Thank you for that, I really appreciate hearing alternative ideas, as opposed to the general consensus. There is no doubt that we will have understood some things incorrectly. This is evident from the many opposing views among the church. The church is still divided on many issues and yet we ought to be unified. This means there is more to learn, discern and understand. I shall now put my Berean cap on and read Romans again, with this position in mind.
The popular A,B,Cs of salvation as espoused by Farag and others is very misleading as it adds Roman’s 10-9 to salvation from Hell. Isn’t that in essence adding works to simply believing and if so nullifying saving faith? I hope it is not so.
I'm curious if Zane Hodges is the first to come to this conclusion about Romans or if any other commentator historic or modern have the same view. Thanks
If I’m understanding what he’s saying the people Roman’s 1 18 -32 are saved believers those people in those verses don’t seem saved eternally am I. Missing something here ??
Romans chapter 10 is Paul in the middle of explaining how Israel missed it. But you're right, it is saved from the wrath to come: their 70th week. We see in Rev 14 that 144,000 of them will be found worthy to escape GT as the MotB is being implemented.
Summary of Romans. God is angry with man’s unrighteousness and ungodliness right now and here. The gospel is the power of God for deliverance from this wrath because it reveals the righteousness of God which man lacks. It is this righteousness of God ie faith is counted as righteousness or glory of the father that resurrects a spiritually dead man-justification/regeneration and keeps him alive-walk in newness of life. Simply put our message is Jesus is the Giver of righteousness (gift of righteousness) The causes of the wrath has been dealt with by God himself. Justification and sanctification has nothing to do with our behavior or works. Both are simply of faith.
Johns gospel says that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ. Just look at Acts that was what they were preaching. We now have the whole NT so we deduce that the Christ is the giver of eternal life or righteousness. So when Paul says believe on the Lord Jesus Christ he is saying believe that Jesus is the Christ. Jesus himself said if you don’t believe I am he you will die in your sins. He is the Christ of God whether any person believes that or not
I’m very happy. You are asking the essential question. What does the Christ mean. Nobody knows at the point of believe. The believe is born of God ie the implanted word. You just hear Jesus is the Christ and you believe and is the truth you believed. That is why it says our faith is born of God. But having believed you will learn or know what you believed that Jesus is the giver of righteousness or eternal life.Don’t rule out the the divine perspective. Salvation is of the lord. That is why the NT speaks of election in countless verses
When Jesus said at the tomb of Lazarus come forth he was speaking to a dead man who could not hear or understand him. But his will ie come forth was done. They all shall swiftly obey thy will peace be still. Whether you understand the gospel or not if he says live you will live
I understand what you are saying. My point is that there are two sides to all this. Man has a responsibility to believe but he cannot believe unless God gives faith. Remember Peters confession- thou art the Christ- Jesus reply is flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you. Election and human free will are both clearly taught in the Bible. But in our circle (free grace) we tend to downplay election in favor of free will . This is clearly not healthy. The fact that we cannot reconcile the seeming contradictions is of no consequence. We simply believe both
John 3:16 leads to John 5:24 everlasting life for believing the word of God, before and aside from the Cross. Ephesians 2:8 "saved" is only baptism saved from past sins.
@freegraceau Basically Ephesians 2:1-3 describes those who were dead in their sins, but have been baptised with the Spirit by the grace of God the Father, together with Christ in the Church as described in 2:11-22. 2:10 tells us why, for good works, which are described in detail in chapters 4-6. This is the point of baptism by the Father, to reconcile us in the church with access to eternal life lost by Adam, as "saved" describes purging of sins already committed. I have a Ytube video 'Ephesians 2:9. Not of works? #32 Myths in so-called Christianity' that includes this argument. And controlling all doctrine of the epistles of the apostles is that their Great Commission is baptism.
@@haydenlbray "saved" is part 1 of salvation, the Eastern Orthodox Church say "I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved". Baptism saves from past sins. OSAS can be true through keeping your profession of faith in sanctification, for justification.
Bob you have stumbled on something I did some years ago, and found Romans 5-8 is only baptism. I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for NT truth.
"saved" is not salvation, saved is saved from condemnation from Adam, there is no condemnation for those baptised in Christ, under grace with hope of eternal life.
![Romans: The Man and the Message (Romans 1:1) [Audio Only]](/img/n.gif)
Great message! Thank you for the overview of this book!
Thank you Bob and GES, it goes to show that we all can continue to learn ! Blessings
Awesome message! Thanks for posting! 😊
Thanks Bob that was very helpful
Thank you for that, I really appreciate hearing alternative ideas, as opposed to the general consensus.
There is no doubt that we will have understood some things incorrectly.
This is evident from the many opposing views among the church.
The church is still divided on many issues and yet we ought to be unified.
This means there is more to learn, discern and understand.
I shall now put my Berean cap on and read Romans again, with this position in mind.
The popular A,B,Cs of salvation as espoused by Farag and others is very misleading as it adds Roman’s 10-9 to salvation from Hell. Isn’t that in essence adding works to simply believing and if so nullifying saving faith? I hope it is not so.
Does anyone know where this took place? And when?
Bayside Community Church at 3333 Bayshore Blvd. Tampa, Florida 33629 on November 24, 2024
I'm curious if Zane Hodges is the first to come to this conclusion about Romans or if any other commentator historic or modern have the same view. Thanks
If I’m understanding what he’s saying the people Roman’s 1 18 -32 are saved believers those people in those verses don’t seem saved eternally am I. Missing something here ??
In my teaching "saved" is baptised into the church reconciled to God, having the hope of salvation if they live by faith, all not of faith is sin.
Romans chapter 10 is Paul in the middle of explaining how Israel missed it. But you're right, it is saved from the wrath to come: their 70th week. We see in Rev 14 that 144,000 of them will be found worthy to escape GT as the MotB is being implemented.
Summary of Romans.
God is angry with man’s unrighteousness and ungodliness right now and here.
The gospel is the power of God for deliverance from this wrath because it reveals the righteousness of God which man lacks.
It is this righteousness of God ie faith is counted as righteousness or glory of the father that resurrects a spiritually dead man-justification/regeneration and keeps him alive-walk in newness of life.
Simply put our message is Jesus is the Giver of righteousness (gift of righteousness)
The causes of the wrath has been dealt with by God himself.
Justification and sanctification has nothing to do with our behavior or works. Both are simply of faith.
Johns gospel says that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ. Just look at Acts that was what they were preaching. We now have the whole NT so we deduce that the Christ is the giver of eternal life or righteousness. So when Paul says believe on the Lord Jesus Christ he is saying believe that Jesus is the Christ. Jesus himself said if you don’t believe I am he you will die in your sins. He is the Christ of God whether any person believes that or not
I’m very happy. You are asking the essential question. What does the Christ mean. Nobody knows at the point of believe. The believe is born of God ie the implanted word. You just hear Jesus is the Christ and you believe and is the truth you believed. That is why it says our faith is born of God. But having believed you will learn or know what you believed that Jesus is the giver of righteousness or eternal life.Don’t rule out the the divine perspective. Salvation is of the lord. That is why the NT speaks of election in countless verses
When Jesus said at the tomb of Lazarus come forth he was speaking to a dead man who could not hear or understand him. But his will ie come forth was done. They all shall swiftly obey thy will peace be still. Whether you understand the gospel or not if he says live you will live
I understand what you are saying. My point is that there are two sides to all this. Man has a responsibility to believe but he cannot believe unless God gives faith. Remember Peters confession- thou art the Christ- Jesus reply is flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you. Election and human free will are both clearly taught in the Bible. But in our circle (free grace) we tend to downplay election in favor of free will . This is clearly not healthy. The fact that we cannot reconcile the seeming contradictions is of no consequence. We simply believe both
Let me digress a bit and ask you what do you think this means-he who abides in him doth not sin
John 3:16 leads to John 5:24 everlasting life for believing the word of God, before and aside from the Cross. Ephesians 2:8 "saved" is only baptism saved from past sins.
Prove that Ephesians 2:8 is baptism salvation.
@freegraceau Basically Ephesians 2:1-3 describes those who were dead in their sins, but have been baptised with the Spirit by the grace of God the Father, together with Christ in the Church as described in 2:11-22. 2:10 tells us why, for good works, which are described in detail in chapters 4-6.
This is the point of baptism by the Father, to reconcile us in the church with access to eternal life lost by Adam, as "saved" describes purging of sins already committed.
I have a Ytube video 'Ephesians 2:9. Not of works? #32 Myths in so-called Christianity' that includes this argument.
And controlling all doctrine of the epistles of the apostles is that their Great Commission is baptism.
@ so saved does mean receiving eternal life then? You’re just favouring different verbiage.
@@haydenlbray "saved" is part 1 of salvation, the Eastern Orthodox Church say "I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved". Baptism saves from past sins.
OSAS can be true through keeping your profession of faith in sanctification, for justification.
@ baptism doesn’t do anything as far as salvation or sanctification.
Bob you have stumbled on something I did some years ago, and found Romans 5-8 is only baptism. I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for NT truth.
"saved" is not salvation, saved is saved from condemnation from Adam, there is no condemnation for those baptised in Christ, under grace with hope of eternal life.