Angels don't need bodies: Theology graduate watches Supernatural
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- I watched CW's Supernatural, and as a Catholic I found the theology of the show very silly. So I spent a long time taking its theology too seriously.
00:00 Intro (Spoilers for this show up to s6)
00:47 The trouble with angels
04:07 Storytelling reasons for lore breaks
05:11 Angels and time
05:38 The Archangels
06:35 Sympathy for the Devil
08:04 The body problem
09:28 Terrible reference work
11:37 The God allusion
13:54 Latin & Incantations
16:22 The stuff I liked
Image credit: Holy Family Catholic Church (Oldenburg, Indiana) - interior, nave before a wedding Mass by Nheyob
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported - Фільми й анімація
10:58 well if you view a monster as a former human then the vampire makes sense but i still dont know what they gotta do in the endless forest of the shows purgatory
Love your graphics- your avatar giving a lecture to a room full of UA-cam symbols.... Like a slideshow. Thats hilarious.
Thanks, it's inspired in part by the style of some of CGP Grey's videos.
Couldn't make it pass 6 seasons lol. They should have ended after killing the yellow eyed demon.
Yeah, the show should have ended once the original reason for the brothers' crusade was over.
The story arch of seasons 6-10 is my favorite part of the show. Try it on rewatch when you’re not burned out. It really grew on me.
The biggest issue for me is that they kept changing the lore as the show went on and swapped creative hands. Demons not being fallen angels and being created by Lucifer was a bad creative decision as well imo.
I mean, as adapting fanfics goes, they where equal on how they treated norse mythology, indu mythology or biblical mythology, etc. Creatively. The Bible itself, like all mythologies, isnt very precise or consistent on many themes from gospel to gospel.
I think I adequately responded to this in the video itself, since the line I drew was between active religious traditions and fringe cults like neopaganism. The only active tradition the show adapted would be Hinduism and the character of Kali, with the other pagans like Odin from long dead cults - since neopagans are larpers who's tradition died out when their ancestors became Christians.
Hey man this implemented more in a fanfic I read. Where, the main character is a seraph, I think. Also in supernatural, not all angles steal bodies but some cooperate with them
The point I was making was that angels have to inhabit human bodies at all - particular humans who can't go about their lives because an angel inhabits them. That's weird. The traditional idea is that an angel assumes a body - a spontaneous body for their particular earthly mission.
I'm not sure I'd say they made Gabriel a antagonist, but rather they turned Loki a Antagonist into Gabriel. Once that happens he basically switches to the brother's side of things.
There's a line that doesn't make a lot of sense in the show at one point that I recall. And it's that Angels don't need human bodies, they use them because its safer to go about the world for the world's sake. Castiel's true form burns the eyes out of folk, his true voice causes a small building to go boom. I recall someone in the show saying their true forms are giant in comparison to a human.
This isn't really sensical given the Lucifer/Micheal plot requires them take Sam/Dean's bodies. As neither of them care about causing human causalities, but maybe I'm missing a line that the show uses to explain that. Could be that both are just that obsessed with the prophecy.
Now, as a Catholic myself, you echo most of my own hangups about the show's depications of Angels. Though, to be clear, while Demons are supposed to be Lucifer's twisted creatures to mock God's humans in the lore, their actual function in the show's cosmology is as Anti-Angels in how they work.
Which is obvious just from how they differ in terms of possessing folk.
I do actually disagree with you on how it's okay to display pagan beliefs inaccurate over Chistian Beliefs. Mostly because unlike as you claim, they do still got worshippers in the current day. Thor is still worshipped, people even worship Loki(which is a complicated topic to explain in a comment section).
I don't make this claim to defend Pagan beliefs as being as true as our own, just that I dislike the idea that only being a minority makes it fair to take such liberties with people's faith. Because in that case, just becoming a minority would make such things okay to do the same to us. We should instead work to respect people's beliefs in general, so in turn it becomes Culturally normal, regardless of religious origin of the writer, to respect Chistian beliefs too.
I think the way I read works like Supernatural is much like I read Dante. WHich is "this is a fanfiction." with widely OOC takes on the established characters and the setting.
I didn't say no one worships pagan deities today - I said most normal people don't. Neopagans are a fringe cult, without a solid foothold as a world religion because there was a near complete rupture of the old ways as people turned towards Christianity. For most neopagans, it's a rejection of their Christian culture, and not preserving some existing practice (with obvious exceptions like India - where the paganism isn't "neo").
Furthermore, I am under no obligation to ask fiction to treat pagan deities seriously or fairly, since like St. Paul I consider them to be demons if they exist at all; these gods are not competing religious traditions who I must give equal treatment to, but enemies of my religious tradition that are crushed by the coming of Christ.
@@JPKloess The minority of their postition is more so my point than not. This makes them a weak link, the under dog as one can argue from. As Secular law requires fair treatment, so the general public opinion is much of the same. Asking for special treatment only ever angers large portion of folk that would've otherwise agreed with you.
As much as you are under no obligation to ask fiction to treat pagaon deities seriously or fairly, that belugers out to the same of others. It's not the unfaithful's obligation to treat God, Jesus, Angels, Saints, etc fairly.
It's not a Catholic Postion to ask for one treatment of you, but another for others. Much as Jesus asks us to treat others as we wish to be treated. You can't ask for something that you wouldn't be willing to give in return.
And there lays a stronger position to defend the faith.
On the nature of St Paul's words on Pagan Deities being Demons. I presume you are referring to Corinthians 10:20 where he speaks that sacrifices made to Pagan Deities are ones to demons instead.
Which is a point he makes, but is out of context slightly given his words(from 32 to 33)after are;
Never be a cause of offence, either to Jews or to Greeks or to the Church of God,
just as I try to accommodate everybody in everything, not looking for my own advantage, but for the advantage of everybody else, so that they may be saved."
We can in conscience eat with these people, live with these people. But not partake in their rituals. Being respectful to them is not that. And also Paul makes claim to the sacrifices in 10:20, where in 19 he was referring to the pagan deities themselves as "idols' in reference to idolality. They're nothing in his words. Not demons. Merely sacrifices to them, end up to demons.
On the case of wishing their being crushed. One must realize that such a crushing is actually just a natural result of the Lord's words. No False God can stand in the presence of the Lord; but when one looks to the Christian Scribes that wrote the Book of Invasions or Snori(a Chistian Scribe and Poet of some reknown)'s Prose Edda.
The defeation of those Enities lay not in ridicule and mispresentation of their tales, but a truth being written. The beings demythified in the eyes of their followers without demeantion of the tales. Where as the aggressive tactics taken against these fringe groups of today fall to save or to convert many.
"It's not a Catholic Postion to ask for one treatment of you, but another for others. Much as Jesus asks us to treat others as we wish to be treated. You can't ask for something that you wouldn't be willing to give in return. "
The golden rule applies to the principles of justice and to how we treat others, but it is no way a Catholic position to hold that we must treat erroneous moral ideas or religious preferences with equal deference under the law - or in public society. Error has no rights in a Catholic view, and it tolerated only insofar as it would do more harm to suppress it.
As Ci Riesce says, "Thus the two principles are clarified to which recourse must be had in concrete cases for the answer to the serious question concerning the attitude which the jurist, the statesman and the sovereign Catholic state is to adopt in consideration of the community of nations in regard to a formula of religious and moral toleration as described above. First: that which does not correspond to truth or to the norm of morality objectively has no right to exist, to be spread or to be activated. Secondly: failure to impede this with civil laws and coercive measures can nevertheless be justified in the interests of a higher and more general good."
Again, I am not saying that we treat anyone with less than the fulness of Christian virtue. I am saying that there is nothing un-Catholic in preferring and advancing true ideas over false ideas - because false ideas do not have equal merit or equal rights.
dint satan flip sides?
A show based on Christianity that doesn’t involve Christ.
Can you imagine how badly done it would be if they included him though?
@@JPKloess With competent writers and a deep understanding of Christianity, It would be possible. But it’s a CW show, so you’re right, it would have been awful and blasphemous.
This is honestly why i stopped going to church. Everyone takes that book as 100% literal or 100% metaphor.
How about...ITS A FANTASY SHOW NOT BEHOLDEN TO YOUR PERSONAL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!
They also claim as God has a sister, and then were originally one making him literally half the God he should be. They also claim that both the empty AND death are stronger than God and infact he is powerless when confronted by them.
Also its very inappropriate and unprofessional to claim anything written in the book as fact when the truth is that the book has been written by man, rewritten, written against and "interpreted" do at best its a book of half truths and at worse its metaphoric lies.
Don't get me wrong you can believe how you want, I myself still follow my catholic roots. However i would never use the word fact with anything from the book, and to sit there and claim that in this day and age as if you were there when it was foretold in its original state is the height of arrogance and pride
Angels arent real so they arent going to get offended by their portrayal in a tv show.
Lol
It would depend on what you mean by "offended". An angel not only exists - but is perfect, and is only concerned for their own honor or well being to the degree that God wills that they do.
@@JPKloess a lot of people are convinced big foot exists too. Its not like youve ever seen an angel
@YOSSARIAN313 Nobody sees angels. That's the point. They're incorporeal.
@@JPKloess then why are you so certain they exist. Being that certain is arrogant and typical of the illegitimate academic field of theology. I hate how certain you types are of everything