembering that to get to heaven. I just remember so clearly, looking around inside that church in disbelief that all those people seemed to actually believe this stuff. That was 1960 I didn't leave until around 2000. Over those years i tried hard to find a way to believe in God, or berated myself that i was missing something if everyone else believed. I dabbled in other churches secretly. ButI just put on a fake front and kept at it for all the usual reason, expectations. In my family, the most involved gets the most gold stars. i did every sacred rite, attempted to bring my children up in it etc. I was a lecter, they do readings during mass, I taught Catechism, sang in choir, did youth group etc. I did it all. And despite my firm disbelief, i still absorbed the confusing messages of guilt and shame. I shared far more than needed here I'm sure, but I'd love to hear about a Mormon equivalent of me. I do wish the Catholics had an equivalent mission requirement. I'd have been officially out 20 years sooner.
General question: is the phrase "great question" a missionary phrase? I've noticed it said by so many people on Mormon Stories, almost as a knee jerk response to questions.
I n the past few weeks, I watched several interviews (state approved) of several Russians about how life was now in Russia. 4 out of 7 of those who appeared to be over fifty quickly answered that it was terrible, "much better when they were'Soviets'". When asked why or how they answered the same way. "You always knew what to do. Didn’t need to think about it ". "I don’t like having to always make decisions about everything". (They obviously misunderstood the focus of the question) Sound familiar to you? From NH, Patricia 👵🏻
The more Mormon Stories episodes (and other podcasts about similar subjects) I watch, the more I recognize how reading, when I was maybe 20 (35 y ago), Hofstadters 'Gödel Escher Bach - An eternal golden braid' influenced me. I especially related to Hofstadter explaining Gödels theorems (I'm not a mathematician). If even math as a VERY exact language has a fundamental flaw, there's no certainty. So I better deal with that. 🙂 (I recommend the Veritasium video - Math's fundamental flaw!)
There are a few references to Buddhism in these talks. One key thing to notice is that John talks about secular Buddhism. This is an important point. Certain Buddhist traditions reproduce all the high-control problems we are familiar with from some Abrahamic traditions. If one does look into Buddhist tradition, or a new Abrahamic practice, pick and choose what works for you. The more authoritarian traditions absolutely hate that. They hate your recognition of your agency. Don't fall for it, and walk away, freely taking anything you want from them. They will claim to own "sunrise" and demand you pay admission. Don't pay. Just get up and watch, if you want to do so. The same with meditation and whatever other "sunrise" they claim to own. They don't.
Celeste is such a shining example of how an intelligent, good human being can believe anything....and then change. But how do we know "good" when we see it? Are we just born with an innate ability to know what's good? My personal experience is that our primary teacher of "good" is our mothers. My mother was not ambivalent about what was good behavior, even though she stopped being a part of the Baptist church after leaving Arkansas for the "good" life of California. She never talked about God or Jesus to me as a child, but she did talk about being "good". Where did she get her ideas about "good"? Probably from her mother or the Baptist church. We "know" what's "good" either directly or indirectly as in my case, from a religion which may teach things which are also "not good" by today's standards. One of the things I notice about Celeste and most other guests on Mormon Stories is how personal the experiences are. American and Christian culture really emphasizes the primacy of the individual over the community. We tend to think that this is the normal thinking for all people and all cultures, but it isn't. Most cultures going back to cave-man days emphasizes the group, or community. These communities were held together by common stories of who they were, where they came from, what made them a people different from other communities. These stories were their religion and gave them strength to work together and survive. The Christian "story" expanded the community to include people who were otherwise different from each other. The Buddhist "story" did the same, as did all the great world religions. John mentions the "Nones" as the fastest growing religious group in the country, which on the one hand is encouraging, showing that people are asking the hard questions and refusing to accept the old "story", the old answers which were tailored to the questions and beliefs of thousands of years ago. But it also shows that a culture with more and more "Nones" doesn't have a common story or myth to bring them together. Politics often provides myths to fill the vacuum, such as Fascism and Communism. Just a thought. Can we build a culture, a community, without a uniting mythology or story? I like the idea of having spiritual companions. We need to express our beliefs, or non-beliefs, with others to help us clarify exactly what we mean. My experience is that we tend to have fuzzy thoughts about our beliefs until we can express them to others in words. Written words are the best because we can reflect on what we've written and then revise our words to come closer to what we mean. And like Celeste mentions, we probably won't "believe" the same things next month exactly as we do today, or at least we might find better words to express those thoughts next month. And maybe....we might be more mature next month, or next year, than we are today. When we're a child, we think like a child, and when we're an adult we (hopefully) think like an adult. And maturing never stops.
Question for John: Just wondering why you chose not to practice as a psychologist after obtaining a PHD. Is it because Mormon Stories Podcast is a full-time project? Or was there another reason? Just curious
Yes. I fully completed my PhD. Just decided that MS was more than a full time job, and I was more interested in MS than in clinical psychology…especially given the large impact we are having. Touch wood.
True, The religious spirit is not of God. If you've ever truly accepted Jesus in your heart you don't lose him unless you cast him out because he will never leave you or forsake you. He's inside of you! I had an NDE back in 74, a serious care crash, where I left my body and was with the Lord Jesus. I don't care what your denomination is and neither does God. The Bible is the true living Word of God. God stays with you wherever you go. We all grow in the Lord our own way and these experiences are put before us for a reason. I went down that slippery slope after I left the LDS church. Sliding all the way the wrong way, towards a Jesus of my own creation for a time. I tried to fit him in my new life in a New Age type of thinking. That was my big mistake. I finally decided this isn't about me! It's for him and it's time I sacrificed my own will for God's will. I will never stray from the WORD of GOD ever again. No, I didn't return to the LDS religion. I'm a non denominational follower of Jesus, Yeshua and If something isn't backed my God's Word, I reject it. God warned me about that. I live for HIM. Not me.
This is one thing I have wondered. When people leave the church they often go to another high demand religion. I would imagine people who leave the LDS church would want nothing to do with any religion.
Why wait to create a life or your world until the next life? If the "kingdom of God is within us," why not start to create your own world while you can, NOW?
Study the God of Israel, we call Yahweh He, but his names include the feminine, nurturing side. God is the father, AND the mother who gives up his/ her son to save us. Not an angry Patriarch. The church of your youth has biased your impression because the god they gave you was false.
Question while listening @ 1:14:53, "everything is holy" - so what do we do with experiences that are clearly unholy - is being on the frontline in eastern Ukraine "holy"? Was being a Jew in Auswitch "holy"? Obviously not! You go down this path, and you run into the problem of distinguishing what is truly holy from what is not. And that is what authentic, healthy religion wrestles with. You're lying in the bathtub communing with all that is wonderful in the world, while your neighbour is homeless and suffering. This comment is from a person who grew up with the opposite kind of background to all you Mormons.
It should be a federal offense to birth imocent children into a cult in America. If you're an adult and want such a life for yourself that's one thing. But we all know why it's all about the children in a cult don't we?
Not saying your life sucks without God. It is sad that Mormonism drove you to drop the living God. Jesus died on a cross. That happened. He rose from the dead.
So I loved these interviews. However, at the end, talking about just choosing what to believe doesn’t make sense to me. I can’t comprehend it. I cannot choose to believe anything. Belief to me is a result of evidences. If I believe anything, it has to be a natural result or conclusion of evidence, even if my reasoning is flawed. I can’t just believe something without reason
She talks at 95 miles an hour. Please John Dehlin can you have speakers talk at a normal pace? She has so much to say that is important, and she is so intelligent. But her racing speech pattern is too challenging to listen to.
Wow.
I am not religious, was not raised religious. Fell down this rabbit hole because I was curious and looking for new podcasts. This is the first episode I listened to (these two parts.)
Shattered so many of my preconceptions, I’m honestly humbled to the point of extreme embarrassment.
I thought people who were taken advantage of by organized religion were not smart, that’s why they were duped… wrong, clearly.
I thought people who “believed” and participated in organized religion chose to simply because they wanted a framework for life, and they CHOSE IT. I was so wrong. I never understood the depth of belief, of hope and guidance religion gave, and the sheer and utter pain when finding out it’s not true… that’s not to mention the insidiousness of being raised in organized religion, told by EVERYONE you love and trust that this is the truth, that this is the path you must take.
And then, looking inward… the things I look to for guidance, my goals, my purpose- they are secular, but they exist to give me somewhere to go, NOT that I want to walk that path…. But they are so ingrained in my identity that ripping them out literally sends my heart racing, and I’m consumed with fear at the idea of having no direction.
I have so much to think about. I feel like I understand the devout people in my life for the first time, but even then I feel like I only have an inkling of understanding. On top of that, I need to look at my own life.
Was not expecting this level of revelation :’) but thank you. Truly, thank you.
Mormon Stories Podcast Thrive Stories playlist is my favorite series from this podcast.
They also have a multi-part interview with cult expert Steve Hassan who breaks down cult manipulative tactics. You'll probably really like that one, too.
This is deep. Thanks for sharing.
Honestly, so so so same. Until I found some ex-religious podcasts/youtubers. I was like oh it’s just comforting to believe in a deity than struggle with the notion that there is nothing, and that “intelligent” people wouldn’t be able to hold this belief, cause how can a smart person believe in a fairytale? But yea, all of that shattered when you hear these people, the loving indoctrination since birth by all those around them, and their devastation when they realize it’s untrue. Definitely am more compassionate now after getting even a 1% understanding.
Celeste has been one of my favorite MSP guests to date. So much resonated with . I realized I've been deconstructing for years, even though I've only recently left physically.
Fantastic session. Very powerful poem from Celeste, deeply moving, emotional, and painfully honest. She has a gift for sure. Margie's thoughts and questions are insightful and purposeful, love her ❤. John is sharp, and I can identify with the need to help everyone, your an empath with a short amount of time 😊 so happy to have found this channel. Working through my own journey, mostly alone, so this community is a blessing. Thank you and God bless
I've never cried happy tears in a Mormon Stories episode like this. I've been afraid to say that (1) I don't believe in Sky Daddy and (2) Big Love Within is def more compelling to me and (3) I'm not certain of a lot of my other beliefs - and in fact, I don't want to have all the answers because then I'd be an awful scientist. Thank you for making this path feel safer, Celeste!
"Sky Daddy" is a ridiculous childish insult. God is not male nor female.
@@rilum97 You might be entirely missing the point here. I don't disagree with you about God being neither male nor female, by the way. The point is that many of us who grew up in environments where patriarchal, cultish iterations of Abrahamic faiths predominated were conditioned to view God as an angry patriarch in the sky, an anthropomorphized father figure. Then we had to decide whether that portrait of God still resonated with us or not.
@@madeleinesutherland1623 I think the phrase "I have been misrepresented by those who didn't know me" makes testimonies like yours so sad. No wonder you don't believe.
@@sooz5703 I'm sorry you feel like my testimony has to be sad! My past was sad, and I've found so much joy and fulfillment at this time in my life. If you're coming at things from a traditional theist perspective, it can sometimes, potentially, be hard to imagine how my present reality could be a happy one. Maybe it's one of those things you have to find out first-hand.
@@madeleinesutherland1623 My apologies, I didn't mean to sound like i'm not happy that you're happy. I have lived most of my life where you are and had plenty of good times. It's good you're free.. not discounting that at all. I come from a perspective of being born again, so I have personal relationship with (and have been changed by) the Lord. Not tradition. Sometimes online I should probably keep my thoughts to myself as like you are taking it, I don't understand how happy and free you are and to be sad is insulting. So my apologies, if I came across that way. Stay beautiful. Sue x
I relate so much to her story. I wasn't Mormon, but came from a fundamentalist Christian upbringing and young adulthood...very zealous and consumed with "following God." I found a much more liberal church in my 30's but continued to deconstruct. By the end of covid (also my natural ease into non-church attendance) I felt so free. But I still struggle with all the lost friendships and connections.
Celeste, your poem is incredibly beautiful, impactful, and, for me, spot on. Your intelligence, eloquence, and depth are impressive and inspiring. I’m so glad that you are working with people as a spiritual companion. They are in the best of hands.
Oh my gosh how kind! Thank you so much!
So much wisdom. I loved the analogy of the mouse, cat and cheese. I’m happy not running from anything and not chasing anything.
One of the best interviews EVER! It is so comforting to know that there are other people who have been down the same meandering spiritual path that I have. (Even meeting my husband on the ballroom dance team, although a generation or two before you). Thank you Celeste for sharing your story.
Dear Celeste, your poem deserves all the ⭐️⭐️⭐️!
Yessss! Margi and Celeste, we can only hope for a collab from such insightful, wise, and caring women. This series has made me feel safe, loved, worthy, and whole indeed. Thank you!
Mr. John or Dr. John, you and your wife are amazing. I’m not a Mormon but I’m so here to listen to your content. There’s so many good, pure people, that seem to be so hard on themselves. It’s heartbreaking because everyone I’ve seen on your channel seem like the most amazing people. I will start supporting your channel because I know you help so many people especially the lgbt youngsters. I have a 19 year old daughter that is gay and she is just like your guest the most amazing young lady, I think you are doing a huge service to people like her. Thank you.
Why am I sobbing at your Jesus poem? I’ve been out of the church for years now but wow I felt that one in my guts. Thank you Celeste ❤
Yesssss I just finished part one like 30 seconds ago and part 2 is ready for me 😁😁😁
Left mormonism just 7 months ago. I relate to changing the words to fit better. Also the getting comfy or at least tolerate uncertainty. I was itchy with the reference to certain books or people
...experts or "contibuters" in the fueld of deconstruction. I have love/hate with "heros" or "know betters". My authority is I am. That me listens to the you are, we are and the powers that be. This presentation bordered a bit on knowing better than. Thanks
I bought a refrigerator magnet in AZ years ago that says: “A religious person follows the teachings of his church. ….A spiritual person follows the guidance of his soul.”
Good stuff, where did you find that?
Because of the title of this episode, I almost didn't listen. I'm glad that I did! She addressed how difficult it is to trust oneself after being duped, how anger is uncomfortable if you've always kept it suppressed, seeing it as a manifestation of Satan's power, and engaging with the idea that being selfless is not ideal. Self-FULL!
What a delightful, insightful woman. Thank you for sharing your journey!
I'm not really into poetry, but, damn! Your poem just brought tears to my eyes! Beautiful wisdom, indeed.
Lovely. So many tangents to explore. I am truly triggered by any Abrahamic religion where all the sweet lovely people come up to me and simply say, "We love you!" I am transported back to the chapel or church house immediately. I have found that I do need ritual but not in a group setting. Right now I am exploring the world that focuses on nature and the here and now. Celeste is delightful and it was a joy to follow her journey.
I have re-listened to her poem so many times. Thank you Celeste! The part about the forged name of Jesus brought me to tears. Thank you for articulating what I've never been able to.
Beautiful episodes! Celeste is so incredibly intelligent and thoughtful. I feel like I need to go back and listen again so I can dive deeper into some of the ideas she presented, books mentioned, etc. I kept having ah-ha moments! The idea of a spiritual director is new to me as well and a 💡 moment. AMAZING. Her poem about Jesus summed it all up for me though. Jesus has been weaponized in America and it makes me mad. I hate it. Celeste’s poem put words to my feelings. Thank you for that. ❤
That poem put into words everything I’m feeling since leaving the LDS. Thank you so much for giving me the words that I couldn’t speak❤❤❤
I hope Celeste comes back for another episode, because I want to hear more! I'm especially interested to hear her story about deconstructing monogamy, but I think she would also make a fabulous guest host!
Even as a life long non religious woman I can so easily relate to Celeste! Found myself reflecting throughout both episodes!
I LOVED these two episodes and absolutely adore Celeste and her authenticity, vulnerability, humanity and all-round-likeability. She has definitely hit her stride as a post-Mormon survivor and thriver. Couldn’t adore her and her journey more. Celeste, THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing your kindred spirit with me. I’m more than 30 years into my post-Mormon life and I am just this minute feeling like there’s another post-Mormon soul on this planet who ‘gets it’ (and therefore gets me) in a way that has felt so validating to my own meandering decades-long journey. Big Love, indeed. ❤
Oh my goodness how kind! Thank you Sarah!
This has been one of my VERY FAVORITE INTERVIEWS! Thank you so much Celeste and to you and Margi!
😢… need to watch another one of your podcasts and one of my favorites ~ part 4. I’ll get back to you! Totally different feeling with part two. Self centered and making money is what I walk away with after listening to the part 2. Instead of feeling unconditional love (Part 1) I am left so sad and confused…
The LDS Church started because of self indulgence and making money off of others. Only caring about yourself…
This 2pt interview was so amazing to listen to! I have been finally deconstructing after leaving the church a second time (but for real this time) and my sister in law recently confided in me that she left the church about a year ago. I will certainly be passing this along to her. ❤
She's fantastic, what a gift her perspective is to the universe!
Celeste’s story resonates so closely to my own. Thank you so much! You have no idea how much I needed to hear it!❤
Wow, wow! Celeste thank you for sharing so much of your experience, I resonated with so much of what you said. And your poem - articulates so beautifully such a hard part of deconstructing mormonism. Xxxx
Also a bajillion gold stars from me 🌟🌟🌟
I really appreciate this interview. I am so stuck in this phase of feeling like I need to "figure it out" but like Celeste, I just feel contented not really believing in God. I feel like there is so much shame and fear built into being athiest and the fact that it feels right to me and isn't jarring is kind of wild to me. I just never thought I would be here or feel this way, but like Celeste, here I am and I am embracing life. Thank you John, Margi, and Celeste for this amazing interview.
Love this. And absolutely, the combo of Margie and Celeste could be amazing and liberatory. Would love Celeste’s Jesus poem …Thank you so much!
Thank you SO much, Celeste! This video was incredibly timely for me. You said so many things that I have either thought or tried to express verbally. Some phrases that you said about deconstructing Mormon God are literally verbatim thoughts I have had and written down. It is nice to feel like I have someone intellectually/spiritually in my corner, when so many people in the church tend to misunderstand my struggles with the Mormon God and become extremely defensive or gaslight me when I bring them up.
Celeste, you are able to verbally express yourself the way that I have tried to….but I still stumble around a lot, being misunderstood.
I, Mr. Dehlin, was one of those people who irksomely said, “but why get rid of God and Jesus just because you found out that the church isn’t true?”
I have been on a continuum, like Celeste so eloquently said it is…..I keep finding out that the things that once fit, either don’t anymore, or they need to be rearranged or given a different assignment, etc. Everything is still in ‘flux’….and I am now realising, it may be in flux until I leave this realm. What I thought was correct and works for me today…..could, and most likely will, change tomorrow…..and as Celeste has said, ‘that’s okay!’
I am trying to not feel as disoriented as I once did, with the uncertainty and ever-changing outlook that I now have. I feel like a tumbleweed blowing in the wind right now….and just like that tumbleweed, as I am tumbling along, I am leaving little seeds in my path without meaning to…..like saying things that seemed right for me at the time, but I am not as aligned with now. This is beginning to give me pause….causing me to not want to say so much about where I am anymore at any given moment….because….THAT COULD CHANGE! And the things (seeds) that I said previously, are still echoing ‘out there’, impacting others. I have to take responsibility for that. I have to decide how I am going to manage that going forward…..ooooh, there is that ‘shame’ feeling creeping in! Ah well, what’s that saying? When we know better, we do better.
I just hope we all can allow each other enough grace to change and improve, and not be locked in by the things we did or said in the past. It’s when people hold you to what was said in the past, that makes it so hard to change and move forward…..as there will be some who will continually rub our noses in things that we once believed and gave voice to….but we no longer believe any longer….we have now moved on…..or are at least, trying to.
I think that this interview with Celeste Davis, is my most favourite one yet! I will have to listen to it again!
When I was in my very early teens, I remember being more like the person that Celeste is becoming….more open-minded, less judgemental, live and let live, etc. Somewhere along the way, it was beaten out of me. Had to follow others strict guidelines/rules, in order to ‘fit in’. Well, that hadn’t worked out too well!
I need to get back to where I was in my early teens and be open to finding out what works best FOR ME! Without allowing the narcissists in my life to try to guilt me into forgetting myself and serve only them. That has been a rather miserable path!
Thank you, Celeste, for sharing your insights! And thank you John and Margie Dehlin, for providing this forum for people like Celeste to share with us all!
What a kind and thoughtful post Grace! I can relate to so much. Thank you!
Thanks guys this was wonderful. Celeste you are a treasure and a gift for those trying to understand and get a grip on their own humanity. Thanks kiddo.
Loved loved loved listening to this interview. So powerful. ❤🎉
this episode explained to me why i've always been angry, nihilistic, confused, lost, depressed and anxious. i was stuck in disorder and never worked on the order piece because of my family dysfunction (i'm a never mormon). i struggled to understand and accept the systems around me. i couldn't wrap my mind around them because i didn't have an internal compass/consciousness. the systems always felt wrong to me, but i didn't know how to react to them.
My favorite guest yet!
One of my favorites interviews. Loved Celeste.❤
"God is my bubble bath" - I love that!
I relate to a lot of this. I am feeling betrayed by the church because its not true. The promises made took a lot of deconstruction which is still ongoing for me. I like the the term "My Big God."
I love your Jesus poem. Thank you for sharing your story. I loved so much of the time we shared with you.
This has been really significant for me non LDS. And your journey is nearly the same as most of us born in 50's, still dealing with being the "generation between".....
That poem was healing! Wow.
‘beliefs are overrated”….great bumper sticker! What a great slogan!
That poem about Jesus was an explosion of BadAssery! Felt it!
John your point at 1:16:00 was the single best thought expressed in the entire two part show. It was the recurring thought I had the whole time I listened to Celeste's deconstruction.
I was never mormon but this is my exact deconstruction and reconstruction story, save I no longer believe in any "god" that people have concocted. Thanks for sharing!
Massive respect.
John I’m glad you talked about c-ptsd and it being from more than the things people picture. I have never been mormon but I have been watching all your videos for months because I am a csa/incest survivor and I recognize the same tactics my parents used that the Mormon church uses. Religion can be a very complex trauma.
Thank you for having people on to share their journeys of leaving high demand religions and how hard the journey is after leaving. I grew up in what some would call mainstream religions but just recently realized I was traumatized by it. The judgment and shame was real. Being a person with a sever mental illness to begin with it definitely wasn’t helpful. I have experienced many traumas from being raped, domestic violence, abandonment from a parent, complex ptsd and am bipolar. Sorry not trying to make anyone feel sorry for me because I am a survivor and now want to find a way to help others. But living on disability makes that impossible. So I am reaching out to different people hoping for ideas. I have such compassion for anyone who has any type of crisis or struggles. Compassion and kindness are what this world needs more of. Thank you John and everyone who works with you for what your doing.
Yes! Your description of the Bible being a life span is what I’ve come to firmly believe!!!
That poem gave me all the tingles. Wow!
Wow! That poem Celeste wrote nails it beautifully! That is probably the most profound poem I have ever heard. Please let us know when and where it has been posted on a web site. It is clunky to forward an Instagram link instead vs a web site
You are amazing young woman!
Celeste was my favorite guest you have had since i have been watching!
I love the idea of asking 'What would LOVE do?'
LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
1:33:00 Good description of Substack AFAIK. Tony Ortega is a journalist who writes daily about Scientology. He used to have a blog and now writes on substack. I think the said he doubled his audience.
Wish that I had been given the same wisdom at her age to move away from the Church.. I think my life was taken away from the Church for many Years but didn’t go back due to shame not the actual truth. Now many (too many years later) discover the actual historical issues and truth and wish so much that I could have left it behind much sooner!
I love how the Catholic Church uplifts Mother Mary.
"I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall have no other Gods before me".
@iknitbecuzmurderisfrownedupon I think the Catholic church has longed explained their stance on that. It's getting old. Stop the lies.
Do you feel that's enough "good" to offset the harm?
@@jenniferflower9265 it's the Catholic church that lies. Tell *then* to stop lying.🙂
Catholics do not worship Mary, they venerate Her as the Mother of G-D.
Loved episode 1! ❤
Hey scramble.
Hey!!!!
I absolutely LOVE her idea of BIG LOVE. It’s how I feel.
Spiritual not religious to me means I don’t follow a religion. Mormonism ruined the idea of God and Jesus for me. I follow my intuition.
@@scrambledegg347 It was always been our own amazing Homo sapiens sapiens minds speaking to us
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
We need that poem!!!!!!!
John your rant, that is exactly 💯 the conclusion i have come to and at the same time feel stuck, and am a blank slate when it comes to desires.
Given the nature of man I personally can't imagine a world without the gospel of Jesus Christ. I dont count on the human compass making the world a better place.
Celeste... thank you. I'm in the clinging onto the church. I haven't been active for years. I no longer have a testimony, but my basic beliefs are Mormon and I don't know how to let go. Do I need to decide what is true and what isn't? You've got rid of Mormon God for me, but now what? Hahahaha. I don't expect an answer.
Happy to dialogue with you. For me I wanted to find out what is true. Just because Joseph Smith is a false profit doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t come as profesized and die for your sins.
Why do you need a non existent female god? How about the actual God?
Well, Truth is a Person....not a doctrine. Look up Matt Wilder's testimony.
I’m interested in your 40 part series about the true history of the church but it’s a lot to take in and very detailed. Do you have anything that is 2 to 3 hours to explain the most important parts? If not, I’d love to see that in the future. I’m from Southeast Idaho, if you know you know… I was baptized when I was 8 and never went back. I’m in a community surrounds me in Mormonism. It’s tough and understanding the history is very fascinating since I’m around it all the time. Thanks for all you do!
I loved the series with LDSdiscussions. It really needs to be listened to each one in order. There isn't a deadline so you can take it a bit at a time. I listen to a lot of podcasts on 1.5 or once I get really used to the voices 1.75. The good thing about the series is that every topic you could possible think about, it is broken down with the research backing it up. Take it a bit at a time and you will be able to breeze thru it.
The 15 second version: JS made it all up & was a con man from childhood to death.
@@IAmJustOneMom 🤣
@@amandaprather6573 just keeping it real for you.
@@IAmJustOneMom😂🎉🎉🎉
I'm watching exactly because of you guys putting the quotation marks around the word god. Perfect decision to do that. In fact before I started the first one, i told myself, I'm here for the always great, always insightful story of a hard journey, but if it starts veering into what new god did i invent for myself, I'll bail. Though I'm pretty sure every Mormon story I've started, I've finished.
Also I looove Celeste's fabulous sense of humor, Especially the ability to laugh so hard at her old self, while still being so kind and loving to her old self. I just love it and I'm trying to learn from her example.
Off topic question. Has Mormon Stores ever interviewed anyone who never actually believed in God, ever? Like maybe from birth? Haha. I ask because I was raised a pretty dang observant Catholic, but i truly never believed any of it was real or true. This sounds crazy, but i remember sitting in mass, i was only 4 or 5. It would have been during the homily, and the priest was talking about how God sees everything we do, you can't hide from God etc. He also mentioned remembering that to get to heaven. I just remember so clearly, looking around inside that church in disbelief that all those people seemed to actually believe this stuff. That was 1960
I didn't leave until around 2000. Over those years i tried hard to find a way to believe in God, or berated myself that i was missing something if everyone else believed. I dabbled in other churches secretly. ButI just put on a fake front and kept at it for all the usual reason, expectations. In my family, the most involved gets the most gold stars. i did every sacred rite, attempted to bring my children up in it etc. I was a lecter, they do readings during mass, I taught Catechism, sang in choir, did youth group etc. I did it all. And despite my firm disbelief, i still absorbed the confusing messages of guilt and shame.
I shared far more than needed here I'm sure, but I'd love to hear about a Mormon equivalent of me. I do wish the Catholics had an equivalent mission requirement. I'd have been officially out 20 years sooner.
It is formal is DSM, the diagnostic and statistical manual (whatever the latest version ). Book for psychiatrist for consciences for all.
General question: is the phrase "great question" a missionary phrase? I've noticed it said by so many people on Mormon Stories, almost as a knee jerk response to questions.
Great question!
Celeste is great! Blessings and kisses made me laugh!
I never got a notification for this, and when I checked your live listing earlier the same day, nothing came up.
I n the past few weeks, I watched several interviews (state approved) of several Russians about how life was now in Russia. 4 out of 7 of those who appeared to be over fifty quickly answered that it was terrible, "much better when they were'Soviets'". When asked why or how they answered the same way. "You always knew what to do. Didn’t need to think about it ". "I don’t
like having to always make decisions about everything". (They obviously misunderstood the focus of the question) Sound familiar to you? From NH, Patricia 👵🏻
The more Mormon Stories episodes (and other podcasts about similar subjects) I watch, the more I recognize how reading, when I was maybe 20 (35 y ago), Hofstadters 'Gödel Escher Bach - An eternal golden braid' influenced me. I especially related to Hofstadter explaining Gödels theorems (I'm not a mathematician). If even math as a VERY exact language has a fundamental flaw, there's no certainty. So I better deal with that. 🙂 (I recommend the Veritasium video - Math's fundamental flaw!)
Some teach that all joy is the gift of “god”
There are a few references to Buddhism in these talks. One key thing to notice is that John talks about secular Buddhism. This is an important point. Certain Buddhist traditions reproduce all the high-control problems we are familiar with from some Abrahamic traditions. If one does look into Buddhist tradition, or a new Abrahamic practice, pick and choose what works for you. The more authoritarian traditions absolutely hate that. They hate your recognition of your agency. Don't fall for it, and walk away, freely taking anything you want from them. They will claim to own "sunrise" and demand you pay admission. Don't pay. Just get up and watch, if you want to do so. The same with meditation and whatever other "sunrise" they claim to own. They don't.
John saying sky daddy had me rolled over 😂😂😂
Celeste is such a shining example of how an intelligent, good human being can believe anything....and then change. But how do we know "good" when we see it? Are we just born with an innate ability to know what's good? My personal experience is that our primary teacher of "good" is our mothers. My mother was not ambivalent about what was good behavior, even though she stopped being a part of the Baptist church after leaving Arkansas for the "good" life of California. She never talked about God or Jesus to me as a child, but she did talk about being "good". Where did she get her ideas about "good"? Probably from her mother or the Baptist church. We "know" what's "good" either directly or indirectly as in my case, from a religion which may teach things which are also "not good" by today's standards.
One of the things I notice about Celeste and most other guests on Mormon Stories is how personal the experiences are. American and Christian culture really emphasizes the primacy of the individual over the community. We tend to think that this is the normal thinking for all people and all cultures, but it isn't. Most cultures going back to cave-man days emphasizes the group, or community. These communities were held together by common stories of who they were, where they came from, what made them a people different from other communities. These stories were their religion and gave them strength to work together and survive. The Christian "story" expanded the community to include people who were otherwise different from each other. The Buddhist "story" did the same, as did all the great world religions.
John mentions the "Nones" as the fastest growing religious group in the country, which on the one hand is encouraging, showing that people are asking the hard questions and refusing to accept the old "story", the old answers which were tailored to the questions and beliefs of thousands of years ago. But it also shows that a culture with more and more "Nones" doesn't have a common story or myth to bring them together. Politics often provides myths to fill the vacuum, such as Fascism and Communism. Just a thought. Can we build a culture, a community, without a uniting mythology or story?
I like the idea of having spiritual companions. We need to express our beliefs, or non-beliefs, with others to help us clarify exactly what we mean. My experience is that we tend to have fuzzy thoughts about our beliefs until we can express them to others in words. Written words are the best because we can reflect on what we've written and then revise our words to come closer to what we mean. And like Celeste mentions, we probably won't "believe" the same things next month exactly as we do today, or at least we might find better words to express those thoughts next month. And maybe....we might be more mature next month, or next year, than we are today. When we're a child, we think like a child, and when we're an adult we (hopefully) think like an adult. And maturing never stops.
I don't IG how else can I follow/learn from her?
She mentioned starting a Substack….
I’m getting LDS church ads on here😂
Question for John: Just wondering why you chose not to practice as a psychologist after obtaining a PHD. Is it because Mormon Stories Podcast is a full-time project? Or was there another reason? Just curious
Yes. I fully completed my PhD. Just decided that MS was more than a full time job, and I was more interested in MS than in clinical psychology…especially given the large impact we are having. Touch wood.
True, The religious spirit is not of God. If you've ever truly accepted Jesus in your heart you don't lose him unless you cast him out because he will never leave you or forsake you. He's inside of you! I had an NDE back in 74, a serious care crash, where I left my body and was with the Lord Jesus. I don't care what your denomination is and neither does God. The Bible is the true living Word of God. God stays with you wherever you go. We all grow in the Lord our own way and these experiences are put before us for a reason. I went down that slippery slope after I left the LDS church. Sliding all the way the wrong way, towards a Jesus of my own creation for a time. I tried to fit him in my new life in a New Age type of thinking. That was my big mistake. I finally decided this isn't about me! It's for him and it's time I sacrificed my own will for God's will. I will never stray from the WORD of GOD ever again. No, I didn't return to the LDS religion. I'm a non denominational follower of Jesus, Yeshua and If something isn't backed my God's Word, I reject it. God warned me about that. I live for HIM. Not me.
This is one thing I have wondered. When people leave the church they often go to another high demand religion. I would imagine people who leave the LDS church would want nothing to do with any religion.
I love the concept of reincarnation and the oneness of everything.❤
I agree about the oneness! But reincarnation? I wouldn't want to redo the earth experience. Once is enough.
I think an opportunity was missed when you didn't call this part "Finding "God" in a bubble bath"
When you leave it's freeing and it's like you are now an adult you make choices
I am unmormon- A few things you have said or asked for this interview seems like you need to reflect on why - as a viewer you didn’t need to go there.
49:56 I'm usually more upset AFTER i try to meditate 😅
Why wait to create a life or your world until the next life? If the "kingdom of God is within us," why not start to create your own world while you can, NOW?
Study the God of Israel, we call Yahweh He, but his names include the feminine, nurturing side. God is the father, AND the mother who gives up his/ her son to save us. Not an angry Patriarch.
The church of your youth has biased your impression because the god they gave you was false.
❤
Question while listening @ 1:14:53, "everything is holy" - so what do we do with experiences that are clearly unholy - is being on the frontline in eastern Ukraine "holy"? Was being a Jew in Auswitch "holy"? Obviously not! You go down this path, and you run into the problem of distinguishing what is truly holy from what is not. And that is what authentic, healthy religion wrestles with. You're lying in the bathtub communing with all that is wonderful in the world, while your neighbour is homeless and suffering. This comment is from a person who grew up with the opposite kind of background to all you Mormons.
Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
It should be a federal offense to birth imocent children into a cult in America. If you're an adult and want such a life for yourself that's one thing. But we all know why it's all about the children in a cult don't we?
Not saying your life sucks without God. It is sad that Mormonism drove you to drop the living God. Jesus died on a cross. That happened. He rose from the dead.
So I loved these interviews. However, at the end, talking about just choosing what to believe doesn’t make sense to me. I can’t comprehend it. I cannot choose to believe anything. Belief to me is a result of evidences. If I believe anything, it has to be a natural result or conclusion of evidence, even if my reasoning is flawed. I can’t just believe something without reason
She talks at 95 miles an hour. Please John Dehlin can you have speakers talk at a normal pace? She has so much to say that is important, and she is so intelligent. But her racing speech pattern is too challenging to listen to.
That’s hard to manage.
Funny, she is still so lost, but that's okay. But maybe one day she will have a clue given to her.
Wouldn’t a more appropriate title be “Finding delusion after delusion”?