This Crash is Why the Military Now Does Drug Testing
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
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On May 26, 1981 a Marine Corps EA-6B Prowler from VMAQ-2 "Playboys" landed right of the centerline aboard USS Nimitz (CVN 68) and hit nine other airplanes parked on the flight deck. The subsequent mishap investigation revealed that the deceased pilot had fought a head cold by "self medicating" and six of the 11 sailors killed in the fire on the flight deck had traces of marijuana in their blood. Among the actions taken following the investigation was that President Reagan ordered the U.S. military to institute a drug testing program across all branches of the service. That program is still in place today.
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Thank you so much ( SIR) for addressing this very dangerous and very Deadly misshap. My gosh ( WARD "SIR" ) are EGOs really this high. This is where a fighter jet pilot MUST set aside EGO, writing things your body can't cash 😊
When I think of the aftermath deaths and Damage to TAX payers money 💰 and just taking the carrier out of Ready service. Man "O" man these pilots must take the beating from fellow pilots, but do the wave off, go to shore no matter if you don't know the airstrips. I do think that the medical doctor on board must go to the air BOSS and "SAY" I gave this Pilot this meds, that he might up the dose. This can't be done to pilots, they MUST be grounded. Me sitting here looking at your U-Tube video as I have another SHOT of
Cutty sark 😊 that I know This is BAD. My mind is buzzed. I thank you ( SIR) as one of my favorite U-Tube all Navy information channels, you hit it home on DRUG testing at work places. I remember when I worked, we had a random Drug test and all we had were CDLs. I was a Government Road Farmer ( dump truck )
Operator plus heavy equipment. I am baffled at the amount of Destruction done to Carries air wing and lives lost, all because the Pilot must get in that seat. You ( SIR) bring attention to this most dangerous situation, and Thank you Thank you Thank you
The sponsorship caught me by surprise, in a good way.
The war on drugs had a disastrous effect on the entire planet.
cool video bro... BARRY SEAL has left the chat.....
@@_c_y_p_3 The scourge of prohibition is chaos, crime and corruption.
I was onboard that night. I was an AW with HS-9. I will never forget that night. We had to open the doors to the ready room because they set circle William and there was no ventilation. The main casualty route ran right in front of our ready room. I will never forget the sights or smells from that night of those carried down that passageway.
I remember walking around on the flight deck the next morning and seeing the carnage. After we airlifted the severely injured to Jax, the sip hauled a$$ back to Norfolk. The fire in the crotch was so hot it burned a hole through the flight deck. Master at arms were confiscating people’s cameras who ignored the order to NOT take any pictures on deck. When we got back to Norfolk, the phones at the end of the pier were hammered for hours and hours. The reporters were hounding anyone from the Nimitz for a story. There was a press conference in Hangar bay 2 I believe where Captain Batzler answered questions. As a young AW2 in my first squadron, it really shaped how I operated the rest of my 20 year career as an Aircrewman.
Sir, I love machinery and am completely amazed by the scope of ships. I served my machinist apprenticeship under a sailor from the Vietnam era. Being from Iowa, the thought of getting on a vessel that goes to sea is terrifying. I say all that to say this:
The sailors on that fire suppression team are the Hero’s of the Hero’s. The one thing that would draw me to take my skills to sea is the fact that everyone is responsible for everyone.
I have spent my life as a Civilian supporting the military in anyway I can. Care packages, Helping PCS, Ret. Vet support, 10 years Army GS and now a contractor. America is the greatest country on earth and your service ensured that my generation has something to protect. We won’t let you down.
The NFP came up the port ladder at frame 29. We came face to face with a Phoenix lying on the deck. It was the first time that a foam inline eductor had been used in an actual casualty. Many of us are still friends to this day
@@Noone-jn3jpreally well said, thank you and all service members for what you guys are doing.
Thanks for the insider perspective. What I like most about online communities is the opportunity to get high quality information directly from those who lived through events.
Thank you for your service bother.
I went through EA6B training in the same graduating class with Steve. Marine pilots did not have to Carrier Qualify in the Prowler before graduation which was a HUGE mistake on leadership's part.I do not remember if they even did any FCLP. Going to the boat in the Prowler is critically important because you have to deal with an extreme roll angle of the lens to compensate for the very high Hook to Eye distance and the Rooster Tail among all the other factors you do not experience in FCLP. I remember saying farewell to him and asked him how he felt about not going to CQ when he was leaving Whidbey and I was going to the boat the next week. He was respectful of knowing what we would have to do to graduate. So IMHO, the mishap was due to 5 main factors. #1 Prowler Roll angle makes glideslope information useless unless you are on centerline which forces the pilot's scan to get fixated. #2 If I recall there was no centerline lighting as there is on runways, so he mistook the right threshold as centerline after fixating on trying to discern glideslope from LSO novercompensating the right for line up do to the angled deck. #3 NO CQ at Whidbey. #4 Command pressure to be a Hacker. #5 the excessive med dose which is tied to #4. RIP all that lost their lives that evening. I was on cruise on another ship at that time. Steve was a good and likeable person and a dedicated respectable Marine. Please remember him as trying to do his best for his country.
Thanks for your perspective.
Very interesting…didn’t have to go to the ship in order to graduate. Who would have thought. But I could see back then the standards seemed different. While I was going thru night equals in the A7 on the Connie, I had the opportunity to watch some Marine F4s get some traps. It was colorful
This is without a shadow of a doubt the most measured, pragmatic, and honest testament I think I've ever heard.
God bless you for sticking up for Steve.
He was serving his country.
That's what matters.
Semper Fi. My condolences for the loss of your classmate and friend. And to all of us for the deaths of good Marines and Sailors. As long as we speak their names, they are not truly lost to us.
The carrier's landing area centerline has sequencing flashing lights that run from fantail to angle. The round down has a centerline extension with red lights.
For those who just heard Greek when he said "11x the dose of Brompheniramine":
Brompheniramine is a 1st-Gen anti-histamine drug. Like Benadryl, it causes extreme sleepiness. An overdose with this drug would be extremely impairing, comparable to a very high alcohol level.
I list antihistamines as an allergy on all my medical records because of the extreme brain fog effects, which last a lot longer than blood levels would indicate. Also for some days after a dose I am susceptible to periods of suicidal ideation. NO BUENO!
11x the recommended dose is insane. Assuming the doctor hadn't prescribed more than is safe, the pilot must have swallowed half the bottle. And he was willing to fly despite being unable to valsalva, risking his health and career.
When I was in high school (early '70's) one of the drugs of choice was NIQUIL -- unrestricted in those days -- easy to legally buy (simpler times), a bottle during lunch and afternoon classes were a haze.
@@stewartstone3926 Cough syrup is still a very popular recreational drug, though I think other OTC drugs have taken over ever since they reformulated Nyquil and other cough medicines. Benadryl has become quite popular in recent years, and I've even heard of people abusing Benzedrex.
@@karabenomar I mean, high-dose antihistamines are sometimes used for allergic reactions and autoimmune disorders. I was prescribed 4x the 'maximum recommended dose' of Allegra at one point, though Allegra is the least impairing antihistamine. I'm pretty sure you're not even allowed to fly on any dosage of 1st gen antihistamines (that includes Benadryl) since they impact your brain so dramatically.
The moral of the story goes beyond just the military: If peoples' lives depend on your mental state, don't be high, drunk, impaired, etc. This includes driving to the grocery store as much as tanking or landing an aircraft. A lapse of concentration, a few feet of drift to the left to cross the center-line, and you're driver to driver with a semi or van full of children.
like that concrete truck that hit the school bus, he was high on cocaine
THC can show on a urine test many days after any neurological effects have stopped. Just because someone tests positive does not mean they are in any way cognitively altered.
If a sailor happened to be standing near a missile that cooked off as he was fighting a fire it’s asinine to insinuate his death was drug related. Unfortunately because there is so much fear mongering around drugs, specifically marijuana (for this the Reagans deserve MUCH blame), it’s hard to have an honest discussion as a society.
If someone is impaired, be it illegal drugs, alcohol, prescription drugs, or even over the counter drugs then they’re impaired. The problem is all too many people focus on the mere presence of illegal drugs in one’s system and totally ignore all the people driving around impaired by prescription drugs, sleep deprivation, and other causes.
Anyway, in this case the issue was *over* medication that caused all those deaths and it’s hardly the first time a doctor prescribed non narcotic lead to a disaster. Unfortunately Nancy started foaming at the mouth as soon as she heard THC so a sensible solution could not be found.
Ps, the drug he was taking is more commonly known as Dimetapp, an antihistamine. Like many antihistamines a low dose is completely safe but there is a sedative or cognitive effect which increases significantly as the dose is increased. A Pilot impaired by an over the counter medic that’s been around for decades, with no THC in his system, took out many sailors (with a positive THC result) strictly because of their dumb luck to happen to be on the flight deck.
@@cruisinguy6024onboard the sailors needed to be ready to perform in an emergency 24/7 so them being high at any point was a risk. Without being there we can’t say that crew performing damage control and the cleanup following the first fire weren’t at their peak because of smoking earlier and might have missed the opportunity to prevent or mitigate the loss from the munitions cook off. It’s ok to admit pot use can be dangerous.
@@mattwilliams3456The rampant denial of its effects both short and long term (psychoses, primarily) is absurd. People really just think it is OK to be incapacitated whenever or wherever. We have a terribly irresponsible society.
And, they have made Mary Jane legal in so many states and people drive with it.😡😡😡😡
This was my dad's first cruise as a naval aviator. He once got drunk enough to tell me about running to the deck and trying to rescue a burned sailor and his hands went straight though his chest and that he didn't sleep for 3 days after. That day haunted him for over 30 years.
Imagine how the innocents feel when troops like your dad blow their country and people to hell for the profit of corporations. It isn't about freedom anymore if it ever was. Nations have to go through such things way too often.
As a flight surgeon myself, I would wonder if the mishap investigation found fault with the wing F/S who prescribed the brompheniramine to a DIACA officer without simultaneously issuing a grounding chit.
I think the CNS Effects of antihistamines is greatly underestimated by the public, and it's non narcotic status is a bad joke and misleads the user into thinking he/she is mentally sound. I've had doses of narcotics intravenously in recovery rooms after surgery after which I was far more competent than after a single 25 MG benadryl capsule. The so-called war on drugs is also full of nonsense, bureaucratic bloat, and hypocrisy. How is it that bureaucratic "wars" are never victorious in a " problem solved" solution.
Yeah, I was kinda wondering about that. The video did mention that the days of pilots being very self-policing and medical letting them self-prescribe came to a quick end. I would say this pilot fell into that trap, he was pounding the cough-medicine like he was instructed to "take this until you feel better".
This was back in a time of “there are no old, bold pilots, only wise old pilots”. After this event, any illness with any medication is now requiring immediate grounding and only a FS up chit can get you back in the air, and whoa behold to they who transgress. That said, there are those who still bring their own cold and flu stash on board.
@@Skank_and_Gutterboy wow that's the polar opposite of my policy. I'm currently under treatment for two different types of cancers, so I've been given Dilaudid, as well as Oxycodone, and 600 mg Acetaminophen which needs to taken with food, and I've always had medicine left over.
I thought that too. I was a Parachute Rigger, and we had a direct line to the FS, we reported a few aircrew to the FS, he pulled them off the schedule real quick.
I was in the Air Force '74 thru '78 and was shocked at how both drug and alcohol abuse was. This was the period right after we were out of Vietnam. I worked on recon systems for the RF4s and quickly learned that when certain pilots were flying sorties back from Germany that they always wanted to down load the camera systems themselves, which gave them solo access to the nose compartment of the aircraft. They were smuggling hashish back and selling it to the enlisted airmen. The Tech Sgt in charge of my group and his staff would drink 3-4 beers for breakfast as many as they could for lunch and hit the bar just off base as soon as their shift was over. It was like this all over base. I did my 4 and went back to school.
From my personal experience as a 15 year old, a lack of substance abuse is the exception. I have known of hash being sold in a private Christian high school, in fifth grade in public school, a fifth grade teacher got arrested for selling drugs, among which were cocaine and methamphetamines.
Maybe my town just has a specific love of good old life changing substances…
If you think " 3-4 beers for breakfast as many as they could for lunch and hit the bar just off base as soon as their shift was over" was bad you should have been near the alcoholic surgeons at William Beaumont U.S. Army Medical Center 1980-1984.
I was in the Air Force in the early 80s and it wasn't unusual for the flightline supervisor to be at the far end of the flightline on an empty parking spot literally asleep at the wheel.....drunk.
I knew older guys that served and knew of similar methods. The stories i heard when in high school in the 70s were something. I always thought bs, but you have the back up to these tales.
I was in the surface navy from '82-'88. I'll never forget when I boarded my first ship, walking toward my assigned berthing space, I caught a strong smell of pot coming from a ventilation duct serving some space deep within the ship. As I got familiar with the ship and crew, I found drug use was quite rampant in the early '80's. However, as time went by, I remember how random drug testing was implemented and how it cut down on drug use among the crew. I'll never forget how some guys on the ship would "Flush" when their number was drawn. When your last digit of your SSN was drawn, you had to submit your military ID, you couldn't leave the ship, and you wouldn't get it back until you submitted a urine sample. "Flushing" was the term for drinking massive quantities of water in the attempt to dilute any trace of drugs in your sample. I saw guys drink so much water they would puke in hopes of furnishing a purely watered down sample for testing. Master At Arms always suspected the guys who delayed giving their samples and when they finally did, that sample was crystal clear. In the beginning, lots of guys beat the system and got away with using drugs; over time, the testing got better and more guys got caught. Within a few years, from my perspective, the Navy really cleaned up its act and weeded out recreational drug users from the enlisted ranks. It simply wasn't worth the Big Chicken Dinner (BCD)... ZK
11:37 Cannabis can be detected up to 30 days after use. Not that i woul d think its ok, but because a person tested positive doesnt mean they were high on the job. Again, i do think they should be clean no matter what, but we have to be honest.
FWIW, if someone's a light and/or occasional smoker, has a low-ish BMI, eats healthy AND drinks a shitload of water after they smoke, it's usually undetectable after about five days. Basically, if you take two weeks of leave, you can smoke your ass off for the first two or three days and will be fine when you get popped for the "random" your first day back.
And as a vet that smokes weed legally now, I absolutely agree with what you said. There's a time and place for everything, but no way in the military at all.
So being honest, they were probably high on the job another night, just maybe not this one.
@@sidefx996 that's correct. Nobody is smoking weed on an aircraft carrier.
I’ve smoked a couple times in my life. I don’t like weed. But I’ve tried it. It’s no worse than a beer. Except the beer may give you a hangover where grass doesn’t seem too.
@jimsteinway695 the effects on the brain and lungs make weed a real problem. But everything has its pros and cons.
I was an instructor pilot at HS-1 at NAS Jax and had SAR duty that night. We (Lt Steve Tomaszeski right seat pilot) flew 12 hours that night and into the next day shuttling wounded sailors the 70 miles from Nimitz to the beach for further transfer to the navy hospital. I recall it was a warm, humid,
windless, moonless night with little to no horizon. I remember approaching the carrier that night and on short final the Air Boss called and said "break it off, man overboard". I could feel the strain and emotion in his voice. The SH-3G helo version we were flying that night had no doppler radar so no over the water night hover capability but we weren't about to tell the air boss we couldn't search. A further complication was the fact that we lost interior comms so could not communicate effectively with each other. Fortunately there was no man overboard and we were recalled to our medevac duties. The wounded sailors, some heavily bandaged, some in obvious pain, some retching, some being tended by corpsman is a sight I will never forget. The flight deck looked like it had been attacked and suffered heavy battle damage.
Thanks for sharing this story. RADM Tomaszeski (Retired) had a leadership role in the Naval Helicopter Association for many years, and has been an outstanding champion for the Navy helicopter community.
I was Army, served with guys that had been in Vietnam, they couldn't say enough good things about helo pilots; and I was at the Ramstein Air Show disaster in '88, watching the choppers make a big circle as they came in to the runway, loaded up, then flew up to Landstuhl, then came back to do it again, and again, and again. The world is a better place because of guys like you.
Thank God that there's not a long-term test for alcohol. We wouldn't have a military
I was a young Sailor in that era. It was really a war on pot, most hard drugs didn't stay in the system long enough to be detected. You really had to try and get popped for anything other than weed.
Yes, also gate security at oceana pulled incoming cars over randomally and inspected for drugs. Even vacuuming the carpets looking for one seed, leaf, or stem.
The military as usual trying to play the blame game, I was on the carrier, Kitty Hawk, these accidents just happen not because of drugs, but because landing on a carrier will result in a crash if you’re just a tiny bit too low, hardly any room at all for error , most of the crashes actually happen at night, night carrier landings are scary even to experienced pilots ! Failing a drug test because you smoke pot two weeks ago while in Port, seriously, this does not cause bad work performance at sea, ! working people 18 to 20 hours a day at sea does though. ! Sailors make mistakes because they’re tired, same goes for the pilots !!
When I was assigned to the 82nd, our parachute riggers had just pissed hot for LSD, which means they had dropped acid within 24hr of being on duty.
@@LRRPFco52 As a former paratrooper, I find your statement very terrifying.
@@YzOne2g We lost a guy on a jump right around that time too. He burned in with a cigarette roll with combat equipment (we always jumped w/CE). SSG Ivy found him in the trees near Sicily, smashed into a tree under his ruck and the chute in a streamer shape strung up in the tree.
They kept it very quiet and I didn't learn about it until years later when I got reassigned to that Company. B Co 3-325 AIR.
I was onboard the FID when this happened, working Airframes in VF-74, working nights. I was in the habit of crawling into the exhaust of our Phantoms to watch flight operations, the best seat in the house. That ended with crash on the Nimitz. What Mooch didn't mention, is that every dead sailor on the Nimitz that tested positive for THC lost their benefits, and their families didn't get any money. I was so happy when I finished my contract with the Navy. Being owned sucked, one stint taught me the value of freedom.
That's absolutely vile that the Navy did that to the families. Why do you think they did that?
@@Legitpenguins99 Because the Military Sucks... everyone wants POWER over someone... I remember being charged for carrying a lethal weapon... my Navy Issued Electricians pocket knife...
@@Legitpenguins99 Is this a joke? Government's been screwing over its citizens since December 23,1913.
Cause our Gov suxs
How did you find out about their benefits being cut? Families should have gotten SGLI payouts- line of duty investigation would have found those guys in line of duty at their deaths.
Drugs, prescribed or 'otherwise', are dangerous. The young guy trying to prove his worth in a group of high achievers is VERY dangerous.
But as Ward pointed out indirectly - in the sense that it had to be emphasised to senior Officers - declaring being too ill too fly is NOT 'wussing out' *Its the most responsible thing to do in the circumstances*
So WHY was that instruction needed?
*Because the culture was 'You HAVE to do it' - Its why so many airliners still crash with exhasted crew*
@@babboon5764 >Its why so many airliners still crash with exhasted crew
The last US Airline crash was more than 15 years ago. Hardly a still crash kind of thing.
People who use drugs are impaired. They are not of a sober mindset. They hurt themselves first and then the people around them and then the community at large. There's a reason drugs are not allowed in the military. Because they increase risk to all personnel. 🧐
I was wondering where all the crashing airliners were. So some of the safety rules are helping. As a physician, I would say that if you're ill enough to be put on a prescription medication, you need to stay home. Especially if you're a physician.
@@flycrg Seems likely the drop off in exhausted US aicrew 15 years back would be influenced by the guidance to the millitary
BUT *globally* pilots are often required to fly stupidly long hours.
My dad still has this poster from like 1991 of the Blue Angels flying straight up in the diamond with the caption "You can't do *THIS* on drugs."
Where can I get one?!?
@@flparkermdpc 1991
Which is pretty ironic, considering the tens of thousands of amphetamine go pills that both the navy and the air force was prescribing gladly at the time.
Yea you can lol
@@TzunSu Yeah kind of true.
I was on-board the Nimitz that night and remember vividly to this day.
Did you know anyone involved in the incident?
@@gtaxmods thankfully no but it had a tremendous impact on the entire crew.
Same here.
No surprise. So blessed to be untouched.
I joined in '88 and didn't get to a ship until '90 because nuke school takes 2 years. The older guys talked about smoking pot down in the shaft alleys with the chiefs all the time in the early 80s. By the time I got there, things were totally different and we got piss-tested all the time.
As a plane captain who worked nights the entire cruise, I don't see how anyone could think being high while working on the flight deck would be a smart idea
"No Sh-t Sherlock!" Just a couple carrier qual visits and I was AQ in an A-4 squadron, thus very little flight deck experience, but I've watched a lot from O-7, and I gotta say you are 100% right. When the arresting cable breaks, that is not the time to say, "Duu-u-de!"
...just legacy Vietnam era mentality... I can't see it either
@@wokewokerman5280 true different times different era
Who ever said druggies were smart?
Almost like the person who was "high" was the marine with antihistamine medication in his system
I was working in AIMD at NAS Cecil Field when it happened. I remember going through a meeting where they told up about the drug testing. During the meeting, they told us the only drug that couldn't be detected by a urinalysis was LSD. Quite a few sailors I knew quit smoking pot and started doing LSD. It made me happy my sea time was done.
When I got to the 82nd, our Parachute Riggers had just pissed hot for LSD. If you're still tripping and it's in your bloodstream, you will piss hot within 24hrs of use, but not after that.
the military is an insane org doing insane thing to innocent people now. There will always be drug use. Alcohol seems to be their sacrament.
My father was part of the disability review board that heard cases of the sailors disabled in this incident. He was on CV-3 at Iwo Jima and carried those memories all his life. I remember him coming home from the Pentagon and pulling me aside to tell me, "If you ever do something wrong, don't admit it". I didn't know what to think and probably looked stunned. He explained that some of the disabled sailors from the Nimitz had admitted to drug use the night of the incident and their disability benefits were in jeopardy because of it. I don't know how those cases turned out, but I'll never forget his advice.
The good old find any reason to deny veterans health care.
Gotta love the VA
@@mitchconner403 : No I don't. 😃
In other words, Cover your A ss.
Should people get disability benefits due to their own misconduct ?
@@robertblake9892 People should objectively have health care.
I was there, attached to repair 5 main locker at the time. When all AFFF station were activated by flight deck personnel instead of 1 or 2, the overpressure blew the header apart in the aft galley and flooded it with foam. This space had to be evacuated during a casuality on the flight deck.. This also meant no AFFF reached the flight deck from the installed systems. It brought us down to 5 gallon buckets and portable foam applicators (Not going to use the common name). When that ran out, we were down to salt water fire hose mains. Terrible night.
One small correction the Crash actually occured on 5/25/1981 at 23:57, The first 1MC call was "Crash on deck", 2nd call was "Fire!, Fire! Fire on the flight deck". The Third call came at 00:01 5/26/1981 "Genreal Quareters, General Quarters! This NOT a drill! All personnel report to you Battle Stations. Up and forwrad on the Starboard side, Down and after on the Port side. General Qarters".
I just introduced my neighbor to your channel. He is 86 yrs old. He flew F4 Phantoms in the 60s & early 70s. A true gentleman and officer. I have the highest regards for you and he. Great video Mr. Carroll. Keep up the good work!
I sailed on the Enterprise in her Westpac 74-75 cruise. I observed people buying and selling marijuana in many places on the ship, including the mess line at least once.
I was VA-95 on the Big E 82-84. We had police bring a dog to sniff our seabags on the hangar deck.
The Saratoga visited Montego Bay, Jamaica in '79 for 4 days. The day before we arrived, our CO came on over the 1MC and told us there would be no searches coming back on the ship except for suspicion. During our 1980 Med cruise, there were no searches and the ship was loaded with hash. We had no mishaps and we won a MUC for being the most improved carrier in the fleet.
I was an A-6 Intruder plane captain in VA-42. My first carrier qual was in Feb. 1973. When we got aboard the USS Independence, they sent us directly to the anchor room to search our sea bags for drugs. That was a wake-up call ! When I cleaned barracks for 3 months before becoming a plane captain I stood 4 hr. fire watches. Walking the halls, I could smell the marijuana smoke from inside some rooms. They covered the bottom gap of the doors with towels, but that didn’t stop the smoke from getting into the hallways. I worked night shift on the ready line as the driver of the van for the troubleshooters, communicating with the maintenance office when launching the aircraft, and there was marijuana being smoked in the van during flight opps. I think at least 85% of the guys from the line shack smoked marijuana. Bad enough they smoked it off hours, but smoking it during work hours at work was looking to get into big trouble !
I was on the Big E during the 76-77 WESTPAC. We had liberty in Mombasa Kenya lm, and I was on the fantail when some sailor came aboard with a scuba tank which in itself wasn’t strange because a lot of us were divers. But when a Master at Arms opened the valve and no hiss of compressed air was heard he was suspicious. ( You never breathe a tank dry because it allows corrosion in). They fetched a wrench and screwed the valve off. The tank was full of Hash. I’m sure that guy went to Leavenworth.
Oh the horrors! How many alcohol users did you notice who were non-functional?
This is the first time I have heard of this terrible accident. In 1972, I was SDO on the Iwo Jima in the Med. The XO called a sudden drug investigation, actually an unscheduled inspection in the enlisted quarters and drugs were being used. This pilot should have been medically grounded and his judgment was grossly negligent.
As a former medical officer, I commented earlier here that I think the Medical officer who had seen Steve the day prior and prescribed the antihistamine should have grounded him before writing the prescription. The soporific effect of antihistamines was well known, but not the extreme variability of duration of action and depth of sleepiness. If he was requiring medication to try to clear his sinuses, he needed to be off flight status for 24 hours after recovering his
sinus clearance from the medication, and to have discontinued that medication for at least 12 hours.
I joined HS-9 on board the USS Nimitz in October of 1981 during the cruise after this crash. When they started the drug testing we lost a few of our squadron mates.
At least they were lost to the squadron because they were separated, not because they died in a crash.
@@psychohist Or died due to mishandling munitions or in proximity of mishandled munitions.
I remember we lost a Sailor of the Quarter in HS-9 because he popped positive.
As tragic as these stories are, its important to learn from them. Thanks for the in depth reporting Mooch
The regulations are written in blood....
Horrific accident, and the cook off post crash must have been gut wrenching for the crew who thought they'd contained the initial crash aftermath.
It seems I remember a Lt. Curtin of the Blue Angels at Miramar augered in due to unauthorized (civilian) use of a cold medicine. I was there that terrible day. Watched the whole thing from hangar 6 ramp. I was a Plane Captain back then. The cold medicine thing was the scuttlebutt and years later happened to meet one of his team mates. Said pretty much the same. The pressure on these Aviators is immense, I don't want people to misconstrued my account as disrespect. We on the ground are under a great deal of pressure and unless you've been in Naval Aviation community you'll never get it.
I joined in 1979 and was going through training at Dam Neck when this happened. That event changed everything. When the drug testing program started so many people were gone overnight. One day a crewmember was there , the next day they were gone. Zero tolerance, period.
I was in Dam Neck in late '79. One of our guys in OS "A" school poped positive for marijuana. He had a choice, go to the fleet as a BM or a cook. He chose MS and got shore duty there at the EDF. Boy were we pissed! Told our Chief maybe we should all pop positive and get shore duty. 😂
Should be the same with driver's licenses
I saw a lot of Navy careers "torpedoed" during my tenure at OS "A" school 84-87. There was one case in particular, a young OS1, Christian-man, father of two, solid marriage, but because his random urinalysis test came back positive, he was summarily booted out of the Navy with a "less-than-honorable" discharge, no reexamination of the specimens chain-of-custody or official lab results...
@@CrazyBoomerDude Something wrong there they always do a retest. had that happen to a Sonar Man on my second ship everybody knew this kid didn't do drugs my friend who is the Senior Chief sonar tech went to the captain said we need to retest him and they did and it came clean. Your guy might be able to get an attorney and go back through the review board for discharges and get it changed because of no retest.
I went to OS A school in 1985
I was in the USAF starting in the mid-'70s and remember this event well. After Vietnam, pot use was pretty common at my first base, and as long as you kept your hair in regs and didn't do anything to draw attention to yourself, being tested was rare.
After this crash and the subsequent fallout, "Golden Flow" tests became common with no-notice requirements to give a sample, which by attrition reduced drug use to a very rare event... which was a positive thing. I saw some scary f%$# ups before they cleaned things up.
I was in 76-80. I didn't use pot, but a fair number in my unit did. I was naive and remember being stunned at how casual most guys were about it.
It just wasn’t the US Navy with the random testing. The US Air Force had a random drug testing program. There were a number aircraft accidents attributed to faulty maintenance due to drug use.
I'm pretty sure all the branches did. It was a DoD directive.
@@bruss529 I can vouch for being drug tested both in the Air Force, and in the Army National Guard between 1983-1990. I'm pretty sure everyone was testing.
Blamed on drug use. You can't know if that is the case.
@@gaoxiaen1 Doesn't make a difference. Any drug use when you are in the military puts fellow service members and mission success at risk. Impairment is not appropriate and not fair to the other men and women of the unit. Besides, the piss tests and the Expeditious Discharge got a lot of people out of the military who needed to go. It really saved the morale of the service.
I joined the Navy as an enlisted man in 1989. It's interesting to see what led to the procedures I had to work with.
Me too, joined in late '88.
Remember many of the rules are written in blood.
@@DanielMcGillis-xs6rt
Yep, that is true for pretty much anywhere in the military and civil aviation. In the Nav, I was an engine room guy.
I was in surface warfare back in the 80's. I served on board a cruiser. One day the Captain himself caught one of the deck crew smoking a joint in the damn paint locker of all places. The next day he ordered a command-wide drug test. As a hospital corpsman, we were tested by the chief Master at Arms, and then we had to test each member of the crew before they could leave the ship. It took all day. On a ship with 488 people, we had 43 people come up positive for some drug or another. We never had so many people for extra duty. Everybody was getting their P-ways rewaxed, extra painting that needed to be done, berthings and heads getting deep cleaned, and the mess hall had their pots scrubbed. Captain wanted those men to suffer but good. It was fun being an E-3 and getting to watch E-4s and E-5s do your dirty work. Good times.
I was on the Nimitz at that time. I was a damage control supervisor who knew there was going to be a drill that night, so I was ready. General Quarters went off, but then the ominous call of “This is not a drill, repeat! This is not a drill” My damage control team was stationed amidships, so we were not involved with the fires. Next day I had to photograph damages on the flight deck and planes. Pretty gruesome (but not the worst I saw) as a Photographers Mate. One interesting occurrence was when we got back to Norfolk, somebody smuggled photos of the damages and sold them to Life Magazine. The photo lab went thru interviews with security, but nobody was charged.
Back then, the worst that would happen to a guy for doing that was a trip to Captain's Mast (essentially disobedience of an order). Not good but far from what will happen to them today. Now there are actual federal laws against releasing information that is mishap-privileged. One chief on a carrier found that out when he used his cell phone to record PLATS video of an F-35 flight deck mishap, then released it to a website. He was prosecuted under federal law, which is a lot more severe.
I live in Jacksonville and remember this story but never knew the details. Your story telling ability is unmatched. Thank you again for posting these types of stories.
Great story Ward. Prayers for the Killed Sailors. I was on active duty when drug testing started and I was also the Ship’s Duty MAA. I can tell you from first hand experience that drug use was most certainly negatively affecting overall Ship readiness and the Navy and the military at large needed this kick in the ass to get clean. We had a Chief smuggle 2 kilos of Hash right across the Quarter deck in Tunisia. The ship’s MAA had a suspicion and I was on the Quarterdeck when he boarded. I requested he come with me and he made a run for it. He didn’t get far and was caught red handed with over 2 keys of Hashish. Go Navy. Fly Navy! Thank you for sharing your incredible stories with us Ward. Hot Sh-t Sir.
As an officer before and after the drug program began, it was sorely needed. I have seen even E7s busted out of the Navy and have heard of officers.
I was an enlisted member of the US Air Force from 1971 to 1975. We had random drug testing but the officers in our unit did not. It was annoying that we were suspect but the officers were not. Didn’t make sense.
My father was with VF-41 during this time, we where holding our breaths until he came home.
In the USAF we call it Golden Flow. After our little Soiree in Southeast Asia, quite a few guys came back to the States from Thailand and Vietnam with drug issues. Right around 1980 or so there was a major effort to both identify it's degree of use and set up a no tolerance policy. They would take whole units of personnel and hold a surprise Golden Flow operation. As Ward said, you couldn't leave the squadron until you had 'contributed'. After a large number of positive hits, and subsequent punishment, as well as additional unit checks, drug use decreased rapidly until it became more of an 'every once in a while' personal issue. My son is active currently and he says there are random Golden Flow checks, as Ward also mentioned VIA SSAN last number draws, among other methods, all to insure it is, indeed, random and comprehensive.
One of the Nicknames for it in the Navy was also "Operation Golden Flow". When it first started - officers who tested positive were gone. This gradually extended to all ranks - no excuses. While I had almost zero "oppertunities" to participate, I did support the policy.
I was in a VP squadron in Hawaii before the random testing started. They did a command wide urinalysis and 80% of the squadron tested positive! I think it had a lot to do with how they went forward after that. I’m sure they were shocked at how widespread pot use was.
I assigned where we had a civil service member that was a retired Chief MSgt. He told me of when dope was tested for and eliminated people. If I heard him correctly, the personnel had plenty of heads up to stop and clean up. Am I mistaken?
I remember it being called 'Golden Flow' but I remember it more often being called 'Whizz Quiz'. In addition to what you said all sailors coming off of leave were required to submit a sample. At least until the random requirements came online.
@@MavHunter20XX
I have my doubts. If you're a regular pot-smoker, you need 30 days to clean up.
I work in the chemical industry on a production site. We are subjected to daily alcohol breathalyzers, on entry and exit to the facility (yes exit as one clown smuggled his drink in on night shift once) , as well as random drug testing (piss tests) at any time or frequency dictated by the company. All these test, if failed in any singular way, result in immediate dismissal. If you get it wrong shit blows up and people die, so not unsurprising if you are flying a war machine to be subjected to similar protocols, if not more so.
I have to say, the number three is a very un-random random number. I filled so many of those little cups.
Thank you for the video sir. I enjoy them all.
I thought the same thing about the number 4. I pissed in more cups than I care to remember.
LOL. "7" is NOT my lucky number.
My friend was the AMO for VMAQ2. He and I are both Mustangs and graduates of Texas A&M (MECEP). He was a year ahead of me and at this time I was flying my BI5 in a T-28 with VT-6. Lt. White, if I recall correctly, was an Aggie also. My friend had been an enlisted infantry Marine and when it came time to request his Officer MOS he told me that he wanted something far from the danger of the infantry field, something safer. He got AMO. He was there that night and joined the crew on deck to fight the fire. One of the missiles cooked off and killed the two sailors on either side of him (you had mentioned them) and took a chunk out of his calf.
DAMN!!
Props to the firefighters.
Ah yes, the same military that will put you in jail for a month then kick you out but will also prescribe you Ativan, ambien, and seroquel at the same time.
4:57 *Carrier aviation ain't no joke. RIP to the lost aviators and Nimitz crewmen* 5:59
Tragically, drug use is still prevalent in the Corps. My Nephew was with West Coast Marines and was using cocaine with senior Marines in his unit. Pisses me off to no end and I now do not encourage enlistment to anyone which I had probably about 60 kids I’ve had enlist during my years. Even when I was in during the 80’s I saw Marines bounced for drug use with one being the Lt. who was in charge of handling the scheduling of piss tests. I came to work was told “Hey, Lt. Knucklehead popped on a piss test” I asked “Isn’t he the one that sets them up!” Yep….he is. Dope makes you stupid.
Crazy that guys surrounded by lethality would even think about impairing their senses.
@@pizzafrenzyman Yep, it's worse than that - they become a liability for those around them.
@@pizzafrenzyman Yeah, 19-year-olds never make bad choices.
@@tonyennis1787 like marrying a Flip Prostitute or buying a Mustang GT with 35% interest? Or, getting a gaudy tattoo prior to A School?
Certainly not teenagers in the ACADEMY !
Where will we send our young to train in the art of mortal combat and unwavering Obedience ?!?
Was an AO in VMA542 aboard the USS Nassau LHA4. Were in the eastern Med when this happened. Very tragic. All my AO’s knew the dangers of ordnance on the flight deck and how quickly ordnance could cook off in a fire. The news spread fast about this accident and really reinforced how dangerous flight deck ops could become.
Thanks for the story. Drugs have no place in the military. I was USAF 82-86, 552 AWACD at Tinker. Knew before I signed and raised my hand that drug use was zero tolerance. Worked in an office; in about '84 returned to my desk one afternoon to find an MP with a dog sniffing around the office. It alerted on my desk! The MP searched an found a bag of weed! For about 10 seconds I was terrified then my O-3 section chief let out a big belly laugh because it was a plant to "keep the dogs interested". Yeah, I laughed but I never thought it was funny.
No joke, I would have a frickin' cow and find that about as funny as cat turds in my shoes.
Truth is, drugs have no place anywhere. Now that Virginia made weed legal, I smell it all the time on the road from other cars. Stopping at intersections is now optional, drivers regularly weave in their lanes. Yes, there have always been poor drivers, but the spike in severely risky driving has been simultaneous with the change in law. Add to that the now-underfunded police and new restrictions on who they can and cannot pull over, and a toxic mix has emerged. I don't see things improving any time soon.
lotta drinking and pot in AF 81 to 85 at Nellis but we lost alot of good people to golden flo for THC.
@@hightonesdrifterkent6600 A friend of mine got busted, so I understand. But being "good" and doing drugs in the military isn't "good enough".
@hightonesdrifterkent6600 then there's the legendary Nellis 9
Learned something today, I had no idea this had even happened. Flight deck crew in VA 195 on the USS Kittyhawk CV 63 we put out a big fire one night, no bad injuries, aircraft was destroyed, shit happens on flight decks. This one here was quite a mess so many lives lost, and every life is precious. Thank you sir for the video. Cheers!
My son served on Nimitz as an MM(N)2. This incident also led the widespread pre-employment screens in the civilian and private sectors. Since most recreational drugs clear one's system in hours or days, pretty much the only thing that people pop for these days is weed. A shame, this.
Good reporting, Ward. You called it right down the middle.
An aircrewman in my squadron apparently smoked weed every day for 5 years. After he reenlisted in his 6th year he finally popped positive. He claimed that he knew that even when they randomly selected him and the other sailors that out of all the samples, that they only picked a few of them to actually be tested. That's how he skated through 5 yrs without getting caught, this was between 1990-1996.
I think similar tactic in early 1970s in Air Force that urine testing was not truly random. Across military services after Vietnam drug use took off and soft drugs became more common and easily obtained. Alcohol use to me was also abused (always). Just a part of the culture.
I know a Captain that sold coke on base. His flight nickname was "Snow" early 2000s
@@Jeff-sp7bg Wow, was he an NFO? What type aircraft?
no one inhaled in the 90s, remember?
If you told this to the US military, they would tell you that's impossible. Weed makes you a delusional murdering, uncoordinated physcopath, according to them.
I was the admin chief (though a Quartermaster not a yeoman) for the CARGRU770 reserve unit out of NAS Dallas. We had one yeoman 2nd that repeatedly failed to show up for drill after the random screenings were instituted. He would do "make-up" drills to fulfill his obligations but things were fishy. One weekend when the YN2 and the unit's XO were both doing make-up drills, the XO suggested they both go over and do the drug screen. Needless to say, the YN2 popped positive and was discharged. One Commander I knew recounted how, when part of an F8 squadron in the Med, lost their skipper due to him getting disoriented in climbing through the cloud cover after launch AND a very heavy night of drinking. His skipper was never found.
Former urinalysis coordinator here - from a command of over 1K personnel, the only drugs we ever detected were prescribed drugs from medical/dental.
Which branch and what time period?
@@randykelso4079 USN 1993
@bobchronister I was on board Nimitz as well. I was in the Deck Department preparing for the mid-watch when the BMOW sounded GQ! That was one dreadful event I will never forget in my Navy career. The other would be the Beirut, Lebanon Marine barracks bombing on October 23,1983 while serving on board USS El Paso (LKA-117).
WestPhilly. I was aboard the Eisenhower at that time in '83, racing back to Beirut at flank speed. Oh, how we wanted some serious payback...a few years ago, I met one of the survivors at a nearby rifle range that he ran. He talked a little, nothing graphic, after I offered condolences. I just bit my tongue and listened.
USS Enterprise WestPac cruise, 74-75. We had a long stand-down period at sea, and everyone was bored. Staterooms of the junior officer aviators were just below the flight deck, along two ship-length corridors, port and starboard. One evening, we all smelled that characteristic pungent odor throughout the port side staterooms. Stepping out of the stateroom and into the passageway, we could look up and see the big air duct feeding all those rooms. It had a convenient red arrow every few yards, clearly indicating the direction of air flow. Dozens of us JO's walked the passageway aft, looking for the source of that pungent air flow. When we undogged a small hatch in an otherwise unused space, there were three sailors lounging in a cloud of smoke, staring at us with big red eyes. One said, "Hey man, how'd you ever find us??" It turned out that unused space was the air conditioning fan room that fed the entire port side of the ship, all through "officer country." They were immediately escorted to the brig, and then Captain's Mast. If anyone is interested, I'll share "the rest of the story."
Hell, yeah!
Were the JO's grounded for inhaling second hand smoke? :D
Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story!
Joined the squadron in 1986 and served with Detachment Xray until the squadron re-org in 1992 which created VMAQ-1 and -3. Continued in Q2 until 1998. In the early days there were still folks who had been there and could tell the story. This video was very well done. Semper Fi.
Retired USAF Crew Chief (equal to Navy Plane Captain) and flying crewmember (AC-130 Illuminator Operator). I was never fearful of any "Golden Flow" order, and always confronted and made clear my utter disdain for anyone that would use any illicit drugs/substances and engage in maintenance or operations. (I was an a-hole about it)
50 years later, my position has not waivered.
AV8'ing is drop dead serious business, if you are not 110% committed to doing it by the numbers, you have no business in the business.
BZ to all you do, Mooch. We are all brothers of different mothers, but we are nonetheless, forever family.
Fair winds, and following seas...
(tossed more nickels than I can count)
I'm going to begin lobbying for a lingo dictionary. It's colorful. Don't stop
I am a retired Senior Master Sergeant, in from 1974-1994. I also cheerfully reported to the base hospital when my number was pulled. For several years, at Chanute, once a month they pulled a number (0-9) out of a hat. If your SSAN ended in that number, you had to report by the end of that duty day, no matter what. Even if you just got off a mid shift. I was tested two straight months, then no test for almost two years. Just the way it worked. I had SEVERAL NCO's that got booted. Uniformly, they wanted me to intervene on their behalf. Oh..I was a 1st Sgt., with the diamond, for three years. I saw more crap than you can imagine.
I do recall while serving aboard Constellation that in early 1981, the CO of CVW9 perhaps it COMNAVAIRPAC ordered all personnel with 3 or more Masts/NJPs be immediately discharged for the good of the service.
Random drug testing was implemented implemented aboard Constellation.
Well told Mooch; very sad story. I don't know about "now" in your headline. Everyone I served with in RVN went through Camp Alpha (Army) on the way home and had to pass a piss test before we were permitted to board the "freedom bird". Urinalysis testing was part of my Army career from '69 to '92.
I was a junior officer in the Seabees in the early 1980s. At morning quarters on any given day, we assumed at least a third of the enlisted troops were stoned.
The drug testing program definitely helped make the Navy more safe and professional. I was a huge proponent.
After completing basic followed by airman apprentice training at NTC/RTC San Diego, I checked on board Miramar with orders to VF-1 January of 1979. At that time, Command policy for the Station, VF-124 (the F-14 training command), as well VF-1 as presented by the Command Master Chief, XO and CO of each was consistent and abundantly clear. It was as if from a prepared script. Each said to me as a checked on board, "We don't care what you do while on liberty and NOT on Federal property. If we see you smoking dope right outside the gate, no problem. BUT, DO NOT come on board station on duty high, and DO NOT bring ANY unprescribed drugs or weed onto Federal property or we will nail you to the wall." Just a few months later there was a Navy wide questionnaire issued. As I understand it but can not verify, all branches of service promulgated a similar questionnaire. All were "strongly encouraged" to turn one in, but putting one's name on it was optional. The questionnaire inquired about drug usage. At the time, no one was supposed to get in trouble no matter what they answered and, so far as I remember, no one did. However, the extrapolated results of that census ended up being fundamental input which evolved, eventually but not at first and not all at once, into the Navy's "Zero tolerance" policy. I remember it coming as a surprise to military planners the census having revealed a high probability of AT LEAST 60 percent of E-5 and below personnel having admitted to being regular users of one or more types of drugs "recreationally."
Hence the slow transition to "Zero tolerance," as drumming out all users over night would have resulted in a completely paralyzed Navy. Probably the same for all services. I do not advocate the used of marijuana, even recreationally. Most of us who drew flight deck pay, regardless of liberty status and shifting policies there in, WOULD NOT EVEN THINK of getting, or being, high while on the deck during flight ops. And, as you know, for flight deck personnel, almost every waking minute is spent ON the flight deck DURING flight ops. We realize as military personnel our lives may have to be sacrificed, but NO ONE is anxious to just throw their life away. Being high on the flight deck is like ASKING to die. Not to mention the impact it has in an arena where one's own life is dependent upon others having presence of mind.
I remember when this happened and visited the damaged Nimitz at Norfolk while going to AIT at Eustis in 81'.
I recall it taking almost 15 minutes to casual walk the length of the Nimitz, on the dock next to it.
Nimitz took all the BZ’s and our ship, the USS Coral Sea got 102 days in the IO. You have to look hard to see we were ever there. Thanks for sharing
We relieved (Midway) Coral Sea in 1980 off Korea during my first ever time at sea.
I worked on the Coral Sea at Alameda in the early 80's. One of the guys took me on a tour climbing over spaces, tanks, bulkheads to a small area where everyone in there was high and some kid was trying to play Jimmy Hendrix on an electric guitar. That was a surreal scene. I was a Tech Rep running Yard Birds during an overhaul on an SSTG set. In another space, sailors were pouring boiling water into 5 gallon square tins of coffee and would drink a bit of the toxic waste that dribbled out of a hole punched in the bottom.
One of the mechanics we had from a local shipyard was a kind old Italian gentleman from San Francisco who barely spoke English. Somebody accidentally broke a large container of Liquid Wrench and set it on top of a 5 gallon bucket so it wouldn't leak on the machinery space deck and cause someone to slip. The old man sat in the puddle of Liquid Wrench and it soaked into his coveralls. This was like pouring charcoal lighter on the ball sack and brown eye and lighting it on fire. The old man cussed so hard in Italian and had to be carried off the ship face down on a stretcher. The poor old guy passed away in his 80's and went straight to Heaven. He had already been in Hell. The Coral Sea was a good ship with a ton of history.
@@kimmer6 I got to the Coral Sea in 83 just in time for change of home port from Alameda to Norfolk (via the yards). My first week in E Div, one night I was assigned "Flight Deck Watch" by an EM1, meaning I was to accompany one of the guys from the shop to the flight deck while he was tripping on LSD. Turns out this was a frequent thing as one of the guys had family who would send him care packages containing coke, hash or LSD (or some combination of the three). He was a good shipmate though and regularly shared with others in E Div. If they weren't tripping on the flight deck, they would get loaded and go hang out on the deck for the balloon loft during night flight ops.
The regularity of drug usage was so prevalent, it was almost comical.
When Capt. Taylor would televise captain's mast and we always had at least one person standing tall to represent E Div, to the point that the Capt. commented that "E Div is nothing but a bunch of drug addicts."
Congratulations on doing 102 days cruising the IO on the Coral Maru. When the Iranian Hostage crisis broke, the Nimitz was four months into a Med Cruise anchored at Naples for Christmas stand down. All leaves were cancelled. Five days later we were on Gonzo Station where we stayed for 158 days with no port visits. By the time the Nimitz had finally returned to home port after almost eleven months at sea, the impacted family separation was devastating. The long and the short of this is, it’s sacrifice we make to provide and protect the freedoms of our country.
@@larrymcgill5508 Thank you for your service. I worked in 17 countries and know what its like to be away from family among people who don't speak English and serve crap unfit for starving dogs. I appreciate. After 7 decades, I am thankful for what we have. It must piss you off to see the young dumb asses throw away things you protected with your life. I was in Bahrain for the breakout of the hostage crisis.
I was in 3rd Infantry Division in Germany when those drug tests started. Lots of troops got discharged. Some of the armor companies lost half their troops. Drugs was a really big problem. Took a long time to get over it.
Brompheniramine the generic name for Dimetapp, which is probably more familiar.
Thanks; I did not know that.
Commonly given out at the Base Hospital at Little Rock AFB as a "COLD PACK"
White was using nasal spray.
Dimetapp is brand that covers a whole series of cough/cold/allergy products. Most are mixtures of several medications for cold, flu, etc. Only “Dimetapp Allergy Liquigels” contain brompheniramine as a single active ingredient.
I was off active duty by then, but even in 1976 we had plenty of junior enlisted at Captain's Mast for pot. The Navy was very strict about it through the '70s. It's hard to believe that people didn't get the message.
Agree, but I think MJ use actually increased from mid-seventies through early eighties. I was already off active duty, but in the late seventies I smoked (very little) and I remember doing a couple really dumb things which led me to complete abstinence.
I was working in CATCC, when this happened. We used up almost all of our AFFF. We went into port for less than 48hrs before we went back out.
While serving in 1971 with VA176 onboard the USS Roosevelt I was a Petty Officer temporarily assigned to the ships MAA and I couldn’t believe the amount of drug use by the crew that we tried to curtail without much success as the evidence was always pitched overboard before can get close enough to take action. The sponson decks were popular at night.
I was a Vietnam era sailor and remember drug use being pretty common up to that time. I was stationed at NAS Fallon 77-83 and remember the incident. Having previously worked flight decks and on EA-6Bs it kind of struck close to home. I can still remember going to the base theater to watch a video by CNO when he instituted the drug screening policy.
An operational carrier is not a place to chill out by taking drugs that dumb you down
As a contractor I was tested before working at the Yorktown Weapons & a few of the civilians gained 10 lbs or more after the testing started -
Without drugs, people turn to food addiction. lol
I deployed with Nimitz for 2 Meds & North Atlantic.
I was in 83-87, and drug testing was no joke. 'Pissing hot' was at minimum a bust in rate, 45/45 + 1/2 pay for 2 mos. + restriction.
My Chief was on a DD and made a 2 Vietnam deployments, and he said smoking weed on the fantail was VERY common for much of the crew.
Later came zero tolerance and mandatory admin separation. In 1986, though, we had two guys that were always on restriction. They had a party when they got done and sometimes be restricted again the next week. They stayed E1 through a 4 year enlistment.
@@michaelmappin4425 I knew a guy that had been in 'Nam and was still an E4 in 1985. He got busted like clockwork. Other guys they would have been discharged but as a Vietnam vet no one would dare cut him loose.
I was in VA-35 from '82-'85 so we must have made those two Med cruises together.
Mooch - I knew we had crossed paths, but it wasn’t until now that I figured it out. I was the XO with VMFA-251 during the USS America / CAG-1 cruise in 95-96. Boink
BT1 instructor at Orlando RTC in 1990 told my class that he and many others would openly smoke hashish on deck of the USS Forrestal in the 1970s. The Navy knew plenty of its personnel were not drug free.
I had the understanding that after the USS Forestall and the USS Enterprise fires during the Vietnam era, the US Navy had improved the Fire Safety of munitions. Good report Mooch!
Bombs were thermally protected, but missiles can't take the extra coatings due to weight and aerodynamics.
The bombs which cooked off so readily aboard the USS Forestfire were surplus World War II ordnance which lay rusting for years in storage in the Philippines. There was a shortage of more modern bombs during the mid sixties and the WW2 bombs were issued to fulfill the need. Bad mistake. Things are dangerous enough aboard a carrier without such substitutions.
A good episode. As a former soldier, I believe that there is no place for psychotropic drug use in any of the armed forces. I would want to KNOW that the men either side of me were not impaired in any way. The military isn't easy. We should never lessen the standards, and put good service members at risk as a consequence. If you don't respect your fellow service members enough to not take drugs, then don't join up.
This was a great advancement in safety not only in NAVAIR but also in the airline industry where drug use was also a problem.
I was a fairly new Airman in the ANG. I remember we started the random piss tests sometime after this, which did result in a few positives and discharges. I was glad to never get the assignment of watching the collection process.
I remember back then when practically everyone was either a drunk or a stoner or both. Nobody cared because we were after Vietnam and before Granada. I separated Honorably in Feb of 81 and Honestly I took what I learned and used it for almost 40 years. My Unit was like McHale’s Navy Meets Cheech and Chong!! Semper Forgotus 1790!!!
Ah, so THIS was the reason I had the pleasure of a waking up to somebody beating on the doors in the barracks, yelling "Get up! Piss test!" at 5 AM on random days back in the 90's.
Great video telling the story of this horrific disaster!! RIP to the deceased!!
I was a USN ET for ATC RADAR systems from '95-'06. Rode the Nimitz 'around the world' in '97-'98. On that cruise we had a VMFA-314 F-18 require a barricade trap due to hydraulics failure. That pilot almost certainly needed a new flight suit!! The barricade did its job and stopped the plane, but the nose gear was hanging off the port side of the ship by Cat 4. I'll never forget that event! Fortunately, that was our only aviation 'event' and we had a clean cruise with zero fatalities.
Drug use during my time was pretty rare. Yes, it did happen but, when caught, NJP was swift and brutal. At every command I was at, drug use or possession NJP ALWAYS resulted in 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, loss of 1/2 month pay for two months, and discharge at release from restriction. No one ever returned to duty after NJP. We had the occasional knucklehead pop positive during our regular whizz-quizzes but it was very infrequent and always *ALWAYS* resulted in career termination!! I never heard of a single drug NJP resulting in any type of 'rehab' or other opportunities. EVER. And I am grateful that's how it was handled!! Zero tolerance made my time served much safer and enjoyable!!
I was in ship’s company on USS Carl Vinson in the middle ‘80’s - we called the random drug testing “Operation Golden Flow” the biggest fear was a false positive.
I served as a Corpsman and MSC Officer for 20 Years (I may have been at the USNA at the same time you were. ). Drug screening was a Fact of Life. I'm sure that you have heard or seen many efforts at spoofing the process. Though I never used it, I used to keep a can of Asparagus in my desk as a potential Passive Aggressive response.
Why asparagus?
Left in 81, The extent of the issue was much greater than reported. This was just after Nam and the culture of senior enlisted and officers was lax. It was a usual event to smell pot whenever visiting the fantail at night. Maybe it was different for Airedales but Fleet sailors could choose counseling/rehab and a return. Without that the numbers of discharges would have been too much to bear.
As I understood it, until shortly before I enlisted the protocol was to boot the junior enlisted and commissioned based on they not having been the beneficiary of some not-inexpensive training and retain the senior enlisted and commissioned due to the "sunk cost" fallacy. That changed, and the young'uns were offered an opportunity to get their ducks in a row while the people that the young'uns would look up to for guidance and as examples would be shown the door, no matter how much of that expensive training they had. NB: that was literally "AN opportunity"; coming up dirty again would see a junior enlisted or commissioned also being introduced to the door.
USMC '84-'88 Our entire company (around 200 people) used to be tested about every two weeks, and I was astonished that each time we would have 15-20 pop, usually for coke or pot. I mean, how stupid can you be when you know are going to be randomly tested, and tested often.
Great video, thanks so much for covering this incident and giving the history of the story.
I am glad to see the positive changes that came out of such a tragic accident. In the early 80s when I was in college I was AF ROTC (only did 2 years and then gave up my scholarship) and knew several AF and Navy ROTC folks. Partying was common. There was no peeing in a cup back then. Almost 4 decades later my son did NROTC at the same college. They were random tested ALL the time! Even ROTC fraternity/sorority guys/gals wouldn’t step one toe out of line.
*toe
@@gaoxiaen1 thanks. Can’t believe I missed that when I proofread. Just fixed.
Interesting to see the progression of military drug testing after my time. I was active 4 years, 75 - 79, and although there was some very limited screening back then, neither myself nor any of my fellow enlisted buddies ever got tested. The story going around back then was that the military was starving for FNGs following VN, draftees were ETSing in droves, and they would rather have dealt with a "little" pot smoking than scare off the rest of the potential volunteers. Besides, they were already experts at dealing with the alcoholics who pretty much comprised the bulk of the senior enlisted ranks since...like, forever.
Mind blowing that a young pilot fucks up and people die, which causes a drug screen for everyone it had nothing to deal with.
Thanks Mooch. I was the First Lieutenant is the VP RAG at NAS Moffett Field in 1967-68, the heyday of "Flower Power and Love, peace and Rock and Roll." The transient barracks was a veritable den of illegal drugs and we had a very difficult time of controlling it. There probably was proportional drug use in the squadron but there was never a major problem that became obvious, and at that time drug testing and program education was minimal. Thanks for another super, informative but sad video.
Landing at night on the boat, was tough as shit when completely free of any and all meds, drugs. I could not imagine being under the influence of anything. A fellow Naval aviator I knew, during my career, popped positive for cocaine. Needless to say, his flying career ended.
LT Richard “Superfreak” James?
that is an incredible amount of devastation by one man trying to prove his worth.
So many stories about Navy drug testing. Had a chief pop positive 4 times. He beat it every time. Around the same time I was temdu at Sub Squadron 16 for about 6 months. Every month the Squadron would have to text x number of people. The temdu guys always got it. So much for randomness. And finally, Van Halen was coming to town in '86 so I arranged an unofficial trip to the concert. Twenty-six of my fellow sailors went to the show that night. Of the 26, I was the only one not smoking weed. So much for the program being effective.
The only surprising piece of information in this video is that the Ordnance department just then decided to develop insensitive munitions. I would have thought the Forrest Fire incident would have led to that decision earlier.
I was Navy, from 77" - 85 never had a random urine test, Had a CDL, in 95' went to a new employer, was only employee chosen, to take the required, test over 4-others, & I didn't drive Truck for them. I was used as a "PAWN". to skirt the DOT requirement.
We had a Senior Chief MAA in 1984 got caught falsefying drug tests on sailors he did not like. Needless to say he was caught and dishonorably dischsrged. He ruined lives of good sailors.
Thank you Warda. It's very sad for those people who died and for theur families
A hundred million dollars..........Oh yeah, that will get some attention!
I'm a retired OTR trucker...... We would get orders to IMMEDIATELY REPORT to a clinic for drug testing. Immediately means now. This never happened when I was on the road but when I was at an Operating Center there was a good chance I would be tested.......I didn't mind...... It didn't bother me at all to see a driver cleaning out his truck and being walked to the gate.
The responsibilities of a Navy pilot are magnitudes greater......Why they would deliberately degrade their mental capabilities is a mystery. They certainly do know better.
I remember this! Jan 1975, I was in boot camp in San Diego, guys more senior to us who already graduated, walked back from liberty staggering by our barracks patio outside, obviously high. Going to school in Memphis, checking into the barracks, the windows were fully opened, and a large navy fan was blowing the air out the window to get rid of thick clouds of weed. I had to assume this was normal and I didn't even bother to say anything even in squadron later. Yes it was a big problem and felt pretty good with the random sampling except for the time I used the restroom before quarters, had my number called and couldn't go for another couple hours. Some poor guy had to shadow me! 😅
That's funny!
Excellent reporting Mooch!!