He isn't the only one! If it is a topic you find interesting I suggest Corey Gil Shuster's channel with street interviews of Palestinians and Israelis.
@@joyduncan9434 They start indoctrinating VERY early, thanks to UNWRA! They have 27,000 employees, mostly Palestinian. Which is great! But their report just came out, which is online (UN Watch has it), says that almost all the teachers are Hamas. And Hamas replaced all the textbooks and curriculum. Google also MEMRI Kindergarten graduation class play and watch those adorable 5 yr olds with their parents standing by beaming and taping them as they reenact Oct. 7th, or some other monstrosity. But they sure are cute! Wonder how cute they will be in 10 years?
@@jazzman1904propaganda, IDF are the ones who dropped the bombs, killed children and babies, not HAMAS, most criminals including Trump always blame someone else, lost souls
Just try and look up the history of the so called Palestinians ,in Kewait ,Jordan,the Lebanon and Egypt and wonder why they will not help or tolerate them. I also believe they were also a problem in Syria
@@Wawi633 Hamas targets children (among other civilians), including the children of "their" own population. Israel doesn't. Tell me how would you destroy a terrorist organization in a highly populated urban area when they gladly use their own people as human shields (and people gladly agree, because they believe they're going to become martyrs and live in paradise). Please enlighten me. Israel takes absolutely unprecedented steps to keep gazans safe. BTW, where is your anger about millions (!!!) of dead arabs and muslims in the Middle East in the last decade? No? Silence? That's what i thought, hypocrites at their best.
Israel offered Egypt money to accept refugees and they refused as it would certainly destabilize their country. There are growing numbers, some say 100,000 Gazans gathering near the Rafa crossing in desperate circumstances. They might force their way out, and maybe that’s what Israel is hoping for
The is no genocidal mind against Jews. That was in the past. The real genocide is happening now in Gaza. ThreePalestinian students were shot in Burlington, Vermont. One is paralyzed from the waist down. Where is the outrage in congress against Islamophobia? One has to be concerned about both, to be fair.
So similar war-wise to going into Iraq. Afghanistan could be understood, Iraq not. So all the sympathy the U.S. received from the world was lost by doing what we did.
@thestuffoflife88 things would be much better if we didn't have to deal murderous islamic terrorists. Also you don't know much about history to make such a statement. Look up a guy name Mao zedong
I don’t understand why Ha-mas is called a terrori$t organization and Israel’s action from 1948-to 10/7/23 is not considered terroi$m. Can oppressed people be terroi$t?
1. They can. Terrorism is achieving political goals thru violence against civilians (and only civilians) and terror. PLO and HAMAS are terrorist organizations. 2. Israel in 1948 was acting according to UN directives. 3. It got attacked by 5 states immediately and THAT's an international law violation.
More than 3600 Palestinian children were killed in the first 25 days of the Israel-Hamas war, according to Gaza's Hamas-run Health Ministry. There is a Humanitarian Crisis!!!
Interesting that no one ever seems to draw any conclusions from the incredible discrepancy in the body counts. I mean it’s astonishing. You can’t look at it and not know which side is the aggressor.
It's not like the weaker one is the moral one. Think about Germany and Japan in 1945; they were weaker than Allies, but they were not the victims but the aggressors.
@@998isabel yeah but Isabel in this case the Palestinians are not only weaker but also having their land chipped away at bit by bit. This did not start on Oct 7. Those atrocities happened because there was no hope for the Palestinians. No political solution and the world looking the other way
An excellent interview - it poses all the questions I’ve been asking myself… But as I started contemplating a possibility I’d ceasefire, there was a siren in Tel Aviv and everybody had to run and find a safe place from the rockets. So, how can we even start considering ceasefire when the other side still has the capability to attack. Sadly, I don’t see any solution
What's truly shocking is the taking of peoples land and then massacaring them while the Western governments cheer on and supply weapons. Or what does your lot say? Mowing the lawn ? Thinning them out? Now that rhetoric is truly shocking.
Think about the fact that you just used the phrase “the one” to refer to an entire population of over 2 million people as one single individual, that they’re all the same singularity- that is the definition of racism.
@@izebellebluereadsoutloud3715 We commonly refer to countries or groups in the singular, however. I don't see any problem in Israelis referring to the Hamas militant group as "the one that is trying to kill us." That would not be racist. Though it would be more grammatical to say "the ones that are trying to kill us."
If you bothered listening, he didn't say "don't defend"; he didn't say "don't attack back"- he said a more tactical research of who did the attack would have been prudent. Selectively find out, man by man, who committed the crimes.
This Vox journalist is not expert in the topic. Some of his opinions are plausible, but others are specious. I raise only one: "I do not believe the intent is to ethnically cleanse Gaza, because there's no place for them to go." When people/journalists don't understand psychology, they assume false ideas. After 8 weeks of literal brutality, instability, and nea-escapes, Gazans have had terror seared into them about _their_ ancestral land. Israel's goal is also psychological -- to break the will of Palestinian civilians -- for many of their strongest tenets. Israel is using psychological warfare. It's actions override/replace the emotional bond in Palestinians to their ancestral land, with far stronger emotions of terror to awaken in-built primal survival-response (of fight, flight, etc.), Many additional psychological factors are at play in this one-sided conflict - I won't raise others. Israel's policy of intentional brutality includes the goal of hurting Palestinians physically, but more critically psychologically. Every conflict has between the parties unconscious goals to destabilize the other. This "war" is no different. Except one side has mostly poor undernourished civilian families & children, while the other has 10,000 military analysts writing 100s of war strategies on exactly "how to psychologically weaken" the "enemy" (civilians & combatants). We've even learned Israel's bombing is INTENDED to destabilize civilians living in civilian buildings, by bombing their homes only to "apply psychological pressure" on them. In this 1-sided conflict, who is Israel's "enemy"? Right-wing fanatic Israelis (who make up most of IDF and the Likud/Netanyahu govt) tell us they consider ALL Palestinians to be their enemies -- "intruders, "terrorists", "thieves of Israeli land", and of course, "animals" & "vermin". This is obviously false & dehumanizing, and easily disproved. But most media still justify Israe's dehumanizing rhetoricl -- when the media also "lower the value of Palestinian lives" by equating them with a rebel fraction funded (with "suitcases of cash") by Netanyahu & Likud.
how do you defend yourself after a crime has happened?. a crime you were warned from many sources was going to happen? by the way, Israel does not have a right to defend itself because it's an Occupying Power and Hamas and Gaza are the victims of the Occupation..this is according to international law, which Israel always ignores because the US Empire has it's back and will block any punishment directed at Israel..
You have no idea what international law is. btw, there were NO israelis in Gaza since 2005. Occupation, you say? Stupid people always keep saying "occupation, occupation" (the most stupid add "apartheid") like Israelis has invaded the land from the moon and werent just following UN decisions back in 1948. Also jews ALWAYS lived there. Suprised? Arabs are occupiers, you ********. Since 7th century.
Are you saying that "only" Hamas crossed the line? Because all the bombings of the normal civilians and hospitals in Gaza looks like a line crossed to me.
Some portion of the population in Israel does not fully understand the scale of the destruction in Gaza because they do not have objective news on TV there, so it’s definitely possible that many in Gaza similarly don’t understand the scale of the horror on October 7 either…
It's worse than that. I think that many if not most Arabs or even Muslims in general don't believe that the horror of October 7 even happened. They have been fed "news" that the whole thing was faked, and that it was only an attack on Israeli military targets. They think that the reports, photos and video of the attack are faked.
I think you are right- infrastructure was taken out in Gaza: internet unreliable, electricity cut off- how were they supposed to get an accurate picture of Oct 7th? One day they weren't at war, the next people are running and haven't stopped since- they haven't had time to stop and digest when so many are just "dead". People digging mass graves don't have time to research the truth of why there are mass graves.
Israel could have removed Hamas at any point in time by simply giving Palestinians basic human and civil rights. Hamas wouldn’t even exist if Israel had ever done that. Even Donald Trump, who bent over backwards to give Bibi Jerusalem, realized at the end of his term that Netanyahu “doesn’t want peace; he’s made that very clear”.
They are the suppler of the money and arms for most of it. It could not be done without the involvement of the US. The money and weapons needs to stop.
If this is supposed to be an ethnic cleansing or Genocide, this is the worst one in history! 🙄 The population of Gazans goes UP every year in the past 20+ years! Isn't it supposed to go down?? Even Western Nations don't see such increases for such a stretch! I thought Jews were supposed to be smart! 🙄
I am so sick of these unqualified critics, with no military background, criticizing Israel's efforts in Gaza. They always tells us what they should not be doing in pursuing this war but never give any detailed, and I mean detailed, description of how to conduct a war in a densely populated urban environment where the terrorist army has not only embedded itself in the civilian population but has constructed a vast underground network below civilian infrastructure. To get to that underground network it requires bombing that which is above. He compares the destruction to WW II Germany but the Germans did not locate ALL of their main military infrastructure only in their urban areas and especially such a massive network below the their cities. Hamas does not come out on an open battlefield to face the IDF, they cower in the homes and apartment building of their civil an population, including hospitals, schools, and religious buildings constantly firing missiles into Israel. The only way to destroy this massive underground infrastructure without sustaining unimaginable IDF casualties is by softening up the enemy with bombing. If the world cared so much for the Palestinian civilians they would get off their rumps and offer them temporary immigration while the war effort is pursued. They could go further and send in sufficient peace keeping forces in the designated refugee areas to minimize Hamas's ability to entrap and contain their civilian hostages. Further Hamas' actions did not stop on Oct. 7, they are shooting missiles into Israel on a continuing and daily basis and would look for any opportunity to cross the border for more mayhem. Again if you have an alternative stop talking in generalities and provide specific details on how to conduct this war or shut up.
Biggest onesided bullshite I've heard to date. Netanyahu brought Hamas into Palestine for this exact reason, and to avoid a two state solution. Netanyahu's sick plan was to remove all innocent Palestinians from their land for a greater Israel, in order to do that he had to create an enemy, Hamas, so that western allies like the US would side with Israel in Netanyahu's final solution. Netanyahu also entrapped the majority of innocent Palestinians with Hamas into GAZA, oppression and apartheid being the name of that sick situation, even set up a vote with Hamas as leadership knowing innocent Palestinians would be between a rock and a hard place, because Hamas is beholding to No one, only to their cause, if they didn't vote for Hamas they would have slit their throats, a win win for Netanyahu's future plans which are happening now! Vietnam was a war with tunnels everywhere, and why, because it was a small group that were being invaded by one of the most powerful countries in the world, families lived in those tunnels along with the fighters, it's called we don't have a large enough army to come in costume, we have to work with what we got. Israel by the way built many of those tunnels some time ago, Fact Check it. Palestinians are barely in the 20th century (thanks to the oppression on Israel's part), these are simple people who managed to live in peace with Jews as friends and neighbors until 1948, when Israel decided to begin stealing their land and killing them if they fought back. So stop with your one sided thinking as to who is the enemy here, and learn to open your heart and search for truth.
@@marvink7969 "I am so sick of these unqualified critics, with no military background, criticizing Israel's efforts in Gaza." Have you listened to the QUALIFIED critics with PLENTY of military background? I assume you are tired of them too, because they tell you stuff that you don't want to hear. "They always tells us what they should not be doing in pursuing this war but never give any detailed, and I mean detailed, description of how to conduct a war in a densely populated urban environment" As if israel publishes ITS detailed combat tactics? Don't be stupid. 🙄🙄 As if such discussions/suggestions occur at the public discourse level. You really are not thinking these cheap arguments through...are you? "To get to that underground network it requires bombing that which is above. " You do not know that. But I bet I can guess who advocates for that singular perspective.
In war, it's unfortunate and tragic but civilians get caught in the crossfire. Not sure in WW2 the US came under fire for its destruction of Berlin...or Hiroshima.
@@dominique217 Is that your relativism? If the nazis did it, it is okay for us to do similar? Do you see why the world is turning against you? You are becoming that which you allegedly hate.
"get caught in the crossfire. " There is no crossfire. Crossfire is when two armed combatants are actively shooting at each other. Crossfire is when there a target who was not aimed at is hit. You can not say that in this case. A crossfire bullet is aimed at a target but for various reasons creates collateral damage/death. The israeli murder force "bullets" are AIMED at civilians...with the excuse (real or apocryphal) that there is a NON-shooting "Hamas leader" behind that civilian. This is a massacre of civilians. It is intentional. Plenty of israeli leaders have admitted it proudly, though the p.r. wing of the government says they are talking out of turn. Not one has been fired for advocating genocide.
There was indeed much unease about allied tactics in the latter days of the way eg the fire bombing of Dresden is hotly debated. The situation now is different in one sense at least - the Nuremberg trials and the ensuing legal framework around crimes of genocide and crimes against humanity. It is significant that as Danny Friedman KC pointed out a month ago when he was warning of the possibility of Israel breaching the law, "international law puts humanity as sovereign over state - more important than individual states, issues or calculations even when (those states) are in great pain."
Rabin was assassinated. Perhaps you should have mentioned who by???? Quite an omission if we’re trying to understand the barriers to peace don’t you think?
There is points of discussion, discuss what you want. There is strategic objectives. Israel is carrying on with its objectives and has been since 1800's. The ideology of Israel has not been understood by most people
🐝🐝 financially supported Hamas. , America’s yearly AID gift is a lot more than $3.8 billion in aid plus $3.3 billion in military aid. Gaza doesn’t have fighter jets, tanks, ships, and a host of other military weapons yet they are holding on with rocks and weaker weapons.
marjorietench3925, What Hamas did was abhorrent and wrong, but that is not 2 million innocent Palestinians who have been deliberately locked up with these psychopaths by Netanyahu in an outdoor prison. Netanyahu brought Hamas into Palestine, Fact Check it! So important to look at all sides of this nightmare. Netanyahu's plan all along was to take the land of the Palestinians which is almost completed, he wants none to return so they must be destroyed, Netanyahu is a monster for this goal, he let this happen on purpose, listen to not just the Zionist party, listen to. Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein the latter who has lived there and knows the truth on both sides. Open your heart to the truth so we can move towards true peace and a two state solution.
DAISYROSE22, Hamas was deliberately placed into Palestine by Netanyahu (you know the PM who said himself how they only want to kill Jews), and why, because Netanyahu never wanted to deal with a two state solution and peace, he wants all the Palestinians land and no possibility of return, which means total destruction of GAZA which is where he locked up inside 2 Million innocent Palestinians with a terrorist group who is beholding to no one, only their cause, so how do you think you would have voted, if you knew they would slit yours and you're children's throats? These innocent people are between two sets of terrorist, so don't tell me it's their bloody fault!
For those of us who know about history, Israel did already cross the line in 1967 when the illegal occupation of Palestine begun. Every day since then it is Israel, and Israel alone, that is responsible for both Israeli and Palestine deaths. This is what international law and all the conventions says about illegal occupation and the duty/right of any occupied people to resist occupation by a foreign power with almost any means necessary.
Katie still bouncing around in the echo chamber. Show some intellectual honesty and inverview someone like Rashid Khalidi. At least hear what he has to say
billryanrances, Haven't been paying attention have we? Each has already taken in hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees (Fact Check it), the Zionist Jews have been stealing the land and killing innocent Palestinians for decades, as in 75 years. So I'd say that's a no!
Some people have that habit. Nate Silver is the worst at that. Then there are the people who say "like" in every sentence, or "actually," or or insert "sort of," or "um" or "eh."
Youth brings its own special blindness doesn't it, not to mention insurmountable arrogance. The attack on Oct 7 actually discouraged neighboring countries from attacking Israel. Not only did neighboring leaders find the assault contemptible, but in case you hadn't noticed, Hamas failed to disrupt the Israeli military in any practical way at all. Nor were neighboring countries prepared in any way. Frankly, they do business with Israel, but I wouldn't expect you to know that The entire assault was wasted on a music festival, civilian suburbs and some local police stations. What nation would join the cause of fools and rapists? In fact, the Oct 7 attack was for your delectation and the delectation of university professors and student unions. Exactly what Hamas thought they would get from these people except for a lot of hot air is unclear.
@@brianrichardcohn2159 Sure, many people gathered, but did Hamas disrupt the Israeli air force, artillery, navy or ground installations doing that? Not at all. That is hardly the way to inspire neighboring nations with military competence is it? Let me fill you in a little bit here, since Zack is evidently a naive child. In the past decade Israel has become affluent to the point of requiring migrant workers from adjoining nations as well as workers from as far afield as Thailand. Some of these migrant workers were of course killed on Oct 7. Israel and one branch of Hamas had been negotiating everything from medical care agreements to salary agreements for employees sourced from Gaza and the numbers had been increasing. For the Hamas military wing, this was an unfolding disaster in terms of their relevance. Look around and you can find accounts of this. So the Hamas military wing launched an attack the featured rape and murder, to the delight of western professors while even Iran, a sponsor of Hamas, was caught flat footed. Iran is now trying to ship artillery rounds and missiles to Hezbollah on the Syrian border with Israel and the convoys are getting wiped out. The situation is not really complex, Zack is just stupid.
Imagine you're having breakfast with your daughter and wife and you get bombarded out of nowhere by another country and they die for no reason at all because there was no one in the building that was part of Hamas, how would you feel?
Katie, you are a parent. As of today 20,000 Palestenians have been killed, 14,000 of these are CHILDREN. How many children are allowed to be killed by Israel before it is "too much"? EIGHTY percent of the dwellinfs in Gaza have been destroyed. How many decades of GENOCIDE are "too much"?
She didn't get that, did she? He was trying to talk some common sense and she was too short in not hearing him out. October 7 may have been the start of brutality, but one day there has to be rebuilding of hospitals, schools and infrastructure. There has to be a solution for people to rule themselves- genocide and oppression only leads to more violence, is what he was saying.
You say there is an alternative for Israel, but you do not say what it is. Israel warned Palestinians repeatedly to move south so as to allow the tunnels to be destroyed and Hamas to be killed.
@bricendayiseng40. Palestinians did move south and IDF bombed them there. Israel has killed 8,000 children. It has bombed all but one hospital to tend to the injured among 1.6million Gazans. Are you happy with that?
Israel is not occupying Gaza. Israel gave land to Palestinians. Israel has a right to defend its borders always. Palestinians want to get rid of Hamas as do Israelis.
Israel is an occupying force and Hamas had a right to attack its military. So remove from your numbers the IDF people who were killed and maybe everyone who is under 40 who are reservists. Yes, violations to international law occurred but Israel has been in violation of international law every day for decades. If the Israeli government had a duty to protect its citizens, it also has a duty to protect those living under occupation and they didn't.(Read about the pogroms by Jewish settlers.) Full stop.
Please don't turn up the ending of your sentences as if we don't get it and as if declarative sentences can be phrased at the end like an interrogative.
Zach is a professional and I appreciate him sharing his perspective with us. However, I believe he is thinking in terms of how we all used to view Israel’s interactions with Palestinians in Gaza. This time is very different as Israel’s objective is the elimination of Hamas in Gaza. This has never happened before. This situation requires that people view the conflict differently as its objectives are quite different. The mission objectives currently in play should give Palestinians in Gaza hope, the possibility of a future that wasn’t possible when they were controlled by a terrorist organization. There is good in everything in this world, even in the worst situations, and good will prevail and rise from this conflict as well as other conflicts in the world.
This guy seems to know the exact number of his many "innocent civilians" are allowed to be killed. Incredible insight from a game chair general with a MacBook Pro. C'mon Katie.
Palestinian people have to pick better leaders. A terrorist organization leading the country is not viable. On the other side Netanyahu has to go, another terrible leader.
It *is* defensible if you cannot offer an alternative. The title of this episode refutes its own logic. I'll keep watching to notice if you suggest an alternative. Otherwise, you can't say it's indefensible. The alternative can't be to just ceasefire and let the terrorists control everything. Especially while they still have 137 hostages. (You have a moral obligation now to do another episode and make it more pro-israel.)
The alternative is to offer a politics solution. Terrorism rises when people lose hope for a just political solution. And sorry but that’s largely on the US who have been happy to look away while Israel continue to expand their territory
@@lacolocha75 Saying "politics solution" does not help. Before anyone can cast the first stone, they should offer a specific alternative course of action Israel can take. That's my insight as an Irish Catholic weighing in on the situation. There's a whole lot the International Community could do besides just point fingers. But one thing we cannot do is ask Israel to allow a lot of people to be close to its border if their religion teaches them to kill jews.
@@newidealism3894 ok. They should stop expanding their illegal settlements, stop detaining Palestinian children and put effort into peace talks. As a start. Lots and lots of concrete actions that could have been taken and haven’t for the last two decades
What’s indefensible is the double standards against Israel, and lazy dishonest reporting, moral relativism, and revisionist history. What’s glaring here is that like all who criticize Israel none of you have any actual solutions. It’s easy to pontificate from the sidelines while navel gazing at your own moral superiority. There are so many problems with this interview. It’s difficult to know where even to begin. So disappointing from Katie.
"What’s indefensible is the double standards against Israel, and lazy dishonest reporting, moral relativism, and revisionist history." Which are all things that israel, particularly the right wing israelis, are exceptionally proficient at. "What’s glaring here is that like all who criticize Israel none of you have any actual solutions. " The ONLY way you could say that (and still be honest) is to absolutely ignore all the solutions you do not like. Saying something like, 'well, all those other solutions...THOSE are unacceptable solutions'. " It’s easy to pontificate from the sidelines while navel gazing at your own moral superiority." Easy or hard. Makes no difference to level of correctness. Agreed? "There are so many problems with this interview. It’s difficult to know where even to begin. So disappointing from Katie." ...but what else would anyone expect a zionist to say? Give it a fair review? Ha! 😄😄
We have heard it all before. If Israel wanted peace, Israel wouldn't elect the utterly corrupt, psychopathic leaders like Benjamin Netanyahu, who is just a Jewish version of Putin. It's the same behavior worldwide - morally insane people always vote for morally insane "strong hand" leaders.
Ok, Israel has estimated the number of trained armed militants in Gaza from the ranks of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others at about 60,000. How is that proportionally to the population of Gaza? They are based under the civilian infrastructure including schools, hospitals, Mosques, etc. The militants wear civilian clothing and are difficult to identify. First - what recent military conflict can you compare this too? Secondly, to get really surgical would mean to increase exponentially the risk to the Israeli military personnel and that would be exactly what Hamas wants. Hamas, de facto the government of Gaza takes all the steps to put their own people in harms way - intentionally. Let's not forget that there is a looming threat from the North and West. So to my lefty friends here and in Israel I say - you should shove your feelings where the sun don't shine. Israel is doing a very difficult job right now. Nobody enjoys it. Israeli soldiers would much rather be with their families now. Hopefully after the war there could be a fresh start for both Israelis and Palestinians.
A possible comparison is Northern Ireland in terms of a (mostly) non-uniformed force embedded in a (mostly?) sympathetic population and faced by a vastly militarily superior perceived occupier. Perhaps some lessons can be learnt from the progress made there? Secondly there is indeed going to be a high price paid in Israel itself in terms of PTSD and other mental illness amongst troops. This is likely to be long lasting with untold effects on the politics of the region. The mental health toll in Gaza is beyond my comprehension but there is no good reason to think everyone will just suddenly forgive and forget especially of the Palestinians are denied a voice and hope. Netanyahu's government track record here is deeply worrying (cf what is happening on the West bank). The basic problem to use your wording, is that Israel does not know what "difficult job" it is doing. As Mr Beauchamp points out, no clear end goal is a very dangerous situation.
Giving Palenstine a path forward with their own state has been attempted multiple times throughout the years, including Israel giving up territory to achieve it, yet, Palestine refused it each time. I don't know what more Israel can do. Unless the Palestinian people reject Hamas and force them out of Palestine, this situation will continue.
Israel gave up territory?! You do realize that israel does not have borders, right? They are slowly occupying the whole of Palestine, something never agreed in 1948.
The Palestinians have had the opportunity to become a recognized state in the past and live in harmony with other states, Israel included, but chose not to. They're to blame for their present condition and their wish to die for their religion should be honored and granted. I only wish the adults of their society would not drag their children with them to the grave but they are. A sad state of affairs, actually.
The question should be about the moral obligation for the rest of us. It would be nice if some Arab nations would accept Palestinian refugees, for example.
@@zaraig5373 I just want them to be safe, brother. I was talking about refugees, people who wish Egypt or Jordan or qatar would accept them. I wasn't talking about people who prefer to stay in the region. Why would Arab Nations refuse to accept refugees who want to relocate for their own safety? I can't figure it out, can you help me understand the reason? Some people say Gaza is an open-air prison. If somebody imprisoned you in your own home, I wouldn't want you to have to stay there. But it's your home so you should be able to if you want. But if you wanted to come to my place as a refugee, I would let you. It's sad so many Arab Nations keep Gazans trapped in an open-air prison.
This man's information is so out of date as to be laughable. Do Better. I suggest you take a listen to Eylon Levy -- he can dispute this peaceniks uninformed observations. For now, he s just an apologist for Hamas, and holding Israel to a double standard and a higher standard than any other country on the planet. There is a word for that.
Zack is what passes for a senior correspondent at Vox? He knows even less about the region than any business person who's business career has taken them to the nations around the Mediterranean, from Italy to Egypt to Israel, Tunisia, it matters not exactly which countries. The educational system in the US must be very near to collapse. Zack should shave off his beard and wear a little school boy uniform as they do in some British schools.
Madam Philistines son of soles And owner of Land's (Philistines) Imeddiatley I phlistines defeated to occupieds forces (Israel ) Philistines not migratee to any country Greater Israel Greater Bharat(Akhand Bharet) Greater united Kingdom Finished Thanks
I think Benjamin Netanyahu thinks all 2 million Palestinians are HAMAS, 😢
He isn't the only one!
If it is a topic you find interesting I suggest Corey Gil Shuster's channel with street interviews of Palestinians and Israelis.
Babies and children grow up. That is the thinking of Israelis .
Just 70%
@@joyduncan9434 They start indoctrinating VERY early, thanks to UNWRA! They have 27,000 employees, mostly Palestinian. Which is great! But their report just came out, which is online (UN Watch has it), says that almost all the teachers are Hamas. And Hamas replaced all the textbooks and curriculum.
Google also MEMRI Kindergarten graduation class play and watch those adorable 5 yr olds with their parents standing by beaming and taping them as they reenact Oct. 7th, or some other monstrosity. But they sure are cute! Wonder how cute they will be in 10 years?
@@jazzman1904propaganda, IDF are the ones who dropped the bombs, killed children and babies, not HAMAS, most criminals including Trump always blame someone else, lost souls
Yes. Thank you. This is not self defense, and there is no justification for killing children.
Just try and look up the history of the so called Palestinians ,in Kewait ,Jordan,the Lebanon and Egypt and wonder why they will not help or tolerate them. I also believe they were also a problem in Syria
There is no justification for targeting children.
@@Wawi633 Hamas targets children (among other civilians), including the children of "their" own population.
Israel doesn't. Tell me how would you destroy a terrorist organization in a highly populated urban area when they gladly use their own people as human shields (and people gladly agree, because they believe they're going to become martyrs and live in paradise). Please enlighten me.
Israel takes absolutely unprecedented steps to keep gazans safe.
BTW, where is your anger about millions (!!!) of dead arabs and muslims in the Middle East in the last decade? No? Silence? That's what i thought, hypocrites at their best.
@@alanharmon9970 The j
ews were sent to Palestine because all the countries in Europe wanted to get rid of them.
You mean Canon Fodder for their Islamist takeover.
Occupation has no self-defense rights
They can move to your house, then
Occupation of what??
Israel certainly does not want to go BACK INTO Gaza!
@@David-vi9jq They should move back to their own homes that were stolen.
What occupation? Where?
@@Rai2M The place they expelled over 700k ppl from in 1948, and before since 1920 as well as in continuation in smaller amounts since then.
How has Israel proved that they hit Hamas commanders? Have they produced and identified them?
Israel offered Egypt money to accept refugees and they refused as it would certainly destabilize their country. There are growing numbers, some say 100,000 Gazans gathering near the Rafa crossing in desperate circumstances. They might force their way out, and maybe that’s what Israel is hoping for
The is no genocidal mind against Jews. That was in the past. The real genocide is happening now in Gaza. ThreePalestinian students were shot in Burlington, Vermont. One is paralyzed from the waist down. Where is the outrage in congress against Islamophobia? One has to be concerned about both, to be fair.
So similar war-wise to going into Iraq. Afghanistan could be understood, Iraq not. So all the sympathy the U.S. received from the world was lost by doing what we did.
Netanyahu has helped usher in a new level of terror on both sides.
the u.s killed 70000 innocent civilians in iraq but israel is bad? your ignorance and stupidity is showing...
This whole thing is showcasing where we are in human evolution and it is heartbreaking
@thestuffoflife88 things would be much better if we didn't have to deal murderous islamic terrorists. Also you don't know much about history to make such a statement. Look up a guy name Mao zedong
with the US
Bibi has always wanted war..and he wants the US to do it for him via either money or weapons.
I don’t understand why Ha-mas is called a terrori$t organization and Israel’s action from 1948-to 10/7/23 is not considered terroi$m. Can oppressed people be terroi$t?
1. They can. Terrorism is achieving political goals thru violence against civilians (and only civilians) and terror. PLO and HAMAS are terrorist organizations.
2. Israel in 1948 was acting according to UN directives.
3. It got attacked by 5 states immediately and THAT's an international law violation.
They live in a 25mi x 5mi area with millions of people squeezed in ...where are they going to locate?
In more cases they can't leave...
Expel them to Egypt
More than 3600 Palestinian children were killed in the first 25 days of the Israel-Hamas war, according to Gaza's Hamas-run Health Ministry. There is a Humanitarian Crisis!!!
i'd like to see Zach go to Israel and Gaza to share his suggestions and work for a win-win solution. Katie can come along too.
Interesting that no one ever seems to draw any conclusions from the incredible discrepancy in the body counts. I mean it’s astonishing. You can’t look at it and not know which side is the aggressor.
It's not like the weaker one is the moral one. Think about Germany and Japan in 1945; they were weaker than Allies, but they were not the victims but the aggressors.
@@998isabelIsrael is definitely NOT the moral force. Israel is its opposite.
@@998isabel yeah but Isabel in this case the Palestinians are not only weaker but also having their land chipped away at bit by bit. This did not start on Oct 7. Those atrocities happened because there was no hope for the Palestinians. No political solution and the world looking the other way
Yeah and the fact that Israel builds the Iron Dome to protect their people and hamas dosnt even build any bomb shelters.
An excellent interview - it poses all the questions I’ve been asking myself… But as I started contemplating a possibility I’d ceasefire, there was a siren in Tel Aviv and everybody had to run and find a safe place from the rockets. So, how can we even start considering ceasefire when the other side still has the capability to attack. Sadly, I don’t see any solution
What if they stopped treating people like pigs in Gaza?
💗
Yes Israel must leave the Middle East. Perhaps it could move to Arizona as America is its twin.
This is the kind of crap you encourage by your half-baked reporting, Katie.
Truly shocking.
What's truly shocking is the taking of peoples land and then massacaring them while the Western governments cheer on and supply weapons.
Or what does your lot say? Mowing the lawn ? Thinning them out?
Now that rhetoric is truly shocking.
@@dominique217oh, I am pretty sure the people who think stuff like that are full baked!
Nobody want them in Europe or USA in time of Hitler wonder why
Thats like saying " They're trying to kill you and you better do something, but don't defend or attack the one trying to kill you". What an Einstein
I don't think you really listened. He said Israel absolutely has a right, even an obligation, to attack Hamas.
Think about the fact that you just used the phrase “the one” to refer to an entire population of over 2 million people as one single individual, that they’re all the same singularity- that is the definition of racism.
@@izebellebluereadsoutloud3715 We commonly refer to countries or groups in the singular, however. I don't see any problem in Israelis referring to the Hamas militant group as "the one that is trying to kill us." That would not be racist. Though it would be more grammatical to say "the ones that are trying to kill us."
@@izebellebluereadsoutloud3715 You say 'racism' as if it's something bad...
If you bothered listening, he didn't say "don't defend"; he didn't say "don't attack back"- he said a more tactical research of who did the attack would have been prudent. Selectively find out, man by man, who committed the crimes.
This Vox journalist is not expert in the topic. Some of his opinions are plausible, but others are specious. I raise only one: "I do not believe the intent is to ethnically cleanse Gaza, because there's no place for them to go." When people/journalists don't understand psychology, they assume false ideas. After 8 weeks of literal brutality, instability, and nea-escapes, Gazans have had terror seared into them about _their_ ancestral land. Israel's goal is also psychological -- to break the will of Palestinian civilians -- for many of their strongest tenets. Israel is using psychological warfare. It's actions override/replace the emotional bond in Palestinians to their ancestral land, with far stronger emotions of terror to awaken in-built primal survival-response (of fight, flight, etc.), Many additional psychological factors are at play in this one-sided conflict - I won't raise others. Israel's policy of intentional brutality includes the goal of hurting Palestinians physically, but more critically psychologically. Every conflict has between the parties unconscious goals to destabilize the other.
This "war" is no different. Except one side has mostly poor undernourished civilian families & children, while the other has 10,000 military analysts writing 100s of war strategies on exactly "how to psychologically weaken" the "enemy" (civilians & combatants). We've even learned Israel's bombing is INTENDED to destabilize civilians living in civilian buildings, by bombing their homes only to "apply psychological pressure" on them. In this 1-sided conflict, who is Israel's "enemy"? Right-wing fanatic Israelis (who make up most of IDF and the Likud/Netanyahu govt) tell us they consider ALL Palestinians to be their enemies -- "intruders, "terrorists", "thieves of Israeli land", and of course, "animals" & "vermin". This is obviously false & dehumanizing, and easily disproved. But most media still justify Israe's dehumanizing rhetoricl -- when the media also "lower the value of Palestinian lives" by equating them with a rebel fraction funded (with "suitcases of cash") by Netanyahu & Likud.
My thoughts exactly. I think he still takes a Flinstones chewable vitamin every morning.
how do you defend yourself after a crime has happened?.
a crime you were warned from many sources was going to happen?
by the way, Israel does not have a right to defend itself because it's an Occupying Power and Hamas and Gaza are the victims of the Occupation..this is according to international law, which Israel always ignores because the US Empire has it's back and will block any punishment directed at Israel..
So true. Israel does not have the right to occupy the whole of Palestine.
You have no idea what international law is. btw, there were NO israelis in Gaza since 2005. Occupation, you say?
Stupid people always keep saying "occupation, occupation" (the most stupid add "apartheid") like Israelis has invaded the land from the moon and werent just following UN decisions back in 1948. Also jews ALWAYS lived there. Suprised?
Arabs are occupiers, you ********. Since 7th century.
I thought it was HAMAS that had crossed the Line. Did 9/11 cross America’s Line?
You’ll find out.
Are you saying that "only" Hamas crossed the line? Because all the bombings of the normal civilians and hospitals in Gaza looks like a line crossed to me.
Excellent interview. Sensible assessments. If only politicians would listen. They do not and catastrophes follow
the world should make sure that humanitarian corridors remain safe and open in spite of the ongoing conflict
Some portion of the population in Israel does not fully understand the scale of the destruction in Gaza because they do not have objective news on TV there, so it’s definitely possible that many in Gaza similarly don’t understand the scale of the horror on October 7 either…
It's worse than that. I think that many if not most Arabs or even Muslims in general don't believe that the horror of October 7 even happened. They have been fed "news" that the whole thing was faked, and that it was only an attack on Israeli military targets. They think that the reports, photos and video of the attack are faked.
Absolute crap and bs. Both sides know exactly what happened and happens.
@@Rai2M The Israelis know, but Palestinians only get propaganda and conspiracy theories.
I think you are right- infrastructure was taken out in Gaza: internet unreliable, electricity cut off- how were they supposed to get an accurate picture of Oct 7th? One day they weren't at war, the next people are running and haven't stopped since- they haven't had time to stop and digest when so many are just "dead". People digging mass graves don't have time to research the truth of why there are mass graves.
Too much hate and crimes bby Israel
Do you mean Bibi?
Israel nh reds to remove Hamas. Hamas has said repeatedly they would doOct 7th again and again
Israel could have removed Hamas at any point in time by simply giving Palestinians basic human and civil rights. Hamas wouldn’t even exist if Israel had ever done that. Even Donald Trump, who bent over backwards to give Bibi Jerusalem, realized at the end of his term that Netanyahu “doesn’t want peace; he’s made that very clear”.
Who does the US think they’re to dictate Israel about how to conduct this ethnic cleansing and genocide ??
They are the suppler of the money and arms for most of it. It could not be done without the involvement of the US. The money and weapons needs to stop.
If this is supposed to be an ethnic cleansing or Genocide, this is the worst one in history! 🙄
The population of Gazans goes UP every year in the past 20+ years! Isn't it supposed to go down?? Even Western Nations don't see such increases for such a stretch!
I thought Jews were supposed to be smart! 🙄
I am so sick of these unqualified critics, with no military background, criticizing Israel's efforts in Gaza. They always tells us what they should not be doing in pursuing this war but never give any detailed, and I mean detailed, description of how to conduct a war in a densely populated urban environment where the terrorist army has not only embedded itself in the civilian population but has constructed a vast underground network below civilian infrastructure. To get to that underground network it requires bombing that which is above.
He compares the destruction to WW II Germany but the Germans did not locate ALL of their main military infrastructure only in their urban areas and especially such a massive network below the their cities. Hamas does not come out on an open battlefield to face the IDF, they cower in the homes and apartment building of their civil an population, including hospitals, schools, and religious buildings constantly firing missiles into Israel.
The only way to destroy this massive underground infrastructure without sustaining unimaginable IDF casualties is by softening up the enemy with bombing. If the world cared so much for the Palestinian civilians they would get off their rumps and offer them temporary immigration while the war effort is pursued. They could go further and send in sufficient peace keeping forces in the designated refugee areas to minimize Hamas's ability to entrap and contain their civilian hostages.
Further Hamas' actions did not stop on Oct. 7, they are shooting missiles into Israel on a continuing and daily basis and would look for any opportunity to cross the border for more mayhem. Again if you have an alternative stop talking in generalities and provide specific details on how to conduct this war or shut up.
Who does the US think they’re to dictate Israel about how to conduct this genocide ??
@@bricendayisenga40 you have no idea what real genocide looks like ………
Biggest onesided bullshite I've heard to date. Netanyahu brought Hamas into Palestine for this exact reason, and to avoid a two state solution. Netanyahu's sick plan was to remove all innocent Palestinians from their land for a greater Israel, in order to do that he had to create an enemy, Hamas, so that western allies like the US would side with Israel in Netanyahu's final solution. Netanyahu also entrapped the majority of innocent Palestinians with Hamas into GAZA, oppression and apartheid being the name of that sick situation, even set up a vote with Hamas as leadership knowing innocent Palestinians would be between a rock and a hard place, because Hamas is beholding to No one, only to their cause, if they didn't vote for Hamas they would have slit their throats, a win win for Netanyahu's future plans which are happening now! Vietnam was a war with tunnels everywhere, and why, because it was a small group that were being invaded by one of the most powerful countries in the world, families lived in those tunnels along with the fighters, it's called we don't have a large enough army to come in costume, we have to work with what we got. Israel by the way built many of those tunnels some time ago, Fact Check it. Palestinians are barely in the 20th century (thanks to the oppression on Israel's part), these are simple people who managed to live in peace with Jews as friends and neighbors until 1948, when Israel decided to begin stealing their land and killing them if they fought back. So stop with your one sided thinking as to who is the enemy here, and learn to open your heart and search for truth.
@@marvink7969 "I am so sick of these unqualified critics, with no military background, criticizing Israel's efforts in Gaza."
Have you listened to the QUALIFIED critics with PLENTY of military background? I assume you are tired of them too, because they tell you stuff that you don't want to hear.
"They always tells us what they should not be doing in pursuing this war but never give any detailed, and I mean detailed, description of how to conduct a war in a densely populated urban environment"
As if israel publishes ITS detailed combat tactics? Don't be stupid. 🙄🙄 As if such discussions/suggestions occur at the public discourse level. You really are not thinking these cheap arguments through...are you?
"To get to that underground network it requires bombing that which is above. "
You do not know that. But I bet I can guess who advocates for that singular perspective.
@@homertangler9529 yes I have and you are wrong
Does "Thou Shall Not Kill/Murder" mean anything to Jews anymore?
They celebrate death now, have you seen how a lot of the civilians dance and sing about killing palestinians? And they claim to be the victims...
How about Thou shall not steal?
This is the sort of guy that leads a nation to its own destruction.
In war, it's unfortunate and tragic but civilians get caught in the crossfire. Not sure in WW2 the US came under fire for its destruction of Berlin...or Hiroshima.
We would like to be a bit more civilized today than we were during that time.
@ezbody We would? Was Hamas civilized 7 Oct?
@@dominique217 Is that your relativism? If the nazis did it, it is okay for us to do similar? Do you see why the world is turning against you? You are becoming that which you allegedly hate.
"get caught in the crossfire. "
There is no crossfire. Crossfire is when two armed combatants are actively shooting at each other. Crossfire is when there a target who was not aimed at is hit. You can not say that in this case. A crossfire bullet is aimed at a target but for various reasons creates collateral damage/death. The israeli murder force "bullets" are AIMED at civilians...with the excuse (real or apocryphal) that there is a NON-shooting "Hamas leader" behind that civilian.
This is a massacre of civilians.
It is intentional.
Plenty of israeli leaders have admitted it proudly, though the p.r. wing of the government says they are talking out of turn. Not one has been fired for advocating genocide.
There was indeed much unease about allied tactics in the latter days of the way eg the fire bombing of Dresden is hotly debated. The situation now is different in one sense at least - the Nuremberg trials and the ensuing legal framework around crimes of genocide and crimes against humanity. It is significant that as Danny Friedman KC pointed out a month ago when he was warning of the possibility of Israel breaching the law, "international law puts humanity as sovereign over state - more important than individual states, issues or calculations even when (those states) are in great pain."
Rabin was assassinated. Perhaps you should have mentioned who by???? Quite an omission if we’re trying to understand the barriers to peace don’t you think?
What a great mind Zack is.....
Another great interview.
What would you say to Hamas was defending its territory !??
Please don't forget,that the territory around Ghaza is palaestinensian territory, occupied through military force,by the Israelies,
No such nation-state called "Palestine".
It is a myth, a nonsense, a fabrication and a lie. A bad joke.
There is points of discussion, discuss what you want. There is strategic objectives. Israel is carrying on with its objectives and has been since 1800's. The ideology of Israel has not been understood by most people
Better late than never.
🐝🐝 financially supported Hamas.
, America’s yearly AID gift is a lot more than $3.8 billion in aid plus $3.3 billion in military aid.
Gaza doesn’t have fighter jets, tanks, ships, and a host of other military weapons yet they are holding on with rocks and weaker weapons.
Interesting discussion...very complicated issues on all sides
So what should Israel do? Practical suggestions?
Peace.
No what Palestine did is indefensible.
Is there not room in your opinions to include "both/and?"
Who does the US think they’re to dictate Israel about how to conduct the genocide ??
marjorietench3925,
What Hamas did was abhorrent and wrong, but that is not 2 million innocent Palestinians who have been deliberately locked up with these psychopaths by Netanyahu in an outdoor prison. Netanyahu brought Hamas into Palestine, Fact Check it! So important to look at all sides of this nightmare. Netanyahu's plan all along was to take the land of the Palestinians which is almost completed, he wants none to return so they must be destroyed, Netanyahu is a monster for this goal, he let this happen on purpose, listen to not just the Zionist party, listen to. Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein the latter who has lived there and knows the truth on both sides. Open your heart to the truth so we can move towards true peace and a two state solution.
@@bricendayisenga40 you have no idea what genocide is
@@marvink7969 I know that YOU cannot/WILL NOT define genocide without shifting the goal posts
It won't end well. As with a lot of things--there are no winners.
So true.
Excellent interview
I stand with Israel
Jesus and I stand with the innocents on both sides!
@@bkm2797 There are no innocents on both sides. The people of Palestine selected Hamas as their government. They have colluded in their own misery.
DAISYROSE22,
Hamas was deliberately placed into Palestine by Netanyahu (you know the PM who said himself how they only want to kill Jews), and why, because Netanyahu never wanted to deal with a two state solution and peace, he wants all the Palestinians land and no possibility of return, which means total destruction of GAZA which is where he locked up inside 2 Million innocent Palestinians with a terrorist group who is beholding to no one, only their cause, so how do you think you would have voted, if you knew they would slit yours and you're children's throats? These innocent people are between two sets of terrorist, so don't tell me it's their bloody fault!
For those of us who know about history, Israel did already cross the line in 1967 when the illegal occupation of Palestine begun. Every day since then it is Israel, and Israel alone, that is responsible for both Israeli and Palestine deaths. This is what international law and all the conventions says about illegal occupation and the duty/right of any occupied people to resist occupation by a foreign power with almost any means necessary.
What occupation? Ah, you mean when Israel freed Palestine from Egypt and Jordan occupation? Got it! )))
Get yourself a good book or two.
Katie still bouncing around in the echo chamber. Show some intellectual honesty and inverview someone like Rashid Khalidi. At least hear what he has to say
Khalidi is an intellectual conman and academic swindler. A devious PLO follower.
Please don't worry for Israel. If Israel hade to count on you to defend itself it would be long gone.
let Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon open their borders to refugees and innocent civilians.
billryanrances,
Haven't been paying attention have we? Each has already taken in hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees (Fact Check it), the Zionist Jews have been stealing the land and killing innocent Palestinians for decades, as in 75 years. So I'd say that's a no!
The info you guest brought was useful. But hearing him say “right?” after nearly every statement he made was a bit distracting for me.
Some people have that habit. Nate Silver is the worst at that. Then there are the people who say "like" in every sentence, or "actually," or or insert "sort of," or "um" or "eh."
divine central authority for nation
Yes,indefensible
I appreciate Zach speaking to the generational divide because there certainly is one.
And a thing that may have a bearing on how he sees things is his relative young age.
Youth brings its own special blindness doesn't it, not to mention insurmountable arrogance. The attack on Oct 7 actually discouraged neighboring countries from attacking Israel. Not only did neighboring leaders find the assault contemptible, but in case you hadn't noticed, Hamas failed to disrupt the Israeli military in any practical way at all. Nor were neighboring countries prepared in any way. Frankly, they do business with Israel, but I wouldn't expect you to know that The entire assault was wasted on a music festival, civilian suburbs and some local police stations. What nation would join the cause of fools and rapists? In fact, the Oct 7 attack was for your delectation and the delectation of university professors and student unions. Exactly what Hamas thought they would get from these people except for a lot of hot air is unclear.
@@TheGruntski Yes I have thought about that: Why attack a music festival? Because many people was gathered or??
@@brianrichardcohn2159 Sure, many people gathered, but did Hamas disrupt the Israeli air force, artillery, navy or ground installations doing that? Not at all. That is hardly the way to inspire neighboring nations with military competence is it? Let me fill you in a little bit here, since Zack is evidently a naive child. In the past decade Israel has become affluent to the point of requiring migrant workers from adjoining nations as well as workers from as far afield as Thailand. Some of these migrant workers were of course killed on Oct 7. Israel and one branch of Hamas had been negotiating everything from medical care agreements to salary agreements for employees sourced from Gaza and the numbers had been increasing. For the Hamas military wing, this was an unfolding disaster in terms of their relevance. Look around and you can find accounts of this. So the Hamas military wing launched an attack the featured rape and murder, to the delight of western professors while even Iran, a sponsor of Hamas, was caught flat footed. Iran is now trying to ship artillery rounds and missiles to Hezbollah on the Syrian border with Israel and the convoys are getting wiped out.
The situation is not really complex, Zack is just stupid.
No, they haven't gone too far.
Imagine you're having breakfast with your daughter and wife and you get bombarded out of nowhere by another country and they die for no reason at all because there was no one in the building that was part of Hamas, how would you feel?
Israel has the right! I hope they don't stop! What would the United States do if Hamas was close to its border?
Look at the south border...
You’re nuts lol
Katie, you are a parent. As of today 20,000 Palestenians have been killed, 14,000 of these are CHILDREN. How many children are allowed to be killed by Israel before it is "too much"? EIGHTY percent of the dwellinfs in Gaza have been destroyed. How many decades of GENOCIDE are "too much"?
She didn't get that, did she? He was trying to talk some common sense and she was too short in not hearing him out. October 7 may have been the start of brutality, but one day there has to be rebuilding of hospitals, schools and infrastructure. There has to be a solution for people to rule themselves- genocide and oppression only leads to more violence, is what he was saying.
Thank you Katie and Zach
You say there is an alternative for Israel, but you do not say what it is. Israel warned Palestinians repeatedly to move south so as to allow the tunnels to be destroyed and Hamas to be killed.
@bricendayiseng40. Palestinians did move south and IDF bombed them there. Israel has killed 8,000 children. It has bombed all but one hospital to tend to the injured among 1.6million Gazans. Are you happy with that?
@@phillipaclemons7261 I'm happy with the fact that evertything you said is absolute crap.
Israel is not occupying Gaza. Israel gave land to Palestinians. Israel has a right to defend its borders always. Palestinians want to get rid of Hamas as do Israelis.
Haha, Israel "gave" Palestine land to Palestinians! And, can you draw Israel's borders?
I can only assume you know nothing about how Israel has been occupying Gaza. Look into what rights Palestinians had before Oct 7.
Excellent insite
Israel is an occupying force and Hamas had a right to attack its military.
So remove from your numbers the IDF people who were killed and maybe everyone who is under 40 who are reservists.
Yes, violations to international law occurred but Israel has been in violation of international law every day for decades.
If the Israeli government had a duty to protect its citizens, it also has a duty to protect those living under occupation and they didn't.(Read about the pogroms by Jewish settlers.) Full stop.
Don't pretend hamas and palestine are separate entities.
Please don't turn up the ending of your sentences as if we don't get it and as if declarative sentences can be phrased at the end like an interrogative.
Zach is a professional and I appreciate him sharing his perspective with us. However, I believe he is thinking in terms of how we all used to view Israel’s interactions with Palestinians in Gaza. This time is very different as Israel’s objective is the elimination of Hamas in Gaza. This has never happened before. This situation requires that people view the conflict differently as its objectives are quite different. The mission objectives currently in play should give Palestinians in Gaza hope, the possibility of a future that wasn’t possible when they were controlled by a terrorist organization. There is good in everything in this world, even in the worst situations, and good will prevail and rise from this conflict as well as other conflicts in the world.
Gaza and the Palestinians will always be ruled by a terrorist organisation, which is the IDF. By definition, it is a terrorist organisation.
This guy seems to know the exact number of his many "innocent civilians" are allowed to be killed. Incredible insight from a game chair general with a MacBook Pro. C'mon Katie.
Palestinian people have to pick better leaders. A terrorist organization leading the country is not viable. On the other side Netanyahu has to go, another terrible leader.
Please name for us what choices did they have...which leaders ran for peace? On either side?
It *is* defensible if you cannot offer an alternative. The title of this episode refutes its own logic. I'll keep watching to notice if you suggest an alternative. Otherwise, you can't say it's indefensible. The alternative can't be to just ceasefire and let the terrorists control everything. Especially while they still have 137 hostages. (You have a moral obligation now to do another episode and make it more pro-israel.)
No!!! Nothing pardons Israeli government for the slaughter of innocents!!!
The alternative is to offer a politics solution. Terrorism rises when people lose hope for a just political solution. And sorry but that’s largely on the US who have been happy to look away while Israel continue to expand their territory
@@lacolocha75 Saying "politics solution" does not help. Before anyone can cast the first stone, they should offer a specific alternative course of action Israel can take. That's my insight as an Irish Catholic weighing in on the situation. There's a whole lot the International Community could do besides just point fingers. But one thing we cannot do is ask Israel to allow a lot of people to be close to its border if their religion teaches them to kill jews.
@@newidealism3894 ok. They should stop expanding their illegal settlements, stop detaining Palestinian children and put effort into peace talks. As a start. Lots and lots of concrete actions that could have been taken and haven’t for the last two decades
Gideon Levy is the only man with answers.
What’s indefensible is the double standards against Israel, and lazy dishonest reporting, moral relativism, and revisionist history. What’s glaring here is that like all who criticize Israel none of you have any actual solutions. It’s easy to pontificate from the sidelines while navel gazing at your own moral superiority. There are so many problems with this interview. It’s difficult to know where even to begin. So disappointing from Katie.
"What’s indefensible is the double standards against Israel, and lazy dishonest reporting, moral relativism, and revisionist history."
Which are all things that israel, particularly the right wing israelis, are exceptionally proficient at.
"What’s glaring here is that like all who criticize Israel none of you have any actual solutions. "
The ONLY way you could say that (and still be honest) is to absolutely ignore all the solutions you do not like. Saying something like, 'well, all those other solutions...THOSE are unacceptable solutions'.
" It’s easy to pontificate from the sidelines while navel gazing at your own moral superiority."
Easy or hard. Makes no difference to level of correctness. Agreed?
"There are so many problems with this interview. It’s difficult to know where even to begin. So disappointing from Katie."
...but what else would anyone expect a zionist to say? Give it a fair review? Ha! 😄😄
Only those with no argument resort to ad hominem attacks. The irony is that if you have a problem with Zionism you’ve proven my point.
@@brianrichardcohn2159 The ONLY way you could say that (and still be honest) is to absolutely ignore all the solutions you do not like.
It was a short interview for a very complicated situation. Like you could do better in 30 min or less.
No excuse for double standards
The Palestinian leadership doesn’t want peace - it would have happened if they did a million years ago. A little accountability helps
We have heard it all before.
If Israel wanted peace, Israel wouldn't elect the utterly corrupt, psychopathic leaders like Benjamin Netanyahu, who is just a Jewish version of Putin.
It's the same behavior worldwide - morally insane people always vote for morally insane "strong hand" leaders.
You are incorrect!
@@bkm2797All fricken evidence to the contrary...
Palestinain leadership wants peace just about as much as the israeli leadership does. A LOT of accountability is in the offing.
❤️
Ok, Israel has estimated the number of trained armed militants in Gaza from the ranks of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others at about 60,000. How is that proportionally to the population of Gaza? They are based under the civilian infrastructure including schools, hospitals, Mosques, etc. The militants wear civilian clothing and are difficult to identify. First - what recent military conflict can you compare this too? Secondly, to get really surgical would mean to increase exponentially the risk to the Israeli military personnel and that would be exactly what Hamas wants. Hamas, de facto the government of Gaza takes all the steps to put their own people in harms way - intentionally. Let's not forget that there is a looming threat from the North and West. So to my lefty friends here and in Israel I say - you should shove your feelings where the sun don't shine. Israel is doing a very difficult job right now. Nobody enjoys it. Israeli soldiers would much rather be with their families now. Hopefully after the war there could be a fresh start for both Israelis and Palestinians.
A possible comparison is Northern Ireland in terms of a (mostly) non-uniformed force embedded in a (mostly?) sympathetic population and faced by a vastly militarily superior perceived occupier. Perhaps some lessons can be learnt from the progress made there?
Secondly there is indeed going to be a high price paid in Israel itself in terms of PTSD and other mental illness amongst troops. This is likely to be long lasting with untold effects on the politics of the region.
The mental health toll in Gaza is beyond my comprehension but there is no good reason to think everyone will just suddenly forgive and forget especially of the Palestinians are denied a voice and hope. Netanyahu's government track record here is deeply worrying (cf what is happening on the West bank).
The basic problem to use your wording, is that Israel does not know what "difficult job" it is doing. As Mr Beauchamp points out, no clear end goal is a very dangerous situation.
Glad to see this message is breaking through.
I don’t think it’s breaking through enough. Heads of universities are still having to resign.
@@carolinemaybe yes, the imbalance is still there…
You are way too generous towards the Israelis. Somehow, you always give them the benefit of doubt
Giving Palenstine a path forward with their own state has been attempted multiple times throughout the years, including Israel giving up territory to achieve it, yet, Palestine refused it each time. I don't know what more Israel can do. Unless the Palestinian people reject Hamas and force them out of Palestine, this situation will continue.
Israel gave up territory?! You do realize that israel does not have borders, right? They are slowly occupying the whole of Palestine, something never agreed in 1948.
@@71suns Read the message above again. So-called Palestinians had all the chances to have their state. They rejected that.
The Palestinians have had the opportunity to become a recognized state in the past and live in harmony with other states, Israel included, but chose not to. They're to blame for their present condition and their wish to die for their religion should be honored and granted. I only wish the adults of their society would not drag their children with them to the grave but they are. A sad state of affairs, actually.
When you giving 55% of the land to33 % of the minority nobody would acepte that israel wants it all 140 of the same
The question should be about the moral obligation for the rest of us. It would be nice if some Arab nations would accept Palestinian refugees, for example.
Why? They are Palestinians and should stay in their land, Palestine.
@@zaraig5373 I just want them to be safe, brother. I was talking about refugees, people who wish Egypt or Jordan or qatar would accept them. I wasn't talking about people who prefer to stay in the region. Why would Arab Nations refuse to accept refugees who want to relocate for their own safety? I can't figure it out, can you help me understand the reason?
Some people say Gaza is an open-air prison. If somebody imprisoned you in your own home, I wouldn't want you to have to stay there. But it's your home so you should be able to if you want. But if you wanted to come to my place as a refugee, I would let you.
It's sad so many Arab Nations keep Gazans trapped in an open-air prison.
This man's information is so out of date as to be laughable.
Do Better.
I suggest you take a listen to Eylon Levy -- he can dispute this peaceniks uninformed observations.
For now, he s just an apologist for Hamas, and holding Israel to a double standard and a higher standard than any other country on the planet. There is a word for that.
Israel is a fascist state.
Is his last name pronounced like /Bo camp/
Could be mistaken but I recalled IDF fired first and broke the truce.
The battle cry of useless people
Read Qur'an, everything will be clear.
🇵🇸
Zack is what passes for a senior correspondent at Vox? He knows even less about the region than any business person who's business career has taken them to the nations around the Mediterranean, from Italy to Egypt to Israel, Tunisia, it matters not exactly which countries. The educational system in the US must be very near to collapse. Zack should shave off his beard and wear a little school boy uniform as they do in some British schools.
He's wearing his pjs
Madam
Philistines son of soles
And owner of Land's (Philistines)
Imeddiatley I phlistines defeated to occupieds forces (Israel )
Philistines not migratee to any country
Greater Israel
Greater Bharat(Akhand Bharet)
Greater united Kingdom
Finished
Thanks
🤮
Get out
🤔
Katie has really aged! She's still a plain Jane... but a lot older!
Twattish thing to say tbh
So is 99% of her "alleged" journalism. @@lacolocha75
It’s her intellect you should focus on. And her message
LOL! awww clearly - like most Trolls -you just need some attention = poor freak