Using Kefir as Culture- Our Attempt at Natural Cheesemaking
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2019
- There's been a lot of buzz recently about using kefir as a cheese starter. I know many people who make and enjoy kefir.
I am not one of them.
If it works for you, wonderful. We will not be pursuing this method further.
Here is a link to the book from the cheesemaker who pioneered this method:
amzn.to/2MZdPiu - The Art of Natural Cheesemaking by David Asher
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License: CC BY (creativecommons.org/licenses/b...) - Навчання та стиль
Using kefir is a tradition that's a few thousand years old everywhere in the "old world.". To fashionable moderns and their flare for narcissistic self improvement rituals that's a no go. Asher's book is revelatory if one wants to get cheese making right. Nonetheless the goat raising info here is inspiring.
My kefir is great. Nice and thick. I make mozzarella, sour cream ,cottage cheese great stuff. Also use whey for picking vegetables.
My results using kefir were erratic, probably due to my equally erratic care of it. I simply stopped using it and have relied solely upon the natural cultures in my raw milk and haven't looked back. I've been following the recipes from natural cheese making (minus the kefir) and been getting the most amazing cheeses - with changing salt levels, temperature and humidity all encouraging selection for the culture I want to dominate in each cheese.
I will point out that I'm obsessive with keeping my whole milking process clean - I hand milk into a bucket with a drum sieve nestled in the top with a lid and everything is sterilized with boiling water and the first few squirts are saved for the Maremma. Once I'm done the milk is filtered a second time as I pour it into still warm sterilized glass bottles and sealed. I've found that my milk has stayed good for ten days sealed like this and haven't tested for longer yet.
I've had considerable success with kefir following directions in David Asher's book.
Ive used kefir as my culture for asiago and Camembert, both with great results. The bloomy rind i added penicillium candida when i added kefir. You might try using the kefir a little younger. Mine was less than a day on the grains and hadn't got much thicker. You probably overdosed your cheese, lol
bagbeard I was hoping the yeasty quality of the kefir would work itself out when made into cheese. It didn’t. 😞
Wow, how do you made camembert? I'm interested in making that cheese with kefir
Thank you for this (and for your channel which I love)! I wonder if it has to do with the "grains." Several years ago I did kefir and loved it, but eventually let it die. A few years ago I obtained new "grains" and tried to start it up again but after two months of efforts my batches were chronically disgusting and yeasty (despite all troubleshooting). It made me wonder if I had a false memory of loving the first attempts, but I don't think so. Anyway, it was enough hassle that I don't really care to try a third time :).
Would you please make a little video about your pots used in cheesemaking? I'm trying to find a pot for an 8 gallon batch but there are so many options (and yours looks like it has a drain like for beermaking). Also, do you ever use a double boiler... it looks like you're usually directly on the heat?
It's interesting you share that. When I first got these grains they were way more stinky than they are now. Over time they have changed in texture and lost the dirty sock notes. Now they smell more like dairy champagne. I still don't care for the stuff but it's a sure cry better than what I started with.
Chase and I have made note to do a vid on the pot and the thermometer we use. You can search a 10 gal brew kettle with spigot on Amazon and find a similar model for about $130. Get the one with the triple ply bottom.
I don't have a water bath big enough to hold this much milk so I raise the temp slowly over the gas stove stirring often.
I don’t know if you would even get this message/question, but it would really be helpful to me. When making Paneer cheese and using Kiefer as the curd maker, wouldn’t you wait till the milk has cooled enough so it won’t kill the organisms in the Kiefer before adding it? Your thoughts please. The book instruction has Kiefer as an option instead of lemon juice or vinegar. So I thought why would I want to kill all the bacteria in my Kiefer? I hope this could be answered. Thank you so much. I like your channel.
Hi Kristin
I've started making quark (curds) with Kefir, basically letting it ferment enough for the curds and whey to fully separate. If I don't first heat the milk to the pasteurization point, then cool back to 77 deg, it never forms the curds. Everything else is the same (1 pack per quart, yogurt setting in my instant pot, 36 hours). If I hear it first, perfect results every time, but takes me an extra few hours.
Any ideas why heating the milk first is so crucial?
Tell me more about this, give me a step by step of what you're doing.
Thanks Kristin the Brave! It is great that you provided the results of this experiment for us.
Also interesting to hear the comments of others who have had success with it.
The yeast component bothers me in kefir for cheese. One of my does had milk with some yeast contamination I think, and brined cheeses would expand and float. They still taste perfectly fine, and the fine bubbles do collapse again, but that's not the texture one expects! Have you ever had this problem? Any clues how to treat the doe to eliminate this?
Ruby Gray I think that’s where I get stuck. Interestingly, the cheese didn’t bubble up even though the kefir is slightly effervescent. I have had a few cheeses puff over the years. Several from a pack of contaminated culture.
My guess is your doe has a case of sub clinical mastitis. The pigs get blown cheeses here. The puffing can be caused by potentially dangerous bacteria. Once I figured out which doe it was, I’d treat her for mastitis.
Hi,just found your chanel and I would like to ask a question. I buy raw goats milk from a farm near me for the past few months. The milk is put into plastic bottles that contained water the litre bottles that you buy your water in at the supermarket. Well the last 2 litres that I bought when I went to use them and shake up before using I stopped as I noticed that there was an orange coloured deposit at the bottom . When i went back I told her and she looked at the bottles and said that she did not know what it was and that was that no further information. She said that if it had been pink like it could have been a little blood that was drawn when milking but the orange colour she said I just don't know. what I am worried about is that my 2 little dogs drunk a litttle before I realised that the deposit was there. I buy this raw milk for to make my kefir and now I am afraid to buy it now. The little dogs were not sick at all,or tummy upset,nothing at all. But I am still worried about it. Can you tell me if you have ever had this problem? Should the raw milk be filtered?I don't think she does but not sure and should it be frozen before use. Is raw milk safe for humans to drink ?or should it be boiled? Thanking you
You're supplier is right. A small orange ring at the bottom is usually blood settling out. There are various reasons for this. The one I get at least once a year it seems, is from a burst blood vessel from new milkers at their udders expand to hold all this milk. You would be amazed at how much tissue grows in the space of several days or week!
Occasionally, one of the does will injure her teats on brush or something in the pasture. During machine milking, those scabs can break open and get into the milk. I try to be very mindful of this and immediately remove the inflation if the scab should break. However, machine milking is much easier on such injuries than hand milking.
Finally, it's possible for blood to come from mastitis. Usually, this is accompanied by snotty, mucus deposits in the bottom of the jar.
Milk from either of the first two scenarios is safe. It's unfortunate when that happens but really no different than a medium rare steak. Blood from mastitis could possibly be harmful. In my experience, blood settling is usually from new milkers with expanding udders. I hope this helps.
@@HammockHavenFarm Thanking you so very much for answering and explaining.I understand now thanks to you what it could have been. Many thanks.
wow. nice to know what stuff is in the bottom of the jar on occasion. thanks
🧡💯👍👍
Can't we sundry the grains and use them later, instead of fermentation in milk?
To me kefir smells like dirty socks! I can't do it yuck.
Angela Shurtleff I kind of agree. Interestingly, over time my culture has lost some of the stinky sock notes and just smells more like beer. Still not what I’m going for in cheese.
Those were the natural yeasts and active vitamins. Kefir has an amazing past. Russia and Middle East have used it for. You need to go back to basics. :(