Why I Stopped Using Wonderdraft | Inkarnate Review
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- I switched to Inkarnate from Wonderdraft about a year ago and I thought it was finally time to talk about why!
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Welcome to the info paragraph, this is a place to feed the great algorithm, and if you've made it here you have probably scrolled too far! Icarus Games is dedicated to helping TTRPG players and game masters improve their experience in roleplaying games. For RPG players, there are videos on learning games rules, as well as on character building, roleplaying, and optimization. For Game Masters, there are videos on making maps, improving your worldbuilding for your RPGs, and for creating homebrew TTRPG content.
00:00 Intro
01:21 Wonderdraft Stagnation
02:30 One Time Purchase Vs Subscriptions
04:51 Inkarnate Overview
18:03 Holden Overview
20:47 Jewel Cities of Talavaar Overview - Розваги
So what do you think of Inkarnate, and if you're currently a Wonderdraft user, how are you feeling about the state of the app right now?
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When Inkarnate changes their intellectual property agreement I may consider it. I refuse to use Inkarnate because everything I would do (if that is used in a commercial product) THEY OWN. No way will I use it until they change it. Inkarnate, the Tik Tok of mapping apps. 🤣
@@helixxharpell That's not actually the case. It comes from overly aggressive boilerplate wording from an old agreement and the current one is different. Inkarnate doesn't own the copyright to work you create on their platform, but you do grant them the right to use it for promotional purposes etc. You'll find this kind of clause on pretty much any tool that allows you to make content with assets as it makes their marketing easier, but it also protects them legally if they make maps that look coincidentally similar to one of their thousands of users.
I still use Wonderdraft, namely because of a variety of modded assets and I generally like the color palettes more. Plus I’m very subscription service weary and I really can’t justify yet another one.
But I do agree that there needs to be an update or an official asset booster pack or something on Megasploot’s side.
I find Wonderdraft's maps look more organic most of the time for me. Though I do feel my hand will be forced if updates stay slow.
With pay-once software, large updates need to pay for themselves via increasing sales. This is hard to accomplish.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. To be honest I'd be ok with a paid update or even a Wonderdraft 2 (particularly if we get better support and assets for city sized maps, which are a bit of a problem now).
I'll never understand why Megasploot didn't go whole hog on Citydraft after WD and DD's success. The community was crying out for it, and it would have been amazing. When Tailwind announced they were working on a video game next that's when I knew that meaningful development on the 'draft apps was dead, at least for a while.
I just can't shake the idea that one day Inkarnate could just close its doors (for whatever reason), and boom your tool is gone, potentially your maps too. And what if you lost your account somehow? Etc. As buggy and content droughted as Wonderdraft is, it's hard to beat DRM-free local-run software. I know with absolute certainty that I'll always be able to boot up my map and use the thing I bought.
I'd sooner spend $200 on a self-host option of Inkarnate than pay $200 for 8 years of Inkarnate.
And, y'know, most of us don't make $$ off D&D, nor do we want to do so, so subscription fees just don't make sense.
That's completely fair. Localized software is a big draw for a lot of people.
Yes, an online-first software could go away, but for me personally the benefits I get from the subscription out way the potential negatives. When I was using Wonderdraft and Dungeondraft, I was paying more than the cost of Inkarnate to various third party asset creators to get higher quality assets. So for me it makes sense to pay a little over $2/month (with the annual plan) tor Inkarnate, even without considering being able to money off it; I'm happy to pay for the convenience.
@@IcarusGames Thanks for the reply!
$2/mo is a great point. I am miserly enough that I'm writing my own tool for my map display instead of grabbing the $7.5/mo for LegendKeeper. I just need to have players click around, see what's available, read lore at their leisure. (WIP - is-iota(dot)gitlab(dot)io(slash)itlas if I make it modular enough I'll share it open source)
But $2? Yeah, that's a good deal. I have plenty of cases where I pump and dump maps (dungeons/wilderness encounters) that I wouldn't mind losing forever.
Looks like I can upload up to 100 custom textures with Pro Inkarnate. While the cap is annoying, I understand why (because it's an upload, not local). That is very tempting as I'd be able to keep the feel of my DungeonDraft maps with the gameripped textures I have.
My frustration with Wonderdraft is that some stamps are too big even at the smallest size and others are too small even at the biggest size - I could work with it if it were off what I want in a constant way! But I don't really want to switch to Inkarnate partly because I hop between hobbies too much to justify a monthly subscription that I'll only use occasionally, and partly because I just don't love how their maps look, even with your customizations.
I should probably make my own stamp set for Wonderdraft and use that, but until I do, I tend to use Wonderdraft for the world generator and river tool and make a rough draft, then draw over it in photoshop. I honestly find hand drawing faster than trying to make stamps work, though I know that's not the case for everyone.
I've always struggled on where to start when making new cities (especially the larger ones) in Inkarnate or any map builder. I had never thought to use Watabou as an underlay to build over! Genius... will save me so much time with making the space seem organic instead of just square blocks of buildings! 🥰
I went completely opposite direction. Lack of assets in Wonderdraft and cost of people made addons made me learn how to make own assets. At one point I realized I can actually do it all now in Photoshop and have no reason to use WD.
I'll still use Wonderfraft because I love the community around it.
I was genuinely surprised at how easy Inkarnate was to use. For my first map, I checked through the free templates from other users for the style/look I wanted. I then looked at the assets/tricks they used to create the map and emulated them. Managed to create lots of awesome looking dungeon maps for my campaign this way.
Looks like a neat program but anything with a subscription model is hard pass from me.
Same, I'd rather buy a digital drawing tablet and just make my own maps than pay for a subscription. I'm sticking with Wonderdraft for now, but I'm really considering brushing up on my digital art skills.
100%. The free version does deliver quite acceptable results though and if you can finish your map within a month it´s kind of like purchasing a single custom map for 5 bucks. If you prepare 10 maps in the free version and just finish them up within a month of pro it gets even better. So this model can be okay imo
Just got into Inkarnate. Thank you very much for this knowledge. Have a splendid day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
Thanks for the video. I'm working on my home brew campaign setting using PF2E rules and was looking for the perfect map tool. I'm using Wonderdraft and Dungeondraft at the moment but struggle to find the right assets - especially for city maps. Guess I'll try out Inkarnate now. Thanks again!
Inkarnate is nice but I think the thing I dislike about it is that it almost always looks like an Inkarnate map, I can always tell. Plus I hate how their rivers look. The style you can get from wonderdraft seems better to me and responds much better since it isn't in a browser. Idk what features I could really even need as additional features. Kind of waiting for Project DEIOS to release at this point.
Also I disagree about the point of sub services fighting for your money. In reality they are fighting for you to forget you pay for it, the gym model
I alluded to this in the video, but the "inkarnate look" (similar to the Wonderdraft look) is a result of folks putting down stock assets on stock textures in the wrong scale and doing little to no "post processing" work on the map. I have done a video talking about some of the ways to get around this in the past, and its something I want to do another video on soon.
To be fair though, most folks just don't have the time needed to elevate a map beyond looking like a standard map of whatever program you are using.
@@IcarusGames time is indeed a rare commodity, but inkarnate is probably the better option for most users these days who don't want to spend lots of time customizing things with custom assets like you kind of have to with wonderdraft. I'll need to check out that video you mentioned as I've done very little post processing myself, good video though, thanks!
To the debate: pay once vs pay monthly, I'd say a middle ground would be best for those kind of softwares. Pay once and you get a version that's updated for a few years, then enventually a new version come up and you have to pay again. Like it was the case with Photoshop in the old days.
This is the best of both worlds because pros can still use it like a subscription thing, were they always have the better version, for a price. And amateurs like me (I do like 4-5 maps per year, max) can buy once and still use an outdated version years after.
I'm blown away by how much you can zoom in and how easy is to generate land mases, i was using Dungeondraft to make a big map but the limitations made me hunt for another tool, this is great and thanks for replying to my earlier comment.
liked and subscribe ❤
Another great Video sir. I got into using Wonderdraft after an intro vid from you and I do still love it (and Dungeondraft) but there are a couple of things in this Inkarnate video that will make me tryout Inkcarnate for a bit at least.
I've been getting frustrated with Wonderdraft's lack of improvements and wondering about Inkarnate, so I really appreciate this review. I've got a couple specific questions I'm hoping you can comment on:
- One of the thing I really like about Wonderdraft is its noisy / fractal addition and subtraction of coastline, so you can kind of carve away at a simple coast and it just ends up looking really good to me. Does Inkarnate have similar capability?
- I often make regional or world maps and then want to make a new map blowing up some portion to max size and adding more detail. Similarly, I may want to take a smaller map, shrink it, and make it the start of a larger map, or take the east edge of one map and copy it to become the west edge of a new map covering a neighboring region. Wonderdraft has been pretty clunky at this. How is Inkarnate with this kind of thing?
Thanks!
Inkarnate does have a kind of fractal feature, but it's not as good as WD, especially for making a world map vs a zoomed in country or region.
You can make a new map by blowing up part of an existing map in Inkarnate, like in WD, but you can't stitch multiple maps together in either program I don't believe.
Thank you very much for this! I am wondering if one can draw maps in Inkarnate by using a stylus on a pad and/or on a 2-in-1 laptop screen?
You can indeed! It's how I do a lot of my land form drawing and most of my color work with my graphics tablet.
@@IcarusGames Thanks for your answer, appreciate it. Can a 2-in-1 laptop + stylus be used for the same purpose?
@@veyselsimsek9416 Yeah that should be fine!
Wow it looks like inkarnate has improved a lot since I last used it. Might have to give it a shot thanks
Can you import an image and use it as a template to draw a map?
You can import images to use as stamps and lower the opacity of them to trace them and use them as templates.
I used to use Wonderdraft for my world and city maps but the lack of updates really is annoying. Dungeondraft combined with FA assets is still is the best battle map tool imho, but I switched to Inkarnate for my cities and world and it just wonderful. I don't mind fiddling with software and adding stuff to make it to my liking (my Foundry VTT installation is moduled out beyond recognition) but there is something great about Inkarnate and all the really high quality assets that come out of the box with it.
This was pretty much what happened to me. Loved WD and DD, one time purchasing, and supporting a small business. But on a whim tried Inkarnate and immediately shifted to only using it. Way more assets and can do a lot more.
Good point on SaaS models; I've always been of the mind of buying a product once but it can hamstring getting more support for the product.
Nice re-evaluation of Inkarnate vs. Wonderdraft. I am ABOUT to purchase a map-making program and I am finalizing my decision. I like the "one-time" purchase idea, but your explanation of the "monthly" pay scheme makes sense (as long as they hold up THEIR end!)
The FIRST feature I am looking for is how easy is it to generate jagged and randomized coastlines-I'd HATE to have to do that for an entire 8K world map with several continents and tons of islands.
The whole world auto generation is still better in wonderdraft than inkarnate, which doesn't seem to really make a world with auto generation but more like a zoomed in section.
Im only using Maps for my Writing and not Pen and Paper. Would you still suggest givinh this a try?
It's definitely worth checking out the free version and having a play!
So as a world builder still hand drawing there worlds and every thing, how big can you make a map, I'm wanting to build a new world that has two large continents and a smaller one with a heathy spattering of little islands all around. another thing is how big of a pc will i need to run this program, I'm still operating a lap top from 13 or 14 years. this seems to be a good thing for me to dive into.
Surprised to see how much it has evolved. Might give it another shot, depends on pricing though.
How did you do the rivers???
The rivers are a couple different methods. Some of them are done by erasing the landform, but that isn't my prefered way of doing it.
Instead I prefer to use the path tool, and play around with the blend settings to get the path to match the color of the coastline water and then flatten them to the BG so they become baked into the image. Don't flatten to BG until then end though or any texture and color work you do on the ground will overwrite the river.
has paid inkarnate got already overlay option to upload a sketch of a map like wonderdraft?
You can upload images as custom stamps in inkarnate, then place them down at a low opacity to trace them, which is what I've done to remake maps in inkarnate that were made in other mediums.
Can you do a video on how you use incarnate to make a full dungeon map? I used it 2 years ago and hated making full dungeon maps on it, dungeondraft was better for full maps. Not sure about now
Dungeondraft is still better at the moment purely for drawing rooms that snap to the grid. That feature is coming to Inkarnate, and as soon as it does, I'll be sure to make a video talking about it!
@@IcarusGames im wondering if i can make the map in dungeondraft or dungeonscrawl and then import it to incarnate to use their assets
You’ve switched to pathfinder 2e and Inkarnate❤ my dreams have come true
Doesn't inkarnate own whatever you make?
Kind of. By making something on the platform you give them a non-exclusive royalty free right to use the material, but not ownership of the created work outright.
With the pro subscription you can use the platform to make commercial maps.
So, I can’t buy a lifetime access to Inkarnate, AND they get to use anything I make for free? WTF is that?
I disagree that they have to “fight for your subscription” every month, because eventually the fallacy of sunk costs kicks in for a lot of creatives. Unless you’ve become strapped for cash and/or found an alternative that you like better, that psychology will sink its barbs into a lot of people who would otherwise walk away from a sun based service. It’s not like they couldn’t afford to have a handful of customers buy in for life at a high price, and let people who want to sub continue to do so.
@@spazzmo yeah
Maps are owned by the creators, not Inkarnate :)
If I could just purchase Inkarnate Id use it more but I dont use it enough to justify an ongoing subscription, also Id really love an overlay feature to be able to bring in my maps and recreate them in Inkarnate. Finally I like the ability to use my own and add assets on Wonderdraft rather than being stuck with what Inkarnate gives you. That said Wonderdraft has apparently went dormant and not adding anything and its far from complete or a perfect program itself but only paying once is a major plus
after watching the video, I do like how you did your city with Watabous generator and Im gonna have to try that as city design is something Im not good at and never liked the plain generic maps you get from Watabou and other like generators
A couple points;
You can import a pre made map as an asset in Inkarnate and reduce the opacity to trace over it, I do that all the time.
You can also add up to 100 of your own assets to Inkarnate which are available across projects.
@@IcarusGames yeah things have changed or I just didnt know how to use when I last really tried but they could still be improved upon to make it easier but now it looks like my biggest gripe is subscription vs 1-time payment. I hate subs as I dont use things enough to warrant constantly paying for them or paying a yearly fee no matter the price and if Im paying a sub I end up just using things to justify the payment instead of when I actually want to use them.
It seems like Ircarnate is good if you like the gamy maps most commonly used in PF2 and other ttrpg adventures.
I prefer more simplefied maps closer to real world maps.
It depends what you mean by simplified maps closer to real world maps. A lot of modern real world maps are flat colors and simple shapes, which you can absolutely do in things like Inkarnate (or Wonderdraft), but apps like these are obviously designed for fantasy map makers first and foremost, so those are the kinds of map you see most often.
Like, I could absolutely make a google-maps or ordinance survey style map in Inkarnate or Wonderdaft; I would rather use a vector based software like Affinity Designer because it would be faster, but you could do it.
I have gotten some good results out of Wonderdraft, but it's not enjoyable. It's like trying to paint with boxing gloves on my hands. It's clunky, it crashes, it makes my Mac overheat. I appreciate this video, I may have to take the plunge.
I personally really strongly disagree. I'm not sure what it is, but since the start all inkarnate maps have this strange aspect to them that leaves them all feeling the same, and for me the finished products never looked how I wanted them to. Where Wonderdraft has allowed me to easily make high quality maps consistently, while leaving room for different styles and themes.
Not to mention, you don’t really get anything for the subscription. Inkarnate doesn’t really give any useful updates to features. And the asset additions are mostly meaningless with the ability to use custom assets in wonderdraft, especially with how vibrant the custom asset community is. And that overcomes the issue of low resolution assets.
Agree, never liked the art at all.
I enjoy the WD base assets, the just aren't high enough resolution for me. And after about a year of paying more than $5/month on custom asset creators for WD I decided to switch to Inkarnate.
A lot of Inkarnate AND wonderdraft maps look very samey, because folks are putting down stock assets on stock textures in the wrong scale and doing little to no "post processing" work on the map. I have done a video talking about some of the ways to get around this in the past, and its something I want to do another video on soon.
Why would you repay for the same thing every year?
For all the reasons mentioned in the video, but the biggest one for me is frequent updates and improvements.
Thank you for the video. Commenting for the Algorithm.
Personally, I'm looking forward to CC4. I use WD for world maps - just looks better. Having said that, DD is getting pretty old with certain functions just not available and really clunky. Inkarnate is meh, but city maps are cool. Dungeons aren't much chop IMHO unless you use their level functions which is a positive aspect.
Dungeons are by far Inkarnate's biggest weakness. Without the snap to grid room tool they just can't compete on square-based maps. That's why I'm excited for the dungeon room tool to finally make it into Inkarnate!
Apparently wonderdraft is considered feature complete
Inkarnate is a bargain and brings a professional sheen to my rather amateur mapping efforts. The tutorials posted by the devs on YT are also well worth a watch. The impression is that the tool will go on developing and being progressively more powerful.
I could be wrong but I thought one of the major criticisms of inkarnate is that the creator doesn't retain the rights to whatever they've made in the software? Maybe that's a different program.
It may have been different in the past, but that's not quite correct for how the current ToS work: inkarnate.com/terms/
Basically, you own the copyright to works you create (of course), but grant Inkarnate a royalty free license to use those works in promo etc. If you share maps on the explore page, those become creative commons, and if you pay for the pro version you can make money from your maps (though if you stop paying, Inkarnate can use the site files for promo etc as they want).
From what I've been able to find online from the past license, it seems like Inkarnate were trying to do pretty standard SaaS protection stuff, but worded their ToS a little aggressively, but that has since been clarified.
In reality, it's no different than most platform's ToS; most of them have you give away a measure of ownership of the things you make as a way for the platform to not get sued for similar content.
wonderdraft was in my cart after the videos you posted 4++ years ago and i was about to pay for it but continued to look at reviews, thank god i found this video! ill likely try inkarnate out!
honestly wonderdraft was expected to fall back due to lack of updated features or extreme reliance on community modifications and its not really best for newcomers that dont know much on map making. inkarnate is very easy to set up maps and organize them with their sub for a year is damn cheap. another known one is dungeon alchemy which is pricey but easily generates detailed maps and customize specific things to the user liking.
overall: comes down to how ui is design and newcomer experience.
I don't think Wonderdraft is in any way more difficult to get into than Inkarnate for a newcomer. For me, the big reason to switch came from lack of updates form WD, and just consistent new content from Inkarnate, which means I'm not reliant on 3rd party creators in WD, many of whom have a monthly charge to access their newest assets anyway.
Yes, wonderdraft is already showing it's age.
I desperately NEEDS a UI redesign with many new features. And... optimization. It's a RAM hog!!!!
Changing the overall hue of symbols and textures, adding the option to configure the extent of the waves around the coastline, integration with dungeondraft, more customization for hex grids (I need smaller ones!), the ability to add other styles of grids, adding MULTIPLE overlays, allowing the user to set their own organization for symbols and colors in an easy way, etc etc etc
When DD was born, WD started to die. It's clearly agonizing; and yet... It is still considered by many superior or preferable to inkarnate and many other mapping software. Despite the lacking features, bugs and stagnation. To me, that says LOADS about the business model.
I just find Wonderdraft maps look much prettier, natural and organic. The Inkarnate assets always seem to result in a cartoony maps instantly screaming: inkarnate! I do understand why people would choose Inkarnate though, for the bigger asset library and constant support and updates. I'll just stick to Wonderdraft though for as long as I find the maps coming from it prettier than those from Inkarnate.
Subscription model is a hard pass. You are essentially over paying for anything when it requires a subscription.
I understand the sentiment, but I do disagree with it as a blanket statement. Using map tools as an example; Wonderdraft is a one time payment, but it's no longer being developed, so it's as good as it's ever going to get without third party support (many of whom require subscriptions via patreon etc to keep updated.), whereas Inkarnate has gotten incrementally better over time and continues to get new features and content regularly.
If you're paying a subscription and the service isn't also continuing to improve, then I'm with you, I'd rather have a one time purchase for a stable release.
I wholly disagree with subscription based programs. If I want to make 4 maps a year, or maybe even less, that's a lot of money for not a lot of use. A publisher should be providing updates to their product because they want new customers and they don't want their current customers to leave when they see something shiny somewhere else. I wouldn't even mind if it was a small single time charge for a new feature as long as the feature is implemented well, is useful, and they aren't trying to charge as much as for what a used car used to cost.
The yearly sub works out to a little over $2 a month, so it's definitely worth it for me. YMMV.
All of these programs are cool and all but why not just draw your map?
Because my drawing skills are like that of a newborn child, and I'd like my players to be able to understand what's going on 😂
The whole "you cant use what you create under free subscription for commercial use, but we can use it as we chosoe royalty free. Oh, and while you can use what you create under Pro subscription in commercial products, but again we retain the right to use them ourselves wihtout royalties" thing reeks too much of the bullshit Hasbro/WOTC tried to pull with the new OGL last year. They might do nothing with it, but thats questionable ethics. Ill pass.
So, couple of things relating to this.
You'll find those kind of terms in pretty much all SaaS things that involve user generated content. The vast majority of the time it's there to cover the company to use user-generated content in marketing and not be obligated to credit or pay.
Now, most companies do still at least credit the specific users when they use their created works in marketing, and typically as the companies grow you find someone from their SM team will reach out to people to ask them if they are OK for the company to use the content to share on socials out of courtesy.
Inkarnate's terms specifically call out that the license doesn't grant them ownership of anything, so they don't suddenly own your copyright or anything.
On the flip side, most one-time purchase software will have a condition in their EULA which states that you are only licensing the software, not purchasing it. Wonderdraft, for example, says in part 4 of the 'Grant of License': "This SOFTWARE is licensed, not sold." So a company selling you a 1-time purchase could in theory introduce an update that changes it to a subscription model. They almost certainly wouldn't because the backlash would huge, but by the EULA they could.
All of these digital tools have got stuff like that in their EULAs, and for sure there's the potential for them to be abused, but the inclusion and wording is fairly common.
Inkarnate allows them to use your maps WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION for whatever they want to as explicitly stated in their EULA. Even for the free trial.
so. No. While I accept your opinion I will not be changing to something that is basically saying by using it I am able to steal your work.
I used Inkarnate ((Free)) first and then I heard about wonderdraft through a comparison video after trying to find tutorials on youtube about how to make good maps ((because I suck at it)) Now I wasn't exactly 'thrilled' about a subscription as I, like many, feel like Subscriptions are a double edged sword but at the same time I figured that I'd buy a month at the $5 price, since I could justify fiver as a small price to pay for a "Full trial run" and just cancel.
The "Pro" concept really didn't sell me either. I got a bunch more in the way of stock stuff but at the same time it's... bland? I'm not sure if that's the word to use but the more I made maps on it the more I felt like this wasn't the one for me. So I took a dive and paid for Wonderdraft and I gotta say it's a lot better. It's better for me to use, I make nicer maps on it and it feels like I can do most of anything on it instead of just "strict this stuff"
Now I know that people say you can tell that a map is made by wonderdraft due to the appearance and 'quality' or lack therof, but honestly for my group at least, we're not here for the high rez maps. We just want something to use to help us work on it.
I might keep trying Inkarnate out for the zoomed in cities and such but I think that at least I'll be getting my monies worth out of Wonderdraft for a while.