Here's a story idea: Play a caitiff in the camarilla, but don't go crazy with the customization play a normal vampire clan but with slight yet noticeable differences. Like play a brujah but they have fortitude instead of presence and they aren't all that rebellious. Be the key to a mystery plot. You're sire preformed diablerie before siring you and you got some of the traits of the other vampire. Now you must solve a mystery where you yourself are the primary piece of evidence.
So me again adding my 2 cents: 1) Caitiff being a social status - kind of. Yes that was one way it was used in the dark ages. BUT caitiff as in those who dont have a clan appeared ever since the second city. Technicly any vampire can create a caitiff, even caine himself spawned one of the clanless (stoneman) BUT the higher your generation, the more LIKELY you are to create a clanless offspring, which is why we see more and more of them as time progresses. So caitiff exist from 2nd generation up to 14th generation - after that the result is always a thinblood. The sabbat even altered their creation rituals for shovelheads as mixing blood of different sires to embrace seemed to up the chances of clanless spawning. 2) Thin bloods can reproduce up to 16th generation which is sterile. Its just that they have a 50 - 75% failure chance on embracing 3) There is a ritual that can make any vampire into a caitiff - "one of my tribe" that Joseph Pander came up with (or was taught by the stoneman who may have learned it from caine) 4) why would it be wrong to call them panders? The caitiff do have a third generation vampire and while he aint an antedeluvian, neither is Tremere. And not all Tremere are descendants of Tremere just like with Joseph Pander. And the clanless to share a few traits, one of them being unpredictable, another being outcast or looked down at, one of them being not having the roots vampires usually have, they are also immune to the Beckoning, and while they are certainly quite diverse, its not like they wouldnt share some traits. I may remind you that clan variants and bloodlines are a thing, which often vary widlly from their parent clan. 5) could there be another sabbath civil war to revoke caitiff status? Potentially yes but i doubt it. The caitif gain numbers as time goes on, they are usually quite powerfull, and one of the strongest allies of the sabbath is a second generation caitiff. So far there were no wars in the sabbath to undo what previous wars accomplished and the sabbath is split on very different issues - there is 3 of 5 MAJOR factions in the sabbathg that dont care about the code of Milan, so i guess that would be a much more likely issue of civil war. Or against some path of enlightenment that is....counterproductive to the sabbat as a whole 6) Actually there is limits to caitiff. They can NOT just learn disciplines that are knowledge based - like thaumaturgy, like abyss mysticism or any blood sorcery variant. ANY vampire CAN learn these given they have access to the knowledge. Caitiff may learn blood sorcery the same way ANY vampire can - rigious study. Also exotic clan disciplines that require a supernatural link to something are also off limits - like obtenebration unless the Caitiff is abyss marked, like daimonion, unless the caitiff had its dealings with the infernal etc. Similiar bloodline disciplines are also off limits like mytherica as that required a fae magic potion to develop. Also disciplines that are tied to a clan curse are off limits as well like the blood brothers one or that require physical aids like gargoyles flight or is tied to an outside force like Tzimisce vicissitude. That said Caitiff CAN do one thing that was not heard of since the third generation - they can CREATE entirely new disciplines out of themselves. As in disciplines that no one else has or ever heard of.
@@phantimon6175 i would have advised to not play your very first vtm character as Pander, given that both the sabbat and the caitiff stray a LOT from normal gameplay and you may not be aware of the context the sabbat exists in or how unique caitiff actually are and how powerfull they can become if you havent played something else first. That said i wish you a lot of fun cause thats what games are about^^
It's funny how other vampires hate being reminded that the first 2 generations of vampires were technically Caitiffs. I wonder if it's because they realize hat technically, if Caine is real, nothing would have prevented him to continue embracing childer after cursing the Antediluvians. There could be 2nd and 3rd generation Caitiffs running around.
How does one become a Caitiff and discern themselves from thin-bloods? Or rather, how would one of say... Ventrue blood know the difference between a thin-blood and a Caitiff?
Here's a story idea: Play a caitiff in the camarilla, but don't go crazy with the customization play a normal vampire clan but with slight yet noticeable differences. Like play a brujah but they have fortitude instead of presence and they aren't all that rebellious. Be the key to a mystery plot. You're sire preformed diablerie before siring you and you got some of the traits of the other vampire. Now you must solve a mystery where you yourself are the primary piece of evidence.
I listen to lore videos like this as a sort of ASMR. I have to watch them multiple times because I get sleepy part way through.
I’m exactly the same way…. It’s comforting to sleep to..
So me again adding my 2 cents:
1) Caitiff being a social status - kind of. Yes that was one way it was used in the dark ages. BUT caitiff as in those who dont have a clan appeared ever since the second city. Technicly any vampire can create a caitiff, even caine himself spawned one of the clanless (stoneman) BUT the higher your generation, the more LIKELY you are to create a clanless offspring, which is why we see more and more of them as time progresses. So caitiff exist from 2nd generation up to 14th generation - after that the result is always a thinblood.
The sabbat even altered their creation rituals for shovelheads as mixing blood of different sires to embrace seemed to up the chances of clanless spawning.
2) Thin bloods can reproduce up to 16th generation which is sterile. Its just that they have a 50 - 75% failure chance on embracing
3) There is a ritual that can make any vampire into a caitiff - "one of my tribe" that Joseph Pander came up with (or was taught by the stoneman who may have learned it from caine)
4) why would it be wrong to call them panders? The caitiff do have a third generation vampire and while he aint an antedeluvian, neither is Tremere. And not all Tremere are descendants of Tremere just like with Joseph Pander. And the clanless to share a few traits, one of them being unpredictable, another being outcast or looked down at, one of them being not having the roots vampires usually have, they are also immune to the Beckoning, and while they are certainly quite diverse, its not like they wouldnt share some traits. I may remind you that clan variants and bloodlines are a thing, which often vary widlly from their parent clan.
5) could there be another sabbath civil war to revoke caitiff status? Potentially yes but i doubt it. The caitif gain numbers as time goes on, they are usually quite powerfull, and one of the strongest allies of the sabbath is a second generation caitiff. So far there were no wars in the sabbath to undo what previous wars accomplished and the sabbath is split on very different issues - there is 3 of 5 MAJOR factions in the sabbathg that dont care about the code of Milan, so i guess that would be a much more likely issue of civil war. Or against some path of enlightenment that is....counterproductive to the sabbat as a whole
6) Actually there is limits to caitiff. They can NOT just learn disciplines that are knowledge based - like thaumaturgy, like abyss mysticism or any blood sorcery variant. ANY vampire CAN learn these given they have access to the knowledge. Caitiff may learn blood sorcery the same way ANY vampire can - rigious study.
Also exotic clan disciplines that require a supernatural link to something are also off limits - like obtenebration unless the Caitiff is abyss marked, like daimonion, unless the caitiff had its dealings with the infernal etc. Similiar bloodline disciplines are also off limits like mytherica as that required a fae magic potion to develop.
Also disciplines that are tied to a clan curse are off limits as well like the blood brothers one or that require physical aids like gargoyles flight or is tied to an outside force like Tzimisce vicissitude.
That said Caitiff CAN do one thing that was not heard of since the third generation - they can CREATE entirely new disciplines out of themselves. As in disciplines that no one else has or ever heard of.
Your explanatory videos are my favorite of the type. Thank you.
I'm playing a Sabbat caitiff, this is my first time playing vampire the masquerade, and so far I'm having a lot of fun
The chronicle takes place in the 1880s so maybe he'll be one of the first pandas
@@phantimon6175 i would have advised to not play your very first vtm character as Pander, given that both the sabbat and the caitiff stray a LOT from normal gameplay and you may not be aware of the context the sabbat exists in or how unique caitiff actually are and how powerfull they can become if you havent played something else first.
That said i wish you a lot of fun cause thats what games are about^^
@@OrkarIsberEstar the game ended a while ago, it was really fun, I became the pack priest and accidentally summoned a demon
It's funny how other vampires hate being reminded that the first 2 generations of vampires were technically Caitiffs. I wonder if it's because they realize hat technically, if Caine is real, nothing would have prevented him to continue embracing childer after cursing the Antediluvians. There could be 2nd and 3rd generation Caitiffs running around.
You shut that filthy caitiff lovin mouth! Caine was the chosen of God!
Yeehaw! The Hand shall rise again!
I always do enjoy listening to your Tales of the Night!
Great video mate. Happy New Year from Australia!
Thank you for this video! Will you do one for the Garou next time?
Theres a few more to do before them but I think I will at somepoint soon
@@theashspawn Ah, Well Good Luck to you, Kindred.
are you considering covering the various Bloodlines as well? Specifacally the weirdlings known as the Kiasyd and Maeghar?
Eventually I will get to the bloodlines I think are distinct enough for a video of their own. The Kiasyd will be one of them
@@theashspawn so happy about that, keep up the great work!
8:58 ah yeah, me too
I adore your work
More VTM please!!!
How does one become a Caitiff and discern themselves from thin-bloods? Or rather, how would one of say... Ventrue blood know the difference between a thin-blood and a Caitiff?
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What character are you roleplaying as?
An OC; A ventrue elder by the name of Æthelwin
@@theashspawn I'm a VtM lore novice. What does oc stand for?
@@kylebooker1987 OC as in; original character. Meaning a character I created
@@theashspawn That something you can do in VtM?
@@kylebooker1987 yes!!! Like most pen and paper role playing games that's one of the main aspects of the game