I don't think they ever implied that she was manipulated by him. She was a willing participlant and even instigator. In determining whether someone was "born to kill" they are simply suggesting that if she had not met Ian Brady and instead married a normal man and had a family, she had every chance of going on to live a normal life. This is the principle of folie a deux - one brings out the worst in the other.
Folie-à-deux doesn't mean that one person makes the other worse. Folie-à-deux is a type of delusional disorder mostly associated with a shared paranoia such as the FBI or aliens are after them. In killing pairs, there's usually a dominant and a submissive partner. It's possible that during their killing partnership, the dynamics changed between Fred and Rose. It may have been when Rose made her first individual kill but we can only speculate when this happened.
I’d like to think she’s with him now 🕊️ …. If not, she is no longer in the agony she suffered in life after her son disappeared. These killers do not care about ALL the lives they destroy, the utter despair they cause so many.
I can’t believe there’s a god who would let this happen to anyone. If there is, he had better beg forgiveness for this. RIP Winnie and Keith, and all the victims ❤
God isn't letting this happen, he gave us the freedom to run things ourselves providing we obey him, with HIS set rules (Ten Commandments) Look how much of it we are not following! Judgement Day will come, or has already in the form of well deserved wrath! Only He knows!
"Your grandad is here" (in excitement) "He's home? Where is he?" "In the kitchen" Boy finds his grandad lying dead in a box. How cruel and twisted is the way Nilsen's parents told him his grandfather had died?
i was 32 yrs old in 1993 i cant believe i am 62 now and remember when this was all happening because i live near hither green south london ,i used to buy newspapers and would think how horrible this all was , these men look so normal thats the scary bit and yeah 32 yrs gone in the blink of an eye omg so much has changed x
The real interview with Dennis Nielsen is so cold and casual, I have heard it. Also the drama ‘Des’ is chillingly realistic, David Tennant did a great acting performance. Jeffrey Dahmer and Dennis did the same things at the same time, not knowing anything about the other, opposite ends of the world. Both lonely gay men, both alcoholics, both don’t want the men to leave, so many things in common
R.I.P. Winnie Johnson (Kieth Bennett's Mother), our hearts break hearing her interviews & those told of her by others. Winnie never gave up searching, and never found peace 💞
That part at 2:10:38, where that guy Martyn who was friends with Denis Neilson starts to break down, that just breaks my heart. That poor man, realizing that his friend was a serial killer, and I'm willing to bet that guy Martyn was probably a really good friend to Neilson. Damn, that just rips my guts out.
At one stage one of the forensic Psychologists says 'he seemed to have a knack of recognising vulnerable people'. Of course he did. He worked at the Job Centre & had been in the armed forces. He was trained to recognise them. At another stage David Wilson says Neilson said 'I didn't know I had the strength in me to strangle someone wit h a ligature.' Rubbish, all soldiers are taught this technique in basic training. It is a vital part of unarmed combat training.
he meant that mentally, not physically. anybody has the strength to strangle someone, but most people MENTALLY couldn’t do it. It’s a very personal and hands on way to kill someone as you are face to face and extremely close.
@@XxPeytonTurnerXx But he knew he had the mental strength to do this. His basic training would have unveiled this fact to him. When taught the use of a garrote he would have known whether he could do it come the time. Yes, certainly there can be some hesitation when the opportunity presents. But in the end he did exactly as trained. I am not sure he is being genuine about thinking he wasn't sure he could actually do it. Either physically or mentally. I think that once a course of action was decided in his mind he was committed. Nothing could stop him. In the case of the boy who survived the moment had passed. By living he had ruined it for Nielson.
The Shipman case was a huge turning point and saw the introduction of new laws and regulations such as minimum care standards and safeguarding procedures. I started out my career back in the late 90s' when there were next to no minimum standard, no proper inspections or procedures of any kind to flag up with the authorities. Nobody gave two shits what some bit of a kid thought or was concerned with over the word of a highly qualified doctor and there were few people fighting the corner for older people. It seems bizarre now to think he was allowed to return to practice after his conviction for forgery / drug abuse charges which gives some idea of how lax things were 😔
Exactly! Feet would not touch the floor now for anyone with a GMC/NMC registration who was caught on the thieve with any meds, let alone something as heavy duty as Pethidine!
But not much changed the fact Lucy letby was able to kill so many innocent children. There's a huge issue within the NHS and that's lack of communication and accountability. It's horrifying and heartbreaking 💔
@@Vortigan07 pethedine was what I was given when pregnant to take the pain away so I could sit up and have my meals. I suppose anything is dangerous in high quantities. I’m on controlled drugs permanently now. I could do ten years in prison for supply if I even give one dose of my medication away.
1. Yep, Ireland was definitely suffering from internalised homophobia & most likely disgusted about having sexual gay feelings or knowing he was gay. 2. The Wests were definitely one of the scariest couples that the world had seen. I remember when the story broke out, it was crazy. Rose was apparently the more dominanting one & killed her first victim at just age 17. That's all you need to know about her & Fred was a spineless sicko. That ITV drama (appropriate adult) took you into his mind very well & showed you how cold he truly was. 3. For Dennis there are no words, what a sickening & inhumane individual. 4. Shipman again no words, a greedy, manipulative POS who got away for far too long & all those poor elderly people & their families. 5. Don't talk to me about Hindley & Brady, they don't deserve any attention. Despicable pair
Dennis Nilson sounds like Jeffrey Dahlmer. Dahlmer was so afraid to be left alone that he'd do things like pour acid into his victim's heads to try and make them zombies. Then he'd sit and watch t.v. with the corpses, just like Nilson. It's horrific, but kinda sad that a thing like fear of abandonment would turn someone to do such horrible things.
Just the way Dahmer was is the exact reason guys didn't want to be around him, he was the reason he was alone all the time, just his weirdness, He could've probably had a regular gay relationship with someone, and if it wasn't for his creepy nature they could've lived together, but on the other hand, I don't think Dahmer could've been in an openly gay relationship because he was so ashamed of being homosexual, and I'm sure he didn't want his father Lionel knowing about anything like that.
Nah. It was the psychopathy that made them capable of doing it, as in brain abnormality. They were both weird already as children. The daddy issues just made their capacity to cope worse.
@@samhartford8677 You nailed it, damn good analogy, because after watching a documentary on Dahmer, he was weird as a kid, I wish I knew what makes people like this? did they not get a certain part of their brain when they were in the womb, or is it just a fact of life that some people are going to be born with the ability to do things like this, I guess I don't get it, I wish there was a definitive correct answer for why? I don't think anyone knows for certain, thank god there are more good people than bad, I mean most people would be like WTF, how could anyone do that ?
I lived in North London for four years - about a mile away from Nilsen’s flat in Muswell Hill. Gotta say, he’s a monster and all. But I’m kind of impressed he could find a flat big enough in Zone Two to hide 4 bodies on civil servants’ wage. The property market really has gone down the drain!!
I met Colin Ireland while volunteering at a homeless day centre. This was before Ireland himself volunteered at the night shelter. Ireland was one of four people I happened to meet who went on to commit murder.
@@DonnaFallon-si2nc I didn't have much interaction with him, just served him a few cups of tea. He was a tall powerfully built man and always dressed in combat fatigues, I could imagine he would easily overpower his victims. He would join us in the staff room and tell tales of his survivalist exploits. He learned from us about the night shelter, where he did his voluntary work. It was a terrible shock when we found out he was the "Gay Slayer".
It's also pretty sickening how the documentary does it's best to put most of the blame on Fred West, and don't really put much emphasis on Rose's roles in the crimes.
@@Harley_Girl68 yeah, I think that fred probably wouldn't have been motivated to kill as many women as he did without Rose (maybe 3), and I don't think rose would have gotten away with it if fred didn't help so it was a toxic combination
This has to be the most horrendous crimes in 20 years in the UK Its the sheer audacity. So cruel and evil it would raise an eye brow of all other psychopaths.
All rape victims are treated like they are the ones did something wrong. Until this attitude changes, nothing will ever change. That should be a criminal offense against the so-called justice system.
i just wish everyone actually reported these horrific incidents. i reckon there are more false reports than actual ones. the actions of many women who lie have made it harder to believe everyone
@mowvu5380 It may be harder to believe, but it should not be taken out on the victims. The REAL victims. The children, men, and women who are brutally violated should not have to feel like the criminal. The liars can be flushed out and down the drain. Honestly, there is no excuse for lying about such things as this.
@@barbaralamson7450 i sound harsh, don't want to victim blame. but nobody will get caught if it's not reported. the courts often protect abusers anyway so it's shitty either way
Fred west had a very normal childhood, poor yes but a happy childhood living in post war Britain in the countryside. My father was his best friend, and says Fred’s parents were also lovely. My father left the village for an apprenticeship at 16 years old. Fred had 2 head injuries after that, 1 on a motorbike accident and 1 by falling down some metal stairs. My father only saw him a couple of times after that when visiting my grandparents who still lived in the village. Dad says that Fred was never the same again, very distant and moody. Dad never bumped into him again. But Fred west definitely was not born to kill. Hope this was helpful
Fred's parents, like all abusive parents, usually come across as nice normal kindly people to everyone outside of the house. Your father only knew them when he himself was a child and would have seen the side of them that they presented to outsiders.
The amount of times I've seen people comment that so n so had a lovely childhood and the parents were wonderful people is ridiculous, it's such a naive comment just because these parents were outwardly nice doesn't mean Jack parents can be completely different towards their children behind closed doors than they are to other people they know, I know because almost everyone that ever met my mother said she was such a nice lady and im an ungrateful child yet she used to sadistically torture myself and my older siblings physically and psychologically she excelled in torture and she always loved playing the victim ...
You can't say your opinion as a definitely type of answer, very naive or narcissistic comment seeing one side of a person and thinking you know it all even worse when based on someone else's views especially when it goes against actual verified fact
We are back to nature versus nurture. My opinion is some individuals have no empathy or emotional comprehension. Most of us to do these crimes is something unbelievable beyond our way of thinking . It’s also in some cases helped by a combination of a bad experience of childhood. Like a perfect storm,but not in all cases.
I have personal experience with nature vs nurture and believe in nature. Scientist have a saying that nature is the gun and nurture is what pulls the trigger
@janethollman7894, Ya, I really think that we as a society will be seeing less and less of these types of killers because of all this technology we have now, with DNA, and these genealogy sites, I mean this kind of testing would scare most any criminal, knowing that they can be found out a lot easier now, genealogy caught the Golden State Killer, after like 40 years, and also the nor cal rapist, Roy Waller. so very cold cases are now being solved, but sadly I believe we will see more of these random spree killings, where a gunman barges in somewhere and opens fire with an AR, and this kind of thing scares me more than any serial killer, these random ones, i mean you don't even know if you can go shopping anymore without getting killed. scary world, lots of unhappy people out there
I agree. I think it’s mostly nature, people are born with the instinct and desire to harm and kill others. There are serial killers who’ve not suffered abuse. I.e. Dahmer, Col. Russ Williams, BTK, Myra Hyndley, Ken and Barbie killers, Bundy, Cottingham, Randy Kraft and others. It is true that most have suffered some and even severe abuse. But to say it’s all about upbringing, you have to ask what is it about the huge majority of people who grow up in abusive families that do NOT turn out to be killers? Serial killers are born genetically predisposed toward violence. Add in childhood abuse and there is little hope these prone to or born to be violent individuals will not hurt/kill others. Nature, genetic predisposition has to be present though … without it, serial killers wouldn’t do what they do, no matter their upbringing.
@@teresas8173 Although child abuse would be a strong factor for someone growing up to be a killer, it's not always the case, because like you said, some people go through hell as children and they come out of it to lead productive normal lives, but like a lot of the people you mentioned, they grew up in loving family's, I'm not sure about being born to kill, but it's highly possible, I've always wondered if it doesn't have something to do with later circumstances, like being a loner for example, with anti-social personality disorder, because again, a lot of the one's you mentioned were loners in their personal lives, whether by choice, or not, like all these Incels that sit around in their room staring at a computer screen all day and talking back and forth on all these hate sites, I think this breeds a lot of anger towards other people, and also being a racist plays a big role as well, I don't think it's a good thing to close yourself off from the world, so I would blame later surroundings as part of it, these people just get angrier with every passing day, they perceive that the world has done them wrong, and then one day, they lash out,
From prisoners and staff who have testified, Colin Ireland is apparently the most unsettling serial killer/prisoner they have met. One ex- governor who had looked after the moors murderers, the wests, etc said it was the one person they truly didn't want to be around
Well that makes no sense. Looked after the wests and the moors murderers? What was he then, the governer of the men's prisons and the women's prisons? They weren't all in the same prison lol
@@marsukarhu9477 People that have HIV are usually responsible people that let people know about. Don't forget that the person in question is the victim.
My brother inlaw works at Belmarsh as a prison officer (you might know him 😁), and he says there's animals in there that the public don't even know about. Like their crimes are purposely kept away from the media. There's a bloke in there atm who killed 4 people, in separate attacks, completely randomly, non gang affiliated, in the space of 7 months. Id find being in prison with those weirdos more frightening than the "famous" ones 😕
I believe they are all born to kill. I’ve had quite an unusually traumatic childhood and when I was 12 years old I covered my 5 y/o little sister’s mouth because she was screaming and I was afraid my mom would come. I held my hand over her mouth and for a few seconds, as I watched her struggle to breathe, I felt powerful and I felt in control. Control was something I never had as a child or a teenager. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t feel something close to good for those few seconds. Not because I was hurting my sister but the feeling of power and control. Immediately after I let go my little sister broke down crying. I’ll never forget the look she gave me. I felt immensely ashamed and disgusted with myself. I held her and apologized profusely. It’s something I wish I could take back and wish I had never done. When I think about it, which I do often, I break down crying hysterically and beg for forgiveness (to no one in particular, I’m always alone). I didn’t want to hurt my little sister, someone I had always protected fiercely and loved very much. I felt I had betrayed her and I did. I don’t want to hurt other people or myself. Ever. My point is, these people may have been in a blind rage or so overwhelmed with their emotions, or their deep need and desire to feel powerful, in control, or whatever it is for them, that they could’ve hurt or killed someone. Once. To do it a second time or many times tells me they are missing a piece that makes them human, or normal. These people sought out victims knowing their intentions. So I do believe they’re born to kill.
Some killers had frontal lobe damage when they were young. That destroys your feelings of empathy and your conscience is not right. There are a few things that go on with these killers for them to turn out the way they do.
@@Desertfox14 I agree. I thought my little brother was going to be a serial killer growing up. He had attacked me with a 12 inch kitchen knife once, smashed my head in with pool balls and hit me in the head with a metal baseball bat. All seriously viscous things for an 8 year old to do over normal kid things. I also knew he used a rock to take the head off a snake and hurt other innocent animals when he was really little. My older brother used to slam my head into anything and everything- the scars I have on my face each tell a different story. We were sexually abused by a few different men at extremely young ages, they were sexually abused by my grandfather when they went into foster care and were placed with him both times. We were beat pretty bad too, and the home we grew up in was chaotic- to say the least. I had a broken arm for 3 months when I was 7 before I was placed into the system and got care for it. That’s how neglected we were. All of these things can contribute to someone being a murderer. Growing up in a toxic environment where violence is normal and you’re forced to survive your entire childhood makes you feel crazy. Or like a wild animal. It programs you to react to things with extreme violence and perceive everything as an imminent threat. That *and* damage to your frontal lobe- which can happen with poor development, not just injuries- will make you dangerous. Luckily out of 7 kids I think my older brother is the only one who is a danger to the public. And he has the last pieces that serial killers tend to have- a strong lack of accountability, zero respect for women, and he’s handsome, charming and manipulative. These characteristics make him extremely dangerous. I know a lot of kids grow up in homes that are like this and it’s undoubtedly why we have so many people willing to go as far as rape and/or kill people. Things need to change.
@@anabelgamino1444 she got hurt playing with us and was crying/screaming really loud. It would’ve woke my mom up and when she was woken up it was not good. I was scared.
The coroner told police not to make it known that Shipman was being investigated. It tied their hands and they werent able to do much, although it is difficult to understand how any inquiry wouldn't have found a problem.
They don't "let them kill themselves" there are protocols in place that jailers Must,Follow. If the prisoner chooses to take their own life, they will work out how and when to do it. No matter how closely they are monitored.
Some believe that 'hell' is actually here on earth. Well, it could be reasonably argued that it is/was was for the poor victims of these inhumane real-life'devils'..
@@jlmadd We are given 'free will' to live our lives as we choose to do but egregious and wicked people use that 'freedom' to impose and control the lives of others. There is a 'reckoning' in the afterlife of that I am certain. The good and innocent will find peace and as for the 'others'? Let them find out when it's their time...
How on earth could this lot say he made mistakes? Of course 30 yrs on and 280 murders in most cases would be seen as an incredible success for a psychopath. As as is seen over and over again the police in Great Britain are for the most part, in this time period, incompetent and arrogant. I’ve encountered so many cases that this incompetence cost so many more victims. Thank you for an excellent program. Well done.
@@mebutnotme.Khan78Britain doesn't have a police force. Also, I'd say the Met is one of the most corrupt forces filled with criminals, rapists and murderers.
Incompetence or compliance? Ted Bundy was allowed to escape custody twice, Jeffrey Dahmer seemingly "talked his way out" of trouble...I see this pattern with almost ever serial killer...I don't believe in coincidence...I believe there is a lot more to many of these stories involving cults and secret societies
The whole going running thing is not weird. Running uncontrollably is a common reaction to death. Saying that, Shipman was heinous. Truly and unequivocally, heinous.
What I've always found noteworthy about the West case is that Rose appears to have been the more dominant force, both in the torture and murder side of things and in daily domestic life, despite being not only the female partner but also significantly younger than Fred. You might expect that a teenage girl from a difficult background falling into a relationship with an adult man who was already a dangerous criminal would have been very much under his thumb, but it appears to have turned out the other way around.
They were both manipulative. Don't forget that Rose was adored by West. She was essentially the centre of his world which is why, when she rejected him publicly, he couldn't possibly recover. Death was the only solution to prove his love for her. Weird I know but understandable to a warped mind!
.......very well explained. They were ALL extremely demented, damaged, deranged, & very dangerous. They should have all been put away in an asylum for the insane.
Her mind was effected before she was born, when her mother was pregnant with Rose, she would receive Electric Shock Therapy for severe depression, that very well effected Rose's brain and then having a toxic upbringing... its a classic recipe for disaster
I love everything you are doing for our homeless. It means so much to go out of your way to make less fortunate people more comfortable. So many people are negative and judgemental these days. I love your videos and send thanks and blessings to your family. Love you
That victim that knew he was hiv positive and out looking for men…unbelievable. People that do that should be charged with attempted murder everywhere.
I agree with you. Especially back then. But now as well. There are websites where HIV+ people can meet up with eachother. There's zero excuse for not informing people, condom or not! Whether or not there's a low instance of passing the illness on. Someone like me, with a depressed immune system would be dead long before the initial patient (and with my kidney failure, I can't take the HIV drugs people take).
@@englishteacher2641no such thing as safe sex when you have something deadly like that imo it's far too easy for a condom to break etc and that's a death sentence the only thing that would be ok in those circumstances would be to be completely honest from the start and leave it up to the potential partner to decide if they want to risk it or not
@@englishteacher2641also you can't say he was probably going to do anything just because that's the way you're thinking doesn't mean anyone else would have the same morals
In California it used to be a felony, now its a misdemeanor or less because they argue the victim can take medication for life and have a similar lifespan lol
Near the end it almost sounds like he shifts the blame on pornography. Most people, at least me for sure, can watch fictional gore movies and feel the rush for a bit before it becomes too much, but as soon as it comes real life its just too much to bare with. Thats why i have hard time believing him, or at least agreeing with him if he really does tell the truth. Even when I watch netflix's Jeffery Dahmer series, I feel sickened, and those arent even the real people or real dead people. Its the knowledge that this happened in real life to real people with real conciesness and eal feelings, not to a made up characters that dont actually exist.
No! He's not obsessed for his opinion being the only opinion. He's desperate for human response and interaction! But he's so socially inapt and incompetent, he feels the only way of having someone near him that listens and wants to understand him is if that person is inert or dead. It is a very tragic and disturbing disorder a person can have. Just tragic 😔
In the case of Harold shipmen, i think he was trying to " end " peoples suffering. I think his mother suffered before she died and the pain of loosing her, witnessing her pain was his " movtive " to murder. I think initially he decided to become a Doctor for two reasons, euthanasia and to help people. He was well liked in the community, i dont think he killed all of his patients ( so some would be alive to give accounts of their treatment from him and comment on his character). All of his patients seem to be elderly women. Maybe widows? Loners? I think in his mind it did start off as euthanasia, " to do them a favour " , he put them to sleep in a painfree way, no sign of sexual assault, i guess he saw it as being humane. In the case of the four year old, she was dying a slow death, her mother left the room, that was the opportunity for him with no witness's. Towards the end of his spree, he got greedy and decided to make money from his victims. I dont condone murder, but what if he had given his victims a choice before he injected them? No-one knows. If i were at the end of my line ( elderly, in pain, confined to a room or house ) and my Doctor offered me a morphine way out.. :me " help me to lift my arm up Doc ". R.i.p. to all of his victims. And R.I.P to all of the other victims of murder in the world. And to all friends and families of those who have lost, i hope you find some comfort knowing you were and are loved. Only our bodies die, we all live on x ❤
Neilson affected everybody in his life, he hurt them all an screwed up so many ppl and their lives, sad to hear how affected they still are, although this is a fairly old programme I wonder how they are now and if they are still alive ❤🙏
I just remember the horror of the moors murders. I am now 62 and I still hope that the last body will be found. There is a special place in hell for these people.
Boyyyy, thats cold blooded... the way Neilsons mother told him about his Grandfather. I'm sure that added to his mental issues. A parent/guardian can really eff up a child just by the way they talk or explain things to children react... ugh some people are so fuc ced up! Learn parenting skills before U go N have children... please!!! -eeviegrl💜 Was here🎉 🎉💜🎉💜 Oops i forgot the "e" in Neilson.
Gay’s and silly xxx games…. When u listen to most of their stories they get tricked with those silly games which makes it much easier for their killers to finish them off
To all those victims young and old plus all the families. I hope they were able to find some kind of peace. I hope some happiness as well after so much grief and abject horror. The poor mothers who never ever got to bury their daughter and son and died with never finding them. They are at least together now. I was eleven when all this happened. I had at this time been attacked myself it terrified me . That could been me.
Soon people will hear of the youtube serial killer. They were driven to commit one murder every time they were trying to sit down and enjoy a video. Then it was spoilt and interrupted by a pointless loud and annoying advertisement. I fear there will be many many bodies.
I agree. All are horrific psychopaths, but these two deviant sex fiends abused, raped, tortured, and murdered women, pregnant women, and their own children I find truly terrifying. And I’m willing to bet there is a lot they did we don’t even know about.
@@cherihayward350they had the same paraphilia. But they both denied it was about killing and said murder was distasteful & only a means to an end. Dahmer did experiment on ways to turn his victims into zombies. But I believe the essential essence of both of their paraphilia was a fascination with death. They both practiced necrophilia until the body became too decomposed to be used in this way. If they had really wanted a compliant partner they could have found a sub. A sub is a total passive who's paraphilia is to please their master. But they didn't, which tells me that was only part of the scenario. Neilson certainly attended a bar that had many men who practiced all types of BD, S&M and other fetishes. He could easily have hooked up with a sub. I am not sure Dahmer ever moved in those circles or even tried that. But the reality is the men had to be dead, for them to experience their greatest sexual desire. Death & killing is certainly a major component of the paraphilia. Unfortunately, psychologists take them both completely at their word on the subject of trying to find totally submissive partners.
Both genetics and environment play a role. Genes play a huge impact on the structure, function and chemistry of a human body. If genes get messed up, a variety of issue can arise. However, not all psychopaths have the same genetics. This tells me that a huge part of psychopathy is due to environment. Social needs must be met from infancy for proper development. If you do not answer your baby's cries, it learns not to trust that it's needs will be met. If you scream and yell around your baby, it is traumatic stress and wreaks havoc on the central nervous system. Babies have no defense and no ability to be independent. Their only defense is to soothe themselves with dissociation. These scenarios could create psychopathy as a result of burning out the nervous system and having to adapt to a chaotic environment. Turning off higher brain functions to survive. Being on autopilot. Having no control. No empathy can be a result of this. We know how serial killers are created. We have known for a while. However, it would cost way to much money to have specialists in schools identifying and treating them at age 3 when it is possible to intervene. So, we will have many more.
Myra Hindley was not born to kill??? Couldn’t Ian Brady state the same. Before he met Hindley all his fantasies were on paper. As far as I can see they enable each other and Hindley was as bad as Brady if not worse. He actually admitted what he’d done. She only admitted the crime when she thought she might get parole. She then had an affair with a nun and tried to get her to help her escape
They enticed women who went with them, partly because of Hindley. There was something sinister about the pair of them together. Toxic and aided each others worst sides...if they didn't meet, they may not have ended up as dangerous. Fred and the Nrs West similar. As we're those 2 young girls in Australia who murdered one of their mothers. Together, awful. Apart, unmet, who knows!
Once the media began warning these men about a gay serial killer. Their deaths were their own fault. I also think the police allowed it to continue as long as it did. All the victims were from the same place. The guy was huge, no one noticed him and the men he was leaving with were being murdered?? They knew the bar, no one was doing any surveillance on the place? Very strange.
I have zero empathy for anyone HIV+ who's having sex with unknowing men. His poor cat though did not deserve that. But the victim, back then, was walking around handing out death sentences. Even with a condom, would you want to risk that? I wouldn't.
The person who targeted and murdered gay men, the fact that the tabloid said ‘fairly slaughterer’, is so disgusting! I can’t believe that Fred West parents could actually behave this way towards a child, no wonder he became so evil! I’m not excusing him but that’s got to mess up a child’s mind. Caroline Owen is thankfully lucky to survive, even though she had to live with the trauma.. The person who laughed and said “Fred knew about destroying bodies “ and actually laughed, is so cold in his heart.
Freds siblings have disputed almost of what was "known" or reported and what they haven't disputed they have said "we all have our own versions of what happened and they think Fred's head injury and years of Roses input affected the way he remembered his childhood.
WHERE on earth did Jean Ritchie the biographer of Fred West get her information???? Fred’s dad was never ever known to be a child molester! The lads that all hung around together are now in their 80’s and are all still in touch with each other and our families. It’s not at all true that Fred was a sex mad child. They were all to shy to talk to the girls. All of the friends grew up to be fantastic husbands and fathers, they all agree that after the bike accident Fred then went strange and wasn’t friends with them anymore. Fred then went on to become the most heinous evil rapist killer. But please do not sully the reputation of his parents, they do not deserve that and are not here anymore to stick up for themselves. Rest in peace all of the poor victims of rose and Fred west.
Im sure am not the only one that listens to this to sleep... I wish they just narrate and reduce the background music and noise/effects... It's hard to sleep with the background noise. 😊😅
How sad is our societal history that people who were gay, prostitutes, and unwed mothers & their offspring (deemed bast**ds) were afraid to reach out for help, knowing they would either be chastised for their situations & preferences, or the police would simply not expend much energy investigating because of who they were. Shame on us.
I'm up to Fred & Rose, I can't do the rest of the video 😢 Living victims let us know what the dead ones went through before dying. Maybe I'll try to finish this later...
Chapter 5 Myra- do they not have ground penetrating radar equipment in the UK? It seems like that could help them find Keith's remains, yes it could take a long time but use that with the areas that were pointed out. So does the UK have that equipment? Couldn't they borrow it and at least try?
We have it of course but you have no idea of the vastness of the moors. Like the Badlands or Mohave desert. It is all peat which moves over time. You can use it as fire fuel. Part of his body could suddenly emerge due to the movement. We can only hope. The police will never give up.
@@margaretcastell9429 I see your point. I am not a member of his community but I also hope he will be found before his mother passes. We do not have Moors in my state so thank you for that information. I can't even begin to imagine the torture his mother goes through. The fact knowing she went with a shovel/spade is absolutely heartbreaking.
Don't get murdered, people! There's an army of psychologists, retired police and other professionals all too ready to air your private sexual life and pecadillos as your epitaph on UA-cam.
Shipmans surgery was not to far from where i live. Also Gorton with Hindly and brady is only a few miles away. Hmm i am thinking maybe this is not such a good place to live, not really it's ok. Poor Winnie god love her i hope she is with her little Keith now. 💗💗🌈🌈
I consider the prospect that if the female bar owner hadn't fell for his con, she may have become a victim of his killing spree to facilitate the robbery of her bar by Colin Ireland. Maybe even her children.
I got flagged and temporarily banned by someone for saying something negative about Fred west. Whoever did that is a very sad person.
Yeah yt is weird like that.
Twas prolly his boyfriend
I'm sure it was a leftist Demonrat.
Welcome to the "I've been banned club". 👍
That was me! Fred!
Poor little Myra, manipulated by the bad man. I don’t buy it. She was just as rotten as him.
Even worse
I don't think they ever implied that she was manipulated by him. She was a willing participlant and even instigator. In determining whether someone was "born to kill" they are simply suggesting that if she had not met Ian Brady and instead married a normal man and had a family, she had every chance of going on to live a normal life. This is the principle of folie a deux - one brings out the worst in the other.
Folie-à-deux doesn't mean that one person makes the other worse. Folie-à-deux is a type of delusional disorder mostly associated with a shared paranoia such as the FBI or aliens are after them. In killing pairs, there's usually a dominant and a submissive partner. It's possible that during their killing partnership, the dynamics changed between Fred and Rose. It may have been when Rose made her first individual kill but we can only speculate when this happened.
Karla Homolka, too. The women often get sympathy while all of the blame falls on the men.
well said
R.I.P to Winnie Johnson who went to her grave without ever finding her son.
I’d like to think she’s with him now 🕊️ …. If not, she is no longer in the agony she suffered in life after her son disappeared.
These killers do not care about ALL the lives they destroy, the utter despair they cause so many.
I can’t believe there’s a god who would let this happen to anyone. If there is, he had better beg forgiveness for this. RIP Winnie and Keith, and all the victims ❤
Medic surface
Rest in peace
God isn't letting this happen, he gave us the freedom to run things ourselves providing we obey him, with HIS set rules (Ten Commandments) Look how much of it we are not following!
Judgement Day will come, or has already in the form of well deserved wrath! Only He knows!
"Your grandad is here"
(in excitement) "He's home? Where is he?"
"In the kitchen"
Boy finds his grandad lying dead in a box.
How cruel and twisted is the way Nilsen's parents told him his grandfather had died?
Today, parents tell and show children too much, and too soon!
i was 32 yrs old in 1993 i cant believe i am 62 now and remember when this was all happening because i live near hither green south london ,i used to buy newspapers and would think how horrible this all was , these men look so normal thats the scary bit and yeah 32 yrs gone in the blink of an eye omg so much has changed x
@racheldoesacrylic4089 Me too. It was very concerning knowing he was out on the streets. I remember the newspaper reports too.
Yes! Changed for the worst!
After the pandemic the house of cards is collapsing world wide, both morally and economically!
The real interview with Dennis Nielsen is so cold and casual, I have heard it. Also the drama ‘Des’ is chillingly realistic, David Tennant did a great acting performance.
Jeffrey Dahmer and Dennis did the same things at the same time, not knowing anything about the other, opposite ends of the world. Both lonely gay men, both alcoholics, both don’t want the men to leave, so many things in common
R.I.P. Winnie Johnson (Kieth Bennett's Mother), our hearts break hearing her interviews & those told of her by others. Winnie never gave up searching, and never found peace 💞
She's with her son now, in my opinion that is peace.
That part at 2:10:38, where that guy Martyn who was friends with Denis Neilson starts to break down, that just breaks my heart. That poor man, realizing that his friend was a serial killer, and I'm willing to bet that guy Martyn was probably a really good friend to Neilson. Damn, that just rips my guts out.
L
P
Mmm l😊m😊
At one stage one of the forensic Psychologists says 'he seemed to have a knack of recognising vulnerable people'. Of course he did. He worked at the Job Centre & had been in the armed forces. He was trained to recognise them. At another stage David Wilson says Neilson said 'I didn't know I had the strength in me to strangle someone wit h a ligature.' Rubbish, all soldiers are taught this technique in basic training. It is a vital part of unarmed combat training.
he meant that mentally, not physically. anybody has the strength to strangle someone, but most people MENTALLY couldn’t do it. It’s a very personal and hands on way to kill someone as you are face to face and extremely close.
@@XxPeytonTurnerXx But he knew he had the mental strength to do this. His basic training would have unveiled this fact to him. When taught the use of a garrote he would have known whether he could do it come the time. Yes, certainly there can be some hesitation when the opportunity presents. But in the end he did exactly as trained. I am not sure he is being genuine about thinking he wasn't sure he could actually do it. Either physically or mentally. I think that once a course of action was decided in his mind he was committed. Nothing could stop him.
In the case of the boy who survived the moment had passed. By living he had ruined it for Nielson.
Also, not all soldiers are good soldiers. Army caterers may have basic training but all training has to be practiced.
The Shipman case was a huge turning point and saw the introduction of new laws and regulations such as minimum care standards and safeguarding procedures. I started out my career back in the late 90s' when there were next to no minimum standard, no proper inspections or procedures of any kind to flag up with the authorities. Nobody gave two shits what some bit of a kid thought or was concerned with over the word of a highly qualified doctor and there were few people fighting the corner for older people. It seems bizarre now to think he was allowed to return to practice after his conviction for forgery / drug abuse charges which gives some idea of how lax things were 😔
Exactly! Feet would not touch the floor now for anyone with a GMC/NMC registration who was caught on the thieve with any meds, let alone something as heavy duty as Pethidine!
But not much changed the fact Lucy letby was able to kill so many innocent children. There's a huge issue within the NHS and that's lack of communication and accountability. It's horrifying and heartbreaking 💔
Now there are standards where any irregularities with drugs are immediately tracked and reported
Myra was a “lost child” sent away to granny when parents couldn’t cope with two children.
@@Vortigan07 pethedine was what I was given when pregnant to take the pain away so I could sit up and have my meals. I suppose anything is dangerous in high quantities. I’m on controlled drugs permanently now. I could do ten years in prison for supply if I even give one dose of my medication away.
1. Yep, Ireland was definitely suffering from internalised homophobia & most likely disgusted about having sexual gay feelings or knowing he was gay.
2. The Wests were definitely one of the scariest couples that the world had seen. I remember when the story broke out, it was crazy. Rose was apparently the more dominanting one & killed her first victim at just age 17. That's all you need to know about her & Fred was a spineless sicko. That ITV drama (appropriate adult) took you into his mind very well & showed you how cold he truly was.
3. For Dennis there are no words, what a sickening & inhumane individual.
4. Shipman again no words, a greedy, manipulative POS who got away for far too long & all those poor elderly people & their families.
5. Don't talk to me about Hindley & Brady, they don't deserve any attention. Despicable pair
I loved the Teddy bear on him 😂
Dennis Nilson sounds like Jeffrey Dahlmer. Dahlmer was so afraid to be left alone that he'd do things like pour acid into his victim's heads to try and make them zombies. Then he'd sit and watch t.v. with the corpses, just like Nilson. It's horrific, but kinda sad that a thing like fear of abandonment would turn someone to do such horrible things.
*Dahmer.
So many parallels between Nilsen and Dahmer. 😮
Just the way Dahmer was is the exact reason guys didn't want to be around him, he was the reason he was alone all the time, just his weirdness, He could've probably had a regular gay relationship with someone, and if it wasn't for his creepy nature they could've lived together, but on the other hand, I don't think Dahmer could've been in an openly gay relationship because he was so ashamed of being homosexual, and I'm sure he didn't want his father Lionel knowing about anything like that.
Nah. It was the psychopathy that made them capable of doing it, as in brain abnormality. They were both weird already as children. The daddy issues just made their capacity to cope worse.
@@samhartford8677 You nailed it, damn good analogy, because after watching a documentary on Dahmer, he was weird as a kid, I wish I knew what makes people like this? did they not get a certain part of their brain when they were in the womb, or is it just a fact of life that some people are going to be born with the ability to do things like this, I guess I don't get it, I wish there was a definitive correct answer for why? I don't think anyone knows for certain, thank god there are more good people than bad, I mean most people would be like WTF, how could anyone do that ?
I lived in North London for four years - about a mile away from Nilsen’s flat in Muswell Hill. Gotta say, he’s a monster and all. But I’m kind of impressed he could find a flat big enough in Zone Two to hide 4 bodies on civil servants’ wage. The property market really has gone down the drain!!
Out the whole thing ur thinking of the property market 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@EM-rc4sl I know. I feel awful about it 😂
i dont blame you in this cost of living crisis@@Joekond89 :(((
😂😂😂
So did the bodies. That's what got him caught. Same with Dahmer. You might sag their life went down the drain. Or was that someone else's life?
I met Colin Ireland while volunteering at a homeless day centre. This was before Ireland himself volunteered at the night shelter. Ireland was one of four people I happened to meet who went on to commit murder.
Don't just tell hlf the story then!!! What was he like? Did nothing stand out to you at all?
@@DonnaFallon-si2nc I didn't have much interaction with him, just served him a few cups of tea. He was a tall powerfully built man and always dressed in combat fatigues, I could imagine he would easily overpower his victims. He would join us in the staff room and tell tales of his survivalist exploits. He learned from us about the night shelter, where he did his voluntary work. It was a terrible shock when we found out he was the "Gay Slayer".
Fred & Rosemary West story is something out of a nightmare. Literally, spine chilling. 🥶👹
Wimp
It's also pretty sickening how the documentary does it's best to put most of the blame on Fred West, and don't really put much emphasis on Rose's roles in the crimes.
@@steves1015 they said it was a fred west documentary. I understand your point, but couples who kill are harder to analyse together than apart
@@LordMonstruxthat could be true but it’s also possible if they had never met things would have been different with them. They fed off each other.
@@Harley_Girl68 yeah, I think that fred probably wouldn't have been motivated to kill as many women as he did without Rose (maybe 3), and I don't think rose would have gotten away with it if fred didn't help so it was a toxic combination
This has to be the most horrendous crimes in 20 years in the UK Its the sheer audacity. So cruel and evil it would raise an eye brow of all other psychopaths.
There’s still a plague of predators out there. These are a handful of fools that got caught.
They all get a rush from their chosen depravities.
All rape victims are treated like they are the ones did something wrong. Until this attitude changes, nothing will ever change. That should be a criminal offense against the so-called justice system.
i just wish everyone actually reported these horrific incidents.
i reckon there are more false reports than actual ones.
the actions of many women who lie have made it harder to believe everyone
@mowvu5380
It may be harder to believe, but it should not be taken out on the victims. The REAL victims. The children, men, and women who are brutally violated should not have to feel like the criminal. The liars can be flushed out and down the drain.
Honestly, there is no excuse for lying about such things as this.
@@barbaralamson7450 i sound harsh, don't want to victim blame.
but nobody will get caught if it's not reported. the courts often protect abusers anyway so it's shitty either way
Big hugs to those who survived. Obviously so mentally affected by what happened to them. Hurts my heart about what they did to people.
😅
@@bojang.7911 mate, WTF
Whoever did the sound effects needs to go back to school. Nearly all of em with the music is as loud if not louder than the narration.
Fred west had a very normal childhood, poor yes but a happy childhood living in post war Britain in the countryside. My father was his best friend, and says Fred’s parents were also lovely. My father left the village for an apprenticeship at 16 years old. Fred had 2 head injuries after that, 1 on a motorbike accident and 1 by falling down some metal stairs.
My father only saw him a couple of times after that when visiting my grandparents who still lived in the village. Dad says that Fred was never the same again, very distant and moody. Dad never bumped into him again. But Fred west definitely was not born to kill. Hope this was helpful
There was nothing normal about Fred's childhood and his sister confirmed that.What you saw in public never shows what goes on in private.
Fred's parents, like all abusive parents, usually come across as nice normal kindly people to everyone outside of the house. Your father only knew them when he himself was a child and would have seen the side of them that they presented to outsiders.
He got sexually abused by his whole family , his mother and sister included as long as he could remember...
The amount of times I've seen people comment that so n so had a lovely childhood and the parents were wonderful people is ridiculous, it's such a naive comment just because these parents were outwardly nice doesn't mean Jack parents can be completely different towards their children behind closed doors than they are to other people they know, I know because almost everyone that ever met my mother said she was such a nice lady and im an ungrateful child yet she used to sadistically torture myself and my older siblings physically and psychologically she excelled in torture and she always loved playing the victim ...
You can't say your opinion as a definitely type of answer, very naive or narcissistic comment seeing one side of a person and thinking you know it all even worse when based on someone else's views especially when it goes against actual verified fact
We are back to nature versus nurture. My opinion is some individuals have no empathy or emotional comprehension. Most of us to do these crimes is something unbelievable beyond our way of thinking .
It’s also in some cases helped by a combination of a bad experience of childhood. Like a perfect storm,but not in all cases.
There seems to often be a history of dysfunctional childhood and a head injury coinciding with nature and the three things creating a perfect storm.
I have personal experience with nature vs nurture and believe in nature. Scientist have a saying that nature is the gun and nurture is what pulls the trigger
@janethollman7894, Ya, I really think that we as a society will be seeing less and less of these types of killers because of all this technology we have now, with DNA, and these genealogy sites, I mean this kind of testing would scare most any criminal, knowing that they can be found out a lot easier now, genealogy caught the Golden State Killer, after like 40 years, and also the nor cal rapist, Roy Waller. so very cold cases are now being solved, but sadly I believe we will see more of these random spree killings, where a gunman barges in somewhere and opens fire with an AR, and this kind of thing scares me more than any serial killer, these random ones, i mean you don't even know if you can go shopping anymore without getting killed. scary world, lots of unhappy people out there
I agree. I think it’s mostly nature, people are born with the instinct and desire to harm and kill others. There are serial killers who’ve not suffered abuse. I.e. Dahmer, Col. Russ Williams, BTK, Myra Hyndley, Ken and Barbie killers, Bundy, Cottingham, Randy Kraft and others. It is true that most have suffered some and even severe abuse. But to say it’s all about upbringing, you have to ask what is it about the huge majority of people who grow up in abusive families that do NOT turn out to be killers? Serial killers are born genetically predisposed toward violence. Add in childhood abuse and there is little hope these prone to or born to be violent individuals will not hurt/kill others. Nature, genetic predisposition has to be present though … without it, serial killers wouldn’t do what they do, no matter their upbringing.
@@teresas8173 Although child abuse would be a strong factor for someone growing up to be a killer, it's not always the case, because like you said, some people go through hell as children and they come out of it to lead productive normal lives, but like a lot of the people you mentioned, they grew up in loving family's, I'm not sure about being born to kill, but it's highly possible, I've always wondered if it doesn't have something to do with later circumstances, like being a loner for example, with anti-social personality disorder, because again, a lot of the one's you mentioned were loners in their personal lives, whether by choice, or not, like all these Incels that sit around in their room staring at a computer screen all day and talking back and forth on all these hate sites, I think this breeds a lot of anger towards other people, and also being a racist plays a big role as well, I don't think it's a good thing to close yourself off from the world, so I would blame later surroundings as part of it, these people just get angrier with every passing day, they perceive that the world has done them wrong, and then one day, they lash out,
From prisoners and staff who have testified, Colin Ireland is apparently the most unsettling serial killer/prisoner they have met. One ex- governor who had looked after the moors murderers, the wests, etc said it was the one person they truly didn't want to be around
Well that makes no sense. Looked after the wests and the moors murderers? What was he then, the governer of the men's prisons and the women's prisons? They weren't all in the same prison lol
Yeah well he looks sinister af
He speaks a lot about the crimes, but I still have no idea why he did it. Yeah, that's one sick puppy...
@@marsukarhu9477 People that have HIV are usually responsible people that let people know about. Don't forget that the person in question is the victim.
@@englishteacher2641 ??????
Anyone els does there house work to these horrific stories? And thinks I’m never leaving the house 😢
Watch in bed at nite then wonder why i can’t sleep?
I listen while i do my housework as well 😂
I knew one killer I met him in belmarsh in London, he was going through the system to get to Broadmoor ( DAVID COPELAND) the shoebox bomber!
My brother inlaw works at Belmarsh as a prison officer (you might know him 😁), and he says there's animals in there that the public don't even know about. Like their crimes are purposely kept away from the media. There's a bloke in there atm who killed 4 people, in separate attacks, completely randomly, non gang affiliated, in the space of 7 months.
Id find being in prison with those weirdos more frightening than the "famous" ones 😕
If she were really reformed, she would not want to be free after what she did.
Horrific demonic devils, tears for the victims. May the victims rest in peace.
I believe they are all born to kill.
I’ve had quite an unusually traumatic childhood and when I was 12 years old I covered my 5 y/o little sister’s mouth because she was screaming and I was afraid my mom would come. I held my hand over her mouth and for a few seconds, as I watched her struggle to breathe, I felt powerful and I felt in control. Control was something I never had as a child or a teenager. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t feel something close to good for those few seconds. Not because I was hurting my sister but the feeling of power and control. Immediately after I let go my little sister broke down crying. I’ll never forget the look she gave me. I felt immensely ashamed and disgusted with myself. I held her and apologized profusely. It’s something I wish I could take back and wish I had never done. When I think about it, which I do often, I break down crying hysterically and beg for forgiveness (to no one in particular, I’m always alone). I didn’t want to hurt my little sister, someone I had always protected fiercely and loved very much. I felt I had betrayed her and I did. I don’t want to hurt other people or myself. Ever.
My point is, these people may have been in a blind rage or so overwhelmed with their emotions, or their deep need and desire to feel powerful, in control, or whatever it is for them, that they could’ve hurt or killed someone. Once. To do it a second time or many times tells me they are missing a piece that makes them human, or normal. These people sought out victims knowing their intentions. So I do believe they’re born to kill.
Some killers had frontal lobe damage when they were young. That destroys your feelings of empathy and your conscience is not right. There are a few things that go on with these killers for them to turn out the way they do.
Why was your sister screaming?
@@Desertfox14 I agree. I thought my little brother was going to be a serial killer growing up. He had attacked me with a 12 inch kitchen knife once, smashed my head in with pool balls and hit me in the head with a metal baseball bat. All seriously viscous things for an 8 year old to do over normal kid things. I also knew he used a rock to take the head off a snake and hurt other innocent animals when he was really little. My older brother used to slam my head into anything and everything- the scars I have on my face each tell a different story. We were sexually abused by a few different men at extremely young ages, they were sexually abused by my grandfather when they went into foster care and were placed with him both times. We were beat pretty bad too, and the home we grew up in was chaotic- to say the least. I had a broken arm for 3 months when I was 7 before I was placed into the system and got care for it. That’s how neglected we were.
All of these things can contribute to someone being a murderer. Growing up in a toxic environment where violence is normal and you’re forced to survive your entire childhood makes you feel crazy. Or like a wild animal. It programs you to react to things with extreme violence and perceive everything as an imminent threat. That *and* damage to your frontal lobe- which can happen with poor development, not just injuries- will make you dangerous.
Luckily out of 7 kids I think my older brother is the only one who is a danger to the public. And he has the last pieces that serial killers tend to have- a strong lack of accountability, zero respect for women, and he’s handsome, charming and manipulative. These characteristics make him extremely dangerous.
I know a lot of kids grow up in homes that are like this and it’s undoubtedly why we have so many people willing to go as far as rape and/or kill people. Things need to change.
@@anabelgamino1444 she got hurt playing with us and was crying/screaming really loud. It would’ve woke my mom up and when she was woken up it was not good. I was scared.
@@Katiee0592 Just keep yourself safe. You can only try to help another person to an extent.
The coroner told police not to make it known that Shipman was being investigated. It tied their hands and they werent able to do much, although it is difficult to understand how any inquiry wouldn't have found a problem.
I actually believe that...smh
CORRUPTION.
Omg how do we help that woman find her boy Kieth so she can put him to rest??!
Think she's died now.
I live near these moors and they're huge.
I'm so sick of hearing the jailer(s) letting criminals kill themselves!
Same, but think of the tax money we save and also they do not live any longer a cushy life on us
.
They don't "let them kill themselves" there are protocols in place that jailers Must,Follow. If the prisoner chooses to take their own life, they will work out how and when to do it. No matter how closely they are monitored.
Less tax money
Some believe that 'hell' is actually here on earth. Well, it could be reasonably argued that it is/was was for the poor victims of these inhumane real-life'devils'..
It has to be. An all knowing Good Loving God can’t intervene for victims? That makes no sense
@@jlmadd We are given 'free will' to live our lives as we choose to do but egregious and wicked people use that 'freedom' to impose and control the lives of others. There is a 'reckoning' in the afterlife of that I am certain. The good and innocent will find peace and as for the 'others'? Let them find out when it's their time...
How on earth could this lot say he made mistakes? Of course 30 yrs on and 280 murders in most cases would be seen as an incredible success for a psychopath. As as is seen over and over again the police in Great Britain are for the most part, in this time period, incompetent and arrogant. I’ve encountered so many cases that this incompetence cost so many more victims. Thank you for an excellent program. Well done.
No gb police, only Scottish or english police. Seperate law.
Britain has the best police force in the world
That may be true, but thank goodness, on the whole, those attitudes have changed. And investigative techniques have also changed over the years.
@@mebutnotme.Khan78Britain doesn't have a police force. Also, I'd say the Met is one of the most corrupt forces filled with criminals, rapists and murderers.
Incompetence or compliance? Ted Bundy was allowed to escape custody twice, Jeffrey Dahmer seemingly "talked his way out" of trouble...I see this pattern with almost ever serial killer...I don't believe in coincidence...I believe there is a lot more to many of these stories involving cults and secret societies
The whole going running thing is not weird. Running uncontrollably is a common reaction to death.
Saying that, Shipman was heinous. Truly and unequivocally, heinous.
What I've always found noteworthy about the West case is that Rose appears to have been the more dominant force, both in the torture and murder side of things and in daily domestic life, despite being not only the female partner but also significantly younger than Fred. You might expect that a teenage girl from a difficult background falling into a relationship with an adult man who was already a dangerous criminal would have been very much under his thumb, but it appears to have turned out the other way around.
Maybe that was what Fred wanted.
They were both manipulative. Don't forget that Rose was adored by West. She was essentially the centre of his world which is why, when she rejected him publicly, he couldn't possibly recover. Death was the only solution to prove his love for her. Weird I know but understandable to a warped mind!
.......very well explained. They were ALL extremely demented, damaged, deranged, & very dangerous. They should have all been put away in an asylum for the insane.
A match made in hell.
Her mind was effected before she was born, when her mother was pregnant with Rose, she would receive Electric Shock Therapy for severe depression, that very well effected Rose's brain and then having a toxic upbringing... its a classic recipe for disaster
Racking up an impressive criminal record? Wtaf. No criminal record is impressive. Whoever the guy speaking he needs a reality check
Thank you as always, darling Adrian.
You are welcome
Louis Schlesinger, David Wilson! Heavy Weights in the crime world. Outstanding doc.
Ripple effect, men shouldn’t know today that if you leave.. there’s a good chance you’re ruining your child’s life
i hope Keith is found one day. the moors do change and shift over time and thats why he will be found, im just sorry whinny wont see it
How do they change? It’s solid ground, isn’t it?
@@Katiee0592 landscape changes, the Pennines were really prominent hills 30 years ago, now they're almost flat in comparison
I love everything you are doing for our homeless. It means so much to go out of your way to make less fortunate people more comfortable. So many people are negative and judgemental these days. I love your videos and send thanks and blessings to your family. Love you
Nilsen and Dahmer had very similar motives.
That victim that knew he was hiv positive and out looking for men…unbelievable. People that do that should be charged with attempted murder everywhere.
I agree with you. Especially back then. But now as well. There are websites where HIV+ people can meet up with eachother. There's zero excuse for not informing people, condom or not! Whether or not there's a low instance of passing the illness on. Someone like me, with a depressed immune system would be dead long before the initial patient (and with my kidney failure, I can't take the HIV drugs people take).
He was probably going to practice safe sex.
@@englishteacher2641no such thing as safe sex when you have something deadly like that imo it's far too easy for a condom to break etc and that's a death sentence the only thing that would be ok in those circumstances would be to be completely honest from the start and leave it up to the potential partner to decide if they want to risk it or not
@@englishteacher2641also you can't say he was probably going to do anything just because that's the way you're thinking doesn't mean anyone else would have the same morals
In California it used to be a felony, now its a misdemeanor or less because they argue the victim can take medication for life and have a similar lifespan lol
Near the end it almost sounds like he shifts the blame on pornography. Most people, at least me for sure, can watch fictional gore movies and feel the rush for a bit before it becomes too much, but as soon as it comes real life its just too much to bare with. Thats why i have hard time believing him, or at least agreeing with him if he really does tell the truth.
Even when I watch netflix's Jeffery Dahmer series, I feel sickened, and those arent even the real people or real dead people. Its the knowledge that this happened in real life to real people with real conciesness and eal feelings, not to a made up characters that dont actually exist.
No! He's not obsessed for his opinion being the only opinion. He's desperate for human response and interaction! But he's so socially inapt and incompetent, he feels the only way of having someone near him that listens and wants to understand him is if that person is inert or dead. It is a very tragic and disturbing disorder a person can have. Just tragic 😔
You should provide subtitles for many of these interviewees... so many are unable to speak their own King's English coherently.
In the case of Harold shipmen, i think he was trying to " end " peoples suffering. I think his mother suffered before she died and the pain of loosing her, witnessing her pain was his " movtive " to murder. I think initially he decided to become a Doctor for two reasons, euthanasia and to help people. He was well liked in the community, i dont think he killed all of his patients ( so some would be alive to give accounts of their treatment from him and comment on his character). All of his patients seem to be elderly women. Maybe widows? Loners? I think in his mind it did start off as euthanasia, " to do them a favour " , he put them to sleep in a painfree way, no sign of sexual assault, i guess he saw it as being humane. In the case of the four year old, she was dying a slow death, her mother left the room, that was the opportunity for him with no witness's. Towards the end of his spree, he got greedy and decided to make money from his victims. I dont condone murder, but what if he had given his victims a choice before he injected them? No-one knows. If i were at the end of my line ( elderly, in pain, confined to a room or house ) and my Doctor offered me a morphine way out.. :me " help me to lift my arm up Doc ". R.i.p. to all of his victims. And R.I.P to all of the other victims of murder in the world. And to all friends and families of those who have lost, i hope you find some comfort knowing you were and are loved. Only our bodies die, we all live on x ❤
R.I.P Winnie, finally with Keith ❤
Neilson affected everybody in his life, he hurt them all an screwed up so many ppl and their lives, sad to hear how affected they still are, although this is a fairly old programme I wonder how they are now and if they are still alive ❤🙏
I just remember the horror of the moors murders. I am now 62 and I still hope that the last body will be found.
There is a special place in hell for these people.
Boyyyy, thats cold blooded... the way Neilsons mother told him about his Grandfather. I'm sure that added to his mental issues. A parent/guardian can really eff up a child just by the way they talk or explain things to children react... ugh some people are so fuc ced up! Learn parenting skills before U go N have children... please!!!
-eeviegrl💜
Was here🎉
🎉💜🎉💜
Oops i forgot the "e" in Neilson.
Not human nor animal ... Monsters
Poor cat
Is this thumping "music" really necessary? I think not.
All the music is too loud and annoying.
Gay’s and silly xxx games…. When u listen to most of their stories they get tricked with those silly games which makes it much easier for their killers to finish them off
To all those victims young and old plus all the families. I hope they were able to find some kind of peace. I hope some happiness as well after so much grief and abject horror. The poor mothers who never ever got to bury their daughter and son and died with never finding them. They are at least together now. I was eleven when all this happened. I had at this time been attacked myself it terrified me . That could been me.
Soon people will hear of the youtube serial killer. They were driven to commit one murder every time they were trying to sit down and enjoy a video. Then it was spoilt and interrupted by a pointless loud and annoying advertisement. I fear there will be many many bodies.
😂❤😂
every time I see a picture of one of the wests pop up I am nearly sick and I do not watch the video.
The background noises and music is so distracting from the talking! I have to keep rewinding to hear whats happening
That's a sign of ADD! Sorry for your affliction!
Education does not seem to be an innoculation against evil
I want to know what happened to Dennis Nilsen’s adorable puppy. Poor thing.
Been from the UK myself out of them all it's Fred & Rose West I find the most scary and chilling
I agree. All are horrific psychopaths, but these two deviant sex fiends abused, raped, tortured, and murdered women, pregnant women, and their own children I find truly terrifying. And I’m willing to bet there is a lot they did we don’t even know about.
I'm sure Neilson's motto was 'I savour only the Dearly Departed'
Neilson and dahmer have the same warped views in my opinion
@@cherihayward350they had the same paraphilia. But they both denied it was about killing and said murder was distasteful & only a means to an end.
Dahmer did experiment on ways to turn his victims into zombies. But I believe the essential essence of both of their paraphilia was a fascination with death. They both practiced necrophilia until the body became too decomposed to be used in this way.
If they had really wanted a compliant partner they could have found a sub. A sub is a total passive who's paraphilia is to please their master. But they didn't, which tells me that was only part of the scenario.
Neilson certainly attended a bar that had many men who practiced all types of BD, S&M and other fetishes. He could easily have hooked up with a sub. I am not sure Dahmer ever moved in those circles or even tried that. But the reality is the men had to be dead, for them to experience their greatest sexual desire. Death & killing is certainly a major component of the paraphilia.
Unfortunately, psychologists take them both completely at their word on the subject of trying to find totally submissive partners.
@@cherihayward350gay skinny looking awkward serial killers lol, that's what I see
How can those first 3 monsters only get a life sentence?!
Both genetics and environment play a role. Genes play a huge impact on the structure, function and chemistry of a human body. If genes get messed up, a variety of issue can arise. However, not all psychopaths have the same genetics. This tells me that a huge part of psychopathy is due to environment. Social needs must be met from infancy for proper development. If you do not answer your baby's cries, it learns not to trust that it's needs will be met. If you scream and yell around your baby, it is traumatic stress and wreaks havoc on the central nervous system. Babies have no defense and no ability to be independent. Their only defense is to soothe themselves with dissociation. These scenarios could create psychopathy as a result of burning out the nervous system and having to adapt to a chaotic environment. Turning off higher brain functions to survive. Being on autopilot. Having no control. No empathy can be a result of this. We know how serial killers are created. We have known for a while. However, it would cost way to much money to have specialists in schools identifying and treating them at age 3 when it is possible to intervene. So, we will have many more.
Myra Hindley was not born to kill??? Couldn’t Ian Brady state the same. Before he met Hindley all his fantasies were on paper. As far as I can see they enable each other and Hindley was as bad as Brady if not worse. He actually admitted what he’d done. She only admitted the crime when she thought she might get parole. She then had an affair with a nun and tried to get her to help her escape
They enticed women who went with them, partly because of Hindley. There was something sinister about the pair of them together. Toxic and aided each others worst sides...if they didn't meet, they may not have ended up as dangerous. Fred and the Nrs West similar. As we're those 2 young girls in Australia who murdered one of their mothers. Together, awful. Apart, unmet, who knows!
Patricia
I agree with you. I don't believe Brady would have killed children. Myra having a car and being present as a woman enabled it.
She was born to kill.
In the context...yes..if you look at the context comprehensively...///. He didn't mean she's less guilty
Agree...
Once the media began warning these men about a gay serial killer. Their deaths were their own fault.
I also think the police allowed it to continue as long as it did. All the victims were from the same place. The guy was huge, no one noticed him and the men he was leaving with were being murdered?? They knew the bar, no one was doing any surveillance on the place? Very strange.
…the gay slayer. Bad choice of wording??
Girl😭...
I have zero empathy for anyone HIV+ who's having sex with unknowing men. His poor cat though did not deserve that. But the victim, back then, was walking around handing out death sentences. Even with a condom, would you want to risk that? I wouldn't.
The person who targeted and murdered gay men, the fact that the tabloid said ‘fairly slaughterer’, is so disgusting! I can’t believe that Fred West parents could actually behave this way towards a child, no wonder he became so evil! I’m not excusing him but that’s got to mess up a child’s mind. Caroline Owen is thankfully lucky to survive, even though she had to live with the trauma.. The person who laughed and said “Fred knew about destroying bodies “ and actually laughed, is so cold in his heart.
Freds siblings have disputed almost of what was "known" or reported and what they haven't disputed they have said "we all have our own versions of what happened and they think Fred's head injury and years of Roses input affected the way he remembered his childhood.
I think that was 'fairy' which was a homophobic slur.
It was "Fairy" not fairly. And yes it was a horrible unacceptable headline.
Fairy Liquid is a well known detergent, so Fairy Liquidator was a pretty clever headline actually!😁
RIP to Carl Stotter who has since died. I think suicide, bless him
diabetic ketoacidosis via alcoholism so pretty close
Poor man.
The thing with Shipman is that a lot of his 'victims' had terminal illness'
There is a school of thought that calls what he done, euthanasia
WHERE on earth did Jean Ritchie the biographer of Fred West get her information???? Fred’s dad was never ever known to be a child molester!
The lads that all hung around together are now in their 80’s and are all still in touch with each other and our families. It’s not at all true that Fred was a sex mad child. They were all to shy to talk to the girls. All of the friends grew up to be fantastic husbands and fathers, they all agree that after the bike accident Fred then went strange and wasn’t friends with them anymore. Fred then went on to become the most heinous evil rapist killer. But please do not sully the reputation of his parents, they do not deserve that and are not here anymore to stick up for themselves.
Rest in peace all of the poor victims of rose and Fred west.
Im sure am not the only one that listens to this to sleep... I wish they just narrate and reduce the background music and noise/effects... It's hard to sleep with the background noise. 😊😅
Professor David Wilson once again telling us what is already in the public domain … has he ever profiled anyone before they commit a crime.
Do you live in the realm of minority report?
Crazy to think that Myra would get out
Myra Hindley died behind bars a while ago
You know I keep watching but I can't stand that music I can hardly hear them talking
Me too...smile 😊
Kudos to the police for finding his fingerprint on the window.
How sad is our societal history that people who were gay, prostitutes, and unwed mothers & their offspring (deemed bast**ds) were afraid to reach out for help, knowing they would either be chastised for their situations & preferences, or the police would simply not expend much energy investigating because of who they were. Shame on us.
I'm up to Fred & Rose, I can't do the rest of the video 😢 Living victims let us know what the dead ones went through before dying. Maybe I'll try to finish this later...
Chapter 5 Myra- do they not have ground penetrating radar equipment in the UK? It seems like that could help them find Keith's remains, yes it could take a long time but use that with the areas that were pointed out. So does the UK have that equipment? Couldn't they borrow it and at least try?
We have it of course but you have no idea of the vastness of the moors. Like the Badlands or Mohave desert. It is all peat which moves over time. You can use it as fire fuel. Part of his body could suddenly emerge due to the movement. We can only hope. The police will never give up.
@@margaretcastell9429 I see your point. I am not a member of his community but I also hope he will be found before his mother passes. We do not have Moors in my state so thank you for that information. I can't even begin to imagine the torture his mother goes through. The fact knowing she went with a shovel/spade is absolutely heartbreaking.
Fred was a coward to go out like this instead of facing the music bravo
Fred west's brother denies the incest allegations
It is not uncommon for just one or two children to be subjected to it within a family.
Did the Narrator say "Peterphile"😆
It not only the victims but the families and friends also suffered
11:07 classic psychopath, always taking what he needs, so as to continue in the lifestyle that he wants.
DON'T MESS UP YOUR KIDS!!!!!
Can you imagine if Dhamer and Nielsen would of hooked up 😮
Nah, Dhamer preferred black men.
@@seansmith445 lol I meant more partners in crime not in that way 😭
@@richardsmith8790 🤣
Hahaha both would of been like "Ohhh we had the same idea"
You need to read "Exquisite Corpse, " that's literally the premise.
Don't get murdered, people! There's an army of psychologists, retired police and other professionals all too ready to air your private sexual life and pecadillos as your epitaph on UA-cam.
If you have been murdered do you actually care? I mean the dead person is not around anymore to know any of this.
@@wolftone57their families might still be around though
@@OpticMoos yes there is that
Shipmans surgery was not to far from where i live. Also Gorton with Hindly and brady is only a few miles away. Hmm i am thinking maybe this is not such a good place to live, not really it's ok. Poor Winnie god love her i hope she is with her little Keith now. 💗💗🌈🌈
If he hadnt killed himself he would just be getting out now.
I doubt it, Richard. He would have nbeen given a whole life sentence .
29:00 HE KILLED A CAT?!! 😡🤬
Colin Ireland - Britain's Ed Kemper
Hindly was not helping look for little Keith she was just having a day out of jail she manipulated everyone involved.
She and Ian absolutely tortured Keith’s mother. All she wanted was to bring her son home and put to rest properly and they selfishly played games
Sad story 😢
too many loud commercials!!!
No commercials if you pay for premium
I consider the prospect that if the female bar owner hadn't fell for his con, she may have become a victim of his killing spree to facilitate the robbery of her bar by Colin Ireland. Maybe even her children.
OMG 😱 WHY 🤯
20:02 n he got that saying 'he trust him up like a chicken from the Iron Maidan song '22 Acacia avenue pmsl.
He looks like he was from Hungarian descent. My hungarian blue eyed friend looked like west but not evil or a killer.