OG's React to IG's - #1
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2022
- On this episode, Peter Martin and Adam Maness get deep into some "IG" artist videos that focus on jazz piano. Do the OG's like what the new cats are doing on instagram?
artists covered: Domi & JD Beck
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I'm dying I love how much Peter doesn't like it
This is genius and organic as it gets. Its a new era of creativity. As it happened in the past when music fenomena like this occurred, there are the ones, who aproach music with flavor of ideology, that don't get it.
I think something to keep in mind is that this is essentially a demo for Nord keyboards. I wouldn't be surprised if JD and Domi threw this together at the recording date.
Nord Boards Keys are maybe Something for Kids 's Fingers and Hands, isn't it?
Nah its a song they wrote beforehand.
I really love DOMi and JD Beck's album. You're correct it's a different time, platform, there's not as much 'sideman' apprenticeship, plus It's a different sonic conception, w/ Drum and Bass, video game and 'drum machine' and electronica emulation type stuff. Speaking on younger players but of a different style' , there's these two pianists from Republic of Georgia that are really straight ahead virtuosos, Papuna Sharikadze and Beka Gokiashivilli who are really great IMO. Also in Louis Cole's collective, there's a guy called Rai Thystlewaythe who is really great too. Also another great - perhaps a Gen Y player - a Welsh pianist called Gwyllym Symcock who is a great composer/improviser. Check them out if you have chance.
Beka and Papuna are great pianists who have plenty of soul and knowledge of music. You cant compare it to these “gaming jazz” what Peter is referring to.
I really enjoyed this. I saw three generations in action, each more disconnected by the age gap. It was very informative and really challenged my own views, which is welcome. I do think the interaction between DOMi and JD - is there - it's strong - it's just really subtle and really fast.
Worth noting that this recording was from 2019. Adam mentions their development a lot, this recording is is very representative of their identity and style, but doesn't contain a diversity of elements so to speak. I'd be curious to hear Peter react to their newer stuff in relation to this.
Peter, you really articulated what I couldn't about what the missing elements were in their music for me. Their playing is so technically dazzling and the music is full of eccentric surprises that make it fascinating, but in the end, it leaves you a little dry. It was hard to pinpoint exactly why, but your comments helped to clarify some articulable reasons. The counter-example of Kenny Kirkland as someone with comparable supernatural chops, but the ability to project artistic soul through the chops hit home.
It doesn't surprise me that I'd find myself agreeing with your take. I was a UNO Jazz Studies student in the early 90's, and was steeped in the whole Marsalis/NOLA scene back then, as were you, albeit, as a full-fledged sideman.
It's very ironic and postmodern. And postmodernism is really just about lampooning and satirizing forms. So when you hear someone playing a tradition that you love and all they're doing is essentially making fun of it, it feels bizarre. Writers do this too EG David Foster Wallace, Thomas Pynchon, etc. Post modernists can love what they do but there always seems to be a disconnect between heart and head.
I love that Peter didn't let up on his opinion. I think he is saying something very thoughtful there.
Adam, if you like this you'll like Squarepusher. He's been basically doing this but on bass since '96.
I agree 100% with Peter. I watched him play with Terreon Gully, fast tempos and very technical but still interactive and “organic” way of playing. Truth.
“Wait till we get to Jesus” 😂 after hearing Peter’s comment about Domi I can’t wait to hear what he’ll say about Jesus lol
I very much appreciated listening to a reaction channel where there is an obviously high level of musical knowledge ( light years above mine!) so thank you for that. I have often thought of starting a channel but so far have not been as brave as yourselves!
For what it is worth to you both, I think criticism is great, but usually just if it is done constructively or the aim of the criticism is to lift others up or educate in a positive way. I really enjoyed the parts of your reactions where you were taking into account their strengths as well as places you felt they might improve with in time, or identifying elements that might be missing. Again, I learned a lot and my ears got some education into what other people might be hearing :-) Thanks for putting your video out there.
What a boomer take coming from Peter, the drum machine vibe is intentional
he noted the intention. Just doesn't like it overall.
i like that this guy can recognise how technically proficient this is yet still hold his own reservations about the creative choices. even recognising the irony which is a lot of their creative style, take it or leave it, the song is called sniff
The guy on the right is too much of a hater. He’s always looking to tear something down rather than build it up. I appreciate a critical ear but you can tell how he immediately starts going in on what he doesn’t like within the first ten seconds
I grew up on Aphex Twin and PS1 soundtracks so to me this is amazing shit.
I think some of what's highly emphasized in a lot of these newer artists is blisteringly technical skills. A lot of this stuff is inspired by hip-hop/electronic music, which I do find interesting. Although I don't necessarily think all music is getting better just because it's changing. I think the lack of attention span in the modern age (which there are objective physiological factors due to technological exposure) leads to a complete change of pace in compositional development and this is a HUGE underlying difference, and what I think Peter is hearing. There are two extremes in musical development right now I think, some is getting just mind numbingly stupid, but other musicians are expanding technically to ridiculous levels... but very very few are uniting technicality with sincere intention and purpose. I think there is also an underlying reason for this that has to do with some of the currently accepted (although fundamentally absurd) axioms of the modern world that lend to a disconnect between the seemingly separate parts of consciousness. Anyway, I think both made good points. I like JD and Domi a lot but I do hear Peter's critiques and I'm 33 so it's not realy a generational thing for me personally haha.
Also, I can understand what's being said about it sounding computerized. A lot of music is performed and written in a way that mimics how EDM is presented at shows. It just keeps going, no room for "breathing." Just have to keep going and going and going to keep the attention.
I think we have to realize that technique and technicality are all young musicians have. And this type of music appeals to youngsters a lot more than adult. We would all get to see that as these kids get into their thirties, they would start looking at things the way you want to see it.
Great show!
Folks, I feel the same as Peter when I hear these new approaches... always feel a digital emulation in the way they play and approach the form. Layers and cuts ... patch works
Of course, there's no question about the girls' talent. But it's symptomatic of a lot of the music produced in these contexts... Peter made a perfect synthesis, sanitized version, compression, dynamics / loudness (Adam!) ,absence of communication, playing together, playing for each other, danger factor, interconnection, taking risks... totally connect with your approach... keep making UA-cam a breathable place... peace!!!
funniest thing is nord gave JD the midi Drum pad to show off, and he didn't so much as touch it 😂😂😂
Nice analysis ! Love how what he dislikes about this does also define a lot of their muscial identitiy and actually makes it appealing for other people ;)
You really need to see them live. It’s wild.
This is really interesting. Your earlier video on Joey Alexander and now J.D. Beck, age 20, and Domi. It will be fascinating to see where these players go from here. As a 70+ year old who grew up irritating my parents with Monk I find great fascination on being introduced to new players. Thanks
I was (kinda) agreeing when I saw that performance a couple of years ago, but I really liked their album. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing what they gonna do (especially domi).
Enjoyed the whole thing; clearly great talents, and a very interesting analysis by both Adam and Peter. The 'lack of soul' aspect Peter brings up becomes more apparent when you watch something like Bob James's recent trio recording (Feel like Makin' Live). That certainly isn't without chops, but has nothing (keyboard wise anyway) quite on the level of these two. But it's the Bob James recording, that I have, and will, repeatedly go back to.
I get the points, but i think more than anything, this was a product showcase, rather than a live performance. If this was their own performance on their own terms, and not an advertisement then I would say those points stand more firm.
It's Weather Report, fused with Aphex Twin.
I think this highlights the difficulty of getting accurate opinions from one performance. As somebody who knows both these musicians personally, I can vouch first-hand for the connection that they share musically. Every single phrase is synchronised between the two of them and these songs are a result of them bouncing off of each other's ideas. Near enough every live performance where possible, they face EACH OTHER and not the crowd - so that they can focus on the track.
I'd definitely recommend checking out some more of their recent work also, this recording is almost 3 years old now.
Sorry, don't hear it. I see, and hear heads down, focusing on blazing as fast as they *individually* can. I don't hear either of them reacting to each other. Outside of their rehearsed in-sync moments obviously.
No, sorry, I don't hear anything in there that touches my soul and gets my juices going. Incredible technique, astonishing technique, but I have never been overly impressed by that, even though I couldn't play like that if I had 3 or 4 lifetimes to study.
That Is just my subjective point of view which is worth no more and no less than any other. I'd sooner be listening to Kenny Kirkland too... Is it a generational thing though? That's an interesting topic of course.
Anyway, I'm a guitarist not a pianist. BUT...I love this kind of informed discussion by people who really know about music!!!
That’s not a song, it’s a groove in search of a melody.
I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say about Snarky Puppy / particularly Cory Henry's 'Lingus' solo ...
1930’s big band jazz era for me only, guys!
What I love about the music Domi and JD Beck make is that no matter how many times I rewatch it, I notice something I missed before. I’ve listened to their songs hundreds of times but I’m still caught off guard sometimes and get goosebumps. Their music is almost fractal where you can zoom into the individual drum hits or key strokes (or listen for a specific drum sound) and then zoom out to hear the patterns in their musical volley then you can zoom out more and hear the music they are playing for the audience then you can really zoom out and hear the anticipation every time they are approaching a transition. Their songs are multidimensional. I feel like every song I could name is about going along with a melody or singing a song but their style is very percussion heavy and with the help of Domi, their “playing” becomes music.
That's really interesting
nothing unique to them though. You can always notice new things in complex music on relistens.
i love mushrooms too
I bet old and pro musicians used to react just like that when they first heard a new genre or really different music. I understand peter but for me they're really exciting. And anderson paak actually produced it and it sounds pretty good. There's actually more songs in the album that are more relatable and soulful.
Exactly! They are bringing new stuff to the table. Also making non-jazz people curious about jazz!
Loved when Peter came in on drums. Ha!
Red Snapper were playing Drum & Bass music live already in the 90ies ...
"My standards are high. "....."It's too good." 🤦🏿♂️
Peter's opinion is the right one
Compression and any fx are part of the sound. If you're using an electronic keyboard, then why not take advantage of that, to help offset or even mitigate the drawbacks? Also, since it's a Nord product showcase, I think that's part of why it's played and edited so tightly. I wish her Nord "piano" had more velocity layers, too.
They are drum and bass, funk, jazz and hip hop
checked out the NPR tiny desk after listening here, these guys are not bad, the Smile track at 5 min sounds familiar , at least the melody is good and the drummer is on, the solo on U Don't Have to Rob Me song 9 min, solo @ 11 min imho is much better than what is presented here but in the same style.....🌻🥀🌻🥀🌻🌻🥀🥀🌻🌻🌻🥀🥀
Some generational thing going on here... hahah
I like dancing to this music 😄
Lmao
it seems like part of the cool thing (style-wise) about their music is them leaning into sounding like a fully quantized MIDI piano roll/drum machine combo, that's just kind of the style so if that sort of quality doesn't land for people then it doesn't land 😅 no harm
I think they just have to mature a bit. Their live shows are great , they include the wayne shorter composition: endangered species and they take more risks playing live. I saw them at the north sea jazz festival in 2021.great show!
I've never heard you guys speak of Billy Taylor jazz pianist ?? Do you know of him.
I lost it when you mentioned the Final Fantasy 7 theme. Unironically great music. Would love to hear you guys react to some gaming stuff.
This reminds me a lot of modern European jazz. Most notably the drums a lot of times are more rock than swing. Groups like Triosence and Gogo Penguin are improv based usually acoustic trios. I'm willing to say that this is just fusion.
Saw them last night in Bangkok, and although I was skeptical of an 1h15 concert… it was actually more than I expected !! And I am 66 yrs old
If you listen to enough of JD Beck you definitely start picking up Chris Dave and anytime you mention him you gotta listen for different meters compressed or expanded into each other then those crazy ass feels being used as a springboard. It's the new NYC drumming like Guiliana and that Hiatus kaiyote cat
I feel like JD and DOMi are thumbing their nose at all that has come before. They will grow into their talent and hopefully have something deeper to say.
I’d consider myself a fan of these guys but I also agree with a lot of what Peter said
That why I listen to old jazz. Especially McCoy Tyner. My generation has really lost that magic technic. The substance has reduces very much
Snarky Puppy, Louis Cole/Knower, Sungazer... it's not the same language as straight ahead or even fusion. Hard to find any blues or swing in there. But... if you take all of those bands, there are some things in common. And they are working in a common language or co-developing one it seems to me.
The difference is, the older musicians weren't making a soundtrack to the boss level, as in, the level of the game where you fight the giant dude who breathes fireballs etc. And they weren't imitating chopped up breaks as their rhythms. It's a different vibe
Why don’t the reviewers check out some of their live stuff and hear them stretch out more. Tons of that stuff floating around UA-cam now. I took my sons to see them at Blue Note NYC this past June, and they killed!
Dopio Episode i love jd beck and domi and i get peters point, but the Video ist a bit older, if you listen to a bit newer stuff from you can se the evolution a bit mayby you could watch the "Zildjan live" from them thats awsome :))
React to Anomalie Beats please.
We grow up on perfect time unlike the previous generations therefore our ear lends to perfect time
Most videogame music > most jazz
Lol
peter is definitely missing a lot of context from the whole 90's dnb/breakcore thing. i feel like if he had a better understanding of the "non-jazz" influence he'd get it a little more
Please checkout Samuel yirga his playing is insane and he’s play Ethiopian traditional scales pls
This kind of stuff just stands and falls on gimmicks ... There's no organic sensibility to it ...
Play him the Mario Kart lick..if he still thinks videogame music is sanitised jazz then interesting
Did he also dis dirty loops too and compare them to bruno mars in a way? Dirty Loops are fantastic. So are Snarky Puppy
Funny you also did Jacob Collier i have considered JD Beck and Domi to be very similar for a while. Both are some incredibly talented musicians who make terrible annoying music. They lack the interconnecting emotional element of a band, and also the "cool" part of jazz. JD and Domi could just get a bass player like everyone else and be much better i think.
Peter god love him be pollaviejin'
While I appreciate the effort to get to their skill level, I'm struggling to see why they are popular. As someone who likes traditional jazz, I don't think I could listen to an album (or concert) of them.
You know, all these UA-cam people, it seems it's all about technique. What I miss is story telling.
Bald man is the prime example of an boomer jazz gate keeper/enthusiast 💀
bald man is prime example of an older and wiser professional musician who understands that young players tend to be obsessed with technique at the expense of more mature qualities like spirit, interaction and genuine improvisation, and he’s gen x and ain’t gatekeeping s***, but apart from that, great comment.
And he's dead on. lol
I agree with Peter.
Agreed with Peter's takes here, mostly.
Usually I like Open Studio content. Just found this OG/IG series and maaan do you guys sound like some serious haters- even (especially?) With all the little caveat comments to try and avoid coming off that way 🤣
ua-cam.com/video/B5dpkkzCgJk/v-deo.html
Useless video. People make a statement, it's a statement and quite coherent. It doesn't "beg" the approval of some sort of on the inside the club jazzers. It really doesn't and it is really disrespectful, IMHO, to nit pick these presentations to death. I'd like to see them do that with one of Peter's presentations. Play, stop, "oh, that could be better, play stop, oh, I kyna like that, but not really, he'll probably be decent by the time he turns ninety. He could us a bit more soul sauce in that mix, a little anemic there, but, you know, he's sorta old....play, stop, play stop, rinse repeat. Double YUK on this series of "tear down" young players but old still tryna make it hacks...BOOO.
Aww c’mon OG, let the kids be kids lol if you want something more familiar, check out their take on My Favorite Things. I promise it won’t disappoint you OG jazzers. There’s various vids of them doing that song and none of them are performed the same every time.
To add…with accolades from Glasper and Herbie, there’s no denying the integrity from these kids. Jazz is a reflection of the times and that’s exactly what they’re doing, and what they love to do. Elements of bop and straight ahead will slip in, of course, but they’re set on the progression of the genre.
I think Peter nailed it when he said it’s like 2 machines. This would be fairly easily replicated with sequencers and synths which is something that is very difficult or impossible to do with a great piano trio.
What's missing for Peter is that he couldn't play it 😂
In these days of AI & mass depression, ANY HUMAN, especially a young person, playing music, should be applauded. #MakeMoreMusic
Pretty entertaining. Lost me when you started with “soul” stuff. Kinna ridiculous, really-in my opinion. A lot of composers look upon music as an intellectual endeavor-at least in part. Or is that too very soulless for ya? Also, are there different levels and categories of soul playing and composition? Like, “I’m gonna inject some soul style ‘82B12’ in this section ‘cause it fuses some evil soul with some heavenly spirit.”
I agree with Peter it has a feel of short pieces just stitched together doesn't have that it was created as one piece. I'd really like to hear Domi without JD Beck because to me JD always sounds the same to me and I'm growing tired of his playing already. As Adam said want to hear Domi getting experience from more musicians and genres. I think Domi well grow and evolve and be around a long time. JD will be a drummers drummer and not a drummer known for making any genre groove.
Since you said Jacob Collier I throw out my opinion in advanced. In general his music bores me and I prefer to her him when he does he one man shows or play with others. Jacob is a master of recording and theory extremes especially with the pulling in the quarter tones of Eastern music with Western music. Jacob's recorded music is like he trying to show off his theoretical and recording skills even if the song doesn't call for it. That explains why I like Jacob when in a simpler setting of solo or performing with someone else.
Back in my day (60's-80's) there was this constant thing about West Coast vs East Coast music and who's better. What it boiled down to was in general West Coast music was alway more complex and East Coast was simpler but a whole lot of Soul. You could hear it in the writing and arrangements Rock and Pop. When I was in Jazz music school and was very familiar with West Coast Jazz going to clubs all the time and listening and watching the bands. Then Woody Shaw came to town full on East Coast band and music. They played and so much feeling the veins were popping in their foreheads and fire coming from their instruments. When someone in Woody's band took a solo the rest of the band was focused on every note then played, they weren't looking around for the waitress or chatting up someone next to the stage. Woody Shaw showed me what serious Jazz playing was all about.
Back to Domi and JD, Jacob Collier they are "West Coast" and I think there is East Coast in them and hopefully will show itself in near future.
I HATE JD Beck. Every rushed beat he plays sounds exactly the same.
Peter is hating hard
Dude with the glasses is such a hater and so out of touch. Likening the beat to trap-style music and Bruno Mars...? What? Also, reducing their prowess and intentions to just wanting to hit algorithmic milestones for Instagram is such a a baby boomer cop out. Dudes musical opinion is out dated.
Peter is tripping 😂
Hes right, this kind of music doesnt make you feel anything 😂
There was a style in the 90s called Drum n Bass and that’s was this sounds like which was preprogrammed. I agree with Peter
Music needs to connect with the heart
You can tell Peter Martin is way more versed in traditional jazz and won't put up with this new/ younger generation of mindless noodling... conversely, Adam Maness is not as traditional as Peter (in my estimate after hearing them both play) and as such, is more accepting of this line of nonsense. from all these up coming young players....
Peter Martin... What a negative mindset, wow. Clearly threatened by the youth
Why would he? No one will take Peters gigs, they wouldnt come close 😂
never heard a jazz guy who hated silence, weird shit. you have a problem with a bit of restraint sometimes but crave and beg for it other times
Peter is so bad at criticizing
Rubbing me the wrong way Peter with your arrogance
Not even letting it play through and sink in and the opinion is way too quick to assume you know what’s going on before the music paints its picture. This is their own thing influenced by what you already know
LOL he was so polite about it!
I love Domi & JD Beck, ....some sort of hyperjazz!! 💿🎸🩰🎶🌈🕊
For the bald guy… are you kidding me?
You are just so damn jealous…