That phenomenon with batteries, that you just noticed, is well known. Doesn't really matter for how long you would short that cell, it would bounce back to a certain voltage, if it's working correctly. Try the same with a little lead-acid and you will notice, you won't be able to discharge it to 0v. It will keep bouncing back to around 4.5-5V, even if you shorted it for months. Chemical bonds are a powerful thing. I have seen multiple "free energy" designs, deriving their claimed "free" electricity, solely from this action. This applies also to all those old sulfated lead-acids many of us have lying around. If you have many of them, in a mixed parallel-series bank, you practically have a source of almost limitless electricity, just not much of it per unit of time.
@Rinoa: I did a quick scan of the comments, and don't see it mentioned anywhere yet: @ 8:40 when you noticed that the voltage was going back up - "This is due to the diffusion of the acid from the main body of electrolyte into the plates, resulting in an increased concentration in the plates. If the discharge has been continuous, especially if at a high rate, this rise in voltage will bring the cell up to its normal voltage very quickly on account of the more rapid diffusion of acid which will then take place." (source: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/25216/why-do-batteries-recover-after-a-load-is-removed) Hope this is helpful!
I was looking for a vid to give me a better idea as to the construction of 18650s.. I did NOT expect one so thorough. 😆. You're fascination is.. fascinating. Thank you for this. DO keep safe. 😊
Heres the cells i ripped open in this video Purple Panasonic CGR18650CF Green Panasonic CGR18650A Red Sanyo UR18650F or UR18650E Green Sony US18650GR (i kept saying Sanyo) Blue generic 18650C4
Mate, as a retired analytical chemist I applaud your curiosity and diligence for the safety gear you used and (mostly) the precautions you were taking! However - you were/are LITTERALLY “playing with fire”; you were very lucky you did not experience a huge exothermic reaction which could have readily burst into flames! The bubbling of the electrolyte you saw and commented on was how this reaction begins - the heat generated from lithium compound(s) reacting with air & water in the air was producing the heat, which was hot enough at that point to boil the electrolyte, hence the bubbling! A not too dissimilar example is; did you ever throw a small piece of sodium metal into water in your earlier chemistry classes? Well, Lithium (metal) is more reactive than sodium metal and hydrolyses water even better (more explosively) than sodium - both of which then generate hydrogen and oxygen during this process! Add a source of ignition to this mix (which if the instantaneous heat generated gets to the auto-ignition point for hydrogen (or other flammable compounds or gasses in this mix) then results in the well-publicised cells bursting into flames etc., or even results in a full explosion! If I can offer you some valuable food for thought, NEVER EVER NOT WEAR SAFETY GLASSES OR MORE PREFERABLY, A PROPPER FACE MASK when you continue on with your curiosity into these batteries or other investigations. Also, I would suggest you do not use a welders mask when doing so because if you happen to experience an “in your face” explosion, the smoked glass in it is not shatter proof and can fragment into a multitude of pieces, which could takes your eyes/sight with it! Have I ever done some risky stuff in my early days of chemistry? Yes I have, however I have always held as sacrosanct, we only have one pair of eyes - and in my opinion sight is THE most important sense organ we have!!! I wish you well in your investigations. Cheers from Down Under.
+Ian Brown honestly i wasnt too curious, i already know whats in an 18650, i just know a lot of others are curious about them so i made this video the way i did. but safety glasses can sometimes be more of a danger than a protection. they contunially fall off or obscure your vision. it really sucks when you have to take your own glasses off to wear them. if im going to wear safety gogglles i might as well just wear a face shield.
I was simply advocating you use a full face shield - which will not require removing your glasses - I wear glasses myself and can understand your comment! If you see no value in my suggestion then so be it!!
You have made quite a few poor choices in safety matters in your handling of the dismembering of the cells. Go to a decent Safety Equipment supplier. There are a number of safety goggles that go over vision correction glasses. Correctly fitted and worn safety glasses a not more of a danger than good safety glasses. Never ever work with anything that has any safety risk in your lap. If you are going to work with such risky items, they must be on a work bench that you are standing at. You must be able to back away quickly with no danger to either yourself or anything around you. And that includes not causing danger or damage to anything else on the work bench. The welders gloves that you were wearing are more of a liability than a safety item. You will find much better thinner gloves that fit better and give you better control on what you are handling. You may consider renaming yourself as you have shown nothing to suggest genius in your knowledge of Li-ion batteries or their dismantling.
On a serious note though, perhaps the oxygen reacts with the lithium and allow for current to flow freely. I've always heard that lithium reacts violently with oxygen releasing energy wildly as it reacts
18650 protected cells are protected against short circuit, you would need to drain at or below their max rated amperage which is different from one to the next. Pretty sure they all can handle a 3 amp draw safely.
I laughed when you said you used to be scared to ding or dent a 18650 and now your tearing them apart. Glad you wear proper safety material like face shields etc good video thanks
The reason they wont discharge when you short circuit them is they have a PTC overload protection device usually in the end cap - the moment the current exceeds the rating they will go OC and sit there doing nothing - to discharge these cells you need to use a resistor load that won't cause the overload to trip out. And the more advanced cells also have an under voltage protection circuit so you can't fully discharge them or over charge them.
+Stephen Humble you didnt pay attention to the video did you? also these dont have a resetable fuse in them, only a one time activated one. these have no circuits in them at all. i suggest you gain more experience regarding 18650 cells before incorrecting people.
The PTC overload is nothing more than a flat piece of plastic unless you were looking for it it would be easy to miss - AFAIK almost every 18650 cell has PTC protection probably triggers at around 15A.
Rinoa, Electrolyte is a guarded formula in the battery and capacitor manufacturers.There is an interesting read if you google "bad caps" or "buldging caps". In the early 90's there was a person that stole a formula for electrolyte and used it in capacitor manufacturing. The formula lacked a preservative and resulted in millions of capacitors getting installed in electronics. The caps eventually failed and caused billions in damage.
Nice vid! I am doing spot welding on some LG cells for a battery pack and I am interested in how thick the bottom is on these 18650s, and how close the actual "roll" inside is to the negative end of the cell. Have you consider cutting one open on the negative side? Using a DIY spot welder with no timer makes me afraid of burning trough the casing and in worst case making a fiery mess of the whole pack.
regarding voltage level after discharge, having a high voltage, does not mean the battery is charged, you want to put a load and then measure the voltage
it is possible to bypass the fuse on the battery by removing the plastic and on the plus side there is a ring which has the plus polarity and is unfused.
batteries of any type do recovery as the power storage is a chemical reaction which takes time, the electrons around the electrodes are depleted it shows 0, but then given a rest, the electrons have time to migrate from the parts of the cell that are further away from the electrodes. probably this is to to with internal resistance also, as that goes up, the usable current decreases, a "dead" cell still has sme power but it can't produce it fast enough to be useful, does not mean there is no power there, just that it can't be gotten at easily
as the internal resistance goes up, the battery can deliver (or accept) less power over the same time, so it's probably an indicator of a battery at the end of it's life, maybe they are similar as you picked the poorly charging ones to dismantle
I cut open a brand new 18650 that died before I used it other than to initially check it out. The next day, 2 new batteries were dead. When I cut one open, a gas came out. The interior was dry, not wet like the one you showed bubbling. Should the insides be wet?
I really like your video. I have always wondered " whats inside " Of those very expensive batteries. Also Being a construction worker I can really relate to your narrations. I think that the green battery that seams to be just recharging its self is tricking you. Your method of discharge using a meter has very high resistance meaning that the discharge is slow and not all consuming of the batteries power. But I am no expert and also have other thoughts that it might be.
+Brett it has been a while for battery videos, i got really burned out on this type of video in 2014 and still find it hard to do them, yet they are all im really known for.
Rinoa Super-Genius I guess you might also be known as the youtuber who chases bricks after the last 20 videos. I'm pretty sure you were one of the first on UA-cam to do an 18650 video, there are heaps now with HBPowerwall having a lot of followers doing similar things. The best way I have had the smell described to me is 'Juicy Fruit' the chewing gum. Worst part is when you have a hundred of them how do you find the one that is slowly leaking.
+Brett find a leaking cell with a high quality thermal camera. theoretically an evaporating electrolyte would lower the temp while not working, or it would get overheated while being used. :D
Hi i have a question ,can i use 2 different brand of 18650 in series or parallel?....I have 2 18650,one of them is lgeas31865 and the other Ultrafire. Both of them have the same spec 2200mah and so on....I also have an old 1978 7.4v cordless drill,that i was gonna put the battery in...Right now it ran on a 6v bike battery lol
+Fook Utube yes, but only once you do a doscharge test. i wouldnt trust an ultrafire cell. they tend to be cells ripped out of old laptop packs and relabeled without testing, all those like Ultrafire Truefire and Trustfire are wasted of money
Thanks Rino for the reply....Yea the Ultrafire came from a old cree torch and the other one from a lap top,both of them hold a charge pretty good...Im also a big fan of your battery pack video,keep it up!!...Again thanks you for your help
Yeaaahhh... I love watching this battery autopsy business hahaha... awesome idea opening the cells using a pipe cutter, very clever (much easier than my method) =] Battery POWEEEEEERRR ohh yeaahh
Could you open 2 different cells, one normal or those called laptop cells and another one used in power tools, since they have different discharge rate , or maybe you already did there an the thick conductor was the difference.
If the cell has high decredation, some parts of the substrate is isolated and can't give much of the current. Still, over the time, it charge healthier part of the cell.
Interesting video! I'm currently unraveling around 600 laptop packs to harvest their 18650 cells for a set of powerwalls, so anything 18650 related is interesting :) Nice to see a cool woman on such YT channels for a change too!
well i'm glad you enjoy it. i currently have bins of like 900 cells that i'm trying to test. i made the mistake in asking my friend who owns a recycling center in silicon valley to save all the laptop packs for me, so i ended up getting several hundred. although for like 1$ a pound. then i bought a nissan leaf battery. i got too many batteries. haha i'm working on something similar, like a powerwall but designed to lay flat on the concrete ledge in my basement. i plan to have it just run LED lighting and maybe some power tools first :D
no i'm trying to measure how much power they would discharge if shorted out. also you can see if the internal fuse is popped or not because almost no cell would give 0ma.
any chance you can do a discharge test with a cell frozen in the freezer and see how much it looses capacity wise as to normal room temp, even discharging it in the freezer i cant see it losing that much capacity tbh but will be a good test to try anyway ;)
Rinoa, I think it was this video that "BigCliveDotCom" was referring to when he was taking apart a Lithium Ion battery for himself! It was pure luck that I found yours :) Cheers.
I have taken a part a pouch cell before (not sure if it is Sanyo or not) but it had that same sweet sickly smell. I wonder if the electrolyte is made by Sanyo or another manufacturer that sells to multiple lithium cell manufacturer's? And good video
Hi Rinoa, great vid! Though, I'm curious about you smelling the chems of cut-open cells like that. We hear all these stories about fluoride-containing electrolytes forming hydrofluoric acid in an event of vent or thermic runaway. HF is highly toxic, deceptive (no immediate symptoms of poisoning) and there's no antidote for it (except calcium gluconate injections). How do you know it's ok to smell what's inside those cells?
+Ivan Bartsov i dont, just like i dont know if the food i eat is ok, or if riding in a car wont get me killed. however i trust that doing this wont harm me, its not like im smelling them all the time.
It is still a chance to repair battery with broken connection. Just push a piece under the + connection (you need to go there by using small wire or cut first + connection and push.
Yes but if you use only one cell for low power products it still working - charging and discharging. It can be damaged because of short or difference between any other cell in pararel conection and it generated high current. By repairing broken connection it still working. As you can see you had one cell fully charged and you destroyed it (it was dangerous and that cell might explode).
On the flat top 18650 would it be alright to put a wire in the holes on the + cap. I ask this because it is hard to Solder on a top cap and make it stick. BTW nice video.
Can you define what you mean by overheat? I have salvaged cells that get warm during charging but they were touchable. Is H H H so hot it is uncomfortable to keep touching?? THX.
if you charge them at 0.5C (500ma for every 1000mah it has so normally 1a) and it gets to a temperature at or above your hand temp, id be suspicious. charging at 1c and it getting noticeably warm is still bad. that heat is wasted electricity, so you could also see a bad cell takes like 3,000mah to charge but only gives back 1,200mah, because like 1,800mah was wasted as heat during charging. a good cell has an almost symetrical charge. where like a 2,000mah cell takes like 2,200mah to charge. but i'm mostly guessing on that last one, i dont personally record the charge mah, only if i notice it taking more than like 3,000mah to charge or is warm do i get suspicious.
You know that the Oracle of Delphi would look at the entrails of animals to predict the future. I am guessing your a Modern Day Pythias ~ High Priestess of Science peering into technology and prophesying its obsolescence as did the three goddesses, Atropos, Clotho, and Lachesis man.
hey rinoa i bought many brand new 18650 panasonic and sanyo cells, and when i use my multimeter to check the amperage on them fully charged they all say 1400-1550 mah , despite them being rated for 2250mah ... do you know why this might be ? i cant seem to understand . i used my imax b6 to fully charge them ps: i bought two different types brand new from 2 different people on ebay , and i have over 50 of them , they all say the same thing: 4.2 volts @ 1400-1550mah , also my multimeter is rated 10 amps
you dont use multimeters to check mah. you need to us the imax b6 to discharge them. amp-hours are a unit of power and time, a multimeter doesnt take time into account.
I have noticed moth lithium cells have a strange artificial banana smell to them. I actually like the smell. Its kinda like gasoline in a small way. That magic Panasonic cell though is awesome. But this is why 18650's have quickly became so popular. They can take a good beating (work load wise) and still work. I work at a battery store so you get to experience weird things a normal person wouldn't. I can tell you the smell of almost every kind of battery venting and what I recommend for certain applications. I have found a new love for sealed lead acid batteries. You can get A LOT of power in a small package and fairly cheap. They also aren't as dangerous as lithium cells but I still prefer lithium for most things.
Set your DMM, to current, then connect to the battery, t will discharge fast enough, for you to see it the current drop. I have done this many times to discharge a battery..
I used to watch your stuff and then unsubscribe after just overdosing on your contents. Anyway back for the first time after a while and a great video from you. Nice to see you have gone from strength to strength. I have also just started uploading a few video too and all that good stuff. Thanks for sharing regards Chris.
Dude, you're awesome and I'm jealous of your hair ATM. We could be best friends because we would get along so well. Everyone would think we were brothers.
Very educative. At 10:37 you smell electrolyte... did you ever read an MSDS? The organic solvent might be only dangerous, but additives (unknown to you) might be nastily toxic. There are kids watching this, don't you have the slightest sense of responsibility?
I think this is a bad idea to cutt these type off battries. You could get cells energy back by pressing the surface under ty cap. There are 6 hole in its cap . From these holes just insert a thin screw driver and press the surface under the cap. You should hear the gass discharge and the cell vill be back to life.
I made my first comment before watching your entire video. I did not realize that you created a dead short on those batteries. Maybe the dead short opens the battery circuit becaues of heat and when it cools you have a battery with charge again. I will keep watching and learning.
I'm not sure if she missed some kind of a series PTC fuse that just turned into high resistance mode just after shorting and relaxed when she tested the cell's short-circuit again in the basement.
Ripping apart battery cells. Always a fun experience, fun being subjective. I remember watching someone hitting one with a hammer directly on the end. Fire everywhere.
same, i got pretty stressed while filming this video. evidence of that is the multiple fire extinguishers i had with me and all the protective gear, i almost never do that. haha
I don't get why you kept the dark lens flipped down when you could have flipped it to up position since there's a clear protective lens behind it, other than comedy dork value. You should get into the habit of always measuring black negative red positive, I know there's not much issue here, but please, safe practices!
"discharge for 6 hours and it's still holding power"... the power discharged should be measured in watts, not amps or volts. It might be that the cell has almost no power and is discharging mWh or uWh over hours. It may have a voltage with no load, and then the v drops to near 0 with a load... so you may have high amps but still very low power dissipation. To solve the mystery, I suggest reading the voltage and amps under the same load. If it was shorted 6 hours I'd expect it to drive current through only a small resistance, eg. perhaps 50 mV with 1 ohm resistor = 50 mA. It'd be interesting to hear how a shorted, dead battery that still reads high amps, measures up under a reasonable load!
+j8wydf6 thanks mister obvious. the mystery is how such a cell could have such a high internal resistance, not how electricity works. this cell doesnt work like any ive seen before. i would have expected a cell this bad to just die already
i'm glad you enjoyed it! i might make a blast chamber out of some bricks and try to make a bunch of them blow up soon. It should look pretty cool through my new thermal camera. >:D
Rinoa Super-Genius do it, do it!!! Would be even more amazing if you could borrow a high speed can from the local college science dept, and get hold of some decent thickness perspex. 👍
Well here I go commenting again on your awesome videos!...lol First off let me say some of your recommendations are epic, I am LOVING Sargon and The post Apocalyptic inventor.. LOVE His Scarps foam raft that was amazing! anyhow sorry just saying thank you for pointing me to some awesome vids.. I`m finding myself on UA-cam Way more than FB even now these days but anyhow enough with the rant her3e. I saw a video and documentary once a while back on the making of lithium ions 18650 cells and they showed the process and stated that it was basically standardized thru the industry, they disassemble and tear apart cells also to see what the problems might be qc etc, what they do is there is actually a "safe :seam so to speak and their techs have a machine kinds like your pipe cutter but a little more industrial so to speak, they remove the top and bottom of the cells and they do bubble when they are semi defective they said, didn`t say to much more but there is if you look under well a microscope a seam on it with a very tiny cut window and they used an exacto type or style knife to slice open the sides, barely any pressure used then they just unrolled it, I`m pretty sure it was like a how its made episode or something like it I wish I could remember more on it... anyhow just learning how much I`m enjoying interacting , thanks again for a great vid
oh did i mention Sargon? i think i did but cant remember when. and yeah i like to watch Sargon and other's videos tearing through arguments while i eat lunch. especially when somebody tears through bad feminist BS, some of the vocal minority in the LGBT community and 3rd wave feminism can be almost comically outrageous and self-centered. haha if you want any more recommendations i'd say The Drunken Peasants, the channels on my main page's "channels i enjoy" tab, and them more people with Sargon-type videos such as Armored Skeptic, Logiked, and Thunderf00t. Thunderf00t does myth-killing videos where he tears down like BS kickstarter ideas that have scientific issues, plus he's a physicist. :D and thats cool about the documentary, i fucking love shows like that.
that "channels i enjoy" tab is a list of people who i enjoy and who i also consider as friends, ranging from most interesting/closest friends at the top to people i chat with every so often at the bottom. but all of them make me happy when i see they've uploaded something. maybe i'm desperate for having friends but i also think they are just really amazing people. they inspire me a lot. its hard to figure out how to organize them tbh.
Hi the 18650 was bubbling because lithium reacts with the oxygen and water in the air. you should save the lithium metal which is light grey and try making your own diy battery :) p.s dropping lithium in water is fun
but its not pure lithium, its lithium cobalt oxide already. theres only like 3% lithium in a lithium-ion battery. you have to get primary lithium cells for pure lithium. also i'd recommend going down the column of alkali metals to get more reactive elements.
I fly model airplanes and miniquads and stuff and we use the pouch style lipos and sometimes when we crash the cell gets punctures and that fruity smell Is something I know all too well! and that was the best description of perfume I've ever heard 😂
![Cutting open an LG 18650 battery for science [ amateur video warning ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/per8ybI55bI/mqdefault.jpg)
That phenomenon with batteries, that you just noticed, is well known. Doesn't really matter for how long you would short that cell, it would bounce back to a certain voltage, if it's working correctly. Try the same with a little lead-acid and you will notice, you won't be able to discharge it to 0v. It will keep bouncing back to around 4.5-5V, even if you shorted it for months. Chemical bonds are a powerful thing. I have seen multiple "free energy" designs, deriving their claimed "free" electricity, solely from this action. This applies also to all those old sulfated lead-acids many of us have lying around. If you have many of them, in a mixed parallel-series bank, you practically have a source of almost limitless electricity, just not much of it per unit of time.
@Rinoa: I did a quick scan of the comments, and don't see it mentioned anywhere yet: @ 8:40 when you noticed that the voltage was going back up - "This is due to the diffusion of the acid from the main body of electrolyte into the plates, resulting in an increased concentration in the plates. If the discharge has been continuous, especially if at a high rate, this rise in voltage will bring the cell up to its normal voltage very quickly on account of the more rapid diffusion of acid which will then take place." (source: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/25216/why-do-batteries-recover-after-a-load-is-removed)
Hope this is helpful!
I was looking for a vid to give me a better idea as to the construction of 18650s.. I did NOT expect one so thorough. 😆. You're fascination is.. fascinating. Thank you for this. DO keep safe. 😊
Heres the cells i ripped open in this video
Purple Panasonic CGR18650CF
Green Panasonic CGR18650A
Red Sanyo UR18650F or UR18650E
Green Sony US18650GR (i kept saying Sanyo)
Blue generic 18650C4
Rinoa Super-Genius too bad you couldn't tear down a LG cell
Rinoa Super-Genius love your videos
dont think i've ever seen an LG cell, and i've handled a lot of fucking cells.
just to let you know the green US18650GR is a Sony cell
ah shit, your right.
Thanks for taking the risk and showing us what's in these. I own 7,104 Panasonic 18650s, and I've always been curious what the insides look like.
Mate, as a retired analytical chemist I applaud your
curiosity and diligence for the safety gear you used and (mostly) the
precautions you were taking! However - you were/are LITTERALLY “playing with
fire”; you were very lucky you did not experience a huge exothermic reaction
which could have readily burst into flames! The bubbling of the electrolyte you
saw and commented on was how this reaction begins - the heat generated from
lithium compound(s) reacting with air & water in the air was producing the
heat, which was hot enough at that point to boil the electrolyte, hence the
bubbling! A not too dissimilar example
is; did you ever throw a small piece of sodium metal into water in your earlier
chemistry classes? Well, Lithium (metal) is more reactive than sodium metal and
hydrolyses water even better (more explosively) than sodium - both of which then
generate hydrogen and oxygen during this process! Add a source of ignition to
this mix (which if the instantaneous heat generated gets to the auto-ignition
point for hydrogen (or other flammable compounds or gasses in this mix) then
results in the well-publicised cells bursting into flames etc., or even results
in a full explosion!
If I can offer you some valuable food for thought, NEVER
EVER NOT WEAR SAFETY GLASSES OR MORE PREFERABLY, A PROPPER FACE MASK when you
continue on with your curiosity into these batteries or other investigations. Also, I would suggest you do not use a welders
mask when doing so because if you happen to experience an “in your face”
explosion, the smoked glass in it is not shatter proof and can fragment into a
multitude of pieces, which could takes your eyes/sight with it!
Have I ever done some risky stuff in my early days of
chemistry? Yes I have, however I have always held as sacrosanct, we only have
one pair of eyes - and in my opinion sight is THE most important sense organ we
have!!! I wish you well in your investigations. Cheers from Down Under.
+Ian Brown honestly i wasnt too curious, i already know whats in an 18650, i just know a lot of others are curious about them so i made this video the way i did.
but safety glasses can sometimes be more of a danger than a protection. they contunially fall off or obscure your vision. it really sucks when you have to take your own glasses off to wear them. if im going to wear safety gogglles i might as well just wear a face shield.
I was simply advocating you use a full face shield - which will not require removing your glasses - I wear glasses myself and can understand your comment! If you see no value in my suggestion then so be it!!
You have made quite a few poor choices in safety matters in your handling of the dismembering of the cells.
Go to a decent Safety Equipment supplier. There are a number of safety goggles that go over vision correction glasses. Correctly fitted and worn safety glasses a not more of a danger than good safety glasses.
Never ever work with anything that has any safety risk in your lap. If you are going to work with such risky items, they must be on a work bench that you are standing at. You must be able to back away quickly with no danger to either yourself or anything around you. And that includes not causing danger or damage to anything else on the work bench.
The welders gloves that you were wearing are more of a liability than a safety item. You will find much better thinner gloves that fit better and give you better control on what you are handling.
You may consider renaming yourself as you have shown nothing to suggest genius in your knowledge of Li-ion batteries or their dismantling.
On a serious note though, perhaps the oxygen reacts with the lithium and allow for current to flow freely. I've always heard that lithium reacts violently with oxygen releasing energy wildly as it reacts
there is no lithium metal in here, its a lithium oxide already. i think its just a fucked cell.
18650 protected cells are protected against short circuit, you would need to drain at or below their max rated amperage which is different from one to the next. Pretty sure they all can handle a 3 amp draw safely.
I laughed when you said you used to be scared to ding or dent a 18650 and now your tearing them apart. Glad you wear proper safety material like face shields etc good video thanks
The reason they wont discharge when you short circuit them is they have a PTC overload protection device usually in the end cap - the moment the current exceeds the rating they will go OC and sit there doing nothing - to discharge these cells you need to use a resistor load that won't cause the overload to trip out.
And the more advanced cells also have an under voltage protection circuit so you can't fully discharge them or over charge them.
+Stephen Humble you didnt pay attention to the video did you? also these dont have a resetable fuse in them, only a one time activated one. these have no circuits in them at all. i suggest you gain more experience regarding 18650 cells before incorrecting people.
The PTC overload is nothing more than a flat piece of plastic unless you were looking for it it would be easy to miss - AFAIK almost every 18650 cell has PTC protection probably triggers at around 15A.
Has a good diagram of the PTC location.
batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/18306003-battery-safety-101-anatomy-ptc-vs-pcb-vs-cid
Rinoa, Electrolyte is a guarded formula in the battery and capacitor manufacturers.There is an interesting read if you google "bad caps" or "buldging caps". In the early 90's there was a person that stole a formula for electrolyte and used it in capacitor manufacturing. The formula lacked a preservative and resulted in millions of capacitors getting installed in electronics. The caps eventually failed and caused billions in damage.
Nice vid! I am doing spot welding on some LG cells for a battery pack and I am interested in how thick the bottom is on these 18650s, and how close the actual
"roll" inside is to the negative end of the cell. Have you consider cutting one open on the negative side?
Using a DIY spot welder with no timer makes me afraid of burning trough the casing and in worst case making a fiery mess of the whole pack.
yeah spot welder can be scary, i still just solder then with a great big soldering iron and have never had any issues
regarding voltage level after discharge, having a high voltage, does not mean the battery is charged, you want to put a load and then measure the voltage
it is possible to bypass the fuse on the battery by removing the plastic and on the plus side there is a ring which has the plus polarity and is unfused.
batteries of any type do recovery as the power storage is a chemical reaction which takes time, the electrons around the electrodes are depleted it shows 0, but then given a rest, the electrons have time to migrate from the parts of the cell that are further away from the electrodes.
probably this is to to with internal resistance also, as that goes up, the usable current decreases, a "dead" cell still has sme power but it can't produce it fast enough to be useful, does not mean there is no power there, just that it can't be gotten at easily
yeah i know buts its just a surprising amount of resistance.
as the internal resistance goes up, the battery can deliver (or accept) less power over the same time, so it's probably an indicator of a battery at the end of it's life, maybe they are similar as you picked the poorly charging ones to dismantle
kinda curious to see what a 35 amp batteries looks like on the inside
18650's can be rated up to 30A. LG HB2's for example look exactly the same.
i think they have ptc fuses. The fuse trips when shorted and stays tripped. When you unshort the ends it resets the fuse
It's because the chemical that they use is an electrolyte forms a benzene ring it may be a phenolic compound or similar chemistry
I want to try a some mode for increase the discharge capacity
I cut open a brand new 18650 that died before I used it other than to initially check it out. The next day, 2 new batteries were dead. When I cut one open, a gas came out. The interior was dry, not wet like the one you showed bubbling. Should the insides be wet?
I broke up in laughter when you were discharging the green cell
"BATTERY MAY EXPLODE OR FIRE IF MISTREATED" ... as its sitting in its own electrolyte.
"ey you fucking battery i hate your green color!" *BOOOOM* *house burns down*
😂😂😂
I really like your video. I have always wondered " whats inside " Of those very expensive batteries. Also Being a construction worker I can really relate to your narrations. I think that the green battery that seams to be just recharging its self is tricking you. Your method of discharge using a meter has very high resistance meaning that the discharge is slow and not all consuming of the batteries power. But I am no expert and also have other thoughts that it might be.
Just so you know if one of those batteries caught fire the fire extinguisher would kinda be useless. Metal fires are almost impossible to put out.
Fire extinguisher isn't to put out the fire, it's to stop it from spreading as it burns out
@@RinoaL Oh okay, makes sense.
When I rip off the tabbing the bottom of the battery tends to pop up a little, what effects does this have on the cell?
Good to see an electronics related video, it feels like it's been a while
+Brett it has been a while for battery videos, i got really burned out on this type of video in 2014 and still find it hard to do them, yet they are all im really known for.
Rinoa Super-Genius I guess you might also be known as the youtuber who chases bricks after the last 20 videos. I'm pretty sure you were one of the first on UA-cam to do an 18650 video, there are heaps now with HBPowerwall having a lot of followers doing similar things.
The best way I have had the smell described to me is 'Juicy Fruit' the chewing gum. Worst part is when you have a hundred of them how do you find the one that is slowly leaking.
+Brett find a leaking cell with a high quality thermal camera. theoretically an evaporating electrolyte would lower the temp while not working, or it would get overheated while being used. :D
I’m trying to fly my drone with this battery but i couldn’t because the discharge capacity is low
Hi i have a question ,can i use 2 different brand of 18650 in series or parallel?....I have 2 18650,one of them is lgeas31865 and the other Ultrafire. Both of them have the same spec 2200mah and so on....I also have an old 1978 7.4v cordless drill,that i was gonna put the battery in...Right now it ran on a 6v bike battery lol
+Fook Utube yes, but only once you do a doscharge test. i wouldnt trust an ultrafire cell. they tend to be cells ripped out of old laptop packs and relabeled without testing, all those like Ultrafire Truefire and Trustfire are wasted of money
Thanks Rino for the reply....Yea the Ultrafire came from a old cree torch and the other one from a lap top,both of them hold a charge pretty good...Im also a big fan of your battery pack video,keep it up!!...Again thanks you for your help
i wanted to see the safety mechanism on positive side i heard they have some switch or fuse something
It’s difficult to see because it is more of a failure valve thing
@@RinoaL yes i saw it i had to open one up it like a disc more like thermal disc or pressure disc that can move up and down act more like switch
The low Amp ones are super safe so 10a or less but any that at 15a or high can discharge fast enough to melt and ignite stuff inside and around it
CommanderWolfyX Um no. Low amp ones tend to be much more likely to explode, because often the are the high capacity.
Yeaaahhh... I love watching this battery autopsy business hahaha... awesome idea opening the cells using a pipe cutter, very clever (much easier than my method) =]
Battery POWEEEEEERRR ohh yeaahh
I'm not gonna lie, I really wanted a cell to catch on fire (without hurting you), it makes a good show ^^
i agree, thats why i wore my blacksmithing apron and welding helmet. haha
Could you open 2 different cells, one normal or those called laptop cells and another one used in power tools, since they have different discharge rate , or maybe you already did there an the thick conductor was the difference.
What you were smelling is not the electrolyte but the solvent the electrolyte is dissolved in. The electrolyte is Lithium Hexafluorophosphate.
i think wen you introduce open cell to air it reacts with it and produces voltage
Adnan Mlivo - Yup. Lithium is unhappy in the zero oxidation state. It really wants to be oxidized.
Crocellian i opened sonyo one 2 days ago and same thing happened ! i guess u r rite !
Alaska?
Can you changue the discharge capacity?
no, requires different cell chemistry, and built in different way
If the cell has high decredation, some parts of the substrate is isolated and can't give much of the current. Still, over the time, it charge healthier part of the cell.
Pls tell me where I can get a pair of those gloves
Maybe a link to those gloves
the hobart ones? they are like 12$ at Rural King. i have like 12 pairs and like them a lot.
Thanks nice video by the way I wish I could meet you
Rinoa Super-Genius Thanks nice video by the way I wish I could meet you
Interesting video! I'm currently unraveling around 600 laptop packs to harvest their 18650 cells for a set of powerwalls, so anything 18650 related is interesting :)
Nice to see a cool woman on such YT channels for a change too!
well i'm glad you enjoy it. i currently have bins of like 900 cells that i'm trying to test. i made the mistake in asking my friend who owns a recycling center in silicon valley to save all the laptop packs for me, so i ended up getting several hundred. although for like 1$ a pound. then i bought a nissan leaf battery. i got too many batteries. haha
i'm working on something similar, like a powerwall but designed to lay flat on the concrete ledge in my basement. i plan to have it just run LED lighting and maybe some power tools first :D
2:36 Is the meter supposed to be on the 10A range? aren't you trying to measure the voltage?
Not sure what you're trying to test here
no i'm trying to measure how much power they would discharge if shorted out. also you can see if the internal fuse is popped or not because almost no cell would give 0ma.
I see, thank you for the information.
Really interesting video thanks for being so brave and putting in so much time so we can see inside
is those cells dead? mine have four dead cells
any chance you can do a discharge test with a cell frozen in the freezer and see how much it looses capacity wise as to normal room temp, even discharging it in the freezer i cant see it losing that much capacity tbh but will be a good test to try anyway ;)
why not an Internal current limit that shuts down the battery at high loads (aka dead short)
emilee Circuit Interrupt Device (CID) ?
Rinoa, I think it was this video that "BigCliveDotCom" was referring to when he was taking apart a Lithium Ion battery for himself! It was pure luck that I found yours :) Cheers.
I have taken a part a pouch cell before (not sure if it is Sanyo or not) but it had that same sweet sickly smell.
I wonder if the electrolyte is made by Sanyo or another manufacturer that sells to multiple lithium cell manufacturer's?
And good video
Where do you throw the toxic waste when you are done?
dont know, i dont deal with toxic waste.
It's like the battery hurt locker....As a kid I dismantled everything, its a good way to learn :)
nice welding helmet...where do you buy it? please
Hi Rinoa, great vid! Though, I'm curious about you smelling the chems of cut-open cells like that. We hear all these stories about fluoride-containing electrolytes forming hydrofluoric acid in an event of vent or thermic runaway. HF is highly toxic, deceptive (no immediate symptoms of poisoning) and there's no antidote for it (except calcium gluconate injections). How do you know it's ok to smell what's inside those cells?
+Ivan Bartsov i dont, just like i dont know if the food i eat is ok, or if riding in a car wont get me killed. however i trust that doing this wont harm me, its not like im smelling them all the time.
It is still a chance to repair battery with broken connection. Just push a piece under the + connection (you need to go there by using small wire or cut first + connection and push.
that is a horrible idea.
Yes but if you use only one cell for low power products it still working - charging and discharging. It can be damaged because of short or difference between any other cell in pararel conection and it generated high current. By repairing broken connection it still working. As you can see you had one cell fully charged and you destroyed it (it was dangerous and that cell might explode).
On the flat top 18650 would it be alright to put a wire in the holes on the + cap. I ask this because it is hard to Solder on a top cap and make it stick. BTW nice video.
no
You should find out what is causing that battery to recharge itself so you can recreate it and then you have something great to sale.
Can you define what you mean by overheat? I have salvaged cells that get warm during charging but they were touchable. Is H H H so hot it is uncomfortable to keep touching?? THX.
if you charge them at 0.5C (500ma for every 1000mah it has so normally 1a) and it gets to a temperature at or above your hand temp, id be suspicious. charging at 1c and it getting noticeably warm is still bad.
that heat is wasted electricity, so you could also see a bad cell takes like 3,000mah to charge but only gives back 1,200mah, because like 1,800mah was wasted as heat during charging. a good cell has an almost symetrical charge. where like a 2,000mah cell takes like 2,200mah to charge. but i'm mostly guessing on that last one, i dont personally record the charge mah, only if i notice it taking more than like 3,000mah to charge or is warm do i get suspicious.
You know that the Oracle of Delphi would look at the entrails of animals to predict the future. I am guessing your a Modern Day Pythias ~ High Priestess of Science peering into technology and prophesying its obsolescence as did the three goddesses, Atropos, Clotho, and Lachesis man.
LOL, you could have used those batteries to perpetually charge your mobile phone!!! Nice, entertaining video!
hey rinoa i bought many brand new 18650 panasonic and sanyo cells, and when i use my multimeter to check the amperage on them fully charged they all say 1400-1550 mah , despite them being rated for 2250mah ... do you know why this might be ? i cant seem to understand . i used my imax b6 to fully charge them
ps: i bought two different types brand new from 2 different people on ebay , and i have over 50 of them , they all say the same thing: 4.2 volts @ 1400-1550mah , also my multimeter is rated 10 amps
you dont use multimeters to check mah. you need to us the imax b6 to discharge them.
amp-hours are a unit of power and time, a multimeter doesnt take time into account.
*****
when its less than a few amps, yeah
I have noticed moth lithium cells have a strange artificial banana smell to them. I actually like the smell. Its kinda like gasoline in a small way. That magic Panasonic cell though is awesome. But this is why 18650's have quickly became so popular. They can take a good beating (work load wise) and still work. I work at a battery store so you get to experience weird things a normal person wouldn't. I can tell you the smell of almost every kind of battery venting and what I recommend for certain applications. I have found a new love for sealed lead acid batteries. You can get A LOT of power in a small package and fairly cheap. They also aren't as dangerous as lithium cells but I still prefer lithium for most things.
Where can I pickup some of those self charging cells? Lol
Those would give me some crazy range on my eboard
Set your DMM, to current, then connect to the battery, t will discharge fast enough, for you to see it the current drop. I have done this many times to discharge a battery..
thats what i did, took about 9 hours total to get that one cell sufficiently discharged but not all the way.
I used to watch your stuff and then unsubscribe after just overdosing on your contents. Anyway back for the first time after a while and a great video from you. Nice to see you have gone from strength to strength. I have also just started uploading a few video too and all that good stuff. Thanks for sharing regards Chris.
Its called cell recovery why the voltage went back up
Nah, top Boeing explanation. There ares a few pocket dimensiones incide that cell
Dude, you're awesome and I'm jealous of your hair ATM. We could be best friends because we would get along so well. Everyone would think we were brothers.
Very educative. At 10:37 you smell electrolyte... did you ever read an MSDS? The organic solvent might be only dangerous, but additives (unknown to you) might be nastily toxic. There are kids watching this, don't you have the slightest sense of responsibility?
Hey is there a way I can send you a picture of my battery pack like through skype or something
why? i see enough batteries as it is.
Rinoa Super-Genius wanted to know your thoughts on what mine looked like.
Cody196
my thoughts dont matter, it only matters how well it works.
The copper foil has graphite on it while the other foil is aluminium and that has the LiCoO2. Thanks though. I needed to see how this look
I think this is a bad idea to cutt these type off battries. You could get cells energy back by pressing the surface under ty cap. There are 6 hole in its cap . From these holes just insert a thin screw driver and press the surface under the cap. You should hear the gass discharge and the cell vill be back to life.
+Imran Arain that is a very bad idea and unsafe.
Imran Arain The CID, right ?
I made my first comment before watching your entire video. I did not realize that you created a dead short on those batteries. Maybe the dead short opens the battery circuit becaues of heat and when it cools you have a battery with charge again. I will keep watching and learning.
*Something clicks*
*Automatically proceeds to lift mask and point explosive battery at face*
nice vid btw
This is fantastic! Good job :)
thanks
You found the super battery.
Is this normal to have so many bad batteries? Do Teslas suffer from having say, one bad battery like that fizzy one in the middle of their pack ? 🤔
well these very very low quality cells that were abused, teslas cells have a higher production standard
The Panasonic cell is obviously the answer to the world's energy problems! 😂
+eLJaybud one femtowatt at a time
I'm not sure if she missed some kind of a series PTC fuse that just turned into high resistance mode just after shorting and relaxed when she tested the cell's short-circuit again in the basement.
if the cell has internal protection, shorting it will do nothing, as the protection circuit will clamp.
+todkapuz but in the almost 1,000 18650s ive gotten only one was protected
protected cells... shuts down the circuit when over their amp rating -- i think thats why it was beeping when you tested the amps...
these are not protected cells.
(Smiling) "It's so unsafe." I love this video.
Super genius, super batteries, super test! .. I mean it's ok.
and she's cute too!
It's like surgery mixed with bomb defusing xD
Damn you maybe got a gremlin infestation, they like to play with the angry pixies apparently.
electron gremlins!
Haha ! That's the worst kind, they hide everywhere nowadays.
love your experiments. sweet video
I've always thought the stuff smells like bubble gum.. nice smell but you don't want to smell it coming from any equipment
weird, i've never thought that but i could see that, but i dont like gum so maybe thats why i dont think of it.
On Candlepowerforums they call it "flashahol".
Ripping apart battery cells. Always a fun experience, fun being subjective. I remember watching someone hitting one with a hammer directly on the end. Fire everywhere.
being an idiot is the non-fun part there, not the 18650. lol
True, but fortunately I have a healthy fear of things that go boom when mishandled.
same, i got pretty stressed while filming this video. evidence of that is the multiple fire extinguishers i had with me and all the protective gear, i almost never do that. haha
you should try hard shorting a fresh sony vtc4. that would be fun to watch.
liked the video.
yep i bet that would make a good click bait video, 18650 on fire, be easy to make a jig to short a cell from a safe distance!
+jusb1066 i want to make a thing to short like 30 cells all at once and so you get to see which ones go first
would you sacrifice some nice cells not just semi bad ones? for science? maybe even buy a couple of nice panasonics for effect?
also gotta throw some super cheap chinesy laptop ones in, gotta see the fight!
U reminded me of Doc Brown putting plutonium in the time machine.
i'm ok with that, haha
I don't get why you kept the dark lens flipped down when you could have flipped it to up position since there's a clear protective lens behind it, other than comedy dork value.
You should get into the habit of always measuring black negative red positive, I know there's not much issue here, but please, safe practices!
because i dont have a dark lens in this one.
and why black negative and red positive?
I got a bunch of 18 650s if you want them
"discharge for 6 hours and it's still holding power"... the power discharged should be measured in watts, not amps or volts. It might be that the cell has almost no power and is discharging mWh or uWh over hours. It may have a voltage with no load, and then the v drops to near 0 with a load... so you may have high amps but still very low power dissipation. To solve the mystery, I suggest reading the voltage and amps under the same load. If it was shorted 6 hours I'd expect it to drive current through only a small resistance, eg. perhaps 50 mV with 1 ohm resistor = 50 mA. It'd be interesting to hear how a shorted, dead battery that still reads high amps, measures up under a reasonable load!
+j8wydf6 thanks mister obvious. the mystery is how such a cell could have such a high internal resistance, not how electricity works. this cell doesnt work like any ive seen before. i would have expected a cell this bad to just die already
I know people who as kids used to recover cordite from old shells with less safety gear than this. 😂
You are wild haha. Must get bored a lot 😂
Theh CID popped it didn't discharge
Clayton Mascarenhas Circuit Interrupt Device ? 🤔
Great science discoveries come with the words ... "That's odd"
Or in this case ... WTF :)
nice video home girl! lovely attitude plus good info not a dull moment, keep it up!
i'm glad you enjoyed it! i might make a blast chamber out of some bricks and try to make a bunch of them blow up soon. It should look pretty cool through my new thermal camera. >:D
Rinoa Super-Genius do it, do it!!!
Would be even more amazing if you could borrow a high speed can from the local college science dept, and get hold of some decent thickness perspex.
👍
these electrolytes are so violent that they may be made of lemur guts
Printed, rolled, pressed and sealed. No cramming into tubes, the tubes are pressed onto them.
is there a difference?
Only if you enjoy constructing the process in your head. Sort of like origami... I believe I dropped you a message. It isn't time sensitive.
Well here I go commenting again on your awesome videos!...lol First off let me say some of your recommendations are epic, I am LOVING Sargon and The post Apocalyptic inventor.. LOVE His Scarps foam raft that was amazing! anyhow sorry just saying thank you for pointing me to some awesome vids.. I`m finding myself on UA-cam Way more than FB even now these days but anyhow enough with the rant her3e. I saw a video and documentary once a while back on the making of lithium ions 18650 cells and they showed the process and stated that it was basically standardized thru the industry, they disassemble and tear apart cells also to see what the problems might be qc etc, what they do is there is actually a "safe :seam so to speak and their techs have a machine kinds like your pipe cutter but a little more industrial so to speak, they remove the top and bottom of the cells and they do bubble when they are semi defective they said, didn`t say to much more but there is if you look under well a microscope a seam on it with a very tiny cut window and they used an exacto type or style knife to slice open the sides, barely any pressure used then they just unrolled it, I`m pretty sure it was like a how its made episode or something like it I wish I could remember more on it... anyhow just learning how much I`m enjoying interacting , thanks again for a great vid
oh did i mention Sargon? i think i did but cant remember when. and yeah i like to watch Sargon and other's videos tearing through arguments while i eat lunch. especially when somebody tears through bad feminist BS, some of the vocal minority in the LGBT community and 3rd wave feminism can be almost comically outrageous and self-centered. haha
if you want any more recommendations i'd say The Drunken Peasants, the channels on my main page's "channels i enjoy" tab, and them more people with Sargon-type videos such as Armored Skeptic, Logiked, and Thunderf00t. Thunderf00t does myth-killing videos where he tears down like BS kickstarter ideas that have scientific issues, plus he's a physicist. :D
and thats cool about the documentary, i fucking love shows like that.
I never even knew that channels you enjoyed tab was there I`m all up in it now...lol
that "channels i enjoy" tab is a list of people who i enjoy and who i also consider as friends, ranging from most interesting/closest friends at the top to people i chat with every so often at the bottom. but all of them make me happy when i see they've uploaded something. maybe i'm desperate for having friends but i also think they are just really amazing people. they inspire me a lot. its hard to figure out how to organize them tbh.
I noticed there is a gas station pump next to your house?
Hi the 18650 was bubbling because lithium reacts with the oxygen and water in the air. you should save the lithium metal which is light grey and try making your own diy battery :) p.s dropping lithium in water is fun
but its not pure lithium, its lithium cobalt oxide already. theres only like 3% lithium in a lithium-ion battery. you have to get primary lithium cells for pure lithium. also i'd recommend going down the column of alkali metals to get more reactive elements.
that's it im in love wish more women had your mentality and practical skills keep it up love the vids to
thanks, although i wish everybody had more practical skills. so many people i see are fucking useless!
The battery smelling session made me subscribe 😂😂😂
casey emslie I just added the video to my Liked Videos instead. 😋😄
My strange addiction: Snorting batteries ;D
Drop the mic, that was awesome your bonkers in a good way. I can relate I've been playing with these as well. Great vid's thanks
I fly model airplanes and miniquads and stuff and we use the pouch style lipos and sometimes when we crash the cell gets punctures and that fruity smell Is something I know all too well! and that was the best description of perfume I've ever heard 😂