When it comes to DAW vs DAWless setups in the studio, I've opted for both! I've tried one or the other but the problem I have is that starting songs on the computer is boring but finishing songs on hardware is painful, so now I start my songs on hardware and then finish them on the computer. It's the best of both worlds. The trick is being able to seamlessly move between the two, which isn't that hard these days when DAWs like Ableton have the Push and Move and Note. My DAWless setup isn't even truly DAWless. It's running into a mixer app on the iPad. My DAW setup has expensive hardware. I've got an Apollo interface. Those things cost just as much as synths, not to mention all the plugins. We've blurred the lines between the two camps so much that they're not even separate camps anymore. All that matters in the end is that you are able to express yourself as an artist. Figure out whichever way works best for you and produce something with it. After a certain point, it's time to turn off GearTube and make some music!
This is such an obvious answer that I think this whole daw vs dawless debate is just done by UA-camrs trying to generate views. Get a physical instrument that is fun to play and write songs on…software instrument the rest
Yeah, totally I agree. I was trying to go DAWless, but I ended up figuring out that I just love to use hardware instead of VSTs. I realized I don’t mind using daws for recording, arranging, and mixing my songs. I just get turned off by using VSTs. I also prefer to jam live instead of DJ, so hardware is still the way to go for live performances. DAW/Hardware combo set up is the best for sure.
I had all outboard gear when I was younger, Atari ST, Korg M1, D50, the odd analogue keyboard and samplers etc., but I'm now all in the DAW. I just love the instant recall and multiple instances of instruments/FX and no wires all over the place. Also, your wife doesn't have a clue of your sneaky purchases 😅
If you have just one machine and make all the music with that, the music will sound like that particular set of sounds from one source. But if you pick several machines of your interest and explore them, it will be part of the creative process to combine sounds from your own selecttion of sound sources, so it will potentially be more diverse and unique combination of sounds. And I think it's also good to explore different stuff to unlock creative ideas..
@@petevineaux Getting something 'done' is not the same thing as creating interesting music people want to hear. That seems the difference in mentality that makes a workstation user versus a synth person. Granted, one is typically altogether more productive than the other however.
I've had my Montage for about 5 years now, it's a beast, and there's no sound in the world you can't make with it, bought it second hand as it was FAR too expensive. However, 2 years ago I got the Akai MPC key 61, I wasn't a part of that whole MPC groove, chopping, cooking, looping, sample-reusing kind of culture that follows MPC, but the Key 61 was a workstation game-changer for me. You just turn it on, you can have a lot of VSTs in it, it updates from the internet directly, and they've even released a FREE MPC 3 complete composer (built right in) for it now. And I have to admit, I've hardly used any of my other gear. You swith it on, in 5 minutes you've produced a basic beat, in 30 minutes you have a completely new song ready to upload for the world to enjoy with you. It's the best workstation I've ever had. I'm the same age as you bud, and I'll say this - I totally feel you for all those dinky lil minisynths and gadgets the industry is releasing for nostalgics and GAS folks everywhere, but they never end up satisfying you like a good workstation does. It's just sit down and produce, and I like it that way.
I guess it also depends a lot on the style of music that you’re making. 😉 I own workstations, more specifics synths, and the DAW + VST instruments on a laptop. I don don’t own any MPC, and I looked recently at the MPC keys (61 and 37), and I was not convinced that it would be right for me (I may be wrong). All the videos that I watched seem to focus a lot on getting so,e results quickly (starting of with the beats), but we’re very underwhelming as whole source of sounds for creating other music genres. Maybe this is due to several years of using Cubase, but if I only want to make beats and add bass and other more “generic” instruments, I can do it very quickly. I can’t say if it’s faster or slower than in the MPC Keys, but that’s certainly not a long task. I rarely use samples (I mean, I use a lot of sampled/rom synths, but that’s different), and if I’d had to guess where I spend my time the most, it may be on the articulation of certain VST instruments (like strings, guitars, etc), which I don’t know if the MPC is able to do. (?) So I would like to ask you what’s the music genre that you do the most, and you end up using the sounds of the MPC as the final result (like something that you would publish on a “record” / Spotify, etc), or more like something to carve the foundation for your songs. I guess that this might be somehow specific depending on the music genre, but my question comes from not finding any finished song done entirely (or mostly) on the MPC Keys, with vocals added later, etc? Thank you. 🙂
@@rogerioamorim8057 The MPC can run VST's like Cubase, it's kind of like an integrated DAW. When I bought mine, it came with its own Strings VST, and they're fantastic, then there is the Hype and Fabric XL, it also has OPx-4 (an FM synth) etc. The music types I make is mostly live-play directly on the piano keys, I use the pads to make the rythm, and just add sounds by pressing next-track etc. It's fairly straight forward and zero menu diving. I make all kinds of music from Classical sounding adventure type of music to electronics music, all kinds of stuff. The MPC can also act as a controller for your entire studio such as remote controlling and using your mixer as a sound card, it can control 8 CV analog ports, and both old school DIN-based MIDI to USB based midi. It's crazy versatile.
I love all my "GAS" toys, but having an all in one, that you can save and recall as a preset/project is pretty cool too. I have an MPD One, that I rarely use, because it is too complicated for me to enjoy. I spend too much time trying to figure it out, and I forget what I was trying to do, and loose my inspiration. I'm hoping the new ver 3 OS will be better. For me, the ElektronSyntakt, and Digitakt 2, are my favorite groove boxes, and the Elektron Workflow allows me to create fun stuff, without getting to bogged down in the process.
@TheScreamingFrog916 I almost didn't touch my MPC One for two years, but I'm beginning to enjoy it now that I'm getting used to the workflow. It's can do a lot of things for a standalone device
ModX is half the price of a montage but contains all the same sounds and functions as Montage and ModX+ even has full polyphony of the montage in the FM engine.
True, I feel the same way. But there are some iPad apps that use that interface in a unique way, that would be impossible to do on hardware. So I love both.
Instead of always having to haul all the gear when you want to use them, try what happens when you dedicate a small free space right next to your workstation synth. You can put a single piece of extra gear there quickly and easily without hassle. Hook it up and use it with your workstation. You could have a lot of fun that way, changing the gear quickly and easily whenever the inspiration strikes.
Keyboard guy vs Synth guy. I'm definitely a synth guy. So no workstation. And it's a pleasure to have multiple instruments. When I started my musical journey, i chose an all in one synth JV 880 (8 parts). But using the same instrument was frustrating. I started to get other synths like a Bass Station 1 and discovered that it was what i like. Now i probably own more than 50 synths (most of them are small desktop modules). It's the pleasure of the instrument, their sounds, their shapes, their specificities. But I'm not into the DAWless thing. I started with an Alesis MMT8 as sequencer in early 90s, and I'm happy that DAWs exist since then.
All totally valid points! However, for me it’s just about the ‘fun’ of having tons of gear with each their own characteristics and sound qualities and just ‘have at it’. It’s what I do with several years of classical piano training, being bored out of my mind with that (or just not good enough) and dreaming of making the ethereal soundscapes of a Jarre, Kitaro, Schulze, Tomita and more, all the ‘grandfathers of Synth’ -for myself while I tenaciously, but bored, hammered away for hours on end to get the classical pieces my tutors deemed ‘necessary’ into my little brain and fingers. (Don’t get me wrong. Now I’m older, I appreciate those years. They made “playing keys” second nature, helped by a musical ear and solfeggio burnt in my brain.) I’m not a professional musician. Absolutely not. My siblings went that way. I didn’t. I got into ICT by accident.. :P I play purely for my own enjoyment. Having said all of that, I dó have the luxury of a space where I can leave everything where it is, connected and all. Having to dust it all every now and then is the only drawback. :P Added to that, I’... Ehmm.. ‘can afford it’ so to speak. Though, ‘GAS’ ìs my weakness, admittedly :D. Then again, I’m none too bothered if I have to sell stuff if I need the space, or am just bored with a certain machine. On the other hand, I do my ‘practicing’ and deconstructing of music that I want to play ‘because’, on.. yup…. A simple DGX670 that’s just standing there in the sitting room. In the end it’s just a ‘hobby’ for me. Other people have tons of LEGO, or eye-wateringly expensive 1/6 scale action figures, or dolls, if You will, or die-cast cars that cost as much as a real one. Is it useful? Not to ‘the greater world, no. It’s all about the enjoyment one gets, I guess. A ‘professional’ looks at stuff as ‘investment’, a hobbyist like me looks at it as ‘enjoyment’ and if family and friends ask for a little music, they can get it, but that’s as far as it goes for me.
When asking these kind of questions, the answer is almost always: Workflow. Finding a workflow that works for you for any specific task is the most important factor. For myself, I have four groups of instruments for different purposes: Guitars and acoustic instruments for non-electronic music. Yamaha Refaces for self-contained, turn-on-and-play keyboard playing anywhere. A few analog synths just to have the experience of analog. MIDI controllers and my iPad for recording. It occurs to me that one universal problem with most electronic music hardware is that MIDI settings are always buried. That really inhibits workflow unless you're just using a single bit of kit all by itself. (And even my Refaces can be more fun together when wired up and configured, but the "power on while holding a key you'll have to look up in the manual" configuration for all but the DX, the silly Reface-only dongle for MIDI, and the lack of MIDI Thru hampers doing that without pre-planning.) Someone should make a line of gear where all the MIDI settings are considered first class features with clear, front-panel controls and with the full trinity of MIDI ports. I think a company like-for example-Donner-could do some disruption that way.
Really insightful - I think there's a difference between a performance and a producer that will make your setup look very different. My workflow is multi-track recording and writing flow, but you may start with performance as a musician and build around that. You may enjoy the flow of building in real time and recording as you go, or maybe you start with a reference track and figure out an arrangement. You might begin with just a vocal track, or melody, or something like that. Perhaps playing a riff or chord progression inspires something.
The problem with having lots of synths isn’t necessarily the cost of the units, it’s having them all hooked up at the same time. The cabling, stands, desks, mixer inputs and actual space is where the real cost is.
There is lots of creativity in connecting different pieces of gears up. I usually feel my setup gets 'stale' after a while so I love having lots of different pieces of gear I can connect together in a new way.
This might be the wrong channel for my story but my house was badly damaged by a hurricane. I lived in a hotel room for ten months while repairs were being done. Out of necessity I moved my music workflow from hardware to software. Now it's all on my MacBook Pro and my iPad. I enjoy the freedom. I'm OG and started my career in the 1970's with a Hammond M3 and a Rhodes stage piano. Times have changed and I've tried to stay current.
Yeah, there must be millions of patches at this point with all the plugins I have available. If I learned just a little more sound design I could probably recreate any sound on the mac or find a sample library for it, or just record it. There should be a competition for this in the Olympics or something, to recreate a sound on the fly you haven't heard before within a time limit LOL
Good to hear you survived and kept making music. I’m old school but I use my synth midi out to my pc with cat to get more voices and choices. I use two old condenser mics but output them to my Pod usb to my pc to get noise removal and compression and eq settings I can’t get otherwise. At least not affordable. Whatever you can be creative with old and new.
Great discussion. I built a dedicated home studio with lots of modular gear and Native Instruments Maschine as a sound bank. I lost it all in a house disaster and am back with Roland MV1, JDxi, and a Boss RC 505. I've gone deep into those which is discipline to go deep and keep using **THESE ONLY**, using their limits as creative benefits. Whenever I get G.A.S. I come back to my workflow, and print the sections of the manuals with a highlighter pen to keep me learning.
Gear Acquisition Syndrome is definitely a thing, but at our age I feel a $6,000 collection of instruments isn't a big deal. Not if you consider it's only roughly $200 per year for each year of our adult lives. I spend far more each year just keeping my car running, and I don't drive a lot. Plus a lot of music gear tends to hold its value, to a degree. Decent guitar pedals, classic synths, etc. So it's not money down the drain. It can feel like a waste if it ends up sitting on the shelf but sometimes it's just nice to know it's there when you feel like using it.
@@grandfallooner41 Zing! This is a perfect place for me to make a slightly unrelated comment that this is why I support smaller acts that I really like and they are really talented and work hard. Those that perform at smaller venues and even with fees and taxes and all, the ticket is like $37. Big acts get enough money, I love to support the "underdogs". Talking about synths, I "splurged" on a front row center for $100 for Tangerine Dream, and with Steve Roach as guest, the whole band in front of me, it was a great experience. You do not get the feeling of being just one in 40,000 in the crowd. Let's think about that. HALF of the original Queen costs $800, and "working class hero" Bruce Springsteen costs $1,500. Support the underdogs, and buy a synth, you will feel much more accomplished!
I get your point. I just sold my beloved hydrasynth and microfreak and used the money to pay for most of my new MPC Key 37, which is effectively a mini workstation. Life is just a lot simpler and I can focus on writing music instead of combining different bits of kit and I can even plug in a mike or guitar. My Behringer model D and Roland MC-101 are probably going soon as well…
The more gear we have, the less music we make. Fact. There are DOZENS of UA-cam channels that “teach” you how to make music but all they do is twisting knobs on a simple arpeggio, no actual keyboard players. Even JM Jarre went modern and all vast and ditched most of his analogs…How I miss the ‘70s….
I went the route of buying a Korg NTS-1 for £100, filling it with custom oscillators (including two drum machines) and custom effects then plugging it into an IQaudio Codec Zero ADC/DAC on a Raspberry Pi5 and running the free Ardour7 DAW. I control the NTS-1 from the Pi desktop with Oscar RC's NTS-1 Web Editor app that includes an excellent sequencer. The beauty of the NTS-1 is that it also has an analogue input allowing you to use the effects section as a stereo effects pedal if you have line level signals available. I use that to add effects to a PO-32 Tonic that's synced up to the NTS-1. My setup is sod all use for live performances, but great for putting together multitrack noodlings at home.
I forgot to say, Oscar RC's app allows you to save out and load an infinite number of patches as well as storing an instantly accessible bank of up to 16 patches. Each patch can be any possible combination of oscillator and effects settings, so that's potentially billions of different sounds at your fingertips. There's also a "Randomize" feature that randomises all NTS-1 oscillator and effects selection and parameters at the click of a button. You can then manually tweak whatever pops up to tailor it into something more to your liking and save that out as a patch. It's the kind of flexibility I wished the NTS-1 had out-of-the-box, and now it has it via Oscar RC's NTS-1 Web Editor.
You can also have this discussion for many other topics. Should I use an classical bike or an e-bike? Should I buy a car or rather use a car sharing service? And, when I buy a car, rather a modern car or a classic car? For me, the answer is, it depends on what do you want to achieve. If you want to use a bike to simply get from point A to point B , an e-bike should be the better choice. If you're enjoy screwing and tinkering on mechanics, you'd rather buy a classic car. If you want to produce electronic music, you get on very well with a Arturia Keylab 88 MKII and Analog Lab. Or any other DAW/ production suite. Developing a synth setup containing single components is about exploring electronics, to enjoy working with limits, to experiment with effect chains, routings, sequencers and all the guff. I've learned over the years that this kind of things really bring me joy and fun and I don't regret a single purchase (OK there were some fails but I've sold everything that didn't work for me ).
Work station guy. Gig in two tribute bands. Korg 01W and Hammond XK-2, Mackie mixer, JBL Eon speaker. Yamaha ModX7+ is my backup. Sometimes I’ll set it up and have all 3 on stage because I like the Rhodes sounds it has. I practice on a Rhodes 88 soft shell that’s in perfect condition.
Exactly. You should start with only the absolute essentials, and then add stuff over time as you discover your specific needs that your current setup cannot handle.
Yes true, there is no right setup, there is only a right one for each person, and you wont know until you find a need / gap or areas you need to boost up. Also, there is a reason that DAW based production took off, it is economical in comparison. However, there is a third path after DAW and DAW-less, and that is Multi-track (or loopers). By recording parts as you go, you reduce the range of equipment needed, down to 1 or 2 synths really. Take those stems and mix those down, you could even record the fx for each onto another stem, reusing the fx unit for each stem. Or more realistically, take it into your PC and chop the files up.
@@gdr189 Yes thats a great way to arrange, produce, and perform. The Multitrack / Many Looper workflow is one I’ve considered too in contrast to a DAW like Ableton/Studio One, or going DAW-less etc. 👍
Your arguments for a workstation had me doubting myself with your elegant reasoning. But first we must divide studio recording and live play, I would NEVER have my synth studio for live play. The only instrument I play live is solo acoustic piano, and I don't bring it with me, whatever is on stage that is what I have to make sound good. So let's just talk about studio recording. I have 17 musical electronic instruments for orchestrating songs. Each one hand picked and researched for years before buying. Each one has their job to do. Next, I only record Vangelis style; the entire song in one take using as many as 17 instruments. I have a floor full or pedals to control them all, plus very precise MIDI connections too. Then when both my hands and feet are busy playing music, I use powerful pattern sequencers (not stupid step sequencers) to add in what all my limbs cannot do. So why not in the box or a workstation? All the songs I compose have custom sounds I design on the synths, custom rhythms too, just for that song. Sound design on a workstation is a pain, menus take 10x longer or more to design a new sound than a knob per function (NPF) synth. Plus, I enjoy sound designing but hate it on menus. The other reason is my studio is far more versatile than one or a bunch or workstations; with monaural and poly analog, digital polys, the perfect sampler, a high-end digital piano, and a sequencer no workstation has. I have 20 floor pedals to control my studio, you're lucky to have 3 pedals on a workstation. And as you said, each instrument is absolutely perfect for its job. I don't run out of polyphony either, the last workstation I bought when I took it out of the box and played the first patch like a piano it ran out of notes even with 256. Know your equipment, I am getting old, 67 years now, and to keep my brain sharp I continue to challenge myself with a deep understanding of every one of my 17 instruments. This year I took on Kurzweil VAST, and a new arranger which I use to write my own custom styles for each song, very challenging indeed, but I never give up even when there seems to be no hope. So, I spend years getting to know my synths and already know which synth I am going to use to make the sound in my head. I can design the sound in my head too, before sitting down to actually make it. That can only be done with deep understanding. Half my time is education and learning and the other half making music, so instead of watching movies or playing games, I watch instructional videos and read manuals. The studio never changes, once fine-tuned for position of instruments and routing, it doesn't change. This way I know without marking anything which mixer channel each synth is, which effects is routed, which keyboard is remotely MIDI controlling another. Each instrument is position perfectly (ergonomically) for both programming and performance, so no body contortions and pain. The joy of recording an entire orchestration live in one take, without multi-tracking, is difficult to explain, this Vangelis style of recording is all I do now, and all I want to do! Can you imagine the power of being in the middle of a complex orchestration and controlling it all, every note is in the moment and fully immersed. I am in Heaven during the recording/performance, and I hope it shows in the songs.
I've been to electronic type of concerts for years, and I don't think I've seen one that didn't use DAT or some other way of performing, but some sytnhs on stage for manual use, or maybe in some cases, just for show.
Kudos for the dedication. I resonate with your approach. Only one question. Why not multitracking? Why not give yourself the chance to go and correct something in the recording if needed?
@@kostisv I multi-tracked for overdubbing for decades, it was how it was done. I still multi-track but all the tracks are filled at the same time, I have a 32 channel analog mixer subbed down to 4 stereo channels that input into a hardware 24 track SD recorder. I have been working with 8 inputs and 8 tracks, but my old Zoom R24 is getting old and may replace it with a 20 track/input Zoom SD, then I will much more control over the one-take recording for mixdown. This Vangelis style one-take recording allows me to be in the moment and fully immersed in the song, all emotions are captured.
I've been on this journey. Settled for an Akai MPC Live 2. I want something I can just switch on and use in the living room. Battery and built in speakers (which are decent enough sounding) mean no faffing about with wires. With the latest MPC 3 Beta it's improved quite a lot over the v2 with a linear arranger. However, the Akai Force is better (I have one of these too), the clip workflow suits me better as do all the buttons. It's just that requires plugging in and wearing headphones.
I think this is a great approach - you can sample or record from other hardware as you go, reduces the need to have everything hooked up all at once with audio/midi cables and patch bays and mixers. At some point I want to do LoFi tracks and use a sampler and field recorder for inspiration.
MPCs also have a great set of Vsts, plus they are nearly unlimited once you start manipulating samples. Such a wonderful little all in one box that gets you off the computer and away from the habits and distractions that come with that.
My problem with using my MPC One, is the steep learning curve, and amount of fiddling it requires, to do even the simplest of tasks. I really want to like it, because it is so powerful, and has lots of hardware features that make using it with external keyboards, Midi devices, and Eurorack, a possibility. But every time I sit down with it to make some tracks, I get distracted and tired by the workflow, so I loose my inspiration and give up. Still have it, but it is collecting dust. I am hoping that the new Ver. 3 firmware update, will make it a better experience. Meanwhile I got into the Elektron devices and have found them much easier for me to have fun with. Started with the Model Cycles, then got the Syntakt for more features, and now have added a Digitakt 2, which is amazing. I think if you have the time and money, it is best to try everything, to see what clicks with your brain, and personal style of music creation. For me, just reading and looking at UA-cam videos, was not enough to decide. I had to try them for myself to really know.
I’m a workstation guy, but I can appreciate having guaranteed polyphony dedicated to each of your desktop devices, instead of hoping you have enough in a workstation between all your tracks.
I get a lot of inspiration from different gear I own. Every piece is unique and adds something that cannot be replaced by anything else. Good if you are happy with a generic workstation. But that is not for me.
I've tried different approaches over the years. My current method is using a workstation and adding additional sounds, where necessary from hardware module synths...like using condiments. Much easier than hooking up 15 different units. Tried the DAW and plugin approach for a while but never really bonded with it emotionally. There's a real advantage to the VST approach, though and I believe that's the direction that most pros will adopt. For now, I enjoy the physicality of hardware for sound generation and use the computer to record and manipulate audio tracks. I've also learned to only buy new gear if it can give me something I can't get from my current stuff. Nobody needs five different virtual analog devices, for instance. At that point, you're just a collector, not a synthesist. Some of my best work came from taking things away from the mix instead of adding.
I just bought Arturias Vintage softsynth, including arp2600, yamaha cs-80, prophet v, cmi, synclavier, ms-20.. $300 on the black friday setup for my mac mini m4.. Arturia offered me $50 crossgrades to FX 5 and pigments. Yes if you get the $300 vintage synth you get all their effects modules for $50 extra.. and pigments their multifaceted synth.. . I'm shopping for a slider/knob controller..
I’ve found my minimalistic setup the most convenient. It’s always on and ready to go: MacBook with Logic, MIDI keyboard, USB/Thunderbolt hub, audio interface, microphones, headphones, and the several guitars. 🎉
Do not fully agree, altough this is a valuable consideration. I have Circuit Tracks connected with a couple of HW Gears and it works fine. Full dawless. You cannot do everything of course but live jams are ok.
I think if you have a bunch of stuff, you gotta just buckle down and take a few days to learn how to set them all up together in a space where you don’t have to switch things in and out. I did this with my setup: MPC One, SP404mk2, Ableton Move, Teenage Engineering KO2, launchkey 37, and MacBook Pro using Ableton. Everything is set up and Now I just turn it all on and run it through Ableton and make music straight into Ableton. No extra cables or cords or machines stored away…just exactly what I need and nothing more. I think there’s a lot of restraint needed to keep a workflow that doesn’t swallow you alive with options. Especially when there’s so many cool things coming out. Restraint LOL
DAW is fine for me. I started with Cubase and a lot of gear in the 90s. Now I can do way more than I could with all that gear but with a nice, minimal set up and a fraction of the cost.
I grew up in the era where DAWs weren't a thing and then they were only affordable to a handful of musicians. Having a computer sequencer and a MIDI interface like an Opcode Studio 3 was a bit better. Now that all of your instruments and mixing can happen inside a $600 laptop, I find DAWs to be so convenient. They have total recall. You have an unlimited number of instances of the same piece of kit (providing you have enough CPU to host it). There's nothing wrong with being DAWless. If you're into playing live... not using a DAW is loads more stable. But for 95% of people who want to make electronic oriented music, the DAW is almost undefeated.
Disregarding all other things, arrangers/workstations with speakers in are easier to set up and use, therefore get more use. As I like to use keyboards in different places in the house. Sometimes in the office, sometimes in the living room etc.
Who says really you wouldn't have bought all of this along with a Montage? I have a Montage (the classic one) and also a MODX+, an SY77, a GAIA2, TR-8S, 404MkII... At some time I had a wavestate (this is very unique as you know), and an Opsix (but sold them both). I just bought a big mixer and a MIDI router. It's true, if you keep them stored you are very unlikely to really use them. They need to be ready to go at a moments notice. Otherwise you will simply use what's already connected. Really for most people buying lots of little synths is just GAS. You could anything with a Montage a TR-8S and maybe a sampler.
maybe one of the ways to divide this into what works and what doesn't is how peoples attention span is either naturally or through stress and trauma, yrs ago I loved the idea of connecting loads of gear and boxes and adapters and mixers, now Ill have a minor breakdown if something doesn't work and I get nothing done. I suspect the more I work on my life and stress, my attention span will improve. melt down will dissipate
A powerful PC is where the bulk of the budget should go. You can then run the most demanding VSTi plugins and have a world of sounds available with no compromises. And you save space. A quality MIDI controller keyboard seals the deal. And that's it: good to go.
I did this for awhile; computer software + MIDI keyboard controllers. 3 x 61-Key MIDI controllers and 1 x KMI K-Board Pro; each on a different MIDI channel; I use BlueCatAudio PatchWork as VST host / manage my patches, and KMI SoftStep2 to change patches. Using Omnisphere, Arturia V collection, and a few other software instruments. Two pedestal stands, one on the left (main stand) had two of the 61-key MIDI, the touchscreen laptop running the software mounted to the top of the stand, and the USB hub and audio interface mounted on the pedestal, the one on the right had 1 x 61-Key MIDI and the K-Board. I did it this way thinking I'd just use the main stand, but it was so small, portable and powerful I always used both stands. It works great, and relatively small when packed up and to transport...but still larger than my workstation + solo synth rig, that I will be using soon.
Considering the Mac Mini M4 goes for about €730, you can have a great setup for relatively little money these days. Add Logic Pro and still be under €1k - That's a powerful DAW setup with a ton of software instruments out of the box for less than €1k.
@@JohnHonan1 - Add something like UVI Sonic Pass (which gives you Falcon 3.0 and its entire gigantic library of expansions for around £20 a month (with regular updates and additions) and you're set. For me, the era of hardware 'outboard' gear passed a few years back. I'm fully on-board the digital DAW bandwagon and loving it. These days, for me, Falcon 3.0, Omnisphere 2.0 and my ever-trusty selection of Korg soft-synths are the keystones.
I think for you personally something like Genos would be exactly what you need. You enjoy playing and improvising, not recording or fiddling with knobs. I would understand if you had a dedicated studio where everything was permanently connected ready to jam at any time, but having it all in storage you know you will never use it. For you as a youtuber it makes sense to get and showcase all that gear, though I see no reason for storing it after reviewing collecting dust and losing resale value, I would get rid of it after each review and get something else to showcase. No need to be attached to it and think that one day maybe you will have space/time/desire to fiddle with it all, you know that you won't, and it's ok.
I personally have found that the sound coming from VSTs sounds a bit muffled on the high end. I find that I get much crisper and lively sound from my hardware synths. I used to have an old Ross (bucket brigade) flanger, and found a way to make it act more like a chorus or comb filter, and it did amazing things to my guitar sound! It died a few years ago, and I've never found a VST flanger or programmable echo, or even the modern digital hardware flangers, that comes anywhere close. I believe that all hardware has its own sound and characteristics, but convenience is also important when composing. Like everything else, it all depends on your needs. As for me, when a salesman tells me that their new digital emulation processor is just like analog, and can replace most any audio circuit, I just walk away.
I‘m kind of where you are, I have a ton of devices but I‘m now trying out going virtual with a laptop and (very light) midi keyboards. I started using Gig Performer and it‘s mindblowing how flexible this is. There was so far always a solution no matter how complex my requirements were. I will use it soon with an 80s band cover band and I can route and layer my sounds with endless possibilities and achieve it within seconds. The drawback is having to have a laptop, then you need a USB-Hub. You also need to be very careful to have your external hard drive well and securely connected to your laptop. So, like you. I‘m still exploring what will work best for me.
I recall my 1990s MIDI days when I had an Atari ST, Roland JX-10, MT-32, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Alesis NanoPiano module, Alesis Reverb, Yamaha RX-21 drum "machine", and a TASCAM 424 Portastudio cassette tape mixer / recorder. I saw the light when keyboard workstations came along. Bought a Triton Exteme 88 in 2008 and still use it - haven't found a compelling reason to replace it. The track-based sequencer works great. The only external MIDI device I use now is my laptop running Garritan CFX piano standalone app. No DAW. No VST host. Audio output from PC can be routed back to Triton via analog 3.5mm cable and mixed and recorded with any accompaniment Triton tracks. Configuration and recall is stored within the Triton sequencer songs. Old fashioned? Simple? Functional? Yes, Yes, and Yes.
My first hardware synth purchase in 30 years was a Casio CTS-500. It is a surprisingly powerful synthesizer in a compact home keyboard form factor. The competing Yamahas and Roland’s are also good. Combined with an iPad you have a ton of music making options.
There is a lot of validity to whats said here. But most serious producers I know have both something to fill workstation catagory - either a workstation itself or just a full DAW suite which obviously offers a lot more capabilities than a workstation, and then a full array of synth/sampler/drum machines/FX flavours. Because that is what they are, flavours. Without trying to be rude, this video comes across as something for people who want to stay firmly in the hobbiest/prosumer category of musician. You're not supposed to buy these instruments and set them up every time you use them and then pack them away again into a cupboard only to be used 6 months later again. They are designed to go into a music studio and be used by musicians who know how to use them. And be set up in a place where they will be used regularly. If you dont have the space, time or knowledge to use these, then of course you should buy a wokstation or a DAW and keyboard and just patter away. But if you want to become a professional electronic musician in 2024, and develop your own sound, then learning how to use synthesisers, samplers, drum machines and FX is basically essential.
This. Literally all of this. I have a bunch of 80s/90s synths on racks with rack mount units, that go into my mixer which goes into my PC. Then I have some vsts in a DAW. When I need a DW8000 sound, I go to it and use it. It’s all hooked up for when I want the particular sound. I’m not sure why this evades so many UA-camrs but you -can- have both. The middle ground seems to be finding ways to make it all one cohesive system that you pull from because you look at it like a giant artistic palate. No studio I know stores away synths and drags them out begrudgingly. They’re there for a specific purpose.
I’m with you Woody dear boy. I’ve been making music for decades, and over the last 10 or so years have found myself retreating, quite comfortably I might add, more and more into “The box” as they say. I’ve owned and worked with all manner of equipment over the years, but the hassles and headaches you speak of are all too real, and it’s just so much more enjoyable having everything in one place, like a workstation or dedicated computer set up
Exactly what I was going to say! 1) Space 2) Cables ... 3) SOFTWARES!!! That's what we have to deal with now with so many different companies trying to stand out with their own different ways of doing things. Thank goodness we still have some standards (ADSR | MIDI) that are unified across the board.
One benefit of buying lots of gear is that you can go into the shops and meet the assortment of weirdo's who work there, they seem many and varied. This is only fair because I've noticed they spend all day meeting the weirdo's who are their customers, so everybody gains.
The other point here is it’s not junk it’s just served its purpose and time to move on you simply sell it and spend the money on fresh inspiration- you and your music is the result of all your experiences so far so nothing is really junk. I just sell my gear the moment I see a thin layer of dust forming 👍
For me playing only in live bands, I am very pleased with my Yamaha Genos only. Before I had Tyros 4 and 1. I have presets for all songs stored for quick switching between songs with sound and transpose. Before a Technics KN1000 and Korg M1 😅 If I only need Piano for e.g church I have a Roland GoPiano because it is light. These stay stay in their bags. For playing at home and for my children I recently got a Korg B2 and JBL studio monitors, which sounds great with the Korg module app on tablet. Thanks and gettings 🍀👍❤️🎸🎹
Agreed, for a studio setup I gave up on all the small stuff and now just use one higher priced hardware keyboard and everything else I use my Maschine and various VSTs on a laptop.
For me I have the yamaha montage m8x, great sounds in one unit but I can understand why some opt for multiple units ,depends on what you want from playing music
Worth noting that if you want all the acoustic sounds from the Montage, Yamaha Seqtrak is currently on special offer everywhere (about £199), and provides the vast majority of those sounds.
I can really relate to this… The way I solved it, was going all-in on Elektron. That meant a more or less permanent setup, and a streamlined workflow. The key thing, is convenience… 1:10 ratios between what you actually want to do, versus what are required prerequisites, are murderous enemies to your enjoyment and can easily kill your entire passion and hobby in the first place. Your biggest issue, is the lack of a dedicated area for your gear, that can remain more or less permanently ready to go (setup according to your most enjoyable configuration) that is open for business at a flick of a few switches. In terms of “sound variety” - just have a sampler in your setup, and you are home safe for all posterity. When it comes to portability, I found a flight case that I could use as a base on top of my desk, so after unplugging a few cables, I can just pop the lid on, secure it, and be on my way. The main hassle is just the anyways unavoidable process of unplugging and reconnecting a limited number of cables (and vice versa). Mostly main outs and PSU connectors. No biggie.
Workstations are far better today, and most have some sort of VA/FM synthesis. Almost all have the facility to sample your own sounds (or load samples), so the palette is effectively limitless. But, all in all, it's what you do with it that counts - you have to find the best way to get you there.
I have a steady setup, where I have a Roland MC707 control a system8, system1, Hydrasynth and a behringer TD-3. And I do have the Luxury that they can stay where it is in the room, so it's available when needed to work on any project. Most crucial is the synths connected to the MC707, they all have the option to do program changes via MIDI, so it is possible to to jump from one project to another with all synths setup with the correct patch. I will not acquire any synths without that option, just to make sure i have to reprogram a synth every time I want to play another project. So it can be done,but it does require some synths that do speak MIDI Control fluently .
Great thought provoking vid well delivered. 👍🏼I need neither a workstation nor a sack full of synths. A sequential pro 3 se, Arthuria micro freak, iPad with cubasis 3, a handful of carefully selected soft synths and effects apps is : 1) reasonably affordable, 2) top drawer analogue and digital sounds, 3) awesome DAW for capturing, arranging. Mixing, mastering and sharing, 4) takes a small amount of drawer too since discs in the spare bedroom so can be left set up permanently, 5) expandable if I get spare cash. 6) little menu diving and more than enough controls to give hands on gratification to help facilitate creativity. I had a qs300 back in the day. Didn’t need general Midi / emulations of traditional instruments, or all the menu work. ❤
I get the rant. Specially if you have to setup everything from scratch every time it will get tedious real fast. For me the appeal is the dawless workflow for quick arrangements and sound design aspects of it. I love exploring sounds in a musical setting. The gear piece is true. I try to get the best piece available for what I'm trying to do rather than anything else or else it wont get any playtime. On the cost, yes, it can get expensive, but Ive come to see that many dawless people come at it from guitar/bass and you end up accumulating a lot of gear over the years (mixers, fx units, cables, etc..). This makes the transition less rough. It's a slow burn.
Tedious or not, I love the hardware and modular synth setups as well as the MPC workflow. Workstations take all the fun out of it for me, but I can understand how it is an amazing tool for studio producers.
I do everything with an MS-20 TR 8S and a TD-3, I also use a Tascam Model 12 mixer as an audio interface for my MacBook Pro. I make hiphop and 90s house, I use samples on the TR-8S This thing is my machine for playing loops and mixing live, it's also my tool for creating my songs from improvisations with samples and synthesis or classic sounds. In my way of making music, individual audio tracks are important, all tracks are edited and recorded simultaneously in Logic Pro. And I don't have a lot of new equipment, I don't really need it, the MS 20 already gives me all the analog sound I like and the rest I only need to play live and create songs more or less with an initial idea of an arrangement, sometimes the music asks you where to change or what sounds to mute for a better atmosphere within the song. These are the things that work for me when I record everything simultaneously. I look for the musical benefit of improvisation, letting myself go with what sounds without looking at a screen and letting myself go, knowing that if something goes wrong everything is there to edit it in the arrangement. Greetings and thanks for the video.
You have no idea how relevant this video is as I've always been a hardware person since the turn of the century until about a decade ago when my old school gear just became old and broken while my visual art became more popular until the analog resurgence and actual content teaching how to make the sounds and use the gear got me back in. But in the past few days dusting off my friends gear and merging with my own is actually overwhelming. I've spent days just figuring out how to lay them out and get them to communicate properly has been daunting. But after watching this video it helped me focus as the thought of all these different boxes working together is so much more inspiring than one machine doing everything. It's difficult for me to put into words but It feels right.
For me - its easier to pick up something used, small and interesting every 3 or 4 months and start with it immediately instead of saving for 2 or 3 years to be able to afford something like a Modx+ or Montage.
I love the workstation set-ups I've had several over the years (Triton , Karma, Emax2 etc) accompanied by multiple stand alone devices. That was when I had a dedicated area for my studio. Since getting married and having kids I don't have the space for all that. My biggest factor to my music set up now is portability. I love using my sp404mk2 as the brains and being able to sample in any sounds I want to use. It has good enough effects to tweak things how I want. I can take it anywhere. Thanks for the video!
For my "daily driver" sounds, what works is the standalone no-host-or-daw acoustic samples VTines Mk 1 for rhodes, using a split Yamaha YC controller keyboard, with lowest 12 notes midi controlling an oldy/goody Roland xp30 electric bass for left hand bass. For drums, a programmable patterns Alesis sr 18. And for B3 playing, also standalone vst, acoustic samples B5 v2 vst. First rate rhodes, bass, B3, drum sounds with minimal startup steps on the computer.
That commenter wasn't lying. That really is $6000 worth of crappity crap. I bought a Kurzweil K2700, it solved the need for an 88 key weighted keyboard, a DX7 emulator, a VA synth, and a rompler with extensive professional production-quality sounds. I also got a couple of modern synthesizers (a Summit and a Hydrasynth), and a handful of small monosynths for the occasional bass sound or sound effect.. and I don't think I spent $6k on all of that.
I know it seems like all that stuff is unnecessary. And you are right to a point. But I think there is so much to be said for having more toys in the toy box. It really helps to keep your interest up with the hobby. You can have the biggest shiniest most expensive toy in the world. But if that is your only toy how long before it doesn’t seem so shiny?
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These are the same exact reasons why I went to the workstation lifestyle and decided to go for a Kronos 7 years ago, cannot be happier and yes, the full parameter guide / manuals are harder to read than Joyce's Ulysses. Yes, it is the last piece of hardware I got and I'll only replace it with a Nautilius successor. BUT... for some mysterious reasons that will undoubtedly be familiar to most people here, my money kept going to, well, plugins and VSTs. Yesterday I got Nexus 5 for example,I got full NI and Arturia collections... and don't get me started with UAD plugins, that shit is more addictive than cocaine. I have more sound power than Mike Oldfield in 1972 yet I have not written any Tubular Bells, only bad 80s pop song covers. IN the end it's about what you can do with the stuff you already own, spending money in GAS sprees can be fun, but it's not making anyone more creative.
Roland SE-02 is a great synth. It is like a Mini Moog but with the sync switch it can sound like an Odyssey. I've used it to cover an obscure UK band from the late 70's called Magazine for a Festival. They used an Arp Odyssey. I actually own one, but with 20 songs to cover and no presets the SE-02 saved the day. I paired it to an A800pro. My point is hang onto gear because it may very well help you down the track. I remember getting rid of a Juno 60, MK2 Rhodes and an M100 + 147 leslie as no one will ever use them again!
I like having lots of hardware because each one is inspiring in its own way. The last track I made was jammed on hardware, to get the basic structure, but transferred to Ableton for final arrangement and mastering. Worked like a charm 👍
I use my workstation to guide me as to the structure of the song and roughly the instruments to make that arrangement. It is an immediate medium. However I take the final MIDI recording into the DAW and substitute sounds to make it unique. The convenience of a single keyboard set up out weighs the time I would take setting up templates etc. I find the one keyboard instantly gratifying. Some of the sounds I will keep, others I'll replace, but that's not unlike any other recording in the real world, so I'll stick with my workstation that I have had for over 25 years. Mind you, I still build up the clutter and have hundreds of sounds I never get round to using ;)
When I started my DAWless journey I was surprised how much money I spent just on cables! Also I opted to buy two sets of cables and mixers, one which is permanently installed in my studio and one set for travelling to live performances. That said, I never feel inspired by software or menu diving and need patch cables and lots of knobs to discover the sounds I eventually record in a track.
Despite that, I am a workstation type person. I like to use one tool to do it all, as much as possible. I tend to program drums separately, but I try to do everything I can on one machine before adding any guitar and vocals.
Everything you said makes sense. All good points. Personally, I prefer a "hybrid" approach which combines the best features of a lot of the various options. Most of my sounds and playing are done on individual hardware synths (both full-size and the smaller modules) in a small studio in the corner of my house. I do basic song creation, sequencing and arranging on a Novation Circuit Tracks which has a couple of internal synth engines and a drum machine, but can also drive four external synths via MIDI. I can quickly and easily sketch out ideas on the Circuit Tracks anywhere in the house, and then bring it over to the synths for a more custom sound that only the synths can produce. I use a small Zoom R4 multitrack digital audio recorder to record the various parts of the song, and I bring those digital audio files into Ableton on the PC to complete the arrangement and finish the track. At any point, I can use the individual parts of this setup just for fun, or I can combine them as described above. It's the perfect setup for how I like to create music.
Agree with this - also if you love to do sound design I think it's great to have a synth right there to work on patches whenever you get a chance - it's always just there to power up and try something.
@@dj-cyr3nt Exactly. We might turn on a synth and just do a little sound design for 45 minutes, and sometimes that patch might inspire a whole track to work on later.
@@dj-cyr3nt By the way, the DJ mixes on your UA-cam channel are incredible. The two recent ones from the last couple of days are exactly my favorite type of music. Thanks for sharing those!
@@dj-cyr3nt Your mixes are so good, I saved them to my UA-cam playlist to play again later. Subscribed too. I haven't uploaded / shared any music yet because I only recently started "mastering" my music to make it sound decent on other speakers, sound systems, and streaming platforms. (I realized without that step, they sound good on my setup, but not great elsewhere). Once I get a few tracks mastered, I'm sure I'll start posting them to my channel. Thanks again for sharing those awesome mixes.
For quick recordings and uninterrupted creativity, recording my upright piano into my phone is all I need. When I want to turn an idea into something more professional, I turn to my MIDI keyboard and Ableton Live or Logic Pro. I’ve barely scratched the surface of the software instruments they include, not to mention thousands of legacy keyboard sounds and patches in Analog Lab V that basically came free with the controller. If I want to get some ‘performance’ practise in, then Logic's AI-powered session musicians do a great job of accompaniment. As far as physical hardware goes, I hate clutter. If something is gathering dust, or if I haven’t touched it for over a year, then I sell it on and give someone else the opportunity to use it.
The secret is a central sequencer. You setup synth patches always the same - i.e. the synth gets modulation wheel to modify the sound, then the central sequencer sends the automation of the mod wheel to the synth, this way you control all of these little boxes. You could do that with NI Maschine, but i run with a Squarp Hapax, its like having Abelton Live for HW. I was tempted by montage myself, so i can understand the way you think about it - but then you have to deal with all the setup menus of the sounds, and while it allows a lot of customization, the process didnt look fun. I personally have the most fun, when i do sound design, and combine a hybrid approach i.e. i do stuff in the DAW, which i then put into a sampler (atmospheres, complex rythmic ideas) , and play over this stuff with live instruments i control from hapax. I too saw videos from modular guys operating walls of modules, but one guy said - its all about the sequencer and if you can connect with it. For a setup you have to put away every time a more compact solution surly makes sense in your case - i did rent a band room, and play with other guys, so we can meet and have fun with music, the cost can be shared between the guys, not sure if you have something around your area to do the same.
For me it was the journey to find how I like to work and what inspires creativity. As I’m moving away from keys to guitar, I think all I need is my MPC X, a workstation and Rhodes. But now I have so many hardware instruments in storage like M1, D50, DX7, Motifs and others that I really don’t use, but I’d just hate to sell them for $50. I wish I could instantly turn them into a Les Paul I have my eye on. If I’m still alive in 10 years, I only want the MPC, a Rhodes suitcase and one guitar. That’s my goal.
I noticed I had this situation too! I had a similar revelation not long ago, and I set about a new plan to reduce the number of keys and synths I have, and do everything I need...so I started to get dedicated keys for each area important to me: At home, I have a dedicated "Keyboard pit" comprised of dedicated instruments: piano (Korg Grandstage X), organ (Crumar Mojo Suitcase), synth (Arturia AstroLab), lead synth (Expressive-E Osmose). This basically covers everything major. I have no plans to upgrade to future piano, organ, or synths - Arturia V Collection has so many options already, and they keep adding more. I'm into organ, so I also have a few other organs; and few keytars. I have a current arranger, and don't plan on upgrading to a next generation; I have a current workstation, and will likely upgrade to a next generation depending on the improvements, feature set, etc. Everything else: mostly modular, semi-modular, miscellaneous. Some I know I'll regret selling. Other than a future workstation, it would have to be something unique, advanced, amazing, etc. that I can't do with what I already have. Cheers!
Hey Woody, the Mpc is pretty good and easy for syncing several synths together. As long as you press play on the mpc and you’ve set them to sync they generally all play well together.
I start with the PSR-SX920 arranger as the foundation, then add Montage to build upon, put it all into Cubase which equals no stress. I went the Native Instruments and Arturia route and too many software control issues for me.
For multi capable musicians a workstation is ideal because it has so many really excellent on board sounds. You can still play other instruments along with it and it makes working up a song really quick and easy. If I was starting out again I would have a Yamaha PSR X920 a small mixer a guitar effects unit all into a Zoom X20 recorder. Not much else would be needed to craft up a decent recording
My summer setup is my Novation SL MK3 and my iPad with AUM and some apps. Works great and it’s cheap. I also have Ableton, a push2. Lately an Mc707. Lot’s of learning curves and grinding mental gears but that’s probably good for my old brain. Great hobby and cheaper than scuba diving (also loads of fun).
I don't think it's justifiable to buy this for producing, but for live performing having different gear controlled with a keystep pro will always be best
I feel your pain! I bought groove boxes because I didn’t have a clue how to use DAW’s and there were no buttons or knobs for instant feedback… but now.. after years of buying gear and fiddling I am starting to move more into software because for one I understand more and more for two it’s a hell of a lot neater.. still… there is so much DAW stuff that it spins your head so like you I have been increasingly more interested in workstations. If I was to sell off all my hardware I’d probably be able to afford a good one and maybe have a little left over for one little groovebox gadget :)
I made that mistake once. Now I use all itb. Love love love the Korg Opsix, Wavestate & Modwave. Arturia Minifreak, Korg Collection, Roland Cloud with Novation 88 key. It’s not the best keys but not the worst either. Those vsts will put you in a hardware feel and mind. I also use Viewsonic Touchscreens to control parameters like a synth is in hardware. Nexus, Soundpaint and Omnisphere also help 😀😊
Hi Woody. Our job at Fluidshell Design is (as far as sound design is concerned) to produce complex sounds for people who don't have the time, the technical resources, the desire or the experience. Typically, our customers are those who use workstations and/or libraries for samplers/presets. The technical resources needed for this take up a lot of space, require a serious learning curve and can quickly (as you show in this video) become very expensive. It's really a different approach. As far as we're concerned, sound design is a daily job, mostly done on modular synthesizers. We're not going to talk about the price of this kind of equipment, or the time it takes to get anything out of it other than blips. If you're essentially a composer, you can also make a well-considered choice: a workstation and one or two synthesizers that are highly distinctive and complementary. The workstation can of course be replaced by a DAW.
Acquiring new synths is fun but after your space is totally packed it’s hard to figure out how to organize it all. Link them up with a midi hub, it’s really something else to have a symphony of synths vs workstation or daw. Yeah the space issue is a problem and I’m still working on solutions for that. One idea is to put them into effect peddled cases and secure all the synths with strong quality velcro. It’s expensive but could sell a few synths and get the funds for the cases etc. If you’re good at woodworking you could definitely build something to organize it all
I just switched to a fantom in the summer. Although I am super happy with it, I feel the need for more simultaneous hands on control. For jamming it is good to have, but for general music making, workstation all the way for me.
Great video. There's so much overlap with my gear these days that i'm wanting to offload a lot of gear to simplify my life and make more room in the house too, but there's a lot of fun in using each piece of gear and exploring new sounds, sometimes even in the learning process itself and that keeps things interesting.
I have a few of the pieces of the same gear that's in your collection. The TR-8S and Novation Bass Station II are great. I have those as well as the Behringer TD-3. I had the black MPC One a few months ago but recently traded it to get new new MPC KEY-37. BTW, the MPC-37 is literally a compact portable workstation keyboard, especially when you purchase the Fabric Collection for it like I have. You can sample with it, sequence with it, play keys with it and create any type of musical ideas you can come up with. The Fabric Collection gives you all the traditional sounds you would typically find in a workstation keyboard synth. I'm still amazed at how powerful and convenient this little thing is, especially considering it's size. Other small pieces of gear I have include the original MicroKorg, Novation Mininova, Arturia Drumbrute Impact, and my new Donner B1 bass synth that I bought a few months back that's still in the box I haven't opened yet. What am waiting on?!!!! As I'm typing this, I'm starting to realize I've accumulated quite a few extra pieces of gear myself similar to yours. Nevertheless, it's still fun to pull them out from time to time, even though they're not part of my main setup woth my more expensive high-end synths. With that said, I still would not be able to cough up enough money to afford an Oberheim OB-X8, or 3rd Wave, or Minimoog Model D even if I did sell my entire collection of the small pieces of gear I've just mentioned. Those high-end synths are very expensive!
I've had a Montage for about 8 years now and I feel you should know that it's more of a performance synthesizer than a workstation. It doesn't have a PC editor, and the sequencer was only added in an update after Yamaha got so many complaints from users. I'd hate to see you buy a Montage and then realize it's not the workstation you wanted.
A good video. Here’s some thoughts…. 1) You need space. Pulling the stuff out of a cupboard is an absolute nightmare. I’d never use my stuff in that situation. 2) As great a machine as the Montage is….. there are major advantages of having a lot of individual units that do specific tasks really well and easier, than one monster that does everything. For example, let’s say you want to make a phat synth bass. The Montage is well capable but you’ll never do it with the fun and ease that you will on the bass station. You’ll never program a retro drum beat as quickly on a montage as you would pushing step buttons on a TR8s. By all means you’ll get similar results but it’s a completely different user experience. 3) Some synths have their own unique sound, character and features . For example I have a Dreadbox Erebus and quite frankly no other machine I have will sound as raw and vibrant. You mentioned the Wavestate there’s no other synth on the market that can actually do everything that a Wavestate can do including soft synths(excluding Wavestate Native obviously) 4) Regarding setup. Everything should be setup in a way that you can immediately access it without cabling etc everytime. The bits I don’t have connected never get used. By all means occasionally pull apart some bits for a specific jam video etc, but generally you should have everything setup in a way that you just need to turn it on and you can hear it through your main monitors .
I use a Juno-Di and a Juno-DS for live gigs. They're lightweight romplers, very reliable and have the same sounds as the expensive workstation versions. They're also cheap on the used market so "wreck it, buy a new one" as Biggie would say.
A patchbay, UMC-1820, and Conductive Labs MRCC in a 4U rack, plus big USB hub, have made the business of connecting different configurations a whole lot easier for me, although that's about $700 to get set up. I have various length cable bundles (USB, dual TRS, dual MIDI) wrapped in Alex Tech tubing mesh sleeves coming out of that so I have MIDI in/out, stereo audio in/out, and USB ready to go for each piece of gear I bring out.
I don’t want any synths that are sold at guitar center. The montage keys are trash. The most expensive thing on a synth is the sheet metal cutting, bending, Anodizing, polish, powder coat and silk screening. These toy synths offer none of things. They sound pretty good, but that’s only because technology doubles every 18 months making everything smaller as time goes by. As far as dawless and daw you’re gonna end up at the computer at the end of the day anyway.
Nice video! Also shows how the industry is unable to come up with a single, modern and most simple technical standard for modern times. For example: usb-c or Lan connector only, audio and midi transfer are a requirement, and simple hub devices for that. Power over usb-c as a bonus.
Started with software instruments and have added hardware pieces over time. In practice I start ideas with the hardware setup and use the DAW for the finishing touches. I still used Korg Gadget on the iPad but nowerdays I mostly only use it as a midi sequencer to control various hardware synths. The only limitation is that it doesn’t implement midi clock properly (it can sync to an external clock but it can’t send a clock signal which is a bit annoying when used with a TR-6S / MC-101 which both have a pretty good midi implementation). The only issue with hardware is that at some point you run out of inputs on the mixer, currently have to daisy chain the S-1 into the Reface DX’s aux input. A mixer with more inputs is high on my list for upgrades. I have my eye on a Tascam LM-8ST to replace my current small Behringer mixer that I can then daisy chain to get further inputs.
When it comes to DAW vs DAWless setups in the studio, I've opted for both! I've tried one or the other but the problem I have is that starting songs on the computer is boring but finishing songs on hardware is painful, so now I start my songs on hardware and then finish them on the computer. It's the best of both worlds. The trick is being able to seamlessly move between the two, which isn't that hard these days when DAWs like Ableton have the Push and Move and Note. My DAWless setup isn't even truly DAWless. It's running into a mixer app on the iPad. My DAW setup has expensive hardware. I've got an Apollo interface. Those things cost just as much as synths, not to mention all the plugins. We've blurred the lines between the two camps so much that they're not even separate camps anymore. All that matters in the end is that you are able to express yourself as an artist. Figure out whichever way works best for you and produce something with it. After a certain point, it's time to turn off GearTube and make some music!
This!
Agreed
This is such an obvious answer that I think this whole daw vs dawless debate is just done by UA-camrs trying to generate views.
Get a physical instrument that is fun to play and write songs on…software instrument the rest
Yeah, totally I agree. I was trying to go DAWless, but I ended up figuring out that I just love to use hardware instead of VSTs. I realized I don’t mind using daws for recording, arranging, and mixing my songs. I just get turned off by using VSTs.
I also prefer to jam live instead of DJ, so hardware is still the way to go for live performances. DAW/Hardware combo set up is the best for sure.
I have done the opposite. Start on the computer then port to the synth for live performance
I had all outboard gear when I was younger, Atari ST, Korg M1, D50, the odd analogue keyboard and samplers etc., but I'm now all in the DAW. I just love the instant recall and multiple instances of instruments/FX and no wires all over the place. Also, your wife doesn't have a clue of your sneaky purchases 😅
If you have just one machine and make all the music with that, the music will sound like that particular set of sounds from one source. But if you pick several machines of your interest and explore them, it will be part of the creative process to combine sounds from your own selecttion of sound sources, so it will potentially be more diverse and unique combination of sounds. And I think it's also good to explore different stuff to unlock creative ideas..
I agree 100 percent!
Exactly!!.... Well said.🍺
That's just not true at all. There are very very few things that you just can't do without reaching for another machine.
Thats why samplers exist
@@petevineaux Getting something 'done' is not the same thing as creating interesting music people want to hear. That seems the difference in mentality that makes a workstation user versus a synth person. Granted, one is typically altogether more productive than the other however.
I've had my Montage for about 5 years now, it's a beast, and there's no sound in the world you can't make with it, bought it second hand as it was FAR too expensive. However, 2 years ago I got the Akai MPC key 61, I wasn't a part of that whole MPC groove, chopping, cooking, looping, sample-reusing kind of culture that follows MPC, but the Key 61 was a workstation game-changer for me. You just turn it on, you can have a lot of VSTs in it, it updates from the internet directly, and they've even released a FREE MPC 3 complete composer (built right in) for it now. And I have to admit, I've hardly used any of my other gear.
You swith it on, in 5 minutes you've produced a basic beat, in 30 minutes you have a completely new song ready to upload for the world to enjoy with you. It's the best workstation I've ever had. I'm the same age as you bud, and I'll say this - I totally feel you for all those dinky lil minisynths and gadgets the industry is releasing for nostalgics and GAS folks everywhere, but they never end up satisfying you like a good workstation does. It's just sit down and produce, and I like it that way.
I guess it also depends a lot on the style of music that you’re making. 😉
I own workstations, more specifics synths, and the DAW + VST instruments on a laptop.
I don don’t own any MPC, and I looked recently at the MPC keys (61 and 37), and I was not convinced that it would be right for me (I may be wrong).
All the videos that I watched seem to focus a lot on getting so,e results quickly (starting of with the beats), but we’re very underwhelming as whole source of sounds for creating other music genres.
Maybe this is due to several years of using Cubase, but if I only want to make beats and add bass and other more “generic” instruments, I can do it very quickly.
I can’t say if it’s faster or slower than in the MPC Keys, but that’s certainly not a long task.
I rarely use samples (I mean, I use a lot of sampled/rom synths, but that’s different), and if I’d had to guess where I spend my time the most, it may be on the articulation of certain VST instruments (like strings, guitars, etc), which I don’t know if the MPC is able to do. (?)
So I would like to ask you what’s the music genre that you do the most, and you end up using the sounds of the MPC as the final result (like something that you would publish on a “record” / Spotify, etc), or more like something to carve the foundation for your songs.
I guess that this might be somehow specific depending on the music genre, but my question comes from not finding any finished song done entirely (or mostly) on the MPC Keys, with vocals added later, etc?
Thank you. 🙂
@@rogerioamorim8057 The MPC can run VST's like Cubase, it's kind of like an integrated DAW.
When I bought mine, it came with its own Strings VST, and they're fantastic, then there is the Hype and Fabric XL, it also has OPx-4 (an FM synth) etc.
The music types I make is mostly live-play directly on the piano keys, I use the pads to make the rythm, and just add sounds by pressing next-track etc. It's fairly straight forward and zero menu diving.
I make all kinds of music from Classical sounding adventure type of music to electronics music, all kinds of stuff.
The MPC can also act as a controller for your entire studio such as remote controlling and using your mixer as a sound card, it can control 8 CV analog ports, and both old school DIN-based MIDI to USB based midi. It's crazy versatile.
I love all my "GAS" toys, but having an all in one, that you can save and recall as a preset/project is pretty cool too.
I have an MPD One, that I rarely use, because it is too complicated for me to enjoy. I spend too much time trying to figure it out, and I forget what I was trying to do, and loose my inspiration. I'm hoping the new ver 3 OS will be better.
For me, the ElektronSyntakt, and Digitakt 2, are my favorite groove boxes, and the Elektron Workflow allows me to create fun stuff, without getting to bogged down in the process.
@TheScreamingFrog916 I almost didn't touch my MPC One for two years, but I'm beginning to enjoy it now that I'm getting used to the workflow. It's can do a lot of things for a standalone device
ModX is half the price of a montage but contains all the same sounds and functions as Montage and ModX+ even has full polyphony of the montage in the FM engine.
I like the physical interfaces, that we have lost using modern touchscreen devices and mouse.
True, I feel the same way. But there are some iPad apps that use that interface in a unique way, that would be impossible to do on hardware.
So I love both.
Instead of always having to haul all the gear when you want to use them, try what happens when you dedicate a small free space right next to your workstation synth. You can put a single piece of extra gear there quickly and easily without hassle. Hook it up and use it with your workstation. You could have a lot of fun that way, changing the gear quickly and easily whenever the inspiration strikes.
Keyboard guy vs Synth guy.
I'm definitely a synth guy. So no workstation.
And it's a pleasure to have multiple instruments.
When I started my musical journey, i chose an all in one synth JV 880 (8 parts). But using the same instrument was frustrating. I started to get other synths like a Bass Station 1 and discovered that it was what i like.
Now i probably own more than 50 synths (most of them are small desktop modules). It's the pleasure of the instrument, their sounds, their shapes, their specificities.
But I'm not into the DAWless thing. I started with an Alesis MMT8 as sequencer in early 90s, and I'm happy that DAWs exist since then.
The Bass Station 1 was a game changer for me. First taste of analog gear, immediately sold my JD990 and never looked back.
Same bro.😎
All totally valid points! However, for me it’s just about the ‘fun’ of having tons of gear with each their own characteristics and sound qualities and just ‘have at it’. It’s what I do with several years of classical piano training, being bored out of my mind with that (or just not good enough) and dreaming of making the ethereal soundscapes of a Jarre, Kitaro, Schulze, Tomita and more, all the ‘grandfathers of Synth’ -for myself while I tenaciously, but bored, hammered away for hours on end to get the classical pieces my tutors deemed ‘necessary’ into my little brain and fingers.
(Don’t get me wrong. Now I’m older, I appreciate those years. They made “playing keys” second nature, helped by a musical ear and solfeggio burnt in my brain.)
I’m not a professional musician. Absolutely not. My siblings went that way. I didn’t. I got into ICT by accident.. :P I play purely for my own enjoyment. Having said all of that, I dó have the luxury of a space where I can leave everything where it is, connected and all. Having to dust it all every now and then is the only drawback. :P Added to that, I’... Ehmm.. ‘can afford it’ so to speak. Though, ‘GAS’ ìs my weakness, admittedly :D. Then again, I’m none too bothered if I have to sell stuff if I need the space, or am just bored with a certain machine.
On the other hand, I do my ‘practicing’ and deconstructing of music that I want to play ‘because’, on.. yup…. A simple DGX670 that’s just standing there in the sitting room.
In the end it’s just a ‘hobby’ for me. Other people have tons of LEGO, or eye-wateringly expensive 1/6 scale action figures, or dolls, if You will, or die-cast cars that cost as much as a real one. Is it useful? Not to ‘the greater world, no. It’s all about the enjoyment one gets, I guess. A ‘professional’ looks at stuff as ‘investment’, a hobbyist like me looks at it as ‘enjoyment’ and if family and friends ask for a little music, they can get it, but that’s as far as it goes for me.
This is very much my feeling too.
When asking these kind of questions, the answer is almost always: Workflow. Finding a workflow that works for you for any specific task is the most important factor. For myself, I have four groups of instruments for different purposes: Guitars and acoustic instruments for non-electronic music. Yamaha Refaces for self-contained, turn-on-and-play keyboard playing anywhere. A few analog synths just to have the experience of analog. MIDI controllers and my iPad for recording. It occurs to me that one universal problem with most electronic music hardware is that MIDI settings are always buried. That really inhibits workflow unless you're just using a single bit of kit all by itself. (And even my Refaces can be more fun together when wired up and configured, but the "power on while holding a key you'll have to look up in the manual" configuration for all but the DX, the silly Reface-only dongle for MIDI, and the lack of MIDI Thru hampers doing that without pre-planning.) Someone should make a line of gear where all the MIDI settings are considered first class features with clear, front-panel controls and with the full trinity of MIDI ports. I think a company like-for example-Donner-could do some disruption that way.
Really insightful - I think there's a difference between a performance and a producer that will make your setup look very different. My workflow is multi-track recording and writing flow, but you may start with performance as a musician and build around that. You may enjoy the flow of building in real time and recording as you go, or maybe you start with a reference track and figure out an arrangement. You might begin with just a vocal track, or melody, or something like that. Perhaps playing a riff or chord progression inspires something.
Elektron
The problem with having lots of synths isn’t necessarily the cost of the units, it’s having them all hooked up at the same time. The cabling, stands, desks, mixer inputs and actual space is where the real cost is.
agreed, a high cost in money, space and TIME.
@@aloharay Time isn't so much an issue because I like to do it.
There is lots of creativity in connecting different pieces of gears up. I usually feel my setup gets 'stale' after a while so I love having lots of different pieces of gear I can connect together in a new way.
This might be the wrong channel for my story but my house was badly damaged by a hurricane. I lived in a hotel room for ten months while repairs were being done. Out of necessity I moved my music workflow from hardware to software. Now it's all on my MacBook Pro and my iPad. I enjoy the freedom. I'm OG and started my career in the 1970's with a Hammond M3 and a Rhodes stage piano. Times have changed and I've tried to stay current.
Yeah, there must be millions of patches at this point with all the plugins I have available. If I learned just a little more sound design I could probably recreate any sound on the mac or find a sample library for it, or just record it. There should be a competition for this in the Olympics or something, to recreate a sound on the fly you haven't heard before within a time limit LOL
@@dj-cyr3nt man I could dig an Olympic beat making competition. There's a plugin for all the old analog synths. Great idea.
Good to hear you survived and kept making music. I’m old school but I use my synth midi out to my pc with cat to get more voices and choices. I use two old condenser mics but output them to my Pod usb to my pc to get noise removal and compression and eq settings I can’t get otherwise. At least not affordable. Whatever you can be creative with old and new.
Great discussion. I built a dedicated home studio with lots of modular gear and Native Instruments Maschine as a sound bank. I lost it all in a house disaster and am back with Roland MV1, JDxi, and a Boss RC 505. I've gone deep into those which is discipline to go deep and keep using **THESE ONLY**, using their limits as creative benefits. Whenever I get G.A.S. I come back to my workflow, and print the sections of the manuals with a highlighter pen to keep me learning.
Gear Acquisition Syndrome is definitely a thing, but at our age I feel a $6,000 collection of instruments isn't a big deal. Not if you consider it's only roughly $200 per year for each year of our adult lives. I spend far more each year just keeping my car running, and I don't drive a lot.
Plus a lot of music gear tends to hold its value, to a degree. Decent guitar pedals, classic synths, etc. So it's not money down the drain. It can feel like a waste if it ends up sitting on the shelf but sometimes it's just nice to know it's there when you feel like using it.
Yeah I mean, how much do you spend if you're into golf or a hunter? I bet you could get up there on that as well lol
One single ticket to one single concert on the current Taylor Swift tour costs more than a Sequential Take 5
@@grandfallooner41 Zing! This is a perfect place for me to make a slightly unrelated comment that this is why I support smaller acts that I really like and they are really talented and work hard. Those that perform at smaller venues and even with fees and taxes and all, the ticket is like $37. Big acts get enough money, I love to support the "underdogs".
Talking about synths, I "splurged" on a front row center for $100 for Tangerine Dream, and with Steve Roach as guest, the whole band in front of me, it was a great experience. You do not get the feeling of being just one in 40,000 in the crowd.
Let's think about that. HALF of the original Queen costs $800, and "working class hero" Bruce Springsteen costs $1,500.
Support the underdogs, and buy a synth, you will feel much more accomplished!
I get your point. I just sold my beloved hydrasynth and microfreak and used the money to pay for most of my new MPC Key 37, which is effectively a mini workstation. Life is just a lot simpler and I can focus on writing music instead of combining different bits of kit and I can even plug in a mike or guitar.
My Behringer model D and Roland MC-101 are probably going soon as well…
The more gear we have, the less music we make. Fact. There are DOZENS of UA-cam channels that “teach” you how to make music but all they do is twisting knobs on a simple arpeggio, no actual keyboard players. Even JM Jarre went modern and all vast and ditched most of his analogs…How I miss the ‘70s….
I have a studio full of synths. 90% of the time I'm using my Montage M and my Hydrasynth Deluxe.
I went the route of buying a Korg NTS-1 for £100, filling it with custom oscillators (including two drum machines) and custom effects then plugging it into an IQaudio Codec Zero ADC/DAC on a Raspberry Pi5 and running the free Ardour7 DAW. I control the NTS-1 from the Pi desktop with Oscar RC's NTS-1 Web Editor app that includes an excellent sequencer. The beauty of the NTS-1 is that it also has an analogue input allowing you to use the effects section as a stereo effects pedal if you have line level signals available. I use that to add effects to a PO-32 Tonic that's synced up to the NTS-1. My setup is sod all use for live performances, but great for putting together multitrack noodlings at home.
I forgot to say, Oscar RC's app allows you to save out and load an infinite number of patches as well as storing an instantly accessible bank of up to 16 patches. Each patch can be any possible combination of oscillator and effects settings, so that's potentially billions of different sounds at your fingertips. There's also a "Randomize" feature that randomises all NTS-1 oscillator and effects selection and parameters at the click of a button. You can then manually tweak whatever pops up to tailor it into something more to your liking and save that out as a patch. It's the kind of flexibility I wished the NTS-1 had out-of-the-box, and now it has it via Oscar RC's NTS-1 Web Editor.
You can also have this discussion for many other topics. Should I use an classical bike or an e-bike? Should I buy a car or rather use a car sharing service? And, when I buy a car, rather a modern car or a classic car? For me, the answer is, it depends on what do you want to achieve. If you want to use a bike to simply get from point A to point B , an e-bike should be the better choice. If you're enjoy screwing and tinkering on mechanics, you'd rather buy a classic car. If you want to produce electronic music, you get on very well with a Arturia Keylab 88 MKII and Analog Lab. Or any other DAW/ production suite. Developing a synth setup containing single components is about exploring electronics, to enjoy working with limits, to experiment with effect chains, routings, sequencers and all the guff. I've learned over the years that this kind of things really bring me joy and fun and I don't regret a single purchase (OK there were some fails but I've sold everything that didn't work for me ).
Work station guy. Gig in two tribute bands. Korg 01W and Hammond XK-2, Mackie mixer, JBL Eon speaker. Yamaha ModX7+ is my backup. Sometimes I’ll set it up and have all 3 on stage because I like the Rhodes sounds it has. I practice on a Rhodes 88 soft shell that’s in perfect condition.
Most people don't buy so much small stuff in such a short time like you did. There lies the problem.
Exactly. You should start with only the absolute essentials, and then add stuff over time as you discover your specific needs that your current setup cannot handle.
Yes true, there is no right setup, there is only a right one for each person, and you wont know until you find a need / gap or areas you need to boost up.
Also, there is a reason that DAW based production took off, it is economical in comparison.
However, there is a third path after DAW and DAW-less, and that is Multi-track (or loopers). By recording parts as you go, you reduce the range of equipment needed, down to 1 or 2 synths really. Take those stems and mix those down, you could even record the fx for each onto another stem, reusing the fx unit for each stem. Or more realistically, take it into your PC and chop the files up.
@@gdr189 Yes thats a great way to arrange, produce, and perform. The Multitrack / Many Looper workflow is one I’ve considered too in contrast to a DAW like Ableton/Studio One, or going
DAW-less etc. 👍
Your arguments for a workstation had me doubting myself with your elegant reasoning. But first we must divide studio recording and live play, I would NEVER have my synth studio for live play. The only instrument I play live is solo acoustic piano, and I don't bring it with me, whatever is on stage that is what I have to make sound good. So let's just talk about studio recording. I have 17 musical electronic instruments for orchestrating songs. Each one hand picked and researched for years before buying. Each one has their job to do. Next, I only record Vangelis style; the entire song in one take using as many as 17 instruments. I have a floor full or pedals to control them all, plus very precise MIDI connections too. Then when both my hands and feet are busy playing music, I use powerful pattern sequencers (not stupid step sequencers) to add in what all my limbs cannot do.
So why not in the box or a workstation? All the songs I compose have custom sounds I design on the synths, custom rhythms too, just for that song. Sound design on a workstation is a pain, menus take 10x longer or more to design a new sound than a knob per function (NPF) synth. Plus, I enjoy sound designing but hate it on menus. The other reason is my studio is far more versatile than one or a bunch or workstations; with monaural and poly analog, digital polys, the perfect sampler, a high-end digital piano, and a sequencer no workstation has. I have 20 floor pedals to control my studio, you're lucky to have 3 pedals on a workstation. And as you said, each instrument is absolutely perfect for its job. I don't run out of polyphony either, the last workstation I bought when I took it out of the box and played the first patch like a piano it ran out of notes even with 256.
Know your equipment, I am getting old, 67 years now, and to keep my brain sharp I continue to challenge myself with a deep understanding of every one of my 17 instruments. This year I took on Kurzweil VAST, and a new arranger which I use to write my own custom styles for each song, very challenging indeed, but I never give up even when there seems to be no hope. So, I spend years getting to know my synths and already know which synth I am going to use to make the sound in my head. I can design the sound in my head too, before sitting down to actually make it. That can only be done with deep understanding. Half my time is education and learning and the other half making music, so instead of watching movies or playing games, I watch instructional videos and read manuals.
The studio never changes, once fine-tuned for position of instruments and routing, it doesn't change. This way I know without marking anything which mixer channel each synth is, which effects is routed, which keyboard is remotely MIDI controlling another. Each instrument is position perfectly (ergonomically) for both programming and performance, so no body contortions and pain. The joy of recording an entire orchestration live in one take, without multi-tracking, is difficult to explain, this Vangelis style of recording is all I do now, and all I want to do! Can you imagine the power of being in the middle of a complex orchestration and controlling it all, every note is in the moment and fully immersed. I am in Heaven during the recording/performance, and I hope it shows in the songs.
I've been to electronic type of concerts for years, and I don't think I've seen one that didn't use DAT or some other way of performing, but some sytnhs on stage for manual use, or maybe in some cases, just for show.
Kudos for the dedication. I resonate with your approach. Only one question. Why not multitracking? Why not give yourself the chance to go and correct something in the recording if needed?
@@kostisv I multi-tracked for overdubbing for decades, it was how it was done. I still multi-track but all the tracks are filled at the same time, I have a 32 channel analog mixer subbed down to 4 stereo channels that input into a hardware 24 track SD recorder. I have been working with 8 inputs and 8 tracks, but my old Zoom R24 is getting old and may replace it with a 20 track/input Zoom SD, then I will much more control over the one-take recording for mixdown. This Vangelis style one-take recording allows me to be in the moment and fully immersed in the song, all emotions are captured.
I've been on this journey. Settled for an Akai MPC Live 2. I want something I can just switch on and use in the living room. Battery and built in speakers (which are decent enough sounding) mean no faffing about with wires. With the latest MPC 3 Beta it's improved quite a lot over the v2 with a linear arranger. However, the Akai Force is better (I have one of these too), the clip workflow suits me better as do all the buttons. It's just that requires plugging in and wearing headphones.
I think this is a great approach - you can sample or record from other hardware as you go, reduces the need to have everything hooked up all at once with audio/midi cables and patch bays and mixers. At some point I want to do LoFi tracks and use a sampler and field recorder for inspiration.
MPCs also have a great set of Vsts, plus they are nearly unlimited once you start manipulating samples. Such a wonderful little all in one box that gets you off the computer and away from the habits and distractions that come with that.
My problem with using my MPC One, is the steep learning curve, and amount of fiddling it requires, to do even the simplest of tasks.
I really want to like it, because it is so powerful, and has lots of hardware features that make using it with external keyboards, Midi devices, and Eurorack, a possibility.
But every time I sit down with it to make some tracks, I get distracted and tired by the workflow, so I loose my inspiration and give up.
Still have it, but it is collecting dust.
I am hoping that the new Ver. 3 firmware update, will make it a better experience.
Meanwhile I got into the Elektron devices and have found them much easier for me to have fun with.
Started with the Model Cycles, then got the Syntakt for more features, and now have added a Digitakt 2, which is amazing.
I think if you have the time and money, it is best to try everything, to see what clicks with your brain, and personal style of music creation.
For me, just reading and looking at UA-cam videos, was not enough to decide.
I had to try them for myself to really know.
I have the Live 2 and the Force as well. Fantastic machines!
I’m a workstation guy, but I can appreciate having guaranteed polyphony dedicated to each of your desktop devices, instead of hoping you have enough in a workstation between all your tracks.
I get a lot of inspiration from different gear I own. Every piece is unique and adds something that cannot be replaced by anything else. Good if you are happy with a generic workstation. But that is not for me.
I've tried different approaches over the years. My current method is using a workstation and adding additional sounds, where necessary from hardware module synths...like using condiments. Much easier than hooking up 15 different units. Tried the DAW and plugin approach for a while but never really bonded with it emotionally. There's a real advantage to the VST approach, though and I believe that's the direction that most pros will adopt. For now, I enjoy the physicality of hardware for sound generation and use the computer to record and manipulate audio tracks. I've also learned to only buy new gear if it can give me something I can't get from my current stuff. Nobody needs five different virtual analog devices, for instance. At that point, you're just a collector, not a synthesist. Some of my best work came from taking things away from the mix instead of adding.
I just bought Arturias Vintage softsynth, including arp2600, yamaha cs-80, prophet v, cmi, synclavier, ms-20.. $300 on the black friday setup for my mac mini m4.. Arturia offered me $50 crossgrades to FX 5 and pigments. Yes if you get the $300 vintage synth you get all their effects modules for $50 extra.. and pigments their multifaceted synth.. . I'm shopping for a slider/knob controller..
check out faderfox
I’ve found my minimalistic setup the most convenient. It’s always on and ready to go:
MacBook with Logic, MIDI keyboard, USB/Thunderbolt hub, audio interface, microphones, headphones, and the several guitars. 🎉
Do not fully agree, altough this is a valuable consideration. I have Circuit Tracks connected with a couple of HW Gears and it works fine. Full dawless. You cannot do everything of course but live jams are ok.
I think if you have a bunch of stuff, you gotta just buckle down and take a few days to learn how to set them all up together in a space where you don’t have to switch things in and out. I did this with my setup: MPC One, SP404mk2, Ableton Move, Teenage Engineering KO2, launchkey 37, and MacBook Pro using Ableton. Everything is set up and Now I just turn it all on and run it through Ableton and make music straight into Ableton. No extra cables or cords or machines stored away…just exactly what I need and nothing more. I think there’s a lot of restraint needed to keep a workflow that doesn’t swallow you alive with options. Especially when there’s so many cool things coming out. Restraint LOL
DAW is fine for me. I started with Cubase and a lot of gear in the 90s. Now I can do way more than I could with all that gear but with a nice, minimal set up and a fraction of the cost.
I grew up in the era where DAWs weren't a thing and then they were only affordable to a handful of musicians. Having a computer sequencer and a MIDI interface like an Opcode Studio 3 was a bit better. Now that all of your instruments and mixing can happen inside a $600 laptop, I find DAWs to be so convenient. They have total recall. You have an unlimited number of instances of the same piece of kit (providing you have enough CPU to host it). There's nothing wrong with being DAWless. If you're into playing live... not using a DAW is loads more stable. But for 95% of people who want to make electronic oriented music, the DAW is almost undefeated.
Disregarding all other things, arrangers/workstations with speakers in are easier to set up and use, therefore get more use. As I like to use keyboards in different places in the house. Sometimes in the office, sometimes in the living room etc.
Who says really you wouldn't have bought all of this along with a Montage? I have a Montage (the classic one) and also a MODX+, an SY77, a GAIA2, TR-8S, 404MkII... At some time I had a wavestate (this is very unique as you know), and an Opsix (but sold them both). I just bought a big mixer and a MIDI router. It's true, if you keep them stored you are very unlikely to really use them. They need to be ready to go at a moments notice. Otherwise you will simply use what's already connected. Really for most people buying lots of little synths is just GAS. You could anything with a Montage a TR-8S and maybe a sampler.
maybe one of the ways to divide this into what works and what doesn't is how peoples attention span is either naturally or through stress and trauma, yrs ago I loved the idea of connecting loads of gear and boxes and adapters and mixers, now Ill have a minor breakdown if something doesn't work and I get nothing done. I suspect the more I work on my life and stress, my attention span will improve. melt down will dissipate
A powerful PC is where the bulk of the budget should go. You can then run the most demanding VSTi plugins and have a world of sounds available with no compromises. And you save space. A quality MIDI controller keyboard seals the deal. And that's it: good to go.
I did this for awhile; computer software + MIDI keyboard controllers.
3 x 61-Key MIDI controllers and 1 x KMI K-Board Pro; each on a different MIDI channel; I use BlueCatAudio PatchWork as VST host / manage my patches, and KMI SoftStep2 to change patches. Using Omnisphere, Arturia V collection, and a few other software instruments.
Two pedestal stands, one on the left (main stand) had two of the 61-key MIDI, the touchscreen laptop running the software mounted to the top of the stand, and the USB hub and audio interface mounted on the pedestal, the one on the right had 1 x 61-Key MIDI and the K-Board. I did it this way thinking I'd just use the main stand, but it was so small, portable and powerful I always used both stands.
It works great, and relatively small when packed up and to transport...but still larger than my workstation + solo synth rig, that I will be using soon.
Considering the Mac Mini M4 goes for about €730, you can have a great setup for relatively little money these days. Add Logic Pro and still be under €1k - That's a powerful DAW setup with a ton of software instruments out of the box for less than €1k.
@@JohnHonan1 - Add something like UVI Sonic Pass (which gives you Falcon 3.0 and its entire gigantic library of expansions for around £20 a month (with regular updates and additions) and you're set. For me, the era of hardware 'outboard' gear passed a few years back. I'm fully on-board the digital DAW bandwagon and loving it.
These days, for me, Falcon 3.0, Omnisphere 2.0 and my ever-trusty selection of Korg soft-synths are the keystones.
I think for you personally something like Genos would be exactly what you need. You enjoy playing and improvising, not recording or fiddling with knobs. I would understand if you had a dedicated studio where everything was permanently connected ready to jam at any time, but having it all in storage you know you will never use it.
For you as a youtuber it makes sense to get and showcase all that gear, though I see no reason for storing it after reviewing collecting dust and losing resale value, I would get rid of it after each review and get something else to showcase. No need to be attached to it and think that one day maybe you will have space/time/desire to fiddle with it all, you know that you won't, and it's ok.
I personally have found that the sound coming from VSTs sounds a bit muffled on the high end. I find that I get much crisper and lively sound from my hardware synths.
I used to have an old Ross (bucket brigade) flanger, and found a way to make it act more like a chorus or comb filter, and it did amazing things to my guitar sound! It died a few years ago, and I've never found a VST flanger or programmable echo, or even the modern digital hardware flangers, that comes anywhere close.
I believe that all hardware has its own sound and characteristics, but convenience is also important when composing. Like everything else, it all depends on your needs.
As for me, when a salesman tells me that their new digital emulation processor is just like analog, and can replace most any audio circuit, I just walk away.
I‘m kind of where you are, I have a ton of devices but I‘m now trying out going virtual with a laptop and (very light) midi keyboards. I started using Gig Performer and it‘s mindblowing how flexible this is. There was so far always a solution no matter how complex my requirements were. I will use it soon with an 80s band cover band and I can route and layer my sounds with endless possibilities and achieve it within seconds. The drawback is having to have a laptop, then you need a USB-Hub. You also need to be very careful to have your external hard drive well and securely connected to your laptop. So, like you. I‘m still exploring what will work best for me.
Honestly I always get a lot of great creative energy from Reason. Yeah it’s old, but it does everything and sounds great to me
i fully agree, the simplest the better, my current setup is Digitakt 2, OB6 and Prophet Rev2, just that. I sold everything else.
Creating a song takes years of study which is why a musician/engineer can do wonders with a mixer, effects and a couple workstations
I recall my 1990s MIDI days when I had an Atari ST, Roland JX-10, MT-32, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Alesis NanoPiano module, Alesis Reverb, Yamaha RX-21 drum "machine", and a TASCAM 424 Portastudio cassette tape mixer / recorder. I saw the light when keyboard workstations came along. Bought a Triton Exteme 88 in 2008 and still use it - haven't found a compelling reason to replace it. The track-based sequencer works great. The only external MIDI device I use now is my laptop running Garritan CFX piano standalone app. No DAW. No VST host. Audio output from PC can be routed back to Triton via analog 3.5mm cable and mixed and recorded with any accompaniment Triton tracks. Configuration and recall is stored within the Triton sequencer songs. Old fashioned? Simple? Functional? Yes, Yes, and Yes.
My first hardware synth purchase in 30 years was a Casio CTS-500. It is a surprisingly powerful synthesizer in a compact home keyboard form factor. The competing Yamahas and Roland’s are also good. Combined with an iPad you have a ton of music making options.
There is a lot of validity to whats said here. But most serious producers I know have both something to fill workstation catagory - either a workstation itself or just a full DAW suite which obviously offers a lot more capabilities than a workstation, and then a full array of synth/sampler/drum machines/FX flavours. Because that is what they are, flavours.
Without trying to be rude, this video comes across as something for people who want to stay firmly in the hobbiest/prosumer category of musician. You're not supposed to buy these instruments and set them up every time you use them and then pack them away again into a cupboard only to be used 6 months later again. They are designed to go into a music studio and be used by musicians who know how to use them. And be set up in a place where they will be used regularly.
If you dont have the space, time or knowledge to use these, then of course you should buy a wokstation or a DAW and keyboard and just patter away. But if you want to become a professional electronic musician in 2024, and develop your own sound, then learning how to use synthesisers, samplers, drum machines and FX is basically essential.
This. Literally all of this. I have a bunch of 80s/90s synths on racks with rack mount units, that go into my mixer which goes into my PC. Then I have some vsts in a DAW. When I need a DW8000 sound, I go to it and use it. It’s all hooked up for when I want the particular sound. I’m not sure why this evades so many UA-camrs but you -can- have both. The middle ground seems to be finding ways to make it all one cohesive system that you pull from because you look at it like a giant artistic palate. No studio I know stores away synths and drags them out begrudgingly. They’re there for a specific purpose.
I’m with you Woody dear boy. I’ve been making music for decades, and over the last 10 or so years have found myself retreating, quite comfortably I might add, more and more into “The box” as they say. I’ve owned and worked with all manner of equipment over the years, but the hassles and headaches you speak of are all too real, and it’s just so much more enjoyable having everything in one place, like a workstation or dedicated computer set up
I only spend my free time on a computer or making music, but for some reason unknown to me, I refuse to mix the two. Great video!!
Exactly what I was going to say!
1) Space
2) Cables ...
3) SOFTWARES!!!
That's what we have to deal with now with so many different companies trying to stand out with their own different ways of doing things. Thank goodness we still have some standards (ADSR | MIDI) that are unified across the board.
One benefit of buying lots of gear is that you can go into the shops and meet the assortment of weirdo's who work there, they seem many and varied.
This is only fair because I've noticed they spend all day meeting the weirdo's who are their customers, so everybody gains.
The other point here is it’s not junk it’s just served its purpose and time to move on you simply sell it and spend the money on fresh inspiration- you and your music is the result of all your experiences so far so nothing is really junk. I just sell my gear the moment I see a thin layer of dust forming 👍
For me playing only in live bands, I am very pleased with my Yamaha Genos only. Before I had Tyros 4 and 1. I have presets for all songs stored for quick switching between songs with sound and transpose. Before a Technics KN1000 and Korg M1 😅 If I only need Piano for e.g church I have a Roland GoPiano because it is light. These stay stay in their bags. For playing at home and for my children I recently got a Korg B2 and JBL studio monitors, which sounds great with the Korg module app on tablet. Thanks and gettings 🍀👍❤️🎸🎹
Agreed, for a studio setup I gave up on all the small stuff and now just use one higher priced hardware keyboard and everything else I use my Maschine and various VSTs on a laptop.
For me I have the yamaha montage m8x, great sounds in one unit but I can understand why some opt for multiple units ,depends on what you want from playing music
Worth noting that if you want all the acoustic sounds from the Montage, Yamaha Seqtrak is currently on special offer everywhere (about £199), and provides the vast majority of those sounds.
I can really relate to this… The way I solved it, was going all-in on Elektron. That meant a more or less permanent setup, and a streamlined workflow. The key thing, is convenience… 1:10 ratios between what you actually want to do, versus what are required prerequisites, are murderous enemies to your enjoyment and can easily kill your entire passion and hobby in the first place.
Your biggest issue, is the lack of a dedicated area for your gear, that can remain more or less permanently ready to go (setup according to your most enjoyable configuration) that is open for business at a flick of a few switches.
In terms of “sound variety” - just have a sampler in your setup, and you are home safe for all posterity.
When it comes to portability, I found a flight case that I could use as a base on top of my desk, so after unplugging a few cables, I can just pop the lid on, secure it, and be on my way. The main hassle is just the anyways unavoidable process of unplugging and reconnecting a limited number of cables (and vice versa). Mostly main outs and PSU connectors. No biggie.
Workstations are far better today, and most have some sort of VA/FM synthesis. Almost all have the facility to sample your own sounds (or load samples), so the palette is effectively limitless.
But, all in all, it's what you do with it that counts - you have to find the best way to get you there.
I have a steady setup, where I have a Roland MC707 control a system8, system1, Hydrasynth and a behringer TD-3.
And I do have the Luxury that they can stay where it is in the room, so it's available when needed to work on any project.
Most crucial is the synths connected to the MC707, they all have the option to do program changes via MIDI, so it is possible to to jump from one project to another with all synths setup with the correct patch.
I will not acquire any synths without that option, just to make sure i have to reprogram a synth every time I want to play another project.
So it can be done,but it does require some synths that do speak MIDI Control fluently .
Great thought provoking vid well delivered. 👍🏼I need neither a workstation nor a sack full of synths. A sequential pro 3 se, Arthuria micro freak, iPad with cubasis 3, a handful of carefully selected soft synths and effects apps is : 1) reasonably affordable, 2) top drawer analogue and digital sounds, 3) awesome DAW for capturing, arranging. Mixing, mastering and sharing, 4) takes a small amount of drawer too since discs in the spare bedroom so can be left set up permanently, 5) expandable if I get spare cash. 6) little menu diving and more than enough controls to give hands on gratification to help facilitate creativity. I had a qs300 back in the day. Didn’t need general
Midi / emulations of traditional instruments, or all the menu work. ❤
I get the rant. Specially if you have to setup everything from scratch every time it will get tedious real fast. For me the appeal is the dawless workflow for quick arrangements and sound design aspects of it. I love exploring sounds in a musical setting.
The gear piece is true. I try to get the best piece available for what I'm trying to do rather than anything else or else it wont get any playtime.
On the cost, yes, it can get expensive, but Ive come to see that many dawless people come at it from guitar/bass and you end up accumulating a lot of gear over the years (mixers, fx units, cables, etc..). This makes the transition less rough. It's a slow burn.
I just sold my Fantom, because even that on it's own - is overwhelming.
Tedious or not, I love the hardware and modular synth setups as well as the MPC workflow. Workstations take all the fun out of it for me, but I can understand how it is an amazing tool for studio producers.
I do everything with an MS-20 TR 8S and a TD-3, I also use a Tascam Model 12 mixer as an audio interface for my MacBook Pro.
I make hiphop and 90s house, I use samples on the TR-8S
This thing is my machine for playing loops and mixing live, it's also my tool for creating my songs from improvisations with samples and synthesis or classic sounds.
In my way of making music, individual audio tracks are important, all tracks are edited and recorded simultaneously in Logic Pro.
And I don't have a lot of new equipment, I don't really need it, the MS 20 already gives me all the analog sound I like and the rest I only need to play live and create songs more or less with an initial idea of an arrangement, sometimes the music asks you where to change or what sounds to mute for a better atmosphere within the song.
These are the things that work for me when I record everything simultaneously.
I look for the musical benefit of improvisation, letting myself go with what sounds without looking at a screen and letting myself go, knowing that if something goes wrong everything is there to edit it in the arrangement.
Greetings and thanks for the video.
You have no idea how relevant this video is as I've always been a hardware person since the turn of the century until about a decade ago when my old school gear just became old and broken while my visual art became more popular until the analog resurgence and actual content teaching how to make the sounds and use the gear got me back in. But in the past few days dusting off my friends gear and merging with my own is actually overwhelming. I've spent days just figuring out how to lay them out and get them to communicate properly has been daunting. But after watching this video it helped me focus as the thought of all these different boxes working together is so much more inspiring than one machine doing everything. It's difficult for me to put into words but It feels right.
For me - its easier to pick up something used, small and interesting every 3 or 4 months and start with it immediately instead of saving for 2 or 3 years to be able to afford something like a Modx+ or Montage.
I love the workstation set-ups I've had several over the years (Triton , Karma, Emax2 etc) accompanied by multiple stand alone devices. That was when I had a dedicated area for my studio. Since getting married and having kids I don't have the space for all that. My biggest factor to my music set up now is portability. I love using my sp404mk2 as the brains and being able to sample in any sounds I want to use. It has good enough effects to tweak things how I want. I can take it anywhere. Thanks for the video!
For my "daily driver" sounds, what works is the standalone no-host-or-daw acoustic samples VTines Mk 1 for rhodes, using a split Yamaha YC controller keyboard, with lowest 12 notes midi controlling an oldy/goody Roland xp30 electric bass for left hand bass. For drums, a programmable patterns Alesis sr 18. And for B3 playing, also standalone vst, acoustic samples B5 v2 vst.
First rate rhodes, bass, B3, drum sounds with minimal startup steps on the computer.
That commenter wasn't lying. That really is $6000 worth of crappity crap. I bought a Kurzweil K2700, it solved the need for an 88 key weighted keyboard, a DX7 emulator, a VA synth, and a rompler with extensive professional production-quality sounds. I also got a couple of modern synthesizers (a Summit and a Hydrasynth), and a handful of small monosynths for the occasional bass sound or sound effect.. and I don't think I spent $6k on all of that.
I know it seems like all that stuff is unnecessary. And you are right to a point. But I think there is so much to be said for having more toys in the toy box. It really helps to keep your interest up with the hobby. You can have the biggest shiniest most expensive toy in the world. But if that is your only toy how long before it doesn’t seem so shiny?
These are the same exact reasons why I went to the workstation lifestyle and decided to go for a Kronos 7 years ago, cannot be happier and yes, the full parameter guide / manuals are harder to read than Joyce's Ulysses.
Yes, it is the last piece of hardware I got and I'll only replace it with a Nautilius successor.
BUT... for some mysterious reasons that will undoubtedly be familiar to most people here, my money kept going to, well, plugins and VSTs. Yesterday I got Nexus 5 for example,I got full NI and Arturia collections... and don't get me started with UAD plugins, that shit is more addictive than cocaine.
I have more sound power than Mike Oldfield in 1972 yet I have not written any Tubular Bells, only bad 80s pop song covers.
IN the end it's about what you can do with the stuff you already own, spending money in GAS sprees can be fun, but it's not making anyone more creative.
Roland SE-02 is a great synth. It is like a Mini Moog but with the sync switch it can sound like an Odyssey. I've used it to cover an obscure UK band from the late 70's called Magazine for a Festival. They used an Arp Odyssey. I actually own one, but with 20 songs to cover and no presets the SE-02 saved the day. I paired it to an A800pro. My point is hang onto gear because it may very well help you down the track. I remember getting rid of a Juno 60, MK2 Rhodes and an M100 + 147 leslie as no one will ever use them again!
I like having lots of hardware because each one is inspiring in its own way.
The last track I made was jammed on hardware, to get the basic structure, but transferred to Ableton for final arrangement and mastering. Worked like a charm 👍
You did a great job hitting every pro and con. To hell with hardware haters 😎 my hoarding and lil repetitive loops never hurt anyone
I use my workstation to guide me as to the structure of the song and roughly the instruments to make that arrangement. It is an immediate medium. However I take the final MIDI recording into the DAW and substitute sounds to make it unique. The convenience of a single keyboard set up out weighs the time I would take setting up templates etc. I find the one keyboard instantly gratifying. Some of the sounds I will keep, others I'll replace, but that's not unlike any other recording in the real world, so I'll stick with my workstation that I have had for over 25 years. Mind you, I still build up the clutter and have hundreds of sounds I never get round to using ;)
When I started my DAWless journey I was surprised how much money I spent just on cables! Also I opted to buy two sets of cables and mixers, one which is permanently installed in my studio and one set for travelling to live performances. That said, I never feel inspired by software or menu diving and need patch cables and lots of knobs to discover the sounds I eventually record in a track.
Gear. Gear is good. More gear is more betterer. In the wise words of Geyarbaiyeur the Cosmic Whelk and god of stuff: *Thou shalt buy it all!*
Despite that, I am a workstation type person. I like to use one tool to do it all, as much as possible. I tend to program drums separately, but I try to do everything I can on one machine before adding any guitar and vocals.
Everything you said makes sense. All good points. Personally, I prefer a "hybrid" approach which combines the best features of a lot of the various options. Most of my sounds and playing are done on individual hardware synths (both full-size and the smaller modules) in a small studio in the corner of my house. I do basic song creation, sequencing and arranging on a Novation Circuit Tracks which has a couple of internal synth engines and a drum machine, but can also drive four external synths via MIDI. I can quickly and easily sketch out ideas on the Circuit Tracks anywhere in the house, and then bring it over to the synths for a more custom sound that only the synths can produce. I use a small Zoom R4 multitrack digital audio recorder to record the various parts of the song, and I bring those digital audio files into Ableton on the PC to complete the arrangement and finish the track. At any point, I can use the individual parts of this setup just for fun, or I can combine them as described above. It's the perfect setup for how I like to create music.
Agree with this - also if you love to do sound design I think it's great to have a synth right there to work on patches whenever you get a chance - it's always just there to power up and try something.
@@dj-cyr3nt Exactly. We might turn on a synth and just do a little sound design for 45 minutes, and sometimes that patch might inspire a whole track to work on later.
@@dj-cyr3nt By the way, the DJ mixes on your UA-cam channel are incredible. The two recent ones from the last couple of days are exactly my favorite type of music. Thanks for sharing those!
@@synthsoniq Thank you so much, do you have music you would like to share also? Always love to listen to what artists are doing.
@@dj-cyr3nt Your mixes are so good, I saved them to my UA-cam playlist to play again later. Subscribed too. I haven't uploaded / shared any music yet because I only recently started "mastering" my music to make it sound decent on other speakers, sound systems, and streaming platforms. (I realized without that step, they sound good on my setup, but not great elsewhere). Once I get a few tracks mastered, I'm sure I'll start posting them to my channel. Thanks again for sharing those awesome mixes.
For quick recordings and uninterrupted creativity, recording my upright piano into my phone is all I need. When I want to turn an idea into something more professional, I turn to my MIDI keyboard and Ableton Live or Logic Pro.
I’ve barely scratched the surface of the software instruments they include, not to mention thousands of legacy keyboard sounds and patches in Analog Lab V that basically came free with the controller.
If I want to get some ‘performance’ practise in, then Logic's AI-powered session musicians do a great job of accompaniment.
As far as physical hardware goes, I hate clutter. If something is gathering dust, or if I haven’t touched it for over a year, then I sell it on and give someone else the opportunity to use it.
The secret is a central sequencer. You setup synth patches always the same - i.e. the synth gets modulation wheel to modify the sound, then the central sequencer sends the automation of the mod wheel to the synth, this way you control all of these little boxes. You could do that with NI Maschine, but i run with a Squarp Hapax, its like having Abelton Live for HW. I was tempted by montage myself, so i can understand the way you think about it - but then you have to deal with all the setup menus of the sounds, and while it allows a lot of customization, the process didnt look fun. I personally have the most fun, when i do sound design, and combine a hybrid approach i.e. i do stuff in the DAW, which i then put into a sampler (atmospheres, complex rythmic ideas) , and play over this stuff with live instruments i control from hapax. I too saw videos from modular guys operating walls of modules, but one guy said - its all about the sequencer and if you can connect with it. For a setup you have to put away every time a more compact solution surly makes sense in your case - i did rent a band room, and play with other guys, so we can meet and have fun with music, the cost can be shared between the guys, not sure if you have something around your area to do the same.
For me it was the journey to find how I like to work and what inspires creativity. As I’m moving away from keys to guitar, I think all I need is my MPC X, a workstation and Rhodes. But now I have so many hardware instruments in storage like M1, D50, DX7, Motifs and others that I really don’t use, but I’d just hate to sell them for $50. I wish I could instantly turn them into a Les Paul I have my eye on.
If I’m still alive in 10 years, I only want the MPC, a Rhodes suitcase and one guitar. That’s my goal.
I noticed I had this situation too! I had a similar revelation not long ago, and I set about a new plan to reduce the number of keys and synths I have, and do everything I need...so I started to get dedicated keys for each area important to me:
At home, I have a dedicated "Keyboard pit" comprised of dedicated instruments: piano (Korg Grandstage X), organ (Crumar Mojo Suitcase), synth (Arturia AstroLab), lead synth (Expressive-E Osmose). This basically covers everything major.
I have no plans to upgrade to future piano, organ, or synths - Arturia V Collection has so many options already, and they keep adding more.
I'm into organ, so I also have a few other organs; and few keytars. I have a current arranger, and don't plan on upgrading to a next generation; I have a current workstation, and will likely upgrade to a next generation depending on the improvements, feature set, etc.
Everything else: mostly modular, semi-modular, miscellaneous. Some I know I'll regret selling.
Other than a future workstation, it would have to be something unique, advanced, amazing, etc. that I can't do with what I already have.
Cheers!
Hey Woody, the Mpc is pretty good and easy for syncing several synths together. As long as you press play on the mpc and you’ve set them to sync they generally all play well together.
I start with the PSR-SX920 arranger as the foundation, then add Montage to build upon, put it all into Cubase which equals no stress. I went the Native Instruments and Arturia route and too many software control issues for me.
For multi capable musicians a workstation is ideal because it has so many really excellent on board sounds. You can still play other instruments along with it and it makes working up a song really quick and easy. If I was starting out again I would have a Yamaha PSR X920 a small mixer a guitar effects unit all into a Zoom X20 recorder. Not much else would be needed to craft up a decent recording
My summer setup is my Novation SL MK3 and my iPad with AUM and some apps. Works great and it’s cheap. I also have Ableton, a push2. Lately an Mc707. Lot’s of learning curves and grinding mental gears but that’s probably good for my old brain. Great hobby and cheaper than scuba diving (also loads of fun).
I don't think it's justifiable to buy this for producing, but for live performing having different gear controlled with a keystep pro will always be best
I feel your pain!
I bought groove boxes because I didn’t have a clue how to use DAW’s and there were no buttons or knobs for instant feedback… but now.. after years of buying gear and fiddling I am starting to move more into software because for one I understand more and more for two it’s a hell of a lot neater.. still… there is so much DAW stuff that it spins your head so like you I have been increasingly more interested in workstations. If I was to sell off all my hardware I’d probably be able to afford a good one and maybe have a little left over for one little groovebox gadget :)
I made that mistake once. Now I use all itb. Love love love the Korg Opsix, Wavestate & Modwave. Arturia Minifreak, Korg Collection, Roland Cloud with Novation 88 key. It’s not the best keys but not the worst either. Those vsts will put you in a hardware feel and mind. I also use Viewsonic Touchscreens to control parameters like a synth is in hardware. Nexus, Soundpaint and Omnisphere also help 😀😊
Hi Woody.
Our job at Fluidshell Design is (as far as sound design is concerned) to produce complex sounds for people who don't have the time, the technical resources, the desire or the experience.
Typically, our customers are those who use workstations and/or libraries for samplers/presets.
The technical resources needed for this take up a lot of space, require a serious learning curve and can quickly (as you show in this video) become very expensive.
It's really a different approach. As far as we're concerned, sound design is a daily job, mostly done on modular synthesizers. We're not going to talk about the price of this kind of equipment, or the time it takes to get anything out of it other than blips.
If you're essentially a composer, you can also make a well-considered choice: a workstation and one or two synthesizers that are highly distinctive and complementary. The workstation can of course be replaced by a DAW.
Acquiring new synths is fun but after your space is totally packed it’s hard to figure out how to organize it all. Link them up with a midi hub, it’s really something else to have a symphony of synths vs workstation or daw. Yeah the space issue is a problem and I’m still working on solutions for that. One idea is to put them into effect peddled cases and secure all the synths with strong quality velcro. It’s expensive but could sell a few synths and get the funds for the cases etc. If you’re good at woodworking you could definitely build something to organize it all
I just switched to a fantom in the summer. Although I am super happy with it, I feel the need for more simultaneous hands on control. For jamming it is good to have, but for general music making, workstation all the way for me.
Great video. There's so much overlap with my gear these days that i'm wanting to offload a lot of gear to simplify my life and make more room in the house too, but there's a lot of fun in using each piece of gear and exploring new sounds, sometimes even in the learning process itself and that keeps things interesting.
I have a few of the pieces of the same gear that's in your collection. The TR-8S and Novation Bass Station II are great. I have those as well as the Behringer TD-3. I had the black MPC One a few months ago but recently traded it to get new new MPC KEY-37.
BTW, the MPC-37 is literally a compact portable workstation keyboard, especially when you purchase the Fabric Collection for it like I have. You can sample with it, sequence with it, play keys with it and create any type of musical ideas you can come up with. The Fabric Collection gives you all the traditional sounds you would typically find in a workstation keyboard synth. I'm still amazed at how powerful and convenient this little thing is, especially considering it's size.
Other small pieces of gear I have include the original MicroKorg, Novation Mininova, Arturia Drumbrute Impact, and my new Donner B1 bass synth that I bought a few months back that's still in the box I haven't opened yet. What am waiting on?!!!!
As I'm typing this, I'm starting to realize I've accumulated quite a few extra pieces of gear myself similar to yours. Nevertheless, it's still fun to pull them out from time to time, even though they're not part of my main setup woth my more expensive high-end synths. With that said, I still would not be able to cough up enough money to afford an Oberheim OB-X8, or 3rd Wave, or Minimoog Model D even if I did sell my entire collection of the small pieces of gear I've just mentioned. Those high-end synths are very expensive!
I've had a Montage for about 8 years now and I feel you should know that it's more of a performance synthesizer than a workstation. It doesn't have a PC editor, and the sequencer was only added in an update after Yamaha got so many complaints from users. I'd hate to see you buy a Montage and then realize it's not the workstation you wanted.
Was the sequencer that Yamaha belatedly added to the Montage as good as the Motif one that preceded it?
@ I don’t know the answer to that.
A good video. Here’s some thoughts….
1) You need space. Pulling the stuff out of a cupboard is an absolute nightmare. I’d never use my stuff in that situation.
2) As great a machine as the Montage is….. there are major advantages of having a lot of individual units that do specific tasks really well and easier, than one monster that does everything. For example, let’s say you want to make a phat synth bass. The Montage is well capable but you’ll never do it with the fun and ease that you will on the bass station. You’ll never program a retro drum beat as quickly on a montage as you would pushing step buttons on a TR8s. By all means you’ll get similar results but it’s a completely different user experience.
3) Some synths have their own unique sound, character and features . For example I have a Dreadbox Erebus and quite frankly no other machine I have will sound as raw and vibrant. You mentioned the Wavestate there’s no other synth on the market that can actually do everything that a Wavestate can do including soft synths(excluding Wavestate Native obviously)
4) Regarding setup. Everything should be setup in a way that you can immediately access it without cabling etc everytime. The bits I don’t have connected never get used. By all means occasionally pull apart some bits for a specific jam video etc, but generally you should have everything setup in a way that you just need to turn it on and you can hear it through your main monitors .
I use a Juno-Di and a Juno-DS for live gigs. They're lightweight romplers, very reliable and have the same sounds as the expensive workstation versions. They're also cheap on the used market so "wreck it, buy a new one" as Biggie would say.
A patchbay, UMC-1820, and Conductive Labs MRCC in a 4U rack, plus big USB hub, have made the business of connecting different configurations a whole lot easier for me, although that's about $700 to get set up. I have various length cable bundles (USB, dual TRS, dual MIDI) wrapped in Alex Tech tubing mesh sleeves coming out of that so I have MIDI in/out, stereo audio in/out, and USB ready to go for each piece of gear I bring out.
I don’t want any synths that are sold at guitar center. The montage keys are trash. The most expensive thing on a synth is the sheet metal cutting, bending, Anodizing, polish, powder coat and silk screening. These toy synths offer none of things. They sound pretty good, but that’s only because technology doubles every 18 months making everything smaller as time goes by. As far as dawless and daw you’re gonna end up at the computer at the end of the day anyway.
Nice video! Also shows how the industry is unable to come up with a single, modern and most simple technical standard for modern times. For example: usb-c or Lan connector only, audio and midi transfer are a requirement, and simple hub devices for that. Power over usb-c as a bonus.
Thank you for going to all the effort to make this episode, much appreciated Woody cheers.
Started with software instruments and have added hardware pieces over time. In practice I start ideas with the hardware setup and use the DAW for the finishing touches. I still used Korg Gadget on the iPad but nowerdays I mostly only use it as a midi sequencer to control various hardware synths. The only limitation is that it doesn’t implement midi clock properly (it can sync to an external clock but it can’t send a clock signal which is a bit annoying when used with a TR-6S / MC-101 which both have a pretty good midi implementation). The only issue with hardware is that at some point you run out of inputs on the mixer, currently have to daisy chain the S-1 into the Reface DX’s aux input. A mixer with more inputs is high on my list for upgrades. I have my eye on a Tascam LM-8ST to replace my current small Behringer mixer that I can then daisy chain to get further inputs.