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Hi Erin. I have a small suggestion regarding interpretation of off axis responses. Some speakers, maybe not this one here, have flatter off axis response in the mid highs. Using only normalized polar plot does not show the full story and can lead to wrong recommendation. In one of a precious review you recommended adding side absorption while the EIR and off axis are pretty good. The off axis response doesn't look right in normalized polar plot. In non-normalized polar plot we can see the actual flatness of off axis response. So I think it'll be great if you include non-normalized polar plot as well as the normalized one while you interpreting them in the future.
Hi Erin , as an older audiophile - thanks for reviewing older speakers ! There are many forgotten jewels out there in the used market that deserve to be mentioned. Hope you consider reviewing more of them in the future since some newer speakers fall short....Thanks!! PD- If possible, can you test the Wharfedale 225, I'm interested in them for a smaller room in my house and would like to hear your opinion on them...
I wish I could send you a pair of 50 year old IMF speakers to measure. It would be fun to see how much better speakers are Today in comparison to speakers made in the late 70s/80s . I am willing to bet Dr Fried designs would measure as good or better than a lot of "mid to higher" tier speakers of Today.
Very interested in this. Not everyone wants to buy new gear, it's a major cost savings to buy used especially if they are a few years old, there are some major gems out there that that portion of the market (used gear shoppers) don't get much attention because selling new products is apart of the business.
Infinity is owned by Harman, and one of their main speaker gurus was Dr. Floyd Toole, who did extensive research and blind listening tests with focus groups, and he found that the majority of listeners prefer speakers with a flat frequency response. The entire Primus line was always well received by Stereophile, and JA's measurements were always very good, even on their low priced bookshelf models. Another Harman brand is Revel, which are universally praised by all reviewers.
@DougMen1 I believe you are wholly incorrect. It's Dr. Sean Olive who's working for Harman. His work, in the accompanying link speaks to just the opposite of what you just stated. He was reporting on how Consumer Reports were using only measurements and identifying "flat" or "neutral" speakers as their (CR's) bias. ua-cam.com/video/IEtYH03pfOI/v-deo.html
Those Stereophile reviews were the reason I bought Infinity Primus speakers. Well that and I got them all on closeout really cheap. (Did the same when I bought my Andrew Jones designed Pioneer speaker system that I'm still using.) The Infinity bookshelf speakers I bought, the 150's and (I think) the 263s to use for my other system.
@@greatpix I bought a pair of 153's in 2013 and I wish I had gotten that series earlier, they are fantastic speakers. It still blew me away the fullness of range those things possessed that I found it hard to match in many other speakers. If I didn't have competent floorstanders for my fronts they would be that, or the rears, but now they're serving as atmos height speakers and they're a joy to hear above me, it really does make a huge difference. But on another note I was tricked into buying the center speaker version of the 3xx series and boy howdy what a hunk of junk that thing was, better to just have bought another single p15X that would have done the same amount of work for half the cost.
I appreciate how you still explain your reasoning and measurements and what matters, even though you've definitely gone over it dozens of times before.
I still can't believe you reviewed a set of speakers I own! I've always been very happy with these towers. I used them primarily with my Yamaha AX-700U amplifier. No loudness control on, no EQ and just the on board bass & treble turned up about half way. I listen to everything from classic rock, heavy metal, 90's rap, drum & bass and even a little bit of jazz and classical. These Infinitys are one of the few speakers ive ever owned that seem to sound good with all of these genres. Thank you so much for reviewing these speakers. Its so cool to the technical data on them and your opinion too. Very, very much appreciated this video my friend 🍻👍👍
I had these with the matching center, 32" RCA crt TV, velodyne SMS-1 and a DIY bill fitzmaurice Tuba HT sub. That seems like a lifetime ago. Thank you for making me feel like the old guy that i am.
I had a similar system I got from Circuit City, but with the Infinity Interlude speaker line. 5.1 system with towers. I still use the speakers daily, but amplification has since been upgraded many times over
Man, I would love to see more videos of older speaker designs vs what we have today. I think you’re on to something here. I think your subjective opinion and the data would be really cool to see. As I always want the new best thing that I can’t afford but I think there is a lot of older designed speakers that are much more affordable and available. Such as Advent, JBL, Infinity, KLH, DCM, Paradigm and Mission just to name a few. Sadly, I’m sure a lot of them just end up in landfills. Hope some people around your area reach out to you with some babied classic boxes ! Thanks Again for taking the time to do all of these measurements and give your honest take on everything.
I’ve mentioned this before. The one caveat of doing so is the degradation of parts but even then I think it would make for some interesting video content as vintage audio has been VERY popular for a good while now.
@@supersportimpalass I totally understand that angle. I do feel like there are still a lot of people who re cap and re-foam (when needed) vintage speakers to keep them in tip top shape or even improve upon the sound. I’m personally just getting my feet wet in this area with some advent 1’s and also building the HIvi 3.1A’s.
Hi Erin, Thank you for looking at this older speaker. I loved Infinity's 1980s and 90s speaker models, so remember when these came out in the early 2000's. I always had thought these were likely just cheaper branding from Infinity to fit the Circuit City crowds. I'm glad I was wrong. Well done sir!
I got the P363 towers, 4x P163 bookshelves, and PC351 center during a Fry's clear out sale back in 2015/16 all for ~$1000. I still can't justify changing them for anything else.
I had the P363 as the mains in my HT system and replaced them with the JBL Studio 580s...a nice improvement. I replaced the 580s with the JBL HDI 3600s...wow!
You can get high-end speakers from 20 years ago very cheaply. Twenty years ago is not that long ago vs the performance. Now if you go back 45 years, there were a lot of garbage speakers designed by amateur ears only.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Some 20 year old speakers that are in great shape are easily worth buying used at a good price and updating the crossover components .
Yamaha, Diatone, Infinity, Ohm, KEF, AR, Boston, Wharfdale... The 80s have some outstanding speakers that hold their value much better than early 2000s speakers.
This speaker was designed and built by Harman International Industries, that used extensive double blind testing and leveraged the research documented by Floyd E. Toole that he published in his excellent book "Sound Reproduction Loudspeakers and Rooms". Another great bargain speaker from this design house is the LSR-32 and LSR-6332 studio monitor. These can be had for around $500 each as they come out of recording studios. They often need a new tweeter which is still available from JBL Pro. Erin finding the gold even when on vacation!
The JBL Studio series from this time (from Harman too) are really good too. I picked up a pair of JBL Studio 180s - I always thought they would be bright, but I really like them - balanced, coherent, but not sterile or analytical.
Yeah I had jBLs that look similar. They rocked. Was just ok with my cheap AVR then I got a pioneer elite. Was like entirely new speakers. They came to life with the extra power
@@jamesbennett1634 you are correct. From memory they had somewhat of a v curve, but perfect for a Kid in his early 20s. lol. Got them on sale for 50-60% off. My sony AVR burned out so I got store credit at BB. Got those JBLs and a Yamy servo sub with dual 8s. Wish I had that sub now. It wasn’t loud enough for me to appreciate it then. But 💯 fast and musical. Would fit my rig perfectly now. lol
Wow! Awesome speakers and review! My takeaway is that, as consumers, we should not accept badly designed speakers. The technology and know how have been out for decades!
Many would argue we’ve gone backwards in terms of producing natural sounding speakers. Realism is hard to capture with a measurement, it’s why this hobby is so much fun and there isn’t just one speaker for everyone. Two flat measuring speakers with different style and material drivers won’t sound the same.
@@tylerhackman6832 I'd be very interested to ABX test two different speakers that measure the same (same spinorama) to see if we hear a difference... I think I wouldn't be able tell a difference.
Awesome! This is where people can actually learn something! I once chatted with a reviewer who said, and I am paraphrasing, "I understand we could build a kit speaker that crushes a similarly priced product, but if I highlight this point I will become estranged from all the manufacturers who would send me stuff, so I have to say No...". On the other end of the spectrum, Erin is a freaking honey badger reviewing something 20 yrs old just as a learning experience! Keep up the good work!
My first pair of legitimate speakers were Infinity Alpha 50's. I haven't had them connected to an amp for awhile and this video reminds me to do something about that.
Yeah, I've got some Alpha 40's I haven't listened to in a very long time. Thinking the same----compare to my Focal Aria's and not as old Rocket 850 Sigs.
Wow I can't believe you reviewed this.... I now own the P363 which is three models newer, wish I could send them to you to make a comparison on the changes they made if any over the years.... I find these speakers to be stunningly good for the price and my friends keep asking me why are they so good,.... They all noticed the midrange.... I listen to them about 12° off axis and they are very consistent from seat to seat.... Stereophile, Audioholics and Absolute Sound had raving reviews for them.... Fun Fact, Andrew Jones was at Infinity, at the time when this line was developed and it's believed he and Floyd Toole had a hand in the Primus line. They are simply brilliant
Those old CMMD drivers were great. Had some Infinity IL60’s with them and they were great bang for the buck speakers. Not up to the level of my current IRS Epsilons but for the money, they were hard to beat.
One of the things that I recently realized that was interesting about my old Interlude 50 towers is that the front baffle tapers in (narrows) as you move up from the mid/woofer towards the tweeter. For the longest time I just thought it was an aesthetic decision, but in the last couple years learning about the theory of speaker design here and a few other places around the 'net made me realize it was probably an intentional engineering decision!
I’m more of a “these speakers sound bright but punchy or they have a big soundstage or something along those lines” kind of reviews fan. Outside the graphics and ultra objective measurements but this was really informative. No answer to the original question of why they stopped making them though. Thanks for the video.
Would like to see some of the older classics that were innovative and well regarded for their time that have held up. My current daily drivers the are Kef 104/2's and ADS L710's, powered by the Yamaha A-S1100.
Thanks for the review. Glad to see older speakers still sound good. I loved my old speakers. They just dried out over time and the trim on the cones rotted and some of the cones puckered. My Cerwin Vegas gave it their all for many years. I bought new speakers and Hope my kids are using them someday. Good luck with your sweetie. Rock on!
The Infinity of the 90s was absolutely incredible. Kappa 7.1 was a favorite. I still have the IL40. Great sounding speakers. Harman should have done more with the brand.
I had a pair of Primus bookshelf speakers from this series. Our company was owned by Harman Kardon at the time and we got a killer deal on all the HK brands. I think I got them for $45 for the pair? I gave them to my brother. Hopefully, they're still in use!
Pretty neat change up for a speaker review Erin. I like the value proposition this approach could add to the channel. Measuring and identifying some of the older and “vintage” speakers that are out there that may be “sleepers” for people to find or pick-up used is a genuinely pretty smart way to (maybe) more affordably participate in the hobby. It also fits well with the education component you so wonderfully integrate into your videos, showing that not everything that sounds and /or measures good has to be the latest/greatest new and shiny. 👊🏼👍🏼
It's only affordable for the people that pick them up before they're "found" by the masses. Once older speakers are known for being good, certain people will buy to horde and flip. I'd love him to measure some Paradigms but as an Australian I'd hate for them to become harder for me to purchase not to mention more expensive if they're found to actually be really good.
Hi Erin, I believe in a idea that’s not spoken off. Isolate in and outside, stiff frame, funiture cloth wrapping: sounds better from the start for every room/ situation. Source isolate, less unwanted sound. Greets Michael (Z-Laser-Audio)
These were modest drivers, modest cabinet ... but exemplary design. Weren't these sone of the first generation of JBL/Infinity designed, voiced, utilizing double blind loudspeaker shuffler? Simply a solid design, using modest materials.
The name sounded familiar so I went out to the garage/workshop and looked at a pair of bookshelf speakers I bought 15 years ago at a pawn shop for $70. They're Infinity Primus 150s. Same series! These little things punch way above their weight! Also, proof I have too many sets of speakers because I'm not sure exactly what I have.
Awesome video. I think many people would agree that Infinity has made some good "budget" speakers in the past. I even think Sean Olive did work for them for a while. I recently pulled a pair of the Infinity IL40's out of my storage room to list for sale...gave them a listen 1st & I was like wow. Kept at a reasonable volume all the information was there & enjoyable. It has ceramic/metal tweeters. I listed it for $90 bucks & it was gone within a couple hours. I always felt the older Kappa, IRS, RS1 speakers were cool. Most out of my price range & amplifier quality though. I'd like to see the measurements on the 35lb Infinity IL36c center channel. The RC263 center was pretty decent too.
Awesome review as always! we definitely like to see you measuring old speaker like this one. I find speakers made between mid 90s and 2010 have more neutral sound especially less exaggerating bass in the 50hz to 100hz region. I think the reason is that modern speakers are having smaller woofers to fit in a smaller boxes and that has its own limitations and trade offs, therefore designers are intentionally boosting that higher bass region 50hz to 100hz so speakers will seem to sound more powerful. Myself I'm still enjoying my all time favorite JBL ti10k, 4 way Design that was made in 1999, very neutral, and extremely capable of playing as loud as your ears can handle without breaking a sweat or sounding harsh.
I have a pair of the Infinity Primus P152 bookshelves I picked up for $65. They look like they were packed into a box for 20 years. Absolutely mint. Pretty blown away by how good they sound, especially after a full crossover rebuild with poly caps, air core inductors, ect. Thanks to your review I can confirm that my ears are not clouded by nostalgia, that they truly are good speakers, and I would still consider them as an entry into hifi even considering their age and price point for the time. Thanks again for another great review!
For one reason or another, I've gravitated towards Infinity speakers that are in the 20-25 year old range, as the ones I don't like are few and far between. They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they perform pretty well without emptying your bank account. I wish Harman (Samsung) would do something with the line for home audio again.
SO excited for this video. I’ve been a huge fan of Infinity speakers from this era since about 2005 when I got my first pair. I still have them, along with another 5 pairs! I’m about to buy another set this week. This video pretty much sums up and confirms everything I’ve thought for almost 20 years now.
Wow, some of those Infinity speakers around those years did indeed sound very good. In Europe around 20 years ago Tannoy & Wharfedale went head to head in battle in budget class speakers. This era gave birth to some fascinating speakers that are still very widely in use in Europe: Tannoy F1/F2, older Tannoy Reveal speakers, Wharfedale 9.1, Wharfedale 10.1 (also Bronze BR2/BX2 from Monitor Audio belong in this category btw). It would be nice to see some Klippel or anechoid measurements and so on understand how these speakers still have such a firm foothold.
I sold a ton of the Primus and Beta series Infinity speakers back in college working at Circuit City from that time frame. Use to have a full 7.1 series of Infinities back then. Sold most all of them and upgraded to Revel. I got hooked on that neutral Harman sound. I wish I still had those Beta 20 bookshelf speakers, I would have lent them to you to test out. I've always thought that an audiophile on a budget, it's in their best interest to look at getting a well owned, taken care of set of Infinities from this era. I honestly miss the Kappa Perfect 6.1s I had in my car from then the most, those speakers were a great deal with our employee discount. Keep up the great work Erin!
Erin, thanks for doing this review. I bought two sets of Infinity Primus bookshelf speakers and woofer many years ago, and picked them up new, on closeout really cheap. I still use them in my 2nd system in my den and I still like them a lot. Lately I've been curious how well the design holds up to modern speakers so I LOVED this review and I'm glad they did so well. If you ever get the chance to review either Electro Research (John Iverson's company), Qysonic or Lantana (built by my best friend but also got good reviews in the hifi mags), or Spica TC-50 speakers, all of which I've owned in the far past, I'd love to know how they stand up. I sold the Electro Research 320s to a friend probably around the time you were born and he's still using them when he has a backyard BBQ. I still own the Spicas and the heavy iron speaker stands designed for them but that work for any bookshelf speaker. Sadly my speaker building friend, Mark Merlino, passed away earlier this year but I still come across fans who owned them and are still using them or remember them as sounding great. They hold two design patents, one that prevents speakers with ports from 'farting'. Anyways, the occasional review of some past speakers, especially ones with some design differences, like this one I listened to at a dealer showroom that was a box with a bunch of speakers of different sizes and facing different directions. Can't remember the name though. There are the electrostatic speakers, you'd ever find a pair but John Iverson was working on a speaker that used a plasma element. Supposedly it was capable of knocking you across the room if you touched the plasma stream. Thanks again, Erin!
@@tylerhackman6832 I just found a pair new in box sitting in some guy’s garage for 300$. Gonna go buy them assuming they haven’t rotted in the boxes. Lol
Nice! I have these speakers and still have them in active use. I also have the center channel and the subwoofer. I never picked up the bookshelf and kick myself for not doing so. I picked these up circa 2004/5. I got mine for 170 each, so I guess I did good at the time.
These are the speakers I own. Bought about 6 years ago off Craigslist for about $100 for the pair. They were barely used. Are you telling me that in order to gain an obvious and significant upgrade to these, I'm going to have to spend multi-thousand dollars to find something worthy? Doesnt surprise me because they sound phenomenal. I cant believe how good of a deal I found. I have them in my dedicated theater, but I also use them for 2-channel music listening. I have embarked on a quest to find enough Infinity Primus bookshelf speakers to completely fill out a 7.4.6 Dolby Atmos system. I have been pleasantly surprised how easy these speakers have been to find. But not after this review goes viral. Gee, thanks Erin. These are suddenly going to become rare. I still need to buy a pair of P160s for my rear surrounds and 2 pair of P140s for my height channels. Oh by the way.......I also settled on pulling them out about 18" from the wall and with about 15° of Toe-in........about 3 to 4 years ago. 😂
Thanks for this review, Erin. I just found a pair of 362s locally for $150. The crossover PCB says "primus 360" so I imagine these perform very close to the 360s. I agree they sound a tiny bit hot up top but otherwise a great speaker - especially for the money. Going to look for more of these to buy.
Time to do the Alpha50 and I have a pair 😁... My college house parties were some of the loudest, bass heavy parties thanks to these and some velodyne subs. I use to work for an AV Integrator and they always made fun of me for the Alpha50, but it didnt have $5k for Monitor Silver Towers or Genelec's. The Alpha50 were very power hungry, one day I got my hands on a two channel Rotel amp from work and they came to life compared to my Marantz 7003. I am now relegated to KEF inwalls by the wife - which honestly work better in my space anyway and sounds pretty good for what they are (The poor Alpha's just sit in the corner in my office now). Great and fun review Erin
im glad you did this review it means alot to those who thing you have to have the latest and greatest im an audiophile for many years here in Toronto Canada been to some audio shows at the KING EDWARD hotel and back then early 80s this thing happened at one of the shows someone put up a black curtain and used vintage audio gear behind it more people gravitated towards that sound than any other i have many canadian made audio gear oracle turntable speakers amps from bryston ETC but still have others from around the world kef 101s the first speakers in the world designed by a computer they still sound great i kid you not and heres the secret to maintain a great sounding gear/speakers never allow sunshine in the room it destroys speakers especially
Those speakers are what I use for my side and back surrounds. I picked up the 5.1 setup of the 4-primus 360 speakers, 8" Primus PS-8 Subwoofer and Primus PC350BK Center channels for $80CAD.
So glad Infinity is being upheld as King! last November, I scoured the locals for 7 Infinity speakers. I got the BETA, a even more refined version of Primus and the R162s. Except for the R series, I had to replace all of the tweeters and solder all the new capacitors, on 5 speakers and also my older C250. I'm surprised that you didn't have to do any of this? The measurements before and after were hugely different. I love the neutral, detailed sound! Great review you have :)
Great review, I agree with this great review. One speaker I owned back in the day was ADS L810. I thought these were some of the best sounding speakers ever. Would love to see you get your hands on a pair of these.
I remember when I started getting interested in car audio during the late 80's to early 90's ADS was known for their great-sounding component speakers. I never had the pleasure of hearing them but it wasn't uncommon to see them in featured vehicles in the mags.
@@hondaphan4172 yes they went away from home audio in the late 80s sad because the really built great speakers. I got to listen to some of their car audio when I was looking for system for a Trans Am. They were good don't get me wrong but, I went with Diamond Audio which in my opinion is some of the best you can get. I love their systems. I think this was around 97 or 98ish when I purchased this system.
Such a great review, thank you so much! In my opinion, the fact that it is "merely academic" as you say gives it an added value, the kern relies in fundamental concepts of speaker design - in other words: I consider EAC to be special precisely because sth like this does have a place in this channel
i've been using their newer siblings, Revel Concerta2 series (F35 and M16) with a Concerta center for a while now. There's better speakers for sure but just haven't found anything so spectacularly better that i'm willing to spend the money on. It would probably be a set of KEF R Meta's if i ever did pull the trigger.
That's a really good speaker. If they located the bass drivers near the floor (to prevent floor bounce) it would a great speaker. Trouble is that would make the front grille much more expensive. Do you have a list of older inexpensive speakers worth investigating?
Got S312's and S38's around '02. Still love them, had to refoam a woofer on the 12's and a mid died on a S38, but they still rock! Very similar to the Primus, is my understanding. Not my primaries anymore though.
I own 7 pairs of infinity primus P163. 5 pairs remain unopened. 14 speakers for 390 dollars. I also have infinity classia c336 fronts (200 dollars per speaker). They have upgraded tweeter and crossover compared to primus and the cabinet are sturdier with better lacquer and bracing than 3000 speakers today. I am not exaggerating. The two qualities of primus/classia speakers that remain superior to newer low-cost speakers are: 1 the construction of the cabinets, which are solid. 2. Durability. The CMMD woofer material and cone assembly are very stiff and durable. Meaning these speakers last a long time without deterioration. They also don't add unwanted resonance. I have compared these speakers to many newer speakers. One area where they are superior to other mid cost speakers is when you give them some power and get after it. Where other modest speakers are starting to fly apart and emit nasty resonance sounds these speakers hold on and dont distort very much. I also mod the ports. To make the classia really sound good in low end and I bi wire and use 150 wpc. My infinity set up is in Florida 40 meters from salty ocean. Just this year I purchased JBL HDI-3800 set up for my home. This system is a refinement of Infinity cmd technology with horn tweeters. It does sound better then classia but it cost alot more. People are often attracted to speakers having alluring names like mozarts totem pole rain makers. I have always used Infinity for home and car and put the money into ATI or fosgate amplifiers.
@@r2d3vadar92 I have Jamo Concert 11s that I did some light restoration to. I picked them up for 500$(which is a steal just for empty cabinets of this quality), and had to replace the midrange drivers and ferro fluid in the tweeters. They are SEAS excel tweeter/mids, and Jamo branded bass driver, made in Denmark with quartz composite baffles. Absolute units. I had to pay almost as much for the replacement drivers as I did for the speakers. Lol
@@r2d3vadar92 Mine are Jamo Concert 11s. Made in in Denmark with Quartz composite baffles and SEAS Excel drivers. Absolute units of acoustic engineering. I stole them for 500$ with blown midrange drivers, and cost me less than a grand fully restored. I had Polk LSIM monitors before, and despite them being excellent, these are levels above in detail and dynamic range at volume.
Thanks Erin, not much changed in speakers as far as technology, materials speaker companies use yes... don't be afraid to buy other speakers if they are in good shape!!
please do more reviews of old speakers. I would love to see reviews of the Infinity interlude speaker family. I would send them to you but im in eastern Canada 🤷🏻♂️
Very interesting, I gave up on buying commercial speakers . So I started learning and teaching myself from books and u tube how to design speakers. I started with cheaper drivers then I wanted it certain sound and designed a speaker with my preferred sound signature. I'm very happy with the look and sound of them. There's actually a photo on my profile.
What is everyone's opinion on the mid 1970's Dahl Quist DQ10's? I acquired a very nice set of DQ-10's about 12 years ago for free. My former boss was going to throw them out because they were old and the surrounds on the woofers were gone. I adopted them, put new surrounds on, new caps and resistors on the crossovers and replaced all wires from the crossovers to the driver's with silver wires. I have Spendors, Michael Green Rev 6's and personally, I think the DQ 10's sound better than my other speakers. I'd love to hear what others think, that have had or still have a pair of Dahl Quist DQ-10's.
I had a pair from this line that I gave to grandma. I had a pair from the line up that I gave to someone at work. Infinity made some great stuff 20 years ago.
infinity made great speakers , amd way ahead of his time relative to technologie , the kappa .2 series for example, the kappa 7.2i was a tremendous good one, i suspect to buy such a speaker today , would cost a lot of dosh
I remember lusting after the speakers in sound and vision magazine. I was planning to make them a part of my first true home theater set up but time got away, and they were no longer available on the retail market.
Great review Erin, I owned these speakers 15 years ago, and your right they are fantastic, i kept them until the RBH R55TI's Tower's became a real monster in the sub 1000 market back in 2013, they were a slight step up over the infinity's top to bottom and looked much better also..... That said 3 years later the Fluance signature series towers debuted in jan 2016 and IMO they blew both the infinity's and RBH's out of the water, build quality sound and looks wise. They are still avaliable today, at only 800 bucks. That said I would really like to see a review of the Fluance signature series tower speakers(from you)...they are a bit long in the tooth (they predate most major av channels), but does not seem to have a successor on the horizon. I would say it is for sure one of the best speakers i have heard under 5000 bucks. I have gone out and listened to many great speakers under 10k(sonus faber sonetto 8, GE triton1) and see no reason to upgrade. I would be willing to bet they crack your top 5 despite being less than 1000 bucks. Please consider reviewing these, I know your busy man, keep up the good work.
Infinity RS-4.5 were my favorite speakers of all time. Owned two pair of them along with pairs of 2000A, RS II-A, RS-1, Kappa 8 and a pair of lower end poly-cell bookshelf speakers. To my ear the RS 4.5s had the best balance of speed, accuracy, 3-D realism and dynamic power.
Speakers are the one thing in this hobby that ages well. Beyond element foam edges ^^. Electronics has become more advanced and better but not really speakers (beyond new tweeter technology et.al.)
Thanks for sharing this information with us on these speakers and I hope you will share more about vintage speakers. I have both new and vintage speakers and I have found that I prefer the older ones. I am a vintage DCM speaker lover that is for the speakers that were before mtx bought them and they were designed by Steve and they are the time window and time frame also the CX series which I own. I have enjoyed your videos more so because you are very informative and straightforward so thank you for your honesty keep up the awesome work.
Thanks for reviewing these it's nice to see when old school kit outperforms the new norm. Personally I like a number of old-school brands like the sony-es series etc brings in a bit of nostalgia and a reaffirmation that we used to make things better 😊
Growing up in the 70's I listened to an old AM radio with an elongated woofer inside and dangly wires hand-soldered to vacuum tubes. It used to take a minute to start. The sound was gorgeous though. My current B&W rig reminds me of that sound when I play the same (old) music. Always makes me wonder how I got such great sound from that old gear - or was it my childhood hearing was so much better that I was fully immersed in the music! Then came an onslaught of small "transistor radios" and the world became obsessed with how clunky the old devices were and how sleek their new incarnations were, forgetting sound quality in the debate. SMH
Excellent review as always - thanks for what you do. I've found a few Primus pieces at thrift shops. Personally I always found the looks a bit cheap (I prefer something like NHT's glossy black or Snell's black ash veneers). The performance doesn't lie though! They impress where it matters.
Impressive. I owned a pair of Infinities out of this product range when they came out and really liked them. I ended up blowing them up with bass boost lol…I was 15
I have 9 lol in my main system. Nobody gets what a bargain these are. I actually offered to send Erin a pair like a year ago and he wasn't interested but glad he's caught on. I'm picking up some Il60s in a week to see how they compare to my P360/P362/P363
Great vid! I would really love to see more "second hand bargain" reviews. The early 2000s Infinity speakers are great candidates, especially the Primus and Beta series with their waveguides and close driver spacing. The Infinity Primus 250 (2 way floorstander with 2 midwoofers) for example is regularly sold around 50-100€/pair on the german second hand market. Would also be a good thing to do from the sustainability perspective.
Hey thanks for your detailed explanations, glad I found your channel. I was wondering if there is a reason why the 360 horizontal contour plot is not visualised in a circle. I think it might help making it easier to visualize in real life. Although reading the graph is fine too :)
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Hi Erin. I have a small suggestion regarding interpretation of off axis responses.
Some speakers, maybe not this one here, have flatter off axis response in the mid highs. Using only normalized polar plot does not show the full story and can lead to wrong recommendation.
In one of a precious review you recommended adding side absorption while the EIR and off axis are pretty good. The off axis response doesn't look right in normalized polar plot. In non-normalized polar plot we can see the actual flatness of off axis response.
So I think it'll be great if you include non-normalized polar plot as well as the normalized one while you interpreting them in the future.
@@johnyang799I’ll consider it. Thanks!
Hi Erin , as an older audiophile - thanks for reviewing older speakers ! There are many forgotten jewels out there in the used market that deserve to be mentioned. Hope you consider reviewing more of them in the future since some newer speakers fall short....Thanks!! PD- If possible, can you test the Wharfedale 225, I'm interested in them for a smaller room in my house and would like to hear your opinion on them...
I wish I could send you a pair of 50 year old IMF speakers to measure. It would be fun to see how much better speakers are Today in comparison to speakers made in the late 70s/80s . I am willing to bet Dr Fried designs would measure as good or better than a lot of "mid to higher" tier speakers of Today.
Very interested in this. Not everyone wants to buy new gear, it's a major cost savings to buy used especially if they are a few years old, there are some major gems out there that that portion of the market (used gear shoppers) don't get much attention because selling new products is apart of the business.
Infinity is owned by Harman, and one of their main speaker gurus was Dr. Floyd Toole, who did extensive research and blind listening tests with focus groups, and he found that the majority of listeners prefer speakers with a flat frequency response. The entire Primus line was always well received by Stereophile, and JA's measurements were always very good, even on their low priced bookshelf models. Another Harman brand is Revel, which are universally praised by all reviewers.
@DougMen1 I believe you are wholly incorrect. It's Dr. Sean Olive who's working for Harman. His work, in the accompanying link speaks to just the opposite of what you just stated. He was reporting on how Consumer Reports were using only measurements and identifying "flat" or "neutral" speakers as their (CR's) bias.
ua-cam.com/video/IEtYH03pfOI/v-deo.html
Those Stereophile reviews were the reason I bought Infinity Primus speakers. Well that and I got them all on closeout really cheap. (Did the same when I bought my Andrew Jones designed Pioneer speaker system that I'm still using.) The Infinity bookshelf speakers I bought, the 150's and (I think) the 263s to use for my other system.
@@greatpix I bought a pair of 153's in 2013 and I wish I had gotten that series earlier, they are fantastic speakers. It still blew me away the fullness of range those things possessed that I found it hard to match in many other speakers. If I didn't have competent floorstanders for my fronts they would be that, or the rears, but now they're serving as atmos height speakers and they're a joy to hear above me, it really does make a huge difference.
But on another note I was tricked into buying the center speaker version of the 3xx series and boy howdy what a hunk of junk that thing was, better to just have bought another single p15X that would have done the same amount of work for half the cost.
I appreciate how you still explain your reasoning and measurements and what matters, even though you've definitely gone over it dozens of times before.
He could be a drinking game 😊
You never know when a new viewer (me) arrives.
I still can't believe you reviewed a set of speakers I own! I've always been very happy with these towers. I used them primarily with my Yamaha AX-700U amplifier. No loudness control on, no EQ and just the on board bass & treble turned up about half way. I listen to everything from classic rock, heavy metal, 90's rap, drum & bass and even a little bit of jazz and classical. These Infinitys are one of the few speakers ive ever owned that seem to sound good with all of these genres.
Thank you so much for reviewing these speakers. Its so cool to the technical data on them and your opinion too. Very, very much appreciated this video my friend 🍻👍👍
Reviewing older speakers is pretty awesome Erin! Great to see what the past had so we can hold the future accountable!
I had these with the matching center, 32" RCA crt TV, velodyne SMS-1 and a DIY bill fitzmaurice Tuba HT sub. That seems like a lifetime ago. Thank you for making me feel like the old guy that i am.
Hey man, I was thinking about this video and how when the speakers came out I was still in college. Makes me feel old.
I had a similar system I got from Circuit City, but with the Infinity Interlude speaker line. 5.1 system with towers. I still use the speakers daily, but amplification has since been upgraded many times over
If you're 21, these speakers are old; the further you are past 40, the less old they actually become lol
Yes, 2005 was like last week. Lol
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt
Right?
I gave a pair of these to my son many years ago because I'm a nice dad......I want them back
😂
Fight!
See if you can find a restored pair of Kappa 9.2 Series II so you can make him envious instead.
Man, I would love to see more videos of older speaker designs vs what we have today. I think you’re on to something here. I think your subjective opinion and the data would be really cool to see. As I always want the new best thing that I can’t afford but I think there is a lot of older designed speakers that are much more affordable and available. Such as Advent, JBL, Infinity, KLH, DCM, Paradigm and Mission just to name a few. Sadly, I’m sure a lot of them just end up in landfills. Hope some people around your area reach out to you with some babied classic boxes ! Thanks Again for taking the time to do all of these measurements and give your honest take on everything.
I’ve mentioned this before. The one caveat of doing so is the degradation of parts but even then I think it would make for some interesting video content as vintage audio has been VERY popular for a good while now.
And Boston Acoustics and Energy
@@supersportimpalass I totally understand that angle. I do feel like there are still a lot of people who re cap and re-foam (when needed) vintage speakers to keep them in tip top shape or even improve upon the sound. I’m personally just getting my feet wet in this area with some advent 1’s and also building the HIvi 3.1A’s.
@@seanohara1608 I have some small energy bookshelf speakers. Canada right ?
Hi Erin, Thank you for looking at this older speaker. I loved Infinity's 1980s and 90s speaker models, so remember when these came out in the early 2000's. I always had thought these were likely just cheaper branding from Infinity to fit the Circuit City crowds. I'm glad I was wrong. Well done sir!
I got the P363 towers, 4x P163 bookshelves, and PC351 center during a Fry's clear out sale back in 2015/16 all for ~$1000. I still can't justify changing them for anything else.
Nor does it look like you should
I had the P363 as the mains in my HT system and replaced them with the JBL Studio 580s...a nice improvement.
I replaced the 580s with the JBL HDI 3600s...wow!
Pretty cool to verify that affordable speakers 20 yrs ago got it done!
Only young people don't realize there was life before they were born!!😂😂
You can get high-end speakers from 20 years ago very cheaply. Twenty years ago is not that long ago vs the performance. Now if you go back 45 years, there were a lot of garbage speakers designed by amateur ears only.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Some 20 year old speakers that are in great shape are easily worth buying used at a good price and updating the crossover components .
Yamaha, Diatone, Infinity, Ohm, KEF, AR, Boston, Wharfdale... The 80s have some outstanding speakers that hold their value much better than early 2000s speakers.
And these were the entry level line from Infinity. I remember the bookshelf model from my old hi-fi magazines I used to buy.
I don't understand why Infinity just dropped off the map. They made such superb speakers 30-40 years ago
@@harbirnain they were making speakers just a few years ago. And its not like Harman went anywhere. They are backed up by Samsung dollars.
They've turned the brand into a lifestyle brand 😢
@@Prerich45 boo!
@@FURognar yeah... that's what I said too.🥺
I believe that Harmon decided to make Infinity a car audio company.
This speaker was designed and built by Harman International Industries, that used extensive double blind testing and leveraged the research documented by Floyd E. Toole that he published in his excellent book "Sound Reproduction Loudspeakers and Rooms". Another great bargain speaker from this design house is the LSR-32 and LSR-6332 studio monitor. These can be had for around $500 each as they come out of recording studios. They often need a new tweeter which is still available from JBL Pro. Erin finding the gold even when on vacation!
The JBL Studio series from this time (from Harman too) are really good too. I picked up a pair of JBL Studio 180s - I always thought they would be bright, but I really like them - balanced, coherent, but not sterile or analytical.
Yeah I had jBLs that look similar. They rocked. Was just ok with my cheap AVR then I got a pioneer elite. Was like entirely new speakers. They came to life with the extra power
@@jamesbennett1634 you are correct. From memory they had somewhat of a v curve, but perfect for a Kid in his early 20s. lol. Got them on sale for 50-60% off. My sony AVR burned out so I got store credit at BB. Got those JBLs and a Yamy servo sub with dual 8s.
Wish I had that sub now. It wasn’t loud enough for me to appreciate it then. But 💯 fast and musical. Would fit my rig perfectly now. lol
Cool information, how do you happen to know this?
Danny from GR-Research measured the LSR-6332 and they didn't measure that good
Two companies that no longer exist, but made great speakers were Infinity and Boston Acoustics. Wish they were still around.
Infinity is still around
Also Energy
Wow! Awesome speakers and review!
My takeaway is that, as consumers, we should not accept badly designed speakers.
The technology and know how have been out for decades!
Unfortunately, we don't know which speakers are well designed until someone measures them. :)
@@status101-danielho6 that's why people like Erin, Amir and Gene are so valuable 😊
Many would argue we’ve gone backwards in terms of producing natural sounding speakers. Realism is hard to capture with a measurement, it’s why this hobby is so much fun and there isn’t just one speaker for everyone. Two flat measuring speakers with different style and material drivers won’t sound the same.
@@tylerhackman6832 I'd be very interested to ABX test two different speakers that measure the same (same spinorama) to see if we hear a difference...
I think I wouldn't be able tell a difference.
Awesome! This is where people can actually learn something! I once chatted with a reviewer who said, and I am paraphrasing, "I understand we could build a kit speaker that crushes a similarly priced product, but if I highlight this point I will become estranged from all the manufacturers who would send me stuff, so I have to say No...". On the other end of the spectrum, Erin is a freaking honey badger reviewing something 20 yrs old just as a learning experience! Keep up the good work!
My first pair of legitimate speakers were Infinity Alpha 50's. I haven't had them connected to an amp for awhile and this video reminds me to do something about that.
Yeah, I've got some Alpha 40's I haven't listened to in a very long time. Thinking the same----compare to my Focal Aria's and not as old Rocket 850 Sigs.
Wow I can't believe you reviewed this.... I now own the P363 which is three models newer, wish I could send them to you to make a comparison on the changes they made if any over the years.... I find these speakers to be stunningly good for the price and my friends keep asking me why are they so good,.... They all noticed the midrange.... I listen to them about 12° off axis and they are very consistent from seat to seat.... Stereophile, Audioholics and Absolute Sound had raving reviews for them.... Fun Fact, Andrew Jones was at Infinity, at the time when this line was developed and it's believed he and Floyd Toole had a hand in the Primus line. They are simply brilliant
I bought a pair of those too. I would like to see what Danny could do with them but I'm not going ship them to him.
Those old CMMD drivers were great. Had some Infinity IL60’s with them and they were great bang for the buck speakers. Not up to the level of my current IRS Epsilons but for the money, they were hard to beat.
One of the things that I recently realized that was interesting about my old Interlude 50 towers is that the front baffle tapers in (narrows) as you move up from the mid/woofer towards the tweeter.
For the longest time I just thought it was an aesthetic decision, but in the last couple years learning about the theory of speaker design here and a few other places around the 'net made me realize it was probably an intentional engineering decision!
I love that you’re just having fun with your channel. Always learn something new with every video.
I had a whole matching set of the infinity beta from that era… did just fine!
I’m more of a “these speakers sound bright but punchy or they have a big soundstage or something along those lines” kind of reviews fan. Outside the graphics and ultra objective measurements but this was really informative. No answer to the original question of why they stopped making them though. Thanks for the video.
Would like to see some of the older classics that were innovative and well regarded for their time that have held up. My current daily drivers the are Kef 104/2's and ADS L710's, powered by the Yamaha A-S1100.
Infinity Kappa car audio stuff was awesome back in the day!
I like the high end Infinity speakers from early 2000s.
absolutely and you could buy them for $1500-2000. Now you can't even buy entry level towers for that money.
"little bit sweet on"
Thanks for the review. Glad to see older speakers still sound good. I loved my old speakers. They just dried out over time and the trim on the cones rotted and some of the cones puckered. My Cerwin Vegas gave it their all for many years. I bought new speakers and Hope my kids are using them someday. Good luck with your sweetie. Rock on!
The Infinity of the 90s was absolutely incredible. Kappa 7.1 was a favorite. I still have the IL40. Great sounding speakers. Harman should have done more with the brand.
The Infinity towers (and bookshelf) with the powered subs in them were pretty interesting too, they had a lot of neat speakers back in the 2000s era.
I had a pair of Primus bookshelf speakers from this series. Our company was owned by Harman Kardon at the time and we got a killer deal on all the HK brands. I think I got them for $45 for the pair? I gave them to my brother. Hopefully, they're still in use!
We need more of this, reviewing older speakers! It is what I spend my free time buying and listening to.
My main speakers, that I'm sitting in front of right now, are 44 years old :D
Pretty neat change up for a speaker review Erin. I like the value proposition this approach could add to the channel.
Measuring and identifying some of the older and “vintage” speakers that are out there that may be “sleepers” for people to find or pick-up used is a genuinely pretty smart way to (maybe) more affordably participate in the hobby.
It also fits well with the education component you so wonderfully integrate into your videos, showing that not everything that sounds and /or measures good has to be the latest/greatest new and shiny. 👊🏼👍🏼
It's only affordable for the people that pick them up before they're "found" by the masses. Once older speakers are known for being good, certain people will buy to horde and flip.
I'd love him to measure some Paradigms but as an Australian I'd hate for them to become harder for me to purchase not to mention more expensive if they're found to actually be really good.
Hi Erin,
I believe in a idea that’s not spoken off. Isolate in and outside, stiff frame, funiture cloth wrapping: sounds better from the start for every room/ situation. Source isolate, less unwanted sound. Greets Michael (Z-Laser-Audio)
These were modest drivers, modest cabinet ... but exemplary design.
Weren't these sone of the first generation of JBL/Infinity designed, voiced, utilizing double blind loudspeaker shuffler?
Simply a solid design, using modest materials.
I think this is a cool idea for a video. I would love to see what the crossover looks like though.
The name sounded familiar so I went out to the garage/workshop and looked at a pair of bookshelf speakers I bought 15 years ago at a pawn shop for $70. They're Infinity Primus 150s. Same series! These little things punch way above their weight! Also, proof I have too many sets of speakers because I'm not sure exactly what I have.
Awesome video. I think many people would agree that Infinity has made some good "budget" speakers in the past. I even think Sean Olive did work for them for a while. I recently pulled a pair of the Infinity IL40's out of my storage room to list for sale...gave them a listen 1st & I was like wow. Kept at a reasonable volume all the information was there & enjoyable. It has ceramic/metal tweeters. I listed it for $90 bucks & it was gone within a couple hours.
I always felt the older Kappa, IRS, RS1 speakers were cool. Most out of my price range & amplifier quality though.
I'd like to see the measurements on the 35lb Infinity IL36c center channel. The RC263 center was pretty decent too.
Awesome review as always! we definitely like to see you measuring old speaker like this one. I find speakers made between mid 90s and 2010 have more neutral sound especially less exaggerating bass in the 50hz to 100hz region. I think the reason is that modern speakers are having smaller woofers to fit in a smaller boxes and that has its own limitations and trade offs, therefore designers are intentionally boosting that higher bass region 50hz to 100hz so speakers will seem to sound more powerful. Myself I'm still enjoying my all time favorite JBL ti10k, 4 way Design that was made in 1999, very neutral, and extremely capable of playing as loud as your ears can handle without breaking a sweat or sounding harsh.
I have a pair of the Infinity Primus P152 bookshelves I picked up for $65. They look like they were packed into a box for 20 years. Absolutely mint. Pretty blown away by how good they sound, especially after a full crossover rebuild with poly caps, air core inductors, ect. Thanks to your review I can confirm that my ears are not clouded by nostalgia, that they truly are good speakers, and I would still consider them as an entry into hifi even considering their age and price point for the time. Thanks again for another great review!
Now you got me digging the secondhand market in my country like a damn dog. FML.
The 363 seem to be pretty much the same speaker.
@@disienna yeah, it seems like the 363 is easier to get than the 360. Have a few selling it for cheap. Wonder how different they are from 360s
For one reason or another, I've gravitated towards Infinity speakers that are in the 20-25 year old range, as the ones I don't like are few and far between. They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they perform pretty well without emptying your bank account. I wish Harman (Samsung) would do something with the line for home audio again.
SO excited for this video. I’ve been a huge fan of Infinity speakers from this era since about 2005 when I got my first pair. I still have them, along with another 5 pairs! I’m about to buy another set this week. This video pretty much sums up and confirms everything I’ve thought for almost 20 years now.
Wow, some of those Infinity speakers around those years did indeed sound very good. In Europe around 20 years ago Tannoy & Wharfedale went head to head in battle in budget class speakers. This era gave birth to some fascinating speakers that are still very widely in use in Europe: Tannoy F1/F2, older Tannoy Reveal speakers, Wharfedale 9.1, Wharfedale 10.1 (also Bronze BR2/BX2 from Monitor Audio belong in this category btw). It would be nice to see some Klippel or anechoid measurements and so on understand how these speakers still have such a firm foothold.
I sold a ton of the Primus and Beta series Infinity speakers back in college working at Circuit City from that time frame. Use to have a full 7.1 series of Infinities back then. Sold most all of them and upgraded to Revel. I got hooked on that neutral Harman sound. I wish I still had those Beta 20 bookshelf speakers, I would have lent them to you to test out. I've always thought that an audiophile on a budget, it's in their best interest to look at getting a well owned, taken care of set of Infinities from this era. I honestly miss the Kappa Perfect 6.1s I had in my car from then the most, those speakers were a great deal with our employee discount. Keep up the great work Erin!
Cool.. I like seeing how older speakers measure up.. Thanks Erin.. Awesome work.. Nice to see you have found a new lady 🙂
Erin, thanks for doing this review. I bought two sets of Infinity Primus bookshelf speakers and woofer many years ago, and picked them up new, on closeout really cheap. I still use them in my 2nd system in my den and I still like them a lot. Lately I've been curious how well the design holds up to modern speakers so I LOVED this review and I'm glad they did so well.
If you ever get the chance to review either Electro Research (John Iverson's company), Qysonic or Lantana (built by my best friend but also got good reviews in the hifi mags), or Spica TC-50 speakers, all of which I've owned in the far past, I'd love to know how they stand up. I sold the Electro Research 320s to a friend probably around the time you were born and he's still using them when he has a backyard BBQ. I still own the Spicas and the heavy iron speaker stands designed for them but that work for any bookshelf speaker. Sadly my speaker building friend, Mark Merlino, passed away earlier this year but I still come across fans who owned them and are still using them or remember them as sounding great. They hold two design patents, one that prevents speakers with ports from 'farting'.
Anyways, the occasional review of some past speakers, especially ones with some design differences, like this one I listened to at a dealer showroom that was a box with a bunch of speakers of different sizes and facing different directions. Can't remember the name though. There are the electrostatic speakers, you'd ever find a pair but John Iverson was working on a speaker that used a plasma element. Supposedly it was capable of knocking you across the room if you touched the plasma stream.
Thanks again, Erin!
I remember the bookshelves getting hyped
These are almost free in the used market, absolutely wild.
@@tylerhackman6832 I just found a pair new in box sitting in some guy’s garage for 300$. Gonna go buy them assuming they haven’t rotted in the boxes. Lol
Nice! I have these speakers and still have them in active use. I also have the center channel and the subwoofer. I never picked up the bookshelf and kick myself for not doing so. I picked these up circa 2004/5. I got mine for 170 each, so I guess I did good at the time.
These are the speakers I own. Bought about 6 years ago off Craigslist for about $100 for the pair. They were barely used.
Are you telling me that in order to gain an obvious and significant upgrade to these, I'm going to have to spend multi-thousand dollars to find something worthy?
Doesnt surprise me because they sound phenomenal. I cant believe how good of a deal I found. I have them in my dedicated theater, but I also use them for 2-channel music listening. I have embarked on a quest to find enough Infinity Primus bookshelf speakers to completely fill out a 7.4.6 Dolby Atmos system. I have been pleasantly surprised how easy these speakers have been to find.
But not after this review goes viral. Gee, thanks Erin. These are suddenly going to become rare. I still need to buy a pair of P160s for my rear surrounds and 2 pair of P140s for my height channels.
Oh by the way.......I also settled on pulling them out about 18" from the wall and with about 15° of Toe-in........about 3 to 4 years ago. 😂
Losing Infinity was a big kick in the pants. 😫 Those monster speakers that PS Labs has, fah-get-about-it. Kappas, Gammas, crazy good stuff.
Thanks for this review, Erin. I just found a pair of 362s locally for $150. The crossover PCB says "primus 360" so I imagine these perform very close to the 360s. I agree they sound a tiny bit hot up top but otherwise a great speaker - especially for the money. Going to look for more of these to buy.
Time to do the Alpha50 and I have a pair 😁... My college house parties were some of the loudest, bass heavy parties thanks to these and some velodyne subs.
I use to work for an AV Integrator and they always made fun of me for the Alpha50, but it didnt have $5k for Monitor Silver Towers or Genelec's. The Alpha50 were very power hungry, one day I got my hands on a two channel Rotel amp from work and they came to life compared to my Marantz 7003.
I am now relegated to KEF inwalls by the wife - which honestly work better in my space anyway and sounds pretty good for what they are (The poor Alpha's just sit in the corner in my office now). Great and fun review Erin
Bring em over and let’s make it happen!! 😬
im glad you did this review it means alot to those who thing you have to have the latest and greatest im an audiophile for many years here in Toronto Canada been to some audio shows at the KING EDWARD hotel and back then early 80s this thing happened at one of the shows someone put up a black curtain and used vintage audio gear behind it more people gravitated towards that sound than any other i have many canadian made audio gear oracle turntable speakers amps from bryston ETC but still have others from around the world kef 101s the first speakers in the world designed by a computer they still sound great i kid you not and heres the secret to maintain a great sounding gear/speakers never allow sunshine in the room it destroys speakers especially
Those speakers are what I use for my side and back surrounds. I picked up the 5.1 setup of the 4-primus 360 speakers, 8" Primus PS-8 Subwoofer and Primus PC350BK Center channels for $80CAD.
Always loved the 80s early 90s Infinity speakers. Thank Erin.
Infinity Kappa 9s were outrageously good. Please try and find them!
So glad Infinity is being upheld as King! last November, I scoured the locals for 7 Infinity speakers. I got the BETA, a even more refined version of Primus and the R162s. Except for the R series, I had to replace all of the tweeters and solder all the new capacitors, on 5 speakers and also my older C250. I'm surprised that you didn't have to do any of this? The measurements before and after were hugely different. I love the neutral, detailed sound! Great review you have :)
Great review, I agree with this great review. One speaker I owned back in the day was ADS L810. I thought these were some of the best sounding speakers ever. Would love to see you get your hands on a pair of these.
Yeah, those speakers sound great. Very enjoyable sound!
I remember when I started getting interested in car audio during the late 80's to early 90's ADS was known for their great-sounding component speakers. I never had the pleasure of hearing them but it wasn't uncommon to see them in featured vehicles in the mags.
@@hondaphan4172 yes they went away from home audio in the late 80s sad because the really built great speakers. I got to listen to some of their car audio when I was looking for system for a Trans Am. They were good don't get me wrong but, I went with Diamond Audio which in my opinion is some of the best you can get. I love their systems. I think this was around 97 or 98ish when I purchased this system.
Such a great review, thank you so much! In my opinion, the fact that it is "merely academic" as you say gives it an added value, the kern relies in fundamental concepts of speaker design - in other words: I consider EAC to be special precisely because sth like this does have a place in this channel
Thanks!
i've been using their newer siblings, Revel Concerta2 series (F35 and M16) with a Concerta center for a while now. There's better speakers for sure but just haven't found anything so spectacularly better that i'm willing to spend the money on. It would probably be a set of KEF R Meta's if i ever did pull the trigger.
That's a really good speaker. If they located the bass drivers near the floor (to prevent floor bounce) it would a great speaker. Trouble is that would make the front grille much more expensive. Do you have a list of older inexpensive speakers worth investigating?
Thanks for your efforts. Greetings from Hungary.
Well, thank you!
Got S312's and S38's around '02. Still love them, had to refoam a woofer on the 12's and a mid died on a S38, but they still rock!
Very similar to the Primus, is my understanding. Not my primaries anymore though.
Erin those speaker were on sale often at $399 for the pair
I own 7 pairs of infinity primus P163. 5 pairs remain unopened. 14 speakers for 390 dollars. I also have infinity classia c336 fronts (200 dollars per speaker). They have upgraded tweeter and crossover compared to primus and the cabinet are sturdier with better lacquer and bracing than 3000 speakers today. I am not exaggerating. The two qualities of primus/classia speakers that remain superior to newer low-cost speakers are: 1 the construction of the cabinets, which are solid. 2. Durability. The CMMD woofer material and cone assembly are very stiff and durable. Meaning these speakers last a long time without deterioration. They also don't add unwanted resonance. I have compared these speakers to many newer speakers. One area where they are superior to other mid cost speakers is when you give them some power and get after it. Where other modest speakers are starting to fly apart and emit nasty resonance sounds these speakers hold on and dont distort very much. I also mod the ports. To make the classia really sound good in low end and I bi wire and use 150 wpc. My infinity set up is in Florida 40 meters from salty ocean. Just this year I purchased JBL HDI-3800 set up for my home. This system is a refinement of Infinity cmd technology with horn tweeters. It does sound better then classia but it cost alot more. People are often attracted to speakers having alluring names like mozarts totem pole rain makers. I have always used Infinity for home and car and put the money into ATI or fosgate amplifiers.
I’m rocking a pair of towers from 1998 and they sound better than anything I’ve ever heard. Awesome review, shame you can’t get them new anymore
@@r2d3vadar92 I have Jamo Concert 11s that I did some light restoration to. I picked them up for 500$(which is a steal just for empty cabinets of this quality), and had to replace the midrange drivers and ferro fluid in the tweeters. They are SEAS excel tweeter/mids, and Jamo branded bass driver, made in Denmark with quartz composite baffles. Absolute units. I had to pay almost as much for the replacement drivers as I did for the speakers. Lol
@@r2d3vadar92 Mine are Jamo Concert 11s. Made in in Denmark with Quartz composite baffles and SEAS Excel drivers. Absolute units of acoustic engineering. I stole them for 500$ with blown midrange drivers, and cost me less than a grand fully restored. I had Polk LSIM monitors before, and despite them being excellent, these are levels above in detail and dynamic range at volume.
Love to see the comparisons of older designs with newer ones to see how the market has changed.
Thanks Erin, not much changed in speakers as far as technology, materials speaker companies use yes... don't be afraid to buy other speakers if they are in good shape!!
please do more reviews of old speakers. I would love to see reviews of the Infinity interlude speaker family. I would send them to you but im in eastern Canada 🤷🏻♂️
Very interesting, I gave up on buying commercial speakers . So I started learning and teaching myself from books and u tube how to design speakers. I started with cheaper drivers then I wanted it certain sound and designed a speaker with my preferred sound signature. I'm very happy with the look and sound of them. There's actually a photo on my profile.
I remember people raving about the 362's in the 2000s, especially considering the price.
What is everyone's opinion on the mid 1970's Dahl Quist DQ10's? I acquired a very nice set of DQ-10's about 12 years ago for free. My former boss was going to throw them out because they were old and the surrounds on the woofers were gone. I adopted them, put new surrounds on, new caps and resistors on the crossovers and replaced all wires from the crossovers to the driver's with silver wires. I have Spendors, Michael Green Rev 6's and personally, I think the DQ 10's sound better than my other speakers. I'd love to hear what others think, that have had or still have a pair of Dahl Quist DQ-10's.
I had a pair from this line that I gave to grandma. I had a pair from the line up that I gave to someone at work. Infinity made some great stuff 20 years ago.
Very cool. Thanks for doing this. They don't build em like they used to!
infinity made great speakers , amd way ahead of his time relative to technologie ,
the kappa .2 series for example,
the kappa 7.2i was a tremendous good one,
i suspect to buy such a speaker today , would cost a lot of dosh
I'm using the Infinity Reference right now. Good speakers.
never heard of this model Thank you
I remember lusting after the speakers in sound and vision magazine. I was planning to make them a part of my first true home theater set up but time got away, and they were no longer available on the retail market.
Damn, that's a terrible story !
I hate when stuff like that happens!
Great review Erin, I owned these speakers 15 years ago, and your right they are fantastic, i kept them until the RBH R55TI's Tower's became a real monster in the sub 1000 market back in 2013, they were a slight step up over the infinity's top to bottom and looked much better also..... That said 3 years later the Fluance signature series towers debuted in jan 2016 and IMO they blew both the infinity's and RBH's out of the water, build quality sound and looks wise. They are still avaliable today, at only 800 bucks. That said I would really like to see a review of the Fluance signature series tower speakers(from you)...they are a bit long in the tooth (they predate most major av channels), but does not seem to have a successor on the horizon. I would say it is for sure one of the best speakers i have heard under 5000 bucks. I have gone out and listened to many great speakers under 10k(sonus faber sonetto 8, GE triton1) and see no reason to upgrade. I would be willing to bet they crack your top 5 despite being less than 1000 bucks. Please consider reviewing these, I know your busy man, keep up the good work.
Infinity RS-4.5 were my favorite speakers of all time. Owned two pair of them along with pairs of 2000A, RS II-A, RS-1, Kappa 8 and a pair of lower end poly-cell bookshelf speakers. To my ear the RS 4.5s had the best balance of speed, accuracy, 3-D realism and dynamic power.
Speakers are the one thing in this hobby that ages well. Beyond element foam edges ^^. Electronics has become more advanced and better but not really speakers (beyond new tweeter technology et.al.)
Thanks for sharing this information with us on these speakers and I hope you will share more about vintage speakers. I have both new and vintage speakers and I have found that I prefer the older ones. I am a vintage DCM speaker lover that is for the speakers that were before mtx bought them and they were designed by Steve and they are the time window and time frame also the CX series which I own. I have enjoyed your videos more so because you are very informative and straightforward so thank you for your honesty keep up the awesome work.
Thanks for reviewing these it's nice to see when old school kit outperforms the new norm. Personally I like a number of old-school brands like the sony-es series etc brings in a bit of nostalgia and a reaffirmation that we used to make things better 😊
Growing up in the 70's I listened to an old AM radio with an elongated woofer inside and dangly wires hand-soldered to vacuum tubes. It used to take a minute to start. The sound was gorgeous though. My current B&W rig reminds me of that sound when I play the same (old) music. Always makes me wonder how I got such great sound from that old gear - or was it my childhood hearing was so much better that I was fully immersed in the music! Then came an onslaught of small "transistor radios" and the world became obsessed with how clunky the old devices were and how sleek their new incarnations were, forgetting sound quality in the debate. SMH
I still own and use these currently in my living room. Also still own the matching center.
I bought some of these for 75 on eBay and I love them
Excellent review as always - thanks for what you do.
I've found a few Primus pieces at thrift shops. Personally I always found the looks a bit cheap (I prefer something like NHT's glossy black or Snell's black ash veneers). The performance doesn't lie though! They impress where it matters.
Impressive. I owned a pair of Infinities out of this product range when they came out and really liked them. I ended up blowing them up with bass boost lol…I was 15
Been rocking Primus and Alpha 50 bookshelves for many years, also Alpha center dual 6.5 × 4 mid × 1 soft dome BEAST! A center Erin would like I think!
I have 9 lol in my main system. Nobody gets what a bargain these are. I actually offered to send Erin a pair like a year ago and he wasn't interested but glad he's caught on. I'm picking up some Il60s in a week to see how they compare to my P360/P362/P363
Still rockin a 30 year old pair of Definitive BP8 towers. You'd have to pry them from my cold dead hands. LOL They're stupid good.
Would definitely like to see you review more vintage speakers, especially the Yamaha NS-1000m.
Great vid! I would really love to see more "second hand bargain" reviews. The early 2000s Infinity speakers are great candidates, especially the Primus and Beta series with their waveguides and close driver spacing. The Infinity Primus 250 (2 way floorstander with 2 midwoofers) for example is regularly sold around 50-100€/pair on the german second hand market. Would also be a good thing to do from the sustainability perspective.
Hey thanks for your detailed explanations, glad I found your channel. I was wondering if there is a reason why the 360 horizontal contour plot is not visualised in a circle. I think it might help making it easier to visualize in real life. Although reading the graph is fine too :)
Strange that 20 year old speaks don’t have holes at the bottom that needed to be plugged 😂