Very nice instructional video. I am adding similar lighting to a 600 now. The headlight lenses for other 600 series locomotives (part 622-12) fit into the 600 housing and provide a nice finish to the headlight. A little hot glue can be used to attach the LED to the lens. Thanks again for the video.
I figured this out in my 20's and now I'm 58. Back then I just used some small clear 12 volt Christmas light bulbs, cut from the light set and black electrical tape to hold them in place while letting the original light be as it was. 2 position reverse unit. Just figure out on the reversing unit which was forward and which was reverse and the other wires went to either the power center rail or the ground outside rail. I have not done any since then. I do seam to recall adding a backup light to a Marx slope back tender in a similar way some years before. PS: Zoom Spout sewing machine oil does wonders on these motors and other moving parts. Amazing what it did for my car's stick shift cables and moving parts as well.
Thanks for the tips! I didn’t seem to have any luck trying to tap into the e-unit. Maybe the three position and two position ones are different enough to make it work, I’ll have to try that out.
Concerning motor: It sounds as though the truck sides need retaking. Possibly the commutator needs a shaft shim insulating washer but I think the staking of the truck is shifting against the armature.
You are correct. After quite a bit of fiddling, I’ve added a very thin shim to each side of the plastic plate on the bottom and it runs much better, more of a bandaid than a fox, but for now it works.
I wouldn't do that to a collector quality piece, but for a layout runner it adds a little extra detail that Lionel never did. So many of those lower end engines didn't even have a light in the first place so to add directional lighting is a serious upgrade and adds visual interest to them. Great job.
Thanks. It certainly adds some fun to the lower end pieces. There were not permanent changes to these engines, so it shouldn’t affect value. Even a more valuable engine, as long as you don’t have to alter or drill through anything, the lights could always be removed later. Of course I don’t plan on owning any collector quality pieces so it’s probably immaterial 😆
It works pretty well, it’s a Weller from Home Depot. I find that if it’s plugged in for a while it tends to get too hot, so I just unplug it for 30 seconds between solders.
@@baldypalmsrailroad ok now that’s going too far! If I can’t do it with out electronics, then it ain’t happening. Unless… I do have some Arduino boards lying around….
Great video. I have stayed away from LED lighting on my postwar layout because of an experience I had with LED replacement bulbs. They flickered really bad. I wound up using the standard bulbs instead. I used to model in HO till my eyes started to give out and remember well how great LED headlights looked in HO. I wonder if these LEDs are less susceptable to the flicker than the bayonet or screw in ones. I ordered some from Amazon to give a try again and see how well they work on my own layout. Thanks for sharing the video and I look forward to watching more.
I think a small capacitor would really do wonders to help cure the flicker. I haven’t tried the replacement led bulbs but I’ve wanted to. I think LEDs are more obvious when they flicker since they are in off instead of dimming.
@@dagryffynhobby A capicator would be a good starting point. You dont need a very large one, just big enough to stay on when the loco is bridging those bits of dirty track or gaps. There is one issue to overcome first though. In order for a capicator to store electricity, it needs to be DC and not the AC that our trains run on. While the LED is rectifying the AC for its own use, a capicator would still see the AC current and pass it through, cutting off the power to the LED. An extra diode in series to the Capicator would prevent this, however, care would be needed to ensure the series diode is the same polarity as the lamp LED. If the lamp now seems dim, a bridge rectifyer may be needed. It would certainly be a nice little project to tackle. Time to start digging in my old parts boxes and get out the breadboard again :)
@@richardstewart4135 100..220uF right across the LED results in ~0.2...0.5 second time constant, eliminating flickering even when passing through 022 switches. The series diode you mention also prevents the capacitor discharging via the motor windings. Placing the capacitor right across the LED allows using a low-voltage (e.g. 6.3V or 10V) miniature electrolytic.
LOL! Based on your inspiration from last week, I added directional lighting to my 600 this week. The great tipping is that the low current draw of the LEDs means no performance hit. My 600 had the same crankiness as yours. I did 3 things to settle it down: I put a drip (that is a partial drop) of oil on the plunger of the e-unit, very slightly bent out the e-unit pawl, and cleans/lubricated the motor. It runs reliably now.
Happy to be of inspiration! That’s funny that you were working on the 600 also. The e unit is actually good. The motor truck is loose, the sides move and allow the black plastic part on the bottom that holds the armature to move, jamming the gears. I’ll fix it eventually.
hey I'll save ya some effort, it certainly will work for any Marx motor. Black wire goes to center rail pickup. The two wires that come off the reverse unit to the field coil just need to have a little insulation buffed off on either side of the field coil, hook the red wire to the back of the field coil for reverse light, to the front field coil wire for forward, piece a cake!! I only have 6 volt diodes so am waiting for my order from Amazon and I'll do a 1998 switcher plus a steamer with light in the tender for examples. Thanks again for the great idea!
ua-cam.com/video/I5jD3_MqyHk/v-deo.html here's a link to my Marx directional lighting tutorial, thanks so much for sharing yours and the link for the diodes!
I'm surprised you don't first wrap the bare wire ends around the notch in the solder lugs. Personally, I always do that, so on the incredibly rare occasion a solder joint does break, there is still the mechanical connection of the wire being wrapped tight around the notch in the lug.
Interesting.. I came up with a slightly more complicated design that includes steady brightness and bit bright/dim and on/off outputs. It uses exactly the same concept to get the directional signal. And then I went looking on UA-cam and found this video. If anyone is interested, I’m contemplating making the circuit boards or the design available on something like PCBWay. I’m not interested in profit, just don’t want to waste my time if nobody needs or wants it.
I assume there a few ways to go about this, I was looking for super basic. I’m sure there is an interest in a board that would create the same effect, but I couldn’t tell you how many. If you made one, I could do a video on it and we could see where it goes
@@dagryffynhobby I take back the cab lighting and think a tutorial on rear tender light is better. Lol, I hope I'm not being pushy. The slope back tender on the 736 is a good one to try.
The issue (if we can call it that) with this style of power truck is: when the armature rotates in one direction, the worm gear on the end pulls down. When the armature reverses rotation, it pushes up. You will notice this if you run it slowly with the cover off. The way to resolve this is by putting a short piece of brass tubing on the shaft to take up the slack in the movement upward. Also: make sure there is a small ball bearing in the plastic bearing plate mounted in the truck. If you look at the Lionel service manual page for these engines it will confirm this.
Makes sense, that’s why it goes better in forward than it does in reverse. I’m sure it’s missing a ball bearing, but the truck side plates are also very loose. I have to stop procrastinating and order some parts!
The problem I have with this, is that you don't know how much current or voltage is going into those LED's. You typically need to have current limit resistors is series with an LED to prevent it from burning out. How long did your LED"s last? If they haven't been damaged yet, then I'm impressed. I tried this, and mine burned out...
The LEDs I use are sold by Eve model on Amazon and are for model trains, they have a resistor already soldered in. I have had no problems yet except when I tried to use other LEDs without resistors.
@@dagryffynhobby I checked out the LEDs at Amazon, now I understand. Another question I have is: isn't the voltage collected at the motor for the LED connections an AC voltage? That would be feeding AC into the LEDs...
@@dadnyfur yes it is AC. They work on both ac and dc although they perform better on dc. For headlights it isn’t noticeable but when powering by ac in a passenger car you can see the LEDs pulse.
what is the 3 wire connector you are using? I illuminated my 610 by grounding one LED line to the chassis and splicing the hot lead to the E-Unit hot lead. That turned the lights on at both ends, no directional selection.
Dave what size LED did you use or do you have a link I saw you had ever more LED in one of your descriptions I want to do this to some Missouri Pacific 205 alcos just the front light
I added the Amazon link for the LEDs I used to the video description. There are the same ones I’ve used in other projects where a single led was needed.
Any information on constant directional led lighting? I did this on HO diesels many years ago when I was actively modeling in HO. Now I am fooling with old school lionel and will eventually go down that road when I get other mechanical issues on these engines settled.
Not sure what you mean specifically by constant directional. One thing I’m looking at is putting a red LED on each end also to light up for indicating the rear of the engine.
@@dagryffynhobby Constant directional lighting is a circuit that not only illuminates the led in the specific direction that the locomotive is going but, provides the same level of illumination regardless of the track voltage level....thus the constant level of illumination.
@@lorettacaputo6997 ah that makes sense! I’ve thought about doing something basic like adding a small capacitor, but haven’t tried yet. I don’t plan on installing any electronics, only old school tricks.
I have to correct myself thinking about my comment. The constant lighting circuit is designed for an incandescent bulb, not an led. This keeps the incandescent bulb at a constant brilliance. It has been a few years since I played with model railroad circuitry .
@@lorettacaputo6997 more complicated circuit, an ac to dc buck boost converter would work to keep it constant and I think a 220 uh choke in series with it so mth dcs will work if you use dcs on your layout
How does those motors work? Is only one side to a brush getting power in forward and then the other side gets it in reverse? What kind of LEDs are those? Just a standard LED, or are they made for AC current? Are you using 5mm LEDs? Sorry for so many questions, I'm just now trying to learn about using them?
Yes. Lol. Yeah one led to one brush other led to other. They are evemodel LEDs off of Amazon. I do believe they are 5 mm. They are dc but I haven’t had a problem. When used to light passenger cars, there is a visible pulse due to the cure, but for headlights it’s not noticeable Always happy to answer questions
@@dagryffynhobby thanks, I never new only one brush got power at a time on an open frame motor and that controlled direction. I never did understand why they had three wires. To reduce the flicker in your passenger cars you could put a bridge rectifier and a capacitor in them. The capacitor would go on the DC side of the rectifier (I'm sure you knew that).
@@inscoredbz I’m new to bridge rectifiers and whatnot. The passenger cars were done with the goal of cheap. I need to redo them so I’m thinking using a rectifier and whatnot would be a good addition and learning project
Just completed this on my 600 MKT Switcher. Works like a charm. Thank you Dave!
Fantastic! You are very welcome 👍
Very nice instructional video. I am adding similar lighting to a 600 now. The headlight lenses for other 600 series locomotives (part 622-12) fit into the 600 housing and provide a nice finish to the headlight. A little hot glue can be used to attach the LED to the lens. Thanks again for the video.
That’s a great tip, I hadn’t even thought of that option.
Brilliant! Thanks for creating and sharing this video!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
I figured this out in my 20's and now I'm 58. Back then I just used some small clear 12 volt Christmas light bulbs, cut from the light set and black electrical tape to hold them in place while letting the original light be as it was. 2 position reverse unit. Just figure out on the reversing unit which was forward and which was reverse and the other wires went to either the power center rail or the ground outside rail. I have not done any since then. I do seam to recall adding a backup light to a Marx slope back tender in a similar way some years before. PS: Zoom Spout sewing machine oil does wonders on these motors and other moving parts. Amazing what it did for my car's stick shift cables and moving parts as well.
Thanks for the tips! I didn’t seem to have any luck trying to tap into the e-unit. Maybe the three position and two position ones are different enough to make it work, I’ll have to try that out.
Great job
Thank you👍
I would have never thought to do this with my postwar engines. Looks like I have winter project.
I think I just wondered one day if I could. It doesn’t always work great but it works good enough!
Seems like you've found your directional in life...nice going! T4
Direction is of the utmost importance!
@@dagryffynhobby Yes, and a headlight that is lit to see the way! T4
Awesomeness!!
Thanks!
Concerning motor: It sounds as though the truck sides need retaking. Possibly the commutator needs a shaft shim insulating washer but I think the staking of the truck is shifting against the armature.
You are correct. After quite a bit of fiddling, I’ve added a very thin shim to each side of the plastic plate on the bottom and it runs much better, more of a bandaid than a fox, but for now it works.
Awesome! Now I gotta go out an get a Post War Engine and try it out..😀👍
Yes you do. 👍
I wouldn't do that to a collector quality piece, but for a layout runner it adds a little extra detail that Lionel never did. So many of those lower end engines didn't even have a light in the first place so to add directional lighting is a serious upgrade and adds visual interest to them.
Great job.
Thanks. It certainly adds some fun to the lower end pieces. There were not permanent changes to these engines, so it shouldn’t affect value. Even a more valuable engine, as long as you don’t have to alter or drill through anything, the lights could always be removed later. Of course I don’t plan on owning any collector quality pieces so it’s probably immaterial 😆
Agreed. The 600 is very inexpensive, even though it was made only in 1955. I found them on eBay this week for less than $80 shipped.
@@scpvrr I think this one was $40, it was a mess when I got it.
This guys pretty amazing at soldering. I think I need one of those little ones.
It works pretty well, it’s a Weller from Home Depot. I find that if it’s plugged in for a while it tends to get too hot, so I just unplug it for 30 seconds between solders.
Nice mod Dave, I like the added feature. Love the grinding of those old Pulmar motors. Next is to add some modern ditch lights. Haha 👍🚂😊
Thanks. Not a bad idea! I’ve thought about that but only in passing, maybe it requires more consideration.
@@dagryffynhobby haha I’ll add one more thing, have the ditch light alternate flashing… 😊 you’d probably need a small pc board for that. Skål Ron//
@@baldypalmsrailroad ok now that’s going too far! If I can’t do it with out electronics, then it ain’t happening. Unless…
I do have some Arduino boards lying around….
@@dagryffynhobby yup I get it, just shaking the couplings… 😀
That is so cool! Realistic. You made it so simple. Im doing this to my switchers.
Thanks Bill. Simple and easy was the goal!
Great video. I have stayed away from LED lighting on my postwar layout because of an experience I had with LED replacement bulbs. They flickered really bad. I wound up using the standard bulbs instead. I used to model in HO till my eyes started to give out and remember well how great LED headlights looked in HO. I wonder if these LEDs are less susceptable to the flicker than the bayonet or screw in ones. I ordered some from Amazon to give a try again and see how well they work on my own layout. Thanks for sharing the video and I look forward to watching more.
I think a small capacitor would really do wonders to help cure the flicker. I haven’t tried the replacement led bulbs but I’ve wanted to. I think LEDs are more obvious when they flicker since they are in off instead of dimming.
@@dagryffynhobby A capicator would be a good starting point. You dont need a very large one, just big enough to stay on when the loco is bridging those bits of dirty track or gaps. There is one issue to overcome first though. In order for a capicator to store electricity, it needs to be DC and not the AC that our trains run on. While the LED is rectifying the AC for its own use, a capicator would still see the AC current and pass it through, cutting off the power to the LED. An extra diode in series to the Capicator would prevent this, however, care would be needed to ensure the series diode is the same polarity as the lamp LED. If the lamp now seems dim, a bridge rectifyer may be needed. It would certainly be a nice little project to tackle. Time to start digging in my old parts boxes and get out the breadboard again :)
@@richardstewart4135 100..220uF right across the LED results in ~0.2...0.5 second time constant, eliminating flickering even when passing through 022 switches. The series diode you mention also prevents the capacitor discharging via the motor windings. Placing the capacitor right across the LED allows using a low-voltage (e.g. 6.3V or 10V) miniature electrolytic.
LOL! Based on your inspiration from last week, I added directional lighting to my 600 this week. The great tipping is that the low current draw of the LEDs means no performance hit.
My 600 had the same crankiness as yours.
I did 3 things to settle it down: I put a drip (that is a partial drop) of oil on the plunger of the e-unit, very slightly bent out the e-unit pawl, and cleans/lubricated the motor. It runs reliably now.
Happy to be of inspiration! That’s funny that you were working on the 600 also. The e unit is actually good. The motor truck is loose, the sides move and allow the black plastic part on the bottom that holds the armature to move, jamming the gears. I’ll fix it eventually.
@@dagryffynhobby another great video from a really great train collector
@@railchief74 thank you 👍
excellent! I'd be curious how to wire a Marx 1998 switcher to make this work?
I’ll have to pick one up and look into it.
hey I'll save ya some effort, it certainly will work for any Marx motor. Black wire goes to center rail pickup. The two wires that come off the reverse unit to the field coil just need to have a little insulation buffed off on either side of the field coil, hook the red wire to the back of the field coil for reverse light, to the front field coil wire for forward, piece a cake!! I only have 6 volt diodes so am waiting for my order from Amazon and I'll do a 1998 switcher plus a steamer with light in the tender for examples. Thanks again for the great idea!
ua-cam.com/video/I5jD3_MqyHk/v-deo.html here's a link to my Marx directional lighting tutorial, thanks so much for sharing yours and the link for the diodes!
@@jlebaron1 awesome! Love the work you do on your trains
Thanks! I enjoy your videos too!@@dagryffynhobby
Super genius! This is great 👍 One of your best videos on postwar locomotives.
Thanks! 👍
Nice! I always wanted to know how to do this. I'll have to try this with my Rock island SW8.
Great! It’s something I wanted to figure out for a while. Give it a shot!
I'm surprised you don't first wrap the bare wire ends around the notch in the solder lugs. Personally, I always do that, so on the incredibly rare occasion a solder joint does break, there is still the mechanical connection of the wire being wrapped tight around the notch in the lug.
I do sometimes, depends on my mood, the part, what type of wire, etc. but you are right, I should do it that way all the time.
You should try and add a red backup light to a streamlined tender, the one i use behind my 2055 has openings at the back right where lights would go
I have a couple tenders with the holes, I will be working on that soon 👍
@@dagryffynhobby sweet, hope to find some cheap leds so i can do it on mine, just to add that little bit of extra detail
@@Tyc11114 search evemore led on Amazon and see what you find
@@dagryffynhobby Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out
Interesting.. I came up with a slightly more complicated design that includes steady brightness and bit bright/dim and on/off outputs. It uses exactly the same concept to get the directional signal. And then I went looking on UA-cam and found this video.
If anyone is interested, I’m contemplating making the circuit boards or the design available on something like PCBWay. I’m not interested in profit, just don’t want to waste my time if nobody needs or wants it.
I assume there a few ways to go about this, I was looking for super basic.
I’m sure there is an interest in a board that would create the same effect, but I couldn’t tell you how many.
If you made one, I could do a video on it and we could see where it goes
Say Dave, how did you hook up the LEDs to an AC motor! 🤔
They flicker a little because of the ac but they still work.
Great job Dave! I will definitely try this. I hope you experiment and try cab lighting in PW too, hint, hint. 😄
I have about 10 LEDs left, so I’ll fiddle around at least that much with different applications!
@@dagryffynhobby I take back the cab lighting and think a tutorial on rear tender light is better. Lol, I hope I'm not being pushy. The slope back tender on the 736 is a good one to try.
@@georgewhitacre8276 push on! The tender is what got my mind on the subject of directional lighting. So I will be working on that soon 👍
@@dagryffynhobby awesome! Carry on! 👍
The issue (if we can call it that) with this style of power truck is: when the armature rotates in one direction, the worm gear on the end pulls down. When the armature reverses rotation, it pushes up. You will notice this if you run it slowly with the cover off. The way to resolve this is by putting a short piece of brass tubing on the shaft to take up the slack in the movement upward. Also: make sure there is a small ball bearing in the plastic bearing plate mounted in the truck. If you look at the Lionel service manual page for these engines it will confirm this.
Makes sense, that’s why it goes better in forward than it does in reverse. I’m sure it’s missing a ball bearing, but the truck side plates are also very loose. I have to stop procrastinating and order some parts!
Great video, do you know the physical size of the LED you used. Usually they come in 3mm, 5mm, and 10mm sizes. Looking forward to your response.
I think they are the 5mm LEDs
The problem I have with this, is that you don't know how much current or voltage is going into those LED's. You typically need to have current limit resistors is series with an LED to prevent it from burning out. How long did your LED"s last? If they haven't been damaged yet, then I'm impressed. I tried this, and mine burned out...
The LEDs I use are sold by Eve model on Amazon and are for model trains, they have a resistor already soldered in. I have had no problems yet except when I tried to use other LEDs without resistors.
@@dagryffynhobby I checked out the LEDs at Amazon, now I understand. Another question I have is: isn't the voltage collected at the motor for the LED connections an AC voltage? That would be feeding AC into the LEDs...
@@dadnyfur yes it is AC. They work on both ac and dc although they perform better on dc. For headlights it isn’t noticeable but when powering by ac in a passenger car you can see the LEDs pulse.
what is the 3 wire connector you are using? I illuminated my 610 by grounding one LED line to the chassis and splicing the hot lead to the E-Unit hot lead. That turned the lights on at both ends, no directional selection.
The connector is just one I found on Amazon, nothing special.
That sounds right. The e unit hot lead is connected directly to the center rail pickup.
Dave what size LED did you use or do you have a link I saw you had ever more LED in one of your descriptions I want to do this to some Missouri Pacific 205 alcos just the front light
I added the Amazon link for the LEDs I used to the video description.
There are the same ones I’ve used in other projects where a single led was needed.
Any information on constant directional led lighting? I did this on HO diesels many years ago when I was actively modeling in HO. Now I am fooling with old school lionel and will eventually go down that road when I get other mechanical issues on these engines settled.
Not sure what you mean specifically by constant directional.
One thing I’m looking at is putting a red LED on each end also to light up for indicating the rear of the engine.
@@dagryffynhobby Constant directional lighting is a circuit that not only illuminates the led in the specific direction that the locomotive is going but, provides the same level of illumination regardless of the track voltage level....thus the constant level of illumination.
@@lorettacaputo6997 ah that makes sense! I’ve thought about doing something basic like adding a small capacitor, but haven’t tried yet. I don’t plan on installing any electronics, only old school tricks.
I have to correct myself thinking about my comment. The constant lighting circuit is designed for an incandescent bulb, not an led. This keeps the incandescent bulb at a constant brilliance. It has been a few years since I played with model railroad circuitry .
@@lorettacaputo6997 more complicated circuit, an ac to dc buck boost converter would work to keep it constant and I think a 220 uh choke in series with it so mth dcs will work if you use dcs on your layout
Do you find that the red switcher is a good puller?
Average. Not as good as the 623 or engines like that.
@@dagryffynhobby Good thing I bought a Williams Trainmaster instead.
@@SteveRenon oh much better!
What LED did you use. I want to try this on my switcher
Evemodel LEDs from Amazon. I think these are the ones:
20pcs Pre Wired 1.8mm Warm White Led Lamp Light Set 12V ~ 18V for Train Layout a.co/d/9TR0m3V
Question, does this also work for for pre-electronic e-units? Like the ones from the late 70s into the late 80s?
Should work for any mechanical e unit. I’ve only done it on these couple though.
@@dagryffynhobby Awesome, thanks!
Question, do you need a resistor in the circuit for the LED? Or is it like a 18v plus LED? Thanks and that was some nice soldering
They are rated for up to 18v and come with a resistor attached
How does those motors work? Is only one side to a brush getting power in forward and then the other side gets it in reverse? What kind of LEDs are those? Just a standard LED, or are they made for AC current? Are you using 5mm LEDs?
Sorry for so many questions, I'm just now trying to learn about using them?
Yes. Lol. Yeah one led to one brush other led to other. They are evemodel LEDs off of Amazon. I do believe they are 5 mm. They are dc but I haven’t had a problem. When used to light passenger cars, there is a visible pulse due to the cure, but for headlights it’s not noticeable
Always happy to answer questions
@@dagryffynhobby thanks, I never new only one brush got power at a time on an open frame motor and that controlled direction. I never did understand why they had three wires.
To reduce the flicker in your passenger cars you could put a bridge rectifier and a capacitor in them. The capacitor would go on the DC side of the rectifier (I'm sure you knew that).
@@inscoredbz I’m new to bridge rectifiers and whatnot. The passenger cars were done with the goal of cheap. I need to redo them so I’m thinking using a rectifier and whatnot would be a good addition and learning project