No, 12 aren't enough.
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2022
- Folks, we are back with a brand new five-episode mini series about 31 Tone Equal Temperament!
We are most grateful to proclaim that we got to work with the amazing team of the „Hamburg Open Online University“. Big thanks to Goran, Tam and Victor for all their support and work!
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Feel free to check out these links for a few 31 TET pieces that we like:
Fabio Costa - "Aphoristc Madrigal": • "Aphoristic Madrigal" ...
Mike Battaglia - "Sweet Lorraine": • Mike Battaglia | Sweet...
Zhea Erose - "Arrival": • Zhea Erose - Arrival |...
Benyamind - "Elix": • benyamind - Elix | 31-EDO
Stephen James Taylor - "Quantum 7": • QUANTUM 7 (Transcenden...
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We are also crowdfunding our debut album right now!
Support us here:
www.startnext.com/en/hear-bet...
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Huge shoutout to our loyal patrons who are supporting us on our journey. Want to become part of the family? Check out our Patreon page!
/ hearbetweenthelines
Follow us on Instagram:
/ hearbtwthelines
Stay tuned 🙂
"Microtonal jazz harmonies to impress your friends." Now I know what I've been doing wrong during dinner parties.
Lol they hardly let you play 10 seconds of jazz before asking you to play some silly Chris Brown song with only 2 chords. Microtonal is out of the qestion.
I loved the "wolf" when you talked about the circle of fifths not closing. For those who didn't get the joke, that dissonant interval is known as the "wolf tone"
Yeah, it’s a fun interval, but really not a fifth by any means ;)
One of the things I really like about 31edo is that it's possible to make nice sense of it even without any special extra accidentals, just continuing the circle of fifths upward into double sharps and downward into double flats is enough to reach all the notes, and every major and minor scale is a contiguous segment of the circle of fifths still, which makes it easier to find good keyboard layouts. Of course, having that bit of extra notation can help in cases like when you're reaching for the 11th harmonic (and not also like a chain of thirds leading out to it) and making quite a big leap outside the key.
Lately I've been playing around with mapping quarter comma meantone onto my layout for 31 equal (usually Wicki-Hayden), which makes the failure of the circle of fifths to really close itself almost unnoticeable, and you get perfectly tuned major thirds, and trade off a little bit of accuracy of the 7th harmonic to get a better 11th harmonic. Not sure if I really prefer it, the difference is extremely small after all, but it's a nice option to try.
I love your improvisations!
Awesome video! This is a great introduction to the 31 TET tuning system, really easy to understand! You guys nailed it! :D
Thanks a lot! We tried :) 4 more videos in this series, so stay tuned! :)
A new Hear Between the Lines video!!!
This day couldn't get any better! 😊
Great stuff, looking forward to this series! Cheers for the link in the description! 👍
Of course, Ben, your music is just really good. :)
love yall funky fellas!
Well done! Breaking down microtonality into digestible bites is tough! You both are getting really good at it.
Love the video you guys! Ooooh, you got so close to the concept for Aaron Hunt’s Tonal Plexus with the comment about 5 cent steps!!! The Tonal Plexus uses 205-TET, with a (41-TET * 5) approach
Oh my, we'd love to have one of those - sad, they don't get produced anymore...
Fantastic stuff!
Thanks for your slick videos, love the content and delivery
Thanks for your slick comment, love the content and delivery! ;)
That piece that you showed at the end sounded really nice! The production value in this channel is amazing. Hope you get more views.
Aw thanks, that makes us very happy. We sure hope so, too!
this video is so good! it almost distracts me from wondering which one of you is the clone
Hehehehe....
first video of yours that I see and it looks super polished and comfy
"Polished and comfy" is my new goal for everything in life hahaha, great combo
Is that a lumatone i see behind you guys 👀 Great vid guys!
Yeeeees :)
Great stuff as always, well done guys!
Thanks, Erik! Looking forward to some new Neod videos :D
@@HearBetweenTheLines Cheers, me too, just got to get all the little pieces together!
Personally 17 tet is my favorite. Got the murcury tree sound
Gonna check it out later this year, for sure!
@HearBetweenTheLines yes! Look up mercury tree, self similar album.
If you like prog metal and king gizzard stuff you'll be blown away.
@@HearBetweenTheLines please lemme know what ya think!
Nice reboot! Looking forward to the next one :) it would be amazing to have a video on the most popular TETs (off hand 7,10,15,17,19,22,24,34,41,53,72 and 96) then ditch the octave completely and do Bohlen Pierce and the Carlos tunings! :)
Thanks James!
Totally, although we'd need to be educated on those first, too, to be honest :) There's still so much to explore and we'd like to only present stuff (at least in this kind of format) that we feel like we have a grasp on.
@@HearBetweenTheLines I agree, and this is what I was talking to Stephen Weigel about on his podcast about how every single tuning wild require it's own theory and set of symbols there's no real general rule that everybody can follow. 12, 19, 22, 24 and 31 have a solid set of symbols but even using "fries" in 31 is tricky because that's linked to be 3 quarter tones which 31 doesn't have. It's sooooo tricky. Thank you for at least starting the conversation though
@@HearBetweenTheLines There's an excellent UA-cam series by HEHEHE I AM A SUPAHSTAR SAGA on 19 TET that's good for getting introduced to its unique flavor. The biggest selling points off the top of my head:
- It's very close to 1/3 comma meantone, which means its minor third and major sixth are less than a single cent off from just, and its major third and perfect fifth are only 1/3 of the syntonic comma (~7 cents) off.
- It translates mostly perfectly from 12 TET notation-wise, just that there are no enharmonics besides E#/Fb and B#/Cb
- Just like 31, 19 is prime so you get new asymmetries compared to 12 TET
- You get new intervals like supermajor and subminor thirds and the harmonic 7th to play with
- It's very manageable thanks to its relatively small size compared to the likes of 31 or 53.
amazing video! really enjoyed it
Glad you enjoyed it!
5:57 lol, literal wolf tone
Awooooooo
I really like the music in the description. I'm more interested in harmony than just exotic notes. Do you have a spotify playlist?
I love your approach to exploring micro tonality. How would you recommend experimenting with it in a DAW environment? is there a particular plugin that makes woking with 31TET intuitive or comfortable for you?
12 is not enough, and so is 31. But 1200 is enough
More than enough, I'd say, but hey, go for it!
Just discovered radical tenderness through the Dolores Catherino feature, and I've really been enjoying it! I'm curious to know if either of you are familiar with Ben Johnstons work. If so, did it influence the album in any way?
Oh how lovely! Glad you're enjoying the album :)
We do absolutely adore Ben's work, he's been a great source of inspiration!
I like the microtonal intro!
Hahaha, yeah, it was a lot of fun to record :)
what the hell is that instrument at 6:18?
Lmfao flarp and shat
And heart and fries! ;)
What music is in the background?
Great video, not a lot of talking around, but getting to the point. Oh and also, man hört, dass ihr Deutsch seid :D
Hahaha, väll, sätz hau it iß, ai geß.
Klät ju entschoit!
In an edo, how do you find where the just chords are close to? Even using scala, I don't get it. If anything, it will only list them based off the bottom scale note.
EDIT: Ok, I'm starting to get it. It's kind of a pain.
equal 31
set attrib notation
set notation e31
set maxdiff 11.1 (get the 13/8)
chords/match/constrained
chords/match/constrained 1
etc
Whats the boxy looking wind instrument with the sliding panels in that example at the end?
It sounds like a soprano sax, but is almost certainly home-made - I'd guess that it can be programmed to play in ANY tuning system, so long as you're not playing too fast for the servos to react and give you a tone-hole in exactly the right place.
Did the other videos from this series ever make their way onto UA-cam?
Yeah, they're all here in this playlist: ua-cam.com/video/B1sdMP3Ne74/v-deo.html
One point you didn't get into: 31-TET is also a compromise, between EDO microtonality and Partch/Johnston microtonality. It tries to combine EDO's ease of and possibilities for modulation with the exact consonances of the Partch/Johnston approach. In a way, it's the same idea as 12-TET, but taken further.
Absolutely right!
What are you guys' thoughts on bohlen-pierce?
Sounds great in theory! ;) Nah, for real, we don't really feel the tritave yet, but hey, it might grow on us. We're open! Send us your favourite BP tracks!
@@HearBetweenTheLines I can definitely understand, I don't listen to BP music much (coz unfortunately no one composes BP death metal 😂) so still I struggle with hearing the tritave as equivalent. Tho some songs make me straight up forget that's even a problem like this one:
ua-cam.com/video/MXzk0Z8n8MY/v-deo.html
or this one:
ua-cam.com/video/MzgUkhViIFw/v-deo.html
There's definitely more out there but Im more of a death metal guy in general which is why i dont listen to microtonal stuff too often, there isn't much microtonal death metal and it's rarer for me to like songs in other genres
first though
Lightning fast, what the flarp?!
amazing video but "flarp" and "shat" made me laugh so much
Good, that is one reason we picked those names :))
the blonde guy has a very charming smile
Rrrrrrrawr.... ;)
I've heard some 31-tone blues that I really enjoyed, and would like to hear more. But for a classical pianist like myself, I think I'll stick with the tuning systems that I know. After all the repertoire is so large that I'll never get around to it all.
What is the best EDO for distorted electrick guitar? 31EDO have 5 cents error on forth and fifth intervals, there will be very unpleasure beatings. I think 41EDO is the best, but may be there is something less, then 41?
if we can get used to ~14 cent error from major thirds, especially with distortion, then ~5 cent error on fifths shouldn’t be too bad. But yes, there are some smaller systems with great fifths, 17 is an interesting one, and if you wanna hear 17edo guitar music, listen to Xotla music. 29 is another with very accurate fifths, but the other features of the system are quite lackluster so sticking with 17, 31, or 41 is better.
Playing 34 with a 17 tone guitar is possible with a specific tuning (34 is really close to 5 limit)
@@alexr3912 29EDO approximates 14/11 and 7/5 quite well
5 cents error is not as much as it seems. It would sound less than 3 cents different from the 12 tone which is 1/33rd of a semitone.
@@alexr3912 I have a fretless bass. I had to play a true 3rd for at least 5 minutes before it finally sounded right . When it finally did , it sounded much better.
Shat??
Shat hehehe
6:08 What song is that?
It's our song Colourblind from our new album: ua-cam.com/video/tNLlIo4TCOs/v-deo.html !
first time i feel truly out of my depth with music theory since i was 17 lol.
We hope not in an unsettling way? :) If you have any questions, do let us know!
12 × 3 is 36. Why not 12 tet that has been repeated on the major 3rds? It's only 5 more notes than 31 and it would have a more even feel.
That's also an option, but we like this system more, because the higher limit overtones are closer and the thirds are better in tune than in 12 :)
More notes =/= better just alignment. 31 has more than 36 despite the less notes.
I did a 100% mathematical piece that used harmonics that sounds very, harmonious, for lack of a better word. I didn't use the nastier sounding ones. Even at their true temper , an odd harmonic above 8 sounds narly. If you have a good enough guitar, hit the 11 or 13 harmonic. They sound awful. The middle Strat pickup is on the second node of the 13th harmonic , that's why it sounds so squirrelly, and so few use it alone.
shat huh
Shat... yeah...
this seems like a fragile keyboard stand for a keyboard worth 4k.
Hahahaha
@@HearBetweenTheLines lol : ))
i got one of them beauty!
the Lumatone, not the keyboard stand. 😄
except it cost me 5.8k Canadian dollars. lol
It’s hard to sing more than 12 notes. The diatonic scale is also a great feat of geometry. 31 notes don’t do that.
15 does. 24 does. What's your point?
Couldn't we say it's hard to sing any tones we haven't been exposed to again and again?
Totally, I thought I was the only one thinking (about) that!
Why is everybody always talking about overtones? People who dont use 12TET always wanna tell you 12TET is out of tune, but who says that just intonation is *the* correct way to tune? Because guess what... just intonation is also just an approximation. Some intervals will never aline with the ratios from the overtone series. If you wanna play in 31TET, good for you, go for it. But dont try to tell everybody else they play out of tune, because thats bs. There are way more tuning systems in the world that dont use overtones to tune, than those which do. Just take a look outside tradinational western music for once...
Dudes I love this but come on, flarp and shat? Ya gotta do better than that lol. So flarp and heart sound like sharp, but strangely for the flats.. and fries is kinda cute but shat sounds like flat but is sharp. Yall crazy but it sounds amazing, cheers
Thanks hahahaha, come up with something better if you don't like it, it works for us!
We just wanted monosyllabic words to be able to quickly communicate our ideas to each other.
Flarp - Flat but a little sharp
Shat - Sharp but a little flat
Heart and Fries cause of their respective shapes.
We thought it'd be funny if people in academia started unironically using these to describe microtonal phenomena, but didn't think it'd happen (especially so quickly). Now we teach a microtonal ensemble at our university and people *are* using it, so what do you know...
You don't need to compꝛomiſe. I wiſh ſomeone would beleeue me. 5 Limit is the way, keep it pure, hauing a cloſed circle is not neceſſary. In my ſyſtem which ranges between 163 and 196 notes per octaue, 5 limit tuning is quite ſufficient and wholeſome, while giuing ſo many tuning options while compoſing oꝛ arranging. Fretleſſe guitar and a keyboard layout deſigned foꝛ this tuning as well as oꝛcheſtral inſtruments and voices and others function quite well and electronics and amplification is not neceſſary.
Are you a time traveler, paſſing through from 200 yearſ ago?
Lol is this targeted at 6 year olds?
Absolutely
i started disliking edos lately
It's a pendulum, I also go back and forth :)
From 6:55 on, it's simply out of tune music.
For correct non-tempered intonation, just listen to Indian classical music.
These guys seem nice. Why do they annoy me? Maybe it’s just the scripted delivery
use normal microphones at normal settings, cut your hair, and put some shoes on, wtf
i like to use 31 a lot. especially to intonate, or perfect harmony/chords that are meh in 12 tone. take the minMaj7(9) for example, in 12 tone - it sounds good via arpeggio. But if you were to do a comping or any type of rhythm for that chord in 12 tone, it just doesn't have that crunch. With 31 tone, I can make that chord sound as percussively reliable as a normal mi7. It's just hard to consistently make something with it because there isent enough musical reference