Don’t worry, you were not being “too technical”, we understand it. This is what we want more of. We don’t need more low level info, we want deep dives like this your 30% black level comparison numbers. This is good info to have.
Great video! It's nice to see more reviews of these types of projectors. It looks like DLP might be making a huge comeback, especially with Valerion pushing the limits of the 0.47 chipset and their EBL dimming feature. From what I understand, these projectors are around 2K native resolution and can achieve 13-15K dynamic contrast, with very few downsides according to the feedback so far. In the video, it’s mentioned that the Christie 4KM15 was set up with 350 nits and a 0.05 nit black level, resulting in roughly a 7000:1 native contrast ratio. What contrast ratio and black floor are you running on your JVC? You mentioned that your JVC performs exceptionally well in terms of contrast, so I would guess it’s over 40K native? I’m scheduled to demo the new Barco Heimdall+ and Nerthus on the 29th. The Heimdall+ is rated at 6000 lumens, but I’m unsure of its native contrast. It uses Barco's Dynablack dimming, so I’m looking forward to seeing that. It also features the new 0.80" native 4K DLP chip, which I suspect Christie may also be working on. I’ve already demoed the Christie 4KM15 and was quite impressed. The Barco Freya+ seems slightly sharper, but during moving/movie content, the difference in sharpness was very subtle for me.
Very interesting, thank you. A few years ago I was able to spend some time with a 3 DMD DCi Barco bulb projector, and I was blown away by the colors and the fidelity of the image, especially the red was so deep and vibrant.
To my understanding, the ISF ranks contrast ratio as the single most important factor in image quality. Listening to you, I got the impression that colour volume trumps contrast ratio when comparing these projectors. I'd love to hear Dwayne comment on this. Is the ISF wrong, or is there a threshold where colour volume trumps contrast ratio?
@@isak6626 I think what you might be hearing in the video is his enthusiasm and appreciation for the brightness plus the color volume however, I’m not sure if it’s this video or another short clip. He does comment that these projectors not having the greatest black levels gets trumped by their amazing contrast.
@hddanman7263 Yes, and that's surprising, given what the ISF says about factors determining image quality. Perhaps the ISF's view is outdated given recent developments in in colour reproduction, or perhaps colour reproduction can trump contrast if the difference is big enough.
@ I think we might be not understanding each other 100% but I think what we’re both saying is that contrast is the most important thing but when you reach a certain level of contrast, it becomes less of the number one thing so if the projector has great contrast good black level then color is going to be the next biggest factor to look at also from the video. I think what he saying, and I’ve come to the conclusion as well is that unless you’re looking at a really dark scene in a movie the black level and contrast doesn’t matter as much because those scenes are one in 100 the rest is displaying colors so what, are you gonna favor spending your money on some thing that does contrast levels once in a while or the majority of what you’re watching which is bright scenes with colors. I hope this clears discussion up a little.
Much respect to you & DeWayne for dishing out the hard-hitting technical justifications for high brightness projectors. There's no doubt that professional DLPs throw an extremely compelling image for the majority of content, and that leaving the high end of the signal uncompressed (or lightly so) can produce stunning FX. But I don't think you've given the argument for high-contrast projectors and/or stronger software compression a fair shake. Or that you've documented the downsides of operating a 300+ nit DLP at the same level of depth that you gave to e.g. RGB laser color volume or LCOS (lack of) sharpness. The issue with raised blacks isn't that 0.05nit is too bright in an absolute sense (though in a suitably high performance room, I'd argue that is also true). It's how the underlying physics that elevated said black floor are effectively compressing ALL of the luma values toward the low end of the signal. The system as a whole simply doesn't have the performance headroom to render shadow details. (For an audio analogy, consider a speaker that can technically output 110dB SPL max, but upon closer look has lots of compression above 95dB. Saying it "gets loud enough" is true, but doesn't tell you how much the peaks have been distorted en route to your ears. Or how the "native 4K" competitors you compared these wobblers against showed what appeared to be individual pixels, yet completely fell apart when trying to resolve frequency sweeps or tiny text.) Concretely, this matters when the shadows onscreen are used not just to create a cinematic backdrop, but as central storytelling elements. Think the Deathly Hallows from Harry Potter, or the Long Night in GoT. Such scenes take the black-crush issue from "not quite as dark as I'd prefer" to "I literally can't tell what is happening onscreen". THAT's what people are addressing when they cross-shop higher-contrast displays and/or dial in their preferred tone mapping. Smoothing out the low-end compression over a wider bandwidth (while correcting for misc color shifts & other perceptual quirks) will change the absolute level of shadow details (vs a reference monitor), yes, but I'd argue that they are simply recovering a comparable level of "visibility" that the monitor had instead achieved via raw headroom/fidelity. On the bright side (heh), this convo did reveal one important data point I'd never seen documented elsewhere: how black floor on these models does not rise linearly with laser level / white level, as it typically does with other projection technologies. Especially important for those of us with Christie envy, but whose small rooms (or desire to minimize heat & noise) don't need 15K+ lumens to put hundreds of nits onscreen.
When has Matt ever played a sound clip or given any pictures of live video in his UA-cam videos that’s not what this channel is for. He’s a professional if you want gimmicks there’s tons of theater UA-cam videos for that.
The problem with showing images or videos of the projector is that it won’t show you anything. First, the camera doesn’t have the dynamic range of your eye and won’t accurately pick up the projected image. It could be adjusted to mimic it, but it would be my opinion that it’s similar based on what I see in my uncalibrated displays. My display can’t reproduce what the projector can no can my camera pick it up. Then to round it all off, you would watch it in a display that likely also can’t reproduce what it was putting out. So it wouldn’t really tell you anything. I did shoot some video of the projectors images. I also shot pics. And when I reviewed them, it was obvious they weren’t accurate or useful. I May put them into a video, but it would simply be to make a point. The 4K860 could look as good or even better in my camera than the M4K15 depending on the cameras setting. And it made the poor blacks of the M4K860 look good. I’ve talked for a long time about why the UA-cam audio auditions are a useless waste of time that tell you nothing. I even brought on leading experts who invented accurate technology for doing so (and even their correct method was not fully accurate). But yet it persists and people argue with me. I am sure the same will happen here. But do know, nothing I say if this nature is just my opinion. I tried it, it looked bad. I requested help from experts. Who pointed out the flaws in my approach and the inability to do what I wanted to do. I realized it was a fools errand. And I gave up. If you want to see the quality of this projector you will need to get a demo.
@@PoesAcousticsTotally understand that. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be different from other UA-camrs. But when other review channels talk about displays they usually show the display in action. Those of us in the hobby KNOW to listen to your words over just watching the video and coming to a conclusion. Audio even more as UA-cam doesn’t do any of the premium audio formats. So there’s no way to give an example of that.
@@Gillietalls the problem is that, in my experience, people do actually allow the viewing experience or sound experience to sway them. Even if it’s false. There will be some content showing the images and such. But it’s not going to be for review purpose and shouldn’t be used that way. I like to think I am different from other UA-camrs because of who I am and what I do. I am a leading expert in my field who also happens to have a somewhat popular UA-cam channel. I design expensive ultimate performance theaters, sit on numerous CEDIA committees, am a trainer for CEDIA, and an authority on measurement and acoustics.
This video was awesome and Dwayne is a freaking Legend i remember him from when the pioneer Kuro 151 plasma was king of the TVs and he was the Top calibrator 💪💪🔥🔥🔥
This is interesting. I have had 3 JVC projectors now and love them. Back in 09 my first projector was a Benq w6000 on a 125” screen, the image it produced was jaw dropping for the price.
I am fairly certain that projector is the same one in Atlanta Home Theater's Ascendo room I saw a few months back. I am also a JVC person like you, and have the same reaction as you when I saw how freaking bright the image was on 185in screen. Thinking I could shoot that down to 150 would be nuts and I have the ability to put one in a hush room. Let me know how you convince your wife to get one so I can convince mine, that could be a follow up video lol.
His posts on AVS helped me dial in my Kuro KRP-500M and ZT60. His posts also convinced me to move on to OLED but sometimes I think the Plamas have a more natural looking picture. Based on the price I will have to stick with JVC I think. Crazy that he's pushing higher light output when for years he preached that contrast and color fidelity were king. Guess that's the change from SDR to HDR. Maybe if I win the lottery 😂.
We also know Christie is working on an equivalent of Barco's Dynablack technology, similar to what valerian vison master uses. This should improve blacks further. But they keep saying it and a year goes by. Lets hope they stick to early next year. We should also expect a native 4k version with the new smaller chips where we expect a tad better black as well. Barco's new native 4k equivalent do have better blacks but dont go near as bright. 6000k lumens.
I don’t know that is true. The black level of the Barcos natively with no tricks have not measured lower than this that I am aware of. They also don’t have any tri lasers in this price point. They have one coming. But it’s a single DLP chip. That would be the one to watch. But it’s not here yet. And yes I have it on hood authority that their new laser dimming feature is coming soon.
@@PoesAcoustics Yes i think Barco get the improved blacks with Dyna black. Its not native at all. So when Christie does it, I expect it to be better. I have demoed m4k25 twice now and it was very good. At no point did i think to myself I wish it had better blacks.
@@MW-ii5nb my experience with these features in the past hasn’t been positive. I am being assured by Barco and Christie that the new features they are developing are different. We shall see. I remain skeptical. But I will go into it with an open mind.
@@PoesAcoustics I may be wrong but I think these new versions maybe adaptations of a dynamic tone mapping algorithm working with the light engine and the past ones maybe more static or less intelligent.
@ you may be right. They have shared next to nothing with me. I am hoping to learn more soon. We are discussing a trip to their factory with a tour. I would end up under NDA but it should mean I can share first or early on.
You don't need a calibrator. Just adjust the picture with all of the controls the maker provides you, like you always have since the advent of color TV. You can do it by eye - do not be afraid!
So I had hoped to get the modified lens but that didn’t work out. It was sold before I could review it. This is the standard HC lens. The on/off contrast I am getting is inline with what others are getting. The modified lens from AUAV is doubling this contrast number or better. It’s half or less of the black level. I would love to see that in my own home. Maybe someday.
I been trying to push this for years now. It pains me to see a good $150-200k or more setups which majority of them just go for JVC or SONY etc. They spend good chunk of that budget into room aesthetics when they should be spending into getting these Projectors + Lenses. And if anyone tries to tell me it is for standing out and making a statement I say having the PICTURE QUALITY a cut above others and best audio setup to go with it will make a bigger statement piece than the aesthetics of the room.
@@KING_DRANZER well sure but if I was designing a modest theater on a $200k budget I would spend $65k of it on the projector. It wouldn’t leave enough for the rest. I am doing a refit right now. Budget is $150k. I’ll likely throw in a JVC. That refit only needs a new processor, projector, screen, acoustic redesign, and some speakers upgraded. I can’t do all that and include such an expensive projector.
@@PoesAcoustics Like Even with Really Good Speakers not Pearlisten level but JTR or Ascendo etc HSU or Rythmik Subs. Trinnov or Storm Audio Processor. NAD Amps. Room Acoustic treatment. 2 Rows of Recliners. All that can be had for around $135-140. That is for a good 9.1.6 Setup. Yes $150 seems bit hard for that to fit. I mean we can if we go for something like Denon AVR A1H instead of Trinnov or Storm. That itself should free a lot of budget.
It won't be many years before we can get 4000 nit 150 inch Oled TV for 10K with and power consumption of 100w. And you don't need a dark room. Thanks for the video
Use some logic. That will never happen. Even if you used the most efficient OLED technology with the color purity needed for a modern BT.2020 display, you would need to consume 900 watts just for the tv portion. With today’s actual tv technology for OLED, it’s more like 2500 watts. So we are probably 5+ years away from getting to 900 watts. Who knows if it would even be 100 watts. By that point the technolgy will likely have moved on. Led is more efficient. It’s expected that OLED will remain below 150 lumens per watt for the foreseeable future. Remember. Current displays are nowhere near that.
@@PoesAcoustics Where does the 2500w OLED TV come from? My Lg G4 TV uses an average of 200w. measured at 10% window 1600nit my old Lg E6 from 2016 640nits measured at 10% window uses an average of 180w so it is 3 times more nits same power consumption.
I hear you but i’m sure he’s doing well and for those of us who know already know I don’t think he needs any more business if that’s what you were alluding to
I'm so ready for a massive disruption in the projector market. Brightness is the future. You gotta have decent black floor as well, but it's the brightness that will impress more than anything. It's embarrassing how dim some of these very expensive projectors are. I'm really hoping this new Valerion projector will start a revolution of improvements to single chip DLP projectors that have that technology being a major player. DLP can push high lumens, be very sharp, have excellent color with RGB laser, just gotta get the black floor and contrast improved. It can be done. Look how much better LCD TVs look than 10 years ago. There have to be ways to make this happen.
If you were less technical, the video would be useless. This technicality is why I'm here. Anecdotal: I have a 97" LG OLED. I know what you're talking about
The important question to ask is when/will this level of performance be achievable at 10/15K? If not then a high end cinema will be the only way to experience it. Anyone who spends 80k on a projector alone to watch Spider-Man (or Lucy) needs their head examining. Yes of course the image makes a difference and I’m sure it’s impressive but Matthew, within a week of going back to the JVC you’ll be enjoying the images it produces. Audio memory is not great but visually our memory is even worse. Ha
@@jim586 I understand your feelings but you also need to understand that folks at different wealth levels spend their money differently. For someone with a household income of $50,000 or $100,000 or even $300,000, it can be hard to fathom spending $500,000 on a theater (or more). When your net worth is in the 10’s of millions and your income is significant, $80,000 for a projector is nothing. You make it in a day of work. When they are worth $100’s of millions or billions of dollars, even a half million dollar display is not a big expense. And there folks spend it.
@ Yes of course you’re right. It’s all relative to one’s income. It just has a feeling of vulgarity about it. Having said that there are people who have garages with millions of £/$ worth of cars that they don’t/wont even drive in this crazy world. Great content as always. Cheers
Rgb laser with 100% rec 2020 coverage is nothing special now, since many Chinese projectors like valerion and jmngo can do it at just 2000$. also in movies vast majority of scenes will have below 5-10 % apl scenes, where black levels play much bigger role. so in majority of the movie scenes you would require better black levels than rec 2020 coverage (not many movies have 100% rec 2020 content) . at this price it is should be better than all the jvc and chinese triple laser projectors. only thing which is better is that 12000 lumens brightness.
I dont understand how you guys can call this projector good value. Ford, gm, and chrysler and working their butts off trying to make brand new electric vehicles of today and tomorrows use, and they dont even cost 70k. How can you call the engineering effort that went towards a christie a good value vs. The engineering efforts that go towards an engineering vehicle and it still costs less. Matt, i understand youre smart, and i dont know education background, but this is no way a good value product. This high end projector scene is underengineered and you guys are so use to paying extreme amounts for these products. We need more engineering done and new developments so the price of these can come down to 10k. In my eyes, even sony, jvc and epson are over priced. Barco and chrstie is kind of a joke and spit in the face. Straight getting ripped off. China will put these companies out of business as their single DLP solutions come out at fractions of the cost, like the valerion project.
Engineering isn’t the reason for the high price. Its scale. They don’t make these at the scale needed to commoditize their price. China already makes the parts in these. It didn’t bring them down to $10k and never will.
Talking about a visual subject with nothing but two talking heads for a half hour! You should at least show us a picture of these projectors that you are talking about!
Don’t worry, you were not being “too technical”, we understand it. This is what we want more of. We don’t need more low level info, we want deep dives like this your 30% black level comparison numbers. This is good info to have.
Great video! It's nice to see more reviews of these types of projectors. It looks like DLP might be making a huge comeback, especially with Valerion pushing the limits of the 0.47 chipset and their EBL dimming feature. From what I understand, these projectors are around 2K native resolution and can achieve 13-15K dynamic contrast, with very few downsides according to the feedback so far.
In the video, it’s mentioned that the Christie 4KM15 was set up with 350 nits and a 0.05 nit black level, resulting in roughly a 7000:1 native contrast ratio. What contrast ratio and black floor are you running on your JVC? You mentioned that your JVC performs exceptionally well in terms of contrast, so I would guess it’s over 40K native?
I’m scheduled to demo the new Barco Heimdall+ and Nerthus on the 29th. The Heimdall+ is rated at 6000 lumens, but I’m unsure of its native contrast. It uses Barco's Dynablack dimming, so I’m looking forward to seeing that. It also features the new 0.80" native 4K DLP chip, which I suspect Christie may also be working on.
I’ve already demoed the Christie 4KM15 and was quite impressed. The Barco Freya+ seems slightly sharper, but during moving/movie content, the difference in sharpness was very subtle for me.
Excellent resource, please with people with so much information like this guest i will like to hear them talk more
Very interesting, thank you. A few years ago I was able to spend some time with a 3 DMD DCi Barco bulb projector, and I was blown away by the colors and the fidelity of the image, especially the red was so deep and vibrant.
Great video, its technical but I love it. Thank you very much.
To my understanding, the ISF ranks contrast ratio as the single most important factor in image quality. Listening to you, I got the impression that colour volume trumps contrast ratio when comparing these projectors. I'd love to hear Dwayne comment on this. Is the ISF wrong, or is there a threshold where colour volume trumps contrast ratio?
@@isak6626 I think what you might be hearing in the video is his enthusiasm and appreciation for the brightness plus the color volume however, I’m not sure if it’s this video or another short clip. He does comment that these projectors not having the greatest black levels gets trumped by their amazing contrast.
@hddanman7263 Yes, and that's surprising, given what the ISF says about factors determining image quality. Perhaps the ISF's view is outdated given recent developments in in colour reproduction, or perhaps colour reproduction can trump contrast if the difference is big enough.
@ I think we might be not understanding each other 100% but I think what we’re both saying is that contrast is the most important thing but when you reach a certain level of contrast, it becomes less of the number one thing so if the projector has great contrast good black level then color is going to be the next biggest factor to look at also from the video. I think what he saying, and I’ve come to the conclusion as well is that unless you’re looking at a really dark scene in a movie the black level and contrast doesn’t matter as much because those scenes are one in 100 the rest is displaying colors so what, are you gonna favor spending your money on some thing that does contrast levels once in a while or the majority of what you’re watching which is bright scenes with colors. I hope this clears discussion up a little.
@@hddanman7263 yes, agree.
Much respect to you & DeWayne for dishing out the hard-hitting technical justifications for high brightness projectors. There's no doubt that professional DLPs throw an extremely compelling image for the majority of content, and that leaving the high end of the signal uncompressed (or lightly so) can produce stunning FX.
But I don't think you've given the argument for high-contrast projectors and/or stronger software compression a fair shake. Or that you've documented the downsides of operating a 300+ nit DLP at the same level of depth that you gave to e.g. RGB laser color volume or LCOS (lack of) sharpness.
The issue with raised blacks isn't that 0.05nit is too bright in an absolute sense (though in a suitably high performance room, I'd argue that is also true). It's how the underlying physics that elevated said black floor are effectively compressing ALL of the luma values toward the low end of the signal. The system as a whole simply doesn't have the performance headroom to render shadow details.
(For an audio analogy, consider a speaker that can technically output 110dB SPL max, but upon closer look has lots of compression above 95dB. Saying it "gets loud enough" is true, but doesn't tell you how much the peaks have been distorted en route to your ears. Or how the "native 4K" competitors you compared these wobblers against showed what appeared to be individual pixels, yet completely fell apart when trying to resolve frequency sweeps or tiny text.)
Concretely, this matters when the shadows onscreen are used not just to create a cinematic backdrop, but as central storytelling elements. Think the Deathly Hallows from Harry Potter, or the Long Night in GoT. Such scenes take the black-crush issue from "not quite as dark as I'd prefer" to "I literally can't tell what is happening onscreen". THAT's what people are addressing when they cross-shop higher-contrast displays and/or dial in their preferred tone mapping. Smoothing out the low-end compression over a wider bandwidth (while correcting for misc color shifts & other perceptual quirks) will change the absolute level of shadow details (vs a reference monitor), yes, but I'd argue that they are simply recovering a comparable level of "visibility" that the monitor had instead achieved via raw headroom/fidelity.
On the bright side (heh), this convo did reveal one important data point I'd never seen documented elsewhere: how black floor on these models does not rise linearly with laser level / white level, as it typically does with other projection technologies. Especially important for those of us with Christie envy, but whose small rooms (or desire to minimize heat & noise) don't need 15K+ lumens to put hundreds of nits onscreen.
We definitely need some footage of the projectors in use. Just sitting watching you guys talk about them isn’t enough.
When has Matt ever played a sound clip or given any pictures of live video in his UA-cam videos that’s not what this channel is for. He’s a professional if you want gimmicks there’s tons of theater UA-cam videos for that.
The problem with showing images or videos of the projector is that it won’t show you anything. First, the camera doesn’t have the dynamic range of your eye and won’t accurately pick up the projected image. It could be adjusted to mimic it, but it would be my opinion that it’s similar based on what I see in my uncalibrated displays. My display can’t reproduce what the projector can no can my camera pick it up. Then to round it all off, you would watch it in a display that likely also can’t reproduce what it was putting out. So it wouldn’t really tell you anything.
I did shoot some video of the projectors images. I also shot pics. And when I reviewed them, it was obvious they weren’t accurate or useful.
I May put them into a video, but it would simply be to make a point. The 4K860 could look as good or even better in my camera than the M4K15 depending on the cameras setting. And it made the poor blacks of the M4K860 look good.
I’ve talked for a long time about why the UA-cam audio auditions are a useless waste of time that tell you nothing. I even brought on leading experts who invented accurate technology for doing so (and even their correct method was not fully accurate). But yet it persists and people argue with me. I am sure the same will happen here. But do know, nothing I say if this nature is just my opinion. I tried it, it looked bad. I requested help from experts. Who pointed out the flaws in my approach and the inability to do what I wanted to do. I realized it was a fools errand. And I gave up. If you want to see the quality of this projector you will need to get a demo.
@@hddanman7263HaHa! Gimmicks? I bet you’re really fun at parties…
@@PoesAcousticsTotally understand that. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be different from other UA-camrs. But when other review channels talk about displays they usually show the display in action. Those of us in the hobby KNOW to listen to your words over just watching the video and coming to a conclusion. Audio even more as UA-cam doesn’t do any of the premium audio formats. So there’s no way to give an example of that.
@@Gillietalls the problem is that, in my experience, people do actually allow the viewing experience or sound experience to sway them. Even if it’s false.
There will be some content showing the images and such. But it’s not going to be for review purpose and shouldn’t be used that way.
I like to think I am different from other UA-camrs because of who I am and what I do. I am a leading expert in my field who also happens to have a somewhat popular UA-cam channel. I design expensive ultimate performance theaters, sit on numerous CEDIA committees, am a trainer for CEDIA, and an authority on measurement and acoustics.
This is my favorite video you've done, thank you!
This video was awesome and Dwayne is a freaking Legend i remember him from when the pioneer Kuro 151 plasma was king of the TVs and he was the Top calibrator 💪💪🔥🔥🔥
He did a great job.
This is interesting. I have had 3 JVC projectors now and love them. Back in 09 my first projector was a Benq w6000 on a 125” screen, the image it produced was jaw dropping for the price.
I am fairly certain that projector is the same one in Atlanta Home Theater's Ascendo room I saw a few months back. I am also a JVC person like you, and have the same reaction as you when I saw how freaking bright the image was on 185in screen. Thinking I could shoot that down to 150 would be nuts and I have the ability to put one in a hush room. Let me know how you convince your wife to get one so I can convince mine, that could be a follow up video lol.
Great .. it was time for Christie content, I am somehow alone at AVS forum provided feedback from my 4K25 ...
Love it.
Matt hope to hear more on the cheaper option !
I've been looking forward to this ...thank you
This guy knows his stuff
Interesting stuff 😁
His posts on AVS helped me dial in my Kuro KRP-500M and ZT60. His posts also convinced me to move on to OLED but sometimes I think the Plamas have a more natural looking picture. Based on the price I will have to stick with JVC I think. Crazy that he's pushing higher light output when for years he preached that contrast and color fidelity were king. Guess that's the change from SDR to HDR. Maybe if I win the lottery 😂.
I believe this is right in line with what DeWaynes sees as important. The color fidelity of the pure RGB laser covers 98% of the BT2020 color space.
We also know Christie is working on an equivalent of Barco's Dynablack technology, similar to what valerian vison master uses. This should improve blacks further. But they keep saying it and a year goes by. Lets hope they stick to early next year.
We should also expect a native 4k version with the new smaller chips where we expect a tad better black as well. Barco's new native 4k equivalent do have better blacks but dont go near as bright. 6000k lumens.
I don’t know that is true. The black level of the Barcos natively with no tricks have not measured lower than this that I am aware of.
They also don’t have any tri lasers in this price point. They have one coming. But it’s a single DLP chip. That would be the one to watch. But it’s not here yet.
And yes I have it on hood authority that their new laser dimming feature is coming soon.
@@PoesAcoustics Yes i think Barco get the improved blacks with Dyna black. Its not native at all. So when Christie does it, I expect it to be better. I have demoed m4k25 twice now and it was very good. At no point did i think to myself I wish it had better blacks.
@@MW-ii5nb my experience with these features in the past hasn’t been positive. I am being assured by Barco and Christie that the new features they are developing are different. We shall see. I remain skeptical. But I will go into it with an open mind.
@@PoesAcoustics I may be wrong but I think these new versions maybe adaptations of a dynamic tone mapping algorithm working with the light engine and the past ones maybe more static or less intelligent.
@ you may be right. They have shared next to nothing with me. I am hoping to learn more soon. We are discussing a trip to their factory with a tour. I would end up under NDA but it should mean I can share first or early on.
Can someone provide the contact information for DWayne
Is your guest in the Atlanta area? If not, are there any JVC projector calibrators in the Atlanta Area? Thanks.
DeWayne does calibrations in Atlanta
He can calibrate in Atlanta. He also travels.
You don't need a calibrator. Just adjust the picture with all of the controls the maker provides you, like you always have since the advent of color TV. You can do it by eye - do not be afraid!
Nice video (from an satisfied older model Christie owner) This is with the standard Christie HC lens or a modded 3rd party lens?
So I had hoped to get the modified lens but that didn’t work out. It was sold before I could review it. This is the standard HC lens.
The on/off contrast I am getting is inline with what others are getting. The modified lens from AUAV is doubling this contrast number or better. It’s half or less of the black level. I would love to see that in my own home. Maybe someday.
I been trying to push this for years now. It pains me to see a good $150-200k or more setups which majority of them just go for JVC or SONY etc. They spend good chunk of that budget into room aesthetics when they should be spending into getting these Projectors + Lenses. And if anyone tries to tell me it is for standing out and making a statement I say having the PICTURE QUALITY a cut above others and best audio setup to go with it will make a bigger statement piece than the aesthetics of the room.
@@KING_DRANZER well sure but if I was designing a modest theater on a $200k budget I would spend $65k of it on the projector. It wouldn’t leave enough for the rest.
I am doing a refit right now. Budget is $150k. I’ll likely throw in a JVC. That refit only needs a new processor, projector, screen, acoustic redesign, and some speakers upgraded. I can’t do all that and include such an expensive projector.
@@PoesAcoustics Like Even with Really Good Speakers not Pearlisten level but JTR or Ascendo etc HSU or Rythmik Subs. Trinnov or Storm Audio Processor. NAD Amps. Room Acoustic treatment. 2 Rows of Recliners. All that can be had for around $135-140. That is for a good 9.1.6 Setup.
Yes $150 seems bit hard for that to fit. I mean we can if we go for something like Denon AVR A1H instead of Trinnov or Storm. That itself should free a lot of budget.
It won't be many years before we can get 4000 nit 150 inch Oled TV for 10K with and power consumption of 100w. And you don't need a dark room. Thanks for the video
Use some logic. That will never happen. Even if you used the most efficient OLED technology with the color purity needed for a modern BT.2020 display, you would need to consume 900 watts just for the tv portion. With today’s actual tv technology for OLED, it’s more like 2500 watts. So we are probably 5+ years away from getting to 900 watts. Who knows if it would even be 100 watts. By that point the technolgy will likely have moved on. Led is more efficient. It’s expected that OLED will remain below 150 lumens per watt for the foreseeable future. Remember. Current displays are nowhere near that.
@@PoesAcoustics Where does the 2500w OLED TV come from? My Lg G4 TV uses an average of 200w.
measured at 10% window 1600nit my old Lg E6 from 2016 640nits measured at 10% window uses an average of 180w so it is 3 times more nits same power consumption.
@@casperjensen1769when tv’s get that large they become logistic nightmares and this is why you have video walls.
@@themuvieguy2743 oled screen roll up 10 LBS
Why not putting his name in the title? At least D-Nice if he don't want his real name there, not sure if he's still active at AVS forum
I hear you but i’m sure he’s doing well and for those of us who know already know I don’t think he needs any more business if that’s what you were alluding to
My Epson 3800 is quivering 😂
🤣
I'm so ready for a massive disruption in the projector market. Brightness is the future. You gotta have decent black floor as well, but it's the brightness that will impress more than anything. It's embarrassing how dim some of these very expensive projectors are. I'm really hoping this new Valerion projector will start a revolution of improvements to single chip DLP projectors that have that technology being a major player. DLP can push high lumens, be very sharp, have excellent color with RGB laser, just gotta get the black floor and contrast improved. It can be done. Look how much better LCD TVs look than 10 years ago. There have to be ways to make this happen.
If you were less technical, the video would be useless. This technicality is why I'm here.
Anecdotal: I have a 97" LG OLED. I know what you're talking about
The important question to ask is when/will this level of performance be achievable at 10/15K?
If not then a high end cinema will be the only way to experience it.
Anyone who spends 80k on a projector alone to watch Spider-Man (or Lucy) needs their head examining.
Yes of course the image makes a difference and I’m sure it’s impressive but Matthew, within a week of going back to the JVC you’ll be enjoying the images it produces.
Audio memory is not great but visually our memory is even worse. Ha
@@jim586 I understand your feelings but you also need to understand that folks at different wealth levels spend their money differently. For someone with a household income of $50,000 or $100,000 or even $300,000, it can be hard to fathom spending $500,000 on a theater (or more). When your net worth is in the 10’s of millions and your income is significant, $80,000 for a projector is nothing. You make it in a day of work. When they are worth $100’s of millions or billions of dollars, even a half million dollar display is not a big expense. And there folks spend it.
@ Yes of course you’re right. It’s all relative to one’s income. It just has a feeling of vulgarity about it. Having said that there are people who have garages with millions of £/$ worth of cars that they don’t/wont even drive in this crazy world.
Great content as always.
Cheers
Rgb laser with 100% rec 2020 coverage is nothing special now, since many Chinese projectors like valerion and jmngo can do it at just 2000$. also in movies vast majority of scenes will have below 5-10 % apl scenes, where black levels play much bigger role. so in majority of the movie scenes you would require better black levels than rec 2020 coverage (not many movies have 100% rec 2020 content) . at this price it is should be better than all the jvc and chinese triple laser projectors. only thing which is better is that 12000 lumens brightness.
I dont understand how you guys can call this projector good value.
Ford, gm, and chrysler and working their butts off trying to make brand new electric vehicles of today and tomorrows use, and they dont even cost 70k.
How can you call the engineering effort that went towards a christie a good value vs. The engineering efforts that go towards an engineering vehicle and it still costs less.
Matt, i understand youre smart, and i dont know education background, but this is no way a good value product.
This high end projector scene is underengineered and you guys are so use to paying extreme amounts for these products.
We need more engineering done and new developments so the price of these can come down to 10k.
In my eyes, even sony, jvc and epson are over priced. Barco and chrstie is kind of a joke and spit in the face. Straight getting ripped off.
China will put these companies out of business as their single DLP solutions come out at fractions of the cost, like the valerion project.
Engineering isn’t the reason for the high price. Its scale. They don’t make these at the scale needed to commoditize their price. China already makes the parts in these. It didn’t bring them down to $10k and never will.
lol Christie is owned by a Chinese publicly traded company.
@@themuvieguy2743 I believe it’s. Japanese company. Ushio.
But they do manufacture in both China and Canada.
Talking about a visual subject with nothing but two talking heads for a half hour! You should at least show us a picture of these projectors that you are talking about!
Why what would it convey? It would look like every other projector you’ve seen on UA-cam video