I really wish anyone but Blizzard took a crack at this delicate world tapestry they've made. An organization that desires conflict for the sake of it, in the same universe with a minority, that has a finite number, that isn't liked by the people they share a world with, is an interesting setup for a lot of possible stories. That minority is inherently incentivized to always fight. It's one of the few times where it can be argued that violence is always the answer, because I'd argue humanity has shown so far that coexistence is not an option. Without coexistence, the finite minority has a -very- vested interest in fighting endlessly until they either make it to the top of the food chain across the world, or die out. Removing coexistence as an option kinda limits their choices if they want to survive. Survival instincts are a fundamental part of every species on this planet, which could be argued is proof enough that they are sentient. To clarify: The reason I'm writing off coexistence as a possibility at this point is that a finite minority can only afford to lose so many people in pursuit of coexistence before it should throw in the towel and find something else. Could coexistence be achieved? Maybe, but with the Omnic losses rising and rising, that coexistence might not be possible until there's only a handful left, which at that point, was probably not worth all the patience and effort. Lose many in pursuit of coexistence, or possibly lose that many, more, or less, in pursuit of the end goal of guaranteeing survival? The numbers are quite skewed, and all of this kinda forces a harsh philosophical debate on the Omnics that do remain.
There's so many signs that the previous narrative team just made shit up on the fly, especially the year before OW1 released. And now the current team are stuck using a shitty oppression plot for their story. Null Sector was barely a faction, just made to be an enemy force for Uprising
The mismanagement of Overwatch's plot should be studied, because it's truly a *baffling* situation. My theory has always been that Sombra was the point of no return bc that was when they committed themselves to the grand conspiracy stuff, and from there it seems like they just kinda didn't know where to go. Making Null Sector a primary antagonist was deeply stupid and never should've happened - Talon's already underdeveloped and underutilized, but at least they have a bunch of heroes. Null Sector has Ramattra and some genuinely shitty connotations alongside it, and I honestly am worried that the further the Null Sector plot progresses, the more it's gonna overstep.
I am halfway through my philosophy class this semester and i feel like you have have done a very good job of explaining the different views. I read locke and you have done a very good job of explaining all the exceptions in governments and repercussions. You definitely put the time and effort into your work and it shows. Keep up the good work we (I) appreciate it
Have you ever considered making a complete timeline video (no detail too small, no conflict too big)? Ive watched a ton but the amount of lore ive just learned in a video about philosophy is just astounding. Its a shame a random person in the middle of nowhere knows more about the lore than the people who created it 😂
I actually did make one a long, long time ago! It was on my first channel, but I don't know if I'd ever do it again - I think it's only gotten messier and less coherent over time lol
LETS GO YES BABY IDEOLOGICAL THEORY IN MY VIDEO GAMES I WANT TO DISCUSS PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCES AND THEIR INSINUATIONS IN A CLOSED FICTIONAL SPACE i love you bringing up Ur Fascism also cause i used to have to deal with adjacent organizations on the uni campus i used to be at. its amazing how on point so many of the 14 points show up in modern organizations, even at younger levels (which i mean have been astroturfed but still)
Hi, great video, just some questions: 1) When did we get confirmation that Roadhog was kiwi? I thought he was just used it for aEstHeTIcS, lol good to know he is. 2) I think (and this is my opinion, don’t know if you explain it better in your next video, it’s not out as of commenting) that even if we to take Ramattra’s philosophy at face value, it’s still deeply flawed within the OW universe. One could argue that the Omnics are a single generation race all one wants, but it’s “singular” because of the particulars of their consciousness. Following a “humans can reproduce, we cannot, therefore Omnics lifestyle are more important” logic is kind of crazy 😂. Imagine going to a parent that lost their son in the Omnic war fighting to save humanity from genocide and going “well, you can always have another son, you know 🤷♀️”. EVERYONE’s consciousness is unique, and perhaps Omnics can’t reproduce, but they can be fixed and they can be rebuilt, just as Orisa was (perhaps Orisa is not an Omnic, but from what we’ve seen, she is pretty conscious).And I understand, Rammatra is fighting to preserve that original branch of singularity, but again, to do so you have to equate human life with omnic life, which as you said is irresponsible at best. What I want to say is this: Why do you feel Rammatra himself is correct, and that Overwatch is presenting him as wrong, when from everything we’ve seen in the Overwatch universe, it’s not the case? To present him as right, you’d have to suppose that the humans in this universe dislike Omnics “cuz lolz” and not that they come from an Omnic crisis that had many of those same Omnics killing them, so perhaps it’s okay that humans hate Omnics and the idea of sharing space with similar brethren. It also makes Omnics look as if they’re in the brink of extinction, where they seem to be well adapted in some places of the world. Perhaps not confortable, but tolerated. Except in Toronto, they seem cool there. I don’t know if I explained myself, I don’t mean to point fallacies or anything, I’m wondering what make you inclined towards thinking Rammatra is right, and that he’s being presented as a villain and not that Rammatra is well meant at most, but addressing the whole situation EXTREMELY callously, and this is why he’s presented as a villain. Anyways, I’ve spoken too much already, gee. Great video overall, keep up the good work 👍
As far as Ramattra goes, the reason I say he's correct is that his logic fully holds. His assessment of humanity as being fundamentally unwilling or unable to stop the brutality against Omnics is pretty hard to reject, and if you accept his premise that the Omnics are deserving of continued existence, then it's hard to reject the idea that the Omnics have a right to fight back against what's being done to them. The Omnic Crisis being used as justification for humanity's treatment of the Omnics is a poor one imo - humanity has been a far more consistent threat to humanity's own survival throughout the Overwatch universe, ranging from Talon to even Omnica itself, and if humanity's logic is that they should be collectively blaming current Omnics for the Crisis (despite being mind-controlled throughout it by Anubis) but not holding humanity itself collectively responsible for the atrocities committed against Omnics, then they're not being rational enough to achieve peaceful co-existence with Omnics. The idea that you should hate an entire species because you once fought a war with them isn't rational, and it certainly doesn't justify the extermination of an entire sentient species - which is the inevitable outcome of humanity's treatment of Omnics even if some people are decent towards them. I don't think Ramattra would argue that individual human souls are not unique or deserving of preservation, but rather that both Omnics and humans should mutually have to abide by it. Humanity was violent to Omnics even when they were peaceful, so to him, they've forfeited being treated peacefully. Beyond that, though, the violence that humanity enacts against Omnics does pose the very real threat of permanent extinction for all Omnics - they cannot be rebuilt and retain their sentience, and once one dies, their soul is gone for good (hence why they didn't just rebuild Tekhartha or whatever). I think the main thing is that those are very different stakes - Ramattra is fighting because the alternative is extinction, and part of why I think that it's a bit bullshit for the game to present him as an unequivocal villain of OW2 is that it treats humanity's violence towards innocent Omnics as something that shouldn't come with collective punishment while Omnic violence is treated as a justification for the ongoing subjugation of Omnics as a whole.
I see! I forgot I posted this and came back before seeing the new video. Very interesting take, I hadn’t thought about it like that. I think you’re right, it’s true that humans are still a threat to other humans in the OW universe, even more so than Omnics, and I failed to see it 😅 I’ll finish the new video, good job so far!
@@TheViveros LMAOOO no they didn't, I do it too lol. Really, I think your ground-up approach beginning with basically symbolic logic makes a lot of sense for a philosphical analysis, and starting at worldbuilding then moving onto individuals shows you're thinking deeply about the topic and laying the groundwork :0. I had to stop watching near the middle but I'm excited to finish the series when I'm not at work!
I’m glad you’ve liked it so far! Ngl my biggest fear whenever I do a video where I talk about something that’s a bit outside of my wheelhouse is that I’m about to get a bunch of comments from the actual experts telling me I’m a moron lmao
The ALF actually wasn't a omnic hate group (not specifically). The omnium being built made alot of them lose their homes, that was what had upset them. They formed to try to stop that from happening but it ended up turning into a hate group. I don't think it was ever meant to be that either, they just wanted to keep living there.
OH MY GOD. Crazy theory just clicked in my head. Bastion doesn't talk... because he's the reincarnated soul of Mondatta. Idon't think we actually KNOW when bastion was made, if it was before or after Mondatta's death. But say he was built after, and the conflict between his hard coded EXTERMINATE factory settings and Pacifism of Mondatta is what caused him to short out in the forest.
Also, the only comparison to the omnic's struggle that I can think of that fits is the vampires from True Blood. Lol. They TEEEECHNICALLLY weren't allowed to reproduce IIRC, so their current gen was the only one.
-damn, why are philosophy majors catching strays? 😂 -thank you for touching on bioshock infinite's "can't solve violence with violence" bs. it always bugged me how it's framed in it, that booker is basically irredeemable due to his violence. meanwhile the people he was being violent against, are holding literal racist carnivals, where you get to throw balls at black people for being black. like bitch was he supposed to ask them nicely to stop? -"is talon fascist?" no way, in a billion year is blizzard touching that, with even a 10 foot pole, same with Social Darwinism. doomfist's ideology is not developing past "survival of the fittest", anytime soon😂. i think that's due to mainstream entertainment wanting to have their cake and eat it too, by drawing in as much demographics as possible. that's why so many characters ideologies don't go past the name or introduction of said ideologies, like "peace good, war bad" and "strong lives, weak dies" etc... they don't wanna put off anyone.
I'm not even 2/3 of the way through and you've already made so many points that have helped my understanding of the world. ur filling in gaps in my brain I didn't know were there. your description of how omnics believe liberation will come peacefully, but might at the cost of human lives truly is a work of art in itself.
Nice vid but quick question: is every 3 philosophy that u explain are justified or is it more closed and only has gud team vs bad team? Again awesome vid 😎
There better not be philosophy in my Overwatch 😡
Philosophy?? In MY rule 34 game??
there BETTER be philosophy in my overwatch !!!
8:47 the irony in how attempting to hack that Cassidy's Deadeye allowed him to kill someone with it; he would've wasted his ult if no attempt was made
i love listening to a twinks
HELP?? 😭
Fr this man could read me my prison sentence and I'd thank him
Peak overwatch content is here now
I really wish anyone but Blizzard took a crack at this delicate world tapestry they've made. An organization that desires conflict for the sake of it, in the same universe with a minority, that has a finite number, that isn't liked by the people they share a world with, is an interesting setup for a lot of possible stories. That minority is inherently incentivized to always fight. It's one of the few times where it can be argued that violence is always the answer, because I'd argue humanity has shown so far that coexistence is not an option. Without coexistence, the finite minority has a -very- vested interest in fighting endlessly until they either make it to the top of the food chain across the world, or die out. Removing coexistence as an option kinda limits their choices if they want to survive. Survival instincts are a fundamental part of every species on this planet, which could be argued is proof enough that they are sentient.
To clarify: The reason I'm writing off coexistence as a possibility at this point is that a finite minority can only afford to lose so many people in pursuit of coexistence before it should throw in the towel and find something else. Could coexistence be achieved? Maybe, but with the Omnic losses rising and rising, that coexistence might not be possible until there's only a handful left, which at that point, was probably not worth all the patience and effort. Lose many in pursuit of coexistence, or possibly lose that many, more, or less, in pursuit of the end goal of guaranteeing survival? The numbers are quite skewed, and all of this kinda forces a harsh philosophical debate on the Omnics that do remain.
Better not say anything bad about my girl Moira she has done nothing moirally wrong in her entire life she is an angel 😤
I think Moira would be personally offended by the insinuation that she’s been perfectly moral ngl
There's so many signs that the previous narrative team just made shit up on the fly, especially the year before OW1 released. And now the current team are stuck using a shitty oppression plot for their story. Null Sector was barely a faction, just made to be an enemy force for Uprising
The mismanagement of Overwatch's plot should be studied, because it's truly a *baffling* situation. My theory has always been that Sombra was the point of no return bc that was when they committed themselves to the grand conspiracy stuff, and from there it seems like they just kinda didn't know where to go. Making Null Sector a primary antagonist was deeply stupid and never should've happened - Talon's already underdeveloped and underutilized, but at least they have a bunch of heroes. Null Sector has Ramattra and some genuinely shitty connotations alongside it, and I honestly am worried that the further the Null Sector plot progresses, the more it's gonna overstep.
I am halfway through my philosophy class this semester and i feel like you have have done a very good job of explaining the different views. I read locke and you have done a very good job of explaining all the exceptions in governments and repercussions. You definitely put the time and effort into your work and it shows.
Keep up the good work we (I) appreciate it
"i wish more people took Overwatch's story seriously..."
This motherf*cker:
Have you ever considered making a complete timeline video (no detail too small, no conflict too big)? Ive watched a ton but the amount of lore ive just learned in a video about philosophy is just astounding. Its a shame a random person in the middle of nowhere knows more about the lore than the people who created it 😂
I actually did make one a long, long time ago! It was on my first channel, but I don't know if I'd ever do it again - I think it's only gotten messier and less coherent over time lol
LETS GO YES BABY IDEOLOGICAL THEORY IN MY VIDEO GAMES I WANT TO DISCUSS PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCES AND THEIR INSINUATIONS IN A CLOSED FICTIONAL SPACE
i love you bringing up Ur Fascism also cause i used to have to deal with adjacent organizations on the uni campus i used to be at. its amazing how on point so many of the 14 points show up in modern organizations, even at younger levels (which i mean have been astroturfed but still)
Obviously this game is shoving politics down our throats, how could blizzard do this?
/s
Dude, you literraly helped me start understanding philosophy, ideology and more. HUGE, HUGE THANK YOU!
Hi, great video, just some questions:
1) When did we get confirmation that Roadhog was kiwi? I thought he was just used it for aEstHeTIcS, lol good to know he is.
2) I think (and this is my opinion, don’t know if you explain it better in your next video, it’s not out as of commenting) that even if we to take Ramattra’s philosophy at face value, it’s still deeply flawed within the OW universe. One could argue that the Omnics are a single generation race all one wants, but it’s “singular” because of the particulars of their consciousness. Following a “humans can reproduce, we cannot, therefore Omnics lifestyle are more important” logic is kind of crazy 😂. Imagine going to a parent that lost their son in the Omnic war fighting to save humanity from genocide and going “well, you can always have another son, you know 🤷♀️”. EVERYONE’s consciousness is unique, and perhaps Omnics can’t reproduce, but they can be fixed and they can be rebuilt, just as Orisa was (perhaps Orisa is not an Omnic, but from what we’ve seen, she is pretty conscious).And I understand, Rammatra is fighting to preserve that original branch of singularity, but again, to do so you have to equate human life with omnic life, which as you said is irresponsible at best. What I want to say is this: Why do you feel Rammatra himself is correct, and that Overwatch is presenting him as wrong, when from everything we’ve seen in the Overwatch universe, it’s not the case? To present him as right, you’d have to suppose that the humans in this universe dislike Omnics “cuz lolz” and not that they come from an Omnic crisis that had many of those same Omnics killing them, so perhaps it’s okay that humans hate Omnics and the idea of sharing space with similar brethren. It also makes Omnics look as if they’re in the brink of extinction, where they seem to be well adapted in some places of the world. Perhaps not confortable, but tolerated. Except in Toronto, they seem cool there. I don’t know if I explained myself, I don’t mean to point fallacies or anything, I’m wondering what make you inclined towards thinking Rammatra is right, and that he’s being presented as a villain and not that Rammatra is well meant at most, but addressing the whole situation EXTREMELY callously, and this is why he’s presented as a villain.
Anyways, I’ve spoken too much already, gee. Great video overall, keep up the good work 👍
As far as Ramattra goes, the reason I say he's correct is that his logic fully holds. His assessment of humanity as being fundamentally unwilling or unable to stop the brutality against Omnics is pretty hard to reject, and if you accept his premise that the Omnics are deserving of continued existence, then it's hard to reject the idea that the Omnics have a right to fight back against what's being done to them. The Omnic Crisis being used as justification for humanity's treatment of the Omnics is a poor one imo - humanity has been a far more consistent threat to humanity's own survival throughout the Overwatch universe, ranging from Talon to even Omnica itself, and if humanity's logic is that they should be collectively blaming current Omnics for the Crisis (despite being mind-controlled throughout it by Anubis) but not holding humanity itself collectively responsible for the atrocities committed against Omnics, then they're not being rational enough to achieve peaceful co-existence with Omnics. The idea that you should hate an entire species because you once fought a war with them isn't rational, and it certainly doesn't justify the extermination of an entire sentient species - which is the inevitable outcome of humanity's treatment of Omnics even if some people are decent towards them.
I don't think Ramattra would argue that individual human souls are not unique or deserving of preservation, but rather that both Omnics and humans should mutually have to abide by it. Humanity was violent to Omnics even when they were peaceful, so to him, they've forfeited being treated peacefully. Beyond that, though, the violence that humanity enacts against Omnics does pose the very real threat of permanent extinction for all Omnics - they cannot be rebuilt and retain their sentience, and once one dies, their soul is gone for good (hence why they didn't just rebuild Tekhartha or whatever). I think the main thing is that those are very different stakes - Ramattra is fighting because the alternative is extinction, and part of why I think that it's a bit bullshit for the game to present him as an unequivocal villain of OW2 is that it treats humanity's violence towards innocent Omnics as something that shouldn't come with collective punishment while Omnic violence is treated as a justification for the ongoing subjugation of Omnics as a whole.
I see! I forgot I posted this and came back before seeing the new video. Very interesting take, I hadn’t thought about it like that. I think you’re right, it’s true that humans are still a threat to other humans in the OW universe, even more so than Omnics, and I failed to see it 😅 I’ll finish the new video, good job so far!
Grats on finishing school!
Thank you! I got my final grade back while I was finishing up this video, actually - it was a nice way to end it off haha
First
I just wanted to say that I absolutely LOVE these sort of videos discussing the philosophy and ideology of this game.
This vid is amazing for real and im excited to start the next one rn
Oh hell yeah. Political Philosophy is my shit. Been looking forward to this vid.
You know, I think Mercy is a pretty good person, but she becomes the most insufferable, preachy annoyance just from being within 100 yards of Moira.
While this vid still has less than 500 views I have to say that I’d die if you streamed Splatoon at least once. Die in the good way of course!
I've never played it before tbh, I might embarrass myself lol
It's me, I'm Philosophy Major Georg but I love pop Philosophy so ur good. Excited to watch!
I hope the repeated digs at philosophy majors didn’t get you down too much (as a communications major I’m just projecting tbh)
@@TheViveros LMAOOO no they didn't, I do it too lol. Really, I think your ground-up approach beginning with basically symbolic logic makes a lot of sense for a philosphical analysis, and starting at worldbuilding then moving onto individuals shows you're thinking deeply about the topic and laying the groundwork :0. I had to stop watching near the middle but I'm excited to finish the series when I'm not at work!
I’m glad you’ve liked it so far! Ngl my biggest fear whenever I do a video where I talk about something that’s a bit outside of my wheelhouse is that I’m about to get a bunch of comments from the actual experts telling me I’m a moron lmao
The ALF actually wasn't a omnic hate group (not specifically). The omnium being built made alot of them lose their homes, that was what had upset them. They formed to try to stop that from happening but it ended up turning into a hate group.
I don't think it was ever meant to be that either, they just wanted to keep living there.
I would absolutely love a video about the Junkers themselves. Whether it's about the entirety of them or just the in-game characters.
Name dropping Contrapoints was one of the highlights of my day and hopefully one day you two can collab! Great video!
I LOVE UR VIDS UR SO COOL 🫶
make disco elysium videos now pls
It's tempting, I really am enjoying playing it lol
I don't play overwatch but your content is just so well made and interesting that it doesn't even matter
Idk why but I expected a “no bitches” when you started saying “ overwatch has no money, no power…”
OH MY GOD. Crazy theory just clicked in my head. Bastion doesn't talk... because he's the reincarnated soul of Mondatta. Idon't think we actually KNOW when bastion was made, if it was before or after Mondatta's death. But say he was built after, and the conflict between his hard coded EXTERMINATE factory settings and Pacifism of Mondatta is what caused him to short out in the forest.
Also, the only comparison to the omnic's struggle that I can think of that fits is the vampires from True Blood. Lol. They TEEEECHNICALLLY weren't allowed to reproduce IIRC, so their current gen was the only one.
-damn, why are philosophy majors catching strays? 😂
-thank you for touching on bioshock infinite's "can't solve violence with violence" bs. it always bugged me how it's framed in it, that booker is basically irredeemable due to his violence. meanwhile the people he was being violent against, are holding literal racist carnivals, where you get to throw balls at black people for being black. like bitch was he supposed to ask them nicely to stop?
-"is talon fascist?" no way, in a billion year is blizzard touching that, with even a 10 foot pole, same with Social Darwinism. doomfist's ideology is not developing past "survival of the fittest", anytime soon😂. i think that's due to mainstream entertainment wanting to have their cake and eat it too, by drawing in as much demographics as possible. that's why so many characters ideologies don't go past the name or introduction of said ideologies, like "peace good, war bad" and "strong lives, weak dies" etc... they don't wanna put off anyone.
Null sector is right ngl, id support them, inaction is the same as supporting oppression
This video feels Taylor made for me it is amazing I have to play disco elysium again
I'm not even 2/3 of the way through and you've already made so many points that have helped my understanding of the world. ur filling in gaps in my brain I didn't know were there.
your description of how omnics believe liberation will come peacefully, but might at the cost of human lives truly is a work of art in itself.
I LOVED THIS VIDEO SO MUCH
Finally
A person using blue for enemy color as well
Nice vid but quick question: is every 3 philosophy that u explain are justified or is it more closed and only has gud team vs bad team? Again awesome vid 😎