The Whole Sign House System
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2017
- In this video I introduce the whole sign house system, talk about how this approach to house division is calculated, what its early history was, and how you can test it yourself to see whether it works when applied to birth charts.
Whole sign houses was the original system of houses that was used in ancient Hellenistic astrology when the concept of the twelve houses was first introduced.
More info on whole sign houses:
theastrologypodcast.com/2015/1...
To learn more about astrology visit:
courses.theastrologyschool.com
#WholeSignHouses #HellenisticAstrology
Thanks for not wasting time with opening graphics, titles, etc!
Whole sign works so much better for me in my practice and with my clients.
Love your vids!
So glad to know this dear. May I know which software you use?
@@Palmystree thank u
@@roheitnaik9573 solar fire
@@DstarAstrology Thank you so much for your replay. I was wondering if you don't mind may I ask you for the setup of this software. Please🙏
The oldest and the simplest! Whole signs changed how I approach astrology for the better, years ago. Thanks to Robert Hand and Chris for advocating for it!
I started Astrology by using Placidus, but then, I saw that a lot of astrologers, specially in the US, started to talk more and more about this whole sign houses method and it works too. Now I use both... which it's more work, but at the same time, more accurate. Thanks for the video!
Hi ma'am may I know which software do you use for reading tropical chart? I in search of it.
omg i've been listening to the podcast for a few months now, clicked on this not realising chris had video content as well. so crazy to put a face to the voice! hello! :)
Through my own study I've also noticed that whole sign house system is more on point. Both with my personal planets and the transits.
Chris, I am among your biggest fans - and though I can listen to you for hours (and often do), these shorter, pithier videos are marvelous - thank you!
In the past i have been using the usual house systems - placidus, koch, regiomontanus...; but the whole sign houses is in some respects by far the most interesting one, not to mention that it really simplifies the possible problem of reictification of time for the natus...
May I know which software you use for tropical horoscope?
This year when pluto ingressed into Aquarius, I immediately saw the impact. Same with Saturn moving into Pisces. (Sag rising). And also North Node. It was like quick and just you can feel that change so transparently
I’m from Thailand and the whole sign house is mainly used in Thai astrology. It’s fascinating to know that this system is now popular in western astrology too.
Most certainly switching after your informative videos this method of house division makes it simple to understand
Thank you! This is such a relief! As a Cancer rising, many modern programs tell me my Sun is in the 7th but I have been single by choice for all of my adult life. The 8th house has always made so much more sense to me. My chart is dominated by Scorpio so I have felt conflicted if that was the reason why I gravitated toward aligning with the 8th. I appreciate your insight!
Interesting, one thing I do not like about Whole Signs is that it pushes my luminaries all into the seventh. In Porphyry and Placidus they are, Moon in the fifth, Sun in the sixth. Meanwhile the inner planets get pushed to the eighth. I have never been very good at keeping relationships, never dated anyone more than 3 months.
The only thing I actually read by shifting my chart to Whole, with the inner planets in eighth is personal interest in the occult, and inheritance and money of other people that I live off.
You guys aren't even supposed to use your own chart to defend a certain system. Chris said as much in another talk where he outlines 12 reasons.
The Whole Signs pushes my Sun above the horizon, which on 11 April, at 20:30, in Central Europe, is simply impossible as the Sun sets earlier than that. I cannot accept any system that does not show my chart as nocturnal.
@@firemonkey2395 Above/below the horizon is determined by the ASC/DSC axis. In the Whole Sign system, a planet in the 1st or 7th Place can be either above or below the horizon. In other words, having the Sun 5 degrees Cancer and the ASC 15 degrees Cancer means that while the Sun is in the 1st Place (Whole Sign) it is above the horizon, since the ASC is 15 Cancer. The chart is diurnal. On the other hand, the Sun at 25 Cancer, while still in the 1st Place, it is below the ASC, thus the chart is still nocturnal. This means that a planet in the 1st or 7th Place can be either above or below the horizon, depending on the exact degree of the ASC/DSC axis.
Thank you for this! You're the only one I've seen break down the 10th house
I am learning astrology and whole signs make so much more sense to me both doing my charts and others. Thank you for your videos! Gonna try to save up to do your course ❤😊
Hi Chris! After years of frustration over the different house systems, it was finally clear to me with transiting Saturn in my 4th house that the whole sign house systems makes the most sense. It also eliminates intercepted houses which is just fine with me as that has always adversely affected my self concept and I didn’t really need more of that on top of what I was already dealing with! I still glance at Placidus, but am now pretty happy with the WS system. Thanks for this video!
Thank you so much for this. While learning about this system I had no real attachment either way. I checked out my chart after and this pushes my Scorpio stellium into the 9th house, so I'm convinced!
I like equal house which goes by the degree of the ascendant.
So glad to know this 😇 May I know which software you use?
Very interesting observation by fitting transit to learn if the Whole Houses system works well than the Placidus. Thanks for sharing ur wisdom.
Interesting and well presented info on Whole Sign Houses.
Thank you! I live in Sweden where most popular housesystems divide the chart in unbalanced ways during some of the seasons. This is very useful. Looking forward to test it on transits. ☺
Thank you for posting, this was Extremely helpful for this Western Astrological Student; owner of Kepler Software. I've found Whole System describes more correctly when viewing the charts of family and myself. next descriptions that look to apply would be Equal House. Placidus catches about half descriptions to planets in natal charts, with some very clear misses. Of course my studies are young, much to observe with learning this discipline.
Adding that bit about the IC importing 4th house significations into whatever house it falls in makes it all make sense. I have my moon and sun in Gemini in the 5th whole sign house as well as the IC. In Placidus they're split between the 3rd and 4th, so I wasn't sure that WHS made sense until you said that bit about the IC - then it falls into place.
It’s the most accurate in my experiences. Thank you for the video.
I chose whole signs to read my first birth chart (it’s my dad’s). I started making notes today. Whole signs are a lot easier to work with.
Thank you.. because of you I shifted to whole houses bcos it makes more sense to me somehow. I have 4 planets in 12th which are now in 1st and 2 planets in 2nd which are now in 3rd and finally I feel it resonates with me. I was so lost earlier.
Me too! It is almost as if the porphyry system was all about my conditioning !
All of my houses are split in the middle and it always confused me so much! Thank you for the explanation!
Whole sign never made any sense to mee... but thank you for the video, it was interesting...placidus works fine with me, but I'm happy the whole system works for you...in other words use what ever works for you (not throwing shade on anyone)...
I’m with you!
Love these videos!
My stacked 12th house and in scorpio became a stacked first house (asc, sun, mars and pluto). It’s very interesting.
I’m now working with my whole sign chart but it switches my Saturn from the 6th house placidus to the 7th house. Based on the events that took place during my last Saturn return the 6th house placement makes more sense to me. My mom fell ill during my second Saturn return and she steadily declined. It was a very dark time in my life and I see that more of sixth house occurrence. But I’m very new to astrology and maybe I’m misinterpreting. I totally enjoy listening to your podcasts and think it’s wonderful that you’re making all this information available to us.
I believe the 6th house is Your health. Using derived houses, your mother's health would be the 6th house from the 10th (traditional house of mother), so that would be your 3rd house. You can look for transits to your 3rd house and it's ruler. Try using the whole sign houses and see if there was activity there.
This simple thing is what made the whole system click for me. It's the only thing that makes sense if you think back millennia to the type of observation people did. thank you
I prefer using Whole Sign for houses with Campanus for house cusps.
I started with Placidus, them moved to Equal and now I`m studying the Whole Signs. 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you so much for doing these videos. I recently picked up your "Hellenistic Astrology" book and it's wonderful. I'm saving up to purchase your course from your website :) I'm super excited!
the whole sign house system its the only one that puts my moon in 12th and sun in 9th - and I really resonate more with this relocation.
My nodes switch houses when I use this system and I find this interesting. New to astrology so I still need to figure out which system is best...
Great content as always
Thank you for the explanation, Chris. What is your opinion regarding the use of the houses cusps in this system related to the calculation of some lots (such as the Lot of Death, calculated using the cusp of the 8th house)? I've read an article of Robert Hand, but he is not clear about it either.
This has made me understand my chart in a whole different way, I could actually cry 🥲
Love whole sign so much cleaner
Sounds like OCD
7:12 - so this is intersting for me. A few days ago, I decided to look at the way the Moon is moving this month in both Whole Sign and Placidus. I know it's fast moving and a "lighter touch" but it seemed like a good start. My AC is 24 degrees Aquarius, so moving from Placidus to Whole sign is an effective "rewind" of all of my houses along the chart. Watching the slower-moving planets is an even better idea, though! Overall, it's been frustrating for me to find any convincing arguments for why people on EITHER side seem to work with the house system they do (most people say they've just always done it that way), so this is great, Chris- thanks for the info!
I went ahead and listened to the longer version of this episode, skimming through the short.. I stated in a previous comment I technically use 2 house systems.
My preferred way of reading a chart is by sign in house which falls into the whole sign system especially with my own because nothing really moves. My preferred angle is less emphasis on the planets and more on signs, where they are, and the condition of those signs related to rulership. However, I don’t get into the true vs mean node debates because it doesn’t move in my own either. I may just have a natal chart with only reading others charts with similar layouts. That could be why always “yeah, but..” with the debate. It wasn’t until listening again where I started wondering if I just in general used two separate systems coincidentally just by doing it right away.
Using Koch, which is my preferred, is more slight differentiation and more personality internal/projection where houses in terms of whole sign describe conditions of the sign sign interplay. However, and this is where I can be a headache, as time moved on more bodies were discovered where the early shake ups in systems could be trying to work in an incomplete system where these changes/deviations up to calculations of hypothetical planets means to not be too attached while also considering what was said that the rise of Christianity (among other things like lack of education) caused significant damage in the long term with astrology that it’s a little messy up to this point. Ancient findings mixing with modern can help bridge those gaps to find better methods. My criticism of jungians that I rarely speak is what can turn me off is I find it odd it’s so focused on individuation where jungians are almost exactly the same as Jung; as if there’s a predetermined outcome up to vocabulary. Not referring to individuality, it’s just peculiar sometimes when you can’t differentiate the differentiated even with post jungians. Tarnas discusses that, so I’m not bulking some within that observation. (If I say I have a gripe it’s usually that).
My favorite brain toot is not realizing Elysian Fields is directly linked to the Pluto myth so when I tried to tone down my mood to alter my musical tastes listing to Elysian Fields then being surprised it’s relaxing “Pluto music”; I’m in no way meaning to give a seemingly snobby-ish comment but I will say if you look at my chart mixed with whole sign layered over with Koch I may have a 1st house expression of unintentional virgo/libra snootiness (lol) which is how I end up reading two house systems overlayed. As it, it puts extra emphasis on common traits. Anyways, I getting familiar with Pluto mythology I realized a song from Elysian Fields called Black Acres is about Pluto and Persephone which I had no idea, and I’m sure whomever used the song in a commercial for a coffee maker had no idea either. I’m wondering if I simply just learned whole sign houses by accident and simply (without thinking) merged it with Koch. I’ll never know.
Check out the degrees Episode again, and not sure what I’ll bounce to after that.
(Longer episodes are better)
I love the signed option for that large community AND it is an unhappy visual distraction for me so please Always Do Link to the originals.
Thank you so much 🌻
Thank you so much for clarifying this Chris I am fairly new to astrology and have always been overwhelmed by all the different house systems. Up until now I've been mostly focusing on placidus but whole sign houses just seemed to make more sense to me logistically. My ascendant is at a very late degree in Gemini so this house system would switch a lot of things up for me. I'm going to test this out and see if whole sign houses work better for me.
Let us all know here how you get on I'm interested
I feel like I've just really learned how to interpret charts and then someone told me about whole sign houses. I just checked mine. It moves my Venus from fifth house to sixth. My Jupiter goes from the 12th house to the 1st. Midheaven is moved to the ninth house. And instead of Virgo in the third house I become Libra. Interesting. I will have to check this out.
If we look out on the heavens there are no distinct lines separating the quadrants of the sky. The different House systems seemed frustrating to me until I decided maybe it is more the region than the House. For example, my moon is in the 8th, in Placidus the 7th. I can definitely see both. I think it is helpful for me to interpret both. I work with private clients and my work is related to the subconscious, so it feels more accurate that my moon is in that region, rather than a separate house. Transits to my AC definitely were accurate and it felt much more like they came out of the 12th and into the 1st...but maybe that was my astrological belief at the time?
Great work....
Hi Chris, I have no words to express my gratitude for all your work! =)
*
Question:* Let's say that a planet is on the end of a house (28º). On Whole Sign House System, can we consider this planet affecting the next house as well? Or only the house where the planet is in?
Thanks again!!!
It stays in the house its in. It'll only cross over when at 0degrees
Me too!!! Thanks Chris. When you will come to Hamburg?😊
Hopefully someday! I've always wanted to visit Germany.
As i have only planets in 0-15° and my asc at about 12°, there's a huge shift using one house system or another.
Same here....my ASC is 15 degree Scorpio. Whole sign moves my Sun into the 4th house vs 3rd house in equal or Placidus. Given I'm a motivational speaker and writer whole sign doesn't work for my chart
Great video - super clear! I wonder, do you interpret aspects to house cusps using the whole sign house system... that is, do you consider aspects around the 0° mark, or something else? Thank you for suggesting a way to experiment with transits and ingresses!
Yeah, that is what I don’t understand either. Is the ascendant at 0 degrees?
Me too!
In my case... with whole signs, my MC falls into the 12th... so my 10th house with Saturn and Maercury signification falls into 12th... describing career heavily influenced by the 12th?
And then there's the issue of the EP marking the first house in polar regions, or when you have people born beyond 45 or 60 degrees latitude. Sometimes this point is called the equatorial ascendant.
Have you explored that for the marker of the first whole sign house?
My Asc is at 29:10 Aries.
All the other cusps fall either at the very end of the signs or at the very beginning of the next sign.
When I look at my chart, it feels easier to identify Taurus as the First House and so on and so forth.
The Whole Sign Houses System feels counter-intuitive in this case..
Thank you!!!
Although a popular approach throughout history is it as precise as modern calculations?
Thank you
Amazing video (as always!). May I ask the following: I calculated my practice chart using the "Whole house" system and then also the "Whole (Aries=1)" system. In both charts the Chiron was somewhere completely else. Now I am confused, since I'm only a beginner. Can someone please help me? Which one is more accurate? "Whole house" or "Whole (Aries=1)"? Thank you so much!
I find people use whole sign because it’s easier and laziness not because it’s more accurate. The fact it’s older is a reason to give it more scrutiny not less. There have been thousands of astrological corrections in astronomy since that system was founded.
Or maybe that whole sign houses recognizes the divination aspect of astrology and not the “scientific” aspect.
@@josephine3122 Divination is scientific, its based on cause and effect, past moments created the present moment, and the present moment creates future moments. There would also be no reason why any other house system does not recognise that principle.
I still didn't chose what house system I want to use but I can say that wsh makes more sence to me. The luminaries only rule one house and the 5 planets rule two houses everytime. And the houses are in aspect. The benefic houses are always in aspect with the Asc while the malefic houses are always in aversion to the Asc.
All systems work. It's like changing the lens on a microscope to look deeper and/or for other information from a chart.
Informative. Thanks Brennan.
Do you use Campanus?
I use whole sign houses.
Ok thanks. I'm not clear about the difference..
Here's a way to use both different systems together. Each has a usage: ua-cam.com/video/9vIBwCOGXqs/v-deo.html
Plz suggest books on whole sign houses...
7:30 when chiron entered Aries i had a crisis of pain and my mom sickness increased, that night we felt like shit
I have read that whole sign is better at predicting events, whereas Placidus is better at displaying personality traits. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I can't decide yet if there is some truth to that, or if people just think it is true because modern psychological astrology that everyone starts with primarily uses Placidus. So that may be coloring everyone's perception of Placidus houses. That being said, I'm not completely closed to that as a possible solution, but I would just want to make sure that that isn't creating a sort of false positive in people's heads somehow.
The Astrology Podcast - thanks! I love your show and listen to the podcasts every day 🙂
How do you prioritize the MC vs the 10th house as the Midheaven in electional astrology? Like if you line Jupiter up to the MC angle and it falls in the whole sign 9th house and thus cadent (ie bad), but adjusting it to fall into the 10th makes you lose the trine to the ascendant and 1st house tenants, what would be best practice? Quadrant housing seems to make this a lot easier.
We usually prioritize the whole sign house placements at first, by trying to put benefics there and avoiding putting malefics there, and then we tighten that up by using the degrees of the angles to either emphasize or mitigate certain placements. Jupiter in the 9th sign but on the degree of the MC would actually be pretty active, and essentially angular.
@@TheAstrologyPodcast Thanks so much for clarifying!
I'm a beginner, and trying to understand the houses. What are the houses physically? The signs correspond to the constellations right? I was just curious if the houses represent a spot in space or something like that?
They talk about houses for about 5 hours in another video
😅 I was just wondering if you would share with us whether or not you have a lot of Aquarius energy in your chart??😊
How does this apply when youre on the cusp, say scorpio rising at 27 degrees. My natal houses align with a sag rising. My scorpio house is in my 12th house and not my first.
How is the MC defined? You didn’t define it and explain why it can float around the top of chart
Im confused here because im being told to use whole sign houses and and when i mention that my houses are in a certain sign im being told that’s not a whole sign house
I just started watching this, so maybe you get deeper into it… But I wonder, was the whole sign house system lost, or fell out of favor, when people started more seriously documenting birth times? Because it seems Placidus really only works if you know the birth time or have a “time” to start with. I still think the whole sign system is most explanatory for natal charts, while Placidus is still relevant as well, if you know your birth time. But having a time or using Placidus is a little more useful to transits, horary astrology, predictive stuff or anything ongoing or in the future-but is still natally relevant, of course, if you know your time of birth. Is that right?
so essentially the first house begins at 1 degree of whatever sign the ascendant occupies.
Yes
I was born with that configuration, a chart that begins at 1 degree Leo. The only thing that changes for me with whole sign house system is Uranus moves from the 11th house to the 12th...at 1degree. So I'm thinking since its now on the cusp that this might be influenced by both houses. Safe assumption? BTW. Great podcasts.
With the planet in signs. Do they stay in the signs? I have a late Libra rising and several Scorpio planets in the 1st house. Does this house system change these?
In whole sign house system , your scorpio planets would be in the second house if you are a libra rising :)
@@Jack8888. so the sun and Mercury in Libra in the 12th house are in the 1st house?
Whole house has been pretty constant in the Indian system, not sure why the west lost it - would be curious to hear how that happened and the research there since your are so definite they invented it. Here is a video with some insight into how this tradition looks at whole house system in conjunction with other house systems: ua-cam.com/video/9vIBwCOGXqs/v-deo.html
I wrote a whole chapter about that issue in my book.
Intense
Are there any good books on Whole House Systems?
I’ve just tried whole house system for my birth chart and Mars went from 12th to 1st house. I did research and it’s definitely not me! I’ll be sticking to placidus system.
This is exactly the type of comment I would expect a Mars in the 1st house person to write 😂
🤣😳🤔 I’ll do more research 🙄🤣🤣
@@TheAstrologyPodcast 🤣🤣🤣
Nice Loebs :)
I relate with whole sign too but whole sign in sideral or tropical 🤔🤔? This is what confuse me
I would argue tropical, for reasons I talk about in my book, although certainly it is a bit complicated.
The Rising Energy is the Rising Energy. Whole house describes the vibration one was born under. Our ascendant is not born under 2 sign energies. We are born under one. There is a separation of the frequencies for a reason. The whole house system is supreme. I'm a Spiritual Coach, when you need encouragement, I'm your girl. Momma Miki XoXo
I love you😘 people dont understand whole signs is the truth and only truth two signs cannot be in one house that dont make sense even when you think about it
When all your house are split ( almost evenly) between 2 signs, doesn’t that mean something? Don’t Decans count ????
OK dear Chris, so I will contact you via mail.
Why are all of my whole sign houses sitting at zero degrees?? Except ascendant and midheaven
Ive been studying astrology for 10 years and l never heard of this !!!
Your crazy then i been heard this do more studying my friend whole signs is the truth
The GreatOne crazy? Lol misinformed at worst. Usually whole sign system starts at ascendant, not in the middle of the sign.
@@jasoneaton4520 my brother the ascendant is in the middle of a sign sometimes it depends on the time of day your ascendant can be in the middle of leo that means every planet in the sign of leo is the first house cancer would be your twelve and virgo your 2nd and so on its all correct when dealing with the signs and houses if you ever see your chart in a whole signs system it will be like looking directly into the sky the day you were born I promise you cause ive did it using charts like today in whole signs if a planet is before your ascendant in a chart which would be your 1st 12th 11th 10th 9th 8th and 7th house that means the planet was visible in the sky at birth if a blanet is after your ascendant in a chart which is the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th and some parts of the 7th house depending on where in the house your planet is located with the descendant those planets were not visible in the sky at your birth
If your sun is in the 8th house does this make you a scorpio ? Thank you for these podcasts I have learnt so much from listening to this valuable information especially the house system - through listening to your podcasts I discovered my sun sign is in the 8th house which made me realise that there is so much more to learn about astrology and that some placements are stronger than others I think
Hello. Maybe you already know since your comment is old tho.
The Sun Moon and Planets are in the signs. The houses they are located in don't change that. If the Moon is in Leo, dosent matter what house the Moon is, the second the sixth, the Moon is still in Leo. The sign show how the Moon works, the house only shows the topics associated with it.
If Chris Brennan uses whole sign houses then I use whole sign houses
Is your rising sign your sun sign?
One of the reasonings you find specious is when a person says that one house system makes more sense to them is when they use their own chart as an example, yet it seems to be ok reasoning if they are praising Whole House system. I find this inconsistency throughout the 12 reasons you give in the other talk. One of the reasons is "people did this first" but then one of your criticisms is "people defend their house system by saying "so and so did this' ... which is the same reasoning. So I'm having to sort out all these fallacies before I make my decision. Also some of your explanations , I just don't understand or see how it's different from another system. The houses are based on the signs. That's why there are 12, whether it starts at a 0 degree, or 22 degree.
There have been some proposals for using eight-fold or four-fold divisions of the houses in some early traditions, and so that is why I made the point about this being the reason why there ended up being twelve, because they were originally meant to coincide with the signs.
Also, house division can be done by Time or Space. One's choice of house division can only be discovered by experimentation. You have to take the charts of people whose lives are well documented and track events using the system.
Interesting. Placidus seems to give the right result for Marilyn monroe’s venus while whole makes her venus seem relatively unimportant
WHOLE sign house system switch my planets in other houses and it doesnt make sense.
It makes sense if you track the events in your life by time. A planet's energy changes as its moves through the zodiac. Whole sign House emphasise that.
The first time it doesn't. But if you dig deep all the events. It did make sense. At least for me.
Out of the whole house system my Ascendant is Aries. With the Whole house system it moves to Pisces, which makes soooooooooo much more sense for me!!!
ur placements does not change when using the house system unless you’re using like vedic
Im Astrologer from india
Not to sound rude blunt or insensitive BUT IS WHOLE SIGN MORE ACCURATE THAN PLACIDUS YES OR NO !!!!!! I DONT WANT CONFUSION JUST CLARITY !!!! THANKS !!!!!
Yes
@@AlexJohnson-rk5qe Thanks
I still use Placidus; due to sign on 5th house always matching children’s signs. But I use my eye to know when planets move into a new sign and talk to that also. It mostly only affects late degrees of the rising.
Whole sign is no good. My ascendant falls towards the end of a sign so it shifts everything drastically.
Why does that make it no good? He said it doesn’t matter if it’s at the later degrees, it is still just as much your first house. I think it would be interesting to explore and entertain this different chart.
So! That doesn’t mean whole sign is no good. Placidus is junky & messy & ppl only go with it bcus its the first default system they see & run with it w/o questioning at all
@@AlexJohnson-rk5qe yeah, that’s what happened with me. It was the default so I just went with it. After years of Placidus and now exploring Whole Sign, it is so refreshing, so much more simple and tidy. In Placidus, my North Node is in the 12th and in Whole Sign it is in the 1st, which is a pretty big difference haha. I realised that I resonated more with South Node in 7th, which is another reason I am taking Whole Sign more seriously now.
@@evedotcom exactly. Ppl dont realize that the very reason why we even have 12 houses is bc we have 12 signs. The borders of the signs is what divides up the houses everything else is sensitive points like the asc mc etc
@@AlexJohnson-rk5qe Equal house isn't messy.
This vid just buffers to shit what gives
My sun is in my 4th house using Astro Gold with whole sign house system, acording to your diagram the house tgere the sun is at the time of birth should be 1st. Abit comfused or my setings might be wrong, could anyone help to clarofy this, with love out of lush forest in france 🏕