LIST OF OTHER WORTHY CONTENDORS - ► NI SUPER 8 ► ROLAND ZENOLOGY ► SYNTH1 ► U-HE DIVA ► BEHRINGER DEEPMIND ► ARTURIA JUN-6 V ► ROLAND JUPITER XM ► TAL NOISEMAKER ► ROLAND MC-101 ► ROLAND MC-707 ► SOFTUBE MODEL 84
Synth1 was probably the first VST I found when I started working with a DAW. My first demos were almost exclusively Synth1 and I totally forgot about it, very simple but powerful tool!
Same! Ive found some organ sounds that the TAL can’t quite get, but its so close for pads, no noisy chorus and way more convenient. But then the TAL is a 60 not 106. I really think now I wouldn’t by a new keyboard because the plugins are so close and so flexible. Sure you need a laptop…. But you can pull up and layer nearly any sound from any synth, and add fx plugins. Having said that, cant see me selling the 106.
Cracking Vid Mush and I was truly honoured to have a cameo 🙏🏻 It really is fascinating seeing the the depth and variety of comments surrounding “Juno” “Analogue/Digital” etc 🤯
hi jack, was fascinating and really enjoyable to see your take on it, thanks a lot mate. still have my juno-6 in the uk, been in the box in a wardrobe since 1989... :D
5:03 The Roland Cloud Juno 106 does not use Zencore. Instead it uses the (arguably better) ACB engine. They use the ACB tech on the Roland Cloud plugin, Ju-06, Ju-06A, and the System-8 Juno plug-out. They have a separate ZenCore plugin that has a Juno 106 emulation - but its different than the ACB "Legendary" series Roland Cloud Juno 106.
you're right, thanks! tbf though i can't hear any difference between the two model types! but on the hardware , ACB offered mediocre polyphony so i for one are glad that roland replaced it.
Roland could have easily put 2 ACB boards in a full size keyboard if they wanted to keep things standalone...but they want folks to use Zencore so as to be tempted to sign up to $$$ Cloud licenses $$$
@@sarahhey8654 There's not much space left in them actually. And they certainly couldn't do it to the Xm. Fwiw, using Zen is free & models included in the units, so they're making nothing extra.
If I may, the Roland Juno-106 you show on screen is the ACB version (Aira/System-8) not the Zencore/ModelExpansion version tou find on the Jupiter-X/Fantom/Juno-X. Same as the XV-5080 plugin you show, this is not the same as the XV bank set Zenology/Zencore do have. Not sure what are the differences between these two though, I don't know the XV5080 well enough to compare the engines.
hi godz, yeah you're correct! i should perhaps have demoed zenology with the juno and xv model which would get you the identical sounds. to my ears they sound the same , and on the PC there are no poly limitations.
@@WoodyPianoShack yeah agreed, even on hardware I never managed to hear a clear difference between my System-8 and the qu’encore equivalent. The only difference were due to slight differences in parameters
The XV-5080 plugin has reverb & chorus effect stages like the original, unlike Zenology, so patches sound more complete. ZenCore has slightly different patch structures than the XP/JV/XV plugins & hardware. There is is no Boost parameter in ZenCore, for instance.
Where’s the ministry of truth when we need them? Zencore and the ACB models are not the same. Zencore is static and mostly a preset machine. ACB is a full on digital cloning. In my opinion the system 8 and ACB stuff sounds much more alive
Nice seeing you doing synth vids again :-) I think we are simply spoilt for choice from Roland at the moment. As a hardcore Roland Cloud consumer I still have the Juno-X on my wish list despite currently using the Jupiter Xm as my go to creativity tool. Also nice to see the underrated JDxi getting a mention. Probably should bring mine back from storage and give it a go again. As you say the sequencer is great on it. But with the latest system update for the Xs the sequencer is getting better on the new range too :-)
Hi Woody. I like and own the Arturia version of Juno which I like. I just received my Roland Juno-X Keyboard but not yet home to try it. I am so looking forward to getting to try it and see how much difference there is.
I’d love to see a Juno X vs Jupiter X/Xm shootout. I’ve an Xm and kinda lost the desire for a Fantom 06 or Juno X even considering selling my Juno DS61
Thank you for mentioning the PCM workstation sounds, that's something that so many people strangely don't seem to care about. It's all that really matters to me, and I don't get excited by analog synth sounds that can be easily replicated by tons of cheap or free VSTs lol
i agree, including the xv is a brilliant decision, not only to cover the bread and butter studio and live sound palette, but also for layering some icing and sparkle to the juno sounds.
In the Juno-X's case, the PCM workstation sounds are just an extra, the focus is the Juno-106/60 emulation, and the front panel is geared towards that. Fantom, Jupiter-X, and Fantom-0 are better suited to those wanting to work with the PCM sounds. The Juno-X appears to be less bulky than the Jupiter, at least.
The Juno-X comes at a high premium for that layout and build quality in a digital synth. It does have the ability to load Zen-Core sounds, and I'm not sure if it's as good as the Fantom 0 or not for Zen-Core sounds, or if it includes any sample memory. I'm also curious of the "X" part of the Juno offers any significant additional features, or is essentially the same as the Zen-Core Juno 106. If so, Roland may offer it as a VST in the future anyway. The soft synths options are great for people that can live without the original control layout. I'm not sure if their Boutique series can map MIDI CC controls, but using one of them would get a similar layout with smaller controls for about $400 and bypass the very limited 4 note polyphony using a soft synth. The Cherry Audio clone you mentioned goes one step further than any of the clones, and possibly offers a significant feature I'm not sure the Juno-X can do. Sysex import of the original patches from sound collections. You can load them right into their VST. I'm not sure if you can do that on the Juno-X or Roland's own Juno 106 VST. The TAL clone is offered also for iPad for just $11.99 Throw an iPad Mini in your MODX6 gig bag, and the MODX is class compliant device so it works really well with the MODX and will make use of the MODX audio interface with a single cable to an iPad. The iPad Mini is small enough it should fit on top of your MODX6 without to drag a stand. This would be one of the cheapest and most portable options. The new Fantom 0 by the way is not class compliant, so it doesn't integrate nearly as well with an iPad. Roland's own Juno 106 VST is also offered for sale for about $150, so it's not just for rental, but you can get it either way. Roland authentic, and a tiny fraction the cost of a Juno-X. While not a Juno, there is a very good free VST clone of the Roland JX-8P called the PG8X. It's even sysex compatible so you can import original sound banks, and Espen Kraft says it's more authentic than Roland's own JX-8P VST. There are comparison videos of the Juno vs the JX-8P you can watch online.
The best hardware alternative is the Behringer Deepmind IMO, best software TAL UNO-LX. I've owned the TAL for a while, its spookily like my old Juno 106!
What is the name of the song @7:35...? I really love the song but heck it's been a long time. If anyone know pls let me know 'cause I simply can't find the track after hours of searching.
My first synth was a Juno 106 and it served me VERY well. I’ve upgraded my computer to a 13th generation i9 and all NV.2 hard drives and gobs of ram making the decision to go mostly VST. The computer upgrade was $852, far less than one high quality hardware synth and it will serve me to do ALL my tasks including synths, sampling, mixing, producing, et all. I have 3 hardware synths which I enjoy, but frankly the VST’s these days are beyond spectacular. I watch some of these people with their $10-20K vintage synths and I think of what I can do with my $59 Cherry Audio GX-80 and $99 Reveal Spire and it seems illogical to go the hardware route anymore. I understand the passion and allure, but the first time one of those vintage synths had a major problem with the keybed or logic board I would be kicking myself and end up spending time and money on repairs and NOT creating music. And let’s all be honest here, besides the Jupiter 8, Moog, most of these vintage synths do not sound impressive without effects and are extremely limited in their programmatic capabilities. If I do break down and get another synth, it would be the Deepmind 12.
Thanks very much for these wonderful suggestions Woody! This also gave me the idea to start designing these sounds on my Korg. A cheaper alternative, I admit. Yet there’'s also the joy of creating ones own sounds!
I go to GC and check out what's new. Sometimes I don't gel with a synth even if it sounds good. Sometimes it's like a spiritual experience and I can't break away from it. My 1st synth was a new Juno 60 back in the 80's so I have high hopes for this. The best thing about the Juno 60 was the chorus and I dont hear alot of cheaper emulations get it right.
1400-1600 realistically would be the sweet spot, in line with the Xm, but I think that’s overpriced too. Edit: Also, why not a Juno Xm? Why is the Juno in the ballpark of the Jupiter? They had to stuff in enough junk to justify it.
I have a Juno DS 88, integra 7. with the Auturia MKII 88 controller. If someone wanted to, pick up a JV 1080 (used) or XV5050 (used). I prefer hardware over software. Thanks for your info, you always bring a lot to the table and do it very well.🎼🎵🎶🎹🎧😀
it uses a different sound engine, but i'm sure it will cover those bases quite well! and of course, it has a ton of other useful features too, great value board overall i think!
I have one (DS 61 key) The sounds are pretty good, and Roland is generous with the expansion packs. I personally don’t like the feel of the keybed, though. Edit: I should also add that I like the control layout on the DS panel. I wonder if I can mod the keybed with a felt bumper under the keys? They hurt my clumsy hands after about 15 minutes in a way that my new Nautilus does not, which is part of the reason I got another synth. (actually, I like the key feel better on my cheap, noisy, Casio arranger than the Juno DS, but the Casio is really only useful as a MIDI controller)
I have a Juno DS88 and it gets a lot of use. I seriously doubt I will ever get rid of it either. I have had zero issues with it. It has some really good Roland sounds from the past. The DS series is PCM synth so there really isn't a sound engine per say, it is all sample based. The user memory space for samples is a bit limited, but still very versatile in what it can do. It can make very complex sounds. There are a few really good examples of that in the free expansions. Just keep in mind that you can only have one expansion in it at a time due to memory limitations. I personally do not like the keyboards in the DS61-76. That is usually a personal preference anyway thou. The synth action in a DS is very different from other Juno's. Others will and have mentioned that, a lot.
@@shvrdavid swapping expansion packs is a bit of a nuisance as well. I have to Google search for the process when I do it, then there is a 6 minute reboot process (vs the usual 20 second or so boot up). While the sample based engine is somewhat limited, the filter and envelope adjustments are readily accessible. Also “super layer” is a quick way to set up a unison/detune effect, with only a shallow menu dive to refine the oscillator count and detune amounts on each.
Question, Does anyone know if it’s possible to mark presets as favorites? With over 4000 presets I can’t scroll through 1000’s of options to find the one I loved before I turned it off. Thank you!
A few potential caveats from what I’ve watched: 1.) they said in the Anderton’s video that the “Juno-X” engine, which is the more modern take on the Juno-60 and Juno-106, is “exclusive to the hardware” of the X. I would check Roland Cloud to see if they’ve made that model expansion available. 2.) The Fantom-08 can indeed load the same Juno-60 and -106 model expansions, but they are not included, and lifetime keys for each cost $150. So that would be an additional cost. 3.) The Fantom-0 series keyboards only have 256MB of non-expandable storage to load expansion sounds, so you may be limited to the number of model expansions you can have loaded at once.
JUNO XS? actually I think you'll find the JUNO model expansion is exclusive to the Juno-X. But the regular zencore synth sounds on the fantom nail the JUNO sound anyway so you'll basically get a similar sound palette, plus a lot more on the 08.
Well you can of course get very close to the sounds on other Roland hardware but no the new Juno has exclusive modules. I’ll stick to my Xm for now and the Roland Cloud for everything else.
@@synthverkstad2093 I'll continue sticking to my older keyboards as they nail the sound, too, I think System-8 is the best choice for really good emulation in hardware.
I treated myself to a jd-xi at Christmas mainly for it being a really nifty groove box for accompnymant and was more pleased as well as surprised that it featured juno presets. With the voices all being editable it can't be beat as a budget option for the home hardware only studio. Plus you can midi full size key controller. It's a very versatile synth but could do with a sturdier build quality.
@@WoodyPianoShack also the the Waldorf blofeld is great at emulating the Juno sounds check on Don Solaris's video where he designs a few Juno Sixty patches and compares to a real Juno Sixty. You have to listen extremely carefully to hear the difference.
Thanks Woody for covering the alternatives to the Roland Juno X. In my opinion the Juno X seems too expensive considering it's basically zencore. Oh and thank you for playing a few bars of Souvenir by OMD.
you're welcome. the price is an interesting topic of debate for sure. it would be useful to compare price of other similarly capable digital synths, nord lead, hydrasynth, umm. maybe there are others... it might not stack up as badly as you think.
Oh, wow, "Souvenir" by OMD at 7:35!! I love that song!!! Thanks for such a wonderful review. I have the Arturia's Jun 6 V, but am super interested in the Cherry Audio plugin after this review. There is a free VST plugin out there called Surge XT, and it's very good. It may be able to do some Juno-esque stuff, as well, and it's hard to beat free of charge :)
@@WoodyPianoShack Your "dodgy" rendition is light years better than my own playing :). I've been on a mission for the last 2 years to actually get better at actually playing the keyboards. There's nothing more frustrating than when you realize that you have a certain innate songwriting and arranging talent, where you can come up with all these musical ideas and improvise in very cool & creative ways, yet your playing and music theory knowledge is so far behind it that you can't even repeat what you just previously played. It made me quit music for many years and immerse into programming and chess instead, but no more!
5:22 Those who don't like subscriptions can also buy a lifetime key for the Roland Cloud Juno-106 for 149 USD. Juno-60, Jupiter-8 and most of their synths are also 149USD a piece. The XV-5080 is 129USD and they also have a separate Juno-60 Chorus effect vst for 99USD.
@@epicon6 softube a knockoff company?? Their products are top notch engineering and they also have a lot of licensed vsts but more for mixing and mastering. If Roland is not able to produce the best quality someone else has to do it.
@@mudi2000a I will specify then that i don't support unofficial instrument vst clones or hardware clones. I do support Softube but just not their knockoff instruments. And i completely boycot Arturia and Behringer who make a large part of theit income out of cloning other people's instruments.
This is the video we needed, too many fake/paid reviews saying it sounds like it’s worth the 2000, when there’s a lot of better options, Roland didn’t give the fans what they asked for
i've never tried any other small form factor alternatives, apart from jd-xi, if you can handle those mini-keys. but I think you might be onto a winner with the DM-D!
As you said: Of course you can get cheap good software synths. but just software. and you need a computer/laptop with DAW and a MIDI master keyboard. Is that really cheaper than having the hardware that you can take with you almost anywhere? Especially if you don't want to take a PC/Mac with you. I personally think the Juno-X is great because of its fullsize keyboard. But yeah, the xi is a great alternative.
for gigging, i wouldn't like to use any of these software solutions, but for studio or home use, with a good midi keyboard controller, they might be a good alternative for many musicians and producers.
My main man Woody keeping it real in the suit jacket. TAL-UNO has never failed me. I don't see the Juno X being a bit hit as the Jupiter X makes it redundant
@@WoodyPianoShack The trial version is fully-functioning (although software iLok) and seeing as you know your way around them anyway, you'll know if you like it or not within minutes, I'd imagine
I'll second that. The Model 84 sounds absolutely fantastic. Matt Johnson from Jamiroquai, who has a great UA-cam channel with lots of synth related stuff, has made a sound pack for the Model 84 I believe. The sounds, even the hard to nail chorus, are so darn close to an original Juno. And the UI looks stunning.
guess so. always been curious aboutthis , yes it's a single oscillator synth, but with 3 waveforms you can mix together. normally an oscillator only has a single waveform... so is the juno something in between single and multi?
@@WoodyPianoShack Adding multiple waveforms from the same oscillator will increase volume level (if not otherwise compensated) and add/emphasize/deemphasize certain harmonics depending on the waveforms selected and their phase relationships. In the case of the Juno, I believe it's mostly the chorus effect that thickens it up, quite nicely, and certainly more harmonics to filter is also a benefit.
All of your points are well known. I would say that it's possible to agree to them and still provide some reasons to own the real thing: 1. It becomes something you can turn to and focus on, and if it's very direct. The Juno-106 and Juno-X have this. This is the only way that you will reach all it can do with sound. Even the best controllers can't give this direct intimacy, because even after the tedious setup, you will hunt for which knob was it again. 2. Juno-106 has a deep performance controls section, which all keyboard controllers and the Juno-X lacks. The Juno-106 is a perfect performance controller for synth solos. 3. Some hardware synthesizers have characteristics that emulation can get close to, but never reach. The usual reason for wanting the real thing are the interesting interactions between filter and oscillators, with resonance, noise and distortion. Two more interactions are between this and key follow behavior and the performance section. 4. Even in modern synths and emulation, bloat introduces a delay when switching sounds. For sound carpets that you can modulate over á la the JD-XA, the foot switch can step to the next sound in the bank. This means that with the right signal generator pedal, you can turn an entire bank of sound into a sequence of sounds or arpeggiator.
@@WoodyPianoShack I would only buy it if they will correct the low level audio output. The Boutique version had that to avoid distortion when reaching around zero dB while using all 16 notes of polyphony. It was necessary because of the USB audio feature (in which the audio signal remains completely digital). People say that a real D-50/-550 has about 10 dB more output level. They should make it a switchable option (on/off) for those who only use the analog outputs.
What about the option of, all of the above? lol. I have all of them, and love them all, but I still have the Juno X on order, ordered it within hours of the release!
I just love the way some of those sounds climb into your ears with the intention of making themselves at home there. I may go for a software emulation if I can persuade my NI keyboard to emulate some of the knobs and settings. Great stuff. For messing about on trains and on holiday, I thought about an SH-01. Have you handled one of these?
only the software sh01! i'm intending to map up the knobs on my NI controller as well in komplete kontrol, that might give good results for the hands on controls.
A surprising number of guys with such negative vibes making dismissing disrespectful comments. Woody's community is lovely friendly and positive. I wonder where those other guys have come from?
I don't know what Roland was thinking, when the concept of the Juno-X was being developed(as it's just a hoard of vst's in a box with no recording & sampling....& costs $500 more than the Fantom 06!??)
it's the aluminium case and all those sliders that bump up the cost I guess. i do wish they had added a simple 5-track sequencer to the X, that's my only complaint really.
Last year I worked a while with the free TAL one. I was surprised how versatile a range of sounds you can make with it, sound-design-wise (= not just clicking presets). Seeing you play from the start of this video I suddenly thought: can't you make a video showing which sliders and knobs to assign to this TAL version (or another one) in the most practical way, when you have, say only, eight knobs and eight sliders (I think I remember there are about 40 knobs and sliders on the VST, so you have to make a choice, and how to arrange them on you MIDI-controller?). And then maybe recreate some of the iconic sounds in this video, including why they sound like that. I was especially surprised by the OMD-sound.
that's a really great question, and something I have been thinking about too, sadly my kross ony has 2 knobs so cutoff and reso was quite obvious, but yeah, it's an interesting topic, once i figure out what's most important for me. and perhaps it's different for each player..
@@WoodyPianoShack Because of limited deskspace I generally use a LKP25 (despite having a.o. a Roland A300) and considered buying a Korg NanoKontrol2 for this purpose (together a more flexible combination).
I've found the dco 106, and the roland cloud's res filter a little too 'hot', compared to a hardware model, but overall...they come pretty close. My favourite is still tht tal vst....i think it's?the closest to my hardware
Sorry Woody, I skipped through the video, as software can not replace hardware. You don't count a good D-A converter in the price. Not to mention a PC, which can crash, or Mac (expensive). I only see one hardware alternative, but you might as well have mentioned the Behringer Deepmind or the Dreadbox Nymphes. Both gives you a Juno-esk sound. But what about the Jupiter-X as an alternative? In The Netherlands it's only € 150,- more expensive (I bought mine for € 2.149,- and the pre-order for the Juno-X is € 1.999,-). Sure, you don't get the Juno work-flow. Or what about a Jupiter-Xm? Even cheaper, but with all the capabilities! Or a MC-707, with a master keyboard.
all good gert, thanks for the comment. :) i tend to assume most musicians producers already have pc and interface... tbh, i completely overlooked the Xm even though I have demoed one on the channel :o but on reflection, it's not cheap either, and represents pretty poor value for money compared to the juno-x (debateable). the MCs are a great shout though, even though they lack the juno model expansion, the zencore synth engine gets you in the ballpark. I agree, the Jupiter-X is a competitor, as are the fantoms if we ignore the "cheap alternative! that was the point of my video. i'm happy that this video has stimulated some food for thought, thanks again!
Actually, in this case with the Juno X, it is software. It’s the exact same ABM modelling as the zencore cloud software. Obviously, you don’t get the hardware controls but sound wise it’s the same. By far the best and most accurate Juno emulations are the actual standalone Roland cloud ACB versions or the Softube model 84. The zencore version in the Juno and Jupiter X are NOT the ACB versions as shown here by woody.
I have DCO-106, Roland Cloud Juno-60 & 106, but none of them give me direct hands-on control and instant tone shaping that the JUNO-X offers. Yes, it's expensive, but I'll get one.
I really wanted to want the Juno X even tho I already have the Juno DS61……. 3 different Juno “Engines” naaaaaaa and lots of overlap with my Jupiter Xm Can’t wait to see what Yamaha has coming to replace the MODX line
Do check out the amazing plugins by TAL, they're criminally underpriced ! And allegedly sound just like the original ! The creator put up demos comparing his plugins and his hardware Juno-60, Jupiter-8 and SH-101 so you can see how identical they are
Well, the first three options are apps and only produce Juno sounds. Juno-X is capable of a lot more than that, so the comparison is not fair. And let’s remember that an app need a hardware, sound card, cables etc in order to run. No surprise they’re cheaper than hardware most of the times.
That wasn't the point of this video. The title is cheap alternatives, not cheap equivalents. This was for people who caught the attention of the Juno-X but are unaware of cheaper alternatives for a Juno/Juno type sound.
hi william, yeah i take your point, i tend to assume , wrongly or rightly, that most of the people watching this video already have a pc, audio interface and some kind of keyboard with midi out. for making music in the studio, the apps are quite viable alternatives, to the listener of the finished tracks, they will never know if you used the hardware or softwrae juno.
I think if one wants to go all in with Roland Zencore, the Fantom 0 series is the better choice for the money. Myself, I have gone the poor man's route with a Juno DS and sample the sounds I want from Zencore or anything else for that matter😁🎶🎹 Play On Dudes!
@@davidlloyd9598 Well... yeah. True lol. But... I do also have an Xm, and while it was cheaper as I bought it 2nd hand, I love it. So between the 3, I have 6 synths that cover so much ground. Layering up 4 synths on this is so much fun, I wish I had bought this now tbh. But I'll have to stick with the Xm for now.
Could you , perhaps consider making a , small doc, about your gear, mac / pc, daw , audio interface, etc…. just curious. Ps. i did change my avatar / picture, i was the one, that was making apri’s fools with the wavestation.
You forgot the cheapest hardware solution. A Roland boutique, either the current one, or a used first generation, combined with your midi controller of choice.
@@WoodyPianoShack You could buy two and chain them for 8-note poly - the Boutiques are set up for that. But that's about £660 for the new ones, and then a decent 61 key controller bumps the cost up. If I wanted to gig with a 106, I'd be looking for a good all-in-one hardware solution, not bodging together some Boutiques (I do have a JU-06) and a controller with a bunch of extra spaghetti tying it all together.
Thanks for this. The Roland Cloud has gotten a lot of criticism as you need to keep paying every month, or you lose your access. If you have songs that use particular VST plugins, than they won't work anymore, if your subscription ever lapses. You also need to keep your music PC connected to the Internet, which some people (like me) don't do for security and latency reasons. Finally, the Roland plugins are very accurate in replicating the originals, but they are very CPU hungry and the interfaces don't scale well on monitors. I can definitely recommend TAL-U-NO-LX. It's worth mentioning that they also have an iPad app version, which is even cheaper than the PC version and sounds just as good. If you're an iPad musician, this is great. Finally, you should consider the Behrenger DeepMind 6, which is based closely on the Juno (it's a clone in everything but name) and is a genuine analog hardware alternative--at a very reasonable price.
thanks for the suggests, yeah TAL is on my backlog of video topics, as is the DM6, which might be a good candidate for inclusion in dawless jammin setup.
well, if i understand correctly the JUP doesn't have the JUNO model, but has the JUPITER model, and better keyboard. costs more too. one is a homage to the jupiter, the other to the juno. good to have choice.
Yeah but it's just a different model expansion, I guess Roland can stick to their guns and keep that locked to each hardware product.. otherwise it is all about what furniture you want :)
If I were in the market for one of these (I’m currently not), I think I would spend the extra for the Jupiter. From what people in other comments are saying, it’s only about 5 or 10 percent more.
The only point I see in hardware synths like the Juno-X these days is their full control panel, but I love sound design. The majority of players would probably hardly use the knobs anyways. Software is the way to go, also saves a lot on raw materials.
@@WoodyPianoShack I hear you but I only play two-handed on the piano (because it lacks knobs to twiddle) so voice count is only occasionally a problem for me e.g. long envelope decays/releases.
I see that people are minimizing the Juno-X in the comments, calling it a plugin in a box but that is minimizing it unfairly. It gets you a solid build that will last, a nice keyboard (that boxes don't have), a built-in drum machine function to program grooves to play along to, a mic preamp on the back that allows you to have a physical vocoder, it offers full hands-on control of all the parameters, and it allows people to play live or gig without needing to rely on a computer. There's no latency when playing with it either so you don't have to set buffer sizes like in a computer. Maybe that's not what people want to spend their money on and that's fine, but what I just mentioned is a lot more than just a "plugin in a box."
Thanks for the info about the Roland Cloud Woody. I admit that I wasn't aware of it before now but I signed up for a free account and downloaded the Zenology Lite plug-in (also free) that comes with some really good pre-set sounds to play around with. 🙂
Roland JD-Xi sounds incredibly good, but it has its own signature sound which is unique to JD-Xi and is not like anything else. The JD-Xi is not for emulating Juno, especially because the JD-Xi has no chorus (phaser and flanger instead). Also the JD-Xi has much weaker bass than Juno.
JD-Xi gets its synth tones and engine from Jupiter-50, drum engine is the usual JV1080-ish affair for Roland keyboards, but with some quite nice samples
xi has the supernatural synths as found in the FA, if I'm not mistaken, and they can pull of the JUNO pretty good, but you're right, the 60 chorus is not there, but throw in any stereo chorus and you're close.
@@WoodyPianoShack FA also gets its sounds from the Jupiter-50, drum engine is just like the JD-Xi's but with more and better samples, making it even more versatile
yeah, it's the same as cloud zenology, which imho is the most underrated and best bargain in the synth industry, fantom, jupiter-x and juno-x for just a few bucks a month.
@@WoodyPianoShack Did you know that for the price of the new Roland Juno X its 12 years of the Roland Cloud? who knew.....definitely a waste of money investing in the Roland Jupiter-X and the Roland Juno X. I don't know what Roland is doing at this point they're all over the place.
If you guys everthink of buying a hardware just get the new Roland Fantom-0 and it has the Zencore engine in it so you can download the Juno 106 expansion and you're all good...you've got a Juno 106 cheaper than have this fake Roland Juno X
without those lovely front panel controls though, isn't the 0 rather crippled in the controls dept? are you sure that the 106 expansion is available for the fantom? even if not, you can still get juno sounds from the zencore engine, it's not a difficult synth to approximate.
Ehhh? Did all of you miss that the JUNO-X is a full ZEN-Core engine, it's basically a slightly less priced (still way too high price though) Jupiter X, but with a really ugly outfit...
A real hardware synth is a great thing, no driver problems, no upgrades and still works when your computer's OS is no longer supported. But the new Juno X seems like a cash grab ...why would I spend 2000 when you just buy a VST in a box?
Because Juno-X hardware sounds different HQ and with huge big new features and much more polyphony... You can figure out only when You compare both: hardware vs. boutique or Zenology etc...
Not pleased with Roland. The new synths are expensive and hobbled from a storage perspective (Fantom 0, 256mb in 2022? Really?). Plus they are going down the endless $$$$ DLC path, while providing lackluster system updates and a strong history of product abandonment.
Thanks, Woody! Nice alternatives!
oh wow, thanks sean, thanks for being a pioneer with this new system, appreciate your kindness, cheers!
LIST OF OTHER WORTHY CONTENDORS -
► NI SUPER 8
► ROLAND ZENOLOGY
► SYNTH1
► U-HE DIVA
► BEHRINGER DEEPMIND
► ARTURIA JUN-6 V
► ROLAND JUPITER XM
► TAL NOISEMAKER
► ROLAND MC-101
► ROLAND MC-707
► SOFTUBE MODEL 84
Try the Softube Model 84 demo Woody, it’s identical to a 106 with the deep bass, chorus/output noise, even envelope clicks.
Synth1 was probably the first VST I found when I started working with a DAW. My first demos were almost exclusively Synth1 and I totally forgot about it, very simple but powerful tool!
if you have the time, do you think you could put chapters in this video for each option you cover?
Awesome choices there.
I can most definitely, highly recommend the TAL U-NO plugin since I've used that for years.
Yes! I have a Juno-106 and still use the TAL plug-in. It’s awesome.
Same! Ive found some organ sounds that the TAL can’t quite get, but its so close for pads, no noisy chorus and way more convenient. But then the TAL is a 60 not 106. I really think now I wouldn’t by a new keyboard because the plugins are so close and so flexible. Sure you need a laptop…. But you can pull up and layer nearly any sound from any synth, and add fx plugins. Having said that, cant see me selling the 106.
Cracking Vid Mush and I was truly honoured to have a cameo 🙏🏻 It really is fascinating seeing the the depth and variety of comments surrounding “Juno” “Analogue/Digital” etc 🤯
hi jack, was fascinating and really enjoyable to see your take on it, thanks a lot mate. still have my juno-6 in the uk, been in the box in a wardrobe since 1989... :D
5:03 The Roland Cloud Juno 106 does not use Zencore. Instead it uses the (arguably better) ACB engine. They use the ACB tech on the Roland Cloud plugin, Ju-06, Ju-06A, and the System-8 Juno plug-out. They have a separate ZenCore plugin that has a Juno 106 emulation - but its different than the ACB "Legendary" series Roland Cloud Juno 106.
you're right, thanks! tbf though i can't hear any difference between the two model types! but on the hardware , ACB offered mediocre polyphony so i for one are glad that roland replaced it.
Roland could have easily put 2 ACB boards in a full size keyboard if they wanted to keep things standalone...but they want folks to use Zencore so as to be tempted to sign up to $$$ Cloud licenses $$$
@@sarahhey8654 There's not much space left in them actually. And they certainly couldn't do it to the Xm. Fwiw, using Zen is free & models included in the units, so they're making nothing extra.
Had no idea about the Cherry Audio one. Thanks for share! ;-)
I have the cherry audio vst and it sounds amazing. I really like all their products. Their chorus echo is awesome. Their arp2600 is awesome.
If I may, the Roland Juno-106 you show on screen is the ACB version (Aira/System-8) not the Zencore/ModelExpansion version tou find on the Jupiter-X/Fantom/Juno-X.
Same as the XV-5080 plugin you show, this is not the same as the XV bank set Zenology/Zencore do have. Not sure what are the differences between these two though, I don't know the XV5080 well enough to compare the engines.
hi godz, yeah you're correct! i should perhaps have demoed zenology with the juno and xv model which would get you the identical sounds. to my ears they sound the same , and on the PC there are no poly limitations.
@@WoodyPianoShack yeah agreed, even on hardware I never managed to hear a clear difference between my System-8 and the qu’encore equivalent. The only difference were due to slight differences in parameters
@@WoodyPianoShack They're the same Woody.
The XV-5080 plugin has reverb & chorus effect stages like the original, unlike Zenology, so patches sound more complete. ZenCore has slightly different patch structures than the XP/JV/XV plugins & hardware. There is is no Boost parameter in ZenCore, for instance.
Where’s the ministry of truth when we need them? Zencore and the ACB models are not the same. Zencore is static and mostly a preset machine. ACB is a full on digital cloning. In my opinion the system 8 and ACB stuff sounds much more alive
I downloaded and installed the Arturia emulations and got to say they are pretty amazing as well.
Nice seeing you doing synth vids again :-) I think we are simply spoilt for choice from Roland at the moment. As a hardcore Roland Cloud consumer I still have the Juno-X on my wish list despite currently using the Jupiter Xm as my go to creativity tool. Also nice to see the underrated JDxi getting a mention. Probably should bring mine back from storage and give it a go again. As you say the sequencer is great on it. But with the latest system update for the Xs the sequencer is getting better on the new range too :-)
Hi Woody. I like and own the Arturia version of Juno which I like. I just received my Roland Juno-X Keyboard but not yet home to try it. I am so looking forward to getting to try it and see how much difference there is.
How do you feel about it?
My MC-101 has the zen core engine in it and i can get a lot of the sounds, and with my A-800 pro controller i can control a lot of the parameters.
great call, i forgot that the MCs have the zencore, although not the exact juno model, they can nail the sound nevertheless.
@SonicAids I have the MC-101 as well, but does the A-800 Pro do something special with it, compared to other (brand) midi controllers?
@@skullhqx unlikely
I’d love to see a Juno X vs Jupiter X/Xm shootout. I’ve an Xm and kinda lost the desire for a Fantom 06 or Juno X even considering selling my Juno DS61
Thank you very much for the great Alternatives Woody and
Jack your Body ;-))
glad someone noticed! u're welcome.
George Michael was a big fan of the Juno 60/106 and wonder what he would have made of these emulations if he was still alive today.
Thank you for mentioning the PCM workstation sounds, that's something that so many people strangely don't seem to care about. It's all that really matters to me, and I don't get excited by analog synth sounds that can be easily replicated by tons of cheap or free VSTs lol
i agree, including the xv is a brilliant decision, not only to cover the bread and butter studio and live sound palette, but also for layering some icing and sparkle to the juno sounds.
In the Juno-X's case, the PCM workstation sounds are just an extra, the focus is the Juno-106/60 emulation, and the front panel is geared towards that. Fantom, Jupiter-X, and Fantom-0 are better suited to those wanting to work with the PCM sounds. The Juno-X appears to be less bulky than the Jupiter, at least.
The Juno-X comes at a high premium for that layout and build quality in a digital synth. It does have the ability to load Zen-Core sounds, and I'm not sure if it's as good as the Fantom 0 or not for Zen-Core sounds, or if it includes any sample memory. I'm also curious of the "X" part of the Juno offers any significant additional features, or is essentially the same as the Zen-Core Juno 106. If so, Roland may offer it as a VST in the future anyway.
The soft synths options are great for people that can live without the original control layout. I'm not sure if their Boutique series can map MIDI CC controls, but using one of them would get a similar layout with smaller controls for about $400 and bypass the very limited 4 note polyphony using a soft synth.
The Cherry Audio clone you mentioned goes one step further than any of the clones, and possibly offers a significant feature I'm not sure the Juno-X can do. Sysex import of the original patches from sound collections. You can load them right into their VST. I'm not sure if you can do that on the Juno-X or Roland's own Juno 106 VST.
The TAL clone is offered also for iPad for just $11.99 Throw an iPad Mini in your MODX6 gig bag, and the MODX is class compliant device so it works really well with the MODX and will make use of the MODX audio interface with a single cable to an iPad. The iPad Mini is small enough it should fit on top of your MODX6 without to drag a stand. This would be one of the cheapest and most portable options. The new Fantom 0 by the way is not class compliant, so it doesn't integrate nearly as well with an iPad.
Roland's own Juno 106 VST is also offered for sale for about $150, so it's not just for rental, but you can get it either way. Roland authentic, and a tiny fraction the cost of a Juno-X.
While not a Juno, there is a very good free VST clone of the Roland JX-8P called the PG8X. It's even sysex compatible so you can import original sound banks, and Espen Kraft says it's more authentic than Roland's own JX-8P VST. There are comparison videos of the Juno vs the JX-8P you can watch online.
thanks for all the great suggestions and feedback classic arcade! interesting call on the boutique as controller! i boycotted it due to the low poly.
@@WoodyPianoShack I glad you liked them. Hopefully they will help someone.
Woody, you and your channel are awesome!
very nice ot you to say so david, means a lot to me!
Softtube's Model 84 also rates a mention, very close to the real thing!
The best hardware alternative is the Behringer Deepmind IMO, best software TAL UNO-LX. I've owned the TAL for a while, its spookily like my old Juno 106!
What is the name of the song @7:35...? I really love the song but heck it's been a long time.
If anyone know pls let me know 'cause I simply can't find the track after hours of searching.
My first synth was a Juno 106 and it served me VERY well.
I’ve upgraded my computer to a 13th generation i9 and all NV.2 hard drives and gobs of ram making the decision to go mostly VST. The computer upgrade was $852, far less than one high quality hardware synth and it will serve me to do ALL my tasks including synths, sampling, mixing, producing, et all. I have 3 hardware synths which I enjoy, but frankly the VST’s these days are beyond spectacular.
I watch some of these people with their $10-20K vintage synths and I think of what I can do with my $59 Cherry Audio GX-80 and $99 Reveal Spire and it seems illogical to go the hardware route anymore.
I understand the passion and allure, but the first time one of those vintage synths had a major problem with the keybed or logic board I would be kicking myself and end up spending time and money on repairs and NOT creating music. And let’s all be honest here, besides the Jupiter 8, Moog, most of these vintage synths do not sound impressive without effects and are extremely limited in their programmatic capabilities.
If I do break down and get another synth, it would be the Deepmind 12.
Thanks very much for these wonderful suggestions Woody! This also gave me the idea to start designing these sounds on my Korg.
A cheaper alternative, I admit. Yet there’'s also the joy of creating ones own sounds!
have fun, I think many substractive synths can get you close! maybe it's the magical chorus that can be tricky to nail.
I'm really of thinking of getting this synth I currently have the Tal-uno-lx
Amazing plugin, they were the first ones to release the Juno style chorus for free as a plugin
I go to GC and check out what's new. Sometimes I don't gel with a synth even if it sounds good. Sometimes it's like a spiritual experience and I can't break away from it. My 1st synth was a new Juno 60 back in the 80's so I have high hopes for this. The best thing about the Juno 60 was the chorus and I dont hear alot of cheaper emulations get it right.
I'd be much more interested in it if it were priced more reasonably at around $1199 rather than at $1999.
Really, it even has less CPU cores and power versus the Fantom-0
1400-1600 realistically would be the sweet spot, in line with the Xm, but I think that’s overpriced too. Edit: Also, why not a Juno Xm? Why is the Juno in the ballpark of the Jupiter? They had to stuff in enough junk to justify it.
@@aqueous5099 I do not feel like they stuffed enough to "justify" the price.
juno xm would be sweet! good call :)
interesting observation, the juno does less and doesn't need the horsepower of the fully multimbral workstation fantom-0.
I have a Juno DS 88, integra 7. with the Auturia MKII 88 controller. If someone wanted to, pick up a JV 1080 (used) or XV5050 (used). I prefer hardware over software. Thanks for your info, you always bring a lot to the table and do it very well.🎼🎵🎶🎹🎧😀
For editing a sound all of these rack modules are much worse than any VST.
The Roland System 8 with Juno 106 or 60 plug out is a very good alternative hardware alternative and uses ACB modelling
Great summary of alternatives, thanks Woody.
What do you think about Roland Juno DS? It has a lots of sounds from Legendary Roland synths.
it uses a different sound engine, but i'm sure it will cover those bases quite well! and of course, it has a ton of other useful features too, great value board overall i think!
I have one (DS 61 key)
The sounds are pretty good, and Roland is generous with the expansion packs. I personally don’t like the feel of the keybed, though.
Edit: I should also add that I like the control layout on the DS panel. I wonder if I can mod the keybed with a felt bumper under the keys? They hurt my clumsy hands after about 15 minutes in a way that my new Nautilus does not, which is part of the reason I got another synth. (actually, I like the key feel better on my cheap, noisy, Casio arranger than the Juno DS, but the Casio is really only useful as a MIDI controller)
I have a Juno DS88 and it gets a lot of use. I seriously doubt I will ever get rid of it either. I have had zero issues with it. It has some really good Roland sounds from the past. The DS series is PCM synth so there really isn't a sound engine per say, it is all sample based. The user memory space for samples is a bit limited, but still very versatile in what it can do. It can make very complex sounds. There are a few really good examples of that in the free expansions. Just keep in mind that you can only have one expansion in it at a time due to memory limitations. I personally do not like the keyboards in the DS61-76. That is usually a personal preference anyway thou. The synth action in a DS is very different from other Juno's. Others will and have mentioned that, a lot.
@@shvrdavid swapping expansion packs is a bit of a nuisance as well. I have to Google search for the process when I do it, then there is a 6 minute reboot process (vs the usual 20 second or so boot up).
While the sample based engine is somewhat limited, the filter and envelope adjustments are readily accessible. Also “super layer” is a quick way to set up a unison/detune effect, with only a shallow menu dive to refine the oscillator count and detune amounts on each.
@@Roboprogs It is a bit slow to load in an expansion pack.
Question, Does anyone know if it’s possible to mark presets as favorites? With over 4000 presets I can’t scroll through 1000’s of options to find the one I loved before I turned it off. Thank you!
I talked to Roland here in the States and they told me I could get the entire JUNO XS sound set on the Fantom O-8 that sells for the SAME PRICE!
A few potential caveats from what I’ve watched:
1.) they said in the Anderton’s video that the “Juno-X” engine, which is the more modern take on the Juno-60 and Juno-106, is “exclusive to the hardware” of the X. I would check Roland Cloud to see if they’ve made that model expansion available.
2.) The Fantom-08 can indeed load the same Juno-60 and -106 model expansions, but they are not included, and lifetime keys for each cost $150. So that would be an additional cost.
3.) The Fantom-0 series keyboards only have 256MB of non-expandable storage to load expansion sounds, so you may be limited to the number of model expansions you can have loaded at once.
JUNO XS? actually I think you'll find the JUNO model expansion is exclusive to the Juno-X. But the regular zencore synth sounds on the fantom nail the JUNO sound anyway so you'll basically get a similar sound palette, plus a lot more on the 08.
Well you can of course get very close to the sounds on other Roland hardware but no the new Juno has exclusive modules. I’ll stick to my Xm for now and the Roland Cloud for everything else.
@@synthverkstad2093 I'll continue sticking to my older keyboards as they nail the sound, too, I think System-8 is the best choice for really good emulation in hardware.
I treated myself to a jd-xi at Christmas mainly for it being a really nifty groove box for accompnymant and was more pleased as well as surprised that it featured juno presets. With the voices all being editable it can't be beat as a budget option for the home hardware only studio. Plus you can midi full size key controller. It's a very versatile synth but could do with a sturdier build quality.
right, the xi has fabulous vintage roland sounds, the supernatural engine does them very well.
@@WoodyPianoShack also the the Waldorf blofeld is great at emulating the Juno sounds check on Don Solaris's video where he designs a few Juno Sixty patches and compares to a real Juno Sixty. You have to listen extremely carefully to hear the difference.
Thanks Woody for covering the alternatives to the Roland Juno X. In my opinion the Juno X seems too expensive considering it's basically zencore. Oh and thank you for playing a few bars of Souvenir by OMD.
you're welcome. the price is an interesting topic of debate for sure. it would be useful to compare price of other similarly capable digital synths, nord lead, hydrasynth, umm. maybe there are others... it might not stack up as badly as you think.
Oh, wow, "Souvenir" by OMD at 7:35!! I love that song!!! Thanks for such a wonderful review. I have the Arturia's Jun 6 V, but am super interested in the Cherry Audio plugin after this review. There is a free VST plugin out there called Surge XT, and it's very good. It may be able to do some Juno-esque stuff, as well, and it's hard to beat free of charge :)
thanks for recognising my dodgy rendition!
@@WoodyPianoShack Your "dodgy" rendition is light years better than my own playing :). I've been on a mission for the last 2 years to actually get better at actually playing the keyboards. There's nothing more frustrating than when you realize that you have a certain innate songwriting and arranging talent, where you can come up with all these musical ideas and improvise in very cool & creative ways, yet your playing and music theory knowledge is so far behind it that you can't even repeat what you just previously played. It made me quit music for many years and immerse into programming and chess instead, but no more!
A little snippet of OMD, how lovely
Omg! Deepmind 12!! All in one board!
good shout, added to my pinned comment.
5:22 Those who don't like subscriptions can also buy a lifetime key for the Roland Cloud Juno-106 for 149 USD.
Juno-60, Jupiter-8 and most of their synths are also 149USD a piece. The XV-5080 is 129USD and they also have a separate Juno-60 Chorus effect vst for 99USD.
If you spend 150 bucks for a Juno VST then you should buy Softube Model 84 it sounds so much better than any of the others, Roland included.
@@mudi2000a I don't support knockoff vst companies
@@epicon6 softube a knockoff company?? Their products are top notch engineering and they also have a lot of licensed vsts but more for mixing and mastering. If Roland is not able to produce the best quality someone else has to do it.
@@mudi2000a I will specify then that i don't support unofficial instrument vst clones or hardware clones. I do support Softube but just not their knockoff instruments.
And i completely boycot Arturia and Behringer who make a large part of theit income out of cloning other people's instruments.
@@mudi2000a It may sound good, but it's nothing like a real one. The Roland is, hence you "think" it sounds better. I own the hardware btw.
This is the video we needed, too many fake/paid reviews saying it sounds like it’s worth the 2000, when there’s a lot of better options, Roland didn’t give the fans what they asked for
You could say that about literally every synth on YT lol. Who needs a Moog or an Oberheim, both overpriced compared to $49 vst's.
@@vaiman7777 yes but ppl will pay out the ass for analog synths, I won’t pay that for a fake analog
@@psychoticgiraffe Yeah, like that crap Iridium and Hydrasynth. Garbage
What about the Juno DS-88?
I'm looking for a hardware alternative which needs less space...the Deepmind Desktop seems to be interesting...any recommendations?
i've never tried any other small form factor alternatives, apart from jd-xi, if you can handle those mini-keys. but I think you might be onto a winner with the DM-D!
As you said: Of course you can get cheap good software synths. but just software. and you need a computer/laptop with DAW and a MIDI master keyboard.
Is that really cheaper than having the hardware that you can take with you almost anywhere? Especially if you don't want to take a PC/Mac with you.
I personally think the Juno-X is great because of its fullsize keyboard. But yeah, the xi is a great alternative.
for gigging, i wouldn't like to use any of these software solutions, but for studio or home use, with a good midi keyboard controller, they might be a good alternative for many musicians and producers.
Roland Cloud version sounds better than anything. It sounds so organic and round...
Thanks Mr W!
My main man Woody keeping it real in the suit jacket. TAL-UNO has never failed me. I don't see the Juno X being a bit hit as the Jupiter X makes it redundant
interesting comment, yes indeed the JUNO faces some stiff competition from it's big sister ... :)
the Roland Jupiter-X was a fail
My favorite overall is the Softube Model 84... but it's a little pricier, so wait for a sale. It's been around half-price a couple of times.
thanks for the tip chris, i've prob got enough juno clones but you've peaked my curiosity and I'll be watching for the sales.
@@WoodyPianoShack The trial version is fully-functioning (although software iLok) and seeing as you know your way around them anyway, you'll know if you like it or not within minutes, I'd imagine
I'll second that. The Model 84 sounds absolutely fantastic. Matt Johnson from Jamiroquai, who has a great UA-cam channel with lots of synth related stuff, has made a sound pack for the Model 84 I believe.
The sounds, even the hard to nail chorus, are so darn close to an original Juno. And the UI looks stunning.
Surprising how thick a single osc synth can sound. Probably owing to the built in chorus.
guess so. always been curious aboutthis , yes it's a single oscillator synth, but with 3 waveforms you can mix together. normally an oscillator only has a single waveform... so is the juno something in between single and multi?
@@WoodyPianoShack Adding multiple waveforms from the same oscillator will increase volume level (if not otherwise compensated) and add/emphasize/deemphasize certain harmonics depending on the waveforms selected and their phase relationships. In the case of the Juno, I believe it's mostly the chorus effect that thickens it up, quite nicely, and certainly more harmonics to filter is also a benefit.
All of your points are well known. I would say that it's possible to agree to them and still provide some reasons to own the real thing:
1. It becomes something you can turn to and focus on, and if it's very direct. The Juno-106 and Juno-X have this. This is the only way that you will reach all it can do with sound. Even the best controllers can't give this direct intimacy, because even after the tedious setup, you will hunt for which knob was it again.
2. Juno-106 has a deep performance controls section, which all keyboard controllers and the Juno-X lacks. The Juno-106 is a perfect performance controller for synth solos.
3. Some hardware synthesizers have characteristics that emulation can get close to, but never reach. The usual reason for wanting the real thing are the interesting interactions between filter and oscillators, with resonance, noise and distortion. Two more interactions are between this and key follow behavior and the performance section.
4. Even in modern synths and emulation, bloat introduces a delay when switching sounds. For sound carpets that you can modulate over á la the JD-XA, the foot switch can step to the next sound in the bank. This means that with the right signal generator pedal, you can turn an entire bank of sound into a sequence of sounds or arpeggiator.
W-30 as background in a Juno-106 video?
xp50, i'm disappointed in you. it's not that! ;) but at least it shares the pitch stick of the juno...
I’m waiting for the D-50X
gosh, i wonder if that will happen, not sure if there is the same nostalgia and demand for that keyboard.
@@WoodyPianoShack I would only buy it if they will correct the low level audio output. The Boutique version had that to avoid distortion when reaching around zero dB while using all 16 notes of polyphony. It was necessary because of the USB audio feature (in which the audio signal remains completely digital). People say that a real D-50/-550 has about 10 dB more output level. They should make it a switchable option (on/off) for those who only use the analog outputs.
Funny you played those two xv sounds! Those are literally my go to presets and “west coast”
it must have been the d50 references in the patch name that pulled me in...
@@WoodyPianoShack anything that sounds like fantasy..I want.
Me bought a new Fantom 08. Controls galore. Synth included. Buy add ons like your video, n play inside on units touch screen.
congrats on your fantom-08, that's a very worthy equivalent indeed.
I have a Korg Krome EX 73. and now i need this?
nah, not really. it'll do similar sounds! fight the gas :D
You should work as a product specialist for one of these companies
thanks for the compliment, i think, but no i rather prefer being a lone wolf.
@@WoodyPianoShack You have a very unique personality and people like you a lot : Cheers
What about the option of, all of the above? lol. I have all of them, and love them all, but I still have the Juno X on order, ordered it within hours of the release!
awesome robin, congrats! the X can be the ultimate controller for your juno VSTs! :D :p
hi devid I want roland fantom g6 synth
Wow. That sounds really good... I'm wondering if I should sell my Juno 60 now
I just love the way some of those sounds climb into your ears with the intention of making themselves at home there. I may go for a software emulation if I can persuade my NI keyboard to emulate some of the knobs and settings.
Great stuff. For messing about on trains and on holiday, I thought about an SH-01. Have you handled one of these?
only the software sh01! i'm intending to map up the knobs on my NI controller as well in komplete kontrol, that might give good results for the hands on controls.
Softube - Model 84. The best.
thank you, i did not know about this one. i will add it to my pinned comment with honorable mentions.
Fully agree
@@WoodyPianoShack Matt Johnson, keyboard player in Jamiroquai did some great tests on his YT-channel.
A surprising number of guys with such negative vibes making dismissing disrespectful comments. Woody's community is lovely friendly and positive. I wonder where those other guys have come from?
it's all good, a bit of controversy is good for the algorithm! cheers :)
I don't know what Roland was thinking, when the concept of the Juno-X was being developed(as it's just a hoard of vst's in a box with no recording & sampling....& costs $500 more than the Fantom 06!??)
it's the aluminium case and all those sliders that bump up the cost I guess. i do wish they had added a simple 5-track sequencer to the X, that's my only complaint really.
Last year I worked a while with the free TAL one. I was surprised how versatile a range of sounds you can make with it, sound-design-wise (= not just clicking presets). Seeing you play from the start of this video I suddenly thought: can't you make a video showing which sliders and knobs to assign to this TAL version (or another one) in the most practical way, when you have, say only, eight knobs and eight sliders (I think I remember there are about 40 knobs and sliders on the VST, so you have to make a choice, and how to arrange them on you MIDI-controller?). And then maybe recreate some of the iconic sounds in this video, including why they sound like that. I was especially surprised by the OMD-sound.
that's a really great question, and something I have been thinking about too, sadly my kross ony has 2 knobs so cutoff and reso was quite obvious, but yeah, it's an interesting topic, once i figure out what's most important for me. and perhaps it's different for each player..
@@WoodyPianoShack Because of limited deskspace I generally use a LKP25 (despite having a.o. a Roland A300) and considered buying a Korg NanoKontrol2 for this purpose (together a more flexible combination).
I've found the dco 106, and the roland cloud's res filter a little too 'hot', compared to a hardware model, but overall...they come pretty close.
My favourite is still tht tal vst....i think it's?the closest to my hardware
You forgot about Aturia Woody.
there's many candidates i missed, so i posted a pinned comment, thanks for putting me right.
@@WoodyPianoShack That's fine just Aturia is kinda an important one to mention.
Sorry Woody, I skipped through the video, as software can not replace hardware. You don't count a good D-A converter in the price. Not to mention a PC, which can crash, or Mac (expensive).
I only see one hardware alternative, but you might as well have mentioned the Behringer Deepmind or the Dreadbox Nymphes. Both gives you a Juno-esk sound.
But what about the Jupiter-X as an alternative? In The Netherlands it's only € 150,- more expensive (I bought mine for € 2.149,- and the pre-order for the Juno-X is € 1.999,-). Sure, you don't get the Juno work-flow. Or what about a Jupiter-Xm? Even cheaper, but with all the capabilities! Or a MC-707, with a master keyboard.
all good gert, thanks for the comment. :) i tend to assume most musicians producers already have pc and interface... tbh, i completely overlooked the Xm even though I have demoed one on the channel :o but on reflection, it's not cheap either, and represents pretty poor value for money compared to the juno-x (debateable). the MCs are a great shout though, even though they lack the juno model expansion, the zencore synth engine gets you in the ballpark. I agree, the Jupiter-X is a competitor, as are the fantoms if we ignore the "cheap alternative! that was the point of my video.
i'm happy that this video has stimulated some food for thought, thanks again!
Actually, in this case with the Juno X, it is software. It’s the exact same ABM modelling as the zencore cloud software.
Obviously, you don’t get the hardware controls but sound wise it’s the same.
By far the best and most accurate Juno emulations are the actual standalone Roland cloud ACB versions or the Softube model 84.
The zencore version in the Juno and Jupiter X are NOT the ACB versions as shown here by woody.
@@WoodyPianoShack Okey, my bad. I was under the impression you could load models on the MC-707, but apparently you can't. (It tells I don't own one.)
I have DCO-106, Roland Cloud Juno-60 & 106, but none of them give me direct hands-on control and instant tone shaping that the JUNO-X offers. Yes, it's expensive, but I'll get one.
yeah, no debate about that really. congrats if you pull the trigger, i'm tempted myself... :)
I don't understand the point of xv-5080 with some D-50 presets.
5080 does much more than d50 presets, i just gravitated towards that category
@@WoodyPianoShack yes I know, I own one and it is fantastic, I was meaning that those particular presets was not in context
I'd mention the Beringer Deepmind-12 as another Juno style hardware synth at less than half the price of this. (I have a Juno 60 and a DM-12.)
great call, it's in my pinned comment with the other contendors
Hey Woody, I am a big fan of all the Arturia emulations. I think getting the V Collection or Analog Lab is the way to go.
Another really fun one is the CS 80 emulator
I really wanted to want the Juno X even tho I already have the Juno DS61……. 3 different Juno “Engines” naaaaaaa and lots of overlap with my Jupiter Xm
Can’t wait to see what Yamaha has coming to replace the MODX line
Thanks for a great video Woody. I just bought the Cherry Audio DC0-106 for £20.97! Bargain and it sounds amazing!!!
it does, and there are a lot of thoughtful features in the settings and gui. i look forward to exploring it more myself, congrats!
Do check out the amazing plugins by TAL, they're criminally underpriced ! And allegedly sound just like the original ! The creator put up demos comparing his plugins and his hardware Juno-60, Jupiter-8 and SH-101 so you can see how identical they are
Or go for a Behringer DeepMind6 or 12.
yeah good call, i've never seen one, let alone played. heard a lot of good things about it though.
Well, the first three options are apps and only produce Juno sounds. Juno-X is capable of a lot more than that, so the comparison is not fair. And let’s remember that an app need a hardware, sound card, cables etc in order to run. No surprise they’re cheaper than hardware most of the times.
That wasn't the point of this video. The title is cheap alternatives, not cheap equivalents. This was for people who caught the attention of the Juno-X but are unaware of cheaper alternatives for a Juno/Juno type sound.
hi william, yeah i take your point, i tend to assume , wrongly or rightly, that most of the people watching this video already have a pc, audio interface and some kind of keyboard with midi out. for making music in the studio, the apps are quite viable alternatives, to the listener of the finished tracks, they will never know if you used the hardware or softwrae juno.
@@WoodyPianoShack I see your point. Anyways, great channel. Cheers from Brazil.
I think if one wants to go all in with Roland Zencore, the Fantom 0 series is the better choice for the money. Myself, I have gone the poor man's route with a Juno DS and sample the sounds I want from Zencore or anything else for that matter😁🎶🎹 Play On Dudes!
Deepmind 12 is a lot cheaper than the Juno X plus it's analog.
aha, wow, i'd completely forgotten it's analog. what's the poly count?
@@WoodyPianoShack It has 12 note polyphony but you can stack voices too. Great synth with great FX too.
But it sounds nothing like a Juno lol. I own both and they are nothing alike, seriously.
@@vaiman7777 I know. However it sounds great, sits well in a mix and has great FX and Modulation capabilities plus its cheaper.
@@davidlloyd9598 Well... yeah. True lol. But... I do also have an Xm, and while it was cheaper as I bought it 2nd hand, I love it. So between the 3, I have 6 synths that cover so much ground. Layering up 4 synths on this is so much fun, I wish I had bought this now tbh. But I'll have to stick with the Xm for now.
5. TAL Noisemaker, free VST, sounds like U-NO LX
cool,. I created a pinned comment with all the viewer suggestions.
Could you , perhaps consider making a , small doc, about your gear, mac / pc, daw , audio interface, etc….
just curious.
Ps. i did change my avatar / picture, i was the one, that was making apri’s fools with the wavestation.
it's on my backlog, to make a video about how i record synths, so yeah thx for the suggest.
@@WoodyPianoShack Thank you Woody.
The sun is allways shining on Woody Piano Shack youtube channel 😃, and MTV, 😂.
You forgot the cheapest hardware solution. A Roland boutique, either the current one, or a used first generation, combined with your midi controller of choice.
a boutique with 5-note poly is not a juno, sorry roland!
@@WoodyPianoShack 4-note. 😉
@@WoodyPianoShack You could buy two and chain them for 8-note poly - the Boutiques are set up for that. But that's about £660 for the new ones, and then a decent 61 key controller bumps the cost up. If I wanted to gig with a 106, I'd be looking for a good all-in-one hardware solution, not bodging together some Boutiques (I do have a JU-06) and a controller with a bunch of extra spaghetti tying it all together.
Thanks for this. The Roland Cloud has gotten a lot of criticism as you need to keep paying every month, or you lose your access. If you have songs that use particular VST plugins, than they won't work anymore, if your subscription ever lapses. You also need to keep your music PC connected to the Internet, which some people (like me) don't do for security and latency reasons. Finally, the Roland plugins are very accurate in replicating the originals, but they are very CPU hungry and the interfaces don't scale well on monitors.
I can definitely recommend TAL-U-NO-LX. It's worth mentioning that they also have an iPad app version, which is even cheaper than the PC version and sounds just as good. If you're an iPad musician, this is great.
Finally, you should consider the Behrenger DeepMind 6, which is based closely on the Juno (it's a clone in everything but name) and is a genuine analog hardware alternative--at a very reasonable price.
thanks for the suggests, yeah TAL is on my backlog of video topics, as is the DM6, which might be a good candidate for inclusion in dawless jammin setup.
Juno? I only saw a D-20…😜 Great video!
the best i can do at the moment, well, at least it has the pitch bend lever stick... :)
I really don't understand why this product exists. Surely the Jupiter X is capable of doing all of this?
well, if i understand correctly the JUP doesn't have the JUNO model, but has the JUPITER model, and better keyboard. costs more too. one is a homage to the jupiter, the other to the juno. good to have choice.
The Jupiter X has the 106 model (Zenology/Fantom) but not the new Juno-X and Juno 60 models.
Yeah but it's just a different model expansion, I guess Roland can stick to their guns and keep that locked to each hardware product.. otherwise it is all about what furniture you want :)
If I were in the market for one of these (I’m currently not), I think I would spend the extra for the Jupiter. From what people in other comments are saying, it’s only about 5 or 10 percent more.
The only point I see in hardware synths like the Juno-X these days is their full control panel, but I love sound design. The majority of players would probably hardly use the knobs anyways. Software is the way to go, also saves a lot on raw materials.
I can see pros picking them up but it's not for me. If I get anything Juno-ish it'll be the Boutique though it's no bargain here in Canada.
i refuse to acknowledge the existince of the ju-06 and its measly 5 note poly.
@@WoodyPianoShack I hear you but I only play two-handed on the piano (because it lacks knobs to twiddle) so voice count is only occasionally a problem for me e.g. long envelope decays/releases.
Softtube Model 84 sounds much much better. 😬
Wtf is with all the Juno X bashing??? I just bought mine and I LOVE it!!!
who is bashing the juno-x? i think it's superb!
I see that people are minimizing the Juno-X in the comments, calling it a plugin in a box but that is minimizing it unfairly.
It gets you a solid build that will last, a nice keyboard (that boxes don't have), a built-in drum machine function to program grooves to play along to, a mic preamp on the back that allows you to have a physical vocoder, it offers full hands-on control of all the parameters, and it allows people to play live or gig without needing to rely on a computer. There's no latency when playing with it either so you don't have to set buffer sizes like in a computer. Maybe that's not what people want to spend their money on and that's fine, but what I just mentioned is a lot more than just a "plugin in a box."
It severely disappoints me to see that a bunch of Roland cloud vsts that are cheap sound better than a 2000 dollar synth lol
Thanks for the info about the Roland Cloud Woody. I admit that I wasn't aware of it before now but I signed up for a free account and downloaded the Zenology Lite plug-in (also free) that comes with some really good pre-set sounds to play around with. 🙂
Roland JD-Xi sounds incredibly good, but it has its own signature sound which is unique to JD-Xi and is not like anything else. The JD-Xi is not for emulating Juno, especially because the JD-Xi has no chorus (phaser and flanger instead). Also the JD-Xi has much weaker bass than Juno.
JD-Xi gets its synth tones and engine from Jupiter-50, drum engine is the usual JV1080-ish affair for Roland keyboards, but with some quite nice samples
xi has the supernatural synths as found in the FA, if I'm not mistaken, and they can pull of the JUNO pretty good, but you're right, the 60 chorus is not there, but throw in any stereo chorus and you're close.
@@WoodyPianoShack FA also gets its sounds from the Jupiter-50, drum engine is just like the JD-Xi's but with more and better samples, making it even more versatile
Juno x is the roland cloud sound
yeah, it's the same as cloud zenology, which imho is the most underrated and best bargain in the synth industry, fantom, jupiter-x and juno-x for just a few bucks a month.
@@WoodyPianoShack Did you know that for the price of the new Roland Juno X its 12 years of the Roland Cloud? who knew.....definitely a waste of money investing in the Roland Jupiter-X and the Roland Juno X. I don't know what Roland is doing at this point they're all over the place.
@@tuneunleashed Once the chip shortage is over, Behringer will eat them for breakfast. 😂
If you guys everthink of buying a hardware just get the new Roland Fantom-0 and it has the Zencore engine in it so you can download the Juno 106 expansion and you're all good...you've got a Juno 106 cheaper than have this fake Roland Juno X
without those lovely front panel controls though, isn't the 0 rather crippled in the controls dept? are you sure that the 106 expansion is available for the fantom? even if not, you can still get juno sounds from the zencore engine, it's not a difficult synth to approximate.
The new Juno-X engine is exclusive to the keyboard, with more osc, osc delay and osc panning.
Ehhh? Did all of you miss that the JUNO-X is a full ZEN-Core engine, it's basically a slightly less priced (still way too high price though) Jupiter X, but with a really ugly outfit...
Cherry Audio plugin sucks, zero Juno magic, Roland cloud 106 sounds a lot better.
A real hardware synth is a great thing, no driver problems, no upgrades and still works when your computer's OS is no longer supported. But the new Juno X seems like a cash grab ...why would I spend 2000 when you just buy a VST in a box?
Because Juno-X hardware sounds different HQ and with huge big new features and much more polyphony... You can figure out only when You compare both: hardware vs. boutique or Zenology etc...
ROLAND JD XI $800 in Canada plus fucking taxes
Not pleased with Roland. The new synths are expensive and hobbled from a storage perspective (Fantom 0, 256mb in 2022? Really?). Plus they are going down the endless $$$$ DLC path, while providing lackluster system updates and a strong history of product abandonment.
This is a joke and sounds cheap and fake compared to the Behringer DeepMind which costs 1/3rd the price
that's a great alternative which I forgot to mention, although I have yet to try one. i added it to the pinned comment with viewer suggestions.
Pp
Just buy the original. It’s cheaper _and_ analog.
you could do that! possibly cheaper, but not convinced myself if there is any actual advantage to it being analog.... :)