I never played Path of Exile, so they flew me to LA
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- main channel: @J1mmy
Grinding Gear Games invited me out to LA to try Path of Exile 2, and it was pretty much my first ARPG. This is how it went.
Flutten:
@Flutten // @fluttenvods // / flutten
#pathofexile #pathofexile2 #poe2
I like that there was someone on the POE team was just like "oh yeah get that Jimmy guy here. I just want to hang out with him"
Creating character is a big waste of time, and I am never satisfied how my character look if I have to make it myself. In PoE there is so much going on that you shouldn't even think about things like character creation. And you can make your character look different with the cosmetics you can buy. You never see the face of the character anyway when character is covered in gear.
@@Zemlja_je_ravna ok schizo
@@Zemlja_je_ravnawhat on earth are you talking about?
@@BulaRotMG I think old mate clicked comment in the wrong section
@@BulaRotMG Relax you just shouldn't want character creation, don't be mad about it.
J1mbo: "I don't wanna rethink my whole build every time a weapon drops!"
Every PoE player:
Ooo that looks cool, proceeds to completely abandon the current character and spends 5 hours messing about in PoB :D
Meanwhile I'm pondering at act 7 if I should drop my "totally op" levelling unique for actual elemental resistance upgrades because it gives my corrupted gem +5 level (I use it just to summon the two clones from the corrupt double strike)
@@d4n617One of the most important thing in the game is having max resistances.
@@Domedwho Gosh, I think someone using leveling uniques knows that.
@@SeventhSolarI mean considering they haven’t swapped or gotten max resistance before then id assume telling them that they would benefit more from having max relemental resistances would help them?? so toxic lol
I find it easier to quit doing cocaine than to quit path of exile
But why quitting cocaine when it lets you grind for longer!
trueing
Tried fentanyl?
So you have not mixed them yet?
@@MrMelani1 this was dangerous during affliction, man getting wisps was a time while high
i've watched about a dozen different takes from people that were invited out to this event and yours is the first i've come across for someone who really, very clearly, has no familiarity with the loot-hack'n'slash-ARPG genre. very interesting since a big part of PoE2 is about expanding the audience and it's hard as a longtime player of PoE1 to imagine how everything looks to someone who's not new to games, but is new to the genre.
regarding most of your concerns/complaints, all i can offer: ARPG is a genre that specifically has you "role play" not a character, really, but rather a power fantasy. the genre generally doesn't care what your character looks like, their backstory, where they're going or why... it's just about the power they possess and the simple cathartic enjoyment of theory-crafting that power, building that power, piloting that power, seeing it grow. with some more experience if that turns out to be your jam you'll find most of your concerns erode away or if its not your jam then it may not be your genre.
glad ya had fun and i think you will enjoy it when it fully releases. i wholly expect i'll be no-lifing it for months.
In terms of "seeing myself in the world" through character creation, POE's secret sauce is that build creation is more diverse and individualized than any character creator I've ever used. In FFXIV I feel seen when I see my character's face. In POE I feel seen every time I press a button because I put that button there.
I think the whole purpose was to get someone completely new to the genre and listen to their feedback to see if they can somehow make it clearer what the players have to do and why they are confused at something.
I don't think character creation ever registered as a concern. Though I must say the whole "you don't see your character" talk makes little sense. Yes, it's an isometric ARPG where you have a fixed camera angle. You can't even change the camera angle or stuff starts clipping in weird ways. But like, in D4 I just unchecked almost all armor and definitely the helmet. With a minimum amount of transmog you can see your character. It's one of the most jarring things about PoE as a new player
I came here to write a comment but you wrote it so much better than I could. APRG as a genre is definitelly different. For example I never really cared for normal RPGs, like I did some KOTOR and Mass Effect and Witcher back in the day but ARPGS are a totally different thing. I've spent tens of thousands of hours in PoE and I know less than 1% of the lore because it not what I play the game for.
With that said I love that GGG is taking feedback from players outside of their specific audience. It only helps create a better game and hopefully hook more people into the aprg genre.
To be fair PoE is literally the ARPG with the steepest most unforgiving learning curve I've ever played. It's probably the hardest ARPG from a theory crafting perspective. I was never able to fully get into the end game because of this. It's just so much work to figure out your build, while at the same time not being able to redo your build just makes it too frustrating for first time players.
Super cool you participated, dude! I saw you there but didn't know if I should walk up and say hi. Maybe next time I will ;)
That wink 😏
That wink changes this whole comment
"He's just winking... menacingly."
I'm glad ggg invited you out to get the perspective of brand new players to arpgs. The issues you had at the begginning of the video seems to be feedback they have taken into account as mentioned in recent interviews they gave.
Thanks for peeping our lil game
Him getting a PoE elite 2 controller and not knowing what it is makes me so jealous
Jim out here just casually showing of a custom elite controller like its just a regular controller is so very funny.
This is the crossover I wasn't expecting but I love to see
Hey J1m, about the generation complaint: a zone will usually have a list of up to around 20ish encounters or bosses to find that all offer different rewards and challenges.
Each time your zone rerolls (the fog of war comes back and everything respawns) it will pull a map seed and then roll on the encounter table to see what events will spawn.
Yes, eventually you will have seen all the map seeds and all the events. But overall, its to give a good bit of replayability and make it so backtracking to a zone you just cleared isnt just you running through empty fields for 10min to run to a spot for a quest.
Yes, but the zone won't reroll unless you've been outside of it for a certain period of time(maybe 15 minutes or so?), or you purposefully reroll the zone when you try entering it again.
To add onto that, it's not unique to PoE either. Instances resetting to be explored and farmed again is a staple of the ARPG Diablo-clone genre.
@@PherPhur I assume you'll be able to do the old ctrl-click thing on the zone entrance to create a new instance, like in PoE1, unless they've changed that.
In PoE 1 you can equip a weapon that an attack skill wont work with. The skill becomes grey and the tooltip of the skill gem does tell you what weapons it works with. I think perhaps this was a limitation of the console UI, I would imagine on the skill gem page it will show you the weapon types they are compatible with.
i dont think the current implementation was born of console limitation. If this would have been poe1 , he would have equiped the new weapon , went on , encountered monsters and freak out why the hell no of his skills are working (even if they were grayed out since change) and most probably die and hate the game. Now he wasnt able to change weapons and "hates" the game , but probably a little less than in the first scenario
7:56 "Requires: One Hand Mace, Two Hand Mace" 😄
Yeah as he is complaining about that I’m looking like I’m pretty sure the game tells you that lol.
skill issue for sure lmao
“I don’t think in games like Poe there will be things like sneak archers to cheese encounters”
Welp it’s for sure confirmed, jimmy has never seen or watched Poe 1 content 😂
Was really fun getting the perspective of someone who never played ARPGs at all before. The concept of not wanting to leave loot on the ground, even white items that sell for 3 gold, is one I hear a lot from people in that situation, lmao. Part of the progression of what feels great in these kinds of games is scrounging around for loot to sell in the early game, then progressing to not caring about some items, then not caring about more and more items as time goes on, leaving more and more stuff on the ground because the time it takes to pick up and process it just isn't worth it when that time could be spent bonking another skeleton on the head for more loot and levels. The devs have said in PoE2 they're trying to limit this, as PoE1 is known for being a loot pinata nightmare, where you install custom filters into your game to fliter out all the loot you don't want to even see.
For two other things you mentioned, the devs stated that PoE2 has level scaling specifically for the first time you enter a zone in the campaign (Unless I misunderstood it). So if there are branching paths, and you go Route A for a bit then return to Route B, Route B will be higher level than A. But once set because you engaged with it, they stay that way. [edit: I recalled this a bit wrong, and Ashgan9 describes it better in the reply below.]
For the "not being able to equip certain weapons" thing, I agree it's pretty confusing. When playing a new melee class in PoE1, I often ran into the same problem, and it feels awkward that it's only for melee classes since ranged just use bows (sometimes wands but rarely) and mages don't care since spells didn't have a weapon requirement. In PoE1 the weapon requirements were listed per skill in an often overlooked spot, and it seems sliiiiightly more obvious in PoE 2. For example, at 07:57, Boneshatter and Earthquake says "Requires: One Hand Mace, Two Hand Mace" (and being level 1) towards the bottom half, right above the italics. I'm going on a limb, but I assume the reason they don't even let you equip other weapons before unequipping your skills is the fear of a new player finding a new weapon, equipping it, selling their old weapon, and going into a dungeon without being able to attack anything and getting a super bad feeling of just bricking themselves since they can't even go back and use their old weapon. I dunno which is better though, since as you've said not being able to equip it is also a pain point, when things like tooltip popups or a voice line when you try to use a skill and the character saying "I don't have the right weapon for that" or whatever seems totally reasonable.
If my limited understanding is right then the zone leveling is for alternate paths so (again if I'm understanding this right) both zones in example would be 10, after completing one zone the other would be 12, the scaling is not to your level but just a bump to keep the alternate paths relevant.
@@Ashgan9 I think you're right. I just remembered scaling but didn't remember how it worked, and didn't explain it well either way, lmao.
It's frustrating in a way to see the 'not able to use weapon' thing happen, as that is something they pointedly wanted to fix with PoE2. It is very rare to pick up a direct upgrade in PoE1 that you can just use immediately without having to fiddle around with it's sockets; whether that is the number of, the links between them or the colour.
@@eSpyre I think the worse problem is that it interferes with the 2 weapon bit... unless you are using 2 of the same weapon just due to different magic effects, otherwise what if you want to use the bow and a melee weapon... or 2 different melee weapons for different abilities/situations...
That was the whole point of the auto switch setting.
@@Ashgan9 I assume it's checking whether the skills can be used at all with either equipped (or to be equipped) weapon rather than only with the weapon that is being swapped. Swapping his club was not being blocked because it disabled his two hand sword requiring skills.
As someone else mentioned, the lore in PoE 1 is told passively. You find things on your road, like letters, poems, statues that tell a little bit about the story. But the story told is such snippets is disjointed and extremely confusing.
But this is an extremely good thing. As a player you will play the campaign over and over and over and over (still sane Exile?). Slowly the disjointed lore will become more in focus, you start to figure out who these characters and bosses are, what they mean to each other.
12:05 - In PoE 1, areas are instanced. You have ~15 mins before an instance dies (while no players are in it). Using a portal also keeps the instance open, but the portal will disappear when the instance dies. You can also see all instances by Ctrl+Clicking an area transition, where you can see how much time each existing instance has left and you can even forcibly create new instances
I have over 500 hours in PoE 1 (which means I'm barely a beginner), but I had no idea you could ctrl click area transitions to get that info.
Yeah that weapon skill issue is wild, in a recent interview Jonathan said they're thinking of redoing the skill list to use weapon tabs instead of class tabs.
The weapon swap error message definitely feels weird but they might have tried to play safe by avoiding a situation where players unfamiliar with Path of Exile 2 could swap their club for a sword and suddenly see themselves unable to use the Earthquake skill they were using moments ago and not knowing why, because every attack skill in the game is restricted by a weapon type so Earthquake can't be used with a sword.
As a PoE veteran, I would rather have the ability to swap weapons freely and later remove incompatible gems if needed, so hopefully they improve on that. Like you said, they should just add a skippable warning message (which can be disabled permanently in the game options) which pops up on the screen if someone tries to use an attack that is incompatible with the weapon the character is holding.
Also, another thing to take in account is that the theme of each skill is based on a specific class, so although mace skills can be used by anyone, the Warrior is the archetypical mace user while the Duelist is the sword user, but since the Duelist class alongside his thematic sword skills are not implemented yet, then trying to equip a sword feels quite pointless in the current alpha.
I want a whole video of J1m trying to figure out how to map controls onto the paddles of his new controller.
Regarding the fog of war: at least in PoE 1, you're not really expected to go back to already discovered areas. Unless you're underleveled and need xp. You just go through each zone once, doing the quests, and then move on. So it's not really an issue. Also, exploration has never really been a selling point of PoE, this game is about killing monsters for loot so you can get stronger, and do harder content in the endgame. So the fact that it's procedurally generated adds some variation to repeatable content. And if it's procedurally regenerated, it needs to reset the fog of war. At least in PoE 1, the map instance you entered stays active for a certain amount of minutes, so if you go back shortly after clearing it, you will still get the same map that you already cleared.
Actually that also answers the question about character customization. If you make a character in an MMO that you'll play for years, fair enough, you want to customize that. PoE runs on a 3-4 month league cycle, that's when everyone makes a new character. And many people will play many characters per league. At a certain point, you're not gonna care about your build's eye color if you're only playing it for a week or something. And again, this game is about loot and killing monsters, the story/immersion part has always been kind of a background thing. On the other hand, there's plenty of RPGs where you play a specific character's role (role playing = playing a role, even if that's not a role that you custom made). Witcher 3 is a great example. It's a single player RPG, is it not? You're playing Geralt of Rivia, nobody else.
I love seeing new perspectives. I agree on most points and still got comments on them tho:
1) Weapons: The only thing I know is that they implemented that restriction for the new game. In PoE1 it happens exactly what you asked, but they have found that the data full of new players that report not being able to use skills as a bug, so they decided "fuck it, you cant even equip the weapon that way you certainly know you have to change it". Tbh I think it will have the same problem or make it even worse, who knows.
A really important thing that makes PoE what it is is that any class can do any skill and use any weapon in the game, 90% of the game itself is comming up with new builds (thats why character appearance customization is not emphasized since you will be changing characters quite often when you are a veteran), so putting restrictions on what weapons/skills you can use as a specific class would undermine an extremelly core concept of the game.
Another point that I personally think it is important is the identity of each weapon. For example in d3 your weapon was basically a stat stick instead of the thing you used to attack. Making it so you can use something like "puncture" with a mace makes no sense and would take the identity of maces away: A big chunky thing that you swing to do blunt damage.
2) On the topic of reseting zones each time you go back to town... it doesnt work that way in PoE1 and looking at it... I hate it lol I dont know what they are thinking, but something that most PoE1 players hate is backtracking and that looks like worse than backtracking, it is... backexploring?
You can force a reset of a zone in PoE1 and sometimes you use it when you want to farm a particular zone, but it is an opt-in mechanic, not a forced one. I hope it doesnt stay that way.
3) I love that you liked the combat. PoE1 is a completely different story, the combat is horribly clunky, so hearing that the combat is smooth and fun makes me super hopeful.
4) Loot... Ahh loot in PoE. If you saw the amount of things that drop in PoE1 you would get a heart attack. Similar to other things, loot in PoE1 is mostly made so the curated drop rates that have been tweaked for more than a decade work. Thats why they let us filter most stuff (in that sense, only stuff that you are interested in actually work, you can actually not even render stuff that you are filtering out). New players have this problem, we all had this problem. I dont think it is necesarilly the best or a good solution. I hope they make less stuff drop but the things that drop are better. The problem is that, with the amount of build flexibility this game has, what is "good loot" is super different from person to person.
im going to bet the area reset because they spent more than 15 minutes outside of it. that, or the area reset because they picked up the new quest for the burrow and for some reason it wasn't already spawned in their first area.
Them not rendering it has been more important than ever recently. I remember last league having to use a strict loot filter just to avoid crashing my instance
Loved to hear the level scaling section. In college, I took a game development capstone course, and the big thing they made the whole course about was "adaptive difficulty". That is, making the game harder for skilled players and easier for weaker players, silently, as a means of improving player retention and preventing people from quitting due to boredom or frustration.
But I just can't get behind the idea of punishing players who are good so that they can never feel like they have domination in the game, or babying unskilled players so they don't have to face setbacks and grow. Imagine if every time you lost to a Dark Souls boss, it's max health and damage went down a bit. When you reward players for appearing to be unskilled, or punish them for pursuing stronger equipment or playing well, you're inverting and totally fucking up the game's design. It falls apart the moment they figure out you're doing it. I would trade some player retention in exchange for maintaining my game's integrity and rewarding skilled play.
This lines up with the idea that (art) teachers are often people who failed to become very successful in their field and just started teaching. You see this with acting teachers, music, etc etc. People teaching art are not always the best people to take lessons from. Sometimes they're great, I'm sure.
I was not prepared for J1mmy to put out a PoE video today
the character creation in poe comes with customizing your abilities and loadout. how you describe it felt good to "hit stuff", customizing that experience of hitting stuff is the character customization in arpgs and POE is the king at making that aspect extremely unique and fulfilling
In PoE 1 areas are instanced. When you go through areas you will leave old areas open. Each instance will stay open for 8-15min. You can also open multible instances of the same area. What happens to some newer player is that they will stay in town for to long and the instance will close. If they have a portal that will be gone too and they have to replay the area again. This was displayed as a quick tip on the loading screen.
"I hate level scaling" - man, you would love Diablo 4 !
meh it's level scaling but it's mostly irrelevant. You get so much stronger by the endgame that your character is killing lvl 150 things with ease
Skyrim?
There is no character creation not only due to the reasons provided by Johnatan but also because ulimately the game is meant to be played over and over again, you will create hundreds of characters over the seasons. After just a few characters, 98% of the playerbase will just be skipping the creator and picking the default every season It's really a waste of resources.
ARPGs in general are systems games. It's better to think of them as system action games rather than RPGs because there's really no roleplaying/exploration in the great majority of them and it's not too important for the regular experience of running maps/building your character. PoE still has one of my favorite worlds in any videogame due to the lore and worldbuilding, which are not spoonfed to you but are meant to be explored sort of like a Dark Souls game, if that's something a player is interested in, but the game doesn't dwell on lore or story, at least not PoE 1.
Why would you create hundreds of characters? Just like with Runescape why would I want to spend time progressing another character instead of the one I already invested time into?
@@Kraus- Because POE players like to try new things. Like a new build that this character cannot do, or optimized for a specific type of content that requires an entire different class. Of course you can spend the entire season playing just one character, and a lot of players do that. But each season comes with a lot of changes, and those changes may not last forever, so now may be the only time to try it out. Thus, they cycle through characters, play for as long as they want to, then move on to the next. This is quite typical of the ARPGs genre, which I think is one of the main difference of its broader RPG genre.
It'd still be nice to have a simple character creator with a couple of options. D4 didn't have many options, but I still liked creating new characters. It's just fun to make your lil person ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't mind that they don't. But I would use it if they had it :)
@@Kraus-when a new season first comes out you’re not allowed to play it with your old character you have to roll a new one. After that season is over in a few months and a new one replaces it, some of its features will get rebalanced and added to base game at which point _then_ your old character can try it.
This is the loop PoE games operate on, new features come out as a part of whats called a “league.” Some of these features will be designed from the outset to be limited time only, so as not to stack too much power creep, while others will use the league as a kind of beta test to see if and how they can be permanently added to the game. To play the league you have to roll a new league character, when a league ends all characters and equipment get ported back to the main game along with _some_ of the new features.
Another reason to roll more characters is that respeccing in PoE isn’t easy. It’s supposed to be easier in PoE2 than PoE but by design you can’t just go hit a button, pay a moderate sum, and respec to square one. Partial respecs are accessible, full respecs become punishing into the late game. Instead if you want to try something totally different your kindof expected to reroll an entirely new character.
Some Additional Context: One of the additional big benefits to doing new seasons this way is that is that it enables the league to act as a sort of opt-in “wipe” if you’ve ever played games like Tarkov. Like in Tarkov, it allows the devs to reset the economy into something more healthy every few months, where older market-focused players don’t have have vice-like grip on the market yet and prices for things are much more sensible. Unlike in Tarkov though, your pre-wipe gear and characters aren’t lost forever, they’ll always be available for you to play on the non-league world.
@@rhobidderskag1121 That's a bummer. I was thinking about picking up the game, but if progress is reset every few months it's pointless.
Regarding character creation and lack thereof - as a path of exile player, I've actually never been saddened at all by the fact that you can't customise your own character! In fact I've always enjoyed the different personalities of the different Exiles, with PoE1's Witch being my favourite. Having preset characters allows each preset to have a defined backstory and personality and allows NPC dialogue to reflect on that in more detailed ways than just having NPCs make basic references to the character's class occasionally. Brings a lot of life to replaying the campaign when each replay with a different Exile has some different dialogue from both your character and the NPCs at key points (though they had a lot less of that after act 5 in the first one unfortunately, hoping PoE2 has it all the way through).
So yeah, I'm not sad at all that they've taken the same approach with characters for PoE 2, and I just hope that the Exiles' voice actors are spot on, that their voice lines are full of flavour, and that NPCs have plenty of different dialogue for the different Exiles!
duelist and piety flirting back and forth inbetween killing eachother is peak PoE writing
@@MyNameIsSalo And Dominus greeting the duelist with the line "Welcome to the greatest of arenas, duelist. GOD, is watching!"
Spot on! I want to play THE Witch, not just RandomWitch#494728
They have been adding more lines to A5-A10, I remember "Golden arse of Innocence" being a voiceline that was added to Duelist (probably same patch as Templar lines), Affliction gave new lines to Scion and Ranger
@@wumi2419 yeah true, I forgot to mention that. I’ve been really grateful that they’ve been going through the exiles and giving them new voicelines for the later acts, it’s been making replaying the campaign each league more interesting hearing new lines. I especially loved playing the ranger for the wildwood league in particular, since she got some voicelines specifically for the wildwood as her new lines released alongside that league, and one of her lines confirmed some lore relating to it (regarding Gruthkul being the Porcelain Queen), which was really cool!
Character creation features are something a few players really really enjoy. Others find it tedious and click the randomize button a bunch of times until they hit something passable, just to get into the game more quickly. Personally, I'm quite happy that GGG puts their resources into extra areas and bosses instead of giving me the option of having a long nose or a super thick brow.
Yeah I don't feel really tied into character creation either... but maybe cuz that's cuz I'm from a game era where character creation = mario or luigi....
I agree with you about exploration which is one of the things I enjoy most in RPGs. But ARPGs aren't so much about exploring as blasting mobs and getting loot. Maps are essentially large-ish randomized arenas with themes to facilitate that. That's one of the things I liked in Diablo 4 was it had a large open-world non-randomized over world map and you felt like you were making progress the more you explored it. But its also small enough that once you've beaten the main campaign you've seen it all. I'd love a much larger open world that might take months to explore but doesn't require it to finish the campaign
Great video. So interesting to hear the perspective of someone new to the ARPG genre and your thoughts are spot on. LOVED that you mentioned how level scaling is the scourge of games as I agree a billion percent. Also loved your idea on why to play a melee class.
9:59 - This is exactly how it works in PoE1
21:00 - Yes, you can respec and it's generally pretty easy(depending on your pathing in the skill tree). While PoE doesn't have much customization with how your character looks, all of the cutomization in this game comes from the most in-depth build cutomization in any game on the market and it's not even close.
I've played this game since the beta in 2011, it's in my top 3 games of all time and I still play every single league (like a season/expansion that comes out every 3-4 months) - Also a big J1mmy enjoyer, I'm super happy they invited you and that you went! - While some of your criticisms might just be ARPG things, I think it's a cool perspective to hear and I'm sure it makes the devs go "yeah, why do we do that thing?".
Generally the devs are such sweethearts, they genuinely LOVE their game and it's legit the only game company where I feel like there's a human connection between the devs and their playerbase, it's not just some amorphous company that is disconnected and out of touch (looking at you, Blizzard).
Also, when it comes out, do a campaign playthrough with Flutten, I think it'd be FUN to watch. BYE.
It told you what weapon was required when you hovered over the gem.
Apparently not obvious enough
That wasn't the complaint.
He obviously knows why he can't equip the weapon, the game told him, then he told us. In case you weren't listening, what he _wants_ is to be able to equip weapons even if skills become disabled. He doesn't care about the skill, he just doesn't want to have to take all his skills out before changing weapons.
@@SeventhSolar why would you equip a weapon that doesn't work with your skill setup?
@@seigfried_ Did you watch the video? He wanted to try out the new weapon type.
You're lucky i found this, literally algorithm somehow teleported me here, why isn't it on your main channel?
Glad it made its way to you & others from the main channel - I wanted this to be a more laid back video with less stress on editing. I hold my main channel's quality standards super high and don't wanna sacrifice it, especially for something like this where I'm unsure how my audience would react/how it would perform/affect performance of future videos. It's a stressful factor of branching out (which I'm still doing on main channel) but on this channel I can post whatever and not stress as much about performance/post whatever i'm feeling like!
@@J1mmyPlus Ah ok that makes sense! Maybe mention/link this video on your next main channel video? Idk up to you, just glad I found it!
Edit: Thanks for replying! I'm so glad we share the same opinion on level scaling too!
Changing weapon stuff issue that you have, IS a SKILL ISSUE (or should i say reading issue) for sure, this is in SOOOOO many different type of games, certain skill can only be used with a certain type of weapon, its says so on the skill. First time i picked up PoE1 many many many years ago, even i understood that in like 10-15 min.
During the campaign their put in random things you can find so that you can have fun and get a new experience every time you level a new char, you need to know that most poe1 players make like 10+ char every league, so a bit of change in each zone is good, you NEVER go back to the zones you have been to.
And i would bet everything i own that 99% of all poe players have no clue what the story and lore is, i haven't read a single line or text or story in the game.
You bring up a very good point about the weapon thing, Flutten’s ranger class is cut and dry here is bow and bow skills. Warrior on the other hand has sword, ax, mace, club, etc. that you have to meticulously make sure skills work for.
Your perspective is truly eye opening. When you talk about the sword you cant use vs the club you can.....and you show your skill that requires a club/bashing weapon.....I default to complete user error. Of course you cant use your sword for a skill that requires a club.
And then i think to the time i was teaching my kid how to drive.....and they said the rear view mirror was too dim, and i told them to take it out of night mode (where it flips up a bit so you dont get blinded by headlights behind you) and she had zero clue what i was talking about....
There are things that some people become so accustomed to, that even the concept of it not being obvious eludes us.
I think perspectives such as yours are very important, because they will point out invisible flaws, that become completely obvious once they are pointed out.
Help the devs See the forest thru the trees
another benefit of NOT having a character creator, is that each of the classes can have its own VERY established story identity. Each class in PoE 1 was voice acted, interacted with the NPCs very differently, and had unique dialogs with them. Some people (myself included) end up liking a specific class's characterization so much that they exclusively play as that class! The community starts rallying around their favorite classes not just because of the playstyles, but because of how well they're written and voice acted! The voice acting in PoE has always been among the best in video games, and it would be hard to achieve that level of excellence if the player could make whatever monstrosity they wanted. Casting would be impossible xD
For me that's very true with Borderlands.
Borderlands 1 2 and 3 characters are perfect in the identity sense. They have many jokes, many of their specific builds.
And then wonderlands made a generic character creator and the game is much worse flr that.
You can do that with a character creator just have a man and woman voice actor. Done.
I can only speak in terms of POE1 since I haven't played POE2 yet , but you raised the interesting point of worldbuilding and how vital it is for RPG immersion. So I wanted to give my viewpoint as a multiple thousands hour gamer in POE who also usually cares deeply for lore and story. POE in general has a very passive story, that usually never actively engages you unless you want to care for it. There is voice acting, but most of the story is contained and never really tries to take a large part of the playthrough. That is in terms of plot, in terms of worldbuilding I think POE is very cool. There are multiple moments where the places you go look so good damn awesome with unique enemies and giant bossfights with fantastic line delivery and music. It has this extremely grand feeling of literally traveling the cosmos looking for new worlds to conquer or save. This can bring a lot of immersion if you care for it. However, my main reason for immersion in POE is how community based and how varied the systems are during the endgame, which is ironic because technically that isn't plot or worldbuilding in more a sense than its the systems and content in the game. I get immersed in my character because he can be a completely unique character that is built around doing this one specific endgame content the most optimal way. Essentially, that content becomes the job of my character. Because there is a massive system of crafting and trade, the unique crafting material I get from that content my character can use to sell or trade for other forms currency or power. Then you start to look for the gaps in your character and think damn I cant farm this stuff, so you find a guy who is specialized in that stuff. Now you have a bunch of crafting materials but crafting is hard. So you find a guy who just crafts items and he helps you because he literally makes money of crafting good items and selling them. All these characters you meet ingame feel so varied and unique that when you interact with them you see them as immersed and therefore immerse yourself. That is my perspective for where I get my Immersion Fix in POE. I am a delver, and that will mean nothing to you, but understand it is a hated profession, because people find it boring to play. I love it, and I love that it makes me mad cash because there is always a lack of us in the market. This comment ended up longer than I thought. Great video though :)
GGG said they are going to change the system for gems in a way that if you have an specific weapon you can see what gems are available for them rather than being based on the class you play
Super happy they invited you to experience this! It’s super healthy for a game like this to have an outside opinion that is unbiased and well put together. Thank you for testing and making the game better!
Nope, you're completely correct. They need to let you know on the tooltip it will auto-unequip all those skill gems(unless you don't have room in your inventory), and then let you do it when trying to equip a different weapon that is not compatible with those skill gems.
I feel like that's such a major oversight that it is in fact not an oversight and that it just hasn't been implemented yet.
They probably don't want people to miss the tooltip, vendor the weapon that works with their skills and soft-brick their character.
In PoE 1 some players would sell their weapon and equip a new weapon that wont work with their skills. I'm pretty sure you will have the option to remove the restriction of equipping weapon or gems you can't use in the settings an those will just be grayed out if you do so.
@@RG32822 That would make more sense out of this seemingly bad decision.
It's still a bad design decision though, if that's the case they need to either make the warning more visible or have a yes/no prompt which can be disabled in settings.
Bro this is the best content cross over I’ve ever had
I’ve played RS since the mid 2000’s. Left at EOC , came back when Osrs was released.
Have also played PoE since release.
I feel like this episode was made for me lol.
PoE is a game made for farming the same maps and locations over and over again.. It's 90% of the game.
So if an area resets because you left it, it's very much intentional game design. So that once you find a place you enjoy farming, you can do it. (You just have to know what drops from there or what kind of enemies you face to understand a point of farming it)
Quests are supposed to be done in single playthrough, you're not supposed to go to restock in town while questing.. You do that while reaching new towns or while going back to them to return quests
I would love to see you make a series experiencing PoE 1 for the first time. There will be a lot of headaches involved with learning it, but the game is very worth it once it clicks, and you get to end game!
This was a really interesting take.
Path of exile for me is a sandbox game where i am able to create really unique characters.
For example in the first game there is a spell that summons a zombie in the air that falls to the ground, slaps enemies and dies. Through different shenanigans i was able to summon about 60/second automatically after casting a few times. So i altered the spell that summoned a single zombie to basically a rain of zombies which looked hilarious and was actually pretty strong. After that i equiped an armour that that gives enemies around me lighting resistance equal to mine and went for -150 lightning resistance on my character. Then i shifted some of the lightning damage i take to another element and converted the physical damage lf my zombies to lightning.
These are the things that are not possible in other games and really excite me. The combat after finishing such a build was basically press a button and run around and the graphics in poe 1 are pretty bad. So when poe2 keeps the depth and build shinanigans while also providing better combat and graphics i will have a great time with it.
I love your content and now your reaching out to other games I play. This is awesome!
There was a character creation system in the latest Street Fighter and that's a game where you're gonna be spending 99.999% of the time playing as the existing characters but it was awesome making my himbo legend
the area's change so that that mobs spawn so you can grind gear on solo self found jimmy
as someone with over 5000 hours in POE1, I totally agree with your take weapon type hassle and area/zone resetting. I hope the dev got a chance to listen to the feedback as well. These are almost non issue for people delving deep into the game already. I plan on playing POE2 campaign really slowly and explore at my own pace. The zone resetting after 10 or 15 minutes outside of it kills the mood when there are multiple exist point. Like you explore majority of the area, portal back to town to organize stash, talk to NPC for their whole dialog or do some house errands and the story campaign area are now reset and randomized again.
It's very interesting to hear someone talk about PoE from a new player perspective. It never occurred to me that some people might want to create their own character in this sort of ARPG.
As someone who has 1000s of hours in PoE it's super interesting to learn how a new player sees things I just take for granted now. Hope they address the issues such that we get more new players!
this is a fascinating video, as someone working in game design. even the ways you posed questions and restated the interview answers got me thinking about the biases people have when they come into a new game or a whole new genre that has decades of baggage on it.
i could talk your ear off about so many of the things discussed in this video, like what ARPG has come to mean, the idea of "endgame" and leveling here as opposed to a game like wow, etc., but i'll save you the time and just say thanks for giving us your fresh perspective, it was enlightening!
As a PoE veteran with over 3000 hours in the first game. I actually agree with your weapon take, I think it would make more sense to have you able to equip the weapon. Then have you just do an auto attack and instead of your skills and have a nice noticeable tool tip pop up that tells you that you have to use a different weapon to use your skills again. I am really happy you got to fly out and play the game. I would love to see a video of you trying Path Of Exile 1 if you have the time. The game can be really overwhelming but it's so deep and really fun!
I feel like your criticisms were very fair. As a PoE 1 player I just know which skills work with which weapons, but this cannot be asked of a new player, especially when GGG's stated goal is to make PoE 2 more accessible than PoE 1 was.
Really glad GGG is inviting experienced players that are new to POE/ARPGs to their tests. Having you there is so much more valuable than having another POE veteran or game journo there. Subbing to see your coverage of the game.
I've taught at least 4 of my friends PoE 1. That hardest concept to get across to new players is that 99% of items that drop are useless.
"Ooooh a new weapon!"
"No that's dogshit. We'll upgrade later."
"Is this a good platebody?"
"No, it's an ilvl 2 white body."
"But it has double the armour of my current body."
"2 x 0 is still 0."
It's very unintuitive. I hate it because I WANT my friends to get excited for the game, and repeatedly telling them everything they find early game is irrelevant just snuffs out their excitement.
Freaking love that they had you out as a new player. Awesome synopsis, hope you end up really enjoying your next foray into the game!
The reason areas are regenerated is because it's working like the endgame mapping system. In poe the world is not supposed to be percistent, and you're not supposed to discover and keep track of the world. It's more like an ever changing ocean, and you go in and out of areas and you expect them to regenerate because you want to syphon wealth from them again and again, and if they looked the same that would become incredibly stale real fast..
As you reach the endgame you realize there's no point in discovery, it's more like you're shaking a box of lego pieces, and then you see what you can do with that, then you shake it again. And oh BOY how many lego pieces there are to play with later on, poe engame is truly a magical experience if you're into that kind of thing.
About the loot drops, you're not supposed to pick everything up and sell it, the drops are more like a bazaar that you look through and only pick up what you need personally. It's about knowing what you need at what point of the game, and ignoring the junk. Poe1 has this issue 20 times worse, towards the end of the campain there would be so many items that would take up half the screen. In endgame your game will take a performance hit from the number of trash loot on the ground, which doesn't even fit your screen, and EVERYONE is using a loot filter to filter out 99.8% (not exaggerating) of all the drops. This is way better in poe2, and they've also added a system that tells you how valuable an item is before you pick it up and identify it, which also helps a ton.
But yeah, in poe1 at least you learn real fast that there's no point in picking up trash, mostly because there's little value to be gained for selling them, so it's better to just ignore it and march forward into higher level content which will eventually start paying some good dough. Actually the main solution is to just filter out normal and magic items, and only see the rares that drop, and then only check the rares that can be used by your build. But it makes sense that filtering doesn't happen by default, because there should be a crafting system that you could take advantage of really early to turn the normal trash drops into rares, if you know what you're doing. A lot of pain points in poe are actually opportunities for experienced players to apply their knowledge. Which feels super rewarding once you're experienced, and to feel this satisfaction the experience of when you're a newbie has to suck to a degree.
REALLY enjoying your perspective on this. Very interesting!
I think what you went through should happen more often. Usually game devs will only invite people known for their involvement in their games. Inviting someone brand new is a good thing in my opinion. Instead of having an echo chamber effect because everyone has the same level of experience, the devs can hear feedback from genuinely different perpectives.
12:30 - in previous game if you stay in town for more then 5-10 min it resets previously visited location
So it was cool to hear, even funnnier now that they released a recap and at least among the other interviews listed, everyone else seemed to be at least experienced in PoE and ARPG if not full on old veterans with warscars. Love to see it.
Hey man, I've watched your video on reaction of polish hardcore poe player Piotr Maciejczak. I've also never played poe before, have 0 hours on this game, but I'm giga hyped on poe 2 playin on ps5. Thx for ur perspective. Respect o/
Great to see a new players perspective. Thanks for making it
Totally agree about the weapon changing thing... they don't have that in og PoE so it's odd that they have it here, I imagine they'll fix that.
Totally disagree about character creation though. Did you not play The Witcher? I suppose to some extent I don't really go in for character creation that much, but also I think there's something special about having a character ready-made, because you might end up with something that you wouldn't normally choose.
The Witcher is and extremely story driven rpg with lore and a world that revolves around specific characters. You could have a character creator in poe and it wouldn’t impact the story in literally any way because your character has no absolutely personality, you are just the exile. Every single character is exactly the same in regard to story progression, so it wouldn’t make any difference if the player got to create their own. Whereas Geralt has a very specific personality, alignment, motivations, back story, etc. which are essential to the story and his interactions with the other characters within the world, and the game wouldn’t work if you just plopped a random player generated character in there.
Sure, but I would still say that it's nice to not have every game being like, you can be whoever you want to be, and instead saying this is who you are.
Also, something I've been thinking about is that it might be nice if PoE had leagues that go into backstory. I think would be preferable to a character creation screen.
@@Nephske Id say most rpgs don't have character customization, they are mostly story driven games with set characters.
@@99range92def okay and? What on earth does that have to do with the fact that the player character in PoE is not a named set character?
@@Nephske Well jimmy seemed to imply that the fact arpg has "rpg" in it that should mean character customization when if day only a very small minority of rpg's have it.
Look how much effort GGG is putting into making this game experience is both good for new players and POE veterans. They are attacking this from all angles to make sure POE 2 is as perfect as it can be at launch. Also as a 10 year POE vet myself, it is so nice to hear the true new player experience going into POE 2, we all know the new player experience in POE 1 isn't ideal so its nice they're taking people like this to get their feedback and make it as good as possible. Thank you GGG
In PoE 1, maps would have a timer that started the moment you left. If you returned before the timer was done, you'd go back into that same map, with all the parts taht you've explored still explored. If the timer ran out, the map would be deleted and you'd start over.
You *could* control-click a portal or gateway and choose which version of that map you wanted to return to, or start a new one entirely.
they need to look at the GW2 weapon skill UI. it works almost exactly the way you asked for. equip new weapon, click on skill that is greyed out, see list of usable skills in that slot with the equipped weapon, choose skill, keep playing.
Honestly the people that work at GGG are really amazing and chill, and ofcourse that also means mentioning Chris Wilson. They really respect and know their community, its refreshing to see.
Really glad they let you check it out. Hope PoE2 is gonna be as good as PoE1 ofcourse.
It will be 5-10x bigger, mark my words. It's far far far more casual than PoE1 in terms of complexity(needless complexity sometimes IMO, the BLOAT!).
It will absolutely be grabbing a major portion of the more casual ARPG players from other games.
@@PherPhur Yea, they specifically set out to reduce the complexity while still maintaining the depth of the game.
And someone who barely scratched the first one your perspective as a newcomer was really valuable. Definitely looking forward to trying this game out :)
as someone who have played path of exile for over 1600 hours. (casually)
there is one thing i would add that you might have not realized, but most people who play this game. the way its built with leagues in mind, you play the campaign for the first time which is great. but the only thing that interest the majority of the player based. is making this funny/broken/stupid ass builds. its the exact oppisate of wow. the story is pretty deep but the players dont give 2 shits about it. they want to reach the end game so they can put their points find these unique weapons and wipe the screen in 1 click while you keep running.
i wasnt a fan of that. i liked reading the story, and i liked making builds that are funny or thematic and make the most of them instead of following the metas. but after you finish the story once, twice, three times? even as a casual player you want that story to end so you can try the good shit cause you have to restart everytime.
imagine making a new runescape account every couple of months.. but theres no skilling or challanges like tileman, you are just trying rushing to do inferno cape every time, the only difference is you first do it as an archer. then you maybe try mage, then you kinda liked mage so you are trying to build for ancient magic build and only casting blood spells. or maybe you like doing guthen set to see your hp go up and down,
i cant speak for poe2, but poe 1 was treated as, reach the end game.
also also, poe 1 max level was 100, and you are still doing story till level 65-70, so even these guys getting to 25 didnt get to the good stuff.
We already make new runescape accounts every couple of months in leagues or dmm. And each time it has a unique spin on it to make it worth playing.
PoE has that too. Each league comes with a shit ton of gameplay changes and content updates, but most importantly it comes with a new league mechanic you interact with at the very start of the game. And that league mechanic alters the way you progress through the story if you wish to engage with it. Given that most of us skip it as it slows us down, but I don't see that as a flaw in the game but it's because we are too experienced and can do the campaign with our eyes closed. But if i were to reroll in HC for example with no practice, I'd be abusing the shit out of the league mechanic to get power upgrades to cheese the campaign.
So both runescape and poe have similar type leagues.
@@MyNameIsSalo There's actually a big overlap with poe players and runescape players. I know for a fact several prominent poe streamers play runescape on the side. Like Tytykiller, Zizaran, Steelmage, etc.
@@MyNameIsSalo yea i agree, i play a lot of ssf (solo self found) and ruthless because it spice things up a lot, and the leveling goes pretty slow and its fun when you play in these modes, i imagine HC have a simular experience. i just wanted to give some insight about the whole "get to the end game" mentality we experience. tho im not at the endgame on runescape, so i explaining it is a bit tough..
I play a UIM and even I think that inventory management is a nightmare. 60 inventory spaces, or so you'd think... until you realize health potions take up 2 inventory slots, and axes take up 8 and shields take up 6 and it's not like a weight system, where an axe and a shield would be 14/60 inventory... oh no... they also have to fit in your inventory and there's only 5 rows. If you pick up a 2h axe now the only thing you can fit in those columns is 2 individual single-slot items like the tedious fragments of "crafting" items.
Jonathon said he wants players who never played it so they can improve the new player experience. That is probably why you were invited.
the tool tip with the skills and weapons is actually in poe 1 although the tool tip is like 20 times longer
It's funny how there are so many things I take for granted after 3/4 years of ARPG that are in fact quirks that would seem weird to anyone. Though the weapon restriction seems backward because they should just grey out the skills instead of blocking the weapon
"there's too much loot!"
And I'm like: there's considerably less loot than I expected. In PoE1 it's like this but multiple times
A lot of these takes are basically "I've never played an ARPG before" takes, but that's exactly why they invited you, to get the impressions from people not already heavily invested in the game. Been a fan of By Release and Gary Gilbert for years, as well as PoE, so what a blast this video was.
Skill (Gem) Issue
(the weapon skill gems are locked to the weapon type they're designed/animated for. In future builds skill they've said the gem selection from the uncut gems will be organized by weapon type instead of by class, to make this more clear)
Interesting. I've watched tons of videos about PoE 2 and you're the first person I've seen mention the issue with weapons. I guess that's why they invited you (a non ARPG player), so they could catch the issues that ARPG veterans don't notice or care about. They did say they are trying to make the game appeal to a much wider audience than the first one.
it's cause its a non-issue and anyone who's played the first game, (or any arpg) will be used to having skills be dependant on having specific gear types equipped. all of his issues with the game were really just problems with using a controller for your input method in a game REALLY designed to be played via mnk
Isn't an issue
@@hem9483 If they're trying to make the game appear to a wider audience, then the system should bear in mind people who are unfamiliar with ARPGs. It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to want more visual clarity on
it is interesting thinking about an ARPG in RPG terms , like the persistent world levels you were expecting. It shows how different the 2 genres are (in their traditional forms) despite them sharing the name. The procedurally generated areas become key to the infinite grind at 'end game ' in ARPGs where as RPGs are expected to be linear. For the same reasons story isn't the main focus of an APRG, the RP in ARPGs is more the character building / progression, with the combat power fantasy being the focus.
it never said you can't equip the sword, it said you can't use X skill with swords cause they are mace abilities. it says so on the skill when you pick it. also something they are aware and intend to clarify in the future.
the "require club" tool tip when u have a sword equipped is a thing in poe1. Guess they wanted to make it clearer for you before you equip it ? just not quite there yet.
And every character can hold any weapon. and you can pick any skill . And you could've picked a sword skill next time you had the chance.
it's just that in that moment of the game you had only picked mace skills.
You could still unequip your gems and swing the sword around. the game tells you to. just doesn't do it for you apparently.
I'd assume , skills > hover over gem> unequip?
it is more complicated than it needed to be for sure. and that's poe.
They are trying to get better based on feedback. and that's why these playtests are for
You suffered so others won't have to.
Cool video always nice to see the perspective of new players here.
Thats so different, i had a problem grasping the "new arpg player" and what ggg was trying to reach with their changes, when you talked about the skills and weapons, what i thought was "well youre doing a club build, dont expect to change to a sword and it just work out" thats the main difference about poe and regular rpgs, its refreshing to see new players pov
It's cool seeing poe 2 from the perspective of a new player in the genre
Very interesting perspective!!! I'm so absorbed by the fact that you never actually see your cactacter (its just a flury of flashing shining effects, the only way you know thats you is because thats the middle of the screen). Interesting seeing the whole experience from someone so far outside of the genre
One thing that might detract them from making character creation is that a sizeable portion of their MTX is cosmetics. In the POE ecosystem to date, the campaign is generally something you can kind of fly through to play end game maps which to me has a more interesting story AND where you will generate all of your wealth and really get into tuning your build! Hope you do stick through a play through on launch!
I literally never watch entire length review of any sort... I watched this entire video and loved it. The whole new player experience and how real the responses were was amazing!
K. I LOVED this video! I loved what you had to say, of course, but you make really good videos. You made me laugh and even yelled, "Ya! Preach!" at the screen sometimes. Awesome job.
the game is still a work in progress j1mmy im sure they will add that change, its why testing is there for feedback XD
the Fog of war thing, the first game after leaving the area for around 10 minutes would reset, (you cant hang around in town for too long, its so you can farm areas for loot etc, the first game would let you reset the area manually too, I've not played poe2 but played over 10,000 hours of poe1
Skill tree RESPEC is done by spending Gold (dropped from the Monsters). The amount of gold required to respec increases with Level parallelly
I hope they take your advice in regards to weapons to heart. Having fresh eyes on a genre can be really revealing on what actually takes away from the experience rather than being a good experience overall.
They probably will. It works like that in PoE 1. If you have stats to equip the weapon - you will do it but it will turn off skills. I really don't understand what they were thinking making it the other way around.
We don't know how they'll do it in PoE2 yet, but we don't really "create" custom maps in endgame, we simply take pre-existing map layouts which we add modifiers on top to get a finetuned experience running them. Although it isn't an itemized thing either, we use consumables to generate a map we run ourselves. (there's also a whole passive skill tree, just for them maps)
But, circling back to your point about character customization...We can mention the crafting system which (few years ago already, time flies) used to be criticized as it isn't a true crafting system since we simply take a base item and add modifiers to it. Making it more akin to an enchant system if anything.
So, now, finally, how does character "customization" work ? You guessed it. We take an archetype to which we add modifiers through the passive skill tree and items.
Pretty sure all the game systems work in a similar fashion.
On the other hand, when Jonathan said character customization would be expensive, it isn't really a monetary pespective. Dollars come and go, at the end of the day either ten or ten millions is as irrelevant of a price as can be, granted you have the money at hand and/or a mean to generate it.
But labor/time is a very finite resource especially on a league to league basis which is a very tight schedule. PoE has had the biggest and most frequent patches for the longest time. This game is so ahead of the curve it's not even funny. There is a wiki for the game, which lists out all the leagues and links to all their specific pages listing what they added to the game if you're curious.
And, for real, Skyrim used to be (stoopidly) compared to witcher 3 a lot back then. And the fact skyrim had a custom character was the very reason this comparison is irrelevant. Because having a story adapting itself to whatever your character may be is down right impossible, so you end up with a halfbaked story with little to no stake, so trash you can reasonably question if there even is a story to begin with. Or rather.. A story your character has any business into, except for being NPCs lackey, in their story.
I don't care much about narrative elements in an arpg, myself, but it's kinda irritating to see it used as an argument for something that only end up destroying it. Nothing against you, but that wasn't well thought out at all.
Thanks for making this video. The more I hear sincere, honest reviews like this, the more respect i have for GGG.
Yo, so please please send this vid to GGG - this feedback is so so very much what they want, need and will love. Its so honest and pure hearted!
Actually, the PoE 2 skill tree is much bigger than the PoE 1 skill tree. PoE 1 has 1325 nodes. We don't know the exact number of nodes on the PoE 2 tree but the trailer says it has 1500 passives.
The odds that me and a mate played PoE for the first time ever like last week, only for jimmy to post this. Good timing, good vid
i've got a best mate works on this game, crazy to see Jimbo the himbo covering it.
Awesome dude glad you enjoyed, good video. you're looking well.
Sending love from australia.
commenting so jimmy with play more POE
Super fun to hear your thoughts on the game even though you have no experience with the genre. As for skill gems and your confusion with weapons, skill gems DO tell you what weapon type you need to wield to use them. From there, you can either switch your skill gem if you want to use a different weapon type (going from mace to dagger would make Ground Slam unusable), or upgrade amongst the same weapon type. This was also a restriction in the first game. All of this to say that weapons do not grant you abilities, skill gems do. You can switch to any weapon you want to use anytime, but this will restrict the skills you can use. With the new "lock" in place, you have to remove the skill gems first to switch weapon though
Thanks for new player feedback it important for us as community to get best game that devs could do
Its good that you were playing with all the mishaps. Its very good feedback for them.