5.56mm NATO Green Tip: 200 Yd Accuracy and "Steel Punch"
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- Опубліковано 18 лис 2024
- Working with a 16" barrel AR15, shooting the 62 gr 5.56mm NATO Green Tip, M855, at 200 yards. The FMJ bullet has a lead core but steel penetrator at the tip. Video shows some accuracy groups, with objective of eventually hitting a 4" steel plate, 1/4" thick, at 200 yards and getting a pass through.
Ammo is military surplus 5.56mm, Lake City 2005 production date. Rifle is a Bushmaster lower receiver, Rock River Arms upper with 16" barrel, 1:9 twist. I'm using an EoTech 516, no magnification. Target is IPSC, 18"x24", AR500 from Mike Gibson Targets. The clamps are from Lowes :-) .
rumble.com/use...
That is incredible. Almost ten years later and this info is still exactly what I needed, thank-you. I sprained my ankle about six months ago and it is still giving me problems, hope yours healed up okay:)
February 2015: Responding to this long ago comment from Robert Paulson: "@ 4:17 you say you cannot see. You should pull your video down or re-edit without the clearly unsafe act. This is an unsafe act, and should not be shown. You give your viewers the idea that this is a normal act in a non-combat situation with a gun, and they might follow suit. You must always know your target and beyond. thank you."
And my response.....I could see the target with the naked eye, I could not see it well through the EoTech. Also, the range property is remote, it is always checked, and it was clear. This target setup is on the side of a large hill with over 2 miles of heavily wooded property behind it.....uninhabited. The only way in is on the logging road that runs from behind me up to the target range, which is where it ends. I've been walking on this property most of my life. I know the backstops, side, what is behind me, where the deer take a shit, coyote paths, etc.
This video will not be edited, and I should not have to explain my safety precautions to everyone who perceives to know more about my setup than myself. If Mr. Paulson will supply the GPS coordinates where this took place, Google satellite map views, original deed to the property from 80 years ago, etc. and provide his expert analysis on how it could be done better, I'll listen. I get so weary of having to explain this.
***** That is how you swat a fly down!!! Love your videos, glad your back to making them and most importantly healthy!
Hey I just bought an AR15 and I was wondering what ammo would you suggest I buy
+TradeKingK1 Wolf gold, dude.
Just a weird, off beat thing I might add to this is... somebody named Robert Paulson wrote an EXCELLENT book in the 80's called "Beat the system".
And on another note "his name was Robert Paulson" was also obviously the name of the big guy in the awesome movie Fight Club.
I read the book and it blew my mind.
And hopefully the Donner Law Firm is better at law than they are at having an opinion on weapons.
lol when he said "for the record i can't see shit" i immediately hit like like button.
MrStaton352 , Same here! Had to stop vid & quit laughing first.
Dave Jan
I did the EXACT same thing!
I had to pause and laugh.
same. "Can't see shit" proceeds to shoot 3 rds cuz fuck it why not
I'm glad you decided to post this vid. With all the mental pictures in my head, I'm glad I got to see the real video. Get better soon. We have some plinking to do!
I’d be really happy with this accuracy using a 16” AR barrel, factory ammo and a scope with no magnification. What more do you want?
What more would i want?? Well lets start with id like all the above, but i want to to be a claymore once it penetrates about 4 inches lol
@Grant V my thoughts exactly.
Thanks for taking one for the team! Hope you heal up fast. I have heard people say that .223/5.56 won't go through a car door, I of course know better. My dad used to tow cars and he would bring a junker home on some weekends for us to shoot. Thanks for giving me some proof to show my buddy. Feel better and thanks again!
Love how you can actually see the rounds going down range in your videos
I miss your channel so much😪. With that said, I hope you and your family are doing will. God bless Brother..
The reason why the army uses the 1:7 twist is so that the barrel will stabilize tracer ammunition which has a projectile that is 1/3 (approximately) longer. The 1:7 barrel delivers 3 MOA with the 62 grain m855 in my experience though I was told by my armorer that the weapons are in spec to 4 MOA. The 1:9 cuts those numbers in half using m855 but the tracer ammo is highly unstable through that barrel. Seems like backwards thinking but that's what my armorer told me.
I shoot m856 all the time out of my 1/9, its got shit accuracy past 500 yards but that's where the 1/7 comes into play.
+tbone martinez
it shoots 77 grain great on a 1/7
That's when .50BMG comes into play :)
Yes, I agree with this statement. I actually prefer the 1-9 barrels, I've never had a problem shooting 75 or 77gn out of a 1-9.
1/9 vs 1/7 won't make a bit of difference when shooting lighter 55 and 62 grain ammo. The faster twist won't make the lighter projectiles less accurare. The tighter 1/7 is needed for the 70+ grain weights, though.
I love watching the rounds go down range threw your spotting scope
With a 1:7 rather than a 1:9 twist those groups would tighten up greatly. I have a similar issue with green tip in a 1:9 twist, yet the 62gr. HP are very very accurate.
No, it wouldn't. 1:9 is pretty ideal for 62gr. The main factor is that US made M855 just isn't as precise as many foreign made versions. It meets the spec but others shoot much tighter
@@mcantu197 SMH believe what you want Fact is M16A2 that shot M855 with 20inch barrel had a 1:7 twist. I have both 1:7 and 1:9 and the 1:7 shoots tighter.
@@abcertweld That’s just comparing two rifles/uppers and attributing the difference to twist. It could be for a host of reasons. M16A2 has 1:7” twist to shoot M856 Tracers, not because it’s necessary for shooting M855 accurately.
I love the modification that he did with his crutches👌
For 62gr, I bought a 1/8 twist. It's such. A great medium.
This barrel twist rate argument is retarded. With a 1.9 you are limited to 62 grain and under. A 1.7 will shoot anything reliably from 45 grain up. You cannot over stabilize a projectile in the design of 5.56 and such. As long as he projectile mass enough mass. Projectiles being over stabilized means they literally explode or the jacket and inner core seperate during flight. This is due to the thinner outer jacket of the shorter and lighter projectile. Noones going to fight with varmint rounds and you can use 55grain to hunt small game. So why go with anything but a 1.7 twist rate?
@@FreedomInc Yeah there's no way any round will over stabilize and explode or separate. You can shoot .22lr through an AR barrel and it hits the target just fine. Faster twist rate like 1:7 is more accurate for heavier rounds while slower twist rates like 1:12 are more accurate with lighter rounds. Any of them will shoot any round fine just not all accurately.
Lesson learned. No running in the woods in the dark. Hope you are doing okay now, and you heal up quickly. Your videos are important to all of us, and we care about you as well.
Thank you for again producing amazing results, and getting wounded in action for our benefit. I love your work and even more, your attitude.
I really enjoy this guy. Good science, good weapons, good voice, and gets to the point w/o talking to hear himself talk. Thank You!
that is 3 moa ammo. it doesn't matter what barrel twist you have..i see all these people commenting on barrel rates. the ammo itself is too inconsistent to ever be accurate.
Correct, and this has to do with the variation in where the steel core is placed from bullet to bullet.
Yup....If you want maximum accuracy you need quality match grade, not bulk cheap ammo.
Damn that’s hot
Wow I can literally see the bullet streaking to the target, amazing
That was awesome!
Found this channel 7 years to late.
“Your ad here” 🤣👍
Rob Galloway frs
Its amazing what a small piece of steel on the tip of a bullet can do at such high speed. It doesnt splatter like lead does, it holds its weight going through anything I've ever shot with the M855
62 grain is on the edge of 1 in 9 twist, 1 in 7 or 8 it should rock nice with enough rotation and would probably improve a lot.1 in 7 can get you up around 100 grains with enough twist to maintain accuracy. Rifles individually vary a little seems like even with the same twist.
Your absolutely correct. It has been proven many times that the 1:9twist shoots better with a 75grain bullet. Some of my best results have been with Hornady's Black 75gr BTHP ammunition shot from a 1:9twist Barrel.
1 in 8 twist is perfect for 62r 5.56 or .223
1:9 twist is for 55grain or less . 1:8 is universal and 1:7 is military use ,perfect for 77 grain . I would suggest 55 grain or 1:8 twist . RRA makes very accurate rides.
I LOVE the slow motion shots when you can actually see the vapor trail.
damn... 5 years ago..... where have I been??
Good accuracy for 1/9" twist.
i thought the same, These rounds are SICK out of a 1:7, you'll drive nails at 300 yards
Sorry about your ankle; have done it myself. The 62gr really shines in the 20" AR 15E2.It was designed to give range to the M16 family. The USSR had feilded the 5.45mm which gave their soldiers an edge over 7.62x39. I think we wanted to have a longer stand off range and the ability to penetrate the mythical Soviet body armor. Green tip does its job well but it has poor terminal performance. Great video hope your healing
You're not the only one who finds green tip to be not very accurate, I haven't had good luck with it for accuracy either.
I've never been impressed with green tips. The cheap Russian Wolf rounds are more accurate and cleaner than the lake city stuff IMO. And I'm shooting a 1:7 barrel so the heavier weight is not a problem.
The Wound ChannelI've recently put 2 rounds within 1.5" of each other, 20" Colt AR-15 1/7 twist, 200 yards, front supported. Lake City M855. 3.5X ACOG. I was very pleasantly surprised. I'll keep it. :-) (the other 3 shots spread out a little, but that was indeed me.) Your mileage may vary.
Nick X Try a 10 shot group if you want a real indication of performance ;)
The Wound Channel My ARs don't hate anything I've put through them as much as the M855.
+The Wound Channel Green tip M855 is all I ever fired in the Marine Corps. We qualify from the 200, 300, 500 yard lines with only open irons. 10 out of 10 in the head every year. It is accurate.
7-time USMC Expert Rifle qualification
SSgt E
Come bacccccccck TN!!! We miss you, man. You’re needed here.
1:32 I love it! You can watch the bullets fly through the air!
You make the best videos and that's a beautiful place you got there. Sorry about your leg and we hope you get better soon but thank you for your sacrifice. You've made some of us very happy. I love every video you make. Thanks again and I hope you recovered quick.
I enjoy your videos and therefore subscribed... even despite your .357 SIG use.
The improvised carry on the crutch was priceless
Very cool video. I really liked the drama part about you risking life and limb for your vids. God Bless
Even after the ankle and the camera toss you got the video. We can see and hear the limp in the footage. Loading a 50 lb IPSC target and shooting table must have been a challenge. That was probably a long drive home. Thanks for always getting the "shot".
man i wish i had some wooded areas near my home. :-( I'm jealous lol
Shoge Kimura I wish i would have the million to get to the us where i can own and shoot a gun , Im jealous :(
Awesome capturing the bullet as it hit the target through the spotting scope.
Accuracy, using a red dot sight at 200 yards In near darkness? Why not use a decent 8 or 10x scope for accuracy??
+Joe Nowak Just because I can. I like the challenge. My other AR's are scoped up to 16x.
+Joe Nowak I enjoy iron sights at 200 yards with my ar15 and .357 lever gun. Scope are awesome for hunting, but iron sights are just plain fun to test your shooting skill.
Joe Nowak You are correct sir.
R u kidding me. Eotech and he is looking for accuracy? 4-5 inch circle at 100 yds is all i would expect.
tnoutdoors9 exactly right, nothing was more fun for me than nailing targets at 300 meters with my M16A4 back in my days in the Army. I looked forward to qualifying because we took off the red dots and acogs and shot irons instead, can’t beat that challenge.
That was impressive. We've tested shooting through steel with handguns and Im always surprised how thick you can penetrate. Love the vids, keep it up
LOL! I love the glock holster on your crutches XD
Sorry about your ankle, but I'm glad to know I'm not the only guy who would sprain or break their ankle running down range in the dark. I've done this so many times over the years, that my ankles just randomly roll now. Sucks, particularly when it happens in front of a crowd and I go down and biff it.
"Crap, just keep shooting!" Love it!
good vid, I like it because you don't talk a lot, just simple concise information, straight forward easy to consider.....wow ¼ inch full penetration at 200 yrds with the green-tip out of a 16" barrel, I've got a few rounds of it, and 16" matches up with me..Great to know
Dude, You're a hell of a shot! 200 yds with no magnification is not an easy thing to do! A 1/7 twist barrel will bring a more consistent group. But still, great shooting!
300 with iron sights is beyond easy
I'll smack that target with Iron sights out to 400+ Meters. This is the military standard. The badge in my Pic is Expert for a reason.
YES! So happy your testing rifle rounds now! Would be interesting to see hard target (steel or block walls, ect.) penetration on say..steel cored 7.62X54R, or even non-steel cored stuff such as .308/7.62X51, and 7MM rem mag, and some other rounds. VERY anxious to see what else you have coming. As always, awesome job! Looking forward to more vids!
"your ad here" ROFL !!
you will enjoy a more energetic life with NADS
Thank you for your fine video. As an older adult I prefer the 4X optic, you young folks seem to like these "dots" thingamajigs. Originality the weapon was intended to have marginal stabilization to encourage yaw after shallow penetration. If you have concerns about your rifle and accuracy then I would suggest the MK262 load.
You're shooting pretty well, but your accuracy would be improved with the following pointers:
- Focus on the reticle, not the target. Reticle should be clear and in focus, target should be fuzzy.
- Breathing could be controlled a little better. Don't hold your breathe. Breathe normally, and fire at the natural respiratory pause at the end of the exhale.
- High firm grip on the pistol grip, and slow steady squeeze on the trigger.
Just trying to give pointers, not being a dick. I enjoy your videos!
SSgt E (7-time USMC expert rifle qualification)
I also chuckled when I read it, but what are your rifle qualifications? Shooting expert on the rifle in a military qualifier is something and harder than shooting off a bench at the range.
@ Nick Rodriguez, How often do YOU shoot 500 Yds ?
hope you get well soon!.
it's amazing how you can see the bullet travelling towards the target and the sonic boom around it!, even without super-slow mo gear, i would've thought that at that supersonic speed there would be no way to see a bullet
excellent video
The SS109/M855 is a round I have never learned to love in the 5.56 world.
I was around and wearing a uniform when it was introduced, and I was very much then ,and now ,in the M193 camp. After widespread failures to stop
Somolians, when fired from 14.5 inch barreled M4’s, it simply proved what I had suspected all along. And it didn’t really do much if any better on car bodies, laminated auto glass, bricks, etc. thankfully these days if one must have a 62gr, there are other bullets now
Including fmj.
1:7 does help to improve accuracy compared to 1:9 or higher.
flyboyfx Long thin projectiles require more spin to stabilize flight and the heavier that long thin projectile is the more spin it requires. That being said 1:7 will be the best bet for the heavier 62gr. while the 1:9 will be better suited to the lighter 55gr. bullets.
*****
I agree within 200 meters there isn't much of a difference unless you are firing 70+ gr rounds at distances beyond 200 meters.
***** , well said sir. Couldn't agree more.
This is the reason why I went 1:8
***** While the priciple I stated is absolutly correct and an imutable law of physics, after reading more on the subject, it is the weight that I was wrong on as it seems that 1:9 is the optimum twist rate for the 62gr. and is effective at stabilizing a 75gr. projectile of standard proportions out to 600 meters as long as velocity remains above 2,400fps. It seems the 1:7 twist was adopted by the military to adequately stabilize the M856 tracer ammo which is substantialy longer and therefore inherently less stable. In fact the 1:7 twist rate actualy causes a spin rate in 62gr. that is faster than optimum and will result in exagerating decreased accuracy in imperfect projectiles where the center of form is not the center of gravity such as is common in M855 green tip ammo.
Sorry about the leg TN...you always have great videos that tell an important story. I've learned a lot from you. Thanks so much!
They're accurate, just not the most effective anti personnel round
For anti-personal I agree. This round was designed for the M249 SAW back in the 80's and works well in that platform. It's a suppressive Fire round that was designed to shoot through car doors and CMU block walls. The Army and Marine Corps adopted it mostly for compatibility reasons so they could have one round for all platforms. They are nice to have around and serve a specific purpose, just anti-personal.
Crain yaw doesn't lead to fragmentation, it makes the bullet flatten long ways and curve making it possible to stay inside a body longer making more ouch.
Really they can penetrate steel but not good against a human body lol your wrong
Years ago I had a Remington XP100 bolt action pistol in .221 Fireball..The 40 grain soft points left that 10.75 inch barrel at about 2600 and blew through a .25" plate at 100 yards with maybe a little more authority than those in your test here. I,too was amazed. Traded that gun for a Mini14 and have often regretted it.
I never understood why they are called Penetrator rounds. They aren't armor piercing (AP), "round is intended for use against light material targets and personnel, but not vehicles". Its military designation is M855 and if you wanted a real AP round you'd get the M995 AP rounds with the black tip. Of course they are pretty useless against personnel since they will go right through as opposed to fragmenting and spiraling but hey, they'll go through most vehicles like butter and the occupants inside or through a brick wall and through the guy hiding behind said brick wall. So talking about the penetration of a round like the green tips is like talking about which spoons cut the best...kinda pointless when we have a knife. As I understand the ONLY reason people mistake these as some type of penetrating round and not a frag round as it is, is only because the description speaks of "the 62 grain projectile is constructed of a lead alloy core topped by a steel penetrator" but that steel penetrator is only designed to sprawl in the body causing extreme damage not pierce walls and steel blocks.
I am not sure what you mean by the word "sprawl" in your statement.
The steel penetrator has to do with the test for these rounds, it must also penetrate a 10 gauge SAE 1010 or 1020 steel test plate at 570 meters (623 yards). M193 cannot penetrate that steel at that distance.
The Wound Channel "sprawl" was used as an indication of how the round typically frags out or sprawls out and inflicts the most damage to the body as it spins and spirals inside a person. Depending on the round's yaw, I've seen some rounds go in and out and others frag and cause catastrophic damage. Originally, the M855 round was designed for use in the M249 SAW and not the M16. It wasn't till the M16A2 that it was widely used and accepted because the round would spiral too much making it ineffective except against squishy targets.
As for your test, you are wrong. There is NO test for the 5.56 round that requires ANY penetration at 570 meters unless you are talking about the M995 AP round. "Although it's not an armor-piercing round, the EPR can penetrate 3/8 inch-thick mild steel at distances approaching 400 meters (based on the range at which 50 percent of the rounds can pass through the barrier). The M855 only penetrates this material out to approximately 160 meters." They are talking about the new M855A1 round which is lead-less and the steel core is nearly (if not) twice the size as its earlier make. So, since you are dealing with lead, I would guess you are working with the M855 round which was ONLY designed to be effective at harder targets to 160 meters (524 feet). If you'd like I can link the military specs and the references so you can do your homework. "Additionally, the EPR can penetrate concrete masonry units at ranges out to 80 meters with the M16 and 40 meters with the M4. The M855 can't penetrate this type of battlefield barrier at any range." This means that the round you are shooting, CAN'T do that. "In addition to the above-mentioned performance improvements, the EPR is more accurate than the M855. Accuracy testing during production lot acceptance has shown that, on average, 95 percent of the rounds will hit within an 8 x 8-inch target at 600 meters. It also uses a flash-reduced propellant optimized for the M4's shorter barrel." What were you shooting at and at what distance? You seem to be trying to exceed the rounds intended purpose on every level. Its one thing to say, "I'm gonna go out and have fun and blast stuff with the green tips I just got" because you give no indication of suggesting you are doing anything scientific. However, when you suggest hitting a smaller, thicker steel plate then the round was intended at a greater distance then the round is intended for and commenting on it, you should probably do your homework a little better or people like me who DO know what the round's capabilities are and what they were intended for will speak up and call you on it. I have hit targets at 600+ yards with the older M855 rounds but partially due to luck and partially due to the odds with the number of rounds I had to put down range aiming at the same object and 1 finally got it. Compare that to the newer round where I can put rounds on target FAR more effectively then with the older M855 rounds. So, you can keep digging a hole with a spoon and talking about how "effective" it is, or do a little homework and getting the right round and speaking to its real capabilities.
TL;DR
The test I was referring to is from MIL-C-63989, it is literally the definition of what M855 is. So yes that is the test for it.
I never said it was "effective", I said that it penetrates steel at longer ranges than m193, and it does. Conversely at shorter ranges m193 is better at penetrating steel due to the increased velocity. I proved this in my Level III body armor testing.
Personally I don't care for m855 for accuracy reasons as well as terminal performance.
The Wound Channel Ah, the old MIL-C-63989 spec...yep, and as I understand, the round failed several parts of the spec including velocity since they required 3,000 fps and it normally averages out around 2700-2800. Then you have the difference from the m16 and m4 models and their velocity. Then you have the whole "indoor range" reference where they allowed for a 1.8" deviation at 200 yards indoor (or 6.8" at 600 yards). I heard several fun facts about the so called test where the round failed in several parts yet became the round of choice since it was the best of what was available. As with all government specs, it over promised and under delivered. There were countless ways in which the rounds failed from use to pressure testing to you name it. If you want to recreate a failed spec then by all means. Government specs are a joke in most cases as someone who knows nothing about the subject matter plagiarizes several spec's from several different sources and puts them together into one and calls it "their" spec. I see it all the time and it was perfectly obvious to me that is what happened with the MIL spec you cited. I work with the government all the time and have to explain that what they "specified" doesn't exist with all the requirements they deemed necessary. Now with the M855A1 they can meet all those specs, but not 30+ years ago. They were reaching and they realize it now. Lt. Col. Jeffrey K. Woods wrote the "Evolution of the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round" to explain the pitfalls they had with the first round and its shortcomings. So, you can keep "testing" all you want but you'll have the same failures and headaches they did in 1984.
As for your not caring for the M855 round for whatever reasons, that's great, but when you consider that its all the soldiers were issued, it makes no difference what anyone's opinions are since soldiers aren't allowed to provide their own munitions, body armor, or equipment without permission from much higher then they can get. Personally, most of the distances I saw it used were between 50-200 yards and it worked JUST FINE for that. If it didn't, there was a guy on a .50 cal who most certainly would get the point across and make it clear to the people on the other side of the car, wall, house, fortress. Personally I didn't like it either but we had lots of it and it didn't cost us anything to shoot it.
It's 3000 from a 20" barrel.
Sorry you don't like the spec but that's the definition of the ammo. Thanks.
I shoot exclusively M855 Federal/Lake City ammo through my Rock River Arms LAR. Like yours, mine has a 16" heavy barrel, 1:9 twist with a mid-length gas system and I use an EoTech XPS2-0 sight. I consistently group within 1 MOA at 100 yards though it grows a bit at 200 due to zero magnification and my elder eyes. At 200 yards I prefer to use a pistol-type, actual size human profile target. My last time out I got 8 hits out of 10 shots to the forehead so I'm satisfied with that. I bought the ammo, about 1,000 rounds of it, when I first bought the AR and I thought I was buying something better than the M193. Now that I've educated myself a bit more I wish I had opted for the M193 instead but my AR is dialed in and I'm quite familiar with the M855 now so I'll stick with it. Great videos! Keep them coming!
Basic 5.56 ammo will go thru that little 1/4" mild steel - ball ammo, FMJ, green tip or any other...
Now AR500, is rated up to 50 BMG at 200 yard minimum
But just about anything will shoot thru mild steal.
Sounds like another video.
pilotkisses where did you find the #'s for ..50bmg vs ar500?
I have never noticed .50bmg in the NIJ rating system
That shock wave trail is always trippy to watch.
I bought alot of pulled green tip bullets before Obama pulled the plug on them and as far as weight they are all over the place I couldn't find 2 in 100 that weighed the same some of them don't even have the cantilever on them but I got decent groups at 300 yards with them i was buy in them 90 bucks for 1000
oh so they were 80 per thousand a minute ago when you were lying about your PPR and claiming to get powder for 15 a pound. oh and this great ammo was made with 62 pull downs. dude your the biggest mall ninja joker i have ever seen. i bet even the mall ninjas think you are a poser. then you delete your comment to cover your tracks. pitiful. its your fantasy carry on as you please.
I deleted it because I'm done arguing about this, you win wolf is the best ammo in the world
i didn't say wolf was the best. i said crap component reloads put together by a ham fisted gorilla are no better and there is no way you loaded them for half the cost of wolf. you deleted it because you wanted the last word or last insult as it was.
i am sorry for calling bullshit on 160 per 1000 statement because i do have a bunch of pull down wc844 that was 11 per pound that i didnt think of. so sorry for that ,160-170 per thousand is doable and i said you were lying when you were not.
superoldcorndogs ok later
superoldcorndogs my ffl dealer and 8 other guys get together and order at least 40 pounds of powder and 20 to 30 thousand primers split the shipping and hazmat to get a good price on powder
Tn, I sure wish you were still producing these videos. Your work, even though getting somewhat dated, is still some of the best on You Tube.
If you want accuracy and consistency get a colt 6920 with a 1 and 7
you dont need a 1/7 to maintain accuracy out of a M855 cartridge. it shoots perfectly out of a 1/9
I'm not a fan of the 1-9's and will never own one. I have seen the effects on tracer rounds (their not very accurate ) MOST military will use a tracer every 4-5 rds
Just try a M855 tracer and watch how your 1-9 preforms compared to a 1-7
If you plan on shooting that specific load and 55 or 62 gr FOREVER your g2g
Aside from use in the Marine corp i have never used a 1/7 twist(tnew LC tracers are 62 grain) heavier bullets dont have the fragmentation and yawing effects that 70 gr and below bullets have particularly in a rifle with a 14.5 or less inch barrel. the only time i have ever relly liked a faster twist rate was in a RRA standard A2 with a 1/8. I was getting sub MOA at 100 yards with Sierra 74 grain BTHP and 24 grains of H-335. GREAT LOAD averaging about 2600 FPS at the muzzle. I use 70 grain bullets in my 1/9 all the time getting roughly 1 MOA at 100 yards on a good day with decent trigger pulls. Never had a problem with tumbling.
i ordered mine already, and i have a good feeling it was a good choice for my first rifle, nothing but praises!
Nice shooting at 200yrds. With low light at a 4" target👍. Great video .
I dragged a boar after cleaning it 25 feet from my cabin when I was 26. Buzzards clear out the rest usually by the time I wake up .. I did not make it to my door before a hairy man broken all the bones for Me to hear in 5 seconds. Left my gun upstairs still haunted after 20 years by it. It sounded like trees breaking . About ten huge cracks. Don't turn your back to the woods lol. True story.
AboxofMonsters what woods?
yo explain the story. A hairy man?
A box of bullshit
broken all the bones for Me to hear in 5 seconds. ?? you didn't make it to your door? were you still outside going to your cabin or already inside? broken all the bones?? not written in English.
Thank you so very much for the work you've done and are doing. This has got to be time intensive and you need to know how much I appreciate it. I've loaded my own now for over 45 years and you've changed the way I look at ammo. I used to run hot, light for weight bullets looking only at ft/lbs of energy as a guide. I've since revised that idea based on what I've seen in your testing. I just never thought the heavier, slower bullets had any place in self defense ammo, you've proved me wrong. Whenever I think about trying a new bullet or load, I first look to see if you've done any work on this.
Once again, thank you very much.....you're one person whose made a difference for me and my loading ideas.
He's correct, to a point. We qualify with targets up to 300 meters in the Army, but we will usually group and zero at around 75 meters. However, tight groups at 300 with a correctly sighted weapon is simple, especially with green tips.
1:7 is the prescribed twist for the M855 round. 1:9 is for the M193
My son had the same problem with a 1:9 Ruger SR556, and he was Top Shooter in Boot. The weapon was brand new then. but I have since found the data for recommended twists. Good Vid!
seeing the 885 slow motion in mid air was freaking awesome!
1 turn in 9 inches is the AR standard. it was designed to just barely stabilize the 55 grain bullets usually loaded in the 5.56 case, to make them tumble in the target. This detracts from accuracy, and doesn't allow heavier bullets. The faster 1 in 7 inch twist was to stabilize the, then new, SS109 ammo with the 63 grain bullet. The 1 in 8 was a compromise between the two.
2:01 Yessir, I'm sure you have made some similar shots with a 1:8 or 1:7 barrel, I get really good accuracy with PMC XM855 X-Tac ammo. My groups are usually right around MOA at 100 and 200 yards. I'm planning on heading to a longer range in the near future to see how I do out at 300 to 1000 yards. My setup is a 16" Scout style barrel with 223 Wylde chambering, 1:8 twist, mil-spec trigger, Aero Precision M4A1 Enhanced upper and free float hand guard with muzzle brake.
At the time you made this video the 1:9 barrels were the go to for the AR platform unless you wanted to drop serious money on a 1:7 from what I remember.
Great video, glad you demo'd the punching power on unhardened steel rather than shooting AR500 body plates expecting it to punch through.
again, i underestimated the 5.56. Never again.
Great video, thanks for making it! I love your crutch holster. I also concur that it would be really neat to see the effects on a soft target on the other side of the 1/4" steel. Here's wishing you a speedy recovery.
TN, hope that ankle gets better soon. Thanks for another great video. Been about 2 weeks since I've been to the range/Pitt and your videos are helping me through.
Take care.
I love the honesty i the video. The Jeep is okay, but his ankle is not.
Shooting at my Big Dawg steel targets with green tip, target was at about 150~200 yards and one of our shots hit the stand, blew a hole through it like a laser beam. But the target didn't take any damage at all.
Hope you heal up quickly, ankle injuries suck.
When doing a penetration study, it would be interesting to see this round compared to standard 55gr FMJ. I can see that this penetrates the steel, but I haven't a clue what "standard" ammo would do. Rest easy on the foot.
By the way I stop my day for a few minutes to see your vids. I enjoy them and doubt I will ever grow tired of them.
Combat Accuracy With M855 And A 1/9 Twist! I'll Take It! Target Neutralized! Great Timeless Video! It Never Get's Old! Your Audience Loves Your Video's! Hopefully You'll Return Someday Soon!
Although shooting in the dark is not recommended I think your video was awesome. I have tons of this ammo & have been reloading it after I shoot it. I think Ill keep this & shoot my reloads! Loved the Video & thanks for the info! Hope you get an ad on that foot!
I'm curious: When you guys load your own ammo, what is your bullet of choice?
Your persistence to get this video (demonstration),reminds me of a Hotwheels, MailJeep, for the USPS,that read....wether rain,sleet,or snow dot dot dot.Ur a trooper!
Thank you. I am always happy to share anything I have learned in 25 years of gunsmithing. I forgot to mention that the 1:7 twist was for the then new M16 A2 variant, the 1:8 has never seen official adoption in any model, that I know of. The twist issue is also complicated by the fact that the stability of the bullet does not depend upon the twist rate in the barrel, but by the RPM of the bullet, which means its velocity is a factor as well. And that means barrel length and loading count also.
i like the sound of that soft target experiment.
I stepped in "BEEP" in the yard today. Sorry about your ankle,but man,is that dedication to finish that night. Great vid,we appreciate what you do. Get well soon.
Just want to say thanks for testing 5.56 first before the other rifle calibers you have planned.
So glad you did this. My AR has a 16 inch barrel, and I just purchased some of this ammo. Great video, sorry about the ankle. Cheers.
Hope you heal well,sir. Thanks again for doing what you do.
Love what you did with the spotting scope view. Also, don't let David give you a hard time about the ankle. ;)
Hey Buddy I sure miss your MOST EXCELLENT videos and your GREAT SENSE of HUMOR! I sure hope that all is well in your new job; PLEASE COME BACK TO UA-cam!
Your friend in the Caribbean,
Doc DAVE
Bad luck on the ankle, I hope you're on your feet soon and not in too much pain. Great ep, keep em coming.
Sorry about your ankle. You are a trooper. Thanks for the video.
Get better and I respect that you completed filming the video after being hurt. I wish you the best of luck rehabing the leg.
tnoutdoors9 sacrifices his physical well-being for our edification and entertainment. Bravolingus, dude! Big laffs on your concealed carry plan too!
awesome video ! I love the M855 ammo, I knew it would penetrate at 100 yds but did not know it would still penetrate 1/4 at 200 yds.
hope your ankle gets better soon, I have rolled my ankle twice and man that really sucks for a long time
I find the "Green tip" clashes with most of my duty gear.I know ya cant tell with them being in the mag and all...but I know,and it drives me crazy.Good job on another excellent video!
Get better soon, we appreciate your dedication to the craft.
The steel core was not set into the 62 grain bullets for penatrating steel. The 55 grain will penetrate 1/8 in rolled steel at 400 yards (not done in meters in the 1960s).
That was the standard the US Army gave to the competitors tasked with building a new battle rifle. It had to be selective fire (have semi and fully automatic capabilities), have a detachable magazine with at least 20 rounds, be accurate for average shooters to 300 yards, easy to dissembled and reassemble, easy to maintain, easy to learn to put into battery, be lighter than the M14 and the rounds must penatrate rolled steel at 400 yards.
The Army did consider making the M855 ball ammunition armor piercing as they needed to change the bullets in our battle rifle in the 1990s when they switched to the M16A2 and decided that after a hundred years or so of millions and millions of lead and lead core rounds being fired at ranges on posts all over the United States that there was going to be a problem with lead in the water supply. They made AP rounds with a tungsten core because tungsten is a very hard yet very heat conductive metal that did work rather well. However, tungsten is expensive compared to soft steel and they also didnt want to have every soldier shooting AP rounds as they do not expand or deform or roll inside the human body. That's why there is a steel core in the M855 ball ammunition.
Can't believe you were able to hit that without magnification at 200 yards. That is great, you must have superb vision or something because that target looked like it wasn't even there until you zoomed the camera in. Good job! I love the EOTech 516 after seeing your reviews, maybe I'll be lucky enough to get one soon
TN your dedication to getting the video done is epic!!!
Hope the leg heals quickly!!
Would love to see the soft target test after passing through the metal.
Your ammo videos are a must see for me before I spend money on ammo.
Man ankle injuries suck. I had a sports related one that I re-injured multiple times. Take your time and hopefully you will be good as new soon enough.
Awesome test
My first thought was, I would never be happy with that accuracy but I completely disregarded the NO magnification. So without the magnification I would be pretty darn satisfied with your grouping so very well done
I’m happy to see your test with the green tip. I have a good deal of this ammo and have shit some but have never done a penetration test like this. It seems to prove what my local gun shop workers are telling me
Thank you for your testing
Hope your ankle gets back to 100%
I like long range videos where you can see the projectiles going down range.
Yup, you're right on. The 5.56 on the barrel means that you have the chamber specs for the 5.56mm, which will shoot the .223 Remington with no problems. the other way (shooting 5.56 in .223 chambers) CAN cause problems, but usually not. The issue is usually the leade, or freebore, not the twist rate. Too tight a twist rate usually has no effect at all, not enough twist will cause the bullet to tumble, loosing all accuracy, at least at decent ranges. I think your 1:8 should shoot most any load.
Awesome videos--thanks
Here is something else that may help. Ideal twist rate is based on bullet length, not weight. True, most heavier bullets are longer, but not always. This is based on the Greenhill theory. Other factors can also effect accuracy. One that is often overlooked is the ogive of the bullet in relation to the rifling. Two bullets of the exact same weight with the exact same velocity can shoot differently based on the amount of jump from the case to the rifling.