Nice power numbers. The Performer RPM did exactly what it’s designed to do made power in the lower rpm range. The Torquer did what it’s supposed to do make power in the upper rpm range. The cam has pretty healthy specs.050 and the 112 lobe separation is going to carry higher up the rpm range. I’ve seen similar results from the Engine masters show and Richard Holdner.
Thanks for the video Joe! I have a 512 (440) stroker w/TF 240 heads & headers running a basic performer intake purely on the street. Looking forward to your upcoming builds!
Nice work Joe thanks for the comparison between the intakes mopar muscle done one about 30 years ago i remember it not being as much difference between the two as i thought thanks for refreshing my old brain
Hi Joe , really nice vids, I´m a Mopar guy been since 1990´s just have to say you must bee some kind of a word class engine builder , head/intake porter and one heck of a tuner! Have built several enginies with similar parts and did port work myself but I´m not in the same ballpark as you when it comes to power and torque! newer seen high 0.3 to low 0.4 BSFC on a similar engine on my own SF901 dyno just cant understand how you get the engine that efficiant! congrats to you and your dyno guy! Mike.
Really wish dyno pulls started at lower rpms. Apparently, that's not possible? They typically start at 3,500, which is fine for drag racing. For street stuff, you drive like a sane person, it'd be nice to see numbers from 1,500 or so. Anyway great video! Kinda proves the dual plane for the street, single for the strip thing.
I remember Nick's Garage also having trouble pulling low rpms on torque motors like a long ram equipped 440. I think it's the dyno itself is incapable. 🤷♂️
Ran very nicely on the test stand ....enjoyed all 3 parts...see how well it moves his machine out....looking forward to seeing the up and coming builds ....good content and thanks....🔧🔧👍
Thanks for info on valve springs, from a machinist/engine builder picked out the right springs for my cam most machinists in my time would not tell you springs have to matsch the application
In my 1968 Barracuda fastback I run a 400 based 512 stroker with Trick Flow 240 heads and a hydraulic roller cam with 254 duration @.050 with 618 lift, all backed by an A833 4 speed manual. I run a 950 Quick Fuel carb. I've ran it with both a ported Edelbrock TM6 intake and with an RPM intake. I prefer the RPM, as it seems to recover better between shifts. 💪
Hey Joe, Tim here.....I knew the RPM wud make more TQ down low......but it did well........for a Race car, ur Torquer is a no brainer.......if its gonna be driven alot......i'd do the RPM.........I was gonna say, do u know Charles S........he IS an i take porting guru......You answered that for me......he's got GREAT talent.......and Vizard has used him a few times......so you had the right folk giving input........if this dude is gonna drive it alot......RPM........if its a Race car....ur TORQUER!!....thats my 2 cents.....TY brother!........intresting comparison........dual plane is for drivin, single plane is for racing!!.....PEACE my brother!!
The dual plane intake may have picked up a little with port matching. When you have that much engine though as you seen for yourself a single plane intake almost never hurts. Obviously better here. Even my small block builds get a single plane, 383 Chevy with small hydraulic roller 237@.050 let the torque converter get you up on the power. Bottom line for an engine that big going in a car I would always use a single plane intake. If it were in a 4x4 then probably the dual plane is a better option. Either way that engine is going to shred tires. 😂
Man that's a stump puller motor. 4000 to 5000 or 4500 to 5500. Torker as a rule is higher rpm power but this beast is 4000 rpm torque monster. As a steet motor it's going to be a hoot. If it hooks its going to eat u joints 😂. Your porting is very close to what I have done in the past. Ronny Sox always said its torque that moves a b body not hp and hp you want it to peak in the upper rpm. I have lived by his words and it served me well. I bet this motor would make a c body grunt 😂. Donk motor lol. I love everything about this build to be honest. ❤
If this is a mostly Street Engine, that Torquer is now wall art below 4000 RPMs. The RPM Air Gap killed it down low and hung in close enough to the Torquer above 4000 RPMs, it would be tough to justify the Torquer for street use. Maybe for strip use also. I would have liked to see a more modern single plane Victor intake tested on this engine. With longer runners, I think it would do better down low, and still do well up top.
I'd agree, for mostly street driving, the air gap is the better choice. I think with a 3,500-4,000 stall, it’d jump right up to that peak torque and like the torker better at the racetrack. I have the rpm on my 406 in my blue truck now. I wanted that extra grunt to help move the truck.
Great Engine Joe. Cool comparison of a single plane vs dual plane. Looks like a single plane doesn’t make a difference unless more radical can higher Rpm power band. Looking forward to the 512 with Trick Flows, but why not do the 270s ? 🦶🏾
Joe would u post the part numbers to this build. I want to copy this engine. 440 Source has a light weight crankshaft they offer for extra money do u have experience with one? I think ur the best Mopar guy on UA-cam right now.
I’m sorry I did not. We ran out of time on the dyno and had to get the engine off and in the shop before they closed for the day. I’ve heard that as well. But I know many Flat hood guys can’t run a spacer. The rpm did have a factory gap cut in the center divider. They must have seen a performance boost from that at edelbrock.
The Performer RPM is probably going to be a better street choice, in a stock stroke engine or even better in a 383 or 400. 440’s always make good torque even with bad compression. I think the extra foot pounds below 4,000 would help in a street car
Are you sure the specs are written down correctly on that cam card? I have a Comp Cam that is very similar except for the intake closes and the exhaust open are reversed compared to your cam card. The number is differ by 13 and 14 ° compared to your cam specs, one of these has to be wrong
By the way I have three other hydraulic roller cams I've tried and their numbers only differ by the Comp Cam by 5 or 6 degrees in One Direction or another. Part number of Cam is 23 - 000 - 11 Comp Cam
I don’t have anyway of knowing. But my cam man says “you have to make sure the timing events are at .050" or .006" or .020" or you can't compare them directly.” I think it’d be interesting to see the aggressiveness of the lobes on this cam. Steven Powell had excellent videos on that.
As I stated before, Beehive or Conical. Watch DVs video 🏁. I have dual plane intakes on all my street na vehicles. Roll in dyno low at 2600rpm at 300rpm... Thx for update, Joe.
Typical SP vs DP. Top end is always better on a hood single plane. Under 4k is better on a dual plane. Why didn’t you use the spacer on the RPM? RPMs always benefit from spacers. Which kind depends on the combo.
Joe, what do you think of a Tarantula TM6 vs a Holley Street Dominator on a 470" engine? It's going in front of a 4 Speed so I'd like to wind 'er up a bit like 6-6500. '69 actual A57 'Cuda😁
Nice power numbers. The Performer RPM did exactly what it’s designed to do made power in the lower rpm range. The Torquer did what it’s supposed to do make power in the upper rpm range. The cam has pretty healthy specs.050 and the 112 lobe separation is going to carry higher up the rpm range. I’ve seen similar results from the Engine masters show and Richard Holdner.
You're right, It did what it’s supposed to do. I’d bet he’s spinning tires at 2,000 rpm with dual plane!
Do you know what Aaron charges to Dyno an engine?
Thanks for the video Joe! I have a 512 (440) stroker w/TF 240 heads & headers running a basic performer intake purely on the street. Looking forward to your upcoming builds!
Thanks brother! You should hurt some tires with that combination!
Nice work Joe thanks for the comparison between the intakes mopar muscle done one about 30 years ago i remember it not being as much difference between the two as i thought thanks for refreshing my old brain
Thanks Ray!
Very interesting video. For street I'll take low end torque all day long.
Really enjoy your videos Joe!!
Thanks Peter. That 30 extra foot pounds would definitely move you down the road. I figure in this deal, he will already be spinning tires
That's about what I expected, fun test !!!
Thanks Tim!
This was a great series! It's a bonus that we will actually see it perform in the car. Great build Joe!
Thanks Brother Brad! I think it may twist that ratty satty someday!
Hi Joe , really nice vids, I´m a Mopar guy been since 1990´s just have to say you must bee some kind of a word class engine builder , head/intake porter and one heck of a tuner! Have built several enginies with similar parts and did port work myself but I´m not in the same ballpark as you when it comes to power and torque! newer seen high 0.3 to low 0.4 BSFC on a similar engine on my own SF901 dyno just cant understand how you get the engine that efficiant! congrats to you and your dyno guy! Mike.
Really wish dyno pulls started at lower rpms. Apparently, that's not possible? They typically start at 3,500, which is fine for drag racing. For street stuff, you drive like a sane person, it'd be nice to see numbers from 1,500 or so.
Anyway great video! Kinda proves the dual plane for the street, single for the strip thing.
I remember Nick's Garage also having trouble pulling low rpms on torque motors like a long ram equipped 440. I think it's the dyno itself is incapable. 🤷♂️
I agree with that. I bet the dual plane was making 600 foot pounds for a long time!
Great video. He’s going to have fun with this engine.That 572 coming up is gonna be a monster!!!
You bet, that 572 build is going to be awesome!
Hey Joe ; very good testing , profesional work. Thanx
@@MP-pz9oe thanks brother
Ran very nicely on the test stand ....enjoyed all 3 parts...see how well it moves his machine out....looking forward to seeing the up and coming builds ....good content and thanks....🔧🔧👍
Thanks for the support, let's see what kind of power they make!
Thanks Charles, we and I respect your opinion and work!
Sounds like it should be a great motor, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
Thank you! Appreciate the support!
Good video! Manifold porting can make a big difference! Thanks for the mention!
Thanks Buddy! And thanks for sharing your experience and tests
@JustMoparJoe You are welcome! I have some really interesting manifold testing coming up!
Thanks for info on valve springs, from a machinist/engine builder picked out the right springs for my cam most machinists in my time would not tell you springs have to matsch the application
Yes, good machinists know their springs!
In my 1968 Barracuda fastback I run a 400 based 512 stroker with Trick Flow 240 heads and a hydraulic roller cam with 254 duration @.050 with 618 lift, all backed by an A833 4 speed manual. I run a 950 Quick Fuel carb. I've ran it with both a ported Edelbrock TM6 intake and with an RPM intake. I prefer the RPM, as it seems to recover better between shifts. 💪
Sounds like you've got a great combo, I think that RPM would work really well!
Thanks Joe! And happy “Mopar” new year!
Happy Mopar New Year to you too!
Hey Joe,
Tim here.....I knew the RPM wud make more TQ down low......but it did well........for a Race car, ur Torquer is a no brainer.......if its gonna be driven alot......i'd do the RPM.........I was gonna say, do u know Charles S........he IS an i take porting guru......You answered that for me......he's got GREAT talent.......and Vizard has used him a few times......so you had the right folk giving input........if this dude is gonna drive it alot......RPM........if its a Race car....ur TORQUER!!....thats my 2 cents.....TY brother!........intresting comparison........dual plane is for drivin, single plane is for racing!!.....PEACE my brother!!
Thanks brother!
Awesome stuff Joe...AND you got some more dyno stuff for us too! 😍
Thanks brother! I’m excited to see how it goes
Love it Joe 👍🏻
I'm quite envious though, you have a lot of fun toys to play with!
I appreciate it. Happy Mopar New Year, buddy!
Nice test! I like the Charles Servdio porting and flow videos too.
Thanks brother
The dual plane intake may have picked up a little with port matching. When you have that much engine though as you seen for yourself a single plane intake almost never hurts. Obviously better here. Even my small block builds get a single plane, 383 Chevy with small hydraulic roller 237@.050 let the torque converter get you up on the power. Bottom line for an engine that big going in a car I would always use a single plane intake. If it were in a 4x4 then probably the dual plane is a better option. Either way that engine is going to shred tires. 😂
Yes sir. I’ve got the rpm on my 406 now in my blue truck. I figured the fast revving short stroke would like the extra torque to move the truck.
@JustMoparJoe Great ! Looking forward to see it go down the track. Maybe some cool cruising around down town Mexico with some tire BBQ 😄
Great comparison Joe! I have used the old Torker manifold on a 383 stroker. I think it’s a good intake.
You're absolutely right, the Torker is a great option for a 383! I have a TM6 that I may can try in the future on something
Awesome gotta love the big block torque.
Yes sir!
That's rock crawler torque. And the sound is a symphony.
Thanks brother
Man that's a stump puller motor. 4000 to 5000 or 4500 to 5500. Torker as a rule is higher rpm power but this beast is 4000 rpm torque monster. As a steet motor it's going to be a hoot. If it hooks its going to eat u joints 😂. Your porting is very close to what I have done in the past. Ronny Sox always said its torque that moves a b body not hp and hp you want it to peak in the upper rpm. I have lived by his words and it served me well. I bet this motor would make a c body grunt 😂. Donk motor lol. I love everything about this build to be honest. ❤
It will definitely get the job done!
Either intake and you have gobs of torque Joe. It's a heck of a nice build!
Thanks Mike!
Just busting your balls sir!!👍👍👍
Appreciate it, it’s all in good fun!
If this is a mostly Street Engine, that Torquer is now wall art below 4000 RPMs. The RPM Air Gap killed it down low and hung in close enough to the Torquer above 4000 RPMs, it would be tough to justify the Torquer for street use. Maybe for strip use also. I would have liked to see a more modern single plane Victor intake tested on this engine. With longer runners, I think it would do better down low, and still do well up top.
I'd agree, for mostly street driving, the air gap is the better choice. I think with a 3,500-4,000 stall, it’d jump right up to that peak torque and like the torker better at the racetrack. I have the rpm on my 406 in my blue truck now. I wanted that extra grunt to help move the truck.
Awesome !
That's really interesting 🧐😊
It was a good test to see the differences!
there may not be space for it but joe milodon puts a conical piece in the plenum floor of the torker for olds and picks up 20 to 30 sum hp
That’s interesting!
Great job, Joe! This "little" engine is going to hurt some feelings.
Thanks! I hope it runs good!
Great Engine Joe. Cool comparison of a single plane vs dual plane. Looks like a single plane doesn’t make a difference unless more radical can higher Rpm power band.
Looking forward to the 512 with Trick Flows, but why not do the 270s ? 🦶🏾
The man chose the 240’s as a package deal here locally. He has 270’s to use on a different build. I’d love to see 700 both ways from that engine,
@ your practically there already should be pretty easy for you
Joe would u post the part numbers to this build. I want to copy this engine. 440 Source has a light weight crankshaft they offer for extra money do u have experience with one? I think ur the best Mopar guy on UA-cam right now.
Thank you, Robert! Can you shoot me an email justmoparjoe@gmail.com
Numbers are numbers, the real test will be the butt-dyno when it’s back in the car and making big smiles 👍
Yes Sir
Great stuff. Maybe you can get yourself a Dyno..lol i would love to see if water injection helps in making power..
Thanks brother! I’d love to have one
Old school Torker wins again!
When I raced back in the 70s the torker was best on 440s. On 340s the dual plane was better for auto cars. Not much has changed.
Very nice info very informative, Did you try RPM with a 1" spacer? Usually from what I seen is that Dual Plane intakes require more Plenum volume,
I’m sorry I did not. We ran out of time on the dyno and had to get the engine off and in the shop before they closed for the day. I’ve heard that as well. But I know many Flat hood guys can’t run a spacer. The rpm did have a factory gap cut in the center divider. They must have seen a performance boost from that at edelbrock.
@@JustMoparJoe Thanks very much
Interesting, I figured that Torquer would have been better all around, but then again the RPM had better readings at less rpm 😊
The Performer RPM is probably going to be a better street choice, in a stock stroke engine or even better in a 383 or 400. 440’s always make good torque even with bad compression. I think the extra foot pounds below 4,000 would help in a street car
Great comparison Joe 😁 thanks for the content you put out. You are about to be in big business with building BBM my friend 👍
Appreciate it, man. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Are you sure the specs are written down correctly on that cam card? I have a Comp Cam that is very similar except for the intake closes and the exhaust open are reversed compared to your cam card. The number is differ by 13 and 14 ° compared to your cam specs, one of these has to be wrong
By the way I have three other hydraulic roller cams I've tried and their numbers only differ by the Comp Cam by 5 or 6 degrees in One Direction or another. Part number of Cam is 23 - 000 - 11 Comp Cam
I don’t have anyway of knowing. But my cam man says “you have to make sure the timing events are at .050" or .006" or .020" or you can't compare them directly.” I think it’d be interesting to see the aggressiveness of the lobes on this cam. Steven Powell had excellent videos on that.
👍💪
🫡
👍👍👍👍
🫡
👍👍👍👊👊👍
🫡
As I stated before, Beehive or Conical. Watch DVs video 🏁. I have dual plane intakes on all my street na vehicles. Roll in dyno low at 2600rpm at 300rpm... Thx for update, Joe.
I think you’re right on that! The dual plane intake is a good choice for street engines.
💪🇺🇸
Thanks John!
Typical SP vs DP. Top end is always better on a hood single plane. Under 4k is better on a dual plane.
Why didn’t you use the spacer on the RPM? RPMs always benefit from spacers. Which kind depends on the combo.
I sure wanted to, but ran out of time that day. I have a tm6 to try someday versus the performer rpm
Oh wait. I thought it was a dyno at the rear wheels. 😂😂
😂😂😂😂
So take 100 Hp off and we’re close sir!!!
Man, I just "knew" the RPM would make 700 ft;lbs. I guess not!
That rpm was making nearly 30 more foot pounds under 3,500 rpm. That’s serious consideration for the application
Dang! That almost 200 more HP than my 383!
ua-cam.com/users/shortsecvtw16qK8o?feature=shared
@@stevodakine1 cool video! Every mopar engine has a purpose.
@ I’m not worthy!
Torque!!! He will have trouble keeping tires on it
Absolutely! Happy new year, buddy!
too confusing !
Joe, what do you think of a Tarantula TM6 vs a Holley Street Dominator on a 470" engine? It's going in front of a 4 Speed so I'd like to wind 'er up a bit like 6-6500. '69 actual A57 'Cuda😁
That’s awesome! I love my street dominator, but have always heard that a tm6 is one of the best! I have a tm6 to try someday on the dyno as well.