Lights comboing into light spire is a must. It’s not OP, and needing a windstock or OD spire feels horrible. Gief had similar issues season 1 with needing to burn meter for his basic combos and they fixed it.
@@CrystalMang0I just meant they gave him headbutt hellstab lariat without needing to burn meter now. I don’t think giving Lily light into light spire would be OP given the damage reduction.
El Chakotay I'm super late but congrats on combo breaker. Your ability to dissect your decisions is great and clearly what makes you a top level player. Keep it up brother.
What is Capcom afraid of? Their approach to balance is very confusing to me sometimes like they intentionally don’t want some characters to be good. Zangief got buffed to the moon and back but characters like Lily and Manon barely get anything and are arguably nerfed. Why?
You clearly don't know what the buffs do for Lily and clearly you must not hear properly as the nerfs literally don't matter. One is a hurt ix nerf, another is simply more knock back because they buffed her level 1 speed so they didn't want that to combo from kid screen just like before, but it works in the corner. Like not the nerds mean nothing, the buffs are great
@@CrystalMang0 Do you hear properly? There’s a universal increase to scaling off lights which hurts Lily significantly since a lot of her combo routes do less damage now.
These are really good suggestions. I've been playing Lily for a few weeks, but I'm dropping her because her design quality is beta level, while most other characters are playing season 2. SF6 is a well designed machine overall, but there are a few rusty cogs that could use some love, like Lily and Manon.
I feel like because Lily's biggest weakness is defense, wakeup drive reversal was kinda a huge buff to her. I've also been getting a ton of mileage off of ending my combos in M condor wind. Both of those buffs feel great to me! I think the most impactful nerf though was the universal change to scaling off of light attacks. So strange that the changes they made to the system mechanics seem to have affected lily the most across the board!
I mean its just impossible to give her a lot of standardly good things because she has a 5 frame command grab that does great damage and a tackle that puts her in good oki or in a + situation enabling the command grab. Then they did that silly medium charge change setting up another command grab situation. Command grabs are absurdly powerful tools but its always a double edge sword. To justify them the characters they are attatched too either need to be slow, have a hard time getting in, or they end up just being low damage oki enablers. Lily got some gross disjointed buttons with a good way to engage granted she gets stocks with a great command grab so she became sort of the bizarro r mika giving up oki after her grabs and has to reengage but isn't having nearly as hard a time. Which kinda makes sense. You cant really have a mika or laura in this game, DR would put that style of grappler over the top. To get better general situations to any significant degree, she would have to give up something in her command grab or in her + frames situation of condors imo. I'm sure I'll get hate for saying it but thats just how I see it
I don’t disagree with you. I’m not against completely rebalancing the character and rounding out her strengths. I’d take a more nuanced consistent gameplan vs the straightforward volatile one she has now.
@@Evrybdygets1 Probably would be preferable at least on a competitive sense but its also nice having characters that are volatile and have outside the box gameplans.
Bottom 5 character potentially bottom 3 character in season 1 getting mostly nerfs is insane. All the other bottom tiers got some decent buffs so there's no way she's not bottom 1 now
they want her to be an entry level character to help baby in new players. It's a bad idea to have those in games anyways, because new players are going to struggle regardless, as there is so much that comes with getting better outside of a character's kit. So many characters can be played in a straightforward way when you start learning them, so I don't agree with having dumbed down characters, and then trying to make them competitively viable makes them cheesy, because their game-plan is still obvious to veteran players, but just becomes a knowledge/skill check. I think they need to start working on giving some of the bland characters some options for next season, so they aren't so easily read and shut down.
@@Eastra3 i think season 1 Honda is a better example of a character babying new players. She’s not popular because she is limited from a gameplay and combo perspective. Even compared to fellow grapplers like gief and manon.
@@dredayvon2724 I don't mean from a combo perspective, unless we are talking about them having multiple strong neutral moves with good damaging combos coming off them, like Chun li. That and having a legitimate mix-up game seem to differentiate most of the cast from the bottom tier. Marisa is also too straight forward, but her multiple super high dmg combos keep her from being at the bottom. I think most characters would become competitive if they had a decent mix-up game, or feints like DJ's sway. Manon has a feint, but she doesn't have enough of a bag for that feint to force someone to make a mistake. Obviously we have someone like Kimberly, who has everything I'm talking about, and she isn't high tier, but Manon and Lilly can start by making it to mid tier first, and giving them more ways to force mistakes and punish mistakes is the way. You see how Zangeif has a move that can counter kicks? What if they made some moves like that for Manon, and gave her more feints to bait someone into those counters. A grappler with counters makes sense.
It's the usual a character wins so they must be good or top tier specifically even. I just figured I would give my two cents as a solo Lily main since launch lol
@@ElChakotay bottom 3 being tournament viable is a good testament to the balance of the games mechanics. A good player like you can compete with a low tier. Still it's good you showed lily needs buffs even outside of invincible reversal, I loved the breakdown.
THEY NEED TO MAKE HER WIND CHARGE FASTER.. PERIOD! THAT WOULD MAKE A HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN HOW MUCH BETTER SHE COULD FIGHT.. OR CREDIT HER THE WIND CHARGE BEFORE THE ANIMATION ENDS..
At times im like why do i even have med buttons with her ngl.. Just want to try and poke with stand med and 9/10 times I'll eat a di for it. She's basicly lights and back or down heavy.. Makes me sad :(
I can only speak for myself but what I'd want for Lily are as follows 236K Condor Spire All windclad versions: Now Projectile Invuln Non-windclad OD verison: Now Projectile Invuln Windclad OD version: Late frames, Lily's hurtbox shrunk 623P Tomahawk Buster All Windclad versions: Now throw invuln f1-10 Windclad OD version: Now strike invuln f1-10 j.PP (Condor Dive) Windclad OD version: Hits without bouncing off, +1 on-block when hitting shins. Drive Guage cost when linking OD Tomahawk Buster into OD Condor Dive: 2 -> 1, matching Guille's Sonic Blade into Boom change
I’m nowhere near as good as you, but I’ve noticed that is a lot harder to win now with Lily. Yes, level one has gotten faster. It has become a bit helpful, but all the other routes of winning has been completely destroyed. I don’t do many combos, I don’t really know how to do the combos, But the things that I was able to do before, has stopped. Akuma, is a major problem. A lot of the other characters are the same way now, I’m low level. But before I was able to beat some of these people with no problem. Now, every fight is a struggle. Thanks brother for your recommendations and guide. I don’t know why they still cocky the number one Lily, for me, you’re the best. Keep it up, brother.🫡
Zangief was actually good in USF4, Mika was top tier in season 1 of SF5 then top 10 in season 3 & 4. Laura was top tier in season 2 of SFV. Grapplers have been good in more recent game times
Dude, we really need 1 comprehensive guide for Lily, not small guides with changes and stuff. Pressure how the mixup after the windsock condor spire works (when you are in and +1, what you do as buttons vs the command grab), what you are aiming at in the neutral, and so on.
I already made a post on here saying that I would do an updated Lily guide before I posted this video. I always do character overview videos when a balance patch releases for characters that I play.
I THINK A LOT OF PPL FORGET/DONT KNOW LILY CAN DELAY OR SPEED UP HER CONDOR DIVE.. IF YOUR OPPO ALWAYS CHECKS YOUR DIVE WITH AN ANTI AIR, JUST JUMP DELAY, AND AND THEN DIVE.. IF THEY LIKE TO CHECK YOU WITH DP, YOU CAN DO A SHORT JUMP TO QUICK DIVE, AND (HOPEFULLY) BEAT THEIR DP..
Hey chakotay is there anyway you can help me reach Master rank, im hard stuck in diamond 2, i dont know where to message you. You did respond one of my comments so im taking u up on the offer 😂😂
So they admit she only has one strong button, and nerf that one button while barely buffing the others lol
Bro calm down. It's just a hurtbox nerf bro.
@@CrystalMang0 what are you on about
@CrystalMang0 but why is the weakest character in the game getting nerfed at all?
The authority in Lily discussing new Lily tech? I'm there!
Lights comboing into light spire is a must. It’s not OP, and needing a windstock or OD spire feels horrible. Gief had similar issues season 1 with needing to burn meter for his basic combos and they fixed it.
They didn't fix that for gief comboing from his lights bro. He still needs drive rush for lights
@@CrystalMang0I just meant they gave him headbutt hellstab lariat without needing to burn meter now. I don’t think giving Lily light into light spire would be OP given the damage reduction.
El Chakotay I'm super late but congrats on combo breaker. Your ability to dissect your decisions is great and clearly what makes you a top level player. Keep it up brother.
I fucking LOVE Lily her gief and Manon are unbelievably fun in this game
What is Capcom afraid of? Their approach to balance is very confusing to me sometimes like they intentionally don’t want some characters to be good. Zangief got buffed to the moon and back but characters like Lily and Manon barely get anything and are arguably nerfed. Why?
You clearly don't know what the buffs do for Lily and clearly you must not hear properly as the nerfs literally don't matter. One is a hurt ix nerf, another is simply more knock back because they buffed her level 1 speed so they didn't want that to combo from kid screen just like before, but it works in the corner. Like not the nerds mean nothing, the buffs are great
@@CrystalMang0 Do you hear properly? There’s a universal increase to scaling off lights which hurts Lily significantly since a lot of her combo routes do less damage now.
Just started my lunch break, perfect timing
These are really good suggestions. I've been playing Lily for a few weeks, but I'm dropping her because her design quality is beta level, while most other characters are playing season 2.
SF6 is a well designed machine overall, but there are a few rusty cogs that could use some love, like Lily and Manon.
When the game was first released, it was plus on block. And she could backward-dive spire
I feel like because Lily's biggest weakness is defense, wakeup drive reversal was kinda a huge buff to her. I've also been getting a ton of mileage off of ending my combos in M condor wind. Both of those buffs feel great to me! I think the most impactful nerf though was the universal change to scaling off of light attacks. So strange that the changes they made to the system mechanics seem to have affected lily the most across the board!
I picked her up because of you, having a blast :D
Thanks for the guide. Just coming back for S2. Sad we didn't get much, but still gonna keep playing her till I hop to another fighting game again.
I mean its just impossible to give her a lot of standardly good things because she has a 5 frame command grab that does great damage and a tackle that puts her in good oki or in a + situation enabling the command grab. Then they did that silly medium charge change setting up another command grab situation.
Command grabs are absurdly powerful tools but its always a double edge sword. To justify them the characters they are attatched too either need to be slow, have a hard time getting in, or they end up just being low damage oki enablers.
Lily got some gross disjointed buttons with a good way to engage granted she gets stocks with a great command grab so she became sort of the bizarro r mika giving up oki after her grabs and has to reengage but isn't having nearly as hard a time.
Which kinda makes sense. You cant really have a mika or laura in this game, DR would put that style of grappler over the top. To get better general situations to any significant degree, she would have to give up something in her command grab or in her + frames situation of condors imo. I'm sure I'll get hate for saying it but thats just how I see it
I don’t disagree with you. I’m not against completely rebalancing the character and rounding out her strengths. I’d take a more nuanced consistent gameplan vs the straightforward volatile one she has now.
@@Evrybdygets1 Probably would be preferable at least on a competitive sense but its also nice having characters that are volatile and have outside the box gameplans.
Bottom 5 character potentially bottom 3 character in season 1 getting mostly nerfs is insane. All the other bottom tiers got some decent buffs so there's no way she's not bottom 1 now
Wtf are you talking about? She got mostly buffs like did you even read the patch notes? Sound real delusional bro
Don’t really understand what capcom’s goal is with lily. It’s like they don’t want her to be a fun and creative character.
they want her to be an entry level character to help baby in new players. It's a bad idea to have those in games anyways, because new players are going to struggle regardless, as there is so much that comes with getting better outside of a character's kit. So many characters can be played in a straightforward way when you start learning them, so I don't agree with having dumbed down characters, and then trying to make them competitively viable makes them cheesy, because their game-plan is still obvious to veteran players, but just becomes a knowledge/skill check. I think they need to start working on giving some of the bland characters some options for next season, so they aren't so easily read and shut down.
I understand capcom. Lily is high mobility grappler with the ability to force a 50/50 from almost full screen with OD clad condor.
@@moanasandford4029 sounds good on paper but doesn’t translate to her being a strong character in reality
@@Eastra3 i think season 1 Honda is a better example of a character babying new players. She’s not popular because she is limited from a gameplay and combo perspective. Even compared to fellow grapplers like gief and manon.
@@dredayvon2724 I don't mean from a combo perspective, unless we are talking about them having multiple strong neutral moves with good damaging combos coming off them, like Chun li. That and having a legitimate mix-up game seem to differentiate most of the cast from the bottom tier. Marisa is also too straight forward, but her multiple super high dmg combos keep her from being at the bottom. I think most characters would become competitive if they had a decent mix-up game, or feints like DJ's sway. Manon has a feint, but she doesn't have enough of a bag for that feint to force someone to make a mistake. Obviously we have someone like Kimberly, who has everything I'm talking about, and she isn't high tier, but Manon and Lilly can start by making it to mid tier first, and giving them more ways to force mistakes and punish mistakes is the way. You see how Zangeif has a move that can counter kicks? What if they made some moves like that for Manon, and gave her more feints to bait someone into those counters. A grappler with counters makes sense.
Been waiting for this one!
Man I would love to have user made combo trials and be able to copy those notes irl
That’s actually a very good idea
wish light command grab let you have oki still and if you want the big damage then it should send you all the way back as usual
After punish h.p you can f.hp Mk.spire lvl 1 😀 or lk spire one of them lol
Maybe it’s cope, but I feel like she’ll get the S2 Gief treatment either this or next season
You know the discourse is fucked when lily players have to to say 'im not downplaying ' like she's bottom 3 even in season 2 lol
It's the usual a character wins so they must be good or top tier specifically even. I just figured I would give my two cents as a solo Lily main since launch lol
@@ElChakotay bottom 3 being tournament viable is a good testament to the balance of the games mechanics. A good player like you can compete with a low tier. Still it's good you showed lily needs buffs even outside of invincible reversal, I loved the breakdown.
Lilly M videos soon? No.. I'll see myself out. 😢 😂
THEY NEED TO MAKE HER WIND CHARGE FASTER.. PERIOD! THAT WOULD MAKE A HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN HOW MUCH BETTER SHE COULD FIGHT.. OR CREDIT HER THE WIND CHARGE BEFORE THE ANIMATION ENDS..
Damn,it sounds rough playing as lily.
How do you beat this character she makes me want to give myself CTE every time i play against her i want to fucking cry and scream someone please help
I thought she could combo into level 1 off medium spire with stock
Only off of a punish counter or weird juggle state
@@ElChakotay I see
I just want her mediums to be drive rush cancellable...
Si hombre
At times im like why do i even have med buttons with her ngl..
Just want to try and poke with stand med and 9/10 times I'll eat a di for it.
She's basicly lights and back or down heavy.. Makes me sad :(
Why can you cancel heavy condor wind into SA3?
I can only speak for myself but what I'd want for Lily are as follows
236K Condor Spire
All windclad versions: Now Projectile Invuln
Non-windclad OD verison: Now Projectile Invuln
Windclad OD version: Late frames, Lily's hurtbox shrunk
623P Tomahawk Buster
All Windclad versions: Now throw invuln f1-10
Windclad OD version: Now strike invuln f1-10
j.PP (Condor Dive)
Windclad OD version: Hits without bouncing off, +1 on-block when hitting shins.
Drive Guage cost when linking OD Tomahawk Buster into OD Condor Dive: 2 -> 1, matching Guille's Sonic Blade into Boom change
I’m nowhere near as good as you, but I’ve noticed that is a lot harder to win now with Lily. Yes, level one has gotten faster. It has become a bit helpful, but all the other routes of winning has been completely destroyed. I don’t do many combos, I don’t really know how to do the combos, But the things that I was able to do before, has stopped. Akuma, is a major problem. A lot of the other characters are the same way now, I’m low level. But before I was able to beat some of these people with no problem. Now, every fight is a struggle. Thanks brother for your recommendations and guide. I don’t know why they still cocky the number one Lily, for me, you’re the best. Keep it up, brother.🫡
Capcom really afraid to make grapplers strong lol
Paying for vanilla SF4 zangief's sins for 16 years
Zangief was actually good in USF4, Mika was top tier in season 1 of SF5 then top 10 in season 3 & 4. Laura was top tier in season 2 of SFV. Grapplers have been good in more recent game times
zangief is right there
cada vez me desanimo en ser main lily parece ser que capcom la odia por amor de dios den le algo bueno a mi niña
Dude, we really need 1 comprehensive guide for Lily, not small guides with changes and stuff.
Pressure how the mixup after the windsock condor spire works (when you are in and +1, what you do as buttons vs the command grab), what you are aiming at in the neutral, and so on.
I already made a post on here saying that I would do an updated Lily guide before I posted this video. I always do character overview videos when a balance patch releases for characters that I play.
@@ElChakotay I am so glad to hear that. Keep it coming!
@@ElChakotay ok boss, now i main lily
@@ElChakotayhas this vid dropped yet? Feel like i hit a wall with her and would love a deep dive video to try and sharpen up my game plan some
I think it’s stupid that Capcom is “afraid to make Grapplers Strong” 🤦🏻♂️ Gief 😂 they can’t make Lily at least reliable bruh 😂
ELLLDERRR!
Oh ELDERRRRR!
MY PLEASURE!!
- Cyber Lily
I THINK A LOT OF PPL FORGET/DONT KNOW LILY CAN DELAY OR SPEED UP HER CONDOR DIVE.. IF YOUR OPPO ALWAYS CHECKS YOUR DIVE WITH AN ANTI AIR, JUST JUMP DELAY, AND AND THEN DIVE.. IF THEY LIKE TO CHECK YOU WITH DP, YOU CAN DO A SHORT JUMP TO QUICK DIVE, AND (HOPEFULLY) BEAT THEIR DP..
Hey chakotay is there anyway you can help me reach Master rank, im hard stuck in diamond 2, i dont know where to message you. You did respond one of my comments so im taking u up on the offer 😂😂
Sure, you can message me on Twitter, or even discord if you use those. The name is ElChakotay on both
@@ElChakotay you are awsome thank you!
@@ElChakotay i tried to find u on Discord but nothing came up sensei
@@mafiosord610 what's your discord name?
T-hawk from 4 was better designed than Lily ffs. I want to play a grappler in this game but fucking A man
LILY ALSO CANT EX CONDOR DIVE THROUGH AKUMAS AIR FIREBALLS.. WTF??.. IF SHE CAN DO IT ON LAND, THEY SHOULD MAKE IT FOR AIR TOO..
His air FBs don't have the "projectile" property on em'. Other anti-fireball maneuvers struggle just as much against it
It's like demonic said, it's considered a psychical hit. You can instead dp through it with no problem
1500 views but only 100 something likes? Yall stay hating on Lily 😂