To everyone who commented about The Bone Ships trilogy, I hear you! I’ll reconsider this one. I do have the ebooks so maybe you’ll see a review of this series in the future. Thanks for the great discussion around the topics in this video, it’s been great! Keep it coming.
I have such a problem with big books that you just hear tons about, so you end up knowing everything about it before even picking it up. It absolutely destroys any desire to actually read it.
@@bookswithzara No idea what theyre really talking about tbh although i havent read them in close to a decade now. Brent weeks books can get weird with the women sometimes and i noticed that so i don't think its just that im blind to that sort of thing. The first two games especially game one can get juvenile with the way it handles relationships but the books to my memory are far from womanizing,
Random thought while I was watching this video trying to fall asleep 😂: I enjoy watching your videos because of how eloquent and clear you are when you speak. You convey your thoughts so well! 🌷
The first five books of Roger Zelazny's Amber series are all about siblings vying for one throne. And its wry first person POV gives it a bit of a noir tone. It is an older series, though (originally started in 1970), so there are a few eyebrow raising moments. But not too many from what I remember.
I agree with the people saying that the depictions of female characters in Dresden Files and Witcher are bad, the rest I have not read and probably won't read any time soon either. One additional note: Lev Grossman's new book The Bright Sword came out last month and it is a stand-alone as far as I am aware. I did like it quite a lot.
It would be interesting to to hear how you familiarized yourself with your own taste. I find I'm not reading a lot of books I enjoy and I'm wondering if part of the reason why is that I'm not sure what I really like and don't like. If you're looking for detective fantasy, try City of Stairs
It’s something that has happened pretty organically tbh. I also do a decent amount of research into a book before purchasing it, which has helped me cut down on books I might not have liked. I’ll have a bit more of a think on this though and message you when I have some more evolved thoughts. Thanks for the rec, City of Stairs is probably going to be the RJB book I read.
You're not missing much with most of these, and for the two I didn't like to see on here your reasons to avoid are valid, so it is what it is. Life's too short to get peer pressured into reading crap you're fairly sure isn't for you, and as you rightly said there's always more stuff to read anyway. I recently let that happen with myself and John Gwynne and talk about a trainwreck.
@@bookswithzara yea, FATF. I even made the effort to read the entire thing because I'd bought them all, lol. And would you believe people who know my reaction are still telling me try his latest series when by all accounts it's the same stuff different title? LOL.
I have read almost none of these books so I won't agree or disagree with your take on them. Your opinions are well thought out and I trust them. The possible exception I might make personally is that I quite enjoyed the first two Dresden Files books. As they say in the car ads, your mileage may vary.
Quite a few folks in the comments have said the female characters don’t really develop as the series goes on. Regardless, I’m glad you’re having fun with the series! I know a few people who really enjoy it.
Generally agree, I find! I also get vibes from reviews and summaries that can make my mind up not to read them, even though the stuff I’ve read is intending the opposite. I read a couple of the early Witchers and they just struck me as an old style adventure romp. I almost laughed when I saw that women could be released for magical training by a family because they were probably too unattractive to marry!! The second one I read did have a stronger female but still too many are only referred to as ‘comely’. I’ve not found it in me to get back to them. My one disagreement - read Senlin! Just such beautiful quote worthy prose. Maybe the ending in volume 4 is a bit weird and unusual, and I can see not to everyone’s taste, but the journey through the other volumes is excellent. But I suspect you won’t be persuaded…
Yeah, more people need to do this I think haha. What you described with Witcher sounds funny but I also think I’d find that so irritating to read 😂 Re Senlin, it’s a possibility I’ll pick it is unlikely. Maybe when I’ve forgotten about it, I’ll add it back to the tbr!
You are totally right! Our life on this earth is not limitless and we really need to know what we truly love and enjoy doing(this apply on everything in life, not just books!) Like you I also have zero interest for any of these books except Tide child trilogy.
For recommendations for a family fighting itself for the succession, I actually asked this question on the r/fantasy subreddit a few months ago, so I'll list some of the more recommended ones below. I haven't gotten around to reading them yet, so can't vouch for their quality, but if you're interested you can look into them. The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny The Burning Kingdoms by Tasha Siri The Accursed Kings The Radiant Emperor Duology by Shelly Parker Crown of Stars by Kate Elliott
There was a brief moment that I thought it would be a massive gaslight and you'd have First Law / Age of Madness on here because the books are just behind you. I lol'd myself, it's been that kind of day. It's a decent list of series, at least in terms of being well-known. Poppy War surprised me given your love of grimdark. I've read both Dresden and Codex Alera. I don't recall the POV characters as being anywhere close to the same as Harry Dresden. I enjoyed Alera, but like Dresden, I think the writing and storytelling is better the further you get into the books. I'd also call this coming of age where the character is growing up through the series, whereas Dresden is an adult, at least in age, at the beginning of the book.
I concur.😂 Keep this secret ok? 😉 😅 I'm re-considering A Song of Ice and Fire. I don't like on page "topics" that can be in darker fantasy, but Bookborn reading these has made me rethink a bit. I can always skip the paragraph/page where "it" happens. If it is in books, i prefer "closed door" then reading the implications of that assault/relationship from there. Bookborn said the show made the scenes worse than what was written. Im not in a hurry to read it but I'm definitely starting to get the itch.
😂😂 I agree with you. I think if it’s a specific plot point or the violence has a lead up, it’s easy to skip. I think a lot of my issues stem from when characters are written poorly: one dimensional, lean into cringe stereotypes etc etc. Or if the actual prose is just bad. If it’s a small feature, can be more forgiving.
From what I can tell, you are not missing out on much by avoiding these series, haha. Except for Tide Child... idk who told you that about the female characters but I seriously could not disagree more. Barker writes exceptional women in matriarchal worlds, and I think you will love that series!
Pretty much every series you listed here I've looked into and decided to pass on (including Lightbringer), with 2 exceptions: I read the the Licanius Trilogy and regretted it; I have The Bone Ships on my shelf and have been eager to get to it because I hadn't heard the negative things you mentioned (which now have me reconsidering it).
It’s oddly comforting that so many people, including you, have made the same decision haha. A few people have said The Bone Ships actually subverts some tropes so I may re-add this one to my list!
I love your honesty in this. I agree that over exposure to things can put you off them and there’s a lot of that on BookTube and BookTok(which I’m not on).
Thanks Maeve! Totally. I think booktok would probably amplify this even more, which is part of the reason why I’m not on it. This also contributed to me unfollowing most booktubers!
@@bookswithzara I unfollowed most of the BookTubers I used to watch that had over 10k subs because they all seemed to be talking about the same books at the same time. I now mostly stick to channels with less than 10k subs and only if they consistently bring up books I don’t hear talked about very often.
I read the first in the Chronicle of the Unhewn throne. It wasn't awful, but I felt no desire to continue. I've long been convinced Poppy War is not for me also. But still plan to give The Shadow of What was Lost a try though, because I know so many people who dearly love it. We'll see how it goes!
I would tell someone if they only read one Miles Cameron book read,; ' Killer Of Men '. The title is the Greek definition of the word, hero. Its a historical novel about a hoplite in the bronze age. I think it would be a great counter point with your recent reading of Musashi. I admit I'm high on Cameron right now, he just published the final volumne of his fantasy trilogy; 'The Bronze Age' and it is great fun, a war between the Gods and mortals. It may be the place to start with him, read the first few pages from the first book; 'Agianst All Gods' and see if your not intrigued.
I've heard that Brent Weeks isn't very good at writing female characters. I haven't read it, but I've seen some quotes from Night Angel that have some real r/menwritingwomen material. I also tried the first book of The Lightbringer series and was not impressed by the female characters in it. Also, while Codex Alera doesn't necessarily have the same issues as the Dresden Files in regard to female characters, I did DNF the first book because of the way two of the female leads were treated. That being said, I've never seen anyone say anything bad about the Tide Child Trilogy's representation of female main characters, so I'm kind of curious about that. I haven't read it myself though.
That’s really good to know. Thanks! I think I’m probably going to give Codex a go at some point but I’m in zero rush. A few folks here have given impassioned arguments that Tide Child isn’t what I was told. I’m likely going to give this a shot at some point.
Some of these series I've read so I'll give my take :3 Poppy War Trilogy - Rin, the MC, is always angry. Always. Completely one note. Zero emotion depth. Doesn't matter how good well things are going for her, she'll always find a reason to be mad lol. The only time she isn't mad is when she is in a war meeting with her crew planning a military operation to hurt the people who made her mad lmao XD Licanius Trilogy - third book in this series was hot garbage lmao XD the only thing that book 3 did well was the epilogue omg. If you are willing to put up with with the BS, the epilogue to the third book makes it all worth it, because very satisfying ending. Especially if you are a theory crafter. I came up with all sorts of theories before I got to the ending and I was very rewarded because I put all the clues and foreshadowing together (yay me lmao), but again, there is just soooooo much BS and dumb crap in the third book especially that it was miracle that I didn't DNF and honestly your milage my vary so you might not enjoy the epilogue as much as I did lol Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne - this entire series is basically the script of a high action low budge film lmfao XD Its entertaining while you are reading it, but it is ultimately a forgettable B movie. Witcher and Dresden - I will admit that I have not finished either of these series but from what I have read the sexism is overexaggerated. It is there, but from the little I read not nearly as egregious as folks make it out to be. I get the feeling that the people who complain loudest about the sexism in these series are just the people who are most sensitive to it. Like, in both series female characters have full agency and are their own characters. Like, even if Harry Dresden objectifies a female character in his mind the female character herself isn't being objectified by the author. The series if in Dresden's 1st person POV so it comes across as listening to some dude's perv thoughts but the narrative itself clearly shows that the same female characters that he is thinking about have agency regardless of how Dresden thinks about them. For some people listening to a guys horny thoughts is in and of itself a bridge too far I guess, but for me I'm not too bothered as long as it's clear that the female character still has agency. I only get bothered by it once it seems as if the female character has been written for the sole purpose of being gawked at lol Seriously, that's just criminally lazy if author can't do anything more with a female character than describe how much of an amazing collection of lady parts she is XD Keep in mind that I myself am male human soooooooo maybe I am being charitable here lol Again though I have not finished either series so I cannot say for sure if there aren't any truly ridiculous instances of sexism in either series lol Oh, since you mentioned Codex Alera, yes, I've read that whole series and can confirm that it doesn't suffer from any of the sexism stuff that Dresden does. It is in third person and multi-POV so I think that helps a little lol. It is another series, however, that I would classify as another script to a "high action low budge B film". Entertaining while you are reading it (and honestly it is definitely better than Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne by a country mile) but I never think about this series at all unless someone else mentions it and I'm reminded that the series exists and that I did in fact read it once lol.
Thanks so much for this! Yeah, I’m definitely NOT interested in listening to a guys horny thoughts. Your summary of Codex Alera a script for a low budget film had me laughing hahaha. Definitely in no rush to read it. Hope you’re good btw!
@@bookswithzara Yeah I'm doing fine I guess. It's just that being an American kinda sucks right now. If you aren't currently following American politics...well, all I gotta say is that you're missing out on the greatest clown show of in the history of mankind 🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@v3rmilli0nair3 nope I am. It is indeed a clown show (the UK is too btw but not as much as the US). Both of your main Presidential candidates are horrific options in different ways. I have friends in the US who feel extremely marginalised right now. I also used to think I’d eventually end up in the US but I can’t think of anything worse.
R.F Kuang is one of the most overrated authors in an era of overrated authors. About The Witcher, I'm slowly re-reading the series again. It just solidified my opinion that the first two books with short stories are the best of the lot and much more literary than the fantasy books we've had in the last twenty years. The saga itself about Ciri has some good moments, with Baptism of Fire being good, but it is not a good series in itself.
Got to agree with that. Thanks for reaffirming my initial thoughts about Witcher. I think I’m going to read the one Sapkowski is going to publish next. I believe it’s focussed on Geralt, which I’m here for.
I don't have any interest in Poppy War either. I'm still interested in Bone Ships but I've never looked that deeply into it so this is the first I've heard about the character work in general. Licanius is a never say never for me, but I've 0 plans to read it anytime soon. The Mistborn comparisons I've heard haven't helped. I'm actually reading Lightbringer right now, its okay but Weeks does this weird thing were he'll write "a view so beautiful, he nearly shat himself"... what? Never had any interest in The Magicians tbh. I love The Witcher books, but they're definitely flawed. Some of female characters are great tho. A lot of game fans become disappointed when they realise Ciri is ultimately the main character of the books, not Geralt. I do love The Dresden Files. The female characters do improve but yeah there were parts that are pretty cringeworthy. I lost interest in Unhewn Throne because of how disastrous Allen's readalong fell apart 😂 If I remember I was reading Aspect-Emperor instead, so I definitely made the right choice. I've heard almost exclusively terrible things about Traitor's Sun Cycle. From too many POVs, iffy worldbuilding etc. I've liked what I've read of Books of Babel and need to continue, but I don't think you'd like it. I tend not to look too much into series unless its a longer series because of time commitment.
Thanks for this, Rogue. You’ve pretty much re-affirmed my decision to not read most of the series I listed. Btw, I’m going to start Farseer soon. Either this month or next month.
Good to hear your forthright thoughts Zara but having just finished the Child Tide trilogy I have to disagree with the person who opined that the female characters were poorly written. In this series Barker overtly challenges gender and racial stereotypes in an engaging yet disturbing manner. The power structures portrayed allows an interesting exploration of both female and male roles in their (and this) society. The book as a whole is well written and I urge you not to dismiss it out of hand. Get the first book from your local library or buy it second hand cheaply. Make up your own mind. Bytheway, I do not know the author and am not a ‘fanboy’!
It doesn’t really matter if you were a fanboy tbh. If you like a book, you like it. A few people have said this in the comments so I will reconsider this one. I do have the ebooks. Thanks!
It could be worth reading some of those series you say you don't want to read because of poor female characters. Even if those characters are poor, it's still interesting to see the opposite sex writes them. I find that in some Romance books the female authors get men very wrong, but the stories are still good and their takes on what maleness is can be quite informative. You've got to read some of the Witcher at any rate! Seeing how they changed it for the game is interesting enough! And the boneships.
I’ve read plenty, and I really mean, plenty of fantasy, sci fi books (and other genres) with poorly written female characters. As I mentioned at the start, I’ve decided that’s not something I want to read anymore. As a general rule, I’ve found the male characters to be better fleshed out. Obviously, there are exceptions to that rule. Re Witcher, I might read the one the Sapkowski has recently finished that’s focussed on Geralt. That’ll probably be the only one.
look, I can see that people get the wrong impressions about female characters in the witcher from how they are first described. when we are in the male POVs, there is a lot of male gaze and sexualizing every woman they meet. BUT I would argue, sapkowski does not appreciate really how these men are thinking, and this is actually a reason why women are holding a lot of the power in this world secretly. so in the first 2 short story books, we only get geralts pov and reduced perception of women, but when we get triss' and yennefer's and specifically ciri's pov, I can't understand how people could call them one dimensional. they are some of the strongest female characters existing in fantasy to this day, imo. in fact, I would even call the witcher a feminist work, as in the end it really is about ciri and her struggle to free herself from outside forces, that try to bend her to their will. I might be biased, because the witcher is my favourite fantasy series (and I read a lot of fantasy), but also, there is a reason why it is.
Strange about the Bone Ships because I actually heard the opposite! I heard praise for its female characters though I haven’t read it yet. Tho if you like seafaring and good female characters, you gotta try Liveship trilogy (which is part of a bigger series but you could read it as its own thing if you want) As for Dresden…yeah. It was definitely entertaining back when I read it, and Jim Butcher is a great writer, but I really don’t like Dresden. He is so annoying. The moment this series changed from a detective story to a full blown superhero story, I kinda gave up. Plus the moment Dresden described a teenage girl’s body in vivid detail was cringe. Dresden fans scream and defend it by saying there is no romance between the underaged character and Dresden, and while that might be true, do I still need to read about an adult sexualizing a child’s body? Nope. People call me sensitive for criticizing this part. I guess it would be different if it was intentional and the main character was supposed to be amoral person, but he’s not. Dresden is a hero yet every woman including teenage girls are not safe from his sexualization like they’re part of his harem or something. Honestly it makes meangry I’m called sensitive for pointing this out 😂 Thing about most popular books is that sometimes the way people describe the story isn’t what you actually get. I sorta blame social media (TikTok) for this. Poppy War is sold as this gritty war story that explores trauma and cycle of war but I thought the author did a terrible job showcasing trauma and how it affects a person, because the protagonists change feels so rushed. There’s also this weird tone in it too, because even though it has got the violence, I felt that a lot of characters felt like edgy teenagers (including the adults). The writing was very mediocre. I think a good way to find out whether a book is well written is to search for good reads quotes. The most liked quote from this book on good reads is a saying that’s already been done, it’s just worded differently. Idk, I’ve read tons of sff and lit fic about war so what I got from poppy war was nowhere near that level. I used to buy every popular series out there but now that I figured out my tastes, and what I like, I have sense of what books to buy. And with me trying to save money that’s quite important to me rn
Yeah I’ve heard this from a few people now re Bone Ships. I will definitely reconsider this one. I do have the ebooks so not a complete no-no now. Thank you so much for your summary on Dresden. You have re-affirmed exactly why I have ZERO interest in reading that series. To the people calling you sensitive, sincerely piss off haha. This is generally why I try to stay away from popular series. And if I do read one, I do a decent amount of research to better understand if it has the types of things I like it in. I won’t always get it right, but it’s definitely been working for me quite well recently.
To everyone who commented about The Bone Ships trilogy, I hear you! I’ll reconsider this one. I do have the ebooks so maybe you’ll see a review of this series in the future.
Thanks for the great discussion around the topics in this video, it’s been great! Keep it coming.
I have such a problem with big books that you just hear tons about, so you end up knowing everything about it before even picking it up. It absolutely destroys any desire to actually read it.
Yeah, this is a major issue with popular books. It’s not always a good thing.
Between Yennifer and Ciri the witcher books honestly have some of the strongest female characters I can think of off hand.
That was what I initially assumed but I’ve had more people say otherwise
@@bookswithzara No idea what theyre really talking about tbh although i havent read them in close to a decade now. Brent weeks books can get weird with the women sometimes and i noticed that so i don't think its just that im blind to that sort of thing. The first two games especially game one can get juvenile with the way it handles relationships but the books to my memory are far from womanizing,
Random thought while I was watching this video trying to fall asleep 😂: I enjoy watching your videos because of how eloquent and clear you are when you speak. You convey your thoughts so well! 🌷
Codex Alera is amazing, especially in the audio iteration, enjoyed it so much. I DNF’d Dresden so hard; it’s like it’s by a different author.
That's really good to know! Thanks!
The first five books of Roger Zelazny's Amber series are all about siblings vying for one throne. And its wry first person POV gives it a bit of a noir tone. It is an older series, though (originally started in 1970), so there are a few eyebrow raising moments. But not too many from what I remember.
@@nicholaszacharewicz693 thank you! It’s on the list.
I agree with the people saying that the depictions of female characters in Dresden Files and Witcher are bad, the rest I have not read and probably won't read any time soon either. One additional note: Lev Grossman's new book The Bright Sword came out last month and it is a stand-alone as far as I am aware. I did like it quite a lot.
Thanks for reaffirming that! Good to know re The Bright Sword. Didn’t realise it was a standalone so will try to get to that sooner rather than later.
Awesome stuff, Zara! I appreciate you for always keeping it real 🤙🏽
🙏🏽
Phew! At 6:50 I was afraid you were going to say The Farseer trilogy by Robin Hobb.
@@samcostello2861 same!!! 😅
Fitz is the only Assassin I love because he’s the only fantasy assassin that’s not over the top 😂
Haha don’t worry, you can breathe easy! I’m going to start that series soon!
It would be interesting to to hear how you familiarized yourself with your own taste. I find I'm not reading a lot of books I enjoy and I'm wondering if part of the reason why is that I'm not sure what I really like and don't like. If you're looking for detective fantasy, try City of Stairs
It’s something that has happened pretty organically tbh. I also do a decent amount of research into a book before purchasing it, which has helped me cut down on books I might not have liked. I’ll have a bit more of a think on this though and message you when I have some more evolved thoughts.
Thanks for the rec, City of Stairs is probably going to be the RJB book I read.
You're not missing much with most of these, and for the two I didn't like to see on here your reasons to avoid are valid, so it is what it is. Life's too short to get peer pressured into reading crap you're fairly sure isn't for you, and as you rightly said there's always more stuff to read anyway. I recently let that happen with myself and John Gwynne and talk about a trainwreck.
I wish I hadn't wasted my time reading all 4 books of The Faithful and the Fallen!
Well said! Which series was that? FatF? Definitely an extremely overhyped series.
@@bookswithzara yea, FATF. I even made the effort to read the entire thing because I'd bought them all, lol. And would you believe people who know my reaction are still telling me try his latest series when by all accounts it's the same stuff different title? LOL.
I have read almost none of these books so I won't agree or disagree with your take on them. Your opinions are well thought out and I trust them. The possible exception I might make personally is that I quite enjoyed the first two Dresden Files books. As they say in the car ads, your mileage may vary.
Quite a few folks in the comments have said the female characters don’t really develop as the series goes on. Regardless, I’m glad you’re having fun with the series! I know a few people who really enjoy it.
Generally agree, I find! I also get vibes from reviews and summaries that can make my mind up not to read them, even though the stuff I’ve read is intending the opposite.
I read a couple of the early Witchers and they just struck me as an old style adventure romp. I almost laughed when I saw that women could be released for magical training by a family because they were probably too unattractive to marry!! The second one I read did have a stronger female but still too many are only referred to as ‘comely’. I’ve not found it in me to get back to them.
My one disagreement - read Senlin! Just such beautiful quote worthy prose. Maybe the ending in volume 4 is a bit weird and unusual, and I can see not to everyone’s taste, but the journey through the other volumes is excellent. But I suspect you won’t be persuaded…
Yeah, more people need to do this I think haha. What you described with Witcher sounds funny but I also think I’d find that so irritating to read 😂
Re Senlin, it’s a possibility I’ll pick it is unlikely. Maybe when I’ve forgotten about it, I’ll add it back to the tbr!
You are totally right! Our life on this earth is not limitless and we really need to know what we truly love and enjoy doing(this apply on everything in life, not just books!) Like you I also have zero interest for any of these books except Tide child trilogy.
Very well said!
For recommendations for a family fighting itself for the succession, I actually asked this question on the r/fantasy subreddit a few months ago, so I'll list some of the more recommended ones below. I haven't gotten around to reading them yet, so can't vouch for their quality, but if you're interested you can look into them.
The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny
The Burning Kingdoms by Tasha Siri
The Accursed Kings
The Radiant Emperor Duology by Shelly Parker
Crown of Stars by Kate Elliott
LEGEND! Thanks so much. Going to check out the ones I haven’t heard of before.
There was a brief moment that I thought it would be a massive gaslight and you'd have First Law / Age of Madness on here because the books are just behind you. I lol'd myself, it's been that kind of day. It's a decent list of series, at least in terms of being well-known. Poppy War surprised me given your love of grimdark. I've read both Dresden and Codex Alera. I don't recall the POV characters as being anywhere close to the same as Harry Dresden. I enjoyed Alera, but like Dresden, I think the writing and storytelling is better the further you get into the books. I'd also call this coming of age where the character is growing up through the series, whereas Dresden is an adult, at least in age, at the beginning of the book.
😂😂😂
Thanks for the further info on Dresden and Alera. I think I’ll probably give the latter a go, with the plan to persist for a few books.
I concur.😂
Keep this secret ok? 😉 😅 I'm re-considering A Song of Ice and Fire. I don't like on page "topics" that can be in darker fantasy, but Bookborn reading these has made me rethink a bit. I can always skip the paragraph/page where "it" happens. If it is in books, i prefer "closed door" then reading the implications of that assault/relationship from there. Bookborn said the show made the scenes worse than what was written. Im not in a hurry to read it but I'm definitely starting to get the itch.
😂😂
I agree with you. I think if it’s a specific plot point or the violence has a lead up, it’s easy to skip.
I think a lot of my issues stem from when characters are written poorly: one dimensional, lean into cringe stereotypes etc etc. Or if the actual prose is just bad. If it’s a small feature, can be more forgiving.
Similar feelings that I am curious about some but there are just a lot more I am more interested in now.
Fair!
From what I can tell, you are not missing out on much by avoiding these series, haha. Except for Tide Child... idk who told you that about the female characters but I seriously could not disagree more. Barker writes exceptional women in matriarchal worlds, and I think you will love that series!
@@esmayrosalyne yep, I posted a pinned comment to say I’ll reconsider that one! It’s back on the tbr.
@@bookswithzara Totally looked over that pinned comment, glad it's back on the TBR!
Pretty much every series you listed here I've looked into and decided to pass on (including Lightbringer), with 2 exceptions: I read the the Licanius Trilogy and regretted it; I have The Bone Ships on my shelf and have been eager to get to it because I hadn't heard the negative things you mentioned (which now have me reconsidering it).
It’s oddly comforting that so many people, including you, have made the same decision haha. A few people have said The Bone Ships actually subverts some tropes so I may re-add this one to my list!
I love your honesty in this. I agree that over exposure to things can put you off them and there’s a lot of that on BookTube and BookTok(which I’m not on).
Thanks Maeve! Totally. I think booktok would probably amplify this even more, which is part of the reason why I’m not on it. This also contributed to me unfollowing most booktubers!
@@bookswithzara I unfollowed most of the BookTubers I used to watch that had over 10k subs because they all seemed to be talking about the same books at the same time. I now mostly stick to channels with less than 10k subs and only if they consistently bring up books I don’t hear talked about very often.
I read the first in the Chronicle of the Unhewn throne. It wasn't awful, but I felt no desire to continue. I've long been convinced Poppy War is not for me also. But still plan to give The Shadow of What was Lost a try though, because I know so many people who dearly love it. We'll see how it goes!
Ah good to know! Let me know how you get on with The Shadow of What was Lost!
I would tell someone if they only read one Miles Cameron book read,; ' Killer Of Men '. The title is the Greek definition of the word, hero. Its a historical novel about a hoplite in the bronze age. I think it would be a great counter point with your recent reading of Musashi. I admit I'm high on Cameron right now, he just published the final volumne of his fantasy trilogy; 'The Bronze Age' and it is great fun, a war between the Gods and mortals. It may be the place to start with him, read the first few pages from the first book; 'Agianst All Gods' and see if your not intrigued.
You got it, Leo! I’ll add it to my list. I have the first two Bronze Age novels. I was going to start there as those books sound amazing.
I've heard that Brent Weeks isn't very good at writing female characters. I haven't read it, but I've seen some quotes from Night Angel that have some real r/menwritingwomen material. I also tried the first book of The Lightbringer series and was not impressed by the female characters in it. Also, while Codex Alera doesn't necessarily have the same issues as the Dresden Files in regard to female characters, I did DNF the first book because of the way two of the female leads were treated. That being said, I've never seen anyone say anything bad about the Tide Child Trilogy's representation of female main characters, so I'm kind of curious about that. I haven't read it myself though.
That’s really good to know. Thanks! I think I’m probably going to give Codex a go at some point but I’m in zero rush.
A few folks here have given impassioned arguments that Tide Child isn’t what I was told. I’m likely going to give this a shot at some point.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend The Poppy War. It ends badly, it has cringey new adult elements, and the moralizing is over the top to the extreme.
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Some of these series I've read so I'll give my take :3
Poppy War Trilogy - Rin, the MC, is always angry. Always. Completely one note. Zero emotion depth. Doesn't matter how good well things are going for her, she'll always find a reason to be mad lol. The only time she isn't mad is when she is in a war meeting with her crew planning a military operation to hurt the people who made her mad lmao XD
Licanius Trilogy - third book in this series was hot garbage lmao XD the only thing that book 3 did well was the epilogue omg. If you are willing to put up with with the BS, the epilogue to the third book makes it all worth it, because very satisfying ending. Especially if you are a theory crafter. I came up with all sorts of theories before I got to the ending and I was very rewarded because I put all the clues and foreshadowing together (yay me lmao), but again, there is just soooooo much BS and dumb crap in the third book especially that it was miracle that I didn't DNF and honestly your milage my vary so you might not enjoy the epilogue as much as I did lol
Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne - this entire series is basically the script of a high action low budge film lmfao XD Its entertaining while you are reading it, but it is ultimately a forgettable B movie.
Witcher and Dresden - I will admit that I have not finished either of these series but from what I have read the sexism is overexaggerated. It is there, but from the little I read not nearly as egregious as folks make it out to be. I get the feeling that the people who complain loudest about the sexism in these series are just the people who are most sensitive to it. Like, in both series female characters have full agency and are their own characters. Like, even if Harry Dresden objectifies a female character in his mind the female character herself isn't being objectified by the author. The series if in Dresden's 1st person POV so it comes across as listening to some dude's perv thoughts but the narrative itself clearly shows that the same female characters that he is thinking about have agency regardless of how Dresden thinks about them. For some people listening to a guys horny thoughts is in and of itself a bridge too far I guess, but for me I'm not too bothered as long as it's clear that the female character still has agency. I only get bothered by it once it seems as if the female character has been written for the sole purpose of being gawked at lol Seriously, that's just criminally lazy if author can't do anything more with a female character than describe how much of an amazing collection of lady parts she is XD Keep in mind that I myself am male human soooooooo maybe I am being charitable here lol Again though I have not finished either series so I cannot say for sure if there aren't any truly ridiculous instances of sexism in either series lol
Oh, since you mentioned Codex Alera, yes, I've read that whole series and can confirm that it doesn't suffer from any of the sexism stuff that Dresden does. It is in third person and multi-POV so I think that helps a little lol. It is another series, however, that I would classify as another script to a "high action low budge B film". Entertaining while you are reading it (and honestly it is definitely better than Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne by a country mile) but I never think about this series at all unless someone else mentions it and I'm reminded that the series exists and that I did in fact read it once lol.
Thanks so much for this! Yeah, I’m definitely NOT interested in listening to a guys horny thoughts. Your summary of Codex Alera a script for a low budget film had me laughing hahaha. Definitely in no rush to read it.
Hope you’re good btw!
@@bookswithzara Yeah I'm doing fine I guess. It's just that being an American kinda sucks right now. If you aren't currently following American politics...well, all I gotta say is that you're missing out on the greatest clown show of in the history of mankind 🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@v3rmilli0nair3 nope I am. It is indeed a clown show (the UK is too btw but not as much as the US). Both of your main Presidential candidates are horrific options in different ways. I have friends in the US who feel extremely marginalised right now. I also used to think I’d eventually end up in the US but I can’t think of anything worse.
R.F Kuang is one of the most overrated authors in an era of overrated authors.
About The Witcher, I'm slowly re-reading the series again. It just solidified my opinion that the first two books with short stories are the best of the lot and much more literary than the fantasy books we've had in the last twenty years.
The saga itself about Ciri has some good moments, with Baptism of Fire being good, but it is not a good series in itself.
Got to agree with that.
Thanks for reaffirming my initial thoughts about Witcher. I think I’m going to read the one Sapkowski is going to publish next. I believe it’s focussed on Geralt, which I’m here for.
I don't have any interest in Poppy War either. I'm still interested in Bone Ships but I've never looked that deeply into it so this is the first I've heard about the character work in general.
Licanius is a never say never for me, but I've 0 plans to read it anytime soon. The Mistborn comparisons I've heard haven't helped.
I'm actually reading Lightbringer right now, its okay but Weeks does this weird thing were he'll write "a view so beautiful, he nearly shat himself"... what?
Never had any interest in The Magicians tbh.
I love The Witcher books, but they're definitely flawed. Some of female characters are great tho. A lot of game fans become disappointed when they realise Ciri is ultimately the main character of the books, not Geralt.
I do love The Dresden Files. The female characters do improve but yeah there were parts that are pretty cringeworthy.
I lost interest in Unhewn Throne because of how disastrous Allen's readalong fell apart 😂 If I remember I was reading Aspect-Emperor instead, so I definitely made the right choice.
I've heard almost exclusively terrible things about Traitor's Sun Cycle. From too many POVs, iffy worldbuilding etc.
I've liked what I've read of Books of Babel and need to continue, but I don't think you'd like it. I tend not to look too much into series unless its a longer series because of time commitment.
Thanks for this, Rogue. You’ve pretty much re-affirmed my decision to not read most of the series I listed.
Btw, I’m going to start Farseer soon. Either this month or next month.
@@bookswithzara Nice, hopefully I haven't overhyped it for you! I hope to return to Realm of the Elderlings after my re-read of Deadhouse Gates.
Good to hear your forthright thoughts Zara but having just finished the Child Tide trilogy I have to disagree with the person who opined that the female characters were poorly written. In this series Barker overtly challenges gender and racial stereotypes in an engaging yet disturbing manner. The power structures portrayed allows an interesting exploration of both female and male roles in their (and this) society. The book as a whole is well written and I urge you not to dismiss it out of hand. Get the first book from your local library or buy it second hand cheaply. Make up your own mind. Bytheway, I do not know the author and am not a ‘fanboy’!
It doesn’t really matter if you were a fanboy tbh. If you like a book, you like it. A few people have said this in the comments so I will reconsider this one. I do have the ebooks. Thanks!
It could be worth reading some of those series you say you don't want to read because of poor female characters.
Even if those characters are poor, it's still interesting to see the opposite sex writes them. I find that in some Romance books the female authors get men very wrong, but the stories are still good and their takes on what maleness is can be quite informative.
You've got to read some of the Witcher at any rate! Seeing how they changed it for the game is interesting enough! And the boneships.
I’ve read plenty, and I really mean, plenty of fantasy, sci fi books (and other genres) with poorly written female characters. As I mentioned at the start, I’ve decided that’s not something I want to read anymore.
As a general rule, I’ve found the male characters to be better fleshed out. Obviously, there are exceptions to that rule.
Re Witcher, I might read the one the Sapkowski has recently finished that’s focussed on Geralt. That’ll probably be the only one.
look, I can see that people get the wrong impressions about female characters in the witcher from how they are first described. when we are in the male POVs, there is a lot of male gaze and sexualizing every woman they meet. BUT I would argue, sapkowski does not appreciate really how these men are thinking, and this is actually a reason why women are holding a lot of the power in this world secretly. so in the first 2 short story books, we only get geralts pov and reduced perception of women, but when we get triss' and yennefer's and specifically ciri's pov, I can't understand how people could call them one dimensional. they are some of the strongest female characters existing in fantasy to this day, imo. in fact, I would even call the witcher a feminist work, as in the end it really is about ciri and her struggle to free herself from outside forces, that try to bend her to their will. I might be biased, because the witcher is my favourite fantasy series (and I read a lot of fantasy), but also, there is a reason why it is.
* and with 'strongest female characters' I don't mean like girlboss surface level strong, but leaving a strong impression as a unique character
Strange about the Bone Ships because I actually heard the opposite! I heard praise for its female characters though I haven’t read it yet. Tho if you like seafaring and good female characters, you gotta try Liveship trilogy (which is part of a bigger series but you could read it as its own thing if you want)
As for Dresden…yeah. It was definitely entertaining back when I read it, and Jim Butcher is a great writer, but I really don’t like Dresden. He is so annoying. The moment this series changed from a detective story to a full blown superhero story, I kinda gave up. Plus the moment Dresden described a teenage girl’s body in vivid detail was cringe. Dresden fans scream and defend it by saying there is no romance between the underaged character and Dresden, and while that might be true, do I still need to read about an adult sexualizing a child’s body? Nope. People call me sensitive for criticizing this part. I guess it would be different if it was intentional and the main character was supposed to be amoral person, but he’s not. Dresden is a hero yet every woman including teenage girls are not safe from his sexualization like they’re part of his harem or something. Honestly it makes meangry I’m called sensitive for pointing this out 😂
Thing about most popular books is that sometimes the way people describe the story isn’t what you actually get. I sorta blame social media (TikTok) for this. Poppy War is sold as this gritty war story that explores trauma and cycle of war but I thought the author did a terrible job showcasing trauma and how it affects a person, because the protagonists change feels so rushed. There’s also this weird tone in it too, because even though it has got the violence, I felt that a lot of characters felt like edgy teenagers (including the adults). The writing was very mediocre. I think a good way to find out whether a book is well written is to search for good reads quotes. The most liked quote from this book on good reads is a saying that’s already been done, it’s just worded differently. Idk, I’ve read tons of sff and lit fic about war so what I got from poppy war was nowhere near that level.
I used to buy every popular series out there but now that I figured out my tastes, and what I like, I have sense of what books to buy. And with me trying to save money that’s quite important to me rn
Yeah I’ve heard this from a few people now re Bone Ships. I will definitely reconsider this one. I do have the ebooks so not a complete no-no now.
Thank you so much for your summary on Dresden. You have re-affirmed exactly why I have ZERO interest in reading that series. To the people calling you sensitive, sincerely piss off haha.
This is generally why I try to stay away from popular series. And if I do read one, I do a decent amount of research to better understand if it has the types of things I like it in. I won’t always get it right, but it’s definitely been working for me quite well recently.